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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast, intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. I'm Alan Seales.

[0:11] Jillian Hockman: I'm Gillian Hockman. And this episode is with Brandon Uranowitz, who is currently in Burn This on Broadway, which I guess it's not, I was gonna say ironically, but it's not ironically, his first play, because he's done musicals his entire career until this point.

[0:28] Alan Seales: Yeah, even though he trained for plays and drama. That doesn't seem like an uncommon thing. Actually, there's a lot of people who really come out of these great conservatories with some classical training, and then they just do like weird, crazy musicals for years and years and years. Whatever pays the bill. I, part of what I really loved about the interview with him is, is like, we got deep into the story, like his coming out story and being a gay Jew in New Jersey. And kind of like a, I won't say shame, but sort of the internal struggle he had when, I don't want to spoil the coming out story, but he tells it when his parents sort of forced his hand, but then he lied about it and then convinced them that he wasn't gay. Then he was relieved and upset all at the same time. Welcome to being a Jew in New York. It's a very cultural Northeast American thing.

[1:29] Jillian Hockman: Yeah. But yeah, that's something that I'm sure many a person has had some sort of experience with when they come from this world. And he said, he said something else too, that really resonates with me. That now in Burn This, it's the first, he's a gay man. And now in Burn This, he's the first openly gay character he's gotten to play as a gay man in real life. And he made the point, it's like, why did it take so long to get there? There are just not enough, not enough characters who are gay, who are the central focus of a storyline where being gay is not the focus of the story. It's always been that thing that makes you different.

[2:10] Alan Seales: Well, starting to become not that different anymore.

[2:17] Jillian Hockman: Yeah, I guess it probably never was that different. It's just now that we're able to talk about it.

[2:21] Alan Seales: Exactly. That everyone is just, yeah, we see it everywhere. We notice it and it shouldn't be a thing anymore.

[2:24] Jillian Hockman: I totally agree with him. It just should just be, that's part of who people are. 2019, not a thing.

[2:30] Alan Seales: All right, everybody, please enjoy this episode here with Brandon Uranowitz.

[2:43] Alan Seales: He's a two-time Tony nominated actor best known for his roles as Adam in An American in Paris and Mendel in the 2016 Broadway revival of Falsettos. Both roles resulted in his Tony nominations and also got a Drama Desk Award nomination for Falsettos with credits that also include The Prince of Broadway and the touring production of Rent. He's most recently been in The Band's Visit on Broadway and has appeared in TV productions, including The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Dietland, Blue Bloods and Inside Amy Schumer. He is about to open Burn This on Broadway. Brandon Uranowitz, welcome to the podcast.

[3:11] Brandon Uranowitz: Thank you for having me. Hello, hello.

[3:17] Alan Seales: So let's start where we normally start on this podcast and let's go back to your very, your humble roots, your humble beginnings. Tell me where you grew up.

[3:26] Brandon Uranowitz: I grew up in West Orange, New Jersey, a little closeted gay Jewish boy who wasn't very good at sports and very uncoordinated. And my parents took me to see Peter Pan when I was three. And that sort of sparked this whole passion for theater and storytelling. I mean, apparently my mom had never seen my face look like that before. And that's when she knew when I was watching them fly around the theater. I guess. I don't know. I still have yet to fly in a theater. So I'm still just like hoping and praying one day that'll happen.

[4:12] Alan Seales: Do you want to be Wendy or Peter?

[4:21] Brandon Uranowitz: Wendy. Oh, of course. Yes, yes. Obviously Wendy. So then from there, three-year-old Brandon goes back and says, I want to do this or what happened after that?

[4:26] Brandon Uranowitz: I didn't necessarily vocalize that, but I think my parents saw something in me and could see my lack of athletic skills and decided to put me in some extracurricular theater schools, namely Performers Theater Workshop in Livingston, New Jersey. And for a good portion of my childhood, probably from the age of six to 17, I was at PTW three times a week. Doing private voice lessons, song interpretation class, acting class, obviously jazz and tap.

[5:15] Alan Seales: So being uncoordinated, you were still doing jazz and tap?

[5:21] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, I managed to somehow be a somewhat decent dancer, mover, somewhat decent mover. Those skills have since waned a bit. I haven't really worked on that brain muscle in a while, so picking up choreography is not my forte.

[5:41] Alan Seales: That's interesting, though, because An American in Paris, heavy dancing, heavy ballet.

[5:47] Brandon Uranowitz: For everybody but me.

[5:47] Alan Seales: Yeah?

[5:54] Brandon Uranowitz: My character had a war injury, so I was limping around the stage, except for a nice fantasy tap number, which, yeah, I can tap dance. I can tap dance.

[6:01] Alan Seales: That's funny. That's funny. So six until when you were saying you were performing?

[6:05] Brandon Uranowitz: Like 17.

[6:05] Alan Seales: 17, okay. And because I grew up right outside New York City and right near Paper Mill Playhouse, I somehow hoodwinked my family into letting me try it professionally, and I did. I did Evita at Paper Mill when I was nine. I turned 10, and then I did a Christmas Carol at Madison Square Garden, and then I went and I played the little boy in the world premiere of Ragtime in Toronto.

[6:41] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, wow. When I was 11, yeah.

[6:41] Alan Seales: So you had all the child credits in there.

[6:48] Brandon Uranowitz: I did. And then, I mean, if you really want to get deep and dive in here, I was playing a little boy in Toronto, and it's a show about immigrants and African Americans and white Anglo-Saxon Protestants living in America and those race relations. And there was a little Jewish boy playing this little waspy boy, and they were bleaching my hair and my eyebrows every two weeks.

[7:21] Alan Seales: No kidding.

[7:22] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. And I don't know. I think it was just weird for them maybe to have someone named Brandon Uranowitz playing the little waspy boy, and they let me go before they came to Broadway. So that sort of thickened my skin at a young age and prepared me a little bit for the inevitable rejection that you face on a daily basis in this industry.

[7:49] Alan Seales: Yeah, so I worked professionally for a little bit. I came back and did this thing called Broadway Kids, which was like an off-Broadway skit, and we recorded a couple of albums. And then I got bar mitzvahed and sort of realized that I didn't have a core group of friends really at that time. I was constantly leaving school to audition, and I was not at school for big swathes of time rehearsing or doing a show. And it was lonely a little bit for me as a kid. And so I stopped for a while and just went and finished middle school and went to high school.

[8:32] Brandon Uranowitz: And I knew I still wanted to perform. I knew I still wanted to be an actor, but I needed to be a human and do normal human people things.

[8:46] Alan Seales: I've heard that from others who were performing a lot as children, that they just wanted to take a break and just be a kid for a while.

[9:01] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, and I think it was an important decision, and I'm very happy that I did it. Those are your formative developmental years where you learn basic social skills and how to relate to people. And being in the closet brought its own set of challenges. So I had enough to contend with, I guess.

[9:23] Alan Seales: Well, yeah, I want to get into your coming out story. We're going to do it in a second. I saw an episode of Side by Side with Susan Blackwell. I think it was at Stephanie J. Block's house.

[9:35] Brandon Uranowitz: It sure was.

[9:37] Alan Seales: Where you told your coming out story, which was quite funny.

[9:40] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, we'll get into it. It's not actually my coming out story. It's my almost coming out story.

[9:46] Alan Seales: Okay, well, let's just tell the story. Just tell the story.

[9:49] Brandon Uranowitz: Are you sure?

[9:49] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah, because we'll hold onto that. We'll get there.

[9:54] Brandon Uranowitz: We'll put a pin in it.

[9:54] Alan Seales: Put a pin in that. I want to ask about your parents, though. How traditionally Jewish are they, or were they?

[10:03] Brandon Uranowitz: Because what I'm thinking, they seemed obviously very supportive. And they were like, we're going to give our child everything he wants, and let him be this child star, and let him audition, and take him out of school. And that doesn't necessarily jive with like...

[10:16] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, I did not grow up in a religious, kosher household. We did go to... I mean, I went to Hebrew school every Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday, even though I tried with all of my might to get out of it every single time. And we went to like a conservative Jewish temple on high holidays, and things like that. And we celebrated Passover, and we had a Seder, and Rosh Hashanah. But it never really sort of permeated into our daily lives. I think it was more about... My mom grew up in a kosher household, and my dad's parents went to temple. And I think it was just them sort of holding on to tradition. And I mean, that's a huge part of Jewish culture, is the tradition.

[11:16] Alan Seales: Is the traditions that they withhold. Not withhold, that they keep.

[11:27] Brandon Uranowitz: Withstand?

[11:30] Alan Seales: Yeah, I can't think of the word.

[11:33] Brandon Uranowitz: I know what you're trying to say.

[11:33] Alan Seales: Yeah, it was more about the tradition. And they wanted me to get bar mitzvahed, and they wanted my sister to get bar mitzvahed. But it was never really about the religion of it, and the teachings of the Bible and the Torah. It was more about the community that is sort of inherent in Jewish tradition. I mean, we were very much like New York, New Jersey Jews.

[12:06] Brandon Uranowitz: Right.

[12:06] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah. And so I guess along with that, and that's leading into the Coming Out story was, were they necessarily pro-LGBT sort of initiatives, or did they not care?

[12:22] Brandon Uranowitz: They were sort of ambivalent, I guess. I guess going along with tradition and growing up in New Jersey, and I went to a private school. I think for my parents, it wasn't about being gay, or that being gay is necessarily a bad thing, or an evil thing, or a disgusting life choice, or something. I think more for them, it was just the fear of being different.

[13:37] Brandon Uranowitz: New York City to see a show, which we did all the time. And there was, you know, a gay couple holding hands or kissing on the street. I don't even think my dad was conscious of it or aware of it because he could not be more supportive of me now and supportive of LGBTQ rights. And I just, you know, I think I would see him wince and I would see him sneer a little bit only because it was different and novel for him, right? And I think it scared him. And I think a lot of parents of gay kids come act out of fear more than anything, and I don't think there's malice in their hearts necessarily. I just think it's a fear-based reaction, right? It's reactionary and fear-based, fight-or-flight almost.

[14:31] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's interesting. So get into your coming-out story then because I want to know how they reacted.

[14:40] Brandon Uranowitz: Okay. Yeah. All right, so I mean, I'm going to just assume that like many of your listeners have probably heard this story, so like apologies in advance if you know what's coming and like if you know my zingers in this story, but for those who don't know, when I was a teenager, the internet was like this new, wonderful, mysterious thing.

[15:02] Alan Seales: How old are you now at this point?

[15:06] Brandon Uranowitz: Yes, uh, like 13, 14, like today right here right now. Yeah, 32.

[15:13] Alan Seales: Okay. Yeah, so you're younger than me.

[15:18] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, so I had a modem. Okay. Yeah. Yes, no, so we had a modem, okay, and a family computer. Yes, you know, yes, and we all shared it and it was all very new. Nobody knew how to use this thing. Your prodigy, of course, I had a... and my first screen name on prodigy was BagelsForYou.

[15:40] Alan Seales: Good night and see ya.

[15:47] Brandon Uranowitz: Such a nerd. So the internet was this new thing. We had this new giant machine in the house that nobody really knew how to use, but there was all this cool, interesting stuff you could find on it. If you went on to this weird thing called Internet Explorer, you could explore this vast, mysterious world that exists in the ether somewhere. And so at this point, you know, my hormones are developing. I'm starting to have feelings and I'm realizing that they're not normal, that everybody's sort of expecting me to. And like at this point, I am like kissing girls and I'm like canoodling with girls because that's what I was supposed to do. That's like what humans do, I guess, but it's never... that's the behavior modeled, right? Everywhere you go, that's what's being advertised to you on TV and magazines, on buses and, you know, everywhere, and like that's my parents and, you know.

[16:56] But it never felt natural to me. I was like, this is not... I don't know what I... I mean, I guess this is nice. I like cuddling up with someone, but like I don't really feel the impulse to do this, but I guess I'll continue. But here's this internet thing and oh, there are some pictures that make me feel things and oh, there are some videos that I've stumbled upon and oh, those make me feel things that I don't feel when I'm with girls. What is that? And then I, you know, so I like continued to explore that very late at night when my parents are sleeping or, you know, a weekend afternoon when they're at the mall. You know, I would go to the family computer and explore these feelings.

[17:51] Brandon Uranowitz: And I thought because, you know, I mean, I feel like this is true today also that, I mean, this will always be true, that like the younger generation is always a little more savvy with the evolution of technology. Of course. So I knew at that point that like you always delete your browser history, right? Like that's right. That's what you do. I don't know how I knew that. I mean, one of my best friends, Michael, at the time was like very, very into computers and I guess I probably like learned from him that that's a thing that you do. And so I was very diligent about deleting my browser history.

[18:34] Brandon Uranowitz: And one day, I'm in eighth grade, and this is where some people will know where this story goes. I'm at my friend Nicole's house, who I met at PTW doing theater and dance, and we were choreographing a hip-hop dance because that's what we liked to do. And we also would like teach it to look younger kids. So I was at her house choreographing a hip-hop dance, and I get a call from my mother on my Nokia cell phone, and she sounds very... it sounds very urgent, very dire, and there's darkness in her voice. And she's like, "Where are you? You need to come home right now." And I was like, "Is everything okay?" She's like, "Yes, it's fine. You just need to come home now." I was like, "Okay." I felt like Nicole and I finished choreographing, and I was like, "I guess I have to go home," so she drove me home.

And I walk into the house, and my mom is standing in complete darkness in the kitchen with this like neon light just sort of like backlighting her. And it's very creepy and scary. She looks terrifying.

[19:51] Brandon Uranowitz: And I walk in and I'm like, "What's up?" and she like steps out of the shadows like a murderer and she's like, "Follow me. We need to talk about something." And she leads me down into the like family whatever office, which was like not really... it was like the mud room to the computer. And in complete anger and like disgust, she's... she starts like very rapid-fire opening all of these files, and they link to internet sites of like pretty hardcore porn. Yeah, gay porn. Yeah, and I'm completely caught off guard. And my, again, like talk about fight-or-flight, like my immediate reaction is to just pretend that I have no clue what this is and on top of that pretend like I'm disgusted by it because I can't let her know that this is like mine.

So I'm just standing there being like, "You know, that's so disgusting. That's so gross. Like stop showing this to me. Why are you doing this to me?" And then she like... and then like my dad came down and like just as under... it was like so... just as like tighty-whities, and he was like, "Brandon, like if it's yours, we can deal with it. Like let's talk about it." And like... and they just like keep showing. And then all of a sudden, and like obviously it's mine. Like I can also just like in my brain, obviously, I've cataloged all of this. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that was like last Thursday. Like that was Sunday. Like I know." And then like out of like... like I'm like a miracle, I guess it wasn't really a miracle because this probably would have like just solved a lot of issues for the next couple of years, but out of nowhere, they opened this other file that was like some weird fax document thing that like nobody recognized.

And so like immediately I'm like, "Oh, well, we're obviously being hacked. Like someone hacked into our computer and is just like looking at porn on it on a remote computer to look at porn." Correct? Makes total sense, right? Yeah, they believed me though. Like they bought it.

[22:08] Brandon Uranowitz: Wow, they bought it. And but like that's not how computers work. That's not how it works. These are files that were saved on the hard drive of it. So basically we found out that like, or I found out what happened was the computer was acting really slowly, and my dad's brother Seymour was very computer savvy. Like he was... I think he taught like computer science or something out in Minnesota. And they called him to be like, "Our computer's acting really slowly. We don't know what's up. How do we fix it?" And he was like, "Well, have you deleted your temporary internet files?" And that's when they found this just like plethora of gay porn sites because I guess, you know, at that time, I don't know if it's still true.

I don't know how... and I use a Mac now, so I don't know, but like it would save... it would log your images. Yeah, not just images, like the web, the link. Oh, yeah, yeah, the URLs. Oh, so they went in, they went in manually and to go delete those. Oh, man. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Just like thousands. Oh, of course, of course. But they believed me that we were hacked, and like so I didn't... I almost had to come out, but like then they started apologizing. Like my mom started crying. Like she just felt so terrible that they had accused me of something I had very much done.

[23:28] Alan Seales: Well, how did that feel?

[23:33] Brandon Uranowitz: It was weird. That was... it was a weird experience because you're relieved they don't know, but you want them to know so badly.

[23:44] Brandon Uranowitz: Correct? Yeah, it was a weird dissonant experience for me because I was so relieved that I didn't have to deal with it then. And I guess at the time I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll never have to deal with it." Hmm, maybe... maybe I'll just live my life. I'll marry a woman. I'll have a family and I'll deal with these feelings on my own. At that point, I, you know, I didn't really have any reference point for gay relationships.

[24:21] Alan Seales: You didn't know any other gay people in your life?

[24:21] Brandon Uranowitz: Not really. I mean, I knew them from, you know, working in theater, like right, they were around, but there was no... there was no... there was no... there was no... it really... blasting imagery or again like reference point for gay love for me or relationships. So for me, it just felt like it was purely connected to and related to sex. So those are feelings I felt like I could deal with privately, but like love and relationships and partnership I could find with a woman. I mean, all of my friends were girls, you know what I mean? So I was like, "Oh, that's what will happen. That's how this will go." And then I went to college and I was like, "No, no."

[25:20] Alan Seales: Because it started affecting my work.

[25:24] Brandon Uranowitz: That's interesting that... I mean, I think even with, you know, as a straight teenager myself at, you know, I'm not a teenager anymore, but...

[25:31] Alan Seales: It is... look at...

[25:36] Brandon Uranowitz: No, I'm 38. I am almost in my 40s.

[25:44] Alan Seales: Look at day over 37.

[25:50] Brandon Uranowitz: Thank you. Thank you. My someone took me the other day to get my eyebrows waxed for the first time, so they look nice. Thank you.

[25:50] Alan Seales: Thank you. I very on fleek, as they say.

[25:55] Brandon Uranowitz: On fleek? Is that what the kids say?

[25:55] Alan Seales: That's what they say.

[25:55] Brandon Uranowitz: I think it's like about eyebrows.

[26:01] Alan Seales: I think that is a really... fleek came from... I couldn't... was about eyebrows.

[26:01] Brandon Uranowitz: Well, yours are on fleek.

[26:09] Alan Seales: Well, thank you. I now have to continue this trend because I think they look rather nice.

[26:09] Brandon Uranowitz: They do. Yes, what was I saying? Oh, yeah, so for me...

[26:13] Brandon Uranowitz: I remember at the same age, I was looking at porn on my computer, and my dad actually found it. He pulled me aside, and he said, just don't show your brother, because I was the older brother. He didn't care. He was probably proud. He was like, all right, cool, my boy's straight. But what was modeled for me, too, was all sex. Because on TV and cable, you don't have these big love stories. That's not what sells. It's like sex sells. Love doesn't sell a lot of times, at least to men. Especially to men. Rom-coms are not marketed to men. I think, just to comment on that in general, our society needs to get some more love modeled for our kids. For a society that's so predicated on partnership and families, you'd think that the element of love would guide it.

But really, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. It's getting better, particularly for the gay community, I think. It's on its way. I'm still waiting for that story, that film, that play, where a gay character's sexual orientation is not the central conflict of the story. Oh, shoot. Nick Offerman movie that just came out. Hearts Beat Loud. Go see that. Nick Offerman's daughter in the movie is a lesbian, and it's just there. It's not the central conflict. She has a girlfriend that comes in and out of scenes. Is she the main character? It's about Nick Offerman, really. I'm still waiting for that story where the gay character is the center of the film. I guess it's hard these days to not comment on it, but I'm still waiting for a film that centers around a gay character where the central conflict is something completely other.

What about Doctor Who? I don't really know Doctor Who. So, some of Doctor Who's companions have been gay, and that's just there. That's nice. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In the remake, not the original, obviously. Fair enough. Yeah. So, there's a couple out there, but to your point, I don't think there's been a big blockbuster movie central to the character. No. It's baby steps, and I'm happy with the steps we're taking. Love, Simon, and all of that. I mean, I'm very, very happy about that.

[29:01] Alan Seales: When did you actually come out, though? We never got there yet.

[29:04] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, yeah. I guess we haven't. I was still in the closet my freshman year of college, even though I was secretly hooking up with a boy. I was at NYU. I was in the Meisner studio, and all of year one at Meisner is all about discovering your inner emotional life and opening yourself up to revealing that emotional life on stage and accessing it on stage or on film and TV, like whatever, and just in scenes and in scene work. And I was completely closed off to it, and I was not thriving, really, in it because we weren't doing... At that point, I think I was a decent, good actor, but I could play characters. And when it came to personalizing things as Brandon, because it was all personal, that work, I was completely closed off and stunted, and I couldn't figure out why.

I started having really, really bad panic attacks. I ended up in the emergency room four times that year, thinking I was dying. And I was just spiraling because I just felt like a shell a little bit. I didn't have any access to anything inside of me because I was trying to break through titanium walls.

[31:00] Alan Seales: You were just trying to keep it out of your mind completely.

[31:01] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, well, right. I was just trying to do anything I could to maintain this lie, I guess. At this point, in your own head, did you know you were gay, or were you just trying to convince yourself you weren't? Like, were you trying to believe your own...

[31:13] Brandon Uranowitz: No, I knew. I knew. I mean, that's always a tough question, because I've always known. But denial is a very, very powerful thing, and a very manipulative thing. And I think I had manipulated myself into believing I was somebody else a little bit. Anyway, so I was contending with a lot of failure in my work, anxiety, and panic attacks in my life. And I sort of reached a fever pitch, and I started seeing a therapist, and I started taking anxiety medication. And slowly but surely, the mist started to clear a little bit, and everything became clear. And I realized what I had to do. So sophomore year of college is when I finally started telling the people closest to me in Meisner. I think they were sort of the first few people I told. My sister was... I think I told my sister... I think I actually told my sister on my 20th birthday. Yeah, or 19th birthday. I mean, 19th or 20th, sophomore, yeah.

[32:56] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, 19th or 20th birthday. Yeah. And then I told my mom, who was still surprised, but cool with it. She cried. I think she, again, sort of believed what I just said about denial being very powerful, and she had convinced herself that she would see me at the altar with a woman or something. I don't know, some weird old baby boomer traditional bullshit. But then she said to me, she's like, obviously, being gay is a huge part of who you are. That is a major part of the fiber of your being. And we love you as you are, and we don't want you to be anybody different. So if being straight means that you are different than you are, we don't want that. We want you as you. We love you as you. And it's been amazing. I have a boyfriend that I've been with for eight years, and they've accepted him as a son, and it's beautiful and wonderful and amazing, and they've been incredible. But it was touch and go there for a while.

[34:23] Alan Seales: When you told your dad, you said, Dad, I need you in your underwear right now.

[34:26] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, exactly. Actually, no, I mean, I never actually physically told my dad. I was like, Mom, you can tell Dad, I just can't. It's a lot.

[34:36] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah, that's really nice. I mean, that's as good of a story as anybody could hope for.

[34:41] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah.

[34:42] Alan Seales: Do you ever joke about the discovery of the porn on the computer? Did anybody talk about that?

[34:47] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, my God. With my family?

[34:48] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[34:52] Brandon Uranowitz: I think it still is a little bit of a sore spot for them, because I think they feel bad. I think they feel like they were not great parents in that moment. But I don't blame them. Parenting is fucking hard.

[35:07] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah.

[35:07] Brandon Uranowitz: And as much as I was contending with the social obstacles of being gay, they were dealing with the social obstacles of being parents and being protective of their kids. I don't blame them at all.

[35:28] Alan Seales: Is your sister older or younger?

[35:30] Brandon Uranowitz: Younger.

[35:30] Alan Seales: So do you look out for her? Does she look out for you at all?

[35:34] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, we both do. We're really close.

[35:36] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's good.

[35:37] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah.

[35:37] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, I really enjoyed that story. That was good.

[35:41] Brandon Uranowitz: I'm glad.

[35:42] Alan Seales: But how about we talk about some theater, huh?

[35:44] Brandon Uranowitz: Let's do it.

[35:45] Alan Seales: Since this is the theater podcast.

[35:46] Brandon Uranowitz: Sure, yeah. Let's talk about some theater.

[35:49] Alan Seales: Some theater. Yeah, so NYU, of course. And then what was your major when you graduated?

[35:55] Brandon Uranowitz: Drama.

[35:56] Alan Seales: Drama, yeah.

[35:57] Brandon Uranowitz: But I didn't really study musical theater at school. I was in Meisner for two years, then I went into classical for a year, which was Shakespeare. I think Wesley Taylor actually was telling me that at School of the Arts, where he went, he did a lot of drama, classical Shakespeare and all this stuff. And his first Broadway gig was, oh, crap, I'm blanking on this.

[36:20] Alan Seales: Rock of Ages.

[36:20] Brandon Uranowitz: Rock of Ages, right. Which is like a complete opposite of Shakespeare. But he was saying, like, the classical stuff really trains you.

[36:26] Brandon Uranowitz: It does. I mean, I think I'm so thankful that I stopped working as a kid so that I could go to high school and take a class called Modern Drama, where I learned about Sam Shepard. And, you know, August Wilson and Eugene O'Neill and Tennessee Williams. And like, I read the greats and fell in love with drama and theater and plays. Because that's what sort of inspired me to go to NYU and really focus on the acting. And I think it's a huge part of why I'm where I am now, is that I was able to really sink my teeth into the challenges of telling a story and playing actions and having relationships and being with your scene partner and connecting with them.

[37:29] Alan Seales: But most of your professional credits have been musicals.

[37:32] Brandon Uranowitz: Correct.

[37:32] Alan Seales: Yeah. So how did you make that transition?

[37:35] Brandon Uranowitz: I mean, you know, I did PTW. I mean, a lot of my training as a kid was in musical theater. I worked in musical theater as a kid. And like, funnily enough, when I was at NYU, I didn't do any musicals except for my final semester when I got cast in the main stage musical, which was this original musical called Only Children. And I was playing one of the leads and an agent came to it. And I mean, it was just sort of like weird, fateful things. An agent came and that's how I got my representation. They saw me in a musical. And as an actor, you sort of want as many possibilities. It's a numbers game, right? So you want as many possibilities as possible at your fingertips to try and book work. And so they were like, oh, he can sing.

So I was sent out for musicals as well. And sort of the musical theater niche is what bit first. And that's sort of where I saw that's where my career ended. And I just sort of like went where it took me, where the wind blowed. So it's not really where I saw my career going. But it's been amazing. Well, yeah, it's been really special. And I have loved doing musical theater. And I have loved particularly bringing what I learned at NYU and bringing my training as an actor to musicals. I think we go hand in hand.

[39:20] Brandon Uranowitz: It's been impossible for me to burn this as sort of like maybe the only... I don't want to say it's the only because I don't have the actual numbers, but there can't be more than four or five plays that I've been seen for. I mean, it's impossible for me to even get seen for them, because for whatever reason, people say musical theatre is one thing and straight theatre is another. And as far as I'm concerned, they're the exact same thing. There's just a melody involved in one of them. And you have to sing on certain pitches in another, but it's the exact same thing. You are trying to tell the truth and bring authenticity to a story and convince an audience of certain circumstances. There's no difference. It sort of bothers me a little bit when I get put into this box of musical theatre as if I can't do the other, but it's the same thing.

[40:37] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, hopefully this will kind of break you out of that pattern a little bit. Going back over your credits, you were marked in the National Tour of Rent and you made your Broadway debut in Baby It's You in 2011. And just a quick question about that. You originated a role as your Broadway debut at that time. Did you know how special that was?

[40:58] Brandon Uranowitz: I did. I did. I mean, that show came with quite a few challenges, but I knew how lucky I was at that time and how rare that is in this business. And especially in my debut, it was... I knew it was special.

[41:26] Alan Seales: That's good. I was going to say that. The thing is that show did not really succeed. It didn't do well. But I was just so unbelievably grateful at the time that I didn't really care. I was still walking. I was still cashing a Broadway check every week. I was going to Times Square every day to go to work. I was living the dream, playing a role nobody had ever played before. It was cool.

[41:59] Brandon Uranowitz: That's fun. And then, yeah, American in Paris and Falsettos. Gosh, Falsettos was like lightning in a bottle with that cast.

[42:06] Brandon Uranowitz: Yes, that was... Christian Borle, Stephanie J. Block, Andrew Randles, Tracy Tom, Betsy Wolfe, Anthony Rosenthal. Yeah, I mean, that was like the pinnacle. Like you said, I always describe it as lightning in a bottle because it was one of those rare things where you love every single person you're working with. You love the material with all of your soul. You love going to work every day and you love doing it. The audiences love it. Critics love it. It was just a perfect storm and that never, ever happens.

[42:44] Alan Seales: Was that chemistry between the cast... Did you all know each other beforehand through any means?

[42:48] Brandon Uranowitz: Not really.

[42:49] Alan Seales: Really?

[42:50] Brandon Uranowitz: It was like...

[42:51] Alan Seales: Casting?

[42:52] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. I mean, I had a work session and a chemistry read, I guess, with Stephanie. It was sort of my last audition, which was a very long process. And as soon as I walked in the room and we made eye contact, I was like, oh, wow. Okay. And we did Making a Home. I remember every single detail of that moment. Again, it was lightning in a bottle.

[43:24] Alan Seales: Wow. Yeah, it was a great, great, great run.

[43:27] Brandon Uranowitz: Thank you. It was amazing.

[43:28] Alan Seales: It's a long, difficult show, too. I mean, the whole thing is almost entirely sung.

[43:32] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, but it was like the most satisfying exhaustion you could possibly imagine. You know what I mean? It was like running a marathon every day, but you're like, we just climbed Mount Everest, and it was so satisfying.

[43:42] Alan Seales: Right. So now... Oh, then you did The Band's Visit, your replacement in The Band's Visit. And now Burn This. Tell everyone about Burn This.

[43:52] Brandon Uranowitz: Okay. I'm going to have to do this, unfortunately, quickly, because I have a fight call in one minute.

[43:59] Alan Seales: Oh, no. Okay.

[44:00] Brandon Uranowitz: But Burn This. You know, it's Lanford Wilson's beautiful play about grief and loss, and it's just, you know, four people coming together and dealing...

[44:13] Alan Seales: Tell everyone it is time for fight call. Fight call, please. May I have cast to the stage?

[44:17] Brandon Uranowitz: Uh-oh.

[44:18] Alan Seales: Uh-oh.

[44:19] Brandon Uranowitz: Okay, wait. Hold on. I'm going to finish this, and then we'll... We can also pause, and I can come back.

[44:22] Alan Seales: Okay.

[44:23] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, it's about four people sort of dealing with the loss of a very important person in their life, and how that grief and that vulnerability and that pain forces you to look inward and sort of, like, reevaluate your life and your relationships, and find out what's important to you and what is meaningful to you, and how, like, grief sort of opens you up to certain possibilities and closes you off to other possibilities. And I'm finally playing a fucking gay character on Broadway.

[45:00] Alan Seales: Let's put a pin in that.

[45:01] Brandon Uranowitz: Okay.

[45:02] Alan Seales: Go do your fight call.

[45:03] Brandon Uranowitz: All right. I'll be right back. I'll be right back.

[45:04] Alan Seales: And we're back.

[45:05] Brandon Uranowitz: And we're back.

[45:06] Alan Seales: Are you all fighted up?

[45:07] Brandon Uranowitz: You know what's hilarious? I just sort of, like, float around the fight. Yeah, no, I'm all fighted up, but I don't really... I'm not really involved in the fight very much.

[45:17] Alan Seales: So you were saying before the break that this is the first time you've actually gotten to play a gay character on stage.

[45:23] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah. On Broadway.

[45:24] Alan Seales: On Broadway.

[45:25] Brandon Uranowitz: I mean, I have played gay characters before, but this is sort of my first... Which is just so shocking to me. I don't know. It's just... It speaks to... And I think Broadway is much better at this than Hollywood is, but it just speaks to the lack of space for us in the storytelling world, in the performing arts. It's a hot-button issue, and it's hard for me to speak to one side of it or the other, because I always do believe that the best person for the part should be playing the part. But there really is an imbalance, and until young gay people can see themselves playing themselves on screen or on stage, there will always be a problem, and there will always be an imbalance. I mean, I've been very lucky, and I've gotten to play some amazing heterosexual characters, and I think that's probably maybe rare.

It certainly is in Hollywood. And if they're not gay, then they're probably in the closet playing straight characters. But I think it's very important that we... Particularly with Burn This, and plays of that era and that moment, it was a very important time for gay people to just see gay people on stage, and just to be acknowledged, and to just have their existence validated. But that's not enough anymore. I think we actually, because actors are no longer these mysterious creatures with social... Now we have social media, and the internet, and transparency is the norm, and we know a lot about people's personal lives. It's no longer just enough to see gay characters. We have to see gay people working and being a part of the workforce, and being productive members of society, and that we are allowed... That we're not just tolerated, and that our existence is real, but that we are contributing to the greater good and the stories.

I think that's... So for me, this is very important, an important moment for me, and for gay kids looking to... Who have dreams of being on Broadway. That they can do it, and that there's space for them.

[48:42] Alan Seales: Well, very well said. And since we are short on time, gosh, I feel like I could talk to you for another four hours. I love this. I love just sitting here with these mics.

[48:54] Brandon Uranowitz: I know, me too. I could talk about this shit for days.

[48:58] Alan Seales: Well, I'll have to come back, and we can do...

[49:02] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, yeah, let's do part two.

[49:03] Alan Seales: Okay, we'll do part two. But to end part one here, there's three closing questions that I ask everybody on the podcast. Okay. First, very simply, what motivates you?

[49:07] Brandon Uranowitz: Oh, my God. This sounds so strange, but young people. People who I used to be. Young kids who I know feel the way that I did, and need a better model than I had, is what motivates me to keep going, and to keep doing the work, is to be that thing that I didn't have.

[49:28] Alan Seales: Mm-hmm. And what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now, starting out down a similar path?

[49:52] Brandon Uranowitz: Stop trying to be the people that you're not, because they appear to be succeeding more than you. Go at your own pace, and do things on your own time, so long as you are truly and 100% authentic to yourself. Never ever compare yourself to other people. It will get you nowhere, and you will never be that other person. And guess what? That other person will never be you. So, stay true to yourself, and trust your gut, and don't convince people of anything else.

[50:44] Alan Seales: And then, last question. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you could see it as many times as you want, what show would you see?

[50:48] Brandon Uranowitz: Ragtime.

[50:49] Alan Seales: Wow. Three for Ragtime. I think you're the third person who said Ragtime.

[50:54] Brandon Uranowitz: Really? Yeah. Ragtime is a popular one. I mean, obviously, I'm a little biased, because I was a part of it. But I will say, I took a road trip not that long ago. By myself, I was going somewhere to visit someone. And I put on the Ragtime cast album, and sobbed. Like, catharsis to the nth degree. And I guess I don't know what it is about that score, and about that story, and about those people doing it. I could, for days, for the rest of my days.

[51:34] Alan Seales: Wonderful. So, people can connect with you on Instagram, at Brann, you're in?

[51:39] Brandon Uranowitz: That's right.

[51:39] Alan Seales: You are in, and then, that's it, right?

[51:41] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, that's me.

[51:42] Alan Seales: That's it. On Instagram, you can get more of-

[51:44] Brandon Uranowitz: I mean, I'm on Twitter, but I don't use Twitter.

[51:48] Alan Seales: So, Instagram.

[51:49] Brandon Uranowitz: Instagram, cool. So, you get more of me, at Theatre Underscore Podcast, on Instagram and Twitter. Facebook.com slash Official Theatre Podcast. Of course, listen and subscribe, rate and review. The ratings help tremendously. I read those. This is produced by Jillian Hockman. And then, thank you, as always, to Jukebox the Ghost for the intro and outro music you hear right now. Brandon, thank you so much. This has been incredible.

[52:12] Brandon Uranowitz: Thank you for having me. This was so much fun.

[52:14] Alan Seales: We have to do a part two.

[52:15] Brandon Uranowitz: Yeah, we're gonna do a part two.

[52:16] Alan Seales: Okay, thank you so much for it.