This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tala Ashe: Hi, I'm Tala Ashe. Welcome to The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales.

[0:12] Alan Seales: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another all-new episode of The Theatre Podcast. I'm Alan Seales, and our guest for this episode is Tala Ashe, who is making her long-awaited Broadway debut in English, the Pulitzer Prize-winning play by Sinéad Stussi. You may also know her as a time-traveling computer hacker from Legends of Tomorrow. But beyond her super-powered roles, Tala has built a career that's deeply rooted in storytelling that challenges perspectives and broadens representation. In this episode, Tala shares her personal story from Iran to the Midwest and how her upbringing shaped her relationship with language, culture, and her own personal identity. And she opens up about the pressures of assimilation, you know, being somebody who moved to the Midwest, the power of representation, and how English resonates on a deeply personal level for her.

We also get into the challenges of switching between accents on stage, the evolution of the Middle Eastern representation in Hollywood, and why she's so passionate about choosing nuanced, fully realized roles. This is a conversation filled with honesty, vulnerability, and the kind of insight that makes you rethink how we connect through language and performance. So, before we dive in, be sure to follow the podcast on all social media, leave a rating and review, leave a comment. Check out the video version on Patreon and or Spotify. And now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Tala Ashe.

[1:39] Alan Seales: Today's guest is a computer hacker from the year 2042 who possesses aerokinetic powers from a mystical amulet. Of course, starring as dual versions of her character within the DC Comics drama Legends of Tomorrow. She also has notable television roles in Smash, American Odyssey, Covert Affairs, Law & Order: Criminal Intent, and As the World Turns. On stage, she received critical acclaim for her off-Broadway performance in English, a Pulitzer Prize-winning play by Sinéad Tussi that explores language and identity in an incredibly funny yet poignant way. And she is now making her Broadway debut, bringing English to the Broadway stage. Tala Ashe, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[2:14] Tala Ashe: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[2:18] Alan Seales: You are very welcome. Thank you for being here. I know this is a busy time of February as we're recording this, and there's illnesses we were just talking about. And I know you were born in Iran, correct?

[2:31] Tala Ashe: Yes.

[2:32] Alan Seales: And then being here in America now, I assume you've gone through a lot of the same things personally that your character may be going through in English or people that you know, especially personally. But take us back to the beginning of where you were born and what your childhood was like that even got you into performing.

[2:52] Tala Ashe: Yeah. In some ways, my journey is like the mirror image of my character Elham, which we'll get more into, but I was born in Iran and my parents and I left when I was a baby during the Iran-Iraq war. This was after the revolution. And my parents are both architects. So they took the TOEFL test that we talk about so much in English.

[3:17] Alan Seales: What's TOEFL stand for, for those who haven't seen the play?

[3:23] Tala Ashe: I have to get this correct. It's the test of English as a foreign language. T-O-F-L.

[3:29] Alan Seales: T-O-E-F-L.

[3:31] Tala Ashe: T-O-E-F-L. TOEFL. TOEFL. Okay. I don't know why the O gets an O, but it's... TOEFL. Okay.

[3:38] Tala Ashe: But that test is integral for anyone who is coming to an English-speaking country and wants to study. So my parents both took that test. I think my dad took it several times. So they came here and initially we went to Florida and we were basically moving around because of the admittance that they had to universities. We went to University of Florida. They stayed there for a while. Thank God they hated the humidity and did not get good vibes and left. No offense to Florida or maybe.

[4:15] Alan Seales: Yeah, we don't like Florida right now.

[4:19] Tala Ashe: A pit stop sort of in Georgia for a little bit. And then eventually we landed in Columbus, Ohio because of the Ohio State University, which is where my parents attended the architecture school for their master's program. And I grew up in Columbus, Ohio.

[4:37] Alan Seales: So they went there as students?

[4:41] Tala Ashe: Yeah, they were students. They were, I guess, 27 and 31, something like that.

[4:51] Alan Seales: Wow.

[4:52] Tala Ashe: Yeah.

[4:53] Alan Seales: Yeah. So you grew up then in Ohio. And I mean, I guess that's really kind of all you knew then because you said you left Iran when you were a baby, right? So do you remember any of that?

[5:03] Tala Ashe: I had an interesting experience. Obviously, my parents were Iranian. There actually is an Iranian community in Columbus because of the university primarily. So I always grew up with the culture. I would go to Persian class every Saturday. So I have a seventh grader's education in Farsi. So I was involved in the Persian community and also having a very Midwestern upbringing and wanting to assimilate. And, you know, it was the 90s. It was the 2000s. Being blonde was cool. And TV shows looked like Friends. And I didn't see a lot of representation for really any people of color, but certainly not Middle Eastern people. So yeah, I spent a lot of time trying to fit in to varying degrees. I never didn't feel proud about being Iranian, but I was grappling with my relationship to it.

And there was this sort of, it's like hard for me to even say it now, but like there was an aspiration towards whiteness. Even though, you know, I went to schools that were like fairly diverse and my parents made an effort to put me in situations where there was more diversity. You know, it's like you're handed a Barbie and that becomes the blueprint and you see these rom-coms and everybody looks a certain way. And, you know, I grew up in a family of artists and I always was involved with music and eventually theater. Theater came to me sort of later in high school, but I would watch movies and imagine myself and there was this disconnect. And I think in my young brain, I thought, okay, if I could just be more like them, I will be able to do that.

[7:07] Alan Seales: Be more like them in personality or by looks?

[7:10] Tala Ashe: Looks, looks, whiteness, frankly. And I mean, that's, you know, to maybe jump ahead and like talk about the power of representation. If you can see it, you can be it. And why I think that's such a small but powerful idea. There was nothing to see. The best thing I had was Aladdin. It's not great. We are ironically performing across the street from Aladdin right now, which I sort of love.

[7:37] Alan Seales: Yeah. Then if you weren't seeing yourself represented though, was that discouragement or encouragement to be what you didn't see?

[7:48] Tala Ashe: You know, I have really, really supportive parents who always let me try a lot of things. I was, I was that kid who was doing, you know, ballet class and music and violin. And like, I was, I was, I was really dabbling in everything with a lot of parental encouragement and they really did give me a sense, thank God, that I could do anything and that they would support me, which is extraordinary. I'm an only child. And when I think now, if I had a child and that one child after emigrating to this country told me that they wanted to be an actor, I would be like, don't do that. But they really, they never, I don't know. I, I, I, I don't think that they were having something internally different, but I never got a whiff of them not wanting me to pursue what I wanted to pursue.

And I was, I just want to say, I was very academically inclined. Like I could have gone, I was like, I'm going to be a lawyer. And then I had this high school drama teacher who's still a dear friend and mentor. He's actually coming to the show next week to see my material.

[9:04] Alan Seales: From Ohio?

[9:05] Tala Ashe: From Ohio. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Jeff Barber. And he really opened my eyes to, to, to the world of theater, to the, to the world of plays, but also, I don't know. I just had this sense of, oh, this is something that is intriguing to me and difficult, but like achievable, like, like this, this, this feels like a worthy pursuit. And not that nothing else had up to that point, but it just, it felt so in my body different than my academic pursuits up to that point. And, you know, as they say, I got, you know, I got the bug and decided to audition for conservatory programs, along with all of my academic colleges that I applied to and ultimately went to Boston University and had a very rigorous four-year conservatory education.

[10:05] Alan Seales: So are you focused?

[10:06] Tala Ashe: Yeah.

[10:07] Alan Seales: Oh, I was going to say we focus on theater. So you, you started out in theater. I have a BFA in acting. So, wow. What was the first show you did? Like what age was that?

[10:15] Tala Ashe: Oh, like the first show ever, ever. I mean, like when you say you got the bug, was that a local production of Christmas Carol? What, you know, that's usually what gets some, what gets most kids. This is crazy. Um, we were just doing scene work as part of drama class and we were reading A Raisin in the Sun.

[10:33] Alan Seales: Wow.

[10:34] Tala Ashe: And again, we're in Ohio, so no one is sort of appropriately cast needs to be said. Um, but we were, we were, you know, getting up and doing the scenes and that scene, uh, Benita has, um, with her mother where she says, I don't believe in God. I remember watching other students do it and being like, I think I understand what the scenes, you know, as my 15 year old self or whatever it was. And, um, I got up and in, in my like dramatic memory of it, like the room got quiet and I like did whatever the 10 lines of that scene. And it just felt like, oh no. And, oh yeah, there is, there's something, I just tapped into something that I had never felt before that, that also, again, speaking to, speaking to that kid that I was, who was trying to assimilate, was trying to fit in.

I think what, sorry, I'm going to get emotional actually thinking about it right now, but like, I think what acting has given me is like a refuge inside myself, you know, it's like kind of a safe, a safe place that feels like me and it doesn't need to be validated by outside people. Although obviously that's, you know, there's a piece of that. Um, uh, very much so, uh, in, in performance, but there is the kind of, um, communion with the self that felt really special. And I still get that feeling. And when I feel as inevitably it does, the ego shows up in, in, in art, uh, and it is often not helpful. And that's a, that's a sort of battle you have to wage that, like that private, like artistic space. That's a little bit mysterious. It has been my refuge. And I think it's actually like why I keep coming back to, to, to doing the work.

[12:39] Alan Seales: Thank you. I, I, I understand. I mean, I can't be being a straight cis white male in America. I can't fully understand what you went through and are still going through every day, but I understand the feeling of being othered in my own way and having to, I mean, everybody, everybody, I think wants to belong, wants to find a home emotionally. Right. And then, and then see my, myself too. Please cry all you want. Sorry. Who knows what's happening here at 1 PM. Um, but, but yeah, I, I found my love deep of the deep, my deep love of theater when I was most feeling othered myself and, and so I can relate along those lines a lot.

[13:33] Tala Ashe: Yeah. There's like this map. I mean, like we're seeking community to, as you say, we all want to belong, but I think in order to belong, you first have to connect to yourself. Like you have to see yourself. You have to see like that little sort of, um, unencumbered, uh, little sea.

[14:23] Tala Ashe: Those teen years, that's, you know, between the tweens and the 20s. I mean, 20s, too, if you don't do the teens right. But yeah, those teen years, I just remember, I was like, this is where I belong. And I enjoy so much not being myself. And I think that gives you perspective on who you are. Because you don't know you're hot unless you've been cold. You don't know you're in unless you've been out. And I think being other people allows you to better understand who you are by being who you're not.

[14:53] Tala Ashe: Yeah, yeah, that's so true. And it does feel like, again, if you're attuned to this, every character, every part, every scene, every play that you encounter, I look at it, there's like a reason that it is in my life in the moment that it is in my life. And it has something to teach me if I'm open to that. English sort of being like that on steroids. But throughout, it's in a weird way, it's like the theater helped me grow up. Plays helped me become who I am in relation to, you know, what I was reading, what I was performing in, how I was who I was acting against, you know, scene work, communication, basic human things that, as you say, as a teenager, it's not necessarily like firing on all cylinders.

[15:46] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's a really good way of putting it. You're still building the engine when you're trying to figure out what your engine looks like and how many cylinders you have. So then Boston Conservatory, intense Boston University, Boston University, conservatory training, intense for years, and then so you come out and do theater, but then you seem to have fallen into a string of success in TV and on the screen as well. So I know like you were in theater and you left and then now obviously, you're coming back. But at what point? I guess what shifted for you to get you into the TV and film space?

[16:16] Tala Ashe: Well, you know, you have to make money. So that there's that. That's important. And it is. And yeah, I mean, as you say, I did. This all started with theater. But I've always loved film. I've always loved television. And you know, I came up in the age of sort of golden TV. So like watching things like The Wire, watching Breaking Bad, it's like, oh my God, these are plays. The level of text that I'm watching, this is as good as Chekhov, you know? So that's what I was aspiring to. And then I did a soap opera. And then I had a very rude awakening as to what was actually available out there. And, you know, there were a lot of years of feeling certainly othered, a lot of heartbreak, honestly, around the what was available and things I played or things I said no to eventually, because I had learned that it's just sort of not worth it.

But I have come to really love the medium of television and film. And being on Legends of Tomorrow for five years was such a gift. Going back to what we were saying, the community, the cast and crew and creatives there were so wonderful and open and had their heart in the right place always. And I felt listened to and cared for in a way that I hadn't experienced before. And then I just had the continuity of time. To have five years on a set, you just get your hours. And having built that amount of comfort and ease, there's no way to get that other than to do it. And doing Legends was really hard work a lot of the time, but it was a real joy. And I still don't think I have ever laughed harder than I laughed when I was on that set with those people and those incredibly zany scripts that would land in our desks every two weeks.

[18:53] Alan Seales: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[18:57] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the episode. So yeah, you know, I've come to really love television and would love to do more. But yeah, it was hard to be away from theatre. And it had been five years since I touched a play when I did English Off-Broadway. And I was terrified. I was terrified. I was like, we're coming out of the pandemic. I was like, I don't know how to do a play. I don't know. You know, like, I don't think this is like riding a bike. It sort of was. But to get to come back and do this play after five years of doing, you know, not only another medium, but like a very specific kind of work. It was just a gift. Honestly, even if Broadway had never happened, that three months or whatever in February of 2022 was a gift for my soul.

[19:55] Alan Seales: Well, the play won the Pulitzer in 23, right?

[19:58] Tala Ashe: Yeah, 23 after we did. Yeah.

[20:01] Alan Seales: I mean, it is such a well-written script and it's built as a comedy. But I walked away feeling so many feelings and empathizing with so many situations and scenarios. And so diving into English, the play, right, your characters are it's a group of students in Iran learning English. Marjan Neshat plays the teacher and your character specifically has a really, I won't say love-hate, maybe it's hate-hate. I don't know. A hate-hate relationship with learning English. But you were saying right as we started recording or before we started recording that, like, you have anxiety about doing the different accents, because I love what's been set up, the motif that's been set up in the play where when you're speaking Farsi to each other in the play, it's your normal American accent as you're talking to me right now.

And then when you're speaking American speaking English, you know, you put on an accent depending on how much difficulty the character has with the English language. My character has a lot of difficulty.

[21:12] Tala Ashe: Yeah, she is a real struggle to speak English for, you know, did you I mean, are you working with dialect? Did you guys have to work with dialect coaches to actually put on an appropriate accent or was this something?

[21:26] Tala Ashe: Well, I'll say I had a we did not have a dialect coach. Yes. So Sanaz Toossi would give us notes on the dialect as needed. But it was more about each character's facility with the language. And as I said, my facility is low and there is a hate-hate relationship with English for Elham. And it's not that I have anxiety about the accent, exactly. It's more challenging, I think, than I realized, certainly on my voice in a New York City winter. And the placement of my normal dialect, as you hear it now, and the accent of dialect are very, very different. And I do some screaming in the show. I'm doing some hijinks from Elham. So yeah, it's a muscular show. And certainly being on Broadway and feeling the breadth of 750 people in front of you. It's very different than the Atlantic where it was incredibly small and intimate. And probably hear my voice a little grovelly right this minute. But yeah, we did not have a dialect coach. I don't think we needed it.

[22:47] Alan Seales: No, no. I mean, I was just I was curious how some of this stuff works sometimes. And I mean, so for you then approaching the role initially, back in 2022, then, like, had you worked with Sanaz before? And like, for you personally, given your duality in coming and living in America and dual and being exposed to dual cultures, like how did that incorporate into how you were creating Elham?

[23:12] Tala Ashe: I had just met Sanaz in 2019, I believe, when I did a reading of English in between one of my seasons. I was on hiatus, we were in the basement of the roundabout. And I just thought, wow, this play is really good. And I went back to work, you know, I went back to Vancouver and just assumed I'm just not gonna I'm just not available, unfortunately, because I was, you know, tied up with that contract. And because of the pandemic and schedule shifts, the show moved to 2022. And I became available, which was just a miracle. I was looking at an email the other day that my manager had sent me, because I was slated to do another play at the public, like a month after I got home from wrapping the season.

And he was like, you know, this offer came through, I know you're gonna do this other play, you probably don't want to. And I saw what the offer was, what the play was. And I just wrote back to him, I think if I don't do this, I'm gonna kick myself. And it's true. So yeah, we, you know, sort of moved a couple of small mountains in order to make it happen. And it's just, what was your initial question?

[24:29] Tala Ashe: I have no idea. I just love watching you talk. You get so like, you're you light up when you talk about this.

[24:35] Tala Ashe: Yeah, no, this is, um, I keep joking to people that I'm going to retire after this. But I know, because I know the value, I know the worth of what it is that we're doing. And it actually has nothing to do with Broadway and nothing to do with the Pulitzer Prize. It has to do with this incredible young woman who wrote this play in response to the Muslim ban, a play that she describes as a scream into the void, and never thought that the play would be produced, the play was produced, and then has had this journey. But to be able to portray the characters that we're portraying, but specifically from speaking for me, this play takes place in 2008. On the eve of the Green Revolution in Iran, following a fraudulent election. Where a lot of people, but a lot of women took to the streets, often wearing green, which there's a nod to that in the play, these incredibly brave, resilient women speaking up against their government.

[25:47] Tala Ashe: And so Elham, for me, is one of those women. And to get to portray her to in some ways, some way be an example of that fierceness and resilience. And then in the intervening three years, the woman life freedom movement that has happened in Iran, the amount of responsibility that I feel that I happily take on, and that she's a sort of like avatar of an Iranian woman. It's just so meaningful. And that, again, it was meaningful three years ago. And I'm so obviously heartened that the show has been received well, and that people have a good time and people are moved and some people are even changed for the better. But yeah, it's just, it's not about the accolades. For me being in a show that speaks to and not for because we cannot speak for them, but we are, you know, theatricalizing, we're delving into a possible one experience of an Iranian woman.

It's, I'm obviously struggling to put it into words, because it's so large and meaningful, and almost feels overwhelming. And I just, I never thought it, I just, I could have never imagined this, even that little like, whatever 12 year old who is watching Aladdin, like, just couldn't have imagined this for herself and couldn't have imagined audience members seeing Iranians on stage, which is powerful on one level, but it's, but they're not, yes, they're receiving us as Iranians, but they're receiving us as people, as human beings, and that, that universality that Sanaz has written in.

[27:47] Tala Ashe: This play, it's why it's why I do art. And it's so rare. And it's so rare that people are moved and touched and think about things after they leave. And I think this play is doing that and to be a part of it and to represent a character who is unapologetic, and fierce, and after something and conflicted about it and fighting for it. It's such an honor. It is such an honor. Yeah, I really like can't. I can't ask for more.

[28:24] Alan Seales: Have your parents come to see it? And especially your dad, who took the TOEFL test?

[28:28] Tala Ashe: Yeah, they both took it. They've both taken the TOEFL. I think he took it more. Yes, they came and saw it on opening night. They saw it off-Broadway as well. But having them there at the Broadway opening was just like beyond. I looked out and I didn't, you know, try not to take in the audience too intensely until the end. But at curtain call, I looked out and they were like, dead center, four rows back. And it's just, yeah, like, I just, I think they can't, they almost like can't fathom what they're watching. Like, their daughter, that that circumstance has been different. Like, we would all be in Iran still, you know. And because of a couple of historical socio-political events, we find ourselves here, but like, their daughter is on a Broadway stage speaking Persian.

It's, it's the like, I think they don't even quite have the words for it. And I don't necessarily either. But having them there was so meaningful. And yeah, these are these are like the moments I think you remember in your life, you know. And they'll never forget it either. I'm crying a lot. Sorry, not sorry.

[29:43] Alan Seales: No, I, I was just wondering, because you were so young, you, I don't, you know, we talked about this, you don't remember being in Iran yourself. But I wonder if you were able to talk with them after they saw the show, and if they were able to relate anything, and like, talk to you about, I mean, you said they saw it off Broadway. So maybe you could, you pulled this into your Broadway performance, too. But the characters that were watching on stage, there's, there's this underlying theme of, if I'm not speaking my native language, I don't, do I know who I am anymore? I don't know who I am. And I said this before, it's that like, if my personality is Alan, the English speaking guy is lots of dad jokes, lots of puns.

But if I learn another language, am I the same person? Because I don't understand that. I mean, even Japanese, they don't have rhyming. And rhyming is fun. Like in the Japanese language, there's no, they don't rhyme. You know, so there's, I didn't know that. That's funny. That's why, that's why like, there's haikus, not poems, I guess. But don't quote me on that. Don't come after me listeners. But yeah, they don't rhyme. Side note, I spoke with someone years ago for this podcast who was translating Hamilton into Japanese.

[31:05] Tala Ashe: Wow.

[31:06] Alan Seales: Just as a personal project.

[31:07] Tala Ashe: Good luck. Without rhyming?

[31:10] Alan Seales: With that. And, and yeah, that was part of the problem was, was how do you rhyme? How do you make rhymes? How do you turn R&B into a whole thing when there's no rhymes? So anyway.

[31:19] Tala Ashe: Fascinating. Language is fascinating.

[31:22] Alan Seales: Right, right. But, but did you talk with your parents about this about like, them losing identity or finding new identity? And like, when basically you're like context switching between, I mean, are you context switching between one language and another? Like, do you become different people?

[31:36] Tala Ashe: Yeah, I did. I did speak to them, more my mom, actually, just this last time that they came. And, you know, my parents both have accents. So I grew up in Ohio with parents who have accents. And I'm ashamed now to say that I would feel embarrassed sometimes, or like, if you were out to eat, or the waiter would be like, what, you know, like, there was there were a lot of sort of microaggressions like that, that I certainly clocked and, you know, put into my own, like, must assimilate bag. And I was talking to my mom, she's an incredibly accomplished, both of my parents are, but she is incredibly accomplished. I can't even quite describe what she does to this day. But she went to architecture school, she became city planner, she now does basically like digital mapping on steroids, like running the maps of like, Columbus, Ohio.

She has a nonprofit, when there's disaster, she deploys volunteers, disaster relief, using maps. Oh, God, there's Ebola here. Oh, let's send people out. Let's map it out. Oh, there's a flood. Like she's, she's truly a rock star. And there's definitely so much of Elham, or her in Elham, in terms of the ambition and the smarts. And this woman comes here. I think she aced her Tuffle. But she came and she was like, I have this line in the play where I say, the Tuffle says, like, I speak excellent English now. And it's like, no, you don't. You actually realize how you're what your English is like.

[33:20] Alan Seales: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[33:24] Tala Ashe: Welcome back to the episode. My mom was telling me, especially, and she still gives a lot of presentations. But in those early days, she would give presentations on very, very technical aspects of her work to these big groups of people. And she said, hopefully, it's okay to share this, I assume it is. But she said, she would open her mouth. And she would see in the eyes of the people in front of her, that suddenly her personhood was under question. And herself had dissipated. And it would take minutes, minutes, minutes, minutes, in order to get their attention, their eyes back their, their understanding, their willingness even to understand. And then, you know, people, people do that thing where they start speaking really loudly at you, because they think you're hard of hearing as well as speaking the second language.

And she endured that for years. And I think even to this day, I mean, she still has an accent. But she said to me, she's like, I'm proud of it now. She's like, I don't she's like, I felt like I had to apologize for it. Or, and this is my impression of what she was saying, apologize for it, or, you know, get ahead of it, try to make my you know, she's such a she's so smart and such a perfectionist. She worked so hard to get rid of as much of her accent as possible. And now, now she's like, fuck it. Like, I am who I am. I'm proud of who I am. This is my voice. And I've been trying to, I think like, that's sort of the ideal journey is like, she has found she has been able to find herself, I think, in the English language.

And it's, it's imperfect, right? Because you always have a foot in both worlds, linguistically. And ironically, I think her, her Persian has gotten worse now, because she doesn't have practice. And like anything, you know, it's been whatever, it's been 30 some years, the English, the Persian language has also changed, language changes, language evolves, there are different words, there are different sayings, like, Skibidi, Skibidi Riz, Skibidi Riz, Ohio. I mean, there's so many things. Sometimes when I speak to Iranians who are like from Iran now, I could see them looking at me in a way where I'm like, Oh, I sound like my grandmother, I am speaking the Persian from 1960. And you are speaking 2025.

Oh, my God, I'm using words that are not words anymore, that are commonly used. So yeah, it's, you know, it's something I like the accent thing, the, the alienation, the discrimination, certainly that I have many, many an anecdote from Ohio about that, some overt, some more, you know, micro aggressions, but I had a lot of source material, all that to say I had a lot of source material going into this, I had both for the certainly for the accents themselves, which, you know, to a certain degree, it's theatricalized. I'm always looking at it, like, in some ways, I need to look at it as the character as, you know, through my actions through the technical exercise of like, what words need to be emphasized?

And, you know, what, like, why does she know this word and not this word? And so it's, it's, it's less about getting the accent perfect, and more about getting the feel of the character, which has sort of been my North Star. And to know that I am representing, as I said, like Iranian women writ large, but my mother and my grandmother and anyone who has felt like they lose a piece of themselves because of taking on another language. And in Elham's case, like, it needs to be said, she loves Iran, she loves Persian language. I don't think she wants to leave her country. And it is because of what's happening in her country, meeting her ambition, that she's like, I want to be a doctor. So I'm going to Australia, she doesn't want to go to Australia, she has she has a hate hate relationship with English, English is a means to an end, the tuffle is just this, this tool for her, that she needs to ace in order to go do this next thing.

But she deeply, deeply resents that English is the barrier to entry. And that she does feel like she loses herself. She does not feel like herself and speaking the English language. And this really obviously butts up against what the teacher Marjan is doing, which is trying to make fall in love with English language. She obviously has some fascination and joy around it. Marjan says, I like myself better in English.

[38:39] Tala Ashe: Exactly. And then at the end, Elham says, No, I like Elham when she speaks Farsi, you know, and that that kind of like, mirror thing is interesting. And they do I mean, most of the play, they're sort of missing each other. The communication is not going well, because I think Elham sees this woman as, you know, embracing this, the colonizer in a way, frankly. Yeah. And rejecting everything that she loves and everything that she's pissed that she has to leave. Because of the circumstances, like, so many audience members come up to me and not so many, but there have been audience members that come up to me and say like, Oh, she's really, she's really hard to like, or she's what a spicy characters, things like that.

And you didn't get it. Yeah. Or like, why is she so angry? Why is she so angry? And I'm like, you look at women in Iran, and tell me that's not righteous anger, right? And I am ready to hold that. And I'm not here to make it pretty for you. I'm not interested in that. Elham's not interested in that. That is not the goal. She does not want to be liked by you. And the part of Tala that wants to be liked by everybody, like needs to take a backseat. Like, that's not that's not what we're doing here.

[40:58] Tala Ashe: And so I really, I don't know, I feel I feel really like, defensive and I want to really defend that fierceness and bravery and Elham that I think some people interpret as, I don't know, being a difficult woman.

[41:05] Alan Seales: I was gonna say exactly that. I heard that. Yeah, I was exactly gonna say that. It's just because what is it an assertive man is, is attractive, assertive woman is is a bitch. You know, what's that stereotype? Right? Yeah. Like, yeah, I'm watching Elham on stage. And I feel so sad for her. When I when I watch her, when I watch you and because I know she wants to be a better person. She wants to be a better human, human, not Iranian, not American, just a better human. And has this one wall she has to climb over that she can't climb over. But she's not dumb. She's not. She's not a stereotype. She's not unmotivated. In fact, quite the opposite. No, she's usually the best student in the class. I think that's actually what why this is breaking her is that she is this she is bad at English and being bad at something for someone like her is on top of all the other impossibility the difficulties that she's facing. It's it's maddening. It's it's beyond maddening. There's a lot. Oh, let's see. There's a lot to be angry. And anger is what?

[42:11] Tala Ashe: It means now you have to leave. You have to leave your country and your friends and your family and everything that you love. And for me, that last scene is like, really about how do you say goodbye? How do you say goodbye? She's like doesn't doesn't know how. And the only thing she has going forward is herself and her voice and her very imperfect voice and her English that is going to be deeply accented and deeply criticized and misinterpreted but it but it also is it's her it's all it is so this is this is myself you know and there is a there's a sort of lesson I think in there of like you gotta you also got to be friends with yourself because it's sort of all all you've got at the end of the day you know it's hard to be liked by others when you don't like yourself yeah I like what you said that this is probably the one thing in Ilham's entire life that she hasn't been really good at and it's destroying her.

I feel that. I very much feel that. I know some people I don't know maybe I can relate not me not me at all no no no no speaking for a friend speaking for a friend totally do you do you have you seen the the roles that are getting offered to you or that you're even being called into audition for has that changed over the past decade or is it's kind of still the same and like have you turned down things because they're just like playing stereotypes oh yeah I I just you know I have I no longer have I never really did but I don't have an interest in playing like a sad brown person for you ever without nuance I I say no I have said no to a lot of auditions and things that that have come my way I'm I am when it comes to portraying specifically Middle Eastern characters I'm very very very very picky like very picky what do you look for um number one nuance um humanity it seems so it seems so insane to say it but I'll just say it they need to feel like a human being a three-dimensional human being and so often it's two-dimensional if you're just there as a prop you're there as a facet in order to give give a vibe I I was just gonna tell a story I did a play in New York and the director of a very very well-established director I found out during the first day when we were they were doing design presentations that one of the care I was playing several characters one of the characters that I was playing they wanted her to wear a hijab this play was not specifically set in the Middle East there were no other brown people in the cast my husband in the play was white but I was gonna wear a hijab so I I had a I had questions and I those questions were reasonable I thought which was like so sorry are we are we must am I Muslim in the play how does it what where where are we what are we doing is my husband Muslim should he be wearing like like this sort of reasonable uh this text analysis questions um dramaturgical questions and uh this director and actually the costume designer they were like it's we just want a little bit of Muslim flair what mm-hmm they want to check the diversity box uh they just wanted Muslim flair and they also wanted to fire me for asking those questions what oh my gosh the very very prominent theater in in the in the great city of of New York wow and that was not that long ago I'm sorry to say whoo okay um and all that to say the the the fight is ongoing um I I've sort of accepted it as part and parcel of being um an actor from from that part of the world but yeah it's it is it is also frustrating like sometimes I'm like you know I am all I also did just like grow up in Columbus Ohio and like sound very Midwestern as you can hear and it would be nice to not have to to fight this parallel fight of like I'm doing my work I'm trying to be a good actor and I'm like I don't want to I don't want to be a representation um uh you know monitor so not exactly answering your questions has there been improvement yes am I confident that that's going to sustain without a lot of work from a lot of different people and a lot of different advocates no um I think especially like Mina representation Manasa representation we have a long way to go um especially now under this administration um it's all the more challenging and I think really important to there's there's not an end point right like it's sort of it's you have you have to keep pushing down the door the door is not open forever you know like how wonderful that their shows like Rami or Mo exist and then they will end and if we don't continue to advocate for our representation in our stories and I mean sure Iranian stories but also Iranian American stories or not like just characters that look like our world um things aren't going to change and the status quo is a very very powerful force and I think especially now as our industry is contracting and we are going back to sort of this old model of okay what's safe like what's going to make money what's who like who are the people that you know we we know are known entities and it's like well a lot of those people are um the people that were propped up you know 10 and 20 years ago and they aren't there it's it's it's not a diverse pool and if you don't keep putting an effort um I can't believe I'm talking DEI but here we are if you don't if you if you don't put an effort and like thank god for the organizations and advocates who are who are doing incredible work actually around this um that door will slam back in our faces I already feel it I already feel it I mean I think it's okay to give other people a piece of the pie it doesn't mean your pie gets smaller that's that's what I I am trying to advocate for all the time and when I talk to people about this stuff and it and no it just means the tapestry gets richer it it doesn't it's so hard and I mean I god knows speaking of ego like I got I get this like scarcity mentality is so real and especially in marginalized committee communities it's it's so real but in you know in our entertainment community it's like oh god like there's never enough there's never enough and we I think we really have to work hard to to step outside of that and support each other because I I'm and I'm not just saying this in a Pollyanna kind of way but I really think all of us are better off if the the stories that are being told are rich and diverse and varied we will all get a piece of the proverbial pie you know yeah yeah yeah when we can better understand each other we better understand ourselves and everything we were talking about at the beginning I 100% agree if I could go higher than 100% to agree I would yes yes yes all right so gosh I wish I could talk to you forever but we unfortunately will start to wind down here with a little game that I like to play a little game I like to play my YouTube video just started playing okay so I am going to put 60 seconds on your screen but June oh a real game a real game this is an anxiety-inducing game I have learned well I'm very competitive so let's go okay okay just just like the play all right so I have a list of 16 popular musicals in front of me and give me a number 1 through 16 which corresponds to a show on my list I'll tell you what the show is when you give me the number and then you have 60 seconds to give me that plot oh no it's gonna be fun you're gonna okay you're gonna tell me a musical I'm gonna tell you the plot of that musical all right this is gonna be something all right give me a number 1 through 16 16 okay that is 6 60 seconds remaining 6 is a musical about 6 um I think it's I think it's the wives of of Henry the 8th yes the 7th 8th 8th um oh I can't believe I know this one um and they are all singing their songs and probably some of them are getting killed along the way because he loves to do that to all of them and um hopefully it's female empowerment even though he's in charge and I the costumes look really great in the posters that I have seen uh and 6 is a great number oh my god 9 seconds um and I am available for an audition starting March 2nd 3 not bad what nobody wants not bad uh yes divorced beheaded died divorced beheaded survived there you go that's that's your plot it's all right so now we shift over to the three standard closing questions I ask everyone to wrap up the first one simply is just what motivates you what motivates me is making my parents sacrifice um not sacrifice but their journey and my journey meaningful I love that what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path try to find a way to be a good friend to yourself uh it's really hard this business is brutal and will make you feel lesser than in a lot of ways and if you have that um bone that inclination in you to beat yourself up further which I certainly do and did it's all the more important to to be a good friend to yourself I also love that all right this is the final question last one hardest one if you could only see one show for the rest of your life but you can see it as many times as you want what would you see well one show at many times and torn between two greats Chekhov and Shakespeare but I think it's actually going to go Shakespeare and I think it's going to go Hamlet just because I think there would be there's there's that you can unpack that language forever and listen to it forever and find new things yeah he's the master the bard he's the greatest good old bard the good old bard all right so where can we find you online where where do you play the social media game oh I I try to play it mostly on the Instagram uh at Tala Ash good all right I am poorly on social media I try I try so hard but it's so hard I'm so bad at that game it's so toxic I'm on threads Instagram TikTok Facebook I got presents there leave a rating and review wherever you're listening now especially now on Spotify they do ratings and comments now thanks to jukebox the ghost for the intro and outro music and Tala thank you so much I'm sorry thank you cried but I'm not sorry because oh my god dude you're you're amazing no no I'm keeping them in because you are beautiful in them and being so vulnerable and open and thank you thank you thank you thank you thanks for having me