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[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "Memory" — performed by Melanie Goerlitz ♪

[4:50] Mike Abrams: Wow, welcome everybody to Broadway Reborn. My name is Mike Abrams and I am the host of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of The Cat Stachyphe. My podcast interviews past cast members and argues why I think Grizabella was the wrong choice. Now, first off, what about that music video? So a special thanks to Melanie Goerlitz who sang and recorded this Broadway Reborn version of Memory. That song was written by me, performed by Melanie, and then a special thanks to Alan Seales of the Broadway Podcast Network and Jonathan Cerullo who helped produce that music video. So why are we here today? Why are you watching and thank you for watching? Last October, the Cats National 3 Tour got together with Broadway Cares to have an amazing fundraiser called Cats for COVID Relief.

And with Broadway reopening, we decided that what better way than to celebrate Broadway being reborn to a new jovial life. So tonight, a thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network, Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS, Jonathan Cerullo, and the entire Cats National 3 cast for helping put together this event. So here's what you can expect from today. You're going to get some fun conversations with cast members. You're going to get a little Cats trivia because there are a couple of things I think a lot of people don't know that I want to make sure get out into the world. And then most importantly, what I'm very excited for is we have a few Grizabellas here to come defend their jellicle choice. So let's get started.

And to kick us off, we have a few cast members that are going to join me. So let's meet them. Welcome, welcome, everybody. Okay, so let's hear an introduction, who you were and who you played in Cats.

[5:43] Jonathan Cerullo: Well, I'll go first because I see my picture. I'm Jonathan Cerullo and I played Skimbleshanks in National 3.

[5:54] Christine Toy Johnson: I'm Christine Toy Johnson. I played Sillabub.

[6:01] James Walsky: I'm James Walsky. I was the dance captain and I understudied Plato, Macavity, Alonzo, Tumblebrutus, and Pounceable.

[6:14] Deborah Geneviere Athens: Hi, I'm Deborah Geneviere Athens and I played Demeter and I want to introduce my partner in crime.

[6:22] Adria Gibbs: I'm Adria Gibbs and I played Bombalurina.

[6:26] James Walsky: Oh, that's right.

[6:27] Deborah Geneviere Athens: Very, very fun.

[6:29] Adria Gibbs: We never go anywhere without each other.

[6:33] Mike Abrams: So today's about Broadway reopening. And so I want to take you back to your opening of that first night of Cats. Tell me about that experience. What was that first show like for all of you?

[6:45] Jonathan Cerullo: Oh, wow.

[6:47] Christine Toy Johnson: Well, I remember it was at West Point. It was West Point and everyone in the audience was in a white uniform.

[6:55] James Walsky: That's right. Look at that. I'm in white tonight. You're white, Christine. We looked out and there was a sea of white because they were all cadets, right?

[7:02] Christine Toy Johnson: And we had no idea what the response would be like, but it was amazing. It was fantastic.

[7:10] Mike Abrams: Christine, were you a little worried doing Green Eyes in front of a bunch of military people, scaring somebody?

[7:16] Christine Toy Johnson: Honestly, I didn't think about that. I think we were also focused on remembering everything and getting it all right and the excitement of it. But now, thanks for ruining my memory of that, Mike, because now I will think about that. But I do remember coming down the aisles doing Green Eyes and we thought that people would be scared. But these are West Point cadets and they sat there, you know, eyes forward and they did not flinch. So I thought maybe this Green Eyes doesn't really work, but it was West Point and I'm so glad that these guys are on our team.

[7:51] James Walsky: It was electric. I mean, it was unbelievable how the energy on that stage and the audience, it was pretty magical.

[7:59] Jonathan Cerullo: I wasn't there. I didn't join the company until Baltimore. But my first night, I remember very clearly Jimmy Walsky laughing at me from the back of the audience because we realized during the Gus number when the Siamese came out that we hadn't bothered to block that number.

[8:16] James Walsky: Well, that's right. He told me about that.

[8:18] Jonathan Cerullo: Yeah. So I spent most of the time getting poked in the butt with tridents and pushed around to get me to the right place.

[8:24] James Walsky: And a China silk.

[8:26] Jonathan Cerullo: Exactly. Yes. Well, you know, find all the props I could to make sure I made a big debut.

[8:32] Mike Abrams: So for there's a lot of theater lovers, I'm sure, watching it, but I think it's pretty evident how little I know. And so I know you do previews and you kind of go through this whole part of being ready to go, but then you have your real opening night. How different is that first true production versus everything before and everything after?

[8:53] James Walsky: I'm going to let Jimmy answer that because he, you know, we previewed the show at West Point. I can't remember how many performances. But what when did we act? What was it? What was the city that we actually opened the show in? I can't remember.

[9:07] Jonathan Cerullo: Was it Atlanta? Is that right?

[9:09] James Walsky: I think it was Atlanta because there's this famous story between us. And I remember telling Mike this when I was interviewed on The Wrong Cat Died that we a bunch of us were in a cab on the way to the theater. And we said to the cab driver, can you please take us to where Cats is playing? And he said, no, it's those darn cats.

[9:33] Jonathan Cerullo: Those darn cats. That didn't stick. That didn't stick, unfortunately.

[9:43] James Walsky: No. So I mean, West Point was pretty amazing because we'd worked so hard for so long in the studio. And then we were we came in, we started working on the set. We were doing the technical aspects of it. And then the show was I think everybody was so focused on what was working, what wasn't working, the lighting, the costumes, the casting, everything that was happening. And by the time we rolled into Atlanta, everybody was so secure and so aware of what they were doing there. You could see as myself as a dance captain, I saw the company elevate to a completely different level. They were all in it 100 percent. And our review showed it across the boards. At that point, we were a massive hit and we hit the ground running and just kept going.

[10:39] Jonathan Cerullo: Yeah. Sold out all over the country. And really, for a lot of people, the first time they got to see the show in the United States. And we had one review that was pretty scandalous that came out along our run, maybe five or six stops into it. And I guess the reviewer was not a big fan. He had seen the New York company and sort of had to come as a job to see our production. And in the review, it said that our next stop should be the Winter Garden Theater, our company.

[11:13] James Walsky: Oh, and that that company maybe should resume our tour. And it was a little scandalous that it happened because they felt that we were a very different company and that maybe we should come in and replace the New York company and let them go out on the road. And there was a lot of chatter about that review when it came out.

[11:30] Jonathan Cerullo: That didn't happen. Exactly.

[11:40] Mike Abrams: Now, I'd love to ask. I know this group has also done a lot of producing and directing. What is an opening night like for you on the other side of the house when you're not on stage, but you're still heavily involved in a show? How does that change?

[11:52] Christine Toy Johnson: It's scary. Yeah.

[11:57] Jonathan Cerullo: So it's, you know, you are you know, you bring in your final collaborator on that opening night and the true collaborator is your audience. You know, so the idea is you never actually physically or emotionally know how they're going to respond to the work that you've been working on. But with this particular show, it was already a sensation. And I just go back to the moment when we were doing our benefit last year. And Tom Viola, who is the head of Broadway Cares, said very clearly, you realize that you were the Hamilton of your times. And I didn't quite resonate with me until he actually said that. But, you know, we were in a hit show that we all we just had to show up and do our jobs as best we knew how. And as we progress forward in our lives, I think we take that sense of responsibility to the audience very seriously.

[12:55] Mike Abrams: Anyone else has have can add to that? Because I know Adria is working on some wonderful stuff. Christine's a prolific playwright right now.

[13:02] Adria Gibbs: I just love, you know, so good.

[13:05] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Well, actually, let's change gears. I have a very fun question for this group. And I did give you a little heads up. It's coming. So I'm excited to hear your answers. But with the show starting to reopen, I want to my knowledge of the show is the character analysis. So I know about your cats more than I know probably about anything else. And so I want to know if your cat, your character was going to be cast in one of the shows that's going to be reopening. Which show would they best fit in in this new kind of coming back world?

[13:40] Adria Gibbs: That was an easy one. Bombalurina would come back as Velma Kelly.

[13:45] Christine Toy Johnson: I mean.

[13:46] Adria Gibbs: Oh, yeah.

[13:47] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes.

[13:48] Adria Gibbs: Yes.

[13:49] Christine Toy Johnson: There's no other choice.

[13:51] Adria Gibbs: Yes. Perfect.

[13:52] Mike Abrams: Perfect.

[13:53] Christine Toy Johnson: I was thinking about that because I thought that Demeter would come back as one of the merry murderers.

[13:58] Adria Gibbs: But she would be the Hungarian because she's innocent and she's like so vulnerable and a man has completely destroyed her.

[14:08] Christine Toy Johnson: We will be in the same show again.

[14:09] Adria Gibbs: There we go.

[14:10] Christine Toy Johnson: That'd be fabulous.

[14:11] Adria Gibbs: I'd love it.

[14:33] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Reassuring everyone that it would be okay, and they would be fine. So that's where I put her.

[15:04] Anthony Vincent Bova: Yeah.

[15:07] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Jimmy, what about you? Oh, let's say Alonzo.

[15:12] Adrea Gibbs: Probably Chicago, so I would be in Chicago with Adria, Deborah.

[15:20] Jonathan S. Cerullo: There you go, let's see Plato, McCavity.

[15:25] Anthony Vincent Bova: Lion King, maybe Lion King.

[15:29] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Oh, that's good. Yeah, and tumble Brutus.

[15:32] Adrea Gibbs: Maybe a monkey in Wicked.

[15:44] Christine Toy Johnson: Shows Moulin Rouge, I think of Mads Arley. So maybe Moulin Rouge. I love it. I had a different answer for every single one of you, but I also know so little about most of these shows going so I had syllable. I had is the youngest daughter in Miss Saigon.

[16:01] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Okay, I had Alonzo as one of the Weasley brothers in the Harry Potter and the Cursed Child or in that world.

[16:07] Adrea Gibbs: I actually thought for a Bomb and Demeter. I had Chicago too, but I thought you could fit in Six as well.

[16:15] Anthony Vincent Bova: Angry Wives.

[16:20] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yeah, and then Jonathan, I struggle with Skimbleshanks a lot, but the whole train being built felt like an acid trip. So I think that's from my understanding, that's what Flying Over Sunset is.

[16:27] Adrea Gibbs: And so I thought Skimbleshanks should fit there.

[16:33] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yes, there you go, perfect. Now let's...

[16:37] Christine Toy Johnson: We're going to see the encore presentation of "Jellicle Songs for Jellicle Cats."

[16:42] Jonathan S. Cerullo: I would love to hear a little bit about how that came together because I have seen it. If I'm hoping some people have already seen it, but if you haven't, it's amazing to see what you put together in a virtual world. So tell me a little bit about that whole process and then what we're about to see.

[16:54] Christine Toy Johnson: Let me just jump in there for a quick hot second. So Christine wrote the script to the entire benefit that we did, and Jimmy was an associate producer on the project, and Avery did our graphic design, and Deb did all our social media. So we had absolutely no idea what the hell we were doing because, as Valerie from Broadway Care says, Jonathan, everyone's flying the plane and we're building the plane as we're flying it, so good luck.

[17:26] Jonathan S. Cerullo: It was a very complicated process, and I am on humbled knees, bended knees to thank Brian Ronan and Matthew Gurin, who really were the technicians behind that. But what we did was we laid down a vocal piano track. Austin Jetton, who you'll hear later, did a vocal track on top of that, then we added a conductor conducting on top of that. We sent that video to the entire company. Everyone filmed their individual segment, and then all of that was edited together in the brilliance of Brian Ronan and Matthew Gurin. So, you know, all of us are used to being in the room together, and when we had to repivot our performance and do this, this is what happened. And I think the end result is phenomenal. I don't know if anybody else has anything that they want to add to that, but that's sort of technically what we had to do. So Christine, Jimmy?

[18:24] Christine Toy Johnson: Well, don't forget having to relearn the song.

[18:35] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Christine George Johnson texts me and says, "Did we resist? Is this the right key?" And I'm like, "This is like the key we did this," and I was like, "Yeah, so there you go."

[18:52] Christine Toy Johnson: She goes, "How that well?" And you know what? When we did, when we first started the process, I think we first started talking about it in maybe April of last year, right?

[19:02] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yeah.

[19:09] Christine Toy Johnson: And this, so it was right in the beginning of our whole collective journey doing Zoom recording, virtual kind of logic. But it was fun, and everyone was so creative with how they showed up in their little box. I thought it was so great, and the editing and Brian Ronan, right? This is our two-word sound designer matching, you know, putting all the voices together and then Matthew editing it together. Yeah, it was really a lot. And I do know Deb, if you want to go back, we actually, I asked a few people to record things. Deb, go ahead and tell them what your experience was.

[19:53] Deborah Geneviere Athens: Which time did you tell me?

[19:55] Jonathan S. Cerullo: I was one of those people that also called Jonathan, and I was like, "Is this the right key? Because it's way too hard." And he's like, "Debra, got older." So even before I recorded my segment, I had to start getting back into vocal shape, and I was doing my vocal exercises, my scales and arpeggios like three weeks before I recorded because, you know, I haven't sung for years. I had to brush off the vocal cords. So I did it.

[20:22] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Undertaking to do this, especially if you're not in the business anymore, and I sent it to Jonathan. I thought, "Okay, that's done, it worked," and he says, "Sorry Deb, we need to have you do it all over again," because he wanted me in pitch black. So I had to find the darkest room in my house, and I live in a very bright neighborhood. I ended up doing it in the shower stall, and I made my husband...

[20:45] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Like, and he wanted to have the headlights, the car headlights, like Demeter does when she makes the first entrance. So I had to make my poor husband do the headlights over and over again. And so, you know, Jonathan gave him credit as well for a lighting design.

[21:05] Adrea Gibbs: Let me just add that Adria, if you actually, she holds up the book in homage to the idea that this was a poem with you. Adria, do you want to... and the whole front of that book was the logo to the show? So you want?

[21:20] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Really clever.

[21:22] Adrea Gibbs: And you were, I loved that.

[21:24] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. In my little tiny studio apartment that I was staying in in Santa Fe, New Mexico, that I had to like figure out how to clip curtains up and prop things so I could... It was just, I took pictures of what it looked like, what the room looked like after I was done because it was just, it looked like the junkyard. It was...

[21:45] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Well, let's show everybody. It was a mess, and I just want to show the world this.

[22:00] Christine Toy Johnson: Before you show that, I just want to say that what the intention of all of this was to celebrate this musical, this landmark musical that we did, so I hope your viewers will see that when you show this.

[22:15] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Welcome back! As you can see, we have a few more cast members here, so we're going to introduce them. I do want to mention for all the New Yorkers, it looks like Henry is slowly rolling in, so if you see some lightning, and we are starting to get a little storm, but we will charge forward. And so let's hear who you are and what cat you played.

[22:41] Amiee Turner: So, I'm Amiee Turner, I played Cassandra.

[22:49] Joanna Beck: I'm Joanna Beck, and I played Jellylorum and Griddlebone.

[22:54] Kari Nicolaisen: I'm Kari Nicolaisen, and I played Rumpelteazer, and then I left and came back as Bomb Ballerina.

[23:04] Anthony Vincent Bova: I'm Anthony Vincent Bova. I played Tumble Brutus.

[23:08] Austin Jetton: I am Austin Jetton. I played the Booth and Oh Deuteronomy cover.

[23:19] Jonathan S. Cerullo: And I'm Jonathan Cerullo. I played Skimbleshanks. It is just, I love all of these people. Oh my god, that's my Cassandra.

[23:27] Amiee Turner: Amy and I entered in one together, so just...

[23:30] Jonathan S. Cerullo: I'm excited for this. This is going to be a little bit of trivia. So this group is going to be trivia. We have, we're also going to have Alan jump in, who's going to keep score for us and judge and jury here. So here's how we're going to do this trivia of three of you, your names start with an A, so you'll be on a team, and then we'll have the three of you without your first name starting with M, and you will be on a team.

[24:04] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Okay, we have to work this out. Amy, Austin, and Anthony, okay, got it. Tony, Kari, and Joanna.

[24:13] Joanna Beck: Just in case.

[24:15] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yes, and so here's what we're going to do. I'm going to ask the question. We'll pop it in, and instead of yelling out the answer, I want you to yell "Jellicle" and raise your hand, and whoever says that first, Alan's going to call on you, and you'll get to answer the question. And then the winning team will introduce our next video. So much pressure.

[24:36] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Okay, let me know when you want question number one.

[24:40] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Question number one is, there is one actress who performed in the original Broadway production for the entire run, Bomb Ballerina.

[24:49] Amiee Turner: Jellicle!

[24:55] Jonathan S. Cerullo: She did play Bomb Ballerina. Do you know who the actress was, Andrea, maybe?

[25:00] Joanna Beck: Jellicle songs.

[25:03] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Wasn't it Marlena?

[25:04] Amiee Turner: Yes!

[25:06] Jonathan S. Cerullo: I think Austin wins. No, Austin gets that because he gave the name first. It is Marlena.

[25:19] Anthony Vincent Bova: And the reason why that I remember that, I'm general manager at a hotel up here, and her upstairs neighbor is at our hotel right now. So that was an easy one.

[25:31] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Can you imagine doing the show? I don't think she missed shows either, like never higher run.

[25:40] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Okay, question two. This one's a little bit harder. In the Japanese production of Cats, there is a male cat that fights in Growltiger's Last Stand, but he goes by two different names depending on the production. Can you name either of those names?

[25:51] Anthony Vincent Bova: That's a fun...

[25:54] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Oh!

[25:57] Anthony Vincent Bova: Jellicle!

[26:00] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yes, I can only think of Corico Pat.

[26:13] Jonathan S. Cerullo: That's why I mentioned them. Yeah, we didn't, they cut that fight from Growltiger's Last Stand.

[26:19] Amiee Turner: There was, who was that, Amy?

[26:22] Amiee Turner: Jellicle!

[26:25] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Isn't it Alonzo?

[26:32] Amiee Turner: Not Alonzo. It might be the Alonzo character, but they go by a different name. Yeah, no, I don't think we know that, do we?

[26:37] Jonathan S. Cerullo: It was created. It actually is a samurai fight. That is the party.

[26:45] Amiee Turner: So it was created for that production. So I will go to the answer. It is Gilbert or...

[26:52] Jonathan S. Cerullo: For heaven's sake.

[27:07] Jonathan S. Cerullo: We're going to go to an easier question number three. Yeah, between 2014 and 2016, this cat was changed to be a hip-hop rapping...

[27:15] Kari Nicolaisen: You are correct, Kari.

[27:25] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Thank you! What, Tony? I knew you always had that in you.

[27:33] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Okay, next question is, this cat was actually named after T.S. Eliot's cat. Oh, oh, I used to know this.

[27:44] Amiee Turner: Jellicle! Isn't it Electra?

[27:51] Jonathan S. Cerullo: It's not...

[27:54] Amiee Turner: Rumpelteazer!

[27:54] Jonathan S. Cerullo: All right, I give up. Grizabella!

[28:02] Amiee Turner: Closer!

[28:16] Jonathan S. Cerullo: No, I think it's Jellylorum.

[28:23] Jonathan S. Cerullo: There is a website called fanfiction.net which has over 3,200 cat fanfiction stories. Shockingly, none of them have been written by me. And when you sort by most popular, 10 of the top 20 stories are about which two cats being a romantic couple?

[28:35] Anthony Vincent Bova: It's definitely Cassandra and Gus.

[28:38] Amiee Turner: No!

[28:40] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Jellicle!

[28:43] Amiee Turner: Well, it's Demeter and...

[28:45] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Mechanically, no!

[28:49] Jonathan S. Cerullo: These are, this sounds like there's a lot more fanfiction needs to be written.

[28:49] Amiee Turner: Jellicle! Would it be Tumble Brutus and Victoria?

[29:07] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Jelly and Gus. No. No. Oh my gosh. Rum Tum. Is Rum Tum in it? There we go, we've got half.

[29:17] Amiee Turner: This is it. It's Rum Tum and Bum Tug and Mistoffelees. It's Tug and Mistoffelees. What? That's it.

[29:27] Jonathan S. Cerullo: You knew I was going to go there, but wow. What? A whole lot of those stories are about the two of them.

[29:35] Amiee Turner: Really? It's Tug and Mistoffelees. Okay. Okay. Tugofflees or Tuckstofflees, you can read a lot about. Tuckstofflees.

[29:45] Anthony Vincent Bova: Okay, this one, let's go away from the characters here a little bit. So, CATS won the Tony for Best Musical in 1983.

[29:53] Jonathan S. Cerullo: What were the other nominations that year for Best Musical? Miss Saigon. No, that was the wrong one.

[29:59] Amiee Turner: 1983. You know I could Google it right now. Oh yeah, easily. You can Google all of these very quickly. I was in elementary school.

[30:09] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Okay, come on Carrie. That was a really long time ago. That was a long time ago. Wow.

[30:19] Amiee Turner: I don't remember. I was thinking it was, actually I thought it was 81. No, it wasn't Chorus Line, of course. No, it can't be.

[30:29] Anthony Vincent Bova: It wasn't 42nd Street. It was Sophisticated Ladies. I would love to give you a clue, but I don't know anything about any of these three musicals.

[30:35] Jonathan S. Cerullo: I can't even help. Give me one of the three. I'll give you one of the three. It was Merlin. Oh, gosh. Okay.

[30:43] Amiee Turner: So, it was Doll's Life. It was not. Rags? It was not Rags. Why don't we pop them up? I'm curious because I don't know anything about this.

[30:53] Anthony Vincent Bova: Merrily, Merrily, Merrily. Losing the Night. Oh, My One and Only. Wow. Which one? It won, right? My One and Only. CATS won.

[31:01] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Why? It's a terrible show. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, my God. CATS won. Let's change gears a little bit.

[31:13] Amiee Turner: So, there is currently a production of CATS going on on the Royal Caribbean Cruise Oasis. Oh, no. No, really?

[31:19] Jonathan S. Cerullo: They've turned it into a 90-minute version, and so they cut one character, one, I would say, main character out. So, who had their song cut?

[31:27] Amiee Turner: Jenny Annie Dots. It's not Jenny Annie Dots. It was Gus. It's not Gus. I was going to say Gus. Who said that?

[31:37] Jonathan S. Cerullo: It's not Gus. I'm going to say Mungo Jerry and Rumple Teaser. No. That's not it. You're closer with Gus.

[31:48] Amiee Turner: Skimble Shanks. Not Skimble Shanks. It's not. Duke, because they called me. You guys. They can't cut old Duke. You're too important to the show.

[31:57] Jonathan S. Cerullo: They can't cut Gus. Oh, Bustopher Jones. There he is. They sent him to the cruise buffet, and he is not for me.

[32:07] Amiee Turner: He's happy. He's happy at the buffet. So, would you rather do the show on a rake or on the ocean?

[32:12] Jonathan S. Cerullo: On a rake in the ocean, Amy. Both, I'm sure. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[32:19] Amiee Turner: We are tied up. Tied up. All right. There's there are two questions left.

[32:23] Jonathan S. Cerullo: So, OK, there has been a few animated series that have made fun of cats in an episode.

[32:29] Anthony Vincent Bova: I know three. Can you name one show that has made fun of Jellicle South Park?

[32:35] Amiee Turner: South Park is not, but that Jellicle Simpsons, The Simpsons, The Simpsons, Family Guy, Family Guy.

[32:45] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yep. Family Guy. I know. Jonathan, you have to say those faster. BoJack Horseman.

[32:51] Anthony Vincent Bova: Yeah, I see that now. Yep. OK. We won. Did we win?

[32:57] Jonathan S. Cerullo: There's one more question. OK, one more question.

[33:00] Amiee Turner: I think this one's this one's a rumor. So I'm going off of what the rumor says, which is that this cat was chosen for the Heaviside Lair in the Jellicle Ball before the one the audience sees.

[33:15] Jonathan S. Cerullo: The cat was chosen for the Heaviside Lair. So they've been reborn in your production.

[33:19] Amiee Turner: Gus, I mean, Old Dude. It is not Old Dude, it is not Gus.

[33:27] Jonathan S. Cerullo: I mean, I meant Old Dude.

[33:30] Amiee Turner: Mungus Trap. No, he's too young. Mungus Trap. No, it's a good guess.

[33:35] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Macavity. It's not Macavity. I have no idea.

[33:40] Amiee Turner: I'll give you a clue. Alonzo. It is a female. I'll give that clue.

[33:44] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Jelly Laura. Jelly Laura.

[33:47] Amiee Turner: Getting close. Jannie? Jannie Dots.

[33:51] Jonathan S. Cerullo: You've mentioned almost everybody else except for the choice.

[33:54] Amiee Turner: Cassandra. No, it's Victoria. Not Victoria.

[33:59] Jonathan S. Cerullo: OK, let's go through everyone.

[34:03] Amiee Turner: Mungo Jerry. No, I said it's a female.

[34:06] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Mungo Jerry.

[34:08] Amiee Turner: Oh, and it's not Cillabub? Not Cillabub.

[34:11] Jonathan S. Cerullo: I don't know. This is for the win. Whoever's going to get this right.

[34:14] Amiee Turner: So just it's a tie. We win. Just what's the answer?

[34:17] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Bomb Bell Arena. Bomb Bell Arena.

[34:22] Amiee Turner: Wow. This is the this is the context is that Bomb Bell Arena was Dick Whittington's cat, like they say in the Jellicle songs. That's right.

[34:29] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Because of her heroics, she was chosen the year before. And she is now back in her next life.

[34:36] Amiee Turner: Oh, that's me.

[34:39] Jonathan S. Cerullo: So, Alan, who took the victory?

[34:43] Amiee Turner: So that's a that's a three to three split down.

[34:46] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Oh, no. Sorry, Austin. Sorry. Sorry. Austin is. Yeah.

[34:49] Amiee Turner: Oh, no. It's a four to two because, Austin, you got it wrong, right?

[34:53] Jonathan S. Cerullo: So it's four to two.

[34:57] Amiee Turner: All right. Thank you. Thanks, Anthony.

[35:01] Anthony Vincent Bova: Yeah, I'm so glad I was able to really help our team.

[35:05] Amiee Turner: But can we do one thing before? Can we can we do our. Yes, let's do it before we go into the naming of cats.

[35:12] Jonathan S. Cerullo: What's our surprise? So before.

[35:15] Amiee Turner: So before they're going to tell you about why we did naming of cats.

[35:18] Jonathan S. Cerullo: And actually, everybody who's on this call partook in naming of cats.

[35:23] Amiee Turner: And Kari actually was the director of it. And she can talk to you about how we came across that.

[35:28] Jonathan S. Cerullo: But as I was getting ready for tonight, I came across something.

[35:31] Amiee Turner: And I know that this is that that we are doing this as a fundraiser for Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS and ultimately the Actors Fund.

[35:39] Jonathan S. Cerullo: So what I would like to put up for a bid of five hundred dollars.

[35:45] Amiee Turner: Is our company's souvenir program, which has absolutely everybody who is in this video in this podcast tonight.

[35:50] Jonathan S. Cerullo: And I could go through this and show you all of the pictures that that they are there. There's there's Demeter, Debbie Genevieve.

[36:03] Amiee Turner: There's Leslie Ellis. There's me. Thank you. There's there's Tony Boba right there.

[36:09] Jonathan S. Cerullo: So the first person who puts up and here is Amy Turner.

[36:15] Amiee Turner: If you can see that fabulous extension that this thing dead.

[36:21] Jonathan S. Cerullo: And the first person who donates five hundred dollars to Broadway Cares dot org forward slash Cats 2020 will receive this souvenir program for our from our company.

[36:38] Amiee Turner: OK, and that's my promise to to Broadway Cares.

[36:42] Jonathan S. Cerullo: All right. Now, thank you for that.

[36:45] Amiee Turner: The A. Tell me about the naming of cats. What are we about to watch?

[36:51] Kari Nicolaisen: Oh, OK. All right. Jonathan.

[36:54] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yeah. Jonathan asked me to kind of help him come up with the concept and choose the you know, the participators.

[37:02] Kari Nicolaisen: And I personally love this part of the show. We get to stand still, but it's it's it was just like the lighting.

[37:10] Kari Nicolaisen: And I'm getting the chills thinking about it and the and the poem. And it was a really mystical, cool, dark, sexy kind of part of the show.

[37:22] Jonathan S. Cerullo: And so we're like, well, how are we going to do this in our homes, in our living rooms, on Zoom? And I came up with candles.

[37:30] Kari Nicolaisen: And we originally wanted smoke. I wanted smoke. I wanted steam just to make it look, you know, mysterious. And so we kind of got that right, Jonathan. And then we started running with that.

[37:46] Jonathan S. Cerullo: And then I just wanted it to be very odd and very and very peculiar. Be entertaining, you know, and try to and I think everybody really rose to the occasion and and had fun with it, as you will be as you'll see when we watch the clip. And it was broadcast on Halloween. So it was really fun to.

[38:06] Kari Nicolaisen: Yeah, that's right. You know, kind of just do something very theatrical.

[38:10] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Yeah. You know, as Kari said, kind of spooky and just just fun to kind of celebrate, you know, Halloween.

[38:18] Kari Nicolaisen: Well, it's always fun to be weird and strange. I like to do that as often as possible. Right. And the intention was to do a little homage to T.S. Eliot and the source material is that these were poems written for children. And so we wanted to sort of honor honor that. And I thought it was fabulous that we got Andrew Lloyd Webber's permission to do the music from the show.

[38:42] Jonathan S. Cerullo: But when I said I want to do Naming of Cats just as an oratorical piece, there was a dead silence in the meeting and they were like, um, you have to go to the T.S. Eliot estate for that.

[38:54] Kari Nicolaisen: So we got permission from the T.S. Eliot estate to do what you are about to see. And every one of these human beings took part in that, which I'm grateful for. So.

[39:02] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Well, let's see this video.

[39:10] Amiee Turner: That is eerie and haunting and a great transition to talk about Grisabella, who is the jellicle choice here. So welcome. We have three Grisabellas here.

[39:22] Heidi Stallings: So why don't you introduce yourself? And maybe since we all know your Grisabellas, what production that you played Grisabella in?

[39:26] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: I'm Lynn and I was in Cats 4. I was standby for Grisabella and Bootsinger.

[39:34] Leslie Ellis: I'm Leslie and I was Grisabella in the third national.

[39:50] Jonathan S. Cerullo: And Heidi, do we have you here?

[39:54] Heidi Stallings: I can't hear you, Heidi.

[40:02] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Let's see if we can get this troubleshoot real quick.

[40:06] Amiee Turner: OK.

[40:10] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Can you hear us, Heidi?

[40:14] Heidi Stallings: OK, she can hear us, but she can't. Do you need to go to the preferences on your computer and select headphones?

[40:22] Amiee Turner: Yes, Heidi.

[40:26] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Oh, you can hear. OK.

[40:30] Amiee Turner: Heidi, we can't hear you, but we can see you.

[40:38] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Is her mute button on?

[40:42] Amiee Turner: She's not muted, so I think maybe we'll...

[40:54] Jonathan S. Cerullo: OK. There we go.

[40:58] Heidi Stallings: I can't hear you very well. Hold on a second.

[41:02] Jonathan S. Cerullo: OK, we can hear you now, though. Can you hear us?

[41:06] Heidi Stallings: Thank you so much for your patience.

[41:10] Jonathan S. Cerullo: That's the world we live in now with the tech.

[41:14] Heidi Stallings: And I have a unique relationship with this show because I've done three. I did the first national. They put me in for the last six weeks of the run in Boston so I could learn the role.

[41:30] Heidi Stallings: And then I went into the third national and then I went into Broadway.

[41:34] Jonathan S. Cerullo: Amazing.

[41:38] Heidi Stallings: It was a gift to have that experience and to work with so many incredible artists and also creators.

[41:46] Amiee Turner: Well, I am thrilled because this is the majority of what I've spent my time debating, and I always love talking to Grizabella.

[41:54] Jonathan S. Cerullo: So we're going to talk, probably a conversation you've never had, about Grizabella's backstory and why she's picked. So I want to start by hearing from you. Let's talk about her story.

[42:06] Heidi Stallings: I want to know what there's not a lot of context clues for the audience about her life before she leaves the tribe. So we just know she's the glamour cat. When you performed as Grizabella, what was your Grizabella pre-leaving backstory?

[42:18] Heidi Stallings: Well, for me, I can speak, I base my Grizabella on three characters, Blanche Dubois, Norma Desmond, and Vivian Lee in Ship of Fools. I don't remember that character she plays, she does this crazy little dance on the ship. And Grizabella, I remember I think it was Janine Lavullo told me when I went into the first national to learn the part, she said, Heidi, they'll tell you everything she isn't and nothing that she is. So what they told me was she's not dead, she's not dying, she's not old, and she's not a bad lady. And so I just think that she was a very proud person, probably very vain. And I know my, it's my first understanding that you experienced it first in the revival and then you saw the feature film.

And I remember you saying that she thought maybe she was kicked out, or that was a rumor. She was kicked out? And I was always under the impression that she chose to leave and she wanted a better life. And so it was her choice to walk out on her trial, which is a very difficult thing to do, and I think that's a lot of people don't realize.

[43:41] Christine Toy Johnson: The reason why there's so many conflicting feelings when she comes back and why that entrance that Andrew wrote and Trevor staged and Gillian worked on is so powerful when she makes that first entrance because as Grizabella, as my colleagues know, you have 15 minutes to tell her story and that first minute you're on that stage, you don't know what you're doing. It's 15 minutes.

[44:06] Amiee Turner: And then you knit in the dressing room.

[44:15] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes, absolutely. So, okay, so she voluntarily, yeah, so she voluntarily left. I mean, I agree with that because I kind of likened it to people running off to Los Angeles in the early days of colored films and, you know, wanting to be a star and, you know, leaving the tribe to me was always just going off to find your fame and fortune or whatever. And yeah, and then, you know, stuff as stuff is in showbiz didn't work out and she's back because she's, you know, she's coming home and she is desperate, truly desperate.

[45:10] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: I agree. I agree. That's where I brought Grizabella from, that she always had this dream. She knew she had this talent and she wanted to go off and just live her life and I guess she believed all the hype that, oh, you're pretty, you can sing or you can dance. And so she went out to try to see if she could do it. And she got beat up, got beat up by the business, everything. And she came back and went, but from my perspective, her leaving, she left a lot of unfinished relationships and you build those relationships around the different cats. And when she got beat up and she came back home looking for just a little, a hug, you know, just a touch, just for somebody to accept her because she was not accepted where she really, really, where her heart was.

[46:19] Leslie Ellis: Well, I think that's a really interesting piece of this is that there's a lot of rumors about the relationships that she leaves, so potentially children left behind or lovers left behind. Is that, I see you shaking your head. Is that not?

[46:33] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: I think lovers. I don't think children.

[46:35] Leslie Ellis: No children.

[46:36] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: I don't.

[46:37] Leslie Ellis: So not Bon, Demeter or Victoria. Those are the three that I remember.

[46:39] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: No, I don't personally, but that's again, you can make that backstory up as how you want to make that up. It's my feeling that I walk in and the kittens don't know me, but they've heard about me and they're curious about me. So they're kind of like, who is that? And the teenagers are like, oh, it's her. And then the older ones are like, well, and they've heard about me. So there's a past. Trevor Nunn actually told us on Broadway that it's like there's a big party going on and the phonograph is going and there's a record on the record player. And the minute she walks in, it's like somebody picks up the needle off the record. And it's this moment like, oh, there she is.

[47:23] Christine Toy Johnson: Right. Right. So that moment is electric. So my feeling was that I had a very strong relationship with Lucas Trev and I had the relationship with him, so I could go at him, I could confront him and say, how can you treat me like this? So that was, I mean, it's so layered and I think it's so interesting and so fun to listen to the earlier actors talking about it, because it was indeed quite the event when it happened. And I love hearing all these, like the lore and the rumors. I think it's so interesting because it tells you there's something about the show that connects people or intrigues them.

[48:09] Leslie Ellis: It is. I think the beauty of the show is that it is so almost undefined in some ways, while having a lot of definition. And so that allows you to kind of fill in blanks as you need. And not just as an audience member, but it sounds like even as cast members, because as I've talked to more cast members, there's people who have played it certain ways and somebody else has played this relationship and there's a little bit of difference every single time I talk to somebody.

[48:34] Christine Toy Johnson: So now let's kind of dive into You Come Back. Why do you believe Old Deuteronomy chooses Grizabella?

[48:44] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: I think Old Deuteronomy was there. I think he was there when she was growing up. He watched her grow up and he saw all of her talent and he saw that she had the courage to even come back. Because most people, I mean, maybe she was like the prodigal son, you know? And I think there was a connection there, because maybe he was one of the people who encouraged her in her abilities.

[49:21] Leslie Ellis: And maybe he was the one who said, well, go try it, you know?

[49:28] Christine Toy Johnson: So like you said, lots of backstories.

[49:30] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: So guilt, you're saying?

[49:31] Leslie Ellis: Yeah.

[49:32] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Yeah.

[49:33] Leslie Ellis: Let me reframe this question a little bit. Why do you think Old Deuteronomy chooses every year?

[49:44] Christine Toy Johnson: It's how well people present their stories. It's how strongly the passion comes through their story. And so all three of you firmly believe that Grizabella's passionate story is the one from that year. I already see yeses.

[50:00] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Well, I think the story is that she suffered the most. She suffered, and she left, and it took a lot of courage to come back. And the thing about Grizabella, she just doesn't leave after she gets scratched. She keeps coming back, and she's determined, and she's resolute. And once she finally says what she's been through, and then once she finally says, she drops her artifice and she drops her pride and her ego, and she lets go of it and says, touch me. I need your help. That's when it all changes.

[50:36] Leslie Ellis: So I think that's why.

[50:38] Christine Toy Johnson: Yeah, we've got a song.

[50:40] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: That's why.

[50:41] Leslie Ellis: Yeah, I think so.

[50:42] Christine Toy Johnson: We've got a song. The receiving line is so powerful. When you do that receiving line, everybody is on the same page about this. When she leaves after touch me, when she gets up to leave, there's sort of a pride, you know, I came in here with my head down, but I'm going to leave with my head up, whether you touch me or not. And then she feels that, that, you know, what Sylaba is. She is tough.

[51:16] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Yeah.

[51:17] Leslie Ellis: Yeah. I think so. She's not just broken. She's super, super tough. And she has had to learn to be tough and fight to survive.

[51:28] Christine Toy Johnson: Yeah. I've been knocked down before, and I've gotten up before.

[51:32] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Yeah.

[51:33] Leslie Ellis: Exactly. I love the passionate defense of Grizabella as someone who spent many episodes arguing against this. Here's my kind of, I think you're all on the same page that Grizabella is your angelical choice. So I'm going to ask this a slightly different way. If Grizabella doesn't come back in the year that we see, who goes?

[51:56] Anthony Vincent Bova: Gus.

[51:57] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Gus.

[51:58] Anthony Vincent Bova: Gus.

[51:59] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: 100%.

[52:00] Leslie Ellis: With that in mind, why not Gus over Grizabella?

[52:05] Anthony Vincent Bova: Why not Grizabella the next year? Gus had a career. Gus had everything he endeavored to do. He's old, but he has friends.

[52:16] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: It's jelly.

[52:17] Anthony Vincent Bova: He has his friends. He has his memories. And she's the one who's just, just the most desperate and the most in need. And I think Deuteronomy knows that. I think he knows that. He's the all-knowing.

[52:31] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: I agree.

[52:33] Leslie Ellis: Well, it's kind of the show doesn't have an arc without her. There's no tension. She doesn't show up.

[52:42] Christine Toy Johnson: Right. Right?

[52:45] Leslie Ellis: So it's kind of, that's what really kind of drives it. And so I find that so interesting that when, because Trevor and Julian and Andrew didn't know what to do. And then they had the unpublished poem and they went, oh, we've got the through line. And then the grapsody on a windy night, a remark is, those words are right out of that unpublished poem. All of it is there. So it's just thrilling to, I wish I was in the room when that happened, when they realized that they had the arc of the show, because the show would be very different without her, right?

[53:20] Christine Toy Johnson: Definitely.

[53:21] Leslie Ellis: You would follow more of a Macavity as the bad guy to create your villain story. I'm working on cats too. Don't worry. I'm working on how to rewrite some of this.

[53:30] Christine Toy Johnson: I would love to hear just, you know, Memory is the iconic song from the show and, you know, you all get to belt it out. And as you said, 15 minutes, what is that like? Almost leaving everything you have on stage, every single performance that you get to do it.

[53:48] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Rewarding. It's exhausting and terrifying. I have to say that. Because I was on the road and we did one week stops a lot. And we never did any split weeks, but we did one week stops. And I was 24 years old with my first job. And I was just, oh my God, the whole show is on my shoulders. I didn't drink coffee. I didn't drink alcohol. I didn't speak. I was a nervous wreck when I left that show because it's the whole, you know, thing that everybody's coming to hear. And it's not an easy song to sing.

[54:27] Leslie Ellis: It's not.

[54:28] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Agreed. It's not an easy song to sing eight shows a week. It's not.

[54:31] Leslie Ellis: It's not.

[54:32] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: So that's my experience. I loved it. It was a blessing. I had the best time ever. But also, that's what I was thinking. God, I hope it comes out.

[54:45] Leslie Ellis: Me too.

[54:46] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Me too. You have to belt that and belt it and go back up and go back up and then you have to jump at the end.

[54:52] Leslie Ellis: Yeah.

[54:53] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Oh, my word. And you have a chore by then to sit around. So you now are in your room and you are vocalizing again.

[55:03] Leslie Ellis: Yeah.

[55:04] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: You're coming up again to make sure you got the E flat. You got those trills going and everything.

[55:09] Leslie Ellis: Oh, goodness.

[55:10] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: It was a lot.

[55:12] Leslie Ellis: Yeah.

[55:14] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: I felt, because everything was building up to that one moment, that one moment, and you get up when you hit that touch me and then you hit that last note and you realize, oh, my gosh, I did it. You're shaking and you're like, okay, my vocal cords are in the pit right now, but I'm okay.

[55:44] Leslie Ellis: Yeah.

[55:45] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: And it was just, because all the emotions, if somebody cut you off on the road or anything, you could put it all in that one moment and just leave it out there and give it to the audience and do with it as you please. But this is how I felt. I did it for eight years. So I did cats for eight years and it was just wonderful. I remember when Stanley Lebowski died of a heart attack in mid-run and we were in Dallas and I remember when they told us right before the show and we all just went out on stage and we were stunned. But it was, as you said, Lynn, it was something that I could visit in whatever I was feeling at the time. I could put it into that.

[56:46] Leslie Ellis: Yeah.

[56:47] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Lynn, it sounds like the world would be a better place if we all channeled our anger and emotion and just sing Memory every night and you'll be much happier.

[56:56] Leslie Ellis: Yeah, you can use everything in the day.

[56:59] Lyn MacDonald-Sigman: Sure.

[57:01] Leslie Ellis: That's your mantra at the end of the day. Just sit in your yoga pose and belt out Touch Me and you're good.

[57:10] Christine Toy Johnson: That's hilarious. I think that is probably the best way possible to end this. I appreciate your defense of Grizabella. I'm not ready to rename my show, but I do love always hearing from you and thank you all for being here. To everyone watching, again, thank you for joining us tonight as we welcome back Broadway. Go see a show, whether it's Broadway, a tour, a regional production. Support the arts in this amazing community of people. And then just a quick reminder for everyone here, you can find The Wrong Cat Died on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere you listen to podcasts on Twitter and Instagram at TheWrongCatDied or the website TheWrongCatDied.com. And a huge thank you again to the Broadway Podcast Network, Broadway Cares, Equity Fights Johnson's Rural, and the entire cast members, everyone who is here today to participate. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you and Abby.

[58:05] Mike Abrams: Absolutely. Thank you, Mike, for your passion. Thank you, everybody. Have a great night.