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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpn.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm a wrong one died. I'm a wrong one died. Welcome to

[0:28] Mike Abrams: the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing you hopefully have been able to check out her one woman show, walking with bubbles, which is currently at the MRT in New York. But before that, she was Grizabella on multiple productions of cats, including the original Broadway production and the 2016 Broadway revival. So welcome Jessica, indeed. And

[0:50] Mike Abrams: excited. I always love talking to Grizabella, because my thesis statement is anti grizzabella, and they always make really kind of fun. But also it's it's fun to see performances from Grizzlies, and I know you got to do it in multiple situations. My first question is always, did you see the 1998 movie? But you started on the US tour like months before that came out. So what was your introduction to cats before you went on tour?

[1:17] Speaker 2: My introduction was to cats was when I took piano lessons as a kid, and it was the memory, was the first song I ever learned how to plan the piano Wow. And so that was the first introduction. So I just, I've always loved that song, but I never knew what it was. And then when I was, you know, really, maybe in grade school, maybe a freshman in high school. I saw the tour come through Cincinnati, Ohio, and you know, at intermission, you got to go up on stage, and older Deuteronomy is just sitting there. And so my mom and I went up on stage, and I just turned around in the theater in Cincinnati, Ohio music hall where where it was playing, and I saw that perspective of what it's like to be on a grand stage, rather than like a high school gym stage or something. And it just took my breath away. And that really just made me love the show even more, because it that show got me onto stage. You know what I mean was

[2:32] Mike Abrams: that one of the first ones you'd seen that theater, or you other stuff, and this is just like a memorable one from childhood, like

[2:39] Speaker 2: I saw the Nutcracker at that theater. I mean, my parents always took us to shows, but I'd never been on a grand, big, legitimate stage like that until I saw cat. Yeah,

[2:53] Mike Abrams: that's a cool part of the show because, you know, you get that intermission and go up and now it's like, take a selfie and, you know, you get through your phone, but, but it is a, yeah, it's your first chance to kind of turn around and see the whole crowd still there. And I love hearing too, because I talked to so many performers who have been on the show and a lot of dancers. And I as a, not a dancer or singer, but I my mom's a music teacher and a piano teacher, and memory is something I had heard, is the only thing I knew about cats going in. And so it's kind of a it's cool to hear you say that before you even saw it. You learn memory on the piano, and then that's kind of the the real introduction. So you go on tour, you're part of the cat's chorus. You're covering for Isabella, uh huh. What is like? How is that first introduction, of being the other side of it, especially the rehearsal process and learning this kind of chaotic story, like, what is, what do they tell you? What was that professional experience like?

[3:47] Speaker 2: Well, when I went on tour, so that was like my first, my first life of being a cat. You know? It was hyper focused on being really perfect at the the songs, because everyone on stage is working their tail off, dancing and singing at the same time, so they really needed a boost of vocals, of because the music is difficult, it's as challenging, challenging as the dancing is, it's, it's a big saying, and it's sung the entire show, like, there's, there's only the ball really, that that you get to just only dance, you know, everything else They're singing and dancing. So it was very hyper focused on making sure that all of our harmonies were tight and that our diction was well, even though we're singing poetry, we still have to get the words across to the audience so that they can, like, make up some story in their head of what's going. Going on. But so that was like step one, and I didn't, I came in as a replacement, so I didn't like start rehearsals with everyone. But while I was on rehearsals, we had, or in rehearsals, we had, oh, my God, his name is fleeing from my brain. David can't remember. He was from London. He came over and we had our first kitty cat class where we were meowing and learning to be cats on stage. And he took it very seriously, which kind of gave us all permission to as well take it very seriously, because if we don't believe that we are cats, then the audience will never believe that, and the audience will never get that opportunity to, like, dive into the world and go there, Because if we're commenting on, oh yeah, we're a cat, then it's just it doesn't work. We have to be the cat.

[6:07] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's a, it's a true character. Like, you have to be almost method acting your way through, because there's so many emotions that are built on it. And then it's also, it's a, it's a loose and weird story. And so it's like, you kind of have to lean into some of the poetry turned into a plot line. And so the aspect is more of it, but yeah, you now go on. So then you make your Broadway debut as Grizabella, correct? So you go from tour, and this is the truest of all big stages at the Winter Garden. Yes. What is that like? The you know, that moment?

[6:40] Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So again, I was doing that was a standby. I was in the cats chorus, singing in the booth, off stage every night. And one night, the stage manager came to me and said, You're going to be going on next week. And I I literally got tears in my eyes, because that was my Broadway debut. My Broadway debut was on stage at the Winter Garden Theater singing memory like one of the most iconic roles ever written in the musical theater catalog, was my Broadway debut, and I was nervous even coming into the company, because at that time, it was the longest running show on Broadway, so I was worried that the company was going to be really jaded and not very welcoming to me. But I was completely wrong. They were the most loving company. They all loved the show. It was a very healthy theater. It was a very healthy cast. Everyone did their job. Everyone did their job well, and it was very supportive there. So when I made my Broadway debut, you know, I had Marlena Danielle, who was still in the company, playing bomb ballerina. I walk on stage for memory, and she hisses at me. And it literally scared me. I was already scared, but it scared me and but it was in character. It was just, I never could have dreamed it would be that it was, it was absolutely wonderful.

[8:21] Mike Abrams: It's, you know, it's with the character of Grizabella, being supposed to be shunned and not accepted to the end. It takes, like, you know, you're all professional actors and performers, but like, it takes that acting thing. And I've heard some really crazy stories about some producers, directors who have done some interesting things with Grizabella to, like, try to build that like, oh, us, us against mindset. But I love hearing, yeah, I've heard a couple, um, but I love hearing that's like, your cast just welcomes you in, and then you go on and do your jobs as professionals and like, can have that moment of acting. Of this. We don't like Grizabella, but it's, it's fun to hear, because I do think, like, when I think about as a non actor, as someone who doesn't do this, it's like, how much into that character do you get? And like, of the personalities, and having interviewed now 120 plus cast members of this show, it's fascinating to hear, like, the personalities of some of the characters kind of bleeding into the answers I get from the actual actor. And I'm like, Oh, that was that's very much how your character would answer that question. And so it is interesting to hear that like that didn't happen here. You had, like a very welcoming, as it should be, a welcoming and loving cast that brings you in and welcomes you in, even though, the minute they get on stage, they got to kind of hiss at you and shun you until they welcome you back at the end.

[9:34] Speaker 2: Well, exactly because, if I mean that, the the cats are a tribe, right? They're a family, and Grizabella wasn't always an outcast, you know, she was it. She was the star, and something happened where she was universally shunned, but there's always room for forgiveness. Uh, even in the most horrible situations, there's always room for forgiveness. And I think that's where this show succeeds, is because audience members, they may not know what the hell is going on at all, but they know that this one cat is shun but that at the end, she's brought back into the tribe, and everyone can relate to that moment of of atonement and and forgiveness, you know, totally,

[10:30] Mike Abrams: totally. This is not bowing well for what is going to be my final, final question, just the way you've already explained this. I know we're where we're headed. Um, I want to ask, though, quickly, before we get into a little bit about the character and some of that moments of like she was a tribe. I want to ask a couple questions there, but you also got to do the 2016 revival, yeah, with different choreography, a little bit of change. I know that you bridged Leo and Mamie as Grizabella. How, how was that process differ when you've done a show and you have this, like it's still the same show, but there are enough differences to make it unique. Like, what is that experience like for you? Having kind of done both,

[11:08] Speaker 2: it was very interesting. I would say there was some struggle between, let's just say, The Old Guard and the new guard of cat Andy really wanted to bring the show into the present landscape of musical theater, and he had a lot of walls, and he got a lot of no's, but he was given the space to try out a lot of choreography, and there was a lot of choreography that was absolutely breathtaking, and a lot of storytelling that was absolutely spectacular, that only saw the light of day in the rehearsal room because the original creators wanted more. They, they kind of said they wanted it to be updated, but when it came down to it, they, I don't think they were quite ready to really hand over their baby, which I can understand. You know, it brought them its success for many decade, but they weren't quite ready to let it sort of evolve. So as a cast, it was hard in that we had to learn a lot of things, and then we had to leave, leave them and then go back to but Andy was able to get in enough new choreography, I think that it gave it sort of a splash of relevancy that it sort of needed. Yeah, it's

[12:57] Mike Abrams: so interesting to hear you say it's because I didn't see any production prior to 2016 so I didn't have the like, I'm not in the Old Guard, and there's a group of fans that the original is it, and nothing else, sure, no changes. And that Sure, I also kind of have thought a little bit about, I've talked to when they did the hip hop Tugger, which was the last kind of big change they made that was fairly did not land as well. And so I do wonder if there is some of this, like the last big modernization change they tried did not land. Well, here's now another version of it that there's a little bit of protection, but my familiarity is with just a new version. And Andy's, you know extremely well, you know, well regarded and talented and all this stuff. So it is fascinating to hear it from the fan perspective too. Sure, there is a big thing, but from your side, it is, you know, it's interesting to hear from you that you tried a lot of things in rehearsal and had to find that balance of what made it on stage to still kind of honor the original, but still make enough tweaks. And as someone who didn't know much, I thought it was, I loved the 2016 version. I thought was great. So, um, but it is, uh, it's an interesting debate. It's been 40 something years. So there's a lot of you know, there's, there's discourse across all of it. Sure, yeah. So let's talk about your Grizabella theories here. You know? Okay, where do you think she goes when she leaves? Like, what is did you have to tell yourself a backstory before you come back out and sing memory of, like, why you were gone and to bring that back to stage. Like, how much of that goes into your acting? How much did you think about over these years of getting to do this show? That of here's what was Grizabella is like, not just the 15 minutes you could have heard on stage. Here's everything else you needed.

[14:41] Speaker 2: So, okay, I'll ask, I'll answer your first question, first, which was, where do you think she goes? I I think she goes to some sort of afterlife, and I think she gets to be reborn. Sorry,

[14:57] Mike Abrams: let me, let me rephrase that. Where do you think she goes before she comes back to memory, because she was part of the tribe and, like, shunned, yeah, and comes back right,

[15:06] Speaker 2: yeah. I think she goes down like a path of destruction, okay? I think she sort of probably got some success, got some got, like a bit on on a high horse, maybe, and she was probably universally loved by her tribe, and she probably liked the power, and she probably got drunk on the power and started acting destructively to the people that loved her and herself, and she probably did some things that were like, horrible, you know, and they, they probably the cats probably were like, enough. You're a mess. Get out of here. Go clean up your life. One thing that hasn't

[15:58] Mike Abrams: been said, but that you just described to me, and I've just thought of it now, and which is crazy, can anytime I have a new thought, it's kind of blows my mind at this point in doing this podcast. But it seems like Grizabella was the you had a you had a band, and she was he wanted to go out on her solo career, but it didn't work.

[16:13] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean maybe, yeah, I can see that. I just, I really see what the way I take the character is that, um, she had deep bonds. She had, you know, family in that tribe. And I think she, like, I think she did some people wrong. I think she hurt some people, and I think she was disrupted. And I think, like, they probably said, Get the hell out of here. Like you are a bad person. Now, You're a bad cat. You're a bad cat, yeah? Like, and so then she probably did say, Well, I'm gonna do this on my own. And then she couldn't,

[16:54] Mike Abrams: and then she that's why she comes back. Did you think about any you know, you said family. And I know cats is like, it's, it's the family tree's loose. So there's no, like, real way to answer that. But did you think about this? Was my daughter, this moment with Victoria, or my sister bomb ballerina? Like, did you go through any of those moments as you're doing this? Or is this something that you kind of just, you create over time?

[17:17] Speaker 2: I think it's, I think it honestly, because I've done several productions and several different castmates, I think it depends on who you're working with. I think there always is a bond between Grizabella and Victoria. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like it's a daughter thing. Sometimes I feel like it. Victoria represent like forgiveness. She, she represents an emotion that she is showing to the tribe, that she can show everyone with that touch, that we all can, we all can get there. You know, it's, it's interesting, because everyone likes to, like, have, like, a set Pat way of like, you know, manga strap and Grizabella were together, and now they're not. And I don't know if it's that, like, I almost think, like, they could be brother and sister, you know, that it might not even be that they were a couple and they had kittens. I just see it as a family, and it depends on who I'm working with. That's the beauty of cats. Where you find those like eye gazes betting luck, because it can be different people, different cat.

[18:40] Mike Abrams: It's fascinating, because it's why this, I think I'm able to still do so many episodes, is that there is no consistent answer, and every fan has an opinion. And I've, I've created some of that discourse on accident, on social media by posting something, and someone's like, Oh no, bomb Valerian and Demeter are definitely sisters. And I'm like, oh, a lot of people think they're not sisters, and they're saying a 5050, split when you voted out. And so it is, I think the because so much of it is dancing, staging, and then the interactions that you all have to your point of who is, who are you with on stage at that moment is what creates those and when you have, again, 40 years of this, there's a different version of this happening so many different times. So absolutely,

[19:23] Speaker 2: because, like, the point is to tell the story. I mean, TS Eliot wrote these poems for his nieces and nephews, yep, to, like, give them something to do while the adults could, like, do adult things. You know, there was no television or, you know, so he, he like, made these stories for them so they don't necessarily connect, but we made them connect, you know, and that's our job as actors, to tell the story, to find those connections, so that the audience can, I mean, isn't that? So. Great about cats, like, there's so many different theories. That just means that the story is just like, timeless, and there's so much that can be mined from it.

[20:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I've compared it a little bit to like, I think the part that I like is it's almost Harry Potter ish, and that a world was created, and in that world there's a lot of ways you can go. You can add in a new character if you needed to, and you could write it. That's why there's so much fan fiction, honestly, yeah, there's a Tumblr that does interactions together, because this really creative, unique tribe was built. And it they didn't say a lot of stuff out loud. The 2019 movie tried to add some of that stuff. But, like, ultimately, there isn't this, like, neat and tidy storyline is one or two mo like it's moments and then there's an ending, but it is because it's poems and it was just entertainment, and they weaved together beautiful music and dancing to to create this thing. And it's why everyone who dislikes it, they can't give a real answer on why they dislike it. It's just like not their cup of tea, and that's okay, but it's it's a fascinating difference. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. I want to pivot. It's gonna be hard pivot, because it's gonna be hard to go from from cats to walking with bubbles, because they're very different shows, but I got to see it this past weekend, an incredible performance. Thank you. I want to just the first thing I want to ask is, how did you decide to tackle the topic, knowing that it's such a personal story, it's about your life with your kid, and everything going on that surrounds that it's very emotional. How did you decide that this was like the one woman show topic you wanted to do.

[21:42] Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think. I just decided it just sort of happened. And actually, the first version I wrote was a multi character, and I sort of gave. Well, I didn't sort of give. I gave it to my close circle and had them read it, and every single person said to me, separately, you've written a one person show. Get rid of this other character. And I was like, oh, no, no, I can't do a one person show. And they're like, No, you wrote it like you can do this. So then I started thinking, like, do I want to do this, like, it's it, it's a big topic. It's like, there's a lot of impactful issues that I am writing about. And I thought I became an actress because I have this gift of being able to tell a story, and I think anyone in the arts has this gift and this calling to create these worlds where the audience member can kind of suspend their own life and go to into these worlds and be touched, or learn something new, or have sudden questions that then they leave the theater and they can ask these questions or incorporate what they they've seen into their own lives. And so I just decided that I feel like there's a bigger conversation that needs to be happening with mental illness, single parenting and I thought, I have a story to tell, and if I tell my story, then perhaps there will be a bigger conversation about it. And so that's that's why I decided to, yeah, well,

[23:33] Mike Abrams: you definitely do it. I saw it this this past weekend, and I immediately went with the friend I went with, and we went two doors down and had a drink and had a long conversation about what we watched. That's

[23:43] Speaker 2: the goal. Oh my gosh. That makes me so happy to hear that. That's the goal. It's like, when you go to a movie and you leave the movie and you're like, we need to go have it. We had to

[23:50] Mike Abrams: do debrief. Yes, we need to find this. I love it. Yeah. So you've done that very well. And honestly, I saw every group leaving the theater doing very similar things. Of like, there was another group next to us, as I saw were sitting behind us, and so that's great. I, you know, I, I'm fascinated. I hope people are going to get a chance to go see if this will come out. There still be a couple weeks left of you doing it. I'm curious about it's such an emotional and I'm assuming, draining performance. How do you prepare yourself to do that, especially when you do it twice a day.

[24:21] Speaker 2: Doing it twice a day is difficult. And I will tell you, I get this question a lot. Some people are worried that I'm still living in the trauma of it all. And what I tell everyone is that I did go through trauma. For sure, it's still in my body, but I am not being damaged by it anymore. Enough time has passed and enough healing has passed where I can touch on it. I can remember the emotion. I can have the emotion, but it doesn't. It doesn't over it doesn't traumatize me all over again. Um. So what I do to prepare for it is i i Take better care for myself right now than I ever have in my whole life. I go to bed early. I'm eating really well. I'm not drinking because it does take a toll on my body more than I thought it would, but I'm able to leave it on stage. I don't leave the theater and feel like I'm emotionally drained. I'm tired because it's a marathon of a show, but I'm not. I don't come home and feel like I have to cry. It's energizing in in a way, even though it is exhausting, but it I know that I'm doing it correctly, because I'm not like, oh, that I need to go have a therapy session now, because, like, it's bringing up old stuff. It's not bringing up old stuff.

[25:53] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's fascinating to me. Is, again, not a performer to do just to do a 90 minute one show is, in itself, a physical feat. And I mean, it takes a lot of effort and energy to be able to you're carrying. I mean, we're only looking at you the whole time. You've got great musicians behind you, but it is you, and then you add in your content and the topics and the emotional history of that. And it's just like, again, we walked out and and debriefed, which I'm glad to hear that that's what you were looking for, because I think that that's, I think that's definitely what you achieved.

[26:29] Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. I was one. It is what I'm looking for. What would

[26:33] Mike Abrams: you say to someone they're gonna be I have party listeners in New York, and so if they're gonna come see it here the next couple weeks, what should they expect going in? Like, how would you give them a here's what you're coming

[26:45] Speaker 2: to see. I think you're what you need to expect is that you're seeing a true story, prefer, performed by the woman who lived it and she wrote it, and it's a frank conversation about untreated mental illness and how I walk through that with my son to the other side, and sort of realize that we can have a good life even though we have experienced trauma, and I will Say it is a heavy subject, but there's also levity. There's there's humor. I try to, you know when, like, you're talking to a really good friend and you're telling them about your horrible day, and it is a horrible day, but then, like, something funny happens, and it's just a part of the day, but it's, it sort of lightens it up. I i try to, I tried to write that into this script, because when you're seeing something really emotional, there needs to be breath and in that storytelling so that the story is entertaining and not just too heavy, yeah, You know,

[28:01] Mike Abrams: yeah, there's a little bit of laughing and crying, like there's got to be a mix of both. And yeah, you definitely achieved that. And I think you found ways to make things that are relatable, even if someone hasn't dealt with that mental trauma in their own personal life. You there's other moments that that I'm sure people will tie to, of things that happen in between. But Well, if anybody has gets a chance to, hasn't seen it, gets a chance to, I highly, highly, highly recommend it. It was a beautiful performance and story, and really, really spectacular. So I will be linking everything. Go see it while you still can. I want to end here with a couple rapid fire and most important question, which is the Jellicle choice question. But before we get to that, if you could go on to cats for any character for one night, only forget if it's in your you know, male, female vocal range, whatever. But if you could just do one performance, who would you want

[28:55] Speaker 2: to go on as? Whoa, oh my gosh. Okay, I'm struggling the first two cats that came to my mind is Mr. Mistoffelees and bomb ballerina, both who get to sing and dance. I'm not really a dancer, but Mr. Mr. Lee's dance is incredible and and like the 11 o'clock dance, you know, but he also is, like, just fun throughout the show, you know, especially in the ball, he has great moments. And then when he gets that light up jacket, it's just, I just love it. And then bomb ballerina is present throughout the whole show. She's a strong woman, a strong cat, and she has a great song, and she's sexy. And I think they would be really fun to do either one of those. I

[29:57] Mike Abrams: agree. I agree with both of those. I. Think those are two, two great answers, who are your favorite and least favorite cats characters?

[30:07] Speaker 2: Well, obviously, my favorite is Grizabella, Duh. My least favorite cat. Geez,

[30:19] Mike Abrams: I don't have a least favorite cat? No, not one. There's not one as Grizabella that kind of like bugs you a little, or even Jess.

[30:31] Mike Abrams: yeah. Usually someone has it. It's actually fascinating to me, because some people are like, start with the the dislike first mine. I can tell you, mine is mine's Peter. I hate Peter. Why? I just don't, I just don't like that. You got, it's GUR in your 2016 because it's Gus character. And they have, they name all these like crazy cat names. You've got skimble shanks and Tugger and Bisto police, and then you've got Peter,

[30:55] Speaker 2: yeah, but I have a friend that has a dog named Steve.

[30:59] Mike Abrams: I know I have. I do have friends that have it, and it makes me laugh. But I just like, This show's got such creative and strange names so but no, people usually have, and usually it's a if they're like, their character kind of has, like, a little bit of like, oh, I don't really get along with that cat. It's usually that. But, yeah, I do. I do get an answer most of the time. I won't pressure on answer anyone, though. Well,

[31:21] Speaker 2: I don't have a cat that I dislike. I mean, that's like saying like, which shot, what, which, which of your children do you not like? I mean, I love cats. I would be surprised. I know one of my best friends loves cats too, Claire camp, and I bet you, she didn't have an answer either. I

[31:41] Mike Abrams: think she did answer that. I have to go back. I've interviewed Claire Claire. It was Claire loves cats. Claire is it was, Oh, I know, so fun.

[31:47] Speaker 2: I've done two different productions of cats with Claire.

[31:51] Mike Abrams: Claire is a trip she had. That's her party. Her party trick was telling people which cat they wear. And I have found that fascinating. I love it. It's just such a fun thing. She's She's incredible. I will go back. I will email you when we hang up, because I will go back and listen to it. I'm pretty sure she answered that question.

[32:08] Speaker 2: I will be shocked, shocked. She loves cats more than I love cat. I think it's going

[32:15] Mike Abrams: to be someone that annoyed her, but not like disliked. You know, no one dislikes. You know, again, family, but you got that one? Okay, we'll go on. What about favorite song from the show? Um,

[32:31] Speaker 2: when I'm not in the show, I would say, or I, let me, let me amend that, when I'm in the show, my favorite song is moment of happiness, okay? I think it is beautiful. And Grizabella sneaks out on stage and is there for that song that Old Deuteronomy sings. And I think it is such a great song. It's really deep. There's so much in that song. And then when I'm not when so to sing. I think the opening angelicles, it's so fun. Jellicles are angelicals do? I mean, it's just a fun song. I

[33:23] Mike Abrams: agree. There's a, you know, I go through waves of which one is my answer to this all time, and right now, it's Macavity, but it's been Mungo, general teaser. It's been memory. It's been, you know, there's, there's a lot of really good, just musical moments in this. All right, we got to get to the most important question. And I think you're going to defend Grizabella, but I have argued that I don't think Grizabella is the right Jollof choice. So I want to hear, are you defending Grizabella, or do you have a different Jellicle choice? If you get to make the decision on who gets to go the heavy side

[34:01] Speaker 2: I think Grizabella welcoming back into the tribe is, is her rebirth? Um, right there. She doesn't need to go the heavy side layer. She gets to be back home completely. I think Gus should have gone to the heavy side layer. I

[34:21] Mike Abrams: love, love, love, love that you picked that because it's rare I get a Grizabella, not pick Grizabella. So thank you for Bucha and, oh yeah, very and I understand it. If you have to

[34:38] Mike Abrams: moment multiple times, like you're really, you're in that and you have to kind of almost deal with that emotional to sing it like you have to sing it with such raw emotion to begin with that you kind of sell yourself on like, yeah, of course, it's me, but I agree with you in the sense that I think that because she comes back like she can be next year's choice. Like, let her go next year. What

[35:00] Speaker 2: wouldn't it be great if she was the choice? And then she turned to Gus and brought him up to the tire, to Old Deuteronomy, and let let him go in her place. I mean, talk about that would be, I'd be done. That would be Academy Award winning moment right there.

[35:22] Mike Abrams: I That's probably my favorite answer right now. Is how we need to, how we need to end the show is, is she's the choice, and then she gives she turns around and does not go on the tire and grabs Gus and it's your turn.

[35:36] Speaker 2: Ultimate redemption. I think that's what Grizabella would do, you know, because she doesn't necessarily want to go that. I mean, what she wants is to feel loved again. And

[35:49] Mike Abrams: exactly that's that has been my most common argument now, is give her that moment, but let her have it for the year, like, let's let her experience it. We are on the exact same page, yay. I am glad I thought I was gonna come here and have to debate and convince you to pick grizzly to get rid of your Grizabella mindset, and you have exactly the argument that I've been making recently. So yes, I totally agree with you. I love it, and you've won update because you have. You've taken the actor version of it too and said, Let's make the ending even better. She's gonna step down, grab Gus, and then he's gonna go, we're gonna work on trying to convince somebody to let us do that in a production. Wouldn't

[36:29] Speaker 2: that be amazing? That would just be that would be amazing. I, in fact, I'm gonna work to make that happen, please.

[36:39] Mike Abrams: I have been trying. Andrew Weber ignores all my messages and then, no, I worked with the tour, the current tour, they were so fun to test out some like cider, you know, smaller things without, of course, messing with what people are going to see. But yes, you have more poll than I do. If you can make this happen, I'm there. I will be I'll be sitting front and center at the audience, if you can make anywhere in the world, if you can make that

[37:03] Speaker 2: happen. I mean, if anything, it would make all the news, because people would be up in our there would if doesn't go

[37:12] Mike Abrams: it would change again, 40 years of the same ending. It rewriting it. But that's what I'm here for. One one episode. Time grizabell is only half the votes right now on this podcast, and I That's cool, around half,

[37:25] Speaker 2: so I don't know all the other votes. Gus, he's

[37:29] Mike Abrams: like, 30 or 40% and then you get all these, like, random one or two, or someone's got a joke around why, or it was their cat, and they're just like, oh, and that's pretty much the only answers. But, yeah, it's, it's about, it's 30 or 40% Gus, 50 ish percent Grizabella. And then, yeah, a couple other random arguments. So

[37:48] Speaker 2: even people that weren't Grizabella will still say Grizabella. Interesting. Okay,

[37:53] Mike Abrams: you get some. Definitely get some. Um, how can people stay in touch with you? And we'll link the walking with bubbles tickets. So if anybody can still see, how can people stay in touch with you? On social media,

[38:04] Speaker 2: I'm I'm still on Facebook because I'm not an in Gen Z or so. I'm Jessica Hendy on Facebook, I for Twitter and Instagram. I'm at just handy and, yeah, that's super easy. I check my DMs.

[38:24] Mike Abrams: Yes, if you have other ways to end cats, send, send them to us. I check my DMs too. So send us. Send us your other versions of how we can end the show. Well, thank you so much for for coming on and sharing your story and walking with bubbles and and tell us a little bit about cats and your experiences. It

[38:42] Speaker 2: was so fun. I was so glad I was asked. I appreciate it amazing,

[38:46] Mike Abrams: and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died the podcast. Break down the cat stash feed to follow along. You can subscribe on podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, right? So listen to podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok died. Or check out our website.com,