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[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was Bombalurina on the Royal Caribbean Oasis of the Seas and then just finished up on the Asia Tour in Taiwan as a swing. So welcome, Lucy Rice, and thank you for joining me.

[0:33] Lucy Rice: Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited. I have only talked to one person that has been on the Asia Tour, and I talked to them actually when they were not on that tour. They were somewhere else. So you're going to be the first to be able to talk about this production really for me. So I want to, before I get into Royal Caribbean and the Asia Tour, I actually love to start at the beginning. So let's start at your cat's history. When were you introduced? I know you're a dancer. So was it the 1998 movie that you saw? Was it a production you saw touring? When were you first introduced to the show?

[1:01] Lucy Rice: Oh, I wish. No, I unfortunately was one of those that didn't know about the show very well until I did it. Not at all. Okay. Not really. So it's actually quite a funny story because I was living with two of my housemates at the time, and they both got auditions for two different productions of Cats, and I didn't get one. So I was like, but it's fine. I'm not that fussed. It's okay. And anyway, long story short, they ended up getting cut. That's all fine. But then I ended up getting auditions for both of those again, like later on. And then I ended up getting the ship. So it was quite funny that it was—

[1:41] Lucy Rice: So I also was for the international tour, but I got a couple of rounds through and then that was it. And then auditioned, and I was actually late cast for the Royal Caribbean production. So I literally just did one self-tape for Bombalurina, and then I arrived about a week later than everyone else and started rehearsals. So it was pretty quick. And at that point, you know nothing. You know nothing about the show. And I didn't really know anything. It was like I had to record Macavity for the videotape, and I was there at work, at my donut shop that I worked at, just learning the song. Because I'd heard it maybe once or twice, but didn't know it. And I think any kind of musical theatre student has learnt the Copeland section of the Jellicle Ball at least once or twice in their lifetime.

So I roughly knew that, but I actually had just done the international tour audition the week before I did the tape, so I'd learnt it there. So thankfully, I could get the tape done pretty quick. But yeah, and so I got to the rehearsals, and I was like sat there with the director, who lives and breathes Cats, the director at Royal Caribbean. So I sat down, and I just felt so nervous. I was thinking, God, maybe I should have done some research before I got to this job. It was my first professional job. I was like, I don't want to look bad. But I sat there in front of him, and he goes, so Lucy, what do you know about Cats? Do you know anything about it? And I honestly just sit there and go, no, not much.

But he kind of loved that, that he could tell me, he sat and told me the whole story. And he went into so much detail about it that I loved it, loved hearing his passion for it. And it made me go into the rehearsal process and kind of understand what we were doing. So I'm kind of grateful that that's how I got into the show, because I came at it from a creative point of view, rather than watching it and not really understanding what was going on. Because I personally think I would have watched the show and just gone, if I had seen the show, I'd watched it and gone, don't get it. Which is why I think it's a bit of a controversial show as it is.

[4:00] Mike Abrams: So I want you to bring me back to that moment when he tells you, sits you down, you know nothing, and walks you through the whole thing. What was going through your head? Were you like, wow, I never knew there was this much? Or were you blown away by that?

[4:14] Lucy Rice: It was very overwhelming, because I'd heard Memory, so I knew that. And I knew it was a show about cats, but I didn't realize that it could be such a detailed storyline. And especially going through the rehearsal process as well, every single little moment has a meaning, which was crazy to me that a lot of the time the audience wouldn't even see that. But in order for us to be able to tell an authentic story in a way of being cats, we had to know all these little details that might not even be known to an audience. And he was telling me that before I'd even started the rehearsal. So I was like, wow, this is a lot. But as soon as he was telling me about it, and I got into the rehearsal process, I was like, wow, I love this show.

It's so me, which is really funny, knowing that I was looking back on it and being like, I'm not that fussed. I didn't get an audition. Don't really want to, not that fussed about Cats anyway. It doesn't seem like a show for me. I could not have been more wrong.

[5:20] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So you, I kind of love that moment. Now you're on the Royal Caribbean. This is now the 90-minute version, right? So you're past the point where they've cut out Bustopher and a couple of the other pieces.

[5:34] Lucy Rice: Yeah. It's still made sense to me because that's all I knew. So yeah, but it's definitely, now that I've done the full version of the show, it's definitely shortened. You can tell.

[5:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So I want to hear, what do you remember from the Royal Caribbean time? It sounds like the tour or the production is crazy with stories because it's on a ship. You know, it's kind of like, the ship's built around the whole stage and everything. So what stories do you remember? What are some of the crazy, fun memories from doing on the ship?

[6:12] Lucy Rice: I mean, it's a whole different ballgame doing it for an audience of people that aren't necessarily there to see Cats. It's the entertainment that's provided for them. So it was definitely like, we had to really, really love the show. Not that the audience didn't enjoy it, because they definitely did a lot of the time, but we were very aware that there were moments where people would leave halfway through and we had to go, that's fine. But we would make fun for ourselves in the show. I mean, it helped that we did love doing the show. But just moments like, you know, we'd have a rocky show and things would go different. I remember doing one part of the show and I was on one side of the stage and next thing I know I was on the other, because the ship went on its own, like, rocked a bit.

But yeah, it was more just funny, like, seeing, actually, sometimes when we'd see that we'd converted audience members, they'd probably sit down and be a bit skeptical about the show. And then we'd see them by the end and they loved it. And we were like, that's why we're doing it, because you never know what fans you could find, even on a ship. But yeah, it was weird doing it on the ship, especially now that I've done it not on the ship. It's a whole different thing.

[7:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's a paid audience versus an unpaid audience. I think that's a part that you're kind of referencing, too, that's so much different. Everyone that's going when you're in Taiwan has made a choice and invested in going versus everyone on the ship has invested in going on a cruise and have decided to give you all 90 minutes of their time on the cruise, but with no other investment to it. It's just like, oh, I could pop in and then I could pop out.

[8:07] Lucy Rice: Yeah. Although despite that, what was funny to me is that because it was like an American audience and like a Taiwanese audience, which is what I was kind of with, the culture is so different, that the way that they expressed their love for the show was so different. Like an American audience, they're obviously so loud. They're like, they're going to let their love be known. As soon as Memory ended, every single show was full of applause and whoops and cheers. We'd get to Taiwan and we knew they loved the show because they paid to come and see it. They would tell us, we'd see them at stage door. They absolutely adored what we did, but they were so much more reserved that it felt weird to me that I was like, but how do these guys love this so much?

And they're like, we'll get to Memory and there'll be silence. But it's because their way of expressing it and feeling the show is just to sit and enjoy it. So that was weird. That was a weird thing for me to experience. I love that.

[9:05] Mike Abrams: But I loved it. I know. I live in New York, so I'm doing a lot of the, I get to go to a lot of theater here. And you're right, our American crowds are sometimes a little over the top and there's been some shows where I'm like, all right, people chill, calm down and quit talking. And I would love to sit in a theater where you could just appreciate the art. And so that sounds almost therapeutic. Because we'd go into the audience as well. When we'd go into the audience and they'd be sat there looking at us like, oh my gosh, that I can't believe they're so close to me. I can't believe the cats are in the audience. They're looking at me. They're like interacting with me. And I'd be thinking like, oh my God, I can't believe we can do this for them.

So we can see it on their faces, how much they're loving the show. But yeah, it just gets to the end of a number and it's a really polite applause. It's just like really, really funny, the difference. And then you'd come out of the show on the ship and you'd see someone and be like, the show wasn't for me. And I'm like, but you, but you, I don't know, just, so we've definitely had our fair share of, well, I've definitely had my fair share of like a range of audiences, which changes the energy on the stage actually as well.

[10:20] Mike Abrams: Definitely. So let's pivot to Taiwan because I have not talked to nearly as many people that have done the Asia tour and you already have highlighted one kind of major difference is that the audience is just in general different. I love, I love that. I know that it's also, I believe, more Gillian Lynn's choreography. So it sounds like you got to go into the audience, but what are some of the differences you noticed besides the audience between doing Royal Caribbean and then going on to the full Asia tour?

[10:52] Lucy Rice: I mean, it's tricky for me because my rehearsal process for the tour was very short. I was working quite last minute for the tour. So I had about four days in London to be told, right, you're going to be covering these roles. It wasn't even really a rehearsal. It was kind of a recap for all the people that have done Korea. And then I was kind of thrown in. So that was a bit strange. Not necessarily having the full rehearsal process of it to know the difference between the two productions so much. They were both directed by different.

[11:25] Lucy Rice: Around the show and everything and her history with the show. So yeah, to be able to say I've done the show with her was amazing and I loved her direction of the show. It was very minimalized so like you didn't have to necessarily show anything too much but it was all about the thought process which I really appreciated. Other than that, it was mainly just like the interactions I had with everyone on stage were slightly different, whether that was just because it was a different cast, I don't know, or if it's because their direction that they'd gone through was different to the direction that I'd gone through as in like interacting with people on stage. I never went through that directorial kind of process for the Asia tour because my first show was with two hours' notice and I'd never done the show with anyone on the stage so it was very much being thrown in.

But just the stories that you'd have, like I'd have a storyline with my Plato McCavity on the ship and then I'd get to the Asia tour and we're doing something slightly different and it was really refreshing actually to do it in a different way. But mainly just my intentions towards things were slightly different, especially because I managed to play Bombalurina in both productions as well. How I approached things, like how I approached my interactions with Demeter was slightly different, but that was mainly just because how I was told to do it was slightly different.

[12:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so I mean that's so interesting because I think that there are a lot of different variations of the relationships that could be played and I kind of love like thinking back to you sitting on, you know, the—I just, I'm assuming, I don't know if it's actually the case, I'm sure you rehearsed not on the ship, but like just you sitting on a Royal Caribbean cruise ship just being like told the two hours' worth of story of Cats and then getting none of that when you go because you're kind of again thrown in at the last second. It was an emergency, and they're like, "Yeah, you know enough, you know the show, you kind of know we don't have to tell you a little bit."

[13:47] Lucy Rice: Yeah, yeah, so we're gonna let you just go because you know you can get away with it if you think that you know maybe this is the relationship versus that relationship, the audience isn't going to notice the difference. In a way, I kind of enjoyed that because it felt a bit more organic what my actual choices were. I felt like because I was playing the same role every show and I was doing the same thing every show on Royal Caribbean, it was very much like I knew what I was going to do acting choice-wise—not that there was always much difference anyway—but like generally my choices were exactly the same, the show was pretty similar every night. Whereas with this, especially because there were two roles that I'd never done before thrown in the mix, my choices were different every time I did a show because I was finding new things out, I was acting against different people.

The set itself is slightly different so I would see like a pipe that wasn't on the stage on the ship and I'd be like, "Well, I'm gonna sit on that." But like just things like that, I was able to find that out during the show, which is a little bit scary but also just made the choices a bit fresher and a bit more organically produced rather than it being a set in motion kind of thing.

[15:10] Lucy Rice: Yeah, so you cover Bomb, Demeter, and Jenny Annie Dots, so I want to know who'd you go on for first in Taiwan?

[15:27] Lucy Rice: So I first went on for Demeter, actually.

[15:32] Mike Abrams: Okay, so two hours' notice Demeter. I'm curious to hear for the first times that you went on for Demeter and Jenny Annie Dots, how much of your depiction of their story was what you thought as Bombalurina from the ship? Like is that how you—it was like, "Hey, here's what I think that like I was told from the Bomb perspective that this is Demeter and this is Jenny," or did you try to kind of get a little bit from either somebody that had just finished or from Chrissy or from somebody else?

[16:03] Lucy Rice: Well, with Demeter, I obviously—she's like Bomb's sister, like Bomb's partner in crime, so I'd spend a lot of time with her on stage or even just looking at her on stage because she's always looking out for her and keeping an eye on her in some way. So I kind of put my Demeter head in the perspective of how Bomb would see her because that's just the only way I'd known. Also, in a way, I relate a bit more to Demeter as a person rather than Bomb. Like I love playing Bomb, but she's not very me. So I would look at Demeter and be like, "I'm a bit more of an anxiety kind of like anxious head." So when, especially being thrown on last minute, that acting choice came out strong because I was anxious and scared, but it came out in a nice way, I guess.

At least it fit the character a bit. So yeah, with Demeter, it was like I kind of knew how to play her because of being with Bomb and how she treats her. It is different doing it yourself though, but I really enjoyed doing it. There was one moment actually that I had when I was doing a little bit of work on Demeter that I had a very short amount of time before I ended up going on, and it was the moment at the end of "Remark" when Grizabella is walking off, the whole tribe are just like staring her down saying, "Go away," and it goes into Bustopher Jones, which obviously it didn't on the ship. So that transition of Demeter following Grizabella off, one thing I was told was let the scene carry on, let Bustopher Jones start, but don't take your concentration off of Grizabella because your thought process is on her at that point.

So that was one thing I would never have known because, A, it didn't happen on the ship, it went straight into something else—I can't remember what it was, I think it was Mungo Jerry or something—and B, yeah, I'd never been through that rehearsal process for me to know that was a thing. So little things like that, which are integral to the story, I was a bit like, "Oh gosh, like I have no idea what's going on," especially because I had no history with it. Yeah, so it was interesting to find out new parts of the show just from playing new parts because I'm still learning about the show. Like I'll listen to parts of your podcast and be like, "Oh my gosh, didn't know that," even though I've done it for so long.

[18:40] Mike Abrams: And that's such an interesting piece of it too because like even little things—I don't think there's an answer to a lot—well, let me rephrase that. I'm sure there's an answer if you ask the original people that created the show or like at least their thought process, but what has sustained this show is the fact that there isn't an answer to so much of this stuff and it allows you to kind of play with that. And I do kind of love the idea of, okay, you're picking up a new piece. Did, as you did the—like from going from the shortened show to the full show—did having Bustopher and some of these other characters change anything about your perspective of the way you played the story? It's like you now have another interact—now I guess Bustopher is kind of a worthless, walks in, does this thing, walks out—but there are other cats that are not on the ship that are part of the show that actually do have like some really interesting stories.

Did that—did your Bomb necessarily or Demeter evolve as you went from, "Wow, now I gotta figure out how to interact with a Bustopher or interact with the twins or whoever might not have made it through from the ship to Taiwan?"

[19:42] Lucy Rice: I don't think so much because kind of like you say, Bustopher Jones, she's just a cute old number. The only thing is because Jenny sings it, I did have to have a connection with it, and in a way that kind of helped me with her storyline because she has that great tap number, but then it's kind of like cool, Jenny's just there now. She's there as Mum, she's kind of enjoying her time, but it added something else to her story, which I don't think would have done without Bustopher. Just that, yeah, she's still kind of there, she's got some love going on, it made her really fun to play. So with that, not so much. I did really get a bit of a—did like a personal connection more with Gus once seeing his story continue a bit more because on the ship his number is so short and he just sings his little number and he toddles off and that's it.

And I just think, "Oh, he deserves a bit more than that." So to see his kind of love for theatre, especially him come back on at the end and kind of reprise his number and get so emotional, and Gus on the tour was incredible at it. Honestly, I watched him do it and I just like started to bawl. It really connected me to that character at least. I guess that's not necessarily changing how I would act, but my connection to particular character stories weren't necessarily my own change.

[21:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah, and I think that is such a—that was kind of my question, is like it is a difference, I guess, if Gus is getting way less time on the ship of the song and then you're getting more. You are getting a different show. I mean, you're going from 90 minutes to two and a half; like it's an extra hour or 45 minutes at least with intermission. Like that's a lot more show, and I know a lot of that is dancing and parts that are just cut from, you know, other pieces here and there, but there's also actual like full-on sections cut. And so it does feel different. I've like I've kind of been dying to see the 90-minute version because I want to be like, "All right, does this change any of the relationships that could have been played or the thoughts there?" Because you lose some of the whole like big storyline.

[21:48] Lucy Rice: Yeah, and I think what's important is that I had just as amazing a time and found just as big a love for the show by starting with the 90-minute version. Like I remember whilst I was doing it, I was really enjoying doing the show, and then my two best friends on the ship were like, "Right, you need to watch the '98 film because you've not seen it," because they would be like, "Oh my gosh, Peaks and Pollicles," and I'm like, "What's that?" Yeah, and they're like, "Oh, you must see it, it's a must-see." And now I've done it, I'm like, "Oh yeah, that's a crazy part of the show." But we sat down like one night in my cabin with blankets and everything and we watched the film, and I was like, "Oh, okay, now I get it." But I wouldn't say that I've loved finding out new things about the show by doing the full version and seeing new interactions and new parts coming out and little character moments be seen. I wouldn't say it loses anything from what it's from.

[22:51] Lucy Rice: That alone makes sense of like, if you have an audience that is willing to get up midway through and leave, you definitely are going to hold them through intermission. And so I thought that was actually a very smart decision. And then I was like, what'd they cut? And it's like, oh, it's busted for, it'll be fine. You know, like things like that. It's like, it will be okay. But I love hearing you talk about the character interactions and moments. So is there, what are some of the ones that you, maybe not either that you got to play or that you got to watch, like what are some of the character relationships and choices that you really love seeing happen on stage?

[24:03] Lucy Rice: And again, I think for me, I noticed a lot of these more by doing it in Asia. And I don't know if it's because I could distance myself from it a bit more. Well, I, because we've grown strong relationships and friendships when I was on the ship. So naturally fired a close, I was close friends with my Alonzo, for example. So we would have quite a few more interactions than I may have done with the Alonzo on, in the Asia tour, just because friendships and everything coming onto stage. It's a very intimate show. Whereas yeah, with the Asia tour, I was kind of stepped back. I was new, I was fresh. So I was letting the relationships happen. If anyone came to me, I felt I was getting involved. If I saw someone and I wanted to interact, I would go and interact and it was great.

But I also loved watching the interactions happen. I remember, for example, watching, I would either be offstage watching moments or when I was ended up being on stage, I was also watching my other covers just to be like, Oh, what are they doing? Where are they? What are they on this point? And I remember I would always catch eyes with Jenny. She was a very new one for me. Character wise, as I say, like Demita, I had some way of knowing how to be her. But Jenny was very fresh. So I try and see what she was like on stage and how she would be in her numbers that didn't involve her. And her interactions with all the kittens. I loved it. She was proper mum. She was especially with like Karl Buckety, for example, and like Bill Bailey, she'd get them all involved.

And I loved seeing that play out so that when it ended up being my turn, that happened more naturally, because I was like, they were coming to me. And I was like, Oh, yeah, of course, like, this is what happens. And I feel like I'm getting into character by them being here. And yeah, I loved being able to actually have a go at doing that, as well as seeing it for myself and enjoying watching it. But yeah, I think the character interactions on stage is so important, even if they're not necessarily the highlighted moment in a song or a scene. It's creating the story for the whole stage.

[26:18] Lucy Rice: Yeah, I think that's, I think that's what makes the show and I kind of love, you know, as I've done this so many episodes, and I've kind of read from this all started for me reading from the fan theories, because I'd only seen it twice, I really knew nothing about it. And I've started to pick up that so many of the moments that are like, wait a second, these two might be this type of relationship are just because the actors and actresses are friends. It's like, Oh, these aren't supposed to be together. But they are. And it's like, I love hearing you say that, like, Oh, I got my Alonzo's my friend. So Alonzo and Bob, all of a sudden, there's maybe this chemistry that isn't supposed to be there.

Yeah. And it's really that simple. But it also is kind of interesting when you think about you joining late in Taiwan, when you don't have all those relationships established. It's a where you're going to plug in and start to create those in the moment. And it's, it's what I think is cool about the shows, because there's just so many different variations of like, here's, you know, here's what I saw today versus what you saw. And this swing is on and exactly every show is different, doing a different.

[27:23] Lucy Rice: Yeah, we're gonna take a quick break. And we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died. I want to pivot a little bit to talk about something that I think you've done an amazing job of, and I wish more people were doing, which is using the fact that you have cats to use, like for your Tick Tock. And so I have loved seeing that you were able to do like, I think cats is built for transitions on Tick Tock, like, everyone who's performing has the ability to do pre getting in costume and post getting in costume, which is like a trend for everybody. If it's gonna tell me a little bit about how you started.

[28:05] Lucy Rice: As I say, if it's gonna take me, I'm gonna do it. I, you know, like, 2020, everyone going to Tick Tock and having a bit of fun with it. So yeah, I got involved. And on the ship, especially, there's a lot of pastime, a lot of time to kill. And you'd see a little sound come up and be like, that would be funny. And I remember the first one we did was, I think it was like a SpongeBob sound that's like, why aren't you in uniform? And everyone went on. And everyone comes back on. And I we'd known these people for a month, but we're like, guys, let's make a Tick Tock. Let's so I got we got about probably more than half of the cast together to make this, like cute Tick Tock of us changing in from humans into cats and everything.

And it went, it did pretty well on Tick Tock. And I loved doing it. It was just it made it fun. And in the behind the scenes moments, I guess, and created little memories. And because it was doing well as well. Obviously, that's always a motivator and a bit of fun. And then, yeah, you see a new sound, you're like, well, may as well do that as a cat. And you see a transition video come up. And I'm like, oh, well, I could do that from human to cat or anything like that. So, yeah, I loved getting involved and then got to Asia. And those guys are doing it as well. And I'm like, well, clearly, it's great. So then we're all getting involved and doing Tick Tocks. And yeah, I love it. It's definitely also just sharing the love for the show as well.

And then you find people that like, oh, my gosh, I was on the ship on this day. And I watched you guys in the show. And I was like, how did you find that? And so it also lets people find us. And it's like fun. It's nice to hear that people have enjoyed watching the show as well as seeing that we're normal. I'd say normal, but fun humans in the background as well.

[29:53] Lucy Rice: Yeah, it's it's so it's fun. So my I mean, my Tick Tock's obviously just for the podcast. So it's like my algorithm is built for cats and musical theater. And I've been surprised at how few and your cast does have a couple of people, at least in Taiwan that were doing it. And I'm like, finally, because it's it's not as many people have done it before. And granted, Tick Tock wasn't big until, you know, recently. But one thing I had heard is I was giving a former Tugger a hard time about this off off camera. And he was like, yeah, by the time we get to intermission, everyone's like exhausted. And the last thing they want to do is film it. So how did you kind of get your cast to be like, all right, hold on. I know we're about to go on stage. I know we're about to perform for almost three hours in front of a full crowd. But like, let's quickly dance this number after after we get our makeup on.

[30:45] Lucy Rice: Well, especially like my two friends on the ship, we would be like, right, we are going to be ready by the 20 minute call. We're doing this Tick Tock and then we'll do the show because we didn't have the intermission. So we didn't have the in between. Obviously, at the end of the show, wasn't going to happen. What I did find was it was always on the days where we'd had a two show day. So most of us lucky people that didn't necessarily sweat it off, kept our makeup on between the shows. So it was very quick for us to get ready for the second show. Therefore, we would be like, oh, we're ready early. Why don't why don't we film Tick Tock? So it was always on those days that we found it. And then other days, someone would be like, guys, guys, I just found this sound.

Let's let's try this one. And then we'd be doing it and someone would come in and go, oh, can I be in it? So then we get people would want to do it rather than having to be like, let's let's find the time. I loved doing it. And it was just also like the makeup, like transition ones, always fun as well. Like when you're doing that by yourself, filming like what's it the time lapses and everything. Then I like I still look back on them now, especially because the makeup parts are so different between the two productions that I'm looking at them going, well, that's very different, which is also why maybe fans love seeing it as well, because they're like, look at the difference between all the different productions as well on how they look and how they do their makeup and everything. So it was still it was mainly all just a bit of fun for me. Yeah, people are enjoying it. It's a bonus, but I was enjoying myself. So it's great.

[32:28] Lucy Rice: I think that's the only way it succeeds is if it's like if it's fun for you, then hopefully other people do it. Because otherwise, if it feels like a job, it gets it's also the reason I still record these is that I know they're still really fun for me to hear and learn about the different productions versus a feeling like, oh, I got to talk to, you know, like if it gets to that moment, then all of a sudden it becomes it becomes not fun for you. And I don't think the quality of what is produces is as good. I feel like if anyone thought like that, people wouldn't be doing I wouldn't have done cats for the second time. Some people do cats for years. It's like it's one of those that once once you know about it, once you love it, that's it, you're in. You're in for the long haul.

[33:05] Lucy Rice: Definitely. Oh, I know. You know, I've met people have done the show eight, nine times. And then you've also on the fan side, you know, you have people that have seen it hundreds of times. And I'm like, I've seen it once. No, yeah.

[33:17] Lucy Rice: They've just one time you did. So you didn't watch it as you were like in Taiwan on the days you were on. So I did a show watch. So I was given a watch of the show that I was making notes. But I actually we had a booth. So we were offstage swings singing in the booth. So didn't help with me trying to make notes in the shows because I was busy singing. But it kept us involved in the show as well. And we would be there like having our own little like rituals and stuff during the show, like having little moments between us. And that was a whole different side of the show. Seeing it watching the band play, because that was another thing, actually a difference. The ship was on a click track. So it's to a track.

So the music is the same every night at the same length. You follow the music, whereas obviously, to an extent, you follow the music with a band, but the band follow you. So that was very different as well. But seeing the band play and seeing all the instruments coming out the flute, for example.

[34:17] Lucy Rice: All kinds of other stuff. And then you've got swings going on. You've got different people making slightly different choices. So it is one of those shows that there are many shows where I feel like you get roughly the same thing every time. Even though there's different people and everything, it's pretty much the same show. There's not a lot of liberties you can take. Whereas I think in Cats, you get a lot more small liberties because the lack of plot almost allows you to create more throughout. And I've only seen the show four times, which is crazy. But all four were also very different experiences of who was doing this and who was doing that. Of course, the second two times, I now knew way too much about the show.

First two times, I knew nothing. Second two times, I'm like, wait, I know everything now. I know way too much. And even then, I was noticing different moments where back-to-back shows, people made different choices. Yeah, well, when you think about it, it's a show with no script. So if you're not singing, and so for example, I get my stage plan and I'm there as Demeter and it's Gus. I'm told you're there, not told anything else. I'm just told to watch Gus and sit in that spot. And I'm like, okay, well, all the choices are mine. It doesn't have to be the same as that Demeter, doesn't have to be the same as the next Demeter. Same with any other character. If I'm on stage and it's a new Carbuckty on the stage, they're making completely different choices, but they're being their own version of that character.

So that's why every show is going to be different because there's so many numbers where even characters that will sing one or two lines the entire show on their own. So they've got all these numbers to make their own choices without even saying anything. And so much of the storytelling is because we are portraying something physically, the acting is all going to be physical and with our bodies and with our faces and stuff. So a lot of character choices are going to come just by watching and not necessarily listening, which I really loved.

[36:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Such a unique piece to it. And it's cool too, with you getting to experience so many different versions. You talk about that for most people. It's like, yeah, you get to see some tweaks here, but you got to experience two different shows almost.

[37:01] Lucy Rice: I'd say four because three different shows with three different cats and a whole other show is Bombalurina. So yeah, very, very lucky. Even five, swing, offstage booth, that's a whole other show. So yeah, very lucky.

[37:18] Mike Abrams: Let's do some rapid fire. So if you could go on for one night, and I know you pretty much just finished. So let's say, ignoring whether it's male, female, vocal range, just if it's like, I would love to just play this role one night, one time, who would you want to go?

[37:37] Lucy Rice: I think I loved Bill Bailey for some reason. I wish I could flip like that, but he's just such a fun kitten that can also express his playfulness by doing all these flips and stuff, which is crazy and audiences live for it. So I'd love to play him.

[37:56] Mike Abrams: I love it. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats in the show?

[38:03] Lucy Rice: I feel like my own personal view of it is from seeing them play on stage. I've always had a little soft spot for Carbucketty or Pounceable. In both productions, I've had such sweet interactions with that character and always enjoyed playing off of them and then watching them as well. I have a little soft spot for the kittens, I think. But Carbucketty, especially, which I think is kind of a niche answer, maybe. Just very, very, very cute. I don't know about least favorite. I don't know, like, I've never really been that fussed about Grizabella. And I feel like that is a very... I don't know, I just feel like she's... I want her to be more present, maybe, in moments. I don't know, I feel like she comes on, goes off, comes back on 50 minutes later, and I'm like, where have you been? What are you doing?

[39:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah, this is great for my last question.

[39:03] Lucy Rice: Oh, really?

[39:06] Mike Abrams: If she's your least favorite, then I'm ready. I'm excited to ask you who your Jellicle choice is. Let's go with favorite song from the show.

[39:17] Lucy Rice: The opening. It's just so epic. And I just remember, I get to the end of the opening and I think that's insane that we just did that. And I remember watching and thinking, that's a whole spectacle. Like, the ball itself is incredible, always gets a massive round of applause at the end. But I say the opening is just as impressive as the ball because it's the same amount of dancing and singing. And everyone gets introduced. Everyone's got their moment and their line. Like, it's just a whole ensemble piece. And I love it.

[39:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Here's my fun one, which is, which cat do you think would be the best TikTok influencer?

[39:58] Lucy Rice: Ah, maybe Mungo and Rumpelteazer. I think they'd make a good pair.

[40:03] Mike Abrams: Ooh, what's their content?

[40:05] Lucy Rice: Good online duo. Prank videos.

[40:09] Mike Abrams: Prank videos. So I've asked this question a lot now and I've answered it a lot of different ways. I don't think I've ever answered them, but I kind of like the idea of like, they're the, yeah, they're doing some like prank videos. People like it, you know.

[40:22] Lucy Rice: They're the ones dressed up as the trees and hiding and jumping out at people.

[40:27] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[40:28] Lucy Rice: Okay. I could see that. I always thought it was, I thought it was going to be a Victoria or a Bombalurina doing makeup tutorials and makeup tutorials or Bust for Jenny Anydots doing cooking.

[40:41] Mike Abrams: I love that.

[40:43] Lucy Rice: That's where I'm kind of leaning. Or like Jenny Anydots doing like cleaning videos or like housekeeping videos.

[40:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. But she sleeps all day. So she's not going to.

[40:52] Lucy Rice: Very true.

[40:53] Mike Abrams: Like she's, she's not, she doesn't have the time for that. She's got to do her regular work.

[40:56] Lucy Rice: She doesn't have the energy to do the fun stuff.

[40:59] Mike Abrams: Um, okay. So my million dollar question, and I'm hopeful you're going to agree with me based on what your least favorite cat, but this whole podcast has argued that Grizabella is the wrong Jellicle choice and that there should be other cats considered and going up to the Heaviside Layer. So I want to know for you, Lucy, who are you picking as your Jellicle choice and why?

[41:23] Lucy Rice: I mean, it's tricky, isn't it? I feel like it would be a different answer every show even just by how things are played. Um, but I do, I do always think, like I said earlier, I think Gus deserves better.

[41:41] Mike Abrams: Justice for Gus.

[41:42] Lucy Rice: Love it. But I don't know. Could be different every time.

[41:48] Mike Abrams: So, so I kind of love, let me ask you this question then. Because so I love that you said Gus, because especially after you said that your Gus has got but on the ship is much shorter and doesn't get as much of the love. So I'm like, how would you have said Gus if it wasn't for the Taiwan experience?

[42:03] Lucy Rice: I think it's an interesting question. But I want to ask you the question of how do you think Old Deuteronomy makes the choice every year? Like, is there a criteria?

[42:09] Lucy Rice: I don't know. I feel like it would be different every year. Maybe circumstances are different this year. Is it always someone that's done wrong? Is it always someone that's not necessarily welcomed in the tribe every year? Or is this the niche, the year that they've gone, let's make this a musical? I don't know. So whether it's, this is a special year where he's gone, let's, let's do something. And let's teach everyone a lesson. Maybe. I don't know. I guess that's the only positive way I can look at it. Being like why he chose her to teach the kittens something, maybe even more teach the adults something of, you know, don't hold a grudge, maybe.

[42:54] Mike Abrams: But I don't know. I feel like if you're not part of the Jellicle tribe, can you go to the Heaviside Layer?

[43:03] Lucy Rice: Maybe that's me. Well, yeah, you know, my, I think it's mostly too, because I saw a lot of very young Grizabellas perform, which I think has become a trend over the more recent years. Is that I'm like, let her stay a year. Let her, you know, let her dance in the ball next year. Like, let's, let's put her through, like, she's on stage for 15 minutes. Let her spend a year with her family. Let her go next year. Give her some time with the kittens. Let her and Vicki get to know each other.

[43:30] Lucy Rice: Yeah, I think she left. She's back. Like, let her enjoy her time back. Like, that's the, that should be the reward, not the, you know, the, the, the being the choice.

[43:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah, because it's just, it's just a bit like, there you are, you're the choice, but you're gone now. So then what, what have they learned? Did your cast ever talk about it or think about, like, who could be the choice? Like, hey, this is my turn. Today's my day.

[43:55] Lucy Rice: Actually, no, we would have little funny moments on stage during like, like Old Deuteronomy, for example, and he's talking to us and saying, like, the Jellicle choice, and we'd be there going, it's, it's gonna be me, it's gonna be me. So then we'd have little moments like that, but never like properly discussed it, which I'd actually be really interested. Hence, maybe why you're doing this.

[44:15] Mike Abrams: That's my goal.

[44:16] Lucy Rice: Yeah, that's my goal is to get that to be part of the rehearsal process.

[44:18] Mike Abrams: You're doing God's work.

[44:19] Lucy Rice: Like, all right, let's, let's, yeah, I'm trying here to influence the Jellicle choice for everybody else in the future.

[44:27] Mike Abrams: This has been so much fun. How can people stay in touch with you and see all those incredible TikToks and everything else?

[44:34] Lucy Rice: Well, my TikTok and my Instagram are both Lucy Rice 98. It's the best way of finding me.

[44:42] Mike Abrams: But yeah, that's basically it. Thanks for having me.

[44:46] Lucy Rice: Yeah, this has been so fun. I will link that and thanks for sharing your stories and all the different experiences you got to have and doing it so shortly after coming back from Taiwan. I'm sure that was a little bit of a, you know, a whirlwind to finish and get back home.

[45:02] Lucy Rice: Yeah, definitely. But it's so nice to talk about it when it's still fresh, and it's well, and to be able to look back on it, definitely and think about, especially even the ship memories too. So thanks for having me.

[45:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah, well, thank you. And thanks, everyone else, for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Cats experience. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads at TheWrongCatDied or check out our website, TheWrongCatDied.com.