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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpn.fm, to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the wrong one died. I'm the wrong one died. I welcome to the

[0:28] Mike Abrams: wrong cat died the podcast. Break down the cat section. Fee, I'm your host, Mike habrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was tantamount in the Hamburg production of Cats in Germany in the 90s. So welcome. Lynette Tompkins, Engel, thank you for joining me. Thank you. I love talking to anybody that's done it in German, because it fascinates me to do it in another language, especially if it's not your first language. So I want to get to that, but I always got to start at the beginning. When did you first see cats? When did you first learn about it like, what was your introduction before you ended up in the show? Okay,

[1:00] Speaker 2: I was obsessed. Obsessed. I was obsessed. Okay, okay, as a dancer, I had been doing musical theater. Yeah, I might as well just full disclosure, I graduated from college in 1984 and I started, I guess came, yeah, I was from New York, came back to New York, started auditioning, and of course, I auditioned for cats, because as a dancer, that's what you do. And you know, the show's weird. I saw it. It's really weird, but as a dancer, there's so much dancing in it. So I was I definitely saw it when it first opened. Okay, so you saw Broadway production. I saw Broadway production

[1:42] Mike Abrams: when you were in high school or after high school, or younger, after, okay, so after high school,

[1:51] Mike Abrams: in the 80s

[1:51] Speaker 2: sometimes. So, I mean, it was probably it was after college, okay, so I was obsessed with it, you know. So I was got to do the show, and I went to the auditions, and I, you know, I did pretty well, but I just didn't get it, you know. And I would dream about it, and my friends thought I was absolutely insane. They kept on saying, Lynette, there's so many other shows out there, and I'd get another show, but I'm like, It's not cats. And so finally, I did get cats in? I think it was 92 Yeah, in Hamburg.

[2:28] Mike Abrams: Okay, yeah. So I want to go back to you're seeing it as a dancer. You're seeing it as a dancer. Yes, you're, at this point, a professional, if you're in your career, and you know that this is a realm of possibility, yes, when you first saw it the first time, did you kind of know what you were going into like, or did you just know, is this like phenomenon? Because it really pretty early in its run, versus now, where there's 40 plus years people have an opinion. You

[2:54] Speaker 2: mean, did I know what the show was? Yeah, I feel like I did okay, maybe because I probably auditioned for it before I saw it, got it, yeah, I think I auditioned for it before I saw it, but I heard about it. I knew people who were in it, you know, you take dance classes, you meet people, you audition, you meet people, you work, you meet people. So I probably knew people who were in it to me, the, you know, the Broadway production, the later tour, had some of the best dancers in New York City in it. And, you know, some people say, Oh, the dancing so weird, and it's not natural, and oh my gosh, you know. But for me, I don't know. I love the music, I love the choreography, and I really just wanted to do it. That was kind of, I think, of all of the shows that I saw, I wanted to do that one more than anything else. And I kept on. I mean, I was working, I was getting shows, and I was thinking, but it's not cats, yeah. So when I finally did get cats, I didn't hesitate. You know, definitely, I was already in Europe. I was already in

[3:59] Mike Abrams: Europe. Did you have a certain cat that you were like, you know, when you saw I was like, I want to be this particular dancer. Was it just, I'm it's all amazing. And,

[4:08] Speaker 2: no, I did not. And also, as I said, there's this huge backstory to cats, which I didn't know, because nobody knows unless they

[4:15] Mike Abrams: do it. Oh, we're gonna get there. We're gonna get there. Yeah. So,

[4:19] Speaker 2: no, I didn't all I just, I just wanted to do it. It didn't matter to me. It didn't matter if I was a swing, it didn't matter what I did. I

[4:26] Mike Abrams: love it because it's fascinating. I think back to the eras of cats, because there are, it feels like there's like, almost sections of it, and the time that you're talking about it. This is pre YouTube, pre social, yeah, everything. So all that you have is either you saw it or I didn't think about the angle you're saying, which is, like, you're in Audition rooms, and someone had just done it, and they can tell you a little bit about, like, Oh, I was tantamount. Here's what you need to know about, like, this crazy story, exactly. You know, it's like, totally different than the, you know, what a 5000 Wikipedia page? Huge fan site that exists today in the clips that are all over the internet. And

[5:05] Speaker 2: every time you audition for it, they do the same piece of choreography at the show. So, you know, then I felt like, Oh, I know this section of the ball, because that's what they were teaching at the audition every single time. And then for callbacks, they would do a different number. So, yeah, do

[5:22] Mike Abrams: you remember what part of the what part was the audition I do?

[5:30] Mike Abrams: so I've heard it all, but, like, I don't know what that means. Like, I'm not you could, you could pinpoint the section of the ball, tell me that's Colin. I'd be like, cool, yeah. I have no idea what you're talking

[5:38] Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's pretty dancy. It's pretty hard. And I think we might have gone into judders. So the Copeland, you know, yeah, now I'm remembering it starts with Copeland, and I believe we went into judders. So that's two parts of the ball, because every, every part is sectioned and named. And yes, and, you know, they're named differently in different countries. I did not know that, yeah. So, I mean, most of the names stay the same. So Copeland was Copeland. Judders was judders. But I believe in the States, there's a section called American Airlines. And in Germany, it was Lufthansa, that maybe it wasn't American, but it was united or something. It was some American airline, but in Germany, it was called Lufthansa. That section

[6:24] Mike Abrams: that is so fun. So, yeah, so we're just gonna tweak it like we know we need an airplane right section right here. We're just gonna call it local. I'm wondering if they did the same thing in other countries too. If you know they probably did.

[6:36] Speaker 2: They probably did. And the names of each of the sections were so sort of random. There was one part called washing machine. There's a, you know, girls upstage, girls downstage. Let me see. Oh, I can't even remember all of them, Warsaw. Now, I wonder if it was Warsaw all over the world, yeah,

[6:54] Mike Abrams: so that that's the part. I don't know. I'm sure there's people listening to this, who know? Yeah. Oh, definitely. But that is fun. I love the American Airlines, and I think those American

[7:09] Mike Abrams: Now we're now, we're stuck in the US with just a handful, but back in, back in the day, these are multiple choices. They're all the regionals. And, yeah, yeah, that's okay, so that's fun. Okay, I want to fast forward, though, so now you get the role. And okay, and you you have two things I think that are really wild to deal with that I can't even wrap my head around. So one, one I can. One is the, as you've said, there is a deep story that you've got to learn because you've just been learning dance numbers and have seen it. But what is the actual plot? And then the second thing is, you've got to learn it in German. You've got to learn a whole nother version of singing the songs that you that you know some of them, or you probably know a lot of it, but not in a totally different language. That's not your first language, exactly.

[7:52] Speaker 2: And at the point that I when I got the German show, you know, and I had to move to Hamburg, and and it was one of those I had been doing. Um, there was a huge international tour of West Side Story. It was, this is around the time that Jerome Robbins Broadway was on Broadway and, or maybe at a closer, bunch of people who had done the Broadway show who were doing this pretty amazing international tour of West Side Story that was going all over Europe in English. So that's how I got to Europe. While I was there, we actually were in Hamburg for two months, and a friend of mine was in Katz Hamburg, so I saw it in German, which I had never seen before. And so I auditioned there, and that's when I got it. But I literally my contract was over for West Side Story in January, and it started for cats in February. Wow. So I flew home, just packed, repacked, flew to Hamburg, and I stayed with my friend for a little bit until I could find an apartment in Hamburg. And it was the longest rehearsal period. If any show I have ever done, it was nine weeks, which is a lot, nine weeks of rehearsal, nine weeks of rehearsal, most of the cast, almost all of the cast, were German foreigners who did not speak German. Yeah. So we had, I think I had an half hour to an hour of a phonetics lesson with a private phonetics coach every single rehearsal day to learn, I had to learn, you know, the whole score is sung, and everybody sings pretty much everything. It's a lot of text. And I couldn't, I didn't know German. I couldn't read German. So I wrote. I sat with the phonetics coach, and I wrote exactly every word what it sounded like. I wrote it on top of my score, and I had to memorize it that way. Yeah. And the phonetics had to be really good, because it, you know, it was, this was a show in German, and German people are coming to see it, and if they can't understand what you're saying, that was a big problem. So we really worked. Art on the phonetics. I ended up staying in Germany for a very, very long time, and so my phonetics is quite good because of that. I think because I had this, you know, individual instruction,

[10:13] Mike Abrams: yeah, so did you pick up some of the language?

[10:16] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah. Because I got married, I lived there. My son was born in Germany. I did a lot of other shows in Germany because as a certain thing sort of boomed after a certain bit of time, and a ton of shows came at that point when I was there. I think it was just starlight and Phantom and, yeah, Starlight and Phantom and cats, but then it was Beauty and the Beast and Joseph and all these other shows. So I was lucky. I got to do a lot of them. Oh, that's fun. But cats was the first one that I did in German. And, yeah, I mean, it was, it was really weird. And I think the first time I saw the show, I'd seen the show so many times in English, you know? And I sat there, and the first line of the show is in English, is, Are you blind when you're born. And so I'm listening the whole set looks exactly the same. Everything is exactly the same as the Broadway production. And then I hear best you blend by Geburt. And that was the first line that manga strap sings in in the show. And it just threw me. It was just so weird, you know, having heard this show so many times in English,

[11:25] Mike Abrams: yeah, yeah. I mean, I I've kind of thought the same way of like, when I first heard that it was going to be in other languages, which, which, of course, makes sense, like, you know, you adapted to, you know, something this big, and that has been running for that long. But then I kind of was thought back to, well, you know, this is the story that when I first saw it in the US, you know, it was, it was the revival, and there were a lot of tourists that that weren't speaking English in the audience, at least. So yeah, all these wasn't their first language, or wasn't the language that they were conversing with each other when they were talking before the show. And then when I walked out, I was like, Well, yeah, that makes sense, because you don't really need to fully hear everything to follow the plot like it's just not necessarily told. Yeah, quote, unquote plot, so it's not really told. So I am kind of curious, when you're going through this process, you obviously have to learn the phonetics, you have to learn the dance, and you have to learn the singing, and you have to learn all of this, but you also have to learn your character. Yes, how, like, how did you learn that for, like, how did you learn it on was it? Was it in pieces of where it's, like, I'm gonna tell you all the story and then we're gonna go into the dance and the singing, or was it figure out the dancing and then let's figure out the manner? It

[12:33] Speaker 2: was all kind of at the same time, all blurred together. Yeah, it was all together. It was, you know, you look at your your rehearsal schedule, and it could be okay. I'm in the dance studio for this amount of time, I'm in a singing lesson, then I have phonetics. But we also had a residential director, a resident director, and she was responsible for the acting part. Okay? So we had, oh, when I joined, I have to say, when I joined the company, it was a huge changeover, because people generally had a one year contract, and that year, there were a lot of new people coming into the show. So, you know, it was, it was a lot, there were a lot of people. So we would have these rehearsals with our resident director, and she would sit down, and she would start from the beginning and tell us the story, and talk about the relationships between the cats, and talk about, you know, she would talk about who we were individually, who tantamount was, who corcott was, Vicky, abombie, all of them, and how they all fit into the show. And it was, it was serious, yeah.

[13:33] Mike Abrams: So what do you remember from that? And then also, was there anything that you I think we'll start with this question first, when you first heard that, having seen the show, having been, you know, a fan of the show, what was the moment? We were just like, I never knew that. All of it,

[13:48] Speaker 2: pretty much all of it, okay? I mean, I think when I saw the show, all I knew was Grizabella dies and goes to Cat heaven. There's a there's some fights, there's the sexy cats, and there's a lot of little kittens running around, and that's about all. That's it. Yeah, I didn't even think of story because it didn't. It doesn't seem like there's a story when you watch it and you don't know there's a story. You're just saying, oh, there's a lot of dancing going on sets. Pretty cool, you know what I mean. And I like the music. And clearly, there's this huge thing at the end where Grizabella goes up in the sky and sings the big song. That's it. Yeah, there's really didn't know, and maybe I might have talked to some friends who had done it, but, I mean, it wasn't like that was the first thing that you talk about. Let me tell you the backstory of cats and what you know, who all these creatures are and what personalities are. That's

[14:42] Mike Abrams: all I talk about. So that's or here, yeah. Okay, so what was, what was the tantamount story you were

[14:49] Speaker 2: in? Okay, so the tantamount story is that she is a twin with corco Pat, and they are the mystical cats who sense things. But. Or anything happens. So first of all, it was tricky, because you, you get in sync with your partner, who's the twin, because you have to move together all the time. Yeah, you do the same thing all the time. It's not choreographed, but you kind of, after a while of working together, you sort of start to move together and feel what one person is going to do, whether it's walking across the stage or crawling across the stage, so that. So what they were both meant to be was these kind of intuitive cats who can sense whenever anything's going to happen. So for example, when, when they're there, I think in the second act, there's a Macavity comes on and there's a big fight. The the twins kind of know that's going to happen. They know that Grizabella is going to come on stage before she comes on stage. And they can sense something. It sounds so weird when I'm talking, because I did this totally seriously. Yeah, so that was there. And they are not, they're not quite grown up, but they're not quite babies. The babies are comfortable and Victoria and Mungo and rump, those were the baby babies, yeah, and the grown ups are, you know, bomby and grissy and all of those. But so we were sort of the in between ones, and we had to move a certain way as well. So the twins, and, interestingly enough, the twins were not in the in the tour, in the national tour. I think that what they pared it down. So they, they, I think those were, yeah, twins

[16:35] Mike Abrams: get cut. Twins get they get out in a lot of places when they need to. They

[16:40] Speaker 2: do? Because they don't have a special number or anything like that, but they are like, do pretty much all the dancing. Yeah, all of the dancing. But we also had to crawl in sync together. And we were always crawling these long crawls. It wasn't like a scampery Crawl, it was a long so we had, at least in Hamburg, we had special knee pads because it was, it was a lot on the knees. I mean, everybody was a lot on the knees, but I feel like maybe the twins were a little bit more on the knees than others, yeah. So my knee pads were about that long and very thick, yeah. So, I mean, I enjoyed doing it. It was fun for me my second year to cover other goals. But there's something special, you know? The only thing is that you do. You really have to get along with your partner, yeah, and the entire show together. So when a swing is on, I mean, the swings were amazing. And, you know, they kind of would follow the person who was the first cast person. And also, because in Hamburg, we had so many swings that we got swung out of, we had four show weekends, and we generally got swung out. If you were first cast, you got swung out of one of one of the shows on the weekend, so you didn't have to do all four unless there were people were out. So, you know, nine times out of 10 I would have a cover on, plus we had vacation, so there was always a cover on and people were injured. Wow, we're out sick. Yeah,

[18:14] Mike Abrams: the twins are such an interesting piece of the show. I've always used the twins as my example. When someone talks about, like, like, if it's the depth of the show, yeah, because that's a cat that I would say not a non super fan, or a non fan is gonna have any idea the name, oh no, or where they are, what they're doing, or what's happening. But the when I saw the show most recently, having learned way too much about this show, yeah, I was most fascinated by watching them, like, jump around a corner faster, or, like, turn their heads before moments happen. Yeah. And it's like, if you know some of these pieces, then everything is so intentional. And that was like, where I'm like, I was a bumble here they get cut because I'm like, that's such a cool little piece of like, almost, you know, they know everything. They know what's going to happen. They have this, like telepathic ability to understand everything. And that's just not at all. The first time anybody sees it, catches any of this. No,

[19:13] Speaker 2: you'd have to know. But, I mean, I guess some of the other cats are more obvious, obvious what they what their sort of personality is, or, you know, their role in the show, kind of, yeah,

[19:23] Mike Abrams: well, there's the song cats too. Like, that was when I first started. I'm like, well, there's the one where they just sing their names over and over again. Like, at some in some capacity, they all pretty much sing their name. And there's a couple that perform a song, but they're, you know, on stage for, like, I think the Macavity song, it's like, you get to pretty much learned about bombing demeanor, right? But, but there's a bunch of other cats, and then, especially in the opening number, there's all the ensemble characters that are dancing that like have new names. And there's just so much constantly happening, yep, that unless you take the time to learn it or pay attention to it or read it, you're not gonna follow. No. Rest of it? No. And so as a as a performer, how much thought goes into when you're on stage? Of like, I've got to tell this, like, telepathic moment, versus like, I just got to dance here, because that's really what people are paying Oh no, it's super

[20:14] Speaker 2: fun, you know, to kind of and you know, as a performer, the show is never the same every day, right? You're always doing something different, or you find something some fun way to play or use your mystical abilities in some fun way. So, yeah, I mean, it's all one thing, whether it's the singing and the dancing and being the character. I mean, I would say dancing. I mean, I just dance. I mean, tanta mile as a character doesn't come out in the actual dancing, but I don't know that anyone's character comes out in the actual dancing when it's a hard dance number, especially the ball. Maybe bomby A little bit, because she can kind of lay back a little, you know, because of her character, but everybody else is just, you know, just fighting to get through that number, which is, yeah. So, yeah, I wouldn't say that, but in all of the other moments, because you're pretty much on stage, almost the whole show, yeah? So in in the, you know, in the in the in between places where you're not dancing, or you're listening to someone else singing, or, you know, something else is going on. I was very aware of my character, and very aware, you know, but it became a fun thing. It wasn't, it didn't take it that serious, yeah, you know,

[21:36] Mike Abrams: yeah, you kind of have to, right? You can't go, you can't go too deep into, like, powers. It's just, it's a mechanism,

[21:45] Speaker 2: but it's a fun way to play around, yeah, you know, sort of, as you get to know people, you also form, you know, certain relationships. So I remember there was one year I decided that 10 to my own Bucha teaser were really good friends, you know, okay, we just formed because I was good friends with the person who played rumble, yeah, you know. So we just decided that they had a little, you know, sort of friendship, and maybe 10 to well would get a little annoyed with because she was younger and didn't have those qualities of mystical powers or whatever. So, but you can, I mean, there is the freedom actually in that show, to create your own narrative within the narrative.

[22:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah, well, so that's my that was always my next question, which was to be, what other relationships Did you add or play like you have, you have, probably there's a couple that are like the most built in ones like, there's bomb and Demeter, there's the twins. There's a few that are just like, very clearly you've got to be in this moment with these people, yes, but then there's so much other freedom of where you're on stage and dancing, and you know your stage, but there's moments where you're just sitting and you can have a look to a cat, or a moment to a cat, or a I'm annoyed and maybe growled, yeah. Which ones did you like really lean into? Besides obviously,

[23:02] Speaker 2: Oh, you mean character, yeah. Like, what relationships for tanta? So I would say the younger cats, okay, you know. But you know, I wouldn't say it was only one thing, because it depended on the evening. It really totally different every day, totally as long as you could stay in character. Maybe tanta mile had a moment with bombie, you know, and maybe Bobby was annoyed with her, or maybe Bobby embraced her at that moment. So there is. It wasn't the same. It wasn't the same all the time at all. Yeah, yeah. Could have been anybody.

[23:37] Mike Abrams: That adds to my thought, which is, like, I've always kind of really felt that this is like, it's a cold but it's like it's a family too. So yes, so it's almost like, you know what? We're all family. One or two of them are annoying, but they they're gonna go in waves one night, they might be the one I'm exactly love hanging out with. Another night, they might be the one I can't stand. But we're all family.

[24:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I had one friend. Oh my gosh, this is probably, well, I will say it, because cat San Brock closed, but he was so fun. He was, I think he was, he covered a couple of things, but whenever he was Alan, so we, I don't know, we had a moment during the Tugger dance. And there was the Tugger dance was always super fun because it was choreographed. But then there were these moments that were free dancing, so somehow we would always connect doing those, because the way I where I was on stage, I wasn't necessarily next to core capatl, but you know, so in those free dancing moments, he would whisper something to me, and it would be like model walk, and we would incorporate a model walk into the free dancing, and then go back into the choreography. So that's what I say. Those kind of things, for some reason, we kind of connected during that part of the show. Now, that was nothing to do with character. Yeah, that was. Is fun.

[25:00] Mike Abrams: No, that's, that's really fun, though, because, like you do, there is a loose plot, and there is the loose interpretation of each character, but then there's a lot of open ended, like, oh

[25:10] Speaker 2: my god, it could be that. So much that's open Yeah? So much. I mean, it's pretty much, almost everything is open ended, except for the choreography. Yeah, you know, but I

[25:19] Mike Abrams: think they're staging too, right? Like, you know, that's where a lot of these relationships, at least from, the fans come from, are, well, these two are next to each other right now, and because of that, they're gonna look or, yeah, I think that almost influences everything more. Or, you know, who lifts Victoria is, like, their stuff, or who's the first one to touch because, well, like a lot of those, like, those things are super

[25:40] Speaker 2: important that they're staged, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And even what I mean as 10 to Bell, she has a couple of solo lines, and that even the choreography for that was staged. I think the second line was right before Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy comes on stage for the first time for the Old Deuteronomy song she sings, I believe it is Old Deuteronomy, because she senses that, yeah. And there's a little bit of a choreographic moment where she she rises and sings that line, and then she sinks back to the floor and has a moment with quarterback. So, you know, that was always there. Yeah, that was always

[26:22] Mike Abrams: there. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. I want to pivot a little bit to Sure, the some of the funny, weird, memorable, random things from doing this show. Like, I think one thing I've loved hearing from everyone is, like, especially on tours and different things. Like, there's some chaos that goes with something like this that doesn't you know, like live theater. What happened? So what do you remember? What were some of the memorable moments, the funny moments, the like, oh, I can't believe this happened, or this fan interaction, or this stage interaction, or, let's hear some of those.

[26:58] Speaker 2: Sure. Okay, this was well into cats. I remember my first time on as Bombay Lorena, and I was really excited, and I was nervous, and she her opening not, I can't remember, what did she sing in English? It was, were you whittington's friend? And she has to do a big leg kick when she comes out right downstage. And I had so much energy and was so excited to go on as bombie The first time I came out, I kicked so hard. I kicked my leg out from underneath me. Fell on my back like a roach like this, you know. And right as I'm singing the word friend, which was Freund in German. So it sounded like like that. And then I rolled over really quickly to pretend that didn't happen. And I looked out in the audience, and sitting, I guess in the second row, were two fans. They were teenage fans who were always there every weekend, always there. And I saw I saw them Look at me. Because, you know, maybe if you hadn't seen the show, you might have thought

[28:06] Mike Abrams: that planned, yeah, but they

[28:09] Speaker 2: knew, they knew. And I remember just looking at them, and they looked at each other and gave each other a funny look. And I just had to, you know, I do remember that. And I also, we had a dance captain at that point he was super intimidating, amazing dance captain, but super intimidating. And when I walked off stage at the end of the number, he just looked at me and he said, yeah, nice fall. Lynette. So that was one thing that was pretty funny or fun. Oh, okay, I do. I mean, this was a me, but this, I will never forget this, because a lot of you know, a lot of the numbers have a lot of lyrics, and I remember the most awfully song before most of these comes out, Tugger sings it, yeah, and there's a lot of backups, like that kind of thing. And there was a guy who had just learned the part of Tugger. He was American, and so he started singing as a great singer. Forgot all the lyrics in German, forgot them all, so he just right at the top of the song. So he just started to sing like that, and we all literally just cracked up. I mean, did not help him, did not just watched him die.

[29:28] Mike Abrams: Wow, nobody jumped in to sing the words. We didn't know

[29:32] Speaker 2: them because they were tuggers lyrics, so we just did the backups. You know,

[29:40] Mike Abrams: that's kind of fun. I guess that's a little different, because I'm sure do you like you probably know the lyrics are. I just assume that you probably know some of the lyrics when it's in English, but when it's not in English, I probably know them.

[29:51] Speaker 2: I knew some of them. I mean, after we heard it first, yeah, you're ready to go. But, I mean, we were hoping he was gonna

[29:57] Mike Abrams: figure it out. Jump in and. Actually

[30:00] Speaker 2: jump in on it, yeah, yeah, yeah, our mics weren't turned on at that point. Yeah, that's true.

[30:05] Mike Abrams: That's true. You're the you're the backup vocals there,

[30:10] Speaker 2: exactly. Yeah. So there's so many things. I mean, I think in live theater, things can just go off, or something doesn't work, or someone's mics on when they're backstage. But that's not typical to cats. That's pretty typical. That's everything. Yeah, I'm just trying to think of things typical to oh, oh, okay, so this is typical to Hamburg cats. So when we were off a show, so if you were first cast and you had your off show, or it was either you could go home or you had to cover. But what they allowed us to do when we were covering was to go out to eat. And now just think their cell phones were not a big thing then. So there were two places that we could have food during the show, and they would call us if they needed us.

[31:02] Mike Abrams: So you were sitting like down the street, uh huh,

[31:05] Speaker 2: and you would get the so, you know, the stage manager or somebody from the House would call the restaurant and say, I need to speak to whomever. You need to come back on so and so got hurt. So you'd race down the street. Have to get into makeup and and wig as fast as you can, and literally scooch onto the stage. How

[31:27] Mike Abrams: so you This is when you're covering. So how is like, once a week? Like, how often are you hitting at this? I as a, this sounds like a ploy for this restaurant. Like, what was? Yeah.

[31:37] Speaker 2: So I as a, as a, as a cover, maybe once a week, but a lot of times I didn't go because I got nervous. Yeah, I was I did have to go on when I was called from the restaurant, and it was really stressful. It was really, it was literally around the block. But then you have to run, go upstairs to your dressing room, you know, go into the into the mascot, which is a place where they do your pin curls and put the wig on and do your makeup as fast as you can and get into costume and literally run on stage as fast as you can.

[32:03] Mike Abrams: I'm trying to wrap my head. So this is, like, it's Saturday afternoon, yeah, and you are, you know, your potential cover. So it's like, instead of sitting at home, you can go home

[32:15] Speaker 2: if you were covering, okay, because you're too far, yeah, you're too far. You could go if you were off for the show, you could go home, but then you're not covering, but you covering, you could only be in the theater, or you could be at one of these

[32:26] Mike Abrams: two restaurants, or sitting

[32:30] Mike Abrams: So do you remember the two restaurants? Was it? What type of food was it? Was good. One was

[32:35] Speaker 2: Chinese. It was called manha, and it was Chinese. And the other one, I can't remember the name, but it was Italian, okay? And, of course, you might have a glass of wine, yeah,

[32:47] Mike Abrams: one, one's not gonna hurt,

[32:49] Speaker 2: or a big plate of pasta, and then you have to run and get on stage. And I remember I was, I was with one of my colleagues, and she got called, and she had to go on for rumble teaser, because the rumple teaser got got hurt during the during the Mongo number, which is in the first act. Yeah, so I remember she said, when she got the call, she said, Well, if I walk, I'll miss doing the ball. If I run, I have to do the ball. She ran, she got on in time. I

[33:22] Mike Abrams: was gonna say I could see a little stroll from restaurant there. Like, oh,

[33:26] Speaker 2: you know, I mean, you just had a big bowl of pasta, yeah. Really gonna want to do the ball.

[33:33] Mike Abrams: That is such a fun Yeah? Is that that's not common? And like, I mean, that obviously changes now, where everyone's got their cell phone or,

[33:40] Speaker 2: yeah, exactly. And I don't even think that the theaters in Germany do that anymore. First, when I joined cats, it was in its seventh year, huge success in Hamburg, and so we were kind of spoiled as performers. And yeah, so we had a lot of privileges. It

[33:56] Mike Abrams: just sounds so mafia. I'm like listening to you being like, all right, I gotta go sit. And then, you know, the restaurant gets called, and they come to your table. I can, like, imagine, like, whispering in your ear, like, you gotta go.

[34:10] Mike Abrams: You've gotta make it. There's someone got hurt in the first, first act. Exactly,

[34:14] Speaker 2: exactly, that is fascinating. It's really funny. And the speed with which, I mean, when I first got to the show, you know they they have to teach you, because there's very specific makeup for each cat, very specific, and the makeup is actually specific to the cat. So tantamount, corco Pat, we were the Oh, I think what were the only cats whose makeup was not symmetrical, so one side was a little bit different from the other side to make us more mysterious looking, you know, but there it's very, very specific, the colors, the decorate, you know, the design. And so when I first was learning how to do the makeup, it took a really long time for me to do it and get it right. But then after a while, you know, I mean, I. Did the show for three years, whatever,

[35:03] Mike Abrams: pretty quick, yeah, yeah. So you could do it after your bowl, pasta and wine and ready. I

[35:11] Mike Abrams: okay, let's do a little bit of rapid fire here, or for the musical. So if you could go on for one night, any character, whether male, female, you could do it. You couldn't do it. Who would you want to just do one night as as performing as Demeter. Demeter. So you've, did you get to do Demeter when you're covered? Yes. Okay, so you want to, I love Demeter. Go back. Be skittish. Have that moment. Loved it. Yeah. Awesome. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats?

[35:40] Speaker 2: Do you mean to characters that's

[35:43] Mike Abrams: a reform just just like if you were, if you as Lynette are are meeting the personality of this one. Which one do it would be your best friend, and which one would you absolutely be annoyed by? All times?

[35:56] Speaker 2: Okay, I think I'd be a little bit annoyed by skimble shanks. I don't know why. I don't know why, because, I mean, he's pretty friendly and something, um, yeah, so, yeah, skimbleshanks would not have been my favorite cat. Um, let's see. Who would I loved? Which cat do i Ah, huh, that's a hard one. I think I might say Demeter again, because there's something about her that's vulnerable and kind of deep. And, you know, the idea that she, I don't know if you've heard her backstory, she's been raped by mccaviddy, and that there's still this sort of attraction, but fear, you know, yeah, and that bomby takes care of her, I don't know. I just, I really, I like that part. I like the way I love her, her, her number, yeah, and I love when I played Demeter. I just, I enjoyed being her throughout the show. I mean, I really did love, love tantamount. I did because that was mine, you know. But it was really fun to go on this Demeter and I didn't have to do the Siamese number, which is the worst number in the history of musical theater. So glad they cut it out. It's kind of it's currently racist, yes, I mean, horrible. I can't believe what I think about it, you know. But Bobby and Demeter did not have to do the Siamese number because they were getting ready for my cavity. Yeah, okay, and I really did not enjoy doing that number, yeah,

[37:28] Mike Abrams: yeah. That number got cut, yeah, thank goodness, as it should have, you know. I

[37:33] Speaker 2: mean, even back in the 90s, you know, I was like, this ain't right?

[37:38] Mike Abrams: Yeah, there's, there were some things that needed updated, and they made the call as they should have, yeah, maybe later than they should have, but, you know, they made the progress there. Yeah. I think it's an interesting piece now, where, if you think about the storytelling it goes into, you lose part of that, part of gusto, like, even if you would have cut, I kind of, like, was the pirate scene in or no. So that's the thing, is, I go to peaks and polls instead? No, yeah. And I kind of almost wish that they could have cut the Siamese part and still maybe told some of that, like,

[38:08] Speaker 2: didn't have her song. No, that's such a pretty song. Yeah.

[38:12] Mike Abrams: So there's not the operatic section in that call. It's like, it's changed. So it's definitely, it's a different version of it, yeah, with how it's gone. So there's some, yeah, there's definitely a big group that is the between the different choreographers that have some pieces, but they've also kind of re did some of even the storytelling when they cut that out.

[38:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess you have to, yeah, not a ton, but a little bit. But you miss the whole story of Gus. Then

[38:38] Mike Abrams: you get Gus story. But then instead of going into the, like, example of playing in the as growl Tiger, there's no ground Tiger and girl bone, it goes into peaks and polls Okay, okay, so it still works, but it's different. You know?

[38:52] Speaker 2: It's a different way to go into peaks and pollicules, yeah, in the first act, I think

[38:57] Mike Abrams: they, yeah, I think they, I'm pretty sure this is where this goes back to where I'm like, I think I'm right, and I could be totally wrong. If I'm wrong, I send messages time

[39:05] Speaker 2: I don't remember. I feel Manka strap sang peaks and pollicules, and I believe it's been so long, I think it was in the fight camera, yeah.

[39:13] Mike Abrams: Okay, what's your favorite song from the show? My

[39:18] Speaker 2: favorite song? Hmm, all right, Macavity. Macavity,

[39:22] Mike Abrams: yeah, that's my answer right now, yeah.

[39:25] Speaker 2: But you know what? I really like the opening. I just the opening is super exciting. It's super exciting with all the cats come and, you know the green eyes section in the beginning, which is so fun, and then to gather on so you come from the audience and gather on stage, and then that, that opening song, I really it's exciting, yeah, but I do love Macavity. There's just something about that I love. Did you

[39:52] Mike Abrams: ever scare somebody so much in green eyes? I like they. Did you have any moments during that?

[39:57] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you always scare people, yeah? I mean, the thing is, you don't leave. Could scare people if they didn't have had no idea about the show. Yeah, most people have some idea. But Oh yeah, definitely I didn't. I wasn't ready. Oh, so were you? Were you freaked out? I was so glad

[40:13] Mike Abrams: I was not on the aisle. I was three seats in, or four seats in, and I like, yeah, I was, I was very freaked out. But I've also heard some like, in the revival, like, someone got punched and someone got, you know, like, because, you know, they jumped out, and it was, like, someone's

[40:29] Speaker 2: reflex, careful, yeah, but no, I mean, I've, you know, especially with kids, they're like, Yeah, because it's unexpected, yeah. Also, I remember sort of when during the Tugger number, when Tugger would go in the audience and bring somebody up, and that always made me a little bit nervous, because you could sometimes see that there were people who were like, no, no, no, I don't want to, you know. And sometimes the tuggers could be aggressive and say, no, no, you can dance with me or whatever. Yeah, I

[40:57] Mike Abrams: feel like you've got at that point knowing, because they've done that in a bunch of show like, you know that happens. So like, that happens in six there's a moment where they interact with a fan member. And I'm, I was, it's always if someone in the front row, and I'm like, is it always that seat? Because the first time I saw it, I'm like, I don't ever want to be in that seat as someone who does not want to be there. But then I've seen it a couple times that every time it's like, Nope, it's a different person. So I think they're eyeing that's true. Who's gonna have fun with this? So I always kind of hope that you have that. But yeah, yeah, I was, I wasn't ready. They don't do it in every production right now because of COVID. So COVID, they stopped going out into the crowd in certain productions. That wasn't even green eyes. Yeah, so green eyes was they basically start on stage. So the green eyes flash, but on stage, they weren't around the theater. Oh, that's stupid, I know, right? It's, I think it's kind of an interesting piece. I think they've done it in a few places. I know the US tour didn't do it. So there we'll see how, how long,

[41:54] Speaker 2: and it was super fun. Yeah, that was I love. You know, on a Sunday night when you're tired and you know, that's kind of a way to get yourself oh, okay, we're doing this show now.

[42:07] Mike Abrams: Yeah, you're like, right in somebody's face. You realize who you're performing for.

[42:11] Speaker 2: I don't know if anybody told you this, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't just Hamburg, but the cats aren't allowed to meow. I did not know that. No, no, so that's interesting. Yeah, we never, we were told you cannot make a meow sound. You know, we never meowed.

[42:30] Mike Abrams: Hmm, so what the reason? Yes, did you like? We

[42:34] Speaker 2: just weren't meant to make cat sounds. We could look like we were making cat sounds. But I think they, they felt, at least in Hamburg, that it cheapened it, okay, a little bit, but, you know, yeah, that it became too obvious. You know, that cats do this, or cats do that, that we they wanted it to come more from inside, rather than hissing loudly or meowing,

[42:57] Mike Abrams: interesting, yeah, I don't think I've heard that, or I didn't know that. I mean, maybe that was

[43:02] Speaker 2: a hamburger, or maybe I made it up, and I'm remembering, and maybe someone will say, No. Lynette, everyone

[43:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah, everyone else,

[43:09] Speaker 2: yeah, you didn't get that. Ma'am, right, no, but I do remember that. Yeah, that's

[43:13] Mike Abrams: fun. Yeah. Okay, my fun question is, is I know you're currently a teacher, yes. Which cat do you think would be the best teacher? Oh,

[43:21] Speaker 2: that's a really interesting which cat would be the best teacher? Which cat has the most wisdom,

[43:28] Mike Abrams: or would maybe come in the classroom? Or, you know, it depends on what type of teacher you want to you're walking into.

[43:36] Speaker 2: So I could see Bombay Lorena being a good teacher, just because she'd be fun. She's older. She knows a lot. She's been through a lot. Okay, gonna say it like it is, and she's not gonna be intimidated by a bunch of teenagers. Yeah, let's see. I don't know about Grizabella.

[43:56] Mike Abrams: No, no, you can't lie, or she's gonna stand from the school. Yeah?

[43:59] Speaker 2: And I think that she's got, she's too damaged, yeah, I think the

[44:03] Mike Abrams: ones that I thought of for this is, I hadn't thought as much about about Bobby I thought skimble Shanks is my principal probably okay. And I thought Joey, Lauren would be a really good, like, cares for students be there. I don't know how well she'd teach, but she would definitely be caring, caring and caring, and then you've got, like, Old Deuteronomy, and Gus coming in is like, and bust and bust for his, like, guests, guest speakers. And then Tugger is my substitute, right? He's the one that's rolling on the car and causing chaos. And, like, you don't really want him there, yeah,

[44:36] Speaker 2: he's the fun substitute that every kid's gonna look forward to, because probably you don't do any work.

[44:41] Mike Abrams: Yeah, exactly. Okay. Most important question of this podcast, I have argued with hundreds of people now that I don't think Grizabella should have been the Jellicle choice. So what I want to hear is from you, is if you are acting as Old Deuteronomy for the night and choosing the person that. Choosing, making your pick, who are you picking and why, and what's your criteria and what's your rationale? Okay,

[45:06] Speaker 2: so, but the thing is, you got to think about what the heavy side layer is that it's kind of kitty cat heaven, right? So she's being chosen to have to basically go to heaven. Okay, so wouldn't it have to be somebody who's a little older, or maybe not?

[45:27] Mike Abrams: I think that's a very important first question, which is criteria like, why? Yeah, what is the rationale for how I pick this year, right?

[45:35] Speaker 2: So, I mean, this is, I've got to think about this carefully, because it's got to be someone. I mean, the idea that she was shunned by all the other cats, right out of our hard life, they think she's horrible and old and decrepit and, you know, a waste of whatever. And Deuteronomy kind of saves her. She reaches out to people or to other, to people, to creatures, yeah. So I don't you know what, honestly, maybe she's the one who needs to go or Deuteronomy, but Deuteronomy can't choose himself.

[46:08] Mike Abrams: But can he? When's he done? I mean, monkey starts supposed to be next in

[46:12] Speaker 2: line. Well, monkey starts, you know, he's too young to go, no, no. I

[46:16] Mike Abrams: mean, he's supposed to be next in line. So I feel like when Old Deuteronomy,

[46:19] Speaker 2: Deuteronomy, should send himself up to them. I love

[46:22] Mike Abrams: it. So old dude is track. He's He's gaining steam. He's picked up a couple votes here recently. It's pretty much a Gus Grizabella race. That's the most

[46:35] Speaker 2: Gus or old dude. Yeah? I mean, because you can't send Vicky up there, no, yeah, any of the baby cats, you know, I love it? Yeah, it's

[46:44] Mike Abrams: time. We'll do Ryan, it's your time. Let's, let's give, let's hand over the reins to monk. Exactly the ball can go next year, and then we'll figure out from here on, exactly, exactly? Yeah, I'm assuming your cast never talks about this,

[46:57] Speaker 2: um, you mean about the wrong cat died. Who should

[47:00] Mike Abrams: have been the jealous I was like, did you ever have a debate of, like, my turn? No, no, we

[47:05] Speaker 2: never did. I think we just accepted it. Who goes up

[47:08] Mike Abrams: there? Yeah, that's the story. This is a story. We're just gonna lean into it. I mean, I think we all thought it was corny. Yeah, it's a redemption it's a redemption story. I get

[47:17] Speaker 2: it. Yeah, she didn't do anything bad. It

[47:21] Mike Abrams: depends on what you interpret her time away from the tribe as,

[47:24] Speaker 2: okay, we don't know what she did, so that's where

[47:27] Mike Abrams: every single gris Bell is gonna be like a slightly different version of it. And because it's not, it's not spoken, you know, like it's not said, it's not it's just you knew she left and it was left on bad terms and did bad things, and that's why they're kind of hissing at her. And that is the like, that is the whole that. That is your entire plot of cats. Like, that's the whole thing. There's really nothing else. Well, then

[47:49] Speaker 2: there's the subplots. You know, yes, there's a lot of, there's a lot of subplots, yeah, because grizzly fell isn't actually not on stage that much.

[47:57] Mike Abrams: No, it's like 15 minutes, 16 minutes total. So it's crazy, more reason that she shouldn't be picked, right? She didn't dance the ball. She didn't earn it

[48:07] Speaker 2: out at the end. You know, all fresh, yeah?

[48:13] Mike Abrams: Well, I love any vote that's not for her. That's my I'm slowly trying. I never actually thought about it. So that's, that's what I'm here for. That's what this shows for is asking the questions that nobody else is asking 4040, years later. In this show, I love it.

[48:27] Speaker 2: I love it. It's fun to reminisce, because it really was a very special time. Yeah, yeah. This

[48:34] Mike Abrams: has been so fun to hear stories. I learned some new things I didn't know. I love the ball, the airline ball sections. I love the sitting at a at a different restaurant, waiting for your call, not meowing. I mean all kinds of

[48:49] Speaker 2: things I didn't know. One other thing is, when I joined cats, it was, as I said, it was a big turnover. They had expanded their auditions to Russia, soberg and to Moscow. So they hired about six dancers and singers from Russia who spoke no English and no German, wow. So we had a translator in our in our rehearsals, who translated from Russian to English, or Russian to German. Maybe it was mostly Russian to English. So that was an interesting you know, yeah, and some of them are still, almost 30 years later, still in Hamburg, wow, yeah, yeah. So that's pretty cool, yeah, performers and still working, and probably not the dancers, yeah,

[49:36] Mike Abrams: the singers can keep going. They can have their Isabella. Moment later, the dancers, it's like, yeah, this is physically the ball is hard. Yeah, ball was hard. That is awesome. Well, this has been so much fun. So thank you for fun. Alan, sharing your story, awesome. And thanks everyone for listening to this episode of The Ron cat died, the podcast. Break down the cat. Sash. Feed to follow along, you can subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify or analysis of the podcast. Us on Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok and threads as Ron cat died, or check our website.com, you.