This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:16] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. This will be released after this particular production of Cats ends, but we are recording this today, just one week into the run, all the way from the other side of the world from where I am sitting today. We are very lucky to have this amazing regional production of Cats in Sydney, Australia at the Willoughby Theatre Company. And we have our Quaxo here today. So Sam Larielle-Jones, thank you for joining me.

[0:42] Sam Larielle-Jones: Thank you very much.

[0:44] Mike Abrams: I am excited because you actually told me about this so long ago that I was like, how do you already know that this production is like, the casting must have happened ages before this. It's so much faster and more ahead of what I'm used to hearing. So we're going to get to your production because I know you're a weekend and you are literally going to embark on a two-show day today after we hang up. But let's start with your Cats history. When was the first time you saw it? Was it the movie? Were you obsessed with it? Was it a tour?

[1:14] Sam Larielle-Jones: It's interesting. I have quite a big history with Cats myself. I mean, I loved the original 1998 film production, of course, as many Cats fans do. But I also had the opportunity to work with Geoffrey Garrett, the Skimbleshanks, in that film production. When I was about 12 years old, I was doing Oliver the Musical with Cameron Mackintosh. And he was our resident choreographer for that show. So I had the great opportunity working with Geoffrey Garrett. And it wasn't until we were actually touring the show in Singapore that he actually told us kids that he was in that production. And all of us were wide-eyed and amazed. And we're like, Oh my God, we're working with a famous person. This is amazing.

[2:16] Mike Abrams: Wow. So you didn't know the whole time you've been working with him. You had no idea until a while.

[2:22] Sam Larielle-Jones: No clue.

[2:23] Mike Abrams: And wow. I guess he's in costume. You're in the movie. It's not very clearly him.

[2:30] Sam Larielle-Jones: That's it. And it wasn't until I went to watch it again that I looked at him closely in the film and was like, Oh no, of course it's Geoff.

[2:41] Mike Abrams: That's awesome. Okay. So you said this was when you were 12 years old?

[2:46] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah.

[2:47] Mike Abrams: Okay. And so movies come out. When's the first time, did you get to see it on stage? When's the first time you saw a production?

[2:54] Sam Larielle-Jones: I've actually never seen a live production of Cats before.

[3:00] Mike Abrams: Okay. So I find it interesting because I'm in New York, so there's obviously a lot of different ways to go catch a tour or the Broadway revival and everything else. I know it went through Australia with this tent tour, but that probably, I don't know the dates. It was ages ago. And so it's not something that, you would have been probably really young when that was around.

[3:23] Sam Larielle-Jones: The tent tour was before my time. As far as I'm aware, date-wise, I don't think at that time my family were really into going to see musicals. I've had friends that have done community theatre productions of it previously to me, but I'd never had the chance to actually go and watch them either. And then the most recent production with our good old Street Tugger, I had heard of the change of Street Tugger, and I was like, oh, I'm not liking the sound of this, and sort of did a little bit of a boycott, mainly because I just wasn't okay with that change myself, as I never actually saw that production.

[4:26] Mike Abrams: That's okay. That's interesting. I forgot about, yeah, that one would have been in like 13, 14, probably, time range for you. And yeah, it was very different. It was a different production. It had some changes, for sure.

[4:38] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah.

[4:39] Mike Abrams: Okay, so you, I think the other part too is like, I didn't fully comprehend how far away Australia and Sydney is from everything else in the world until I was in Singapore, and I was like, oh, I'll just go over to Sydney. It's still a nine-hour flight, or eight-hour flight.

[4:53] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah.

[4:54] Mike Abrams: It's not like you're going to quickly just pop over to another country to see a production somewhere.

[4:59] Sam Larielle-Jones: No.

[5:00] Mike Abrams: It's what's in your hometown is kind of all you can see, versus in the US, you can hop on a quick plane for an hour and be in another city to see a tour.

[5:09] Sam Larielle-Jones: Exactly. Absolutely.

[5:11] Mike Abrams: Okay, so that is kind of fascinating. Now, fast forward me to auditioning for this particular production. When did this happen? It feels like it was six-plus months ago, at least.

[5:23] Sam Larielle-Jones: So, we auditioned about three months ago now.

[5:28] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[5:30] Sam Larielle-Jones: So, I had heard of the show happening at least six months ago. So, the company that is putting on the production, Willoughby Theatre Company, I had worked with them as a co-choreographer for a sort of cabaret-style backwards Broadway show that we were putting on. My husband was the musical director for that production. And it was during that run of that show that they'd announced that they were going to do Cats the next year. And I was like, oh my gosh, I haven't danced for about seven-plus years. So, having quite a long break from doing any form of dance and was like, you know what, I'm going to audition for this and I really want to do it, whether I get a role or not.

[6:28] Mike Abrams: Okay, wow. So, you had a seven-year break, and then you're just like, I'm going to go into one of the hardest, most demanding dance shows out there and be ready.

[6:39] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah.

[6:40] Mike Abrams: Okay. Talk to me through the audition process. What's that like? Were you going for a certain Cat? Was it a big open call?

[6:48] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah. So, what they did was, after they'd released the audition pack, they said, look, we're going to be having some choreography workshop days in the lead up to the auditions. Those will run over two days, two weeks prior to the auditions happening. And then they had their dance audition calls. There were about two dance audition calls, and you could sort of choose which night you were going to go for that. And it was a sort of big group dance. So, throughout that workshop phase, we had actually learnt the audition dance all together in a group. There was about, I'd say, within the second workshop, there was probably about 50 or so people that had turned up wanting to join the workshop and wanting to join the show, obviously.

And then, yeah, went into the audition and did the full routine. And then, because there's a bit of tap in the show, also learnt tap on the day of the audition and did that. And then we had our vocal calls on a separate day. Some people had their vocal calls the exact same day as the dance, and I opted in for that, because I did not want to be puffed when I'm trying to sing something to try and get me. At least Munkustrap was one of my choices. So I was like, you know what, I'm going to do my vocal audition the next day, just so I've got a bit of space to breathe and calm down from that dance call. So, yeah, then had the vocal call and had some callback auditions, which was just over one night.

I got called back for three roles, and I think I sang all three of them. To be honest, I probably wasn't as prepared as I probably should have been, which is why I ended up with the role of Quaxo, and it's quite funny. It wasn't until I was listening to your podcast and I heard one of your guests name the role of Quaxo, and I was like, who the hell is this Quaxo character? I've never heard of him before.

[9:36] Mike Abrams: So you will be only the second Quaxo episode that I've had that's devoted to Quaxo. And the first was Echol Kushner, who is an amazing photographer, has a podcast on our network, unbelievable guy, multi-affinate, does just everything in theater, and he did it in high school. And so I actually have some questions, because I've read a lot about Quaxo now, because there is a lot of different versions of it, and a lot of times Quaxo is also part of, it's tied into, let me see if I have it in my notes here, it's tied into another character. So sometimes it's part of, I believe, Mistoffelees. And so it's like if you are going to do the Mistoffelees dance, there is versions where your ensemble dance character is Quaxo, or is named Quaxo.

But it can be pulled. I want to get to the Quaxo stuff in a little bit, though. I'm curious a little bit about the, once you get the role, and it is regional, so you're going to do, what, three and a half, four weeks almost, worth of performances. I think we're one week in when we're recording this. And I'm wondering, tell me a little bit about the, how much of a regional production do you think, and focus on staging, and the choreography, and the dance number, versus plot, and all the different nuances of the story?

[10:57] Sam Larielle-Jones: You know what, it's very interesting. Obviously, on this podcast, you hear all of the professional performers talk about those three words that they get about their character, and all these storylines of the plot, and what it's actually all about, or maybe what it's not actually all about. It's a bit hard to really understand. I think within regional or community theatre, I think you've got a bit more, I guess, flexibility to make the show something that you want it to be. And I'm not sure if you're aware of this, or if anybody else listening is aware of this, but the Really Useful Group and the licensing recently changed the rules with the licensing of Cats, that there's actually not meant to be any more replica productions of Cats.

So with that, I mean, a lot of the times, you'll get those replica productions, and the choreographers will be lazy, and they'll do the exact same choreography from the 1998 film production, which has happened quite a lot here in Australia.

[13:03] Sam Larielle-Jones: That gave our production team quite a lot of scope to figure out what they wanted Cats to look like. So there's been a lot of focus on the set design and on the way that we're actually presenting the show to the audience, because we've got that flexibility. We can have new choreography that's a little bit different, or we can add in specialty stuff like aerials into the show. And so there has been quite a lot of focus on that, for sure.

[13:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So as someone who knew the '98 movie well, what's the main differences that you've seen in your production? Is it some dance numbers? Is it some staging? Is there anything that would be a super fan that's going to sit there and go, oh, that's really different, I noticed that, versus some minor tweaks?

[14:12] Sam Larielle-Jones: You know what? This production is something that you've never seen before. If anybody's really familiar with the '98 production, there is nothing similar to it, except maybe, I guess, the very, very heavy dry ice fog for the heavy stuff.

[14:32] Mike Abrams: All right. So I got to ask, are they recording a version of this ever? Am I going to be able to see it on YouTube at some point?

[14:38] Sam Larielle-Jones: I wish. I wish. Unfortunately, licensing does not allow us to do that.

[14:44] Mike Abrams: Oh, no. I need a bootleg. I shouldn't be calling for that, but I hope someone, because this will be over by the time this comes out, so I can't drive anybody, and I can't quickly fly over to see you. But yeah, I love the tweak. I mean, my whole show is about changing the ending, so if they want to allow the licensing to make some adjustments, there's one way to not make it a copycat, is to change the ending. Okay, this is great. So there's nothing like you've ever seen, compared to the '98 movie.

[15:21] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah, I think if you want to really compare everything, look, the costumes are very on point to do that. So I think your normal unitards and cattails and makeup, that's probably the closest thing that you'll get to the original production.

[15:36] Mike Abrams: Okay, so I kind of love it. I mean, I'm now thinking of all the different things that could be changed. But then at the same time, you're a choreographer, I'm not. I'm like, if you make major dance changes, I'm like, I'm having no idea what you changed. It's still all going to be foreign to me. Compared to if you had a major plot point difference, or you made a character totally... I think that's where you see every once in a while, even the 2019 movie, really changed the persona of Mistoffelees, and that was very noticeable. Is there any of those? Does everyone still fit that same vibe, or is Tugger timid this time, instead of the way Tugger normally is?

[16:24] Sam Larielle-Jones: I think character choices, they're quite similar. Our director worked with the individual lead characters, per se, and said, hey, look, this in your song that you're singing, this is what you're singing about. As Tugger, I want you to be uptight, or I want you to have this sort of persona. So those little bit of direction choices were obviously given to those characters one-on-one during their staging. But the rest of it was really quite interesting, because we've got a choreographer and a director. Obviously, Cats, as you know, is a dancer's show, so really, it is the choreographer's show at the end of the movie. So the choreographer and the director really worked quite well together with trying to figure out what the show was actually going to symbolize, and how these cats were going to actually interact, and why are there cats that are singing and dancing at the audience?

[17:57] Sam Larielle-Jones: At the start of our rehearsal period, we were given a booklet that we were told to sort of print out ourselves, and we got this bit of a synopsis that I thought I might read to you here, because it's quite interesting, and it has gone into so much detail. So starting our rehearsal period, we were greeted with this.

[18:28] Sam Larielle-Jones: Hello, Jellicle Cat. Welcome to the enchanting world of Cats. As we begin rehearsals, we would like cast members to keep three important themes in mind as you prepare, rehearse, and embody your characters with the show. These themes are community, connection, and belonging. Community. In the world of Cats, we find ourselves immersed in the vibrant and mysterious community of the Jellicle Cats, a community of unique characters with distinct personalities, talents, and stories waiting to be told. Community is at the heart of our journey. The Jellicle Cats are not just a random assortment of fur and whiskers. They represent a unified tribe, a close-knit group that supports and uplifts one another.

As we go through this process together, it is going to be important that we yield the power of unity and collaboration, demonstrating that just like the Jellicle Cats, that we stand side by side, allowing our collective brilliances to shine even brighter than before. Belonging. In our production, the quest for belonging takes centre stage. Your characters, each within their own desires and yearnings, seek acceptance and a place where they truly belong. It's our job to bring these journeys to life, invoking the raw emotions and vulnerability that comes with the search for our rightful place in the world. This is an opportunity to tap into your own experiences and empathize with these characters, allowing their yearning for belonging to become our own.

Connection. But it's not just about the individual journeys. It's about forging deep connections with one another and our audience. Whether we're dancing, singing, or simply exchanging knowing looks, it's all about those magical connections between all of us. We all need to show the audience what true connections look like. No words necessarily, just a flip of the tail, a playful wink, a turn of the head, a knowing look, and we'll have them feeling all the feels. And finally, the power of storytelling. Weaving this all together is the power of storytelling. Stories have always connected us, passed down through the ages, weaving cultures together and forging communities. In Cats, we become those storytellers ourselves.

Each cat shares their story, their culture, their journey, their history, and their secrets. And these are not mere introductions. They are the fabric of the show's collective identity. As we unleash the art of storytelling, we create a powerful bond with our audience. Remind them that we are all part of a much bigger story that is life. So buckle up, kittens. Get ready to purr, dance, and rock the stage like never before. Let's make Cats a memory that lasts all nine lives.

[21:21] Mike Abrams: Wow. That is amazing. It's fascinating to hear that. Was that written by your director and choreographer? That was their introduction?

[21:30] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah, that was their introduction.

[21:36] Mike Abrams: It's almost a – I love the idea of, here's this overarching theme. Here's what we're going to do. We have to have this as a way to tell the story. Because we're not going to be able to get into all the nuances and the back and forth. We're not going to have two months to go through every single potential plot line. And so you get this big overarching theme, and then let everyone else do the work from there.

[22:00] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's been the scene within our rehearsal process as well. We have been this one big community together. And we've all been uplifting each other during the rehearsal process. If somebody is struggling with the choreography, we've all been there to help them. And yeah, it's just been quite a beautiful process to be a part of.

[22:31] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It gives you the flexibility to make some choices, to truly act, but stay within this kind of overarching themes that you're given. I love that idea as a good way to kind of allow you to do some stuff, but also give you enough. It also is very clear as I was hearing it, the minute you start talking about the belonging section, I'm like, oh no, this is purely leading towards why we're going to pick Grizabella. So I was like, they're writing this in for me versus if I got to follow that theme, it's going to be real hard to argue against her.

[23:05] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. I want to hear about Quaxo, because I want to know what they told you, and then I want to know they told you what your version is, and then I can tell you a little bit about what I read.

[23:19] Sam Larielle-Jones: Right. Okay. Well, you know what? As I said to you before, I had never heard of Quaxo before now. I honestly was not told anything about who Quaxo is, and I had to make up who he was by myself. So originally when we started rehearsals, I was given the part to do the pas de deux dance with Victoria just before the invitation of the cats.

[24:00] Sam Larielle-Jones: And about two weeks into our dance, starting our dance rehearsals, I actually injured myself, and I gave myself plantar fasciitis. I had to stop dancing, and I was eventually told, it's going to take about eight to twelve weeks for you to fully recover, and we did not have eight to twelve weeks. So that sort of stopped my trajectory of that pas de deux dance, and sort of cut me out of a few other dance numbers just so that I could stay safe. So I've always sort of kept in mind that Quaxo, even though he didn't end up having this dance with Victoria, he's got this love and infatuation for Victoria. She's that new cat who's just ready to be there for the Jellicle Ball.

[25:05] Sam Larielle-Jones: Throughout my process, I've sort of really tried to connect with her quite a lot on stage whenever I've been near her. Okay. So here's what I've read. So I love that because it's not at all what I read. And that's what makes it fun. Basically, what I read about Quaxo is split between two different versions. One version is it's part of Mistoffelees. The other version is that it's just an ensemble character. They want a different name for that particular character. And this is the piece. But there were a couple of things that could have happened during that time. So one was there was a tap off with Jenny Any Dots in a couple of productions that Quaxo does. So it sounds like that's not happening in yours?

[25:56] Mike Abrams: No.

[25:57] Sam Larielle-Jones: Okay. It was the lead Beatle. A lead Beatle. I was like, I read that. I'm sitting there going, like, there's like a tap. I was thinking, like, what is it? Like a Bring It On style tap number between you and Jenny Any Dots. Okay. So that's not one of them. And then the other is just that there's some relation to dancing with Jemima in the back, who I think is now Cillabop in most cases. Right. But is that not true either?

[26:14] Mike Abrams: No, no, no.

[26:15] Sam Larielle-Jones: Okay. Yeah. It's been quite interesting because I did my own sort of research of Quaxo as well. And the main thing that I read was that he's either, I think, as you said, he's usually the lead bug. He is sometimes, and sort of makeup plot wise, he's usually somewhat similar to Plato sometimes in his makeup plot. Or I think it's quite possibly Admetus is sometimes his makeup plot. So yeah, it has been hard to sort of actually figure out who he is. But so I kind of wonder as, you know, this is not your first performance doing stuff. You've been a choreographer, you've performed. Is it easier or harder when you have a little, like, I almost, part of me is like, is this maybe a little easier? Because there is no expectation versus everyone has a thought of what Tugger is supposed to be like, or everyone has a thought of what Mostafli is supposed to be like.

And if you don't meet their version that they were kind of going in thinking, it might be a little harder versus if there's not the thought of Quaxo. Like I, I was sitting there going like, yeah, okay, I think I know which one this would look at if a lineup, but I'm not sure. Is it a, you know, a kitten or is it a, you know, a lead dancer or are you doing a lifts or like, so I think you can build the story yourself.

[28:00] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, Quaxo, for anybody that's interested in doing any other original productions, Quaxo has some really, they're really beautiful, solid lines in the show. And which is sort of what made me sort of get sold on Quaxo as well, because he has that Jellicle Cats come out tonight, the Jellicle Cats come one, come all, that introduction before going into Gumby. So, yeah, it's an interesting role and I'm really glad that I've had the opportunity to sort of bring him to life and hopefully my friends and family who have come to watch me so far have noticed and have figured out who Quaxo is. I'm not sure. To be fair, I don't think most of them have any idea who Any Cat is and unless you're, unless you're a fan, it's, it's tough the first time you see it.

What has been the relationship you've kind of built for Grizabella? Because like, there's obviously a major part of, you have to sell yourself on her being the choice on stage. How did you get Quaxo's mind into like the, okay, I'm going to be willing to be, let her be our choice at this point?

[29:26] Sam Larielle-Jones: You know what? I think we've all made quite a collective decision in the community of Cats. So, as Grizabella sings Memory and she has that little breakdown moment and falls to the, falls to her knees, all of the cats really start feeling for her straight away. And this is even before Jemima in our production of Cillabab even gets up and sing, does that, sings in between the, in between her vocals to her. And we all sort of get this sort of feeling of, oh my gosh, this, this is, this person is, or this cat, sorry, is actually somebody that feels emotion. She's not, she's not this, this cat that should be left to her own devices or should be, should be sort of shunned for the rest of her life.

Because we've already done that as a community and it's, it's that, it's that redemption. So, in the end, I mean, I guess, oh, she does make that decision. But the cats as a collective also go, you know what, she is worthy and she does, she does need to, to go, go up to the journey, to the Heaviside Layer. Mm-hmm. Because on day one, you get handed a book and it's talking all about belonging. And you've been, you've been hammered that into your mind for all the weeks of auditioning. All the weeks of auditions and rehearsals and everything that you're like, all right, I get it. It's, it's how we've set the stage here. Okay. Let's do some rapid fire. I gotta ask some, um, some questions about the show. So if you could go on for one night for any cat, whether male, female, vocal range, dance abilities, age, height, doesn't matter, who would you want to go on as?

[31:38] Sam Larielle-Jones: Uh, you know what, uh, I am, uh, I'm going to go for Bombalurina.

[31:49] Mike Abrams: Bombalurina. Yeah. Yeah. Such a fun song.

[31:51] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah. So I, okay. I do love that. Cause I do think it's always fun when it's like, I can't do any of them. So I'm like, who would be really fun to go do? Um, who are your favorite and least favorite characters? Like which cats bug you and which cats do you love?

[32:06] Sam Larielle-Jones: Um, okay. Um, you know what? I, uh, I really love Monkstrap. Um, and, uh, I mean, I guess that's probably because I, uh, I see, I see a little bit of myself in Monk. Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I just, I, I've always loved, um, the character of Monkstrap. Uh, he's so demanding on stage. Um, and, uh, really brings, uh, brings the show to, um, to what it, uh, what it needs to be. Um, what cat do I dislike? And, um, and it's, it's really bad to say, I really don't like Gus.

[32:49] Mike Abrams: Oh no.

[32:50] Sam Larielle-Jones: It's not good for, it's not good for the voting public here. I'm sorry, Gus. I mean, look, it's the, that song is, uh, uh, as beautiful as it can be. It is very boring for us cats on this day. We've got to really try and figure out what to do in the background and go, oh, okay. He's singing about fire for fiddle or the fiend of the fell or whoever that is. Um, you know, you don't like your break from dancing.

[33:11] Mike Abrams: I love the break from dancing, but it's just, it's, yeah, it's, uh, it's quite, quite taxing just to sit there and actually try and be interested in that song. I, so here's what I'll say about this without risk of losing half my voters here. I, when I listened to the album, the cat's album, which I, you know, it's every once in a while, I'm just like, I'm gonna listen to some of this. There are certain songs where I'm like, I am absolutely gonna like hit replay on this a couple of times. And there are some where I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm okay. Just like passing over this. And I feel this with most musicals. There's a bunch where I'm like, yeah, I'm going to, there's, there's one or two I can just happily skip over and guess a song occasionally as times. I'm just like, eh, I'd be okay if I miss this one today.

[34:17] Sam Larielle-Jones: Absolutely. And you know what? That's, um, I think that's kind of part of my reasoning because when I, uh, used to watch, um, the DVD of the 98 production over and over again, and Gus was the one song that the whole show, and I would skip past, um, fast because he was like on his deathbed as a real person doing that. It wasn't until recently that I rewatched it. I didn't skip through it. I was like, Oh God, this song is boring. And I completely forgot about it. Well, it was Sir John Mills and Sir John Mills was very old when they did that. I don't know how they convinced him to be in that movie because he was like almost fully blind. Like that's why they had to like walk them out. I mean, he was very, very old for that particular part.

And I don't think he lived that much longer after the show, um, after the movie. So it's like, he was, he was old to do a stage production of this. Um, yeah, from a story arc though, Gus, Gus gives a good, good argument, but we'll get there. We'll get there. Um, favorite song for the show. It's clearly not Gus.

[35:26] Sam Larielle-Jones: No, it's definitely not Gus. Um, favorite song. You know what? I really love Peak the Polycools.

[35:35] Mike Abrams: Oh, that's not an answer I get very often.

[35:37] Sam Larielle-Jones: It's, it's interesting. It's, um, uh, in our production, Peaks and Polycools is, uh, performed right after Gus the Theatre Cat. Um, and, uh, so it's, uh, the Rumpus Cat is, uh, one of Gus's, um, uh, one of Gus's, uh, characters that he used to play. Um, so us as cats, uh, we've been told this story of, um, of the Rumpus Cat and the Peaks and the Polycools many times over by Gus, um, in his many storytelling moments, um, in the tribe. And, uh, so he's actually given us this storyline as to, uh, what the Rumpus Cat did. And so we're reenacting, um, who the Rumpus Cat is and who the Peaks and the Polycools are on stage. And so it's just so much fun to, I mean, it's an absolutely chaotic number, um, for us.

And that's why I love it because none of us are focusing so much on the actual choreography. Um, yes, there is choreography in it, but, uh, it's not, we're not trying to be perfect in the choreography. We're not trying to have a complete, perfect point or complete, perfect line. Um, it's, it's very, like, we're running around on stage and being absolutely silly and stupid, and that's why I love it.

[37:03] Mike Abrams: Okay. I was going to say, do you, do you love it because of the song or do you love it because Gus has finally done?

[37:07] Sam Larielle-Jones: No, I love it because of the song.

[37:09] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. Just, just.

[37:11] Sam Larielle-Jones: I think I've always loved it as well, to be honest.

[37:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, my fun question, I, I had the most fun when I was in Australia and Sydney at a zoo seeing just like the most extreme exotic animals, things that like, you know, you just don't find in the States, you know, that's a chaotic part of Australia is you have all these very, very wild and dangerous species. So I want to ask you.

[37:37] Mike Abrams: What cat do you think would be the best, like Steve Irwin type of running a zoo, being like with other animals, like if we take off the fact that they're a cat, but like if they were just in that kind of persona, who's the best Steve Irwin, who's running the best zoo in Australia?

[37:53] Sam Larielle-Jones: Oh my gosh, that's an interesting question. I've never thought of something like that. Who would be the best person to run that zoo? I'm gonna, as klepto as he is, I'm gonna say Mungo Jerry.

[38:16] Mike Abrams: Mungo Jerry, okay, I can see that. That'd be fun. It'd be a little like, you might have a couple animals disappear though, and it's like, oh, where'd they go?

[38:26] Sam Larielle-Jones: I feel like he gives that sort of like, larrikin vibes, Aussie larrikin vibes that we kind of have here in Australia. Like he's sort of laid back and sort of whatever. I feel like he would have that same sort of like Steve Irwin persona as well.

[38:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I think you're right. It is very much the like late. Okay, so I was thinking about it from a different angle, which was who would keep these animals from killing the guests? I think that's Skimbleshanks. Because I think you keep everything in order and you've got kind of that not laid back, but a little bit of the like, uncle Skimble vibes that I think could have some fun there. But I do, I like, I hadn't thought about Mungo Jerry. Would Quaxo be any good at it?

[39:17] Sam Larielle-Jones: Oh no, Quaxo's a scanty cat. He's an absolute scanty cat. He's going to go and be afraid to even hold the food for the baby kangaroos.

[39:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[39:31] Mike Abrams: Okay. All right. Most important question. And I don't think I'm going to get Gus as an answer based on the conversation today, but I've argued at length that I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. I know you are very deep into your production and having to sell the idea of her being there, but I want you to put that aside and go back to either the 1998 version movie or before you'd really been into this production. Who are you picking if you're all dude around me and why?

[40:03] Sam Larielle-Jones: Look, I am going to have to disappoint you and I have to pick Grizabella. She deserves it so much. I mean, those cats are absolute assholes to her. If you've got asshole cats that want to be assholes to this other cat that has lived this whole life and she really deserves that redemption. She needs to go back and sort of have that extra life to sort of go, you know what, I've made these wrong choices in my life and who doesn't want a redemption? Who doesn't want to go, you know what, I did this, this, this and this in my life and maybe this part I'm not a fan of or I probably could have done that better. I would love that second life. I mean, so yeah, I think she absolutely deserves it.

[41:15] Mike Abrams: All right. So here are my couple follow-up questions. So I get the redemption arc, I get the belonging, connection, community. I get all of it. You know, it's, it's been around for 40 plus years for a reason. If there is a redemption story, why does it involve the next life? Like, why can't she be redeemed and spend time with her family for the year? Like, is she not going to make it? Like, what's the selling point there? Cause like, I love the idea of coming back, but then it's like, okay, great. Great to see you. We've now accepted you. You belong. We've exiled you. You're back. And it's like, and cool. We're going to kill you. Start your next life.

[41:50] Sam Larielle-Jones: I don't think she's got a family anymore. So this, this group, as much as the tribe are a one big family or like, I guess, in a way a chosen family, I don't think she has a physical family left.

[42:06] Mike Abrams: Okay. So I can, that's the best answer I've had to that question. I'll take that. Okay. Here's my other question is we only get one ball. What's old Deuteronomy's criteria each year? Does it change each year? Is there another exiled cat coming back next year? Like what does this look like?

[42:24] Sam Larielle-Jones: It has to change each year. Um, yeah, it absolutely has to change each year. And I think, you know what? Gus is the next choice for sure. Was Gus potentially the choice before she came back? Like was, or did he know she was coming back from the beginning of the night?

[42:45] Sam Larielle-Jones: Oh, he absolutely knew that she was coming back.

[42:47] Mike Abrams: Okay. Yeah.

[42:48] Mike Abrams: Okay. So I have this theory that, uh, he actually invited her back and he was bringing her back.

[42:53] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah.

[42:54] Mike Abrams: And he actually invited her back to the tribe and he, uh, he wanted to gauge what the other cats thought of her.

[43:06] Sam Larielle-Jones: And, and clearly, but does it matter if they get it's like, cause I guess she kind of gets shunned in the beginning. So they didn't react well. And then it's finally in that until memory that they're like, Oh, all right, we'll, we'll do this. And at that point is there, what would have happened if they didn't turn for memory? Like, and they don't accept her. Does he just send her back out for the year and send Gus up?

[43:26] Sam Larielle-Jones: I reckon he's probably still would have chosen it. He's like, you better learn this lesson or I'm going to do it anyways.

[43:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[43:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. Um, did your cast talk about this question at all?

[43:40] Sam Larielle-Jones: No, no. Okay. No, this, it was, we're going in and just accepting that she's the choice.

[43:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. Nobody's pushing back.

[43:51] Sam Larielle-Jones: No, I got more work to do. I I've got more. I, my goal is to get this question asked at least. I don't, I'm not expecting it to change, but I want, you know, I want a healthy conversation during rehearsals.

[44:05] Mike Abrams: Um, any other, you know, in, in week one, my last question before we, we, we sign off here in week one, how any other funny, weird, chaotic moments, like anything go completely wrong? Like what's, what's this first week been like, like, has there been anything that you're going to be like, Oh my God, I'm never going to forget this?

[44:18] Sam Larielle-Jones: Um, you know what, so, uh, we opened last weekend, uh, with a preview matinee performance on Sunday. Um, and then I had a Saturday night opening with fantastic audience, uh, and then went straight in on Sunday with, uh, matinee and, uh, after was late afternoon performance and our late afternoon performance.

[44:49] Sam Larielle-Jones: Um, look, we were all tired. Um, uh, and, uh, I think we were tired. The crew were tired cause we'd just come from, uh, doing Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday night rehearsals for 10 had Friday night off was our only night off. And then we sort of went straight into the show.

[45:12] Sam Larielle-Jones: Um, so that Sunday final performance last week, um, there were some issues. Um, the, I, as I, uh, went to start, um, my solo, uh, uh, in act one, um, I could not hear my voice, uh, in the auditorium. And it was like, okay, I've got to sing out now. My microphone's gone somehow. As I walked backstage, um, they were trying to find my microphone and it turned out the broom of my mic had actually disconnected, uh, from it, from it and had fallen into my costume.

[45:55] Sam Larielle-Jones: Um, and so that was, uh, that was one, uh, one thing, uh, we had, uh, another person's microphone completely sweat out. So they had to get a handheld mic. Um, and then, uh, our, uh, our pyrotechnics failed, didn't go off. Um, and, uh, Chris Abella did not fly into the heavy side layer and instead stood there, um, and then sort of turned around and crawled out through the back of the stage.

[46:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I have heard, I've heard that happens more often, I think, than, than people realize is that the, the, the Grisabella send, like, ascending to the heavy side layer is like, Oh, or she just walks off stage. Um, I it's, I think it's funny, but he knew what to do. It was quite hilarious.

[46:44] Mike Abrams: I think that's, to me, that's some of my most memorable theater moments is when it's like, there is the, Oh, that's, this is not what's supposed to happen, but how do they handle it? And, you know, like, that's what makes live theater. Like, I think it's, it's fun when it's like real. Um, so that's so fun to hear.

[47:04] Sam Larielle-Jones: Um, how can people stay in touch with you on social media and see whatever shows you're going to do next and other things going on, or maybe what you're going to do choreography for?

[47:09] Sam Larielle-Jones: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, uh, my, uh, Instagram, uh, you can find me at, uh, dancersam_91, uh, on Instagram. Uh, that's where I post anything that I do show wise. Also you can find, uh, by me on, uh, Facebook as well, uh, dancer Sam, uh, or Sam Larielle-Jones, choreographer, um, as well. Um, so yeah, I, I do, whenever I'm in a show, I'll mainly post onto my Instagram page and stories, um, a lot. Um, uh, I, well, I try to, um, I'm just, I'm really not great at the social media sort of stuff. And, uh, they're trying to encourage us to do like reels and tick tocks and everything. And, uh, last night I filmed a, um, uh, time-lapse of my makeup. So I'm going to get to editing this one before I head off to, uh, to our matinee show today.

[48:10] Mike Abrams: Love it.

[48:11] Mike Abrams: Yeah. If you, I will tell you there's a lot of, it's hard because it's like, you know, it's exhausting, but the pre as just dressed up as a human transition videos to dress up as a cat with dances and stuff do very well because it is a stark difference. So this is my, uh, my, while you're going to be doing that, you're already going to be getting into costume. You've remembered to film a couple of them and you can roll them out there later. Same as drafts. It's hilarious watching them.

[48:34] Sam Larielle-Jones: Uh, this, uh, one of the guys and now in my dressing room, he, uh, he absolutely loves doing reels. So he's doing all like the transition videos. And it's so funny watching him. Like he's sitting there in front of his, uh, in front of his camera on his phone and he's like pushing his hand up to the camera and doing it like multiple times. And I was looking at him the first time he was doing, I was like, what is he doing? It looks so silly while you're doing it. But then the final product usually looks amazing. So you just, the behind the scenes stuff is, is not of, of the content creation is, is not, it's behind the scenes for a reason.

[49:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been, uh, so fun. It's been great to hear about your production, uh, and hear about your experience too. And I hope you get another joke of life and then a future production as well. And you get to maybe be Munkustrap or I don't want you to be Gus. Cause I think you're going to fall asleep on stage if you ever have to do it, but, but I hope there's more cats in your future. Thank you very much.

[49:44] Sam Larielle-Jones: Um, this has been awesome. So thank you.

[49:47] Mike Abrams: And thanks for everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast, break down the Cats, Cats fee to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast, plus on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and threads or check our website.