This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams. And today we have another amazing guest. You got to hear a little bit of her experience when I went to Washington DC to film my hundredth episode almost exactly a year ago with the Cats Tour. But I'm excited to dig even deeper because I have been promised some amazing stories. She was Jennyanydots on the US National Tour 6 of Cats. So welcome, Michelle E. Carter, and thank you for joining me.

[0:41] Michelle E. Carter: Hello, I'm so excited to be here. I can't even tell you how long I've waited for this. I am. Your cast was so much fun when you hosted Alan and I in DC. And it was so cool to have you there.

[0:54] Michelle E. Carter: It was so fun. And it was just like scratching the surface because it was like, you know, we talked to a lot of people we filmed, it was an all day thing. Actually, it's really a two day thing. And then I'm like, there's so many more stories here. So I'm happy to have the energy in the building that day when you were there. And we kind of got to, you know, redo our stories a bit was just really awesome. So I'm really excited for this.

[1:16] Mike Abrams: I love it. I love to hear that too. Because that's my whole thing has been to kind of poke fun of the show, but at the same time, uplift the show, and be, you know, a voice into some of the story. And so to hear that you all enjoyed it and got to have fun with it was great. Okay, let's start at the beginning now. What was your introduction to Cats?

[1:35] Michelle E. Carter: Oh, boy. So I always said, you know, whenever I've had to do interviews and press and stuff that I'm sort of like the Cats imposter out of the cast. I didn't grow up with it. You know, I grew up with a lot of, you know, like old movie musicals, like Gene Kelly. That's the reason I got into tap dance, but Cats was never one of them. My only intro to Cats was, you know, like in college, I stood there in my audition prep class, and our classmates had to make a list of 10 roles you think your classmates should play. And Jenny Any Dots was the one that everyone kept saying. It was like, what the fuck? Who? What? And, you know, like, I didn't really think particularly anything of it. And then, you know, my senior year of college is, you know, I went to Marymount Manhattan College in New York City.

So I've been living in New York City since 2010. Oh, boy, aging myself there. 2010. So I was just graduating college in 2014 when the Cats revival was hitting the stage. And that's when I was like, Oh, yeah, that's right. That thing that exists. And I actually never got to see the revival. I was really lucky to work straight out of college a lot. So I wasn't really in town much to be able to see it. But we all know that infamous movie came out.

[2:55] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah. And I was doing a production of A Chorus Line at Signature Theatre in DC at the time. And the whole cast made like a whole big thing of it. And we all finished our night show, like on a Sunday night, did shots in the green room, and then walked two doors down to the AMC to go see Cats the musical on the big screen. And that was my first introduction to Cats.

[3:26] Mike Abrams: So you'd never seen any version until the 2019 movie?

[3:31] Michelle E. Carter: No.

[3:31] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[3:32] Michelle E. Carter: No.

[3:33] Michelle E. Carter: So my first Jenny Any Dots was Rebel Wilson.

[3:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[3:36] Michelle E. Carter: How cheesy am I?

[3:38] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[3:39] Michelle E. Carter: Okay, I'm just gonna say it so the world knows. I was not brought in to audition for one of the tap dancing cockroaches for that movie. And I'm pissed.

[3:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[3:48] Michelle E. Carter: So.

[3:48] Mike Abrams: I mean, you would have been ready.

[3:51] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah. I mean, like, agent, I'm right here, like, Jesus.

[3:56] Mike Abrams: So how? Okay, that is fascinating that your experience was that movie. And then you wild, you get the part, you know, like, obviously, you audition. Yeah. Were you surprised at how different it was? And the stage? Yeah, okay.

[4:11] Michelle E. Carter: So I when I'm auditioning for something, I, I'll listen to the music. But I'm a person who when I when I audition for something, and especially when I'm getting close to the point where I could actually get something, I'm a person who gets very attached to the material. And so then when I don't get it, I get very heartbroken. So therefore, I've learned that I really shouldn't watch videos of it. Because it just sort of adds to the heartbreak of what could have. Yeah, which sounds so dramatic, but it's just, you know, it helps me be able to mentally emotionally be able to navigate this life, I guess. And cats, I remember being like, Steve, my fiance, my fiance, I was like, Stephen, I think I have to watch it.

Because like, that 2019 I you know, that wasn't it. That wasn't anything like what I'm going in for. And I feel like I just I've really got to watch it. And I sat there the night before my final callback with my fiance's cat on my lap. I have a picture watching the original cats.

[5:18] Michelle E. Carter: Okay, the 1998 movie.

[5:20] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[5:20] Michelle E. Carter: And I watched the 98 film. And I was like, I really want that.

[5:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[5:28] Michelle E. Carter: And then I also, you know, because I don't I don't half ass anything. Apparently, I found the bootleg of the 2016 revival. And I also watched that. Just because I knew, you know, I'd been told how different they were. And they were and I am at the end of the day really happy that I watched it. I think if I didn't get it, it would have been one of one of the bigger devastations of my career. Because I was really I mean, especially the quality and level of tap in that 2016 revival is like, there's not much out there like that that exists for people like me, for women like me specifically, because I mean, most of the fun tap the men get in theater, which is bullshit, but I'm sure we'll get into that.

But you know, there just aren't many female tap roles where you're tapping alone on a stage doing that quality of rhythm tap in theater that just doesn't exist. And to be able to be in consideration for that was already a dream. And then to be able to get it was, you know, I'll probably never do anything like that again in my life unless someone rehires me to do cats. Yeah. It's been 40 plus years, he might get another another round of cats somewhere. Cats US tour 12. So yeah, exactly. So I'll be of the correct age that time.

[6:49] Mike Abrams: Well, that is so there's a lot to the the tour is interesting, because there's definitely, you know, for the most part, a younger cast. And yeah, you have an older set of cats that you have to portray. And that happened in the revival, too. And that's I'm sure it's happened over the years. It's just it's part of theater. But I want to I want to dive into you did both years, right? Of the Yes, I'm one of the I'm one of the few stragglers who stuck around for both years, did both years. So I want to hear. Let's start with some of the theories that you had, because we talked a little bit about this in the in the hundredth episode. But I know that you, you know, as someone who went in with no knowledge, and now have deep knowledge, what are some of the things that like, backstories and stuff like we talked a little bit about your Jenny Mungo and Rump kind of trio, some other stuff.

And then I know I gave you some farfetched things to try on stage while we were in DC. But that's right. But what are some of the other things that like jump out that either surprised you or as you learn the show, you're like, wow, this is the backstory of Jenny that I didn't realize. I think mostly in terms of my relationships with others. I was most shocked at the way how it changed between years one and two. And how much I learned for the fact of it really was dependent on who was in the catsuit. Yeah, because the relationships on stage because it was so Chrissy really gave us a lot of freedom to pick and choose. She gave us like the bare bones character wise. And then after that, it was up to you.

It was up to the person to build the rest of what was there. And so I mean, there were relationships that I had with certain cats year one that, you know, I was BFFs with this person and now they're not in the catsuit. And I have this new human being and I'm like, no, yeah, you're supposed to be Aiden Pressel, you know, and I had to I had to learn sort of how to navigate new people in the catsuit and form relationships, a completely different relationship with the same exact character. For a lot of us people who came back from year one, it challenged a lot of us to find other parts of our characters and delve deeper into it. And, you know, because we reacted one way for 12 months and then all of a sudden you have new people doing new things and you're like, that's not in my track. Shit, I have to act. And, you know, I'm you know, you'll find that, you know, with people who have been with the show for a long time where you're like, oh, my God, something's different.

[9:34] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I've always I've always asked that question for swings because it's a very interesting of like you're on for one show or two shows or just kind of quick in and out and doing different parts. But from year one to year two, you had a huge turnover, almost completely new cast. And, you know, to your point, you're doing it for 12 months. You're doing it eight to nine whatever shows a week. The only ones from year one, I think and I'm sure someone's going to text me when this comes out and be like, you forgot about me. But was Taylor Harris, The Grisabella, Dominic Fortunato, The Pounceable and then for onstage cats. And then Brian Craig Nelson was the swing and played Muggle Jerry a lot in year one. And then he took on the role full time. Those are the only people. Yeah. Three, three full time people. And then yeah. And then John Boe, of course, I just, you know, he wasn't in a lot of the dance numbers. But that was really like it.

[10:32] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah. And that's I mean, that's got to be with a show that's so dependent on relationships and interactions and your relationship as a whole. Yeah, it's got to be a little jarring in that first kind of almost a week or so kind of going, especially having done it one way or one ish way for so long. And it's interesting you say that because actually the way the rehearsal process was set up for that second year, the year two cast, because, you know, year one cast, we knew all the material we had worked with Chrissy. So they actually ended up ended up bringing us in a week later. So on top of like being like, who are these new people? We're also navigating the fact that all of these people have been in the rehearsal room already for a full week and they've already made relationships with each other.

Yeah. You know, so you it's funny because the year ones we came in and we were the ones who felt almost like we didn't belong. And we were the imposters, to be quite honest, because we were like, I felt personally like I was stepping into their space because they had created this world around them. And now who was I coming in? Jenny Annie Dots, you're one being like, oh, well, I usually do it this way. They've been rehearsing for a week. Yeah. You know, and it was hard at first feeling like I was the one plugging in. Yeah. And being forced to dance around these new relationships and characters around me that were kind of already in development. And I mean, there was definitely some like.

[12:14] Michelle E. Carter: You know, I'm trying to find the right word for the motion that I just did. You got a little bit of the Grizabella experience of like shunned out.

[12:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah, we really we not shunned, per se, because, you know, again, everyone was very nice, very cordial at first, but it very much felt like being an outsider at first for all of the oldies, because we felt like we were sort of disrupting their development of these new characters in this new piece for them. And it was very sort of much sort of like a us and them thing at first when we first started the rehearsal process when the oldies came. Just simply because there was this large divide of people who had already been in the room for over a week and us who had come in and knew the material already. And I think. For me, it really worked because, you know, I was one of the older ones and I think people well, older ones in terms of the cast, I swear, I'm not old, I'm only old in the world of cats.

Yeah. And that's what I said to people. I would always I mean, year two, my nickname was Meemaw because I was like the mom of the Meemaw and Peepaw, Alice and Dwight. Everyone called us Meemaw and Peepaw because we were like the older gals in the cast. And, you know, so people felt, you know, as an older cat and someone who portrayed an older cat, they felt more freer to ask me questions and, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. But I'm only old in the world of cats. Yeah. I'm not kicking the bucket anytime soon. It's it's definitely it's like I always relate it to like the professional sporting careers where it's like, oh, my God, they're past their prime at 30, you know, and oh, my God, like half the Ravens.

I were really I'm from Maryland. I'm a really big Ravens fan, my fiance and I. And it's so funny because you see these like seven foot guys and you're like, oh, they're like 30 or 40. They have to be. And then they're like, this 25 year old just graduated from the University of Utah. And we're like, what the hell? Yeah, it is. That is there's a lot of parallels to that. I want to go back to some of the relationships that maybe changed. I know you mentioned Alonzo or some of the other ones because you had a pretty deep backstory in year two with Mungo Jerry and Rumpelteazer. Yeah. Is that similar in year one or like not at all? No, very different. Not at all. Brian Craig Nelson is like one of my dearest.

[14:52] Michelle E. Carter: Jenny as an annoyance, which totally tracks, you know, a totally valid character choice. And then it was funny because then whenever Brian was on in the Mungo role year one, it completely changed of the Oh, I loved I love Jenny and he was just and Mungo was just sort of like the happy go lucky here to here to mess things up kind of guy when Brian was on. And so that's, you know, another relationship that really changed into year two. I'd already had experience with it because, you know, Brian was on a lot in year one. So, you know, I already sort of knew how to navigate that. Or has another one that changed? And it's funny because some of the cats who came in for year two were like straight up doppelgangers of their year one counterpart.

Oh, my God. Reagan Davidson, when I walked in for year one, she was like the talk of the town on the first day because everyone was like, that's Alexi Waits. We think they look similar. She had her hair down. They look identical. And I was like, oh, cool. They re-signed Alexia. No. OK. All right. Not her. Not her. Yeah. And then who was it? Brendan Moran is like Sean McManus. Yeah, he really they same body type, same height, similar personalities. And then I think a big one was Aiden Pressel and Sam Buchanan. I mean, and they went to college together. So they've they also know each other well and had danced together for a really long time. And the way they move is really similar. So like we would see them dance and we're like, that's Aiden Pressel.

That is so it was. Yeah. So it was funny because and those people, it's it was funny how similar they were to their year one counterparts and how similarly they played the part. So you had some of those where it's like, oh, OK, this person's playing it, you know, sort of the same. And then, you know, you had others, you know, like Alonzo is the greatest example, I think Monkey Shops, another really good example, because Kate Wright brought you know, he was so different than all of his other counterparts that you kind of had to find new relationships there. It's it's a cool part of the show, too, because like you would as an audience member, you're not going to notice those differences like in a good way.

Like it's a yeah, the they're going to still deliver the dance numbers and deliver like overarching theme of the piece. But it gives you as performers some almost variability that allows it to not get stale.

[18:21] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah. Keep the, you know, the energy. And that's a first for such a physical show that you have to do so many times a week over and over and over again that having that I'm sure is helpful.

[18:33] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah. It's like some people might see it as like, oh, this is it's too loose of a plot, but it's like, no, it's great. And it's funny because people I think once you do a show five hundred times, people are like, oh, my God, you did that five hundred times. It's like it's so funny because I think for a lot of us who came back who are in the dance numbers, it felt like I did one version two hundred fifty times and the other version two hundred fifty times because that is truly how much it felt like it changed for me. Like my number didn't feel like it changed much. Obviously, the Gumby Cat, all the rest of the show, it felt like I did a different show.

[19:04] Mike Abrams: Which I'm sure it has to help, right? Like that's got to be.

[19:10] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah. Oh yeah. No one wants to do the same thing five hundred times. You can ask people on Broadway, people in tours. Yeah. No one. No one wants to do that. That's a drag.

[19:19] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So I want to ask one more question before we get to some tour stories. Oh, as someone who didn't who didn't know the show pre 2019 and that first rehearsal or the first time you heard the whole story, what was the most like shocking piece? Like what's the part we were like, I did not realize cats was about this.

[19:32] Michelle E. Carter: The orgy. Yeah. Because let me tell you, I didn't get that from the fucking twenty nineteen film. The ballroom scene. Yeah. OK. Certainly didn't get that. And I was like, what? Skimbleshanks grabs her where? That was that was the biggest thing. And that was explicitly told.

[20:03] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah.

[20:04] Michelle E. Carter: Chrissy was Chrissy Cartwright is the funniest. Oh my God. She just it's so funny because she comes in and she presents as this very posh, very put together British woman. I kept saying she reminded me of like a Julie Andrews the whole time. She was like this little this little British nanny, this little British grandmother, something of the sort. And then this very posh, very put together woman is like. Yes, you know, all the movement comes from your rosy pink arsehole and you're like, whoa. Oh, dude, where'd that come from? And, you know, just how sexual inherently the story is. I mean, you know, cats. As beings are very slinky, very sexual animals to begin with in just the way their movement quality and the way they move. And that is just something that I simply did not get from that 2019 film. I'll tell you that.

[21:01] Mike Abrams: That is. So imagine what I thought.

[21:08] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a shot a shot in after a show. Going straight to the chorus line after chorus line, chorus line of all shows where you're already like your body feels coked out.

[21:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[21:24] Michelle E. Carter: So we're going to take a quick break and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. OK, let's let's pivot to some tour story. I know you've got a couple that you've geared up and ready, waiting to tell.

[21:35] Michelle E. Carter: So I feel like so many stories couldn't be told. And, you know, I've I'm actually I'm an avid listener of wrong cat died. I especially when I was. Yeah. Especially when I was getting into cats because I felt like I was so behind on who these people were and what the stories were. I found the podcast by mistake before you started interviewing anyone I knew. And I listened to a lot of like every single Jenny episode you have. I listened to every single one of them when I was on tour. You know, it was fun to listen. It was like my shower podcast because I would throw it on when I was in the shower. And that was sort of how I learned a lot about the characters as well as the different iterations of versions that the show has been through.

And, you know, I would always talk to my friends who had been on the podcast after they went on the podcast. And I the common denominator was, oh, yeah, I didn’t know if I should say that because the tour was currently still going on. You know, and you don’t want to give any bad press to anyone. And no, I’m not that’s not what the show’s about. I’m not trying to get in trouble or the show.

[22:44] Mike Abrams: Exactly. No one’s trying to get in trouble. No one wants to detract from the show, especially not while it’s still on the road.

[22:48] Michelle E. Carter: But I do feel like now I have some stories that can finally reach the public’s ears in a way that they probably couldn’t before. One of those being I mean, a lot of illustrious sort of poked at it. Yeah, in her episode, and then, you know, didn’t go too far into it because she came off the podcast and was and I texted her and she was like, Oh, yeah, I didn’t want to poke a sleeping bear on that one with everyone’s still out. You know, but you know, cats in concert from year one, show 71. We it’s funny, we always um, I always remembered the show numbers by to remember which one happened and like that was one of the iconic show numbers probably the most infamous show number was year one show 71. We were Davenport.

[23:48] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah, somewhere in Iowa. That’s and Davenport, Iowa. I have a very good memory for things that don’t really matter. So Davenport, Iowa, I’m pretty sure of it. We are on the bus. And we are driving to our next location. It was a split week. It was our first split week of year one. Yeah, show 71. So we we weren’t that far into the tour at this point. You know, we only did 250 220 something like that performances to too far. And it was our not our No, not our first split week. But one of our first. Yeah, split weeks. That was our first like brutal split week where we had more than like two cities in a week. Wow.

[24:25] Michelle E. Carter: Um, and that one was a one nighter. And I, a lot of us who are out on the road, because we were touring in the time of COVID. Everyone who was out on the road at the time was very sort of bonded together. So I had a lot of friends on in the Fiddler on the Roof tour cast. And, you know, we all talked about like COVID. How’s your tour doing blah, blah, blah. And I had talked to my friend on Fiddler on the Roof, who had told me that when they played this theater, they had an issue getting their set in. They couldn’t get their set in. And they ended up doing a reading a concert version of Fiddler on the Roof, which works, you know, it’s it’s the story is so closely intertwined with the music that people will reasonably want to pay to see actors sit in chairs and read lines from Fiddler on the Roof, you know, that is so totally doable. You know, I’m sure it wasn’t a fabulous experience for the cast, but you know, they get a night off and they just sit there and sing.

[25:25] Michelle E. Carter: So I know we’re driving to Davenport, Iowa, this has happened only like, I believe it was like three weeks ago, two or three weeks ago that this happened to my friend’s cast. So I know that this building is like, and we’re driving there, we stop at the rest stop, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, a couple people get back on the bus and get yelled at because they were late to getting back on the bus, whatever, by our company manager. And then Grace Buckley gets up to talk because she is our, she was our associate who, well no, Kim was the associate, Grace was the, you know, head of team dance, and she traveled with us on year one. Year two, she did not travel with us. Year one, she got up to speak on the bus with the microphone in the front and we were sort of like.

That’s rare. Why is Grace Buckley speaking on the bus? You know, it would usually, it would be a company manager on the mic on the bus. And that’s when Grace Buckley tells us, hey guys, there was a problem at Loden. The freight elevator broke. There is zero way to get the tire or any of the wooden pieces of the set because we had the inflatable. So any platforms, things that were stood on, but mostly the tire, it’s impossible to get them up to the stage. We are not going to do this show without those because that’s sort of dumb. And, you know, there gets to a point where it’s like, what can you take away from Cats the Musical and still have it be Cats the Musical? You take the tire away, I’m sorry, you’re not doing Cats the Musical. You’re not doing a real version of Cats the Musical if you don’t have the tire. That’s just life.

[27:17] Michelle E. Carter: And she said, so we’re still hashing out details, but we are going to do a concert version of Cats the Musical tonight because so many people are coming and so many tickets have been sold for this city because it is a one nighter that we’ve been put in a situation where we kind of can’t cancel. And we’re all at this point going, what the fuck? And everyone’s just sort of laughing because this sounds obscene. It was obscene. We’ll get into that later. You know, we find out then that we are all going to be in costume. We’re all going to be in cat costume. Weren’t expecting that. We were kind of just hoping we’d be in normal clothes because that’s really awkward. That we’d be sitting in chairs.

That’s weird to be in a full cat suit just sitting in a chair like that. That feels weird. And that we would do the show, but we were not allowed to do any blocking or choreography because that’s the intellectual property of Andy. That’s the intellectual property of Trevor Nunn. And if the show is not being presented in its full original version, it’s not fair to present their work in a poor light. So those are the things we are told at first. And we know nothing more than that because details are still being hashed out. We all sit on the bus with the sense of impending doom because we don’t know what is happening.

[29:00] Michelle E. Carter: We get dropped off at this really dingy holiday and we have like 30 minutes to get our shit together before heading to the theater early because we know there’s going to be a rehearsal to figure out what’s happening. We enter through the stage door and our stage manager is standing at the call board, also a thing that never happens. And as we’re standing there, we were also told the Swings would be on stage with us, which was exciting. In Cats, there I don’t think has ever been really a version where the full cast has been in at the same time every single Swing has been in. Because typically if a Swing is going in, it’s because someone in the onstage cast can’t do it. So we had all of us in that night and we were at the call board and our stage manager is divvying up to us, you’re going to wear this costume. So there were three Grizabellas on stage that night.

[29:44] Michelle E. Carter: I was in, you know, the raggedy coat. And then Kellyanne DeCarlo was dressed as Baby Grizz. Carolyn Bacon, also dressed as Baby Grizz. Tell me how much sense that makes. Not a lot. I get up there. I'm told I'm going to be dressed in the Jenny fringe. And Megan Arsenault is going to be dressed in the Jenny normal cat unitard costume. We also, you know, so we're getting everything. There are multiples of cats on the stage, you know. And we get up to the stage. There are no chairs. Every single chair we've been told that we're going to sit in, gone. And we look around and we're like, Grace, what's happening? And she goes, yeah, change of plans. You're now going to crawl around the stage. Crawl around?

Yeah, you heard me. She was like, yeah, you're now going to crawl around the stage. And we said, what? And, you know, like there are older cats who can't crawl. So then they did end up bringing out, like, there was a chair for old dude. So you can't crawl in that. Chair for old dude, chair for, guess the theater cat, chair for Grizabella because the coat's expensive. And then they had a couple other chairs. So it didn't just look like three people in chairs. That Jelly got to sit on. I got to sit on. Because also, mind you, the Jenny Fringe, they had me in tap shoes. But you're not allowed to tap. Oh, no, not allowed to tap on the stage, though, because they told me that like you can't even like improv tap to this number.

The stage is not for the stage they have down is the Marley is not for tapping. So you can't tap at all. You can just strut around in these shoes. You can't do any tap whatsoever. I was like, OK, let thanks a lot. And so we sort of have this very brief rehearsal where we're told we're all going to be on stage the entire time. And we're going to essentially do kiddie viewpoints the whole time where we just crawl around the stage, improv act with each other under the circumstances of each song. And the band will play fast and it will hopefully be over soon. And so we're all feeling super confident, as I'm sure you can imagine. And the thing was people didn't cancel. We really thought we were going to be playing this to an empty audience because people were going to hear like, oh, cat's the musical and they're not dancing.

No, we're not coming to that. It was billed. And this theater, I want to know who runs this damn marketing department at this theater, because the way it was billed was this one in a lifetime experience to see cats in this new light as you had never seen it before and never will see it ever again. And they made, you know, they made it really special for this town of Davenport, Iowa, to make it feel like you had to be there because something really special is happening in our small town and you just got to see it. And so we crawl out. At Showtime, feeling not super confident, this house is fucking packed to the brim. It looks like nobody canceled their tickets. And we're like, we totally thought we were going to be playing to six people.

No, this house is full. And it's like a small house. It was like a pretty medium sized house. So like we're talking about 400 people are there. Three hundred, four hundred people. You know, not the biggest crowd we've ever played to, but still, you know, you're on stage doing something you're not very confident in for 300 people. And we start this. And, you know, everyone is improving their songs and some songs work super well for, you know, to be just standalone songs where you don't act where you can't do the original cats blocking Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer being one of them. It was so cool and fun to watch them navigate their song and make new choices that they couldn't make when they were cats because it wouldn't make sense.

You know, it works fairly well as a standalone Bustopher Jones. Tony was actually on that night. He was the only swing in for his other track. And, you know, it was really fun watching him. And then you get to numbers like mine. And keep in mind, I'm up first. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. You're the really early. You're the first solo number up. You're not allowed. You're in these beautiful tap shoes. You're not allowed to tap dance. And I am obviously like the curtain rises and I'm sitting in that chair and it's like all everyone's eyes go to me. And so it gets time to my number. You know, it's fine when I'm singing and then the dance break starts. And I because, you know, I can't tap. You can't do the number.

Yeah, I look back on it and I'm like, I should have just done it. But, you know, I'm for I'm first up. I don't want to I'm not going to break the rules yet. And so I must have said hi and acknowledged every cat on that stage two times to fill that dance break. And it's so funny because people still talk about the way I was like, hello, Mongo, Jerry, Pounceable. Good to see you. Oh, Grizabella, I don't like you very much. You know, like because I really had to milk the living shit out of that dance break for what it was worth. And I was literally just tipping and doing struts across the stage, doing a little pose and then saying hi to a cat. It was really something else. And then, you know, is there any bootleg in this?

Is anybody on a film? No, they made oh, you can bet they made damn sure there were no video cameras in that crowd that you can bet your ass they they made sure of that. And Jonathan Gorse, God bless his soul, was like. He was just playing the dance break so fast because he knew that we were like, make this be over. And my dance break that usually lasts like a good three, four minutes was a good forty five seconds. And, you know, we finished the song and we did it. Act one ended. Act two, people we were told not to dance. And you know what? People by that point were just like, I'm under these strange conditions and I'm not going to stand there like an idiot. I like Mr. Zumber. I'm not going to not dance.

So Paul just sort of improv dance the whole thing. And it was really fun. Macavity was really fun. But we definitely also had hiccups throughout the night that no one foresaw. Like we have to find all to Rodney. He's sitting there on the stage. Macavity is not there. He's right there. He said kidnapping. There's no there's no kidnapping. And it's so funny because we all still talk about the time where they said Macavity is not there. And Aidan Pressel simply just realized I should not be here and hid behind old Deuteronomy in the chair and like ran off stage. And we all still talk about it. It's very funny. But and we got off stage from that performance. And I called Steve and my fiancee and cried because I felt like a fucking idiot. And I felt like it was like the worst work I ever did on a stage. And then Troika bought us all drinks at the bar that night.

[36:52] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So I as a audience member, part of me, I guess it's always only one night, which makes it a little harder. But part of me is like, oh, that would be I've like, almost would want to see some of these kind of like. I want to talk to an audience member who was in the audience. So if you're listening to this and you were in the audience that night, I want to talk to you and know what the experience was like for you.

[37:12] Michelle E. Carter: Me, too. I don't know how many Davenport, Iowa listeners I have. You know what? You never know. I'm hoping I'm hoping I'll send it to some people I know in Iowa, like five people I know in Iowa, none in Davenport. But I do find those things like I've enjoyed seeing swings on. I've enjoyed seeing like sometimes the nuances of where it's like, oh, that definitely like I saw a dress rehearsal of a show and my friend was working on the set. It made us think about the show. It made us think about the show in a brand new way. And it was funny because like the Macavity fight that night was terrifying because they essentially improv like a dance stage combat. Devin McCluskey and Aiden Pressel and they were like skin to skin contact.

We were like, oh, somebody's going to get fucked up in here. Yeah, it was really severe. And like sweat was flying. Well, you didn't they were improving this. We didn't know if someone was actually going to get hurt. They were all over the stage. It was it was scary. And it was the first time where I was like, oh, maybe I should be bringing this to my actual performance because the stakes are supposed, you know, the stakes are high and they are this high.

[38:30] Mike Abrams: So was the next performance like one of the best or one of the worst or just another average performance? Like it's got to be almost a high to come off of that or a low to come up from like.

[38:42] Michelle E. Carter: It was sort of a high when we left it that night. It was sort of a high because we were like, oh, we really pulled that off. And, you know, like fairly new cast to the show, still developing our characters and figuring it all out. And we really felt like we pulled off something incredible and impossible that should have never happened. Yeah, but we really felt like we did the impossible and that we actually did it really well. So, I mean, the next performance, I'm going to be honest, a blur. I don't remember it. 72, not as memorable as 71.

[39:15] Michelle E. Carter: 72, not nearly as memorable as 71, I'll tell you that. But I mean, like, there were definitely like other other screw ups, you know, from minor ones of like, you know, like I think Sam touched on like, you know, like the scimbalite not coming on. That happened a few times. And then there was show 100 from year two. That's a memorable one. DC, actually, I think it was right before you came. And that's sort of why the energy in the building was like, right before you came. We are soundboard died mid performance. Oh, wow. That was the night because I'm from DC. All of my friends and family are there. Everyone I've ever met there in the audience. My family, my high school theater director, so many people, so many people are there for me.

And we are and we're in the middle of my number. One of my numbers, Bustopher Jones shows going great. I gave the Gumby Cat of a lifetime. It was awesome. We get to Bustopher Jones and I'm like, because, you know, Jenny doesn't get a break. And then goes do do do do do do do do do do do do boom, boom, boom. I start singing. There's nothing coming out of my mouth in the audience. Wow. And they hear nothing. And all of my friends and family are in the audience. So I'm like, you know what? I don't care. I'm going to scream Bustopher Jones into their mouths because everyone I know is here. And so, yeah, I'm going to scream it. Bustopher Jones. And I'm screaming and I'm looking nervously in the monitor.

Jonathan Gorst is on his little phone that's in the pit, which is a horrible sign that if you ever see your conductor on their pit phone, bad sign, your show might be stopping as an actor. And so we're looking on the monitor. Jonathan Gorst is going. Like a big shrug with this thing on the phone, he doesn't know what is happening. I think maybe it's just my mic. No, Jelly Lorm gets to sing, it's hers too. Bum sings, it's hers too. We get to the point where Bustopher Jones is about to sing something. And then, you know, we hear the ladies and gentlemen, we're going to have to stop the show because of technical difficulties. We apologize for the inconvenience. Actors, please exit the stage. We get off stage.

We're like, the fuck? Our board, as it's dying, which we don't know, is randomly turning people's mics on and off. Backstage. Backstage. So what happens when the board goes off? Everyone's going to talk about it. Yeah. We don't know what is happening. We're trying to figure out what's going on. And all the people's mics who were last on are the ones misfiring. So you have my mic misfiring. My mom is in the audience. And I get a text later that night. She was like, you need to stop talking. We can hear you. Allison's mic is misfiring. Erica's mic is misfiring. Random boy mics are misfiring. And Grace Buckley is running around. Poor girl. Kim's in the audience that night, too. Kim Craven came in to do a show check that night and saw all of us.

We were like, great. Oh, God. Our boss lady is here and she's seeing this. Awesome. They get it figured out, supposedly, with the board. It takes a while. The board is down for over 30, for like 30 minutes. And poor Clark is trying to figure it out in the back. I'm sipping water like a beast because I usually don't get water before this show. I usually have to do the tap number into this with no reprieve. So I'm sitting there. I'm having water. I had some tea. It was great. Best Bustopher Jones I've ever done in my life. We go back on. They open the curtain. Audience is clapping wildly. They're so excited for it to start again. It happens again. Wow. Same thing happens. Stage manager over the mic.

Actors, please exit the stage. We're sorry for the technical difficulties. We're off stage for another 20 minutes. By this point, we're at where we should be at intermission. It's the time for intermission. And we're at Bustopher Jones. Bad. And, you know, it takes a little longer. We finally reenter. And that time the board works and I get up to sing Bustopher Jones and that crowd threw ass for Bustopher Jones in a way that ass has never been thrown for Bustopher Jones. That was their favorite number in the show that night, I'm sure. Which is never said. The applause for that number was probably bigger than memory that night. It was wild. And yeah, and the show ended close to midnight.

[43:53] Mike Abrams: Wow. So it's interesting and always fun to hear about these stories because it's live theater. It's what makes it so unique and different. It's different every night. You never know. There's this element of what could happen. And you tell these two crazy stories out of 500. And then you've got some of these very memorable moments. And it's, you know, again, I relate so much to sports. It's like you've got these crazy experiences and game winners and stuff. And then you've got all these other regular season games that just happen. And it's the stuff that's memorable and it's fun. And it's cool to capture these stories on this podcast because nobody else besides your cast and Davenport, Iowa are gonna know about what happened that night and got to experience it. And now we get to hear a little bit of the stories. I love the three Grizabellas.

[44:37] Michelle E. Carter: One more thing I want to talk about before we get to the rapid fire, and it's because I saw your hat when we were in D.C. and the Sweatyanydots. And I want to know, I mean, I know where it comes from, because I can't even fathom doing your dance number. But tell me about the like how that came to life and the hat and everything that went with that.

[45:03] Michelle E. Carter: I am just so warm all the time. I'm a sweaty gal. Everyone who knows me knows this. Every dresser who's ever dressed me knows this, that I am. I hold the rank of sweatiest female cat on CATS the musical for the year that I did it. And it didn't help the fact that I wore three costumes at once. Yeah. Right after doing the opening number. That sort of not the greatest thing I've ever done with my life. Yeah. But a sweatiest all around cat, Brian Craig Nelson, without a doubt, both years that man, I have never met someone who just drips the way he does. I think I've told him nine times. I'm like, you have a gland issue. You need to get this checked out by someone. And the puddles that he and other men left on that stage were just insane.

But I did hold the rank of sweatiest female cat. And, you know, it was really funny because every time I came off stage, I traveled with this little fan. This it was a stroller fan for babies that I would just clip places. And every time I was off stage, you just see me in the fan like, uh, just because. Yeah. And they also had different levels of setting spray for our makeup, dependent on how sweaty you were.

[46:49] Michelle E. Carter: Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Normal sweaty people got final seal by Ben Nye. There was a middle spray at one point when I was on CATS year one that I had tried that I didn't work that orange was slid right off again. And then there was green marble, which I used, Brian used, and I think one other person used. It is hella expensive for one. It is flammable. It took so long to get there because it had to be ground shipped because it was unsafe to fly in an airplane. Yeah. That which I'm putting that on my face. I don't know how that makes me. Yeah. On the every night, every night. And it feels like make it feel, you know, the scent of nail polish remover, the acetone, that is what it smells like and feels like going on your face, coat it on your face.

The burn that it gave to you was just every night at my station, I would spray it and go like, and just start screaming. And everyone knew, like, oh, it's time. It's that time of the night for her in the dressing room because it was so painful. And also, you know, like your skin acted up on CATS. None of us had perfect skin when we were there. We're putting all this crap in our pores. So if you had any sort of zit, any sort of open anything, a cut anywhere, it felt like dying a million deaths. That thing hit your skin, which was every day because, you know, you're a cat with makeup on your face for a living. And it was the worst thing. And it was so funny because every single dresser I had knew like, oh, Misha is about to come off stage.

Better hold the fan for her. Better get her some water because she is wet. And so they all started calling me Sweatyanydots, which I thought was pretty funny. And then my fiancé made me a hat and I got it in D.C. He gave it to me in D.C. and I wore that for the first person that came up with the name. Do you remember? I think I said it as a joke in one of my fittings during year one. And then Jess, who was the original head of wardrobe, who she helped me with all of my changes backstage, she called me it. And then, you know, others started calling me and it just sort of stuck. I love it because I mean, it was so funny because everyone has to look at me at the beginning of Gumby Cat when I come out and I'm sitting in that coat.

And that coat is I don't think people realize the wrongs in the coat, the little circular things on the coat. They're metal. Just they are metal. So we weighed the coat one night and it's a good 40, 35 to 40 pounds. Wow. Carrying around. And it's wool. Yeah. And you just danced, right? Like in a long sleeve unitard. Yeah. And a long sleeve fringe thing, which also that thing was thick as shit. Anyone who's ever worn that can tell you how heavy the damn fringes alone, let alone the coat. So I'm sitting there and everyone is looking at me gazing with adoration. Their eyes were Jennyanydots watching the sweat pour down my face. And that's sort of where that came from. Sweatyanydots. And then the hat. And I love it. What a fun nickname.

[50:06] Michelle E. Carter: All right, let's do some rapid fire. If you could go on for one night for any other cat, male, female, doesn't matter. Who would you want to go perform as?

[50:11] Michelle E. Carter: Bombalurina. Without a doubt.

[50:17] Michelle E. Carter: Who are your favorite and least favorite cats? Ignore the performers. Focus on the characters.

[50:22] Michelle E. Carter: I love Mistoffelees. I love his story. I love what he elicits in the other cats around him. I love Tumblebrutus. I think he's the cutest, sweetest, most darnedest thing. And I love Jellylorum. And that may be in part to the facts that, you know, Alison Duarte from Year Two played it, who's now one of my best friends. I got to go to her wedding recently. And then Kaylee Jameson, who I was also really close with from Year One, played it. But I loved being stuck next to Jellylorum the whole time. That was super sweet.

[51:00] Michelle E. Carter: What about least favorite?

[51:01] Michelle E. Carter: Least favorite? Oh, Bustopher Jones. Who are you?

[51:06] Michelle E. Carter: I'm surprised you... One hit wonder. Get out of here. In D.C., you should have just skipped the number. It's like, hey, we'll make up some time. That's what we were all saying was like, do we really have to die on this hill, guys? Yeah. Can we just go to Griz's entrance?

[51:19] Michelle E. Carter: Love it. Okay, last couple. Favorite song from the show?

[51:24] Michelle E. Carter: Oh, shit, I wasn't prepared for this one. I think Macavity slaps.

[51:33] Michelle E. Carter: That's my answer right now, still. I feel like a bad singing that one. And it's so funny because if you go back and watch any Year Two video, Jelly and Jenny are simply not in the number. We are singing offstage. We are providing most of, you know, a lot of the vocal beef there at the end because they're just winded. Crazy shit they're doing, legs in the air, turning. We are the vocal beef at the end of that number. It is essentially our duet with some backup singers where they're just cranking the shit out of the two of our mics. And then we walk on for the final pose and pose as if we did anything to contribute to the number. And it's so funny because whenever we ran out in rehearsal, a put-in rehearsal, I'd be like, time for my, gotta get ready for this one. And I just do six walks and a pose. You get all the glory.

[52:28] Michelle E. Carter: And I get the applause and I do nothing to contribute to telling the story. I love it. Okay, my fun one. I always ask a fun one. And I think Sweatyanydots to me sounds like a fitness instructor name. So which cat do you think would be the best fitness instructor?

[52:45] Michelle E. Carter: Oh my God. Well, it's actually funny because when we went to go get our wigs on, I was still in my human clothes and I actively only wore sports gear and active wear as a human. So I would always walk back into the dressing room sometimes and be like, okay, everyone, it's time for jazzercise. I think Jenny would be a fabulous jazzercise instructor, but I digress with your question. I think this partly goes because of Paul Girotano and who he was as a human being, he would get the zoomies, as we call it. And he used to be a fitness instructor at 305 Fitness here in the city. But I think Mistoffelees would be a fabulous fitness instructor. Mistoffelees and Bombalurina are my answers.

[53:23] Michelle E. Carter: Well, and it's funny because Erica Chanchulli teaches like yoga for a living too. So it's sort of because of that. Who else? Yeah, I think that's it. I think Mistoffelees is my one.

[53:40] Mike Abrams: Okay. I know we have your vote on record already about the wrong cat dies or not dies, but let's hear it. Are you picking Grizabella? Do you want to elaborate on your vote?

[53:47] Michelle E. Carter: Hell no.

[53:53] Mike Abrams: Who's your vote?

[53:54] Michelle E. Carter: Hell no. You took 14 steps across the stage and 14 steps off, babe. You don't deserve it.

[54:00] Mike Abrams: I love it.

[54:01] Michelle E. Carter: No, track those steps. You took like 14 steps. No, you don't deserve it. You've also been here for what? 20 minutes? Get out of here. I understand why people are team Grizabella because at the end of the day, it's a story about redemption. It's a story about fitting in. You feel bad for her. You feel for her. You want it to be her, right? But this is real life. She doesn't deserve it.

[54:26] Michelle E. Carter: At the end of the day, I have been and will always be team Gus because this man is like, he's not going to make it another year. Look at him. He might keel over and die right then on the paint can. He's not going to make it tomorrow, let alone another year. And also the way all the cats look up to him and seek to him for guidance. No, Griz doesn't elicit that in people. What has she done for the rest of the tribe that makes her worthy of deserving this as well? And that's also my argument when people are like, it should be Victoria. It should be Cillabub. No, they just got here.

[55:07] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah, too soon. Cillabub was just born. I don't think people realize Cillabub's hair looks all slick back and wet because it's amniotic fluid, which is icky to me. But she was just born. No, she deserves nothing. Same thing with Vicky. Vicky, Victoria. No, it's not you either, babe. Not yet. None of the young ones. You haven't had a chance to do anything for the family. You haven't done anything to prove yourself. No, I think I love it when people are like, well, Jenny should go. No, this tribe would be lost without her.

[55:43] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah, she does. And that's something Kim Craven and I actually talked about and something that Chrissy Cartwright and I talked about because she asked me that question in rehearsal. She was like, do you think Jenny deserves to go? Do you think she genuinely thinks that she's going to be chosen? I was like, no. And she was like, right hand some idea. Because at the end of the day, organizationally, and the way that Jenny brings this tribe together and holds it together, they would be lost without her, dude. No one would eat. They live in absolute self. They would not survive without her.

[56:21] Michelle E. Carter: And I think she very much knows that during her number that she is simply just trying to tell the audience how much fun she is and what she does for the tribe. She is not vying for the Jellicle choice. She is first because she's super important to the tribe. But she's not. She knows that it's not her and it can't be her.

[56:41] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I so I agree with that. I think there's I look at this as like a succession plan, a little bit of like, what's the order? And Jenny's clearly not going now.

[56:53] Michelle E. Carter: Jenny's not gone.

[56:53] Mike Abrams: But she's on the sooner side, because I think like your hope would be is that she's grooming, not your mice, but like a Demeter or a Bombalurina or somebody else to kind of take over to where she could be finally in line.

[57:06] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah. And it is very clear that as of right now, there is no one.

[57:10] Mike Abrams: They're not ready yet, for sure.

[57:11] Michelle E. Carter: I mean, look at look at the number. They're all fucking up cleaning.

[57:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[57:15] Michelle E. Carter: How are they going to take over for her? They're only ready in Davenport, Iowa, when there's three of you on the first or two or two of you on stage and then one of you can go.

[57:23] Michelle E. Carter: It is only a possibility when there's a Megan Arsenault and a Michelle E. Carter on stage and one of them can go. Correct.

[57:29] Mike Abrams: Yes, that is. So you have yeah, you got to go back to Iowa to have a chance.

[57:33] Michelle E. Carter: Yes. Yeah, exactly. At the Jellicle choice. I love it.

[57:36] Mike Abrams: Jesus Christ. This has been so fun.

[57:39] Michelle E. Carter: How can people stay in touch with you and all the stuff that you're doing on social media?

[57:43] Michelle E. Carter: I am @idtapthat03 on all socials, which is. People it's so funny how people reference me by my Instagram name in real life, but hey, it's memorable. So @idtapthat03. I also have a website, Michelle-E-Carter.com. The E matters or else I'm a murderer when you Google it. Look it up.

[58:02] Mike Abrams: So old Deuteronomy's in your future is what you're saying.

[58:05] Michelle E. Carter: And Michelle Carter's is old Deuteronomy. Michelle E. Carter.

[58:08] Michelle E. Carter: No, Michelle. Michelle Carter, murderer. Michelle E. Carter, tap dancing, musical theater actor.

[58:13] Mike Abrams: Yes. Love it. This has been so fun.

[58:17] Michelle E. Carter: I've loved hearing all these stories and getting to hear even further. The deep dive. I did not know about your 2019 introduction. That is crazy.

[58:25] Mike Abrams: This has been a bit wild.

[58:27] Michelle E. Carter: Yeah.

[58:28] Mike Abrams: Well, thank you for coming on. It was so...

[58:31] Michelle E. Carter: Thanks for having me.

[58:33] Mike Abrams: And thanks everyone.

[58:34] Mike Abrams: So many things about this. So many things to say about this show. I feel like I could do 40 episodes, but unfortunately it must end.

[58:42] Mike Abrams: This is episode part one. And there's maybe a part two in the future.

[58:47] Michelle E. Carter: When you go on again in the future, if CATS is ever in your, uh,

[58:52] Michelle E. Carter: I hope so. I would do CATS again in a minute. It came to me exactly when I needed it at that point in my life. And I would love to revisit it knowing the things I know now.

[59:02] Mike Abrams: That's awesome. Well, thanks again.

[59:04] Mike Abrams: And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died. The podcast breakdown, the cat's feet to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or listen to podcasts plus on Twitter, Instagram, and threads and TikTok at The Wrong Cat Died or check our website, thewrongcatdied.com.