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[0:13] Speaker 1: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the wrong one died. I'm the wrong one died. Welcome to the

[0:27] Mike Abrams: wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown, the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. This one's gonna be a little different, because she is currently in the rehearsal process to join the Royal Caribbean cruise Oasis of the sea, cast as Grizabella, and she will be on the boat by the time this episode comes out. So welcome your Aden bar and thank you for joining me. Thanks for having me. I am excited because you are mid rehearsal, which means that you're going to get to tell us exactly what you're learning about Grizabella and the story and everything in real time, which is very different than normally I have everyone who's finished their run or has done it years ago. But before we get to that, I want to start with the beginning, which is your cat's history. So when was the first time you saw it? When were you first exposed to the musical or the movie or the VHS?

[1:16] Speaker 2: I was first exposed I think I was in sixth grade, 11 or 12. In my first ever theater class, we had a whole Andrew Lloyd Webber unit where we listened to all of Phantom and analyzed that, and then we watched the cats original tape. I don't know if it was a tape, but that version, and I remember not necessarily understanding the nuance of everything that was going on, but I appreciated it for what it was. Yeah,

[1:51] Mike Abrams: sixth grade is a tough year to watch it, because it's like, you kind of get what's going on, but you don't get what's going on. And it's very, very, very sexual and over the top. And I've kind of always thought like the young, young kids, it's not a big deal, and the adults, it's not a big deal. But there's a confusing period where, if you watch it, it is going to be a moment where it's like, wow, hold on. I kind of get what's going on here, but I don't so you were right in that period of time for your first viewing of a VHS, where you're also probably watching Phantom and the trains and all kinds of other stuff that he put together over his career.

[2:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, but I will say I don't think I got it, and I don't think I understood, at least, I don't remember understanding the sexual innuendos at that time. I don't know if our teacher kind of skimmed over that, maybe a little bit more, but I don't remember it clicking in my head at least.

[2:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I hope your teacher did, because 12 is a that's a tough, tough time to kind of explain what the ball is to a bunch of 12 and 13 year olds or sixth graders. But that is, yeah, that's you get to kind of experience this the VHS and all of his dance and music and part of the theater, which, you know, he's a legend in this industry. So it's got to be a section of class. Yes,

[3:09] Speaker 2: I also did in 2017 I think I did see the revival on Broadway. Okay, so tell me

[3:18] Mike Abrams: about that experience, getting to come to New York and see the a different version of what you watch, because it's two different choreographers.

[3:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, it was an exciting time. Just in general, that whole trip, because I was kind of in the midst of college auditions and, like visiting colleges. So I was there to visit a college campus? And then we saw a couple of shows. I didn't choose cats. I think my mom maybe chose it. I don't really fully remember who picked it. I think it was just a ticket price kind of thing. Or maybe my mom recognized the name and said, Oh yeah, sure, let's do that. I do remember being surprised with the cats in the aisles. That was I you couldn't really see that, at least. I don't remember seeing that in the VHS version, and they were definitely right there. But I just remember it being a whole lot of fun. I did get a photo on the stage. I think I was too shy to get a photo with Old Deuteronomy. But I have a photo in front of the oven, wow,

[4:24] Speaker 3: on during intermission. Yes,

[4:27] Speaker 2: yeah, so I think it was during the Broadway Cares time of the year. And I have a photo with skimble Shanks from after the show.

[4:42] Mike Abrams: So you with the, like, red bucket, so you get there, like, collecting the bucket. So you got to take a photo with skimble shakes. I wonder which skimble Shanks you got to take a picture with? That's probably one I've, I've talked to almost all of them, I think, from that cast. Oh, wow. So you went on stage where you didn't take your your seniors. So and you were intimidated by Old Deuteronomy to take, to take the picture. I was shy,

[5:08] Mike Abrams: wow. Okay, that's super fun. I did not get to go up there, and I didn't know that was a part of it when I first saw it. And I kept thinking, wow, this is so cool. But then I also really felt for the performer, thinking this cat danced a bunch, and now has to sit here, and it was mostly kids that went up, but it was a chance to go and be on stage. But I was not lucky enough to grace the stage at that time.

[5:32] Speaker 2: Maybe next when it comes to Broadway next, next time.

[5:35] Mike Abrams: So I want to fast forward now to you booking the cruise and the show. So walk me through kind of how that all happened, and what your kind of thought was when it was like, Wait a second, I have an opportunity to go do this show that I learned in the sixth grade, that I got to know. I got to see this classic, but also a slightly different version, because you're doing it on cruise, which is a 90 minute condensed version.

[6:02] Speaker 2: I mean, I won't lie, I I've auditioned for, I think almost every single musical that Royal Caribbean puts on. And in my mind, I thought tax was the least likely one I was going to book. Um, because I'm not, not a dancer, like some of my cast mates are dancers, I have never seen anything like it, and I'm, you know, more of a singer, but I'm also young, and I'm 24 right now, but I turned 25 in like, four days, so I don't know.

[6:37] Mike Abrams: So you'd be 25 when this comes out?

[6:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. And so I submitted for Grizabella, just kind of like, I want to work for this company. I don't think this is the role for me, but I was really desperate to cruise that was something I was very, very interested in, and I wanted to just get in front of them as much as possible. And I figure, okay, well, if I'm not, if they think I'm not right for it, then they won't call me in, and that's that. And they did call me in, and they kept calling me in. It was one of the most intense audition processes I've ever been a part of. There just was round after round after round. And I, after one of my first rounds, I was like, Oh, I, I think they, they like me. I am surprised, but happy about it. And yeah, by the end, I really wanted it, and I believed I could do it. And I figured, okay, you know, if they don't want a 40 year old, then that's great. And I, you know, saw videos of it, and I realized, okay, they are casting, you know, some younger people in this role sometimes, um, and yeah, just followed it through. And was real cheerfully happy when I did end up getting it.

[8:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's so cool to hear that, because I do think, as someone who has, you know, this show's been around for 40 plus years, and I've made a lot of my argument against Grizabella because I saw younger grizabellas, I didn't see older grizabellas That kind of had that mindset. And that's, I think, is part of why I've always argued against Grizabella as a Jellicle choice and so, but there's been a lot more of that to be it's more common now to have a younger Grizabella in the show. And so I want to ask, though, as you're going through now you're in the rehearsal process, how much dancing Are you going to be required to do? Because Grizabella, in some cases, does the opening number and some of the other stuff. Like, it's not just a singing role as it used to be, or at least, it's evolved more to not just be come out in your I think they used to be 14 minutes on stage total. It's like, come out, sing your one pretty song, the little memory, do your intermission, come out, do the end, and then go home like it was a pretty, pretty easy track, minus not easy. None of them are easy, but it was a not a lot of time on stage track compared to the cats. Is known for ensemble dancers dancing two and a half hours straight. So how much are they putting you as more of a singer on stage to dance?

[9:20] Speaker 2: I think I've just it's kept the consistent track of I do the baby Grizz, the opening and dance in that I leave after naming of cats to change, to do the quick change into older Grizz. There's like a little dancing movement moment in Grizabella, the glamor cat song, and a little bit of dancing off to the side in the ball where she just wants to be part of it so badly. But yeah, I think it's standard. And I am a strong mover, I would say, or a mediocre dancer, depending. Ending, I straddle that line. I could sing.

[10:02] Mike Abrams: I love it. You're the mover, not a dancer. Is always fun where it's like, you you can't you have to be good enough, like to as a dancer to do that. Like, this isn't that? Like, I couldn't do it. I'm not even a mover. And so there's that like, line of where you still have to have the ability, even though you're more of a singer than a dancer. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. So I want to talk a little bit about now your mid rehearsal, and you're doing again this shortened version, so there's no bus to fur, and I think they cut a couple things out. But what if they told you, like I want to hear a little bit about, what do you remember? Because it's been only a couple weeks of what they've told you about character development and plot like, did they sit you down and said, Here's cats, here's the story, and here's Grizabella, and here's your story, and here's the relationships you need to play. Like, how much of that have you gotten into midway through this rehearsal process?

[10:56] Speaker 2: A lot actually, we started with that our whole, not our whole first day, but a good chunk of our first day was us sitting in a circle, and our director gave us all printed out TS Eliot poems about the ones that pertain to each cat. And for me, it was the Rhapsody on a I don't remember the name of the poem, which is maybe bad, but the one that inspired Roosevelt the glamor cat, or, yeah, because

[11:30] Mike Abrams: it wasn't in the book. It wasn't in the books. It was a separate one. And my favorite fact, combo two, it wasn't in the book because it was too scary for children, was his rationale, which is why I'm always like, this is the one we're gonna center the musical around that children go to,

[11:44] Speaker 2: yeah, yeah. But it's, I guess it's memory. That is, there's like two poems that Grizabella was kind of based off of, and one is a completely separate one that is published by TS Eliot. And if I remember the name, it was Rhapsody on a something night, or something like that, or not, Rhapsody, I don't know.

[12:05] Mike Abrams: We can find it. Probably know that. Yeah, no, it's okay. So, so you sit in a circle, and you're, you're getting told the story, what? What do you remember of that story? What did they tell you that you that that stuck with you?

[12:18] Speaker 2: Oh, so much it. I think that took a few hours, a couple hours, our director is so passionate, and he knew the words to all these poems by heart. He would just like say them. It was amazing. He went through every single moment of the show to the specificity of, oh, the cats are scared by Macavity, so Old Deuteronomy to make them feel better, brings forward skimble shanks and as a candidate for the heavy side layer selection to cheer up and reassure the tribe is like moments as specific as that and like why each scene flowed into the others, and we each read our own characters poems, and then at the end, I remember the director said, so don't let anyone tell you that cats doesn't have a plot.

[13:17] Mike Abrams: I mean completely. I think that's the part that's that's crazy. As I've done 150 plus episodes of this, there is not a plot in the sense that most of the audience is not going to pick up the entire story being told. But yeah, the more you dig into it, there is a lot happening, and there's a lot more that's unwritten that you could make assumptions about which is, again, why this my I've been able to continue this show, is because I'm able to kind of continue with those assumptions. And I think that's where I've been always fascinated. I was so excited to talk to you because you're it's not like your memory of it. It's not like you have to think back 30 years, like some people I talk to you are right in the middle of it right now, and so it's so fresh in your mind, and I get a different version every time I talk to somebody. And so I would love to hear a little bit about what relationships they told you. Your director told you that are truth with briza Bella, like, this is her relationship to bomb and Demeter, or this is her relationship to Victoria, or any of the other ones that you have that you can remember? Yeah, we were definitely told

[14:23] Speaker 2: what is specifically known about the character, and then the rest we kind of take on our take on ourselves, and figure out what is true for us. So what is known about Grizabella is that her and Jennie, any dots and jelly, Lauren and skimble shanks are around the same age. They grew up together, and her Grizabella and Jennie. Any dots are they were besties. They were separable, is what I was told as a known also that her relationship with bomb and Demi. Is that they all went through the same thing. Grizabella went off with Macavity. Was seduced by Macavity into this other life, and then got too far into it with the drinking and the drugs, and when she wanted to rejoin the tribe, it was too late. She had already they saw it as she had already made this choice. And whereas bomb and Demeter, first of all, I don't know if either of them necessarily chose to go with Macavity in the first place, or if they were coerced into going away with Macavity, but they both returned to the tribe willingly, and didn't leave the tribe willingly, whereas Grizabella did leave willingly. So while she looks for sympathy with them, they don't give that to her, even though, in grizabella's mind, they kind of went through the same thing. Victoria, to me, that's kind of, there's nothing known. The I guess other, the more known is that syllabub is kind of what Grizabella used to be. Grizabella sees herself in syllabub. And there's even a moment in the opening where I'm on stage as baby Grizz and syllabub is on stage, and we're in the same pose again. Like you said, no one's gonna necessarily notice that um, but it's just meant to be kind of reflective of their mirrored situations in different parts of life.

[16:47] Mike Abrams: I love that, because that's such an interesting the syllable piece is kind of well documented. And so having those little pieces that you're doing the same pose and you're together like, that's the stuff that allows these connections to work. And that's where I do think when you, you know, like, like your director said, that's the plot that's there. That's just not clearly defined for everybody. So there's nothing told for Victoria. There's a there's a camp that thinks that she might be your daughter. I

[17:14] Speaker 2: think that's possible. I don't I I've heard, I'm not 100% sure where I stand on that quite yet. I'm more solid on the fact that I think Manka strap and potentially Tugger are grizabella's children monkey strap, at least, because of just how similar their coloring is, I feel like that's got to be on purpose and just his, I don't know, natural ability for leader, natural inclination towards leadership and desire to be in that kind of public facing position, um and Tugger as well, to a degree, Victoria, I don't know, because I'm not sure about the ages, if that would work, or who so father would be, but I've definitely heard the theory of she left Victoria with the tribe because she knew she couldn't take care of her. I guess it could be, I'm not sure. I think it's maybe more likely she's like a grandchild, perhaps.

[18:20] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that. So I think a lot of the the rumor stems from her being the first one to reach out and touch you, and during memory is like, there is that relationship of, that's the, you know, the acceptance is, it's usually syllable, I believe or not syllable, it's usually Victoria, if I'm right. So there's this, like, thought that maybe it is daughter, granddaughter. Is interesting because I had not thought about the different age potentials, which means that maybe it's monk's child. Like, I don't know that's that's a whole different layer that we haven't talked about.

[18:50] Speaker 2: Oh, she could be monk's child. I could see that. I've also heard maybe syllabub is grizabella's granddaughter, and that's why syllabu is so drawn to her also, but my cast is still that's the exciting thing is we're still kind of working things out with familial relationships, and it's kind of changing every day, and that's really fun. And who knows, maybe it'll change every day when we're on the ship too. Maybe someday, sometimes she'll be my daughter, and sometimes she won't.

[19:23] Mike Abrams: I think that's the best part about this show, and probably as a performer, it's got to be one of the most exciting and interesting things, is you can do some of those things and the audience might not know, or a few people will catch on, but it doesn't materially change the show and the plot. And that, I think is really cool, because it gives you this opportunity to do a slightly different thing every night versus, I guess it's not eight shows a week. I think you do three four, but it seems it gives you that ability to flex and have some like nuances and try something different without like your choreographers and directors. Matt, you first completely changing the show. So it is, I actually went to the last tour and I gave them different things to try that night. I was like, All right, could you be a boy band? Could you do this? Could you have relationships here? Could you be attracted to this one? And they said it was a blast, because it took the mundane monotony out of having, like, the same show and the same show. I mean, they're doing it hundreds of times and freshening it just a little bit. So I can give you some ideas if you need them, but you haven't even done the full first one yet before.

[20:32] Speaker 2: I mean, I do love, yeah, I love stuff like that, though. Just throwing some new things in there, you can find some, really, I don't know, some new nuggets every time, if you kind of try to think of different things, I will say, I think that a couple of cast mates and I have thought of a familial relationship for Grizabella that I haven't heard theorized before, or maybe they did, and they passed that, but I haven't heard it before, and that is potentially Grizabella. Maybe is, I don't know if age Wise's works, but maybe she's Gus daughter, and when she left, that's when jelly Lauren started taking care of him, and that's where Grizabella got her desire to be a star from, I don't know just but also I think cats can have kittens at like, one year old, so who knows? Um, I've

[21:30] Mike Abrams: tried to figure out the family tree. Have failed miserably, and I know other people have. I've had people email me their attempts, and it's just really hard. And I think that's the point, because they're cats. But I've not heard that. I'm trying to think back if I've heard Grizz being Gus daughter, it does line up with the that's why she wanted to be a star. It also does explain jelly hatred towards grizzabella. I had always had a different theory, which I know I made up, so I know it didn't come from any lore or any like real thing, and it wouldn't work on your cast because you don't have a bust of her, but I knew that busta fur and Grizabella were friends growing up. That's a that is a supposed to be a fact. And so were Grizz and jelly Lorem, although this would make them maybe sisters, potentially, or some relationship. And I kind of thought that maybe busta for paid Macavity to be part of the crime gang, and that love triangles was got messy between jelly Griz and bustifer. So that was how I always thought, that that's where that hate came from, is it was a love triangle that got really messy and got really bad when she left and so, and I know that I made that up. There's no like documentation on that. No one's ever said that besides me on this podcast. But I do like the theory that Gus and Grizz. So Grizz is Gus daughter, and when she left to be a star, to follow in her dad's footsteps, jelly has to take over, and that's why jelly is mad that she has to take care of. You know, their their pops, when Grisel was doing it or helping,

[23:05] Speaker 2: yeah, lot of resentment there. That

[23:09] Mike Abrams: is, that is a fun one that would ruin a lot of people's theory that Gus should be the Jellicle choice, because he might not want to go over his daughter.

[23:21] Speaker 2: Oh, I never thought about that. Actually, I never thought about that aspect. I always just kind of thought, well, I guess we'll probably talk about it closer to the end, but I think Gus is tired,

[23:34] Mike Abrams: but yeah, I don't know well, and that again, also works, because if he's tired because his daughter left to go. Do you know, had a troubled past after trying to follow him. It's like he was successful. He had all this, you know, career and life in the spotlight. Daughter tries to do it, and kind of fails, and has a really bad life leading up to it. He's probably tired trying to bring her back over and over and over again. This brings a whole new dimension to this. I had not thought of.

[24:04] Speaker 2: It's fun to think of new, new ways that somehow end up working all the theories somehow make sense, not necessarily together, but somehow you can make them all make sense. That

[24:16] Mike Abrams: is, there are, yeah, that's exactly right. Some of them contradict each other, but there's so many ways you can do it, and that's the point is because there's not, there's not a book, there's not a written down jelly and Grizz or sisters, or that there's this, or that it's just a little bit of the lure of this director told this person, or these two people were roommates on the ship, and so they became friends, really good friends, and that's why they look like they're really good friends on stage, but their character shouldn't be friends, and that's how I think a lot of this takes shape. Is because of seeing those different relationships, because at the end of the day, you all are humans acting, performing as cats, doing something that's been around for 45 years or so at this point. Yeah.

[24:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an experience unlike any other, I will say. So even so far,

[25:07] Mike Abrams: exactly what are you most excited for going on the boat and getting ready to start doing the show on on a cruise ship?

[25:13] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm just excited to get to it's so fun first of all, my cast is so wonderful and lovely and kind and amazingly talented, and I can't wait to just be on stage with them in our full cats and just interact as cats and become a tribe even more than we're already becoming, I think that's and traveling the world also, but yeah,

[25:45] Mike Abrams: and are you ready? I mean, one thing I found fascinating about the cruise version is, is there's just a lot of variables that don't exist in a stage with, you know, the you know, you've got seasickness and a rocking boat potentially, and you've got a crowd that's not a paid crowd, per se, so you've got a very like a very different crowd each each week and each night even. So, how do you mentally prepare, or how's your cast preparing for some of those unforeseen nuances that are part of live theater, but even more part of live theater on a cruise ship?

[26:19] Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, I mean, I've, I've read a lot of the cats reviews, and I know that a lot of people do tend to leave. That's just something I think we have to be ready for. Um, it's just not for everyone, and that's okay, um, but when it comes to like the rocking of the ship or anything like that, I feel like that's just gonna have to be something we get used to on board, or bring a lot of non drowsy Dramamine. And hope for the best we did get. We for the other show, and I think potentially for cats as well, depending on the track, we have two different sets of shoes if we wear heels. So we can have we can wear flats if it's an extremely rocky night, apparently

[27:11] Mike Abrams: you have better grip for your for your paws. If you have wild night, that's that are, those are little things I think are just to me, fascinating is, like, I didn't know about a rake stage for, you know, until the show. And learning about that, and learning about trying to do that with, you know, potentially, waves and is just such a different piece of live theater that you have to deal with, for sure. All right, so let's do a little rapid fire. I'm gonna take Grizabella out of the equation. But if you could go on for one night for one cat, it doesn't matter if you could dance, sing, male, female, any cat. Who would you want to go on for one night as feel

[27:54] Mike Abrams: go wreak havoc and have fun. Yeah, he's so fun. So here I have a follow up on that, because is that your natural personality, like of that, like, very outgoing, or is that the exact opposite of your personality? That's

[28:10] Speaker 2: the opposite of my personality? I mean, it depends on the day I'm, you know, some situations, sure, but on a day to day basis, I wouldn't say I am as much the life of the party as he is, but he is quite an extreme. I just think it'd be so fun to to be literally chaos.

[28:30] Mike Abrams: I agree I asked, because that's always been an answer for me, and it's the exact opposite of my personality, and which is why I think it would be fun, because I think you can, you only answer that question, I think one of two ways, either it's the exact opposite of your personality, or this is you to a T in cat form, and you want to go do it if you're not already doing it. And so it's always fun to kind of hear it seems to be common. Everyone's like, I want to do the one that's so far out of my norm that it would be fun. And that's Tugger for a lot of people. So that's right, that makes sense. Who are your favorite and least favorite characters? Okay,

[29:06] Speaker 2: for favorites, I think skimble is my favorite. And I don't know if that stemmed from the seeing the revival and just getting a picture with him, but I even before I got the picture, I was like, I liked that train song that was fun. I also have a soft spot for core capat and tanta mile. I just think I love watching them. And it's just it takes a lot of, I don't know, a lot of skill, to truly be able to move as seamlessly together as they have to. It's just it's enchanting to watch. I agree. Lee's favorite. That's hard, because what if my cast mates see this? And I know

[29:47] Mike Abrams: so I would say, take the people. Take the people out of it. Which character would bug you? It's like, which family member drives you crazy? Ones one is definitely gives you much harder time than

[29:58] Speaker 2: the other. Ooh. I mean. For someone who would actually drive me crazy in real life, Tugger would actually drive me crazy. Um, just funny, because I just said I wanted to go on for him, but like, as a person, yeah, he'd probably annoy me.

[30:13] Mike Abrams: Okay, what about favorite song from the show? Ooh,

[30:17] Speaker 2: I mean, to watch the ball. It's not really a song that we

[30:22] Mike Abrams: know. I think that's a song, yeah,

[30:25] Speaker 2: yeah. I think the ball also, yeah, the beginning of the ball they they do sing, and it's just, it's beautiful. I I just love, I love the bad, yeah.

[30:34] Mike Abrams: All right. My fun one is, which cat do you think would be living their best life as a cruiser on your ship so as a guest, ooh.

[30:45] Speaker 2: You know, I think Jenny, any dots, needs that. I think she needs a vacation. And I think she would nap on the beach all day and not train her mice and roaches and have a grand old time.

[31:00] Mike Abrams: I love it. I wasn't thinking who needed it. I was thinking who would have the most fun, and so and and I also think the one that would just be on most is busifer, which is probably why he's not in the show, because he's busy eating and, like, roaming his way around in his suite, because he's rich. Yeah, he's he's just there watching, okay, all right, here's the million dollar question it's always fun to ask of Grizabella, especially somebody who is in the process of being told all the reasons why you are the Jellicle choice. I want to know, do you think Grizabella should be the Jellicle choice? And if so, why? And if not, who would you pick as your Jellicle choice?

[31:42] Speaker 2: I do think Grizabella should be the Jellicle choice. I do feel like I am paid to say that, though, but I would think that anyway, at least playing the part. Because, well, honestly, I have a kind of different take that I haven't heard before, but I think Grizabella is not necessarily aiming to be the Jellicle choice. I think I'm just trying to go and get my family back, and this is the one night that they're all together. This is my chance to redeem myself. I don't think I necessarily enter with the thought of I'm going to like, snag that Jellicle choice. I'm going to be reborn. I just want my family back, even if I died right after. I don't think that Grizabella would care. I think she just wants to be accepted again. And I think it's Deuteronomy kindness that says you messed up this time. So, like, you deserve another chance to to do better.

[32:47] Mike Abrams: I don't disagree with that. I've been on this same take for a long time, but I don't understand why you can't spend the year with them and be next year's. Like, do you not have a year left? You just said you're 25 like I think you you got the year left, right?

[33:04] Speaker 2: I think Grizabella doesn't. I don't know if it's the drugs or just she is not in very good health. And I have been directed after big memory that when before Victoria touches her, when no one touches her, to turn away and leave to go die, because you I don't want anyone watching me. I can't have them watching me, and I'm going to go die right now. So, yeah, I don't think she has another year, even if accepted. I think that the confession took everything from her, but I think she would have been happy, even if she wasn't the Jellicle choice, because

[33:50] Mike Abrams: she gets to go home. I think that's the part that I don't have any argument against the redemption story of being accepted to the family and wanting that back and being accepted. I just have always thought that there's a moment when they re accept her. Why does that? Why can't she spend one more year and go next year and have this like amazing time with her family, rehab, get clean and spend time with your granddaughter and your father and whoever else? We've decided to believe the relationships come from and go next year and send somebody else up this year, or even send your dad up this year, who seems like he's also on his last leg.

[34:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I think at least the way I have been directed, I don't think she has another year. I don't think she has another day. I think regardless, she would have died that night, like whether she went up to the heavy side layer or not. And I just, I think the only reason that she was picked over Gus, in my mind, is that Gus lived a very fulfilling life, and she doesn't necessarily need another Gus. No, like he did good. Grizabella needs to come back again and, like, fix, fix what she did, and be a good member of the tribe, be a contributing member of the tribe, whereas Gus already fulfilled that.

[35:18] Mike Abrams: So she's coming back to then she's gonna be baby grace and have a full new time to be part of the family and redo her life without all the problems this

[35:28] Speaker 2: time. Yeah, that's what I think. Yeah, yeah, it's

[35:33] Mike Abrams: hard. You're as we're talking you're a couple weeks away from going on. So I did not expect you to give me a different answer, because your entire mindset every night is going into why you should be the choice. So I thought it'd be very difficult to argue against it, but it's really still fun to ask, Has your cast talked at all about this?

[35:52] Speaker 2: Um, briefly, I mentioned it to our Gus the other day that I was going on this podcast. And I was like, yeah, the probably, you know, part of the premise is, like, Gus should be the choice. That's what this that's what they strongly believe over there. And he was like, yeah, obviously Gus should be the choice. And I, honestly, I don't think that. I think either one is is right. I don't think that one is wrong necessarily. I I just, I understand the reasoning, yeah, but I think either way, both of them died like that day, probably,

[36:32] Mike Abrams: okay, yeah, so they both are, yeah, that's the argument. They're both against Gus. They're not made by a thread. Yeah, I can tell you this show actually started. Gus is the most common non Grizabella answer, and I think makes the most logical sense. But this show started on the premise that I want an American Idol X Factor version, where I want audience voting based on who performed the strongest that night, and I want it to be different every night. And I think you could do that, and on the cruise ship. You all could easily make that happen. And I'm waiting for some regional production, or your cruise, or somebody to finally say it's time. It's time to do a different version, and not really different version, just different ending every night. And I'm ready. I'm ready for whoever I can convince to finally let me do that. I've

[37:19] Speaker 2: seen and heard of a couple shows, not cats, but, you know, the audience chooses the ending, or it's a different ending every time, just kind of randomly selected and that that could be interesting. It

[37:33] Mike Abrams: works. It definitely works because you still have everything else. And you can do exactly this. You can sing memory. You can go walk off to die. You can still get touched, to be, you know, by Victoria. And then you just pause there, and she's accepted into the family. And then now we vote for who gets to go up to the heavy side layer. So the whole story says exact same. The only nuance I think that I have to solve with this is there's the addressing of cats at the end. And I think Old Deuteronomy says it, if I'm not mistaken, yeah, somebody sings that. And so if Old Deuteronomy saying it wins is voted, then we have to have a backup plan for who's gonna sing that song. Oh, yeah, easy to sing hard, but we just need to take over. That's the variation. So that's my goal. That's what we're here for. And I've still not been able to go see, see it on the Oasis of the Seas. One day. I hope I will be able to fulfill that and hop on the cruise and go, I think you're going international at some point, though, right? It's the boat is going international. So going to Europe, yeah, even more fun than just the Caribbean and get to see new parts of the world.

[38:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait. I will say, I think the only hole in the American Idol cats version plan is that I think, I mean, Grizabella was not even a character when cats was first conceived, and the reason she was added was to give more of a through line and to give the audience someone to root for. And I think it would be somewhat unsatisfying, just the way the show is structured, if the person that they're you're enticed to root for, then doesn't have that validation of winning. So something would have to be tweaked. I think,

[39:28] Mike Abrams: let me tell you why I disagree with that. I don't, I don't fully disagree with it, but I partially disagree with it because, having watched years of those shows, X Factor, America's Got Talent. American Idol, you pick any of them, they do an amazing job of having at least one or two sob stories, and they like really build up the three minute video clip you watch before they perform. And there is someone that they are pushing you to root for, but that person does not always win. And so I think that. That is part of the essence of that show is that you have because you could do the same thing for a lot of the other ones you could make. You could put the most amazing video packages of Jenny any dots and what she's gone through as a mom, working and sleeping and teaching all these kids in the underprivileged cockroaches and mice and whatever you could make the three minute cut video package that would be incredible, and make her the like the choice. And you would be able to do that for half of the cats. Imagine Gus is, you know, this guy who hasn't had so I think you still have that like. The premise of that show does also really lead to that last person being usually the most heartfelt story, and what they believe is probably one of the most show stopping numbers, which would be memory. So I think it works still with that show premise, just the way that show is naturally built because of the way they cut those little mini packages in between.

[40:58] Speaker 2: Could thing, you know, I when it happens, if it happens, I will happily go see it and support it. I think it'd be fun, for sure. I'd be curious to see how can be our Grizabella, I'm honored

[41:12] Mike Abrams: you just, just be ready. You might not go up every night. You might have to sing the addressing of cats and go hang out and walk off stage because somebody else goes up that night, because they invited their entire family.

[41:24] Speaker 2: I'm sure by the end of this run of cats, I will know the addressing of cats, I'll be ready.

[41:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah, okay. This has been super fun. I will link for anybody that wants to go on the Oasis, so that sees how to how to get to that. But how can people stay in touch with you on social media.

[41:41] Speaker 2: I have an Instagram at Yarden bar. Just my name, that's probably the best way. Yeah, awesome. Well,

[41:51] Mike Abrams: link it all. Thank you so much. This has been so fun to have you. I can't wait for you to actually go and get to perform and do this on the cruise ship and have a blast being Grizabella.

[42:01] Speaker 2: Me too. Can't wait. This has been fun. Well,

[42:05] Mike Abrams: thank you, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown, the cash test fee to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or at Austin's podcast, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, tick tock and threads at the wrong cat died, or check out website, the wrong cat died.com.