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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpn.fm to discover more.

[0:20] Speaker 2: to

[0:28] Mike Abrams: the Ron cat died the podcast breakdown the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have three amazing guests. This past April, a wonderful university in Windsor, Ontario Canada called St Clair College did a production of Cats, and it was pretty much all I saw on social media for weeks, I knew I had to learn more about this production to share with you all. So joining me today is the director, Kristen wilensky, who played Cassandra on the fifth US national tour in 2006 as well as Tatum Roy and Cameron Winick Lee Lewis, who played bomb Valley arena and Demeter. So thank you all three for joining me, and I'm excited to learn all about your production today.

[1:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for having us. Thank you. I will

[1:10] Mike Abrams: start by saying I played a lot of hockey in Windsor growing up being from Indiana, so I am very familiar with your town, but as a young child, and so I was excited to see that you all were doing this, and I want to hear about your production, because again, it flooded my social media feed in the best way possible for a good couple weeks. So I want to actually just start at the beginning, because this is by doing this as a university for essentially a long weekend, right? Like it's a very short run, there's, you don't get to pick the show, right? So I'd love to hear what was your reaction when you decided to do cats and heard that you were gonna do cats as your show. So

[1:53] Speaker 4: I have a little bit of a say in it. So basically, what I do is I take, I kind of look at the cast, I look at what we have and what we kind of want to highlight, and then I come up with five or six shows that I pitched to the president of the college and the chair of our program. And I kind of say, Do you have a opinion here? And we were kind of between cats and Spongebob and the theater company that comes in right out, like right after us into the theater, they announced, before we did that they're doing Spongebob, which kind of landed us on cats. And we I was excited about it, because I love the show, and I know it very, very well, but I didn't know how they were going to handle it there. There were a few that I knew that have had a ton of dance training who were going to be super pumped. But I would say the majority of the students that come in here don't have a ton of dance training before they start the program, so to take on a show like cats was a huge risk, but I was pretty confident we could pull it off with the group of students that we had. So I was nervous announcing it. I'll let them tell you how they felt about it when it came out.

[3:17] Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't have much experience with cats. I knew memory, and that was kind of about I always thought it was kind of weird, so I never loved it. And it was announced that it was a possibility that we could be doing it. So I started watching the movie like the 1998 and 88 and then I couldn't finish watching it because it made me so uncomfortable. But then, like, it was actually announced that we were doing it. And I was like, Okay, I have to do it, so I'm gonna, like, try and enjoy this. So I sat down and watched the whole thing again and kind of treated it like, how are they dancing? And was kind of studying the dancing more than anything. And then I was like, Oh, this is actually kind of really cool. And then through the entire rehearsal process, I actually started to really enjoy it. So I always say I became a cat hater to a cat lover. Um, but yeah, that was my experience, um, for me,

[4:19] Speaker 5: um, cat hater, like, did not want to do the show. May have screamed into my pillow when it was in now, but because I didn't really see, like, the appeal in it, like, I just thought, like, a bunch of horny cats and like, warmers like that was like, the if I got in the show, um, but like, Christmas break rolled around, and I, like, Finally, like, sat down to, like, watch it, and then I was like, why is this kind of exciting? So, but I couldn't let anyone know about that first so, like, I had to, like, keep the mom down, though, for a bit. And then, you know, grew to love it. And it was, like, such a fun experience. So, yeah, so now neither,

[4:56] Mike Abrams: neither of you had seen it before. It's just kind of like one of those. Shows that you had kind of, I'll say hated with, you know, quotation marks, because you didn't know much about it, and it's just got this kind of weird vibe and ambience around it. So is that it, or was it more of a like, This? Is like, what was the hate? Is it just the weirdness and not knowing? Um,

[5:18] Speaker 5: okay, well, for me, like, before I came to St Clair, I was doing a lot of, like, Grotowski cat work. So like, just like, the appeal of like, being a cat was not fun for me, but like, yeah, like, I didn't really see it, so I guess I did not get much of a chance.

[5:34] Speaker 3: Yeah. And for me, in musicals, I really appreciate realism and more veering on, like, oh, I can really relate to this as a person. And also when I'm acting to that, you know, makes it easier to connect with. So for me, cats is like, I I don't know how I'm supposed to do this, but yeah, obviously that wasn't the experience I had, but going into it, that's was my mindset? Yeah,

[6:01] Mike Abrams: that makes sense. I always ask this question because I've yet to hear a really, like, thoughtful, deep reason of hate. It's always just like, I didn't understand it. I didn't get it. It was kind of weird. But there's never been so it seems like that's, that's still the thing, but now you have converted into deep cats fans because of this. Yeah, I love it. That's, I think that's the way we're going to change the opinion in America, is just make more people have to do it. Okay, so let's dive in now to you start this process. You find out you're doing it, and you get into the rehearsal. You're watching this 1998 movie, which is super weird to watch in a, in a like, any setting I watched on a plane, which was a huge mistake. Um, but, but I wanted, I want to hear a little bit about, like, how you got into, then the storytelling and the arc of knowing that you have this rehearsal process where you have to learn the dance numbers, you have to learn the singing and the choreography, you have to learn all these different pieces. But also there's the like, how do you be a cat and how do you portray your story? And like, the storylines that you two both had with bomb Valerian and Demeter play off of each other a lot. So I love to hear how much story goes into a production that is only going to run for a very short window, versus just make sure you're here so you don't kick this person when you do this dance number, like, what's the balance of that?

[7:24] Speaker 4: Okay, listen, they did once, I kind of told them, once they bought into the idea of doing the show, they deep dived into the internet and quickly found the hardcore fans of the musical and would show up to rehearsal, and they would have all of these theories that they had never heard of before. So the amount of work that they put in, like one of them came to Victoria and misto came to rehearsal one day, and they're like, we're brother and sister, and bustaford Jones is our dad, and I said I did not know that, but let's run with it. So I kind of just let them deep dive into the internet find which theory and which story they kind of wanted to roll with, as far as their individual characters. Like I know, there's some people think that bomb and Demeter are lovers, and some people think that bomb and Demeter are best friends, and as a director, I'm going to let them run with whatever they want to run with, because it's going to help them connect a little bit more to their own character into their own story. But the amount of that time they spent on cats fan down was incredible. It's

[8:43] Mike Abrams: a, it's a deep dive that you can go into on the internet. That's how I ended up here. And the exact same thing, I knew nothing, and I went down the internet rabbit hole. And here we are 160 70 episodes later. Yeah, which was not the plan. So okay, so I, I've never heard Victoria Mustafa's brother, sister with bus for dad. So this is, this is fun. What did you all find like? What was your like? What was your story that you drafted up for bomb Valley, arena and Demeter? Well,

[9:14] Speaker 3: for us, bomb and Demeter, we kind of figured this out when we watched the film and we were like, they're for sure, lovers just like how they look at each other, how they interact with each other, so that we kind of knew that going into it, that was kind of set and Demeter being the, you know, scared, skittish cat with trauma, and then bomb is just always there, kind of looking after her yet,

[9:42] Speaker 5: um, I know, like, we did a lot of, like, hanging out and like, kind of like debriefing, like, what we thought, like, the relationship would be, because I know, like, like, you had, like, so above was your daughter too, right? Yeah. Like, so above my daughter, it was my cavity. That was the dad. And among the charms. Again, the fatherly position,

[10:01] Speaker 3: yeah, yeah, that was my storyline.

[10:07] Speaker 5: And like, for me, like, I kind of had it as, like, Demeter and her were lovers, but, like, not in, like, the sense, like, I cared more, I think, than you did about the relationship, like you were just too busy with your trauma, yeah, yeah, focus on me. Yeah.

[10:23] Mike Abrams: Okay, I Yeah. I don't even, I don't know where start. It's, it's so fun because there's, I have asked the, I mean, on social media, I threw up, I made a meme making a bomb and demeanor lovers joke, and I got a lot of responses, like, right away being like, they're sisters. That's gross, and, like, you know, just all kinds of stuff. So I threw it out on social media and made a poll, and I got a 5050, split of like, Are they friends or sisters or something else? And it was crazy to me, because I still don't know. I don't think they're sisters. It seems like that's pretty that feels like the answer, but there's a group that is adamant that they are the Lovers versus friends. One is very interesting. I mean, part of it is cats are cats, so they're a little all, all doing whatever they are doing. But I remember, I think 10 was it you that replied to one of the memes I made, that even made a comment about that? And I was like, I was like, this, this version, this version of cavity, if it might be interesting, if you are taking that direction.

[11:24] Speaker 4: And it was, yeah, so

[11:28] Mike Abrams: I want to ask a little bit too about it sounds like, if you gave, how much of the story, then did you give? If you kind of let a lot of the relationship piece be up to them and the Internet fan theories, there still has to be some like, this is for sure. This is the through line. This is what we know. But how much of that do you get into?

[11:48] Speaker 4: Well, for each character kind of has their own little journey. So I like kind of having two different perspectives on this. I like having, when I was working on it, when I was in the show, I have the perspective from all of the other cats, right? Like I played Cassandra, so I know what my relationship was with all of these other people. So I kind of dove in with the majority of the cast, as far as, like, Okay, this is your relationship here. You know, we didn't have a Play Doh, because we had a bet. We had 20 in our cast, so we had to make some adjustments. As far as, like the classic storyline, we didn't have a play. Doh, so I used monkey strap to kind of build the relationship with Victoria, just because that's who I needed to use. And I kind of played this whole mug is trap Victoria, Grizabella, Macavity, parallel line. So I dove into the story a lot with some of the characters, but then I also left a little bit of a mystery for the other character. So, like, I dove into this whole world with Grizabella. And for me, it was like, Okay, this is your secondary reality, right? Like, what I basically, what we went into was this story that she was trying to be selected, but really it was her choice to be selected, because all of these cats were like, a little piece of her, right? You know, Cassandra was her strength and her pride, right? And bomb was her, you know, attractiveness and appeal, and Victoria and moncuss Drop kind of represented where she took a turn for the worst. So I kind of had Grizabella always on the stage anytime Victoria and monkey strap were together, just kind of peering into what storyline that was. And that's just kind of where we went with that. And, you know, I told her, I was like, okay, in our version, here you were at one point, Victoria and your monkey strap was Macavity. And you kind of went off with Macavity into he kind of took you off, and at that point, he wasn't going to let you go, he was going to keep you on the dark side. And you tried to get out, but he, you know, abused you for years, and that's kind of what took you away. So now that you've come back into the tribe, and now that you've you've got away, you've escaped from a cavity, you've come back into the tribe, they don't believe you. They think that you made this choice to go away with Macavity, and now they're all shunning you. So not only have you left the tribe on your own initiative initially, but then he kind of kept you there. Abused you for years. You came back, and now nobody believes you. That's why you're here. And she saw herself in every single one of these characters, like I told her. I was like, okay, for me, what we're gonna play here is Jenny's your mom, west of hers, your dad. You know, Cassandra was your best. Friend. That's why she's always the first to kind of challenge you when you enter the scene. Bob and Demeter kind of represent the scaredness from Macavity, but also the sex appeal from Macavity. Victoria and Manka strap represent the initial relationship you had most Macavity. That's why she's always peering. That's why within the when she would sing her songs memory. I would have her find Victoria at some point, and I I had Victoria kind of move all around the stage, so she really had to search for her when she found her, and warn her that things could go bad for her, you know, but also kind of reliving the beautiful that once was. So I dove into storyline a lot with Grizabella, just because I feel like it's a weird character to try to make sense of. You know, she just kind of appears and sings a song and then she gets picked. But why does she get picked? And I was trying to make sense of that, at least for her and for myself. But so it was really like. But for all of the characters, it was really a play. You know, I kind of led them through the story, but they also brought their own to it, and I embraced it. And if they said, This is what we're doing, I said, let's roll with it. Let's give that a try.

[16:16] Mike Abrams: That's amazing. I I love a couple things that you said I had not thought about, I'd never really thought about each cat being a piece of like Grizabella and her story, if you angle that, mostly probably because I view this from the lens of, she shouldn't have been picked. So I don't like think that much about her, of her storyline, but, but that's a very interesting way to think about it. So I want to ask, on that note, what's Gus piece

[16:40] Speaker 4: is pieced her, and I told Gus, I said, you are, you are the grandpa. There's two different ways that we can look at it. When Gus is telling the piece, Gus is like the grandpa who has lived the life and is telling the story. So when she views Gus, she is back in her you kind of listening to the end of life story, which is really where Grizabella is for me. You know, in this piece, Grizabella is at the end of the life so she kind of visualizing looking back on everything that she has done, has she done enough to be picked? Has she not done enough to be picked? That's kind of where the gust lies for me, but also she kind of sees what's coming for her if she's not picked, you know, it's this constant sense of reliving the past, which for her, she does not want, because once she left the tribe, things got real bad over there with Mr. Mccavity. So to have to, like, it's, you know, to have to relive those experiences if she's not the one picked, if she's not the one who can get out of there, that's kind of where Gus went for me. But again, only from the Grizabella perspective, right? Like the cats who are in the show have a completely different perspective of Grizabella, right? Everybody thinks Gus should be picked. Gus is the cutest. Gus is the best you know. Like, Gus is great. So from the cat's perspective, Gus is the person you know. But just kind of where I went with trying to make sense of the story, which, again, the audience has no idea what we're doing. They're just like, like, our MD, John, who just said so many times to me, he's like, Kristen, it's just about cats. And I was like, not John, it's about so much more. He's like, just a bunch of songs about cats. I was like, we'll agree to disagree. John,

[18:36] Mike Abrams: The one thing I have learned over the years is that there are a lot of people that don't know it's just cats about cats and songs about cats, and there are a lot of people that know way more than the four of us do know every inch of this musical. And so there's probably somebody in that audience that has an opinion on some of the relationships you're playing. So Cameron Tatum, I want to hear from YouTube as you heard the story that you were given, but you did your deep dive of the internet lore. So I want to hear what did you necessarily first of all, what did you read that you were like, wow, I would have never thought that. Like, just kind of opened your eyes. Like, that's a relationship I just didn't think of. And then also, what did you all add where you were like, hey, the internet might have missed here, we're gonna put this story together. We

[19:25] Speaker 3: had come up with the whole Sylla Bub being my, you know, daughter from Macavity, that whole storyline, because Brooklyn, who played syllabub, had come to me and was like, I read this on wiki fandoms, and I was like, oh, that's kind of fun. Um, so everything for me kind of built off of that, um, my own personal storyline and journeys throughout the show, you know, because all of the cats are there and they walk. Want to be picked, right? They're all the delicate ball, and they want to be picked. And, you know, that's the whole thing. So at the beginning of the show, that was kind of my mindset for Demeter, was like, I want to be picked. I want to, you know, get out of this trauma. Because in my mind, this is my first delical ball back from leaving the cavity, um, and then every time syllabub would sing, you know, the memory reprise, that would kind of be the one thing that I would cling on for hope that was there. And then the last, like the actual memory, the last time syllabub sang her little section. I was like, Oh, I meant to stay here. So then when Grizabella went to the heavy side layer, it made sense to me, and me as my character, I was like, I'm happy for her. And I wanted to say because till about was there, and she was kind of like my life. So I don't know that's kind of something that I personally rolled with.

[21:07] Mike Abrams: I love it. It's a to me, anything that's new, I just because there's, I don't again. I don't think there's a right or wrong on this. Like, there's some people that will say that, that will hear this, and we'll be like, well, there's no way, but there's, there's not written stories. A lot of it's lore. And so I love anytime you're putting it together, because it allows you to make those moments on stage more authentic and more real, which I think has to happen, since it's supposed to be a family. So I think it's cool to hear these different relationships that maybe hadn't been spoken before, maybe has only been done in certain things. So it's cool. Maybe, I also hope that maybe you're influencing the next cast that does this. Of like, All right, we're gonna make syllabubs demeters daughter, and Macavity is a dad, and here's we're gonna run with that now. Yeah,

[21:50] Speaker 4: well, even things like Brooklyn came in and she was like, I am demeters daughter. I was like, Cool. Let's put you in the same color unit chart. So, you know, like, we just kind of rolled with what the relationships they built so and then we cost you them accordingly.

[22:08] Speaker 5: Well, for me, I did a lot of, like, deep diving, but I couldn't find, like, a lot for for bomb, like, I know, like, she didn't really have, like, much of a family tree, like, at least from what I saw, so I kind of like interpreted it for her that, like she was just kind of like this, like, like cool, like fun, ant type energy, um, especially with, like Sylla Bubs, like, I think like, um while, like Demeter was, like, off with her little like trauma moments like, I would probably like, take care of Sylla Bub and I, like, also tried to just kind of see like, more like for me, like, just who I was on stage with a lot, and like, kind of who I interacted with. And like, I also, like, had some moments with like, Rum Tum and Manka strap. So it's like, kind of like just seeing like, I didn't think that she had a very strong like relationship aside from like Demeter, but like everyone else, like, it was just more of like a here for like, a good time, not a long time, and just kind of, like having fun with things. And I think that's that is also why for me, like, with wanting her to be the Jellicle choice, was that, like, I think that she was just tired of being like, everyone's like second choice, and she just wanted to be at someone's first choice for once, like, because run to my missed off belief and like demeanor, still dealing with, like, Macavity and, you know, like, she didn't really have anyone that, like, picked her, so, like, that was kind of like the the vibe I had going in with with Taiwan to portray her.

[23:34] Mike Abrams: I love it. Well, we can make the case at the end here for, oh, I should give me the choice. I want to hear Chris. I wanted to go back a little bit just because, before we get to Tiktok, and we're going to talk about Tiktok and social media here in a second, but I want to hear a little bit about your experience on the fifth tour, getting to do Cassandra throughout the United States, kind of going on tour. And just the difference of like, being able to take that experience of doing it as a performer, to bring to then directing it at a university. So tell me a little bit about what your experience was like on tour as Cassandra.

[24:08] Speaker 4: I really relate with Cassandra, because I pretty much am Cassandra in real life, especially on tour. You know, I wasn't really one to go hang out at, like the hotel bar after we got home, I just kind of did my own thing. I, you know, passed people in the hallway. Hey, how you doing? And that's just kind of how I am. I'm pretty big introvert. I would think within life just I enjoy my alone time much like Cassandra does. So it really transferred, you know, I loved playing her so much that when I had the opportunity to go back and direct the show that she's so much in my body that I would just kind of take over. While I was teaching choreography and stuff like that, and I am not the same age I was back then, and I may have broke a few muscles because I just you can't not go for it, but your body also doesn't move the same way it used to. So I my audition story is kind of wild for cats. I everybody already told always told me my whole life. They're like, You are great for the show. You should do the show. And I was like, I don't really know, like, uh, cool. Maybe if it happens, it happens. And I had not auditioned the day before, and I was I pushed too hard, and I just wasn't in the zone, and I couldn't pick up the choreography. And I was so mad that I really wanted it. And I was so mad when I got cut, so I kind of showed up to the cats audition the next day, like a little jaded and pissed off and angry, which kind of led into the whole Cassandra vibe, super great. So, like, I just went to town on that audition and let all my frustrations from the day before out, and they called me like the next day, and they're like, so you're Cassandra. And I said, That checks out. Absolutely it does, based on, you know, the my experience. I said to them, when we picked cats, I said, it is a weird show to watch, but it is the most fun show I have ever done in my entire career, just because of the so many different ways you can take it, right, you know? And so many different things happen on stage, you know. And this weird thing happens to the entire cast, where you kind of actually really turn into the cats that you're playing. It's wild to watch. And again, like my cat was kind of aloof and jaded and confused by everybody's behavior. So when things like that kind of started to happen on stage, I was like, what? Like, you cannot make that jump like you're a human. We're not really cat. But I mean, they went for it, like people went for things that cats could do and humans couldn't do, and most of the time, they executed pretty well. And I was always surprised. I was like, Wow, good for you. If I could go back 20 years again and pick a show to do again, it would be the show in a heartbeat. So getting to kind of relive it from another perspective, was phenomenal, and directing the show was a completely wild, different experience, because when I was on tour, I was very self involved and only cared about what I was doing as per my character. And I got to deep dive into, like, the other characters that were in the show. And I kind of got to see, like, okay, like, wow, there are other cats on the stage besides me, and, you know, so I got to explore grizabella's path, and I got to kind of spend some time with Victoria, which, if I were doing it, I'm considerably too tall to ever play a kitten or to play Victoria. So to kind of get to spend some time in those other characters was it was really fun, like I really enjoyed the two kind of separate perspectives that I had working on the show.

[28:10] Mike Abrams: One thing you said that I completely agree with, and I hear a lot, is, is that the freedom while still following kind of the path of the story, and you know, you hit your marks, and the dance doesn't change. But there's a lot of like every night can be different. And so when you're on a tour where you're sometimes three cities in one week, and it can feel like a grind, it does give a little bit of that ability that I don't know if you'd get in every other show, where it's like you have to hit this mark exactly at this time and exactly this and, you know, there's a character, and also, since they're cats, you can have a little bit more of interpretation. I also did, you mentioned that you, you know, you dove into some of your your experience during this rehearsal process. And I will say those, some of those videos, you know, made the internet. I don't know if you're aware of that. I am aware of that. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died. I want to talk about the social media side of things, because one thing that has been an unexpected surprise for me of this show is I know about the, you know, the official big productions happening, and I don't usually know about a regional theater doing it, or a college production, or any of these that pop up until all of a sudden, I have like 15 new followers, and they're all like commenting, and then all of a sudden it starts. It's my entire for you page on tick tock and everything else. And I love it every time, because it's so fun to see. One is usually it's seeing people that were cats haters turned cats lovers. You know, there's usually that, like transition, but also there's the journey of figuring out your story and character. And for me, having 100 plus episodes of people you can go dig into, it's kind of, I never thought about that as a way that's like, almost a research tool for you all to be able to go and look and see, hey, here's what this person who did it in a. 1987 said about the show and their character. So I want to hear about how much thought goes into your social media when you're doing this, when you have this opportunity that's super unique and very visual, versus how much of just like we're here, we're filming, we're just gonna film everything if they're out on the internet. I

[30:19] Speaker 4: mean, they filmed everything, and they threw it on the internet, you know, like,

[30:27] Speaker 5: I think my first tick tock I made was, like, it was, I think it was like the end of January or February, and we had like this, like, just like this program party, and there's like, 10 of us left, and they made like a drunk, like, cats, tick tock, where we, like, just, like, did, like, opening angelical, because, like, at the time that was, I think all we had blocked, so we had done that. And I was like, this is really funny. I kind of want to post it. And I did, and, yeah, like the rest of it was like, I was, like, trying to think of things like, I know, like, for you, like you can obviously speak more about it, but like you were more like the rehearsal process. And like mine was more like the the silly, like people going method during cats and that's weird. Like my Tiktok were more of like the silly, like, like, offs off, like, rehearsal process, like, like, stuff.

[31:24] Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of, I've never been a big social media person until like, last semester, and I was like, Oh, I can just make silly videos that I think are entertaining, and maybe other people will find them entertaining, and I enjoy the process of, like, editing them and going through the footage and all that. So when I knew we were doing cats, I was like, Oh, this is gonna be entertaining. I was like, This is gonna be fun. So I never had the expectation of, like, wanting them to get a lot of views. I was just like, Oh, I think views are funny and I wanna share them. But yeah, I would go into rehearsals being like media Cameron is in today. I will be taking Tiktok footage. So whenever I wasn't having to do blocking, I would be like in the corner, and then if I was going up, I would get someone else to be in the corner and record. There was a lot of footage to go through, but I always, I kind of had some sort of plan going in of, like, today I'm going to do, like, lives, and tomorrow I'm going to do, like, Kristen cleaning the numbers. But, yeah, so mine was kind of more rehearsal process and all that to take people behind the

[32:35] Speaker 4: scenes. Yeah, people love cats on the internet. It's just, it's shocking, and it's, I'm gonna outta them here. But when they, when we first started this rehearsal process, they said to me, they're like, Kristen, they're like, Are there any videos of you doing cats? And I was like, No, you guys, like, this was in 2006 like, there's still flip phones. Like, nobody had a camera on their phone. Somebody would have had to smuggle like a camcorder into the theater and record the entire show without getting caught by like an usher, and then transpose that so it would be digital? Well, sure enough, they I was like, it doesn't exist. It's not out there. Don't look for it. So Tatum over here spent one night deep, diving into the internet, and found a full bootleg copy of the 2006 cats tour. And I got a message the next day saying I found it, and now we're having a watch party. And I thought, Oh, great, here we go.

[33:39] Speaker 5: And that hard. It really wasn't that hard. It was that hard. So

[33:43] Speaker 3: it was, she's very good stalking. It was hard. So

[33:56] Mike Abrams: Yeah, well, we can. We can link it here in the episode description, video. It might get, hopefully doesn't get taken down. If I do that, right, it's, that's, yeah, I mean, they're, they're, most of them are there. It's, I have been able to find at least, maybe not a full production, but a number or two from almost anything. It's like, the depths of YouTube is deep, but it is true that it's like, it's, it wasn't a flip phone, like, it's not like now, where everyone's got some camera in their pocket and they can try to sneak their way in. And in some cases, I don't know how much the theaters care. I know they do, and you want to like, have that, but seems like performers really like it, because it's like, cool to see those moments. Um, but I love that you found it. I love that you dug deep, and that you like really, all right, we're gonna show and the watch party. I mean, that's amazing. I enjoyed the entire thing for me with the social media is it's such a visual show that it gives you an incredibly visual opportunity to display on social media, and also very different you. From what you're normally posting. And so it seems to do really well, because it's just like a very moment in time where it's like, wait a second, why are you dressed as a cat? Like, you know, it's just like, it's a it shocks kind of people in the beginning. And it's also really a lot of transition opportunity and then figuring out how to do the makeup and how to do all the different pieces. And I don't know how much validity you all did, but the like, how to learn how to move like a cat, and all that stuff that comes with it is just built for current social media, where our attention spans are very short, and you can have a very quick visual burst of like, wow, saw that, and then you flip to the next video. So I loved it, and I loved seeing it the whole thing. I mean, there was I that just the two of you and the three of you, but a lot of your cast mates. It just popped up all over my feed for a while. So yeah, I hope you keep some of the footage, though, my vice is, is to, like, six months a year from now, just like, throw something back up as, like a reminder, and it will do well, I promise. Because it's a a it's like a little flashback to when you know again, it's it's a stark difference. Let's do some rapid fire. A couple quick questions on here from all of you, and then we'll get to the million dollar question. So the first one is, if you could go on for one night only, any cat, whether you could sing it, dance it, perform it, just, I really want to do that track for one night. Who do you want to go on as

[36:23] Speaker 4: I want to be misto. That's who I want to be. Again. I'm way too tall to be misto. Um,

[36:29] Speaker 3: but I love the magic. I love making things, you know, pop out of nowhere. And who doesn't love a light up jacket? That's where I want to land just for one night. Mine would be Rum Tum for sure. Yeah, the songs, the songs so good, and the riffing that you can do so good, and also just the fact that he can just, like, chill on stage, like fully, just not caring at all in whatever position, just relax, just kind of chill in there that sounds really nice

[37:02] Speaker 5: from me strap. I was like, during the rehearsals, I would have like Marat, who played Manka strap, like, teach me how to do the poem,

[37:15] Speaker 5: love, like, the songs that he did and like, if I could have like, like Marat, like flipping ability to do like I would be. I'd be a happy person. I think love

[37:24] Mike Abrams: it. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats? Character wise, like personality wise, personality

[37:30] Speaker 4: wise, my favorite cat personality wise? Oh, I didn't process this one yet. Hold on. Let's say, um, I think my favorite cat, personality wise, is probably bomb, which is probably an unconventional pick, but I just like the strengths and I like the confidence that she has. And my least favorite cat is, again, an unconventional pick, but Jenny kind of annoys me. It's like there's a lot going on there, and sometimes, you know, I think she tries too hard, and that's always not something that I love. Now I'm I teach tap here. I love it, and I love a good tap dance. And I love that you can teach them cockroaches out of tap but I think the I'm a little turned off by people who try too hard in life. So that's my choice there.

[38:29] Speaker 3: Um, my, I'll go off of Miley's favorite, because I was going back and forth between Jenny and skimball. Those were they kind of give like similar vibes to me. Um, they're just kind of, I find them somewhat annoying. Oh, those would be my least favorite. My favorite is definitely old dude, for sure. I love old dude around. I think he's iconic. Um, okay,

[38:54] Speaker 5: my least favorite, like, I hate best of her, like, he just shows up and then leave and don't care. Like, I think I just kind of let that, like, really show in the number two. But I think my favorite, I like monkeys drop like, I just think he's, like, a solid guy, you know, he's just wants to protect the tribe, good next in line, like, for old dude. Like, yeah, just, just an all around good guy. What's not to love? I love it. Well,

[39:21] Mike Abrams: if you ever go on Royal Caribbean cruise, they cut bus at first, so you don't even have to deal with them. Production. Favorite song in the show, okay?

[39:30] Speaker 4: Favorite song to do was always my cavity. Like that was my favorite every time that song came on. I loved it. I let it rip every night. That was my favorite song to do. But what I caught myself singing in the shower, still to this day, is always gimbal shanks. It's just catchy, right? Like when they start running for those train pieces and the it's it's catchy. You can't get it out of your head. I love it. That's

[39:56] Speaker 3: so funny. I hate that song. It's. Um, I would say that my my favorite like I also love my cavity, and I love that style and singing that style, um, but oddly, a dressing of cats became my favorite song, which is super weird for everyone. I don't know why, just the harmonies, and I think the stillness of it too, after like, all the chaos, I just think it's a good way to end it. So I always, I always really loved dressing, um, for me,

[40:30] Speaker 5: I love Macavity, like, even, like, just doing it with Cameron, like, like, I just loved, like, the dynamic we had and like, I honestly couldn't, like, have asked for like, a better person to, like, do it with, um, it's just such a good song. Like, it really put me out of, like, my comfort zone, too. So like, I think that that will also, like, hold, like, a really special place in my heart for it. Um, aside from that one, I like Rum Tum. It's just like, that's a good one. My mom's saying that all the time, like, when I was doing it, like, she'd be like, let's put it on. Like, let's watch it. I'm like, but yeah, no, I love brown Tums.

[41:05] Mike Abrams: I love them all. All great answers. I do think the cavity is probably the one I skew to the most. I was fun to hear when I heard that it was going to be Bob and Demeter joining us today. I love to ask a fun one. So my fun question for you all is, since you all are in Ontario, which cat do you think is the most Canadian?

[41:26] Speaker 4: Ooh, who's the nicest? The most Canadian? That's a tricky question. Okay, none of them like to play hockey. There's no cats that play hockey.

[41:39] Speaker 3: For some reason I'm leaning towards, I don't know why I'm leaning towards skimble. Okay, skimball was my first choice. We all picked skimble. Yeah, to be a real too. Yeah. You know, train, it's the train, it's the it's the energy, yeah, I don't know. Just always serving, you know, skimble is what came to mind? First,

[42:00] Speaker 4: we do have a solid train system here in Canada too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's more on time than Amtrak. So,

[42:11] Mike Abrams: a lot of time thinking about this, and I could not come on a consensus myself. I was I went the same route, because I do, I play hockey still, and so I recently posted how I would make my lineup for a hockey team with cats. But there's none that were like, Oh, they're they're ready. It's probably like, tumble Brutus, you know, it's probably the one playing hockey. But I do think I do like skim bowl. That is a very good, solid answer. Part of me thought maybe bustafer Just a little ways of like, kind of in his own world, and doesn't seem to, like anger anybody, or it's like he's there. So that was kind of where I'm like, I could see that, but I didn't have

[42:49] Speaker 4: my second choice. West of her would have been my second choice, because, again, yeah, he just kind of shows up. People take him or leave him. You know, he doesn't cause any disruptions. He just moves on with his life. He's too fancy, though

[43:05] Mike Abrams: fair, very fair. Okay, we're here to the million dollar question. I want to hear from you all, if you're making your Jellicle choice, not the show, not what you were told, not what you were directed, but if you get to pick your own Jellicle choice, who are you picking and why?

[43:20] Speaker 4: So I am picking, okay, when I first did the show, 100% I'm picking Cassandra because nobody really wants her there anyway. She doesn't feel like she needs to put on a show. She is who she is. She's like, take it or leave it. This is what I got for you. You know, nobody would be hurt if she pieced off to the heavy side layer. Nobody would really miss her. Nobody would really do what's going on. So I think probably time to get rid of her from a, you know, a perspective, but directing the show, I know you're not going to like it, but after I kind of dove in with my wild story with Grizz, I do think I can defend Grizz as the angelical choice, pretty good with just the way that I we kind of went with her character in the show. So

[44:06] Mike Abrams: I can defend Grizz. But what are you? What am I putting your your mark down as? Are you? Am I putting you down for Cassandra or for grizzabella?

[44:13] Speaker 4: Hmm, let's go old school. Let's put me down as Cassandra, because I feel like that's really the true essence of my being, you know, and like, I really only dove into this grid story just to kind of make it make sense.

[44:24] Mike Abrams: So agreed, I don't think, like, we can make it make sense. It's a redemption arc. Like, of course, it's there. It's been doing 45 years of this show. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but I'm gonna put you down for Cassandra, because I like the non grisbel vote to go towards the the poll.

[44:38] Speaker 3: There you go. I just doing the show rose Bella made sense to me. And I was like, Oh, that makes sense. And it's also the only like, really through storyline, that's universal truth. So I never really questioned it, until I listened to your podcast, and I was like, Oh, I've never thought about that. Then I was thinking about it, and I was like. How iconic would it be if just Old Deuteronomy was, like, peace out, like, actually, it's my time to go, because he's dealt with too much stuff. He's dealt with too many people. Monkey strap is already there, second in line to be old dude. It works out. Um, I think, I don't know. I think that'd be a pretty iconic ending if he just chose himself to go to the heavy side layer, real power move, kind of like Yoda goes, gotta go. He's gotta go sometime. Yeah, exactly. So I think he should choose when that happened. I think my vote,

[45:35] Speaker 5: I'm going with bomb. I just think, like, here for a good time, not a long time, like she, she's had her fun. And I think that, like, like, She's had enough of these people. I think, like, I can't do it

[45:54] Speaker 4: Gus still has too many stories to share. He's not ready to go yet. I'm, I

[45:58] Mike Abrams: mean, I No no follow up questions now that I have three nine Grizzle votes. So after this as a win, and we will call it a day. How can people stay in touch with you on social media and track back to all the fun stuff you posted and see everything that you're gonna do in your future? Well,

[46:16] Speaker 4: you can follow us on Instagram, the Sinclair college music theater performance program. It's at SCC performing arts. And then these two will be posting more cats, Tiktok, I'm sure I've got

[46:30] Speaker 5: a few in the drops still. Yeah, I do too. I'm on Instagram and Tiktok. Just my name, Cameron winicki Lewis, that's my handle. Yeah, same for me with Instagram, it's like, first and last name, um, I can't remember what my Tiktok user, I think it's just like, Tate and then like, um, with like, three M's. I think that's it, yeah, just my interpretation of my name, my first name. Yeah, we'll

[46:55] Mike Abrams: link everything so make it all easy to try to spell it or find it. Well, this has been so fun to hear your experience doing it, and I'm glad that we've turned some cats haters and the cats lovers, and hopefully more people will get to get to learn from your experience and become cats lovers as well. And maybe you get to do it again

[47:19] Speaker 4: There's rumors of more productions popping up in Ontario. So we're hoping, we're hoping we get to experience it again. Amazing.

[47:27] Mike Abrams: Well, thank you all for being here. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died. The podcast, break down the cat. Sash feed. Follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or any assistance podcast, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok and threads of the wrong cat died. Or check our website. Diet, or check our website, drunk@diet.com