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[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. We are working with the Perelman Performing Arts Center reimagined production of CATS called CATS: The Jellicle Ball to bring you a series of episodes during the run. I am honored to have Jonathan Burke with me here today. You might have seen Jonathan as Mungojerrie on the US National Tour 5 of CATS in 2008, and you will love seeing the reimagined Mungojerrie in this production. So welcome, Jonathan. Thank you for joining me.

[0:44] Jonathan Burke: Thank you for having me.

[0:46] Mike Abrams: I'm excited to have you because I was looking through when the first cast announcements came out thinking that there was going to be, you know, obviously a mix of ballroom and a mix of theater people into this production. And I think you were the only one, or at least the only one that I saw that had done a tour or done a production of CATS that we knew before this reimagined version. So I actually want to start there with having that experience, having been Mungojerrie in 2008 in cities all across the country, and I think probably even more. What was that experience for you like having that knowledge firsthand and coming into this kind of new version of CATS?

[1:28] Jonathan Burke: It was actually amazing. I was glad to have come in with the knowing of all the things that I learned when I was on the tour because a lot of that helped inform the choices that we made in this production. And I was able to share some of, you know, my CATS knowledge with the team and the cast so that we could kind of, you know, pay homage to those moments and also look at it in a new way. And it's funny because even a lot of the moments that we talk about within our production are similar to the motivations and moments behind a lot of the moments in the original production that I think were even unbeknownst to the team or the cast. But when they were just aligned in ways, it was like, that actually is the same intent like that we had.

And they were like, oh, really? Okay. So there's something to be said about, I guess it's in the writing or something that makes certain themes and ideas just pop out that worked beautifully with this reimagined version. So it's amazing to come back to this show in this new way. It really was honestly the only way that I was going to return to doing CATS.

[2:38] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So let's start back in 2008 though. Like was this a, I mean, where was this in the scheme of like, it's kind of a bizarre show and you're going on a tour that's at that point been around for a couple of years. So it's kind of a, it's been going around the country. But what was your interpretation of like the plot and Mungojerrie and this idea of CATS back then, you know, years ago when you first were cast in it?

[3:02] Jonathan Burke: Well, I was obsessed with CATS since I was in middle school. Since my music teacher at Cardinal Sheen School, Kenyatta Hardison, shout out to her. She's the inspiration for me for the arts. She's the person who introduced me to theater and told me I could do this as a career, honestly. So I thank her. And she showed us that VHS of CATS and I was obsessed. So I just used to watch it all the time and I was just enamored by the whole thing. So it was kind of amazing that the first thing I did after graduating Ithaca College, I actually auditioned during my senior year when I was here in New York, doing something called, where we do field studies and we do meetings with agents and all this stuff.

And I auditioned for the tour then and I got cast then on my way back to Ithaca. I got a phone call in the car saying that I booked it. So I had a job upon graduating in this show that I was like obsessed with. And it was phenomenal. It was a wonderful training ground for a young artist to go on tour. I think it's amazing for people, especially who are very young and starting on their careers to do that. So it was great. I mean, I loved the use of the body, the way that we just got to embody these creatures that I'm very heavily actor based. And we did a lot of that in drama school. Like, what animal are you? I got to put that to use in being a cat. And I learned a lot about cats. I really actually am allergic to cats.

And I never was a fan of cats, the actual cats. Until doing this show, it really made me grow an appreciation for them because they're so smart and their characters and personality are so vivid. I really do appreciate cats now in a whole new way. So yeah, and Mungojerrie is just so much fun. I mean, I love that number and just to be like a little troublemaker causing trouble. It's a good time.

[5:10] Mike Abrams: It's got to be kind of a fun first job, too, because it's not a show where there's this like very set you've got to do exactly. I mean, you have your dance and choreography, but there's a lot of interpretation and open endedness into the characters and the backstories and who you can kind of play a little bit different with it each day. So as a first time kind of job at a school, it's got to give you some freedom and fun to kind of learn your craft in a way that's not, you know, some other shows it's like this character has to be exactly like this at all times and do this and you get a little bit more freedom, especially as Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer, you two are like expected to kind of like cause some mischief.

[5:49] Jonathan Burke: Yes, that's really fun. So now I want to pivot from that. So you obviously have this amazing time doing this and then you have your multiple year career until then. What was your first thought when you heard Reimagine CATS? I was so curious. I was really intrigued. I was talking with Jalen Levingston, who was one of our co-directors, who is a friend of mine for many years and who directed me in a play as well two summers ago. And he was telling me about this idea two summers ago of CATS and as a ballroom theme. And I was like, wow, that is fascinating. I never thought of that. But then when he said it, it actually immediately made sense to me with the idea of categories and people competing to win grand prize, people in each category showing off their skills.

I was like, this is actually directly in alignment with basically the plot of CATS in a lot of ways. And just thinking of the movement vocabulary of ballroom, the femininity, which also equates to felinity in a lot of ways, I thought that it would be really brilliant. And I was like, I think I need to be in the room for this when this happens. I think this is something that I need to explore, or at least I definitely need to see it. If I'm not in it, I need to know how this is going to turn out.

[7:20] Mike Abrams: Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I had the exact same thought because it's been two years since I talked to Bill when I think the first main news when the casting reading call came out and everyone's like, drag or Deuteronomy, that went on social media and kind of caused a stir. And it was before the PAC wasn't even open at that point. The center was still very under construction. And I had the exact same thought as you, which is ballroom. That is a perfect vehicle for the storyline. Because I always thought it was a singing competition to begin with, singing and dancing competition, X Factor on drugs with cats. And so it is such a clever way to tell a story. And I think that's why it's resonating so well with the audiences is it's actually enhancing.

Maybe I don't know. I don't want to say the stage musical is still amazing. It's got this 45-year history, but it's making almost the poetry a little clearer in a storyline that some people don't pick up on the first time you see it in the other productions, because there's so much other stuff happening there, the cat's costume and the junkyard is very elaborate and there's a lot going on. And if you're not familiar with the characters, it takes some time. Whereas even if you're not familiar, there's the ballroom kind of piece brings it into a scene that maybe you better understand. And I've always thought that was a really clever idea. And then the execution has been unbelievable.

[8:47] Jonathan Burke: Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it's so many people that I speak to after the show speak to exactly what you're talking about in that they're like, I understand CATS more than I ever did before. I really get it now. And I think it's just because you really see the humanity of these people, these cats, quote unquote, but now through the lens of human beings makes people able to connect to it even more than they ever did before. But I mean, all those things, honestly, for me already, I made those connections when I did CATS. I connected it to humanity already. So it always made sense to me. I don't know if I'm an anomaly or not, but the story was very clear to me. And the way that each character goes about trying to win, like it all was pretty clear to me and I'm like, oh, I get this in relation to me as a person, Jonathan, as well, but we're just seeing it then through the lens of an animal through a cat.

[9:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So when you were obviously doing Mungojerrie again, you know, you're back in the same role. What is, is there differences or what kind of differences are you feeling between the characters from 2008 to now?

[10:07] Jonathan Burke: Yes, it's actually so fun to revisit a character. I actually have never done that before. This is the first time I'm doing a character again, usually because I love to create new things. I, once I've done it once, I feel like I've done that. Now let me move on, you know, to something else and tackle something else. I actually was asked to audition for the revival in 2016 to play Mungojerrie, of course, because I'm sure they knew that I did the tour. And I turned it down because I, one, like I said, don't really want to repeat roles, but two, more importantly, at that time in my career, I was trying to transition out of dancing a lot. I started my career, as we all now know, in CATS dancing, which led to me doing a lot of dancing in New York and a lot of shows in which I was dancing in the ensemble.

And I really always wanted to act and to be really the lead principal role in shows. And I found that I was starting to get into a certain box and I wanted to show that I could do other things. So I said no, and I went on to do all the things that I wanted to do, which was to be in plays on Broadway and The Inheritance and Choir Boy and be on a TV show called Harlem and all these things. And I have not danced in a long time. I have not danced in a musical in, I don't even know, like over five years. I don't even, I can't think of the last time I really danced. So this was the only way that I would return to CATS, with this new, new version that says something deeper, that really was a reflection of what I actually am about in my art, which is telling stories about Black and brown queer people, elevating those stories and sharing different perspectives.

And this was directly in alignment. And then I got to show myself to people in a new way. There are so many people that come that said, oh, I didn't know you danced. Oh my gosh, I'm gagged. Like what? I didn't know you sang.

[12:06] Jonathan Burke: Well, then I did my job. I didn't want you to know. And now you know. And now they see me in a whole new way, even though it's like the old way. But this felt like tackling something new because of this amazing concept. And so I look at it as the baseline of Mungojerrie still stands of this character that is, you know, causing trouble, drama, you know, getting into mischief, very overly confident, perhaps. But I got to now look at it through the lens of this queer, Black person that I actually identify with. So I got to bring those pieces of my humanity to this story in the way that I didn't bring to the Mungojerrie in the original version. I really more focused on, you know, his playfulness, his mischievous qualities, you know, troublemaker, he kind of wanting to model himself after Tugger in some ways, wanting to be the center of attention, you know, pull focus and things like that.

The fun and play, whereas in this version, while he absolutely still wants to be the center of attention, he gets to express his femininity a lot more. And as we say, his cuntiness. So it's a very different expression of the same baseline qualities.

[13:37] Jonathan Burke: Yeah. Yeah, it's different because it's a cat in the, you know, in the original one. So there isn't some of that other representation that you get to bring to this current version because it's just like they're just cats, you know, like they're supposed to just be cats. They are their own beings. Whereas here you are representing a human and in a scene and in a culture that is an underrepresented group and getting a spotlight on the attention. Yeah. And actually, we came up with these cool ideas about Mungojerrie in this version that I hadn't ever thought about before because we now have these characters set in houses. So we have the House of Macavity, the House of Dots and Mungojerrie. We came up with this whole idea because we're looking at what would that mean?

What house would Mungojerrie be a part of? And we had this storyline that Mungojerrie was once a part of the House of Macavity, but got kicked out of that house. And now there's an animosity between him and that house. And he created his new house with Rumpleteazer, his little sis. They're starting their own new house to try to take over. So that was a fun new take on the character as well. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. So you are in a house with Rumpleteazer. What's the house called? The House of Larceny. The House of Larceny. I love it.

[15:03] Jonathan Burke: Yeah. Now you mentioned another thing because you said sis. There's a wide debate on social media every time I post anything about Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer or some of the other characters. Are you brother and sister? Are you together? Are you best friends? Are you partners in crime? Like what is the relationship that you play in? Does it differ than from 2008? Yes. In this version, we are brother and sister in CATS: The Jellicle Ball. We have decided that that's my little sister that I've brought into the ballroom community and I'm kind of, you know, bossing her around. So she's trying to make her own little name in the scene too. But I'm really controlling the strings as well, even though she may actually have a little bit more talent than me.

That's okay. Mungojerrie believes he can do anything, which is why he walks so many categories. And he does it well, but you know, that's okay. So in this version, yes, brother and sister for sure. In the version that I did before, we looked at it more as just a duo, like not actually siblings, but we live in the same house. Like we, you know, cause trouble together. Troublemaking partners in crime. I like it.

[16:15] Jonathan Burke: Yeah. Cause it's always interesting. Cause there's like the most, um, the most recent tour that went around the U.S. they were playing it as, as like dating essentially. And so there's, there's a lot of ways cause it's not really well defined. It's just, they're a pair. And so I, you know, I did feel the brother sister vibe in your production, but I wasn't sure. Cause I've heard so many different interpretations of it. So it's fun to hear that. Um, you said you walk so many different categories. I I'm curious to hear a little bit about that aspect of the, you know, the show for you of getting to do the ballroom kind of environment and scene, but also being in so many categories and which categories you loved and enjoyed walking more or less than others.

[17:05] Jonathan Burke: Yeah. Um, okay. So I'm not a member of ballroom at all. I've been a fan of ballroom for many years. Um, so I've watched it from afar and was in awe of it and the things that the people can do, particularly in the performance elements of ballroom, the Vogue-ing that they do is just incredible. And I've always been like, Oh, I wish I could do that, but I've never taken a class. I've never put myself out there to try, but I just thought it was incredible. And I was like, I don't think I could ever do a dip. Like that looks terrifying. But then when this came up, I was like, Oh, I think, I mean, I must, I have to learn how to do a dip. I must, like in order to present this community in a real way and really pay honor to them, I have to really engulf myself in that culture.

So, you know, I learned, I learned how to Vogue. Thank you to our choreographers, Arturo Lyons and Omari Wiles, who taught a lot of us who had never Vogue before how to do that. So, and all the things about the specifics of ballroom culture within the different categories and everything. So I just wanted to make sure that I made the people in the community proud and I didn't want them to look at it like, Okay, what, what is he doing up there? Like, why did they hire him to do this? That's not real. But thankfully, so many people that have come have given me so many encouraging words that are part of ballroom, just they really thought I was a part of ballroom and they're shocked when I tell them I'm not, or they now think that I should join.

So I feel very honored by that. I'm like, I've done my job in reflecting their community in an honest and true way. But the categories are so much fun to walk. I love walking. Actually, I walk everyday realness in the Rum Tum Tugger number. And that's really fun because I get to do something called a twist, which I come out as like a construction worker, everyday like guy down the street. And it's very contrasting to my Mungojerrie character very feminine and cuntsy and like, Banji cunt is the term in ballroom Banji cunt, like, just like a mess. Like, we'll cut you out, we'll fight you, we'll steal your stuff. Well, that's Banji cunt. Um, but then I come out as this construction worker, very masculine and, and some people actually said they didn't even know it was me when I came out.

They were like, who's that that came out? Because it's so different. But then I get to like in the midst of that number twist back to the Banji cunt character. And it's really just a fun little moment, a surprise moment the audience always loves, of course, because it's just it's a surprise. And I get to show two very contrasting sides of myself, which is a lot of fun. So I love that.

[19:41] Jonathan Burke: Amazing. Yeah. And then there's the whole, you know, early on, I kept was wondering how are they going to do the Mungojerrie Rumpelteaser kind of number in walking a category? Because in the other version, you get it's one of the few times that there are just the two of you on stage, like it's not the whole set of cats together. And it was that you were walking in this and, you know, that we're getting the trophies over and over and over again. And I don't want to spoil anything, but I loved how they handled the two of you with handling the competition and the trophy because it just stayed on character and on brand so well.

[20:20] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, I think that the category we do for Mungojerrie Rumpelteaser is tag team performance, which is like perfect. It's a real category in ballroom where people compete in pairs and we are the ultimate pair. So they have us play with another couple in voguing, vogue performance. And I think that that number is one of the most brilliant meldings of musical theater and ballroom. It's so clear as what's happening in that scene and that we're doing this ballroom choreography to this musical theater song while singing. It's just everything to me. I'm obsessed with the number. I think the way that it's been directed is really brilliant and it's so much fun to perform. Like, I literally never can get tired of it.

It's hard, just as the original one. It's one of the few songs in the show, as you kind of mentioned, and as if anyone knows about the show, in which you're really singing and dancing at the same time the whole time, which is really difficult. You're the only two on the stage by yourself too, so all eyes are on you at that moment. So you can't kind of, you know, sneak a breath or two in here and hope someone else is looking the other way. It's just all eyes on you.

[21:39] Jonathan Burke: Correct. As they should be, Mungojerrie would say.

[21:45] Jonathan Burke: The other thing I'm curious to hear about, again, as someone who wasn't from the ballroom scene, was what was the experience like learning the ballroom culture and history from legends and icons themselves, like, you know, with Junior LaBeija and Amari and all these people that have such history and experience? What was that for you in the rehearsal process of getting to understand and hear directly from them?

[22:01] Jonathan Burke: I mean, it was so special. I remember walking into the workshop I did prior to this production. I did one of the workshops, and seeing Junior LaBeija, not knowing that he was going to be a part of it, and I just was gagged. I was like, this is the person that I've watched so many times on Paris is Burning, and just loved that documentary and thought it was so important to the culture. And now to sit here with him and get his perspective about the world, really, in general, but especially about ballroom, has been so special. And I think that's what makes the production great because we have this real authentic connection with these people who are steeped in the culture, and hearing their point of views really helped us shape what the story would be, and gave us ideas about, you know, things that we could input into the show. So I'm really, really glad to have them. Temporis, I mean, it's an amazing group of people melding at these worlds. It's phenomenal.

[23:51] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, it is such a mix, and you can feel that energy that comes with that, because it's not just all theater trying to put this together, or all ballroom trying to put together CATS. It's the two worlds colliding, and it put together something beautiful because of that, I think. Yeah, it's like creating, we talked about, we're actually creating something new. We're not doing ballroom as musical theater or musical theater as ballroom. We're recreating a whole new way of doing it that is like the two together, that creates a whole new vocabulary, and that is what I think is so, so cool about this production. And we each, everyone in the show who may be either from the ballroom world or from the theater world had to push ourselves into those other worlds that we really were not familiar with, and it's beautiful to see everyone give that their all, and really the growth that each person has had is amazing to see from day one to now. I mean, I pat myself on the...

[24:13] Jonathan Burke: I'm very proud, because learning the ballroom choreography at first, I remember the first day I was learning one part of the ball and the hands performance, and I just couldn't get it and I started to freak out, like, oh my God, can I not do this? Am I not going to ever be able to do this? And now, doing it effortlessly, it's great. It's been really interesting for me as someone who, like, knows, I joked when we first saw the, I think, second performance you did, the preview, and we went in, I went in with someone from the Broadway Podcast Network, Alan Seales, who, you know, has his own show, and we both, I was like, I know too much about Cats and I know very little about ballroom, and as we were kind of, like, looking around the audience, I was like, it was a really interesting and fun mix of people, because there was, obviously, the guest judges, and they were sitting kind of right by us, and I'm like, here are ballroom people who probably don't know anything about Cats, or very little about Cats, and you get into the room together and it's just like a big party, like, everyone just kind of joined in and learned, you know, picked up something new, and I actually thought that was a really fun part about that is the educational component for whatever other side that you don't know as much about, or even if you're somewhere in between the two, it's been fun talking to the cast, because I've talked to, you know, like, Silk, who's more from the ballroom scene, and I've talked to you and others who are more from the theater scene, and you're all picking up these really cool new things to bring to, like you said, your own version, like, it's not one or the other, it's you're creating something totally new, and you can feel it, and I think that's why the responses are so strong, and why everybody's loved this.

[25:51] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, I love looking out in the audience, like you speak to, and seeing how different the people are, and seeing people who are from ballroom, who probably, possibly have never gone to see a musical before, sitting next to a person who I'm sure has seen hundreds of musicals, and they're both having the same experience, and enjoying this piece of art, I mean, from older people to younger people sitting right next to each other, and still getting something out of this is really, really exciting, and I think making theater accessible to as many people as possible is always the goal, and I think this production really, really does that in an amazing way.

[26:37] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, and then also, shout out to the Pearlman Performing Arts Center, because they do discounts for under 30 in military, like, they're really trying to make it an accessible show, and it's been extended twice now, so people can hopefully come and see it, so they've done a really good job of also trying to make that as affordable and accessible as possible.

[26:55] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, I think that that is phenomenal, I mean, anyone who's listening out there, I just want to reiterate, we have this amazing ticket savings program, like you said, for 30 and under students, teachers, first responders, veterans, it's amazing prices, because the tickets are not that cheap, honestly, for the regular price tickets, so if you fall into any of those categories, go on the website, and just look for the ticket savings program, and you will get an amazing ticket for an amazing seat as well, so please, please come out.

[27:27] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, there's really no bad seat, too, it's such a cool venue, so everybody's going to see it and have an experience of the energy.

[27:35] Jonathan Burke: Before we get to the rapid fire, what's kind of like the one thing that you hope the audience takes away when they see it? Like, what would be your goal, if somebody's never seen Cats, or doesn't know Ballroom, like, what's the hope when they walk out of that theater?

[27:47] Jonathan Burke: My first thing is joy, joy of life, and ownership of self. I think the piece is so much about owning who you are, accepting who you are, being proud of who you are, being respected for who you are, and I think the addressing of Cats just says it so beautifully, and I want everyone to come away saying, basically, I deserve to be called by my name, meaning I deserve to be who I want to be in this world, and respected for that. And if people walk away getting that, as well as the joy of life, and acceptance of others, then I think we've done our job.

[28:33] Jonathan Burke: Amazing. All right, well, let's do some rapid fire, so if you could go on for any other non-Mungojerrie Cat, whether you could do it male, female, if you could just do one night as one track, who would you want to go on as?

[28:45] Jonathan Burke: Oh, oh my gosh. In this production, or in general?

[28:51] Jonathan Burke: Why don't we do both?

[28:53] Jonathan Burke: Okay, that's a good question. Okay, so in this production, I probably would want to be Skimbleshanks, I think.

[29:09] Jonathan Burke: What about in the—

[29:10] Jonathan Burke: No, actually, I would want to be Mistoffelees, I'm sorry.

[29:12] Jonathan Burke: Mistoffelees, yeah.

[29:14] Jonathan Burke: What about in 2008, who are you going on as?

[29:17] Jonathan Burke: Tugger.

[29:18] Jonathan Burke: Tugger, love it.

[29:22] Jonathan Burke: Favorite and least favorite Cat from a vibe perspective, who are you going to enjoy hanging out with, and who's going to kind of bug you?

[29:26] Jonathan Burke: Well, in this production, Mungojerrie is very much over Macavity, so Macavity is out, for sure. That's a no, and even in the regular, because Macavity's a bad guy, in the original. So Macavity vibes are out. Cillabub is also out for me. Cillabub is too sweet and like, oh, you're always a good girl. No.

[29:56] Jonathan Burke: Okay, okay. Favorite song from the show?

[30:02] Jonathan Burke: I would say to like, listen to Macavity.

[30:06] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, that's been my answer for a while now. It's just such a fun—

[30:09] Jonathan Burke: It's so jazzy. It's just so good.

[30:12] Jonathan Burke: Yeah.

[30:14] Jonathan Burke: And you said that you're the house of larceny. I've been trying to house everybody, so Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer is the house of larceny. Who else is in your house with you?

[30:23] Jonathan Burke: No, and it's the two of us right now.

[30:25] Jonathan Burke: Just the two of you.

[30:26] Jonathan Burke: So we're looking for people to join, but they got to be major in order to join, so we haven't yet found anyone on this Jellicle Ball night who can really stand up to what we need. So just us two.

[30:40] Jonathan Burke: Okay.

[30:41] Jonathan Burke: Yeah. And then, most important question is, this show centers around that I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. I think it's harder to argue in your production than it is in your 2008 production, but if you are choosing, you, Jonathan, are choosing your Jellicle choice, and I'll defer to you for either production, who are you choosing and why?

[31:02] Jonathan Burke: Yes. Oh, God. It's such a hard, hard thing. I'm torn, but I think that I would choose Gus.

[31:11] Jonathan Burke: Gus.

[31:12] Jonathan Burke: I love it. And I say that because, firstly, Gus is the oldest cat, and he's so beautiful. He lives such a fabulous life, and I think he deserves to bring back his glory in that way. And I think that Grizabella also is deserving of transformation, but I think that she, from coming to the ball, singing Memory, showing herself, revealing herself, she could, on her own, scrape herself back up from the bootstraps now that the people have accepted her and be great again. She has time left. So I think she could find her way.

[32:00] Jonathan Burke: I love it. I think the perfect argument is that she just got accepted back. Let her live her life with the family, and now everyone's in. She can be next year's choice, but I'm with you. I think in the productions that I'm more familiar with, not the new production, it's always been Gus. I don't know if I can argue that Junior's ready to go in your production, because he comes out and is just still living his best life. That's a little bit harder to argue. But I think Gus is the number two choice of the vote, so I'm glad to have another Gus tally on the tracker here.

[32:36] Jonathan Burke: Yeah. I mean, I think that Grizabella, particularly in our production, does warrant a lot more of it, because she didn't, I feel like, in our production, she didn't leave the community in a way that she did everyone wrong, or, you know, it's more that she went out to try to pursue her life as a woman in the world, and it didn't pan out for her the way that she wanted. So it's, to me, a little more heartbreaking, and she deserves it, than in the original version. It's a little different.

[33:14] Jonathan Burke: Definitely. And also, I don't want to spoil anything, but it doesn't feel as like, we're going to murder this cat in your production. It's like a little bit more of the heavyset layers, a little bit less of that, and more of like, it's not the end, like there's still more. And so that also kind of changes that dynamic a little bit.

[33:33] Jonathan Burke: But still not going to change my vote, not going to change the name of the show. But at least I have liked the Grizabella arc in this production more than I do in the normal one.

[33:44] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, yeah. It's really beautiful. It's very moving, actually, in this production, for sure. And they do some really cool things, and this one, I don't feel like I'm spoiling, but I've told people to look for it. But I love the dress coming out, and some of these other moments that really kind of bring her story through, that if you're not fully watching, because some of it happens on the sides and in the wings, but it does a good job of bringing her through that whole time versus, I think the other, the tour you were on, it's a little bit more of like, she comes out, she kind of gets shunned, she goes away. She comes out, she kind of gets shunned, kind of sings, tries to dance, goes away, and then it's like full acceptance at the end. And I didn't get as many of those moments as it was much clearer painting of that. Like, you know, you saw the old trophies, and you saw the dress, and all these different pieces to really bring that redemption arc a lot clearer.

[34:37] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, yeah, definitely. It was a lot of work on that, so thank you.

[34:41] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, I can only imagine, I mean, all the different things that you all work through to really, again, to mesh the two worlds together, because it does feel like it's clean, but and then there's so many moments and elements that are different that you have to try to figure out with some of the tweaks you all made. But it's, again, everyone's loving it, and everyone needs to go see it, and we'll link how to get tickets and everything, and how can people stay in touch with you?

[35:06] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram at itsJonathanBurke, I-T-S-J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N-B-U-R-K-E, or on Twitter, formerly known as Twitter, now X. Still call it Twitter. As itsJonathanBurke, yeah, I-T-S-J-O-N-B-U-R-K-E. Or Facebook, just my name, Jonathan Burke, and follow me around. I'm always doing something, so check me out.

[35:34] Jonathan Burke: Yeah, we'll link in everything and tag everything, and people can stay up to date through the rest of this production, and then whatever's next for you.

[35:41] Jonathan Burke: Yes, indeed. Well, thank you for coming on, and again, this is running through August 11th now, second extension, so run to the PAC to see it, and it was great having you on.

[35:52] Jonathan Burke: Thank you. Great to be here.

[35:54] Jonathan Burke: All right. Thank you, and thanks, everyone else, for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Cats Hatchfield. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any of us on the podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads at TheWrongCatDied, or check our website, thewrongcatdied.com.