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[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catsatrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams. I am very excited about today's guest. A few weeks ago, I had the privilege of going to Aurora, Illinois, to see Paramount's production of CATS, which many of you on the internet have been raving about and calling Circus Cats. I had the most fun time watching. I'm excited to have a few members of the cast and creative team here today. So welcome Director Trent Stork, Circus Choreographer Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi, and Munkustrap Jake DiMaggio Lopez. And thank you all for joining me.

[0:48] Trent Stork: Thanks for having us. Circus Cats are go.

[0:48] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: So happy to be here. Circus Cats. I loved Circus Cats. And Circus Cats, you are having a moment on the internet. So I normally ask about CATS history and everything, but I know we have a shorter time today. I want to go right into the production. So I want to hear, how did you come up with the idea to do Circus Cats? Because there's been a few tent productions, but I don't think I've seen a version that's had the circus acrobatic type of pieces weaved into the story like you all did.

[1:10] Trent Stork: Yeah. So 10 years ago, I was the Associate Director of CATS when we did it the first time at Paramount. And as we were working on it, I thought, oh my gosh, wouldn't it be so amazing if Victoria ascended to the Jellicle ball in a moonbeam of silks? And by the time we had gotten around to it, the budget was already set. The director really wasn't interested. And I was like, well, okay, if I ever get my chance to do CATS, isn't that a cool idea? And so then from there, like the idea just kind of kept developing in my head over the last 10 years. And then I was like, well, what's a Jellicle cat? Well, what if a Jellicle cat was actually a magic cat that's in tune with magic? They live their nine lives.

And what if their nine lives was a way to reach enlightenment, right? So then what do they need in order to make the Jellicle choice? Well, they need the moon. They also need Old Deuteronomy to be there. And then I think they need the audience. They need the audience's vibe, their attention, their energy going towards us, channeled through Old Deuteronomy into the Jellicle moon in order to make the Jellicle choice. And so all of that kind of started to develop and kind of play around in my head. And then I was like, I think that's a really cool idea. And the fact that it becomes like an entertainment, right? CATS has always been an entertainment. And so they're entertaining the audience in order to get their magic channels juiced up to the moon in order to make the Jellicle choice, which they can only do once a year. And it's only once a year that they're able to get reincarnated, right? And every Jellicle's goal is to be reincarnated nine times on their path toward enlightenment.

[2:55] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So I mean, again, it's brilliant. It fits the story so well. Sylvia, I want to hear a little bit from you. You've said you've worked in circus before. That was what you told me before we started recording. What was your reaction when you got kind of this call and it was like, hey, we're going to do CATS, but we want to add these elements to it? Was it something that was like, did you know CATS well enough to be like, hey, that fits perfectly? Or was it much more of a, all right, this is my wheelhouse of circus. I'm ready to bring this to life.

[3:09] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Well, I'm always hesitant to say this, but I had not seen CATS before. I had very, very little information. I did try to watch the movie, which maybe wasn't my cast movie.

[3:25] Mike Abrams: Which movie? The newest one or the VH?

[3:32] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Okay, newest one. Yeah, that's a different CATS. It was hard. And then I, mostly what I learned was just being in a room with Trent, who is so like specific about every CATS and every vision that he had, which was amazing because it just makes my life, my job so easy to know what the director wants. Cause sometimes the director will be like, well, it could be this, or it could be that. It could be this. And I'm like, don't give me choices. Give me vision. So I learned honestly, embarrassingly when Trent did his presentation at the first rehearsal, I was like, oh, I get it. But circus, you know, CATS are very acrobatic anyway in the real world. And I just, it, to me, it seemed to make sense in a way that could be really fun because it doesn't have to be like so specific.

You know, it has to be like every character needs to move specifically like a cat. They have to have paws so we can't hold onto anything. It was just really open and really fun. And yeah, possibilities were endless.

[4:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And having Trent really know what he was looking for was really helpful because the possibility, we have so much material left for next time too. But yeah, so I'm embarrassed to say I didn't really know what was happening until that first rehearsal, which is actually a little bit of my MO. I want too much information. I want to be surprised.

[5:00] Trent Stork: Most people don't know what's happening in CATS. That's totally fine. How did you decide which characters were going to have circus elements versus not? Did you think about like this backstory fits for it better than this backstory? Or was it much more based on casting and, you know, who you were able to get as performers?

[5:27] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Some of them, like we always knew that Gumby, you know, Jenny Antidote's the Gumby cat. That sounds like a contortionist to me. So that was a quick entry. And then I knew that Mungojerry Rumpelteaser wanted to be some sort of duo act. And I actually went to Sylvia and I was like, I've always imagined that they do a trampoline act and they jump onto the set, you know, Mungojerry Bounce Rumpelteaser. And Sylvia's like, you don't want to do trampoline. That's how people get really hurt. So what if we did duo straps instead? And I was like, well, what's that, Sylvia? And she was like, oh, hey, check this out. And then Sylvia said, too, we could do a, oh, I also know this couple that is a duo trapeze act. They do this act all over the world. And I was like, oh my gosh, did you know, Sylvia, that there are twin cats named Corcopat and Tantamile that are always in sync doing something? So we were like, well, we got to get them. That's perfect.

[6:27] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it is. The minute I heard about it, I started thinking, okay, where would I put like things? Because you mentioned Victoria. I thought Celebub has opportunities with that cast and storyline. There's so much. But Jake, I know that you've done a lot of Paramount productions, but you got to learn some stuff, too, because I heard as Monkistrap, you come in, you've got a whole whip number that you had to go into. So how has this process differed or been kind of a unique piece as someone who's done a lot of Paramount shows in the past and doing cats?

[6:59] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: It's unlike anything I have ever done. It was just, you know, we came in and Trent's like, hey, we're going to try a lot of stuff. We'll see how it goes, but it's going to be really cool. And they started off with just like, yeah, you're going to have a bullet to start the show. I was like, perfect. So I think it's been a lot of that for everybody. It's just that we have this big idea and we're going to try a bunch of different things. And if it doesn't work, then fine. But if it does, it's going to be awesome. And it's just been so great to build these skills and learn all these new things. And honestly, it's an easy job at times acting on stage because I'm watching these incredible artists do these incredible feats in the air. And it's just awesome.

[7:46] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Yeah, it was so good. So I was going to say one of the great things about this process was the cast's willingness to jump in. Like Trent said, there are these two trapeze artists, they do trapeze all over the world, but then they're also going on straps and they're also going on silks and everybody's doing a little bit of everything. And even the non-circus cats were, you know, willing to jump up and throw one of the cats up in the air and catch them across the other side of the stage. And no one ever said, I don't think so. So everybody was game and it just made a world of difference. And everybody integrated in a way that it doesn't look like, oh, those are the circus cats and these are the cat's cats. Everybody is just super integrated, which is really exciting as a circus choreographer to be able to pull from a little bit from everyone.

[8:43] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And I did notice too, it's like, as I was saying before we started recording, I know the show, not from a choreography standpoint or from anything else, but I know exactly when these things are going to happen because I know the plot and I know the characters really well. And I was waiting and I noticed too, I'm like, oh, everyone's in the ball still. Even the people that have been doing aerial and acrobatic stuff are also now dancing and singing and doing all these things. So it was cool to see kind of everyone kind of pull together because that's the story. It's like, it's a family. They're all together. I have to ask one question though, that I spent a lot of time and probably way too much time and I have a lot of opinions and thoughts on this, but when I opened the playbill and I had a couple people send me this ahead of time, you all put the family tree in and I have joked that I've been trying to figure out the family tree, but I can't get consensus on a lot of different things. So can you walk me through how you decided this family tree and then also use that as a way to show who was playing what role?

[9:44] Trent Stork: Yeah, sure thing. So that's, I think it's always best when you have a cast, especially an ensemble cast, that you have everyone's relationships defined in some way. It helps people know like, oh, Macavity's scared. Who do I run to? You know, rather than it just being 32 general cats that are doing cat stuff that we have, that we form a family and we form relationships and we have, you know, sisters and brothers that are closer to us than our cousins. And I mean, like, as you know, you probably know, like in Cats lore, like Munkestrap, Rum Tum Tugger and Macavity have always kind of been brothers, right? And Macavity has always been like the younger brother who was scorned and was trying to reach out and Rum Tum Tugger became a rock star because he's the middle child, right?

And Munkestrap is the oldest, most responsible of the three cats. So that's always kind of been like Cats lore, along with Bomb Ballerina and Demeter. And then with Bomb Ballerina and Demeter, I kind of thought like, well, you know, why do they sing? It's 5A entry of Grizabella. You know, why do they sing that song? And why are they saying these things about her? And I don't know that, you know, just being the meanest of cats is deep enough, but I said, what if they were her daughters? And what if it was, since Grizabella is no longer part of this family and part of this circus, it's her leaving that has really hurt the circus and it's hurt her daughter. She's abandoned her daughters as well as the rest of this circus and this family.

So that song comes out of a place of hurt and a place of longing to have their mother back, who's there literally watching, falling into a delirium in front of their eyes. And then making Jelly Lorem, kind of one of the older cats, she gets a lot of solos. So if she and Grizabella were sisters, that made a lot of sense to me. That would give Jelly Lorem a lot of protector energy. She's kind of like HR in our circus. She's like the mama cat that she takes care of everybody. And she's kind of one of the nicest of cats. So naturally, her son and daughter would be Skimbleshanks and Sillabub. So as we started just kind of like taking bits of the text that showed us who the cats were, why does Sillabub have a connection to Grizabella?

Well, she must be kind of young and one of the newest Jellicle choices. And she sings in memory. So there must be some sort of soul connection between Grizabella and Sillabub. She's the one that touches Grizabella first. She's one of the nicest of cats. So that kind of made that family of Jelly Lorem, Skimbleshanks, and Sillabub start to make sense, yeah. And Grizabella.

[12:21] Mike Abrams: I did notice one thing is Old Deuteronomy is kind of the father of everybody, which I do agree with completely. But in this thing I'm looking at right here, I've got second wife, I've got third wife, I've got ninth wife, I got fourth wife. There's no first wife. Who's first wife? Wouldn't it be mysterious if that was the first wife and they lived in... Actually, in my lore, he was married to his first wife for the longest. And they lived in this bliss forever on this magical cat island. And they just never had children. He was like, they were young and they were traveling the world and they were starting the circus and they were doing all those things and they never got around.

[12:55] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: So Jake, my question for you is like, how familiar were you with this? And like, how did this help kind of really understand a pretty ambiguous story otherwise? You know, it helped a lot. I had seen the tour that came through Chicago a couple years ago in the more traditional junkyard style. And I could recognize like the big names like Tugger and Grizabella and Mr. Mistoffelees, but I didn't... One, I would lose track of who's who. And I really just wanted to try to understand like the hierarchy of the cats and who had more like power and who was kind of controlling the show. So when we got into rehearsals and started talking about the family tree, not only did that make the show make more sense to me, but it fleshed out the relationships of everybody.

I mean, we all look to old Deuteronomy as soon as he enters into the show, and that guides us. And then my relationship with Tugger throughout the show as a brother has opened up and we get to, we play around. And like when other things are going on, we're just like messing around like two brother cats would in the corner, like fighting or doing fun little stuff. And having Macavity as the third brother has that drama. And there's like, it's family drama. Everybody loves family drama. And so I think it adds to that as well as it made everything that we did more special in the sense that we're helping each other and it's our family that travels around and does the show every night. And so it's not, besides the fact that we're a troop, it's like we're a family and we like, all right, it's time everybody, the young ones got to learn. We're the experienced older cousins and brothers. And I think that just made it easier for me to connect to the show as well as everyone else on stage.

[15:49] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: Yeah. It also gave us a really nice place to jump off for the costumes too. So it wasn't just like a bunch of, you know, kind of generic gray and brown cats that like, if you'll notice, we actually sit in the family tree in Old Deuteronomy and you can see that all the spotted cats are together, all the chevron cats are together, all the striped cats are together. So it kind of gave our amazing costume designer, Izumi Inaba, a place to kind of jump off for the costumes as well.

[16:20] Mike Abrams: Okay. I want to ask a couple, before we get to the rapid fire and the most important question of this podcast, I want to ask a couple specific questions about two things that I said. I hope this isn't spoilers. I've always joked, you can't spoil a show that's been around for 40 plus years. But you all have some different elements. So I have two things that I would be remiss not to ask about. So the one is, what happens to Macavity at the end of Macavity's number?

[16:46] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: Yes. So on our version, Macavity is attacked by all the kitties. We see in the mini fight earlier that are kind of like strongest kitties, Bombayurina, Demeter, MonkaStrap and RumtumTugger. They try to get control of him and they fail. And then in the big Macavity fight, they try again and he just wrecks them. So it takes all of the kitties, all of the cats to really kind of dog pile on her, or cat pile on him, trap him in the light-up lyre and they send him out of the tent just to get rid of him. But because he's struggling, he falls and he actually does, he has permadeath in our production. Macavity dies.

[17:24] Mike Abrams: Okay. So that's my question. You all kill two cats.

[17:30] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: We kill two cats. Yep. One gets to ascend and be reincarnated into a new jellicle life and the other one, because he's mean and tried to fight all the cats, was permadeath. And you don't get to ascend to reincarnation. You don't get to go on to your next jellicle life because you're mean. And so Jake, brother's gone. You just killed your brother.

[17:48] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: Yeah, it's intense. It's one of those like, we tried to save him and we wish we could bring him back into the family, but he's too far gone.

[18:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah. We all have that one family member. Yeah. That is going to be one of my questions here in a second, which is that family member is going to be for you. But I wanted to ask a little bit about how you decided to make the Grizabella exit. And then I believe the interpretation is this is the new reincarnated version of Grizabella coming back. Again, without spoiling too much, can you walk me through a little bit about that? Because I've always liked the premise of this show sparks around the fact that I don't like the idea that Grizabella is just murdered at the end. Right. And so the fact that she is able to go and then start a younger version of still Grizabella to come back with her family is a very different, again, way versus the Grizabella just leaving and then the dressing of cats starts and then the show ends.

[19:36] Trent Stork: Yeah. I mean, Jake's got the lines that we make the jellicle choice and then they get to come back to a different jellicle life, right? The promise of a new life of reincarnation is all the way through the show. So I thought it was important that we see that, that we see somebody that gets a redemption arc and we actually get to see a bit of the completion of that arc in our show.

[19:57] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I don't want to spoil it for everyone that gets to go and maybe we can drop video of it after your production ends. Because I think the way y'all did it was really cool and super fascinating and fun to watch. And then for me, as the like, again, thinking about this purely from a storytelling lens, the minute the reincarnation happens, I was like, oh, this is great. Like this kind of is part of the like, bring her back to her family and let her start to be reaccepted.

[20:31] Mike Abrams: So, okay, let's do some rapid fire though, because I know we're limited on time and I want to ask some of the questions I ask everybody. So for all of you, if you could go on for one night and play one cat only, whether male, female, you could do it, couldn't do it, vocal range or not, who do you want to go on as?

[20:50] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: Robin Tugger.

[20:55] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Tugger. Love it. Yeah. You'd be a great Tugger. I mean, in my soul, I am Skimbleshanks. Okay. That's who I am.

[21:06] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Probably Demeter. I love getting the sisters, the macabre number in the show is so good.

[21:17] Mike Abrams: Great. Okay. So you kind of alluded to this, but we've all got that one family member. So who are your favorite and least favorite cats from personality standpoint? Like who do you want to hang out with? And who's that family member that's driving you crazy?

[21:30] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: I love this question. I want to hang out with Exotica. She's cool AF. And probably, I mean, like, I love the actor who plays Victoria, but Victoria is just so young. You know, she's so sweet. She doesn't know too much yet. I think that'd be kind of feel like I'd be a babysitting.

[21:49] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: I want to hang out with Jenny Endinox because she looks like so much fun. And who drives me crazy? Oh, my. Is that the other question? Who drives you crazy? Oh, come back to me on that one. That's our one. I love them all.

[21:57] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: I know I would want to hang out with Jettly Lorem, because she is so cool. And she keeps everything controlled and on pace and keeps the show running. And the cat that you know, I think that pisses me off is actually both Mungojerri and Rumpleteazer because I feel like they love to just hide our stuff and make it as hard and difficult as it can be for us, because they just love seeing a little kitty struggle.

[22:31] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: We just like to be little chaos kitties.

[22:35] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay, favorite song in the show?

[22:39] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: Honestly, my favorite song is probably number five, the big number five A in the score, Entry of Grizabella. It's so haunting and beautiful. It's the one that Bombay Green and Demeter sing with Grizabella. I love that song. Such a little blip in the show, but it could go on for 10 minutes and I'd be happy.

[22:55] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Skimbleshanks. I never not smile. I never not smile during that number. And I'm always like, oh, wait till you see this number. I drive everybody crazy that's sitting next to me. So nerdy about Skimbleshanks.

[23:11] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: Jellicle songs for Jellicle cats, kicking off the show in just the most electric way. And it's the introduction into our circus family. And you get to see every little pop out. And that's when you get to see all of the big circus elements in full for the first time. And come on, it rocks.

[23:31] Mike Abrams: It does. Okay. Because we have to get this question in. I've argued at length, I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. Now, you all kind of changed the way that works a little bit. But I want to hear who's your Jellicle choice and why.

[23:46] Trent Stork: Mine would be Gus, because Gus is a version of me. Because I'm always saying, well, this is what happened when I was in the circus. And the kids aren't what they used to be, and they don't work that hard. And that is totally me. So Gus, you got it.

[24:03] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: Um, I do think Grizabella is the right choice, especially, yeah, from an emotional standpoint, but also in our version of cats. She was our starring act. And Old Deuteronomy also has a business to run and times as hard. So we need that act back.

[24:18] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Okay. You know, I also wanted to say Gus, because I feel like Gus is her anymore. But I can't deny Old Deuteronomy's wisdom. I think Grizabella is the right choice. It's meant to be.

[24:34] Mike Abrams: Okay. Yeah, I usually would argue with you at length on this whole thing. But to your point, Trent, the fact that you're bringing your star back is like, my whole thing has been, she's being reaccepted into our family. Why are you making her go? Like, let her spend time with her family. But you are giving that opportunity. I did notice, though, is Gus not on the stage when Grizabella is going up? Because I was looking for Gus, because Gus is the most common non-Grizabella answer. And I'm like, where's Gus? Because Gus sometimes usually ushers Grizabella up. I was like, Gus isn't there. Or Gus is Peter or whoever else they're playing at Bustopher Jones. Like, they're eight different cats usually.

[25:16] Trent Stork: Yeah. So in our version, I kind of wanted to center it more along the sisters, that we get a little, a more direct feeling of redemption and forgiveness, that they kind of, they're the ones who kind of touch her last and send her up to the heavy side layer. And in our version, Gus, he wants, he, in his number, he's trying to perform and he falls ill. And we don't know what happens to Gus, but he's trying to make the show go on, but he can't. And so we kind of take him backstage and we just say the show must go on and we don't get to see Gus again.

[25:27] Trent Stork: Thanks for having us.

[25:29] Sylvia Hernandez-DiStasi: Yes, thanks for having us.

[25:29] Jake DiMaggio Lopez: Thanks for having us.

[25:31] Mike Abrams: Amazing. And thanks, everyone, for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breaking the cat's fetish. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or listen to the podcast. Follow us on social media at TheWrongCatDied or check our website, TheWrongCatDied.com.

[25:50] Mike Abrams: So it seems like you're making three joyful choices. You're taking out Gus, Cavity, and Grizabella here in this production, which is great for my story and argument. Thank you all for coming on and sharing about this production. I had an absolute blast opening night. The energy was amazing. I know it's still running. And when this is out, there'll still be a couple of weeks left. I know a ton of people are talking about it. So if you have not gone to see it and you can get yourself to the Chicago area and to Aurora, please go. I'll link how to buy tickets. I'll link how to follow everything because this was an incredibly fun production. So I appreciate y'all sharing some of your thoughts on it.