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[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catastrophe. I'm your host Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. We have been working with the Fulton Theatre's Amusement Park production of CATS to bring you a series of episodes this summer. And up next, we have James Patterson, who is playing the Bus Gus, Bus for Jones Gus, and a bunch of other people cast. So welcome, James, and thank you for joining me.

[0:36] James Patterson: Hey, thanks for having me.

[0:38] Mike Abrams: Excited to have you here. I mean, I'm a very pro-team Gus, so we'll get into the Jellicle Choice conversation at the end. But I always love to start with your history with CATS, because it's been around for so long. What is the first time you saw it? What's been your experience with it before the Fulton?

[0:55] James Patterson: Okay, so my experience is actually pretty extensive. When I first got to New York back in the, I'll say mid-90s, yeah, it was 1996, when I got into the fourth national company, the touring company of CATS. And I was cast as MonkaStrap. And so, I'm speaking of Peaks and Pollicles, which I know you're going to get to later. I was the one responsible for singing Peaks and Pollicles. And so, I did that for about nine months. And then after that, Mark Robin cast me in another production of CATS that he did at Main State Music Theater, in which I was cast as the Rum Tum Tugger. And now, I am playing Bustopher Jones and Asparagus. So yeah, it's been quite a journey with CATS, and three different roles, four different roles, both Gus and Gus.

[1:51] James Patterson: Yeah. So, I knew about the fourth tour, because the tours are published pretty well. And so, there's a lot of data on that. It's the regional productions, the other ones, that's really hard to keep up with and keep tabs on. And I knew, they had told me that you'd done a few things. It's an interesting part about this, though, because I've had a few people talk about how CATS is something you can do throughout your career and play so many different characters. And you've done that in parts. You've played narrator, you've played Tugger, now you're playing the, quote unquote, older with Gus. But you have that history that you're allowed to do with this show that I don't think exists in all that many other shows, where you can work your way through different characters throughout a career.

[2:36] James Patterson: Yeah. There's few shows like it. And you wouldn't think so with CATS, because you think CATS is being such a physical and dance-centric show. And yes, it is. But there are lots of amazing character parts also that exist in the show that help balance out all the dancing in the show. And that's exactly what Bustopher Jones and Gus does, as well as Grizabella and Old Deuteronomy, even.

[3:02] Mike Abrams: So now that you come in to The Fulton, I'm fascinated by the storytelling part of this. And I'm curious, when you start that process, I know you did an entire couple hours, almost a day full of talking through the relationships and the characters and everything. How much did you bring from your other experiences of like, oh, when I was Tugger, when I was Monkey's Trap, here's how I thought about that, into now your, bless Gus, kind of storyline?

[3:29] James Patterson: You know what? Since I did the original, and basically they mandated the story onto you. So I had that preconceived notion, but I had it the first time I did it with Mark, when I played Rum Tum Tugger. And then after, that was my first show I did with Mark. And Mark is great at recreating things and making things, you know, new. And, you know, taking it away from its original, you know, conceptions. So because I knew that's the way Mark worked, when I came into this process, as Bustopher and Gus, I just let myself go with what everybody else was thinking. Because these parts, they're such great parts. They're so ridiculous and fun, that, you know, you can just feed off of the energy around you and help build your character that way.

So I kind of used it as a moment to just see what everybody else is bringing to their storytelling and see how I could fit into that. And funny enough, it just seemed to work with whatever ideas I was coming up with. It was a really collaborative room. And we just had a good time of saying, you know what, I think we're related. And why aren't we related? You know, it's just fun just picking out new ideas and just running with it. And all ideas were good ideas.

[4:46] Mike Abrams: So tell us some of those things. Like, what did you come up with? Like, what is this particular Bustopher Jones and this particular Gus?

[4:53] James Patterson: Well, I figured my Bustopher Jones, you know, is a proper cat. He belongs to all the dining social clubs. And I think he's getting together the after party for the Jellicle Ball. So he's there just to say, hey, what's going on, you guys? And then, you know, they bring a whole plate of food. And I think he's looking at the catering services before he hosts a big party for everybody after the Jellicle Choice. And then—

[5:24] Mike Abrams: So this is a trial run, basically? Is he like testing the hot pretzels?

[5:28] James Patterson: A little bit. He's just making sure it's all good, that the pretzels are, you know, up to snuff. And also to say, hey, y'all, you're all invited.

[5:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah, okay.

[5:38] James Patterson: So yeah, he's just a big party love bug. I love Bustopher. He's just so fun and silly. And, you know, I've seen other productions where it makes sense, you know, that he's more snooty, but I like him just to be like, he's kind of a big fancy party cat. And as far as Gus, God, it's such a beautifully written, I think it's the best written character in the show, because there's more, there's arguably more written about, you know, Jelly Loren comes out and she tells his backstory, then he relates what he's going through. And it's, I figure, you know, Gus has had many, many grandchildren. He doesn't really remember who's his grandchildren at the moment. So he thinks everybody's his grandchild. And he's just very happy to be amongst people he loves. And he goes into, in and out of his past lives as a theater cat.

[6:41] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And I think because you do Peaks and Potholes and you do that whole part, you get an extra part to Gus that maybe it doesn't exist in other productions. You know, you talk about it, you hear it in the song, but you don't get to like experience it.

[6:55] James Patterson: Right. And I know, especially the revival, because it did change a lot from the original. In the original, Gus got to do a number called Growl Tiger, which turned into an aria, kind of a silly aria duet with Jelly Loren, who becomes Griddlegog. And that, you know, for certain reasons that has been cut, although I don't know if that was my favorite choice, you know, I think they could have done some judicious edits. The aria was lovely. And it was kind of silly because it's kind of like, you know, battling divas moment where two opera cats would kind of like upstate each other. But Peaks and Potholes, I have to say, all right, I'm going to go back for a little bit. When I did MonkaStrap, MonkaStrap originally would sing the entire Peaks and Potholes.

It wasn't divided up between anybody else. There's a few choral interjections, but basically it was a powder song only for MonkaStrap. And it's a challenge. It was, you know, you have to get your mind around all those nonsensical words and storylines. And when I was done with it, I was like, oh, thank God I never did have to do this again, only to find out that in the revival, they gave it to Gus. But I will say what Mark did with it here, I'm having so much fun. It's silly. It's great. And I love the fact that he turned it into kind of like a Shakespearean, you know, moment. It's just, it's ridiculous. And I think he's done it far better than it deserves to be done. I know that sounds terrible, but he's made it into something I look forward to every night.

[8:43] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it has some humorous aspects to it. It kind of breaks out a little bit. And I think, again, the part I didn't know as much about, but I love the amusement park kind of version of it, which is where, and I think that you all do this with Jenny Eddie dots too, where it's like, you start with the older cat explaining their past life, and then you go back into the life a little bit. And it feels like you're still like, you know, in the old part of the working amusement park and you're seeing the show as it was back then, which is a really kind of cool twist into this. That's, you know, again, doesn't dramatically change the story, but adds to the, you know, the, I guess the world that's being built in the amusement park kind of angle of this.

[9:28] James Patterson: I agree. I totally agree. And I think, I know in some other productions I've seen, and even for a little bit, and I hate to say this about the Broadway revival in 2016, which I thought was fine, but I felt like, like with Bustopher Jones and with The Peaks and Pollicles, I feel like they were apologizing for the numbers instead of really, you know, you know, championing them. Cause Bustopher Jones was cut down to almost nothing. There's some people on our, in our cast who did the tour and that production was like, Oh my God, I didn't realize there was another verse. I'm like, yeah, there is, you know? And so it's nice.

[10:37] James Patterson: Bustopher's the first cut in a lot of things. He's not on the road Caribbean cruise. It does seem like a spot that is constantly either shortened or just completely cut in other places. I sort of get it, but at the same time it's fun. It adds to the variety of cats and he is totally different from all the other cats. So yeah. And I get it for time purposes because it doesn't add much to the plot of anything, but it does add a lot to the character of the piece. And it's such a sweet, silly number. And Peaks and Pollicles is also one of those numbers where, you know, most people are like, what do I do with this? So again, and I, instead of like backing away from it, I really love how both Mark and Joey and the artistic staff here decided to lean into it. And in doing so it's, it's become, again, I'm having such a great time doing it.

[11:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah, and it fits so much clearer in the storyline than it did. And I guess maybe in the other versions I've seen, or just maybe just for me, it could be also my growth of seeing the show a lot more to where I now know it a lot better. But I've found that I followed along of where this was going, more so than that. But I want to go back to Bustopher. I want to go back to Bustopher a little bit, because it does get cut a lot because it's an interesting character in the sense of like what you just said, you're really, you're prepping for the after party. You're kind of just jumping in to sing a little bit.

[11:44] Chris: But you're not really, you know, auditioning for your choice for the Heaviside Layer. You're just kind of in there to explain, hey, I'm still here and I'm going to have a good time. I don't think there's a ton written about the relationships for Bustopher and the other cats. And I've made up a lot myself. And so I'm curious, how did you think about, or how did you start dealing with like, okay, what's my Grizabella or Jellylorum or Jenny Dots type of relationship for Bustopher versus the other cats?

[12:14] James Patterson: You know what I thought? I went by something so like basic as just simple coloring. You know, I'm a black and white cat. And also the fact that I just appear, I bring in this wonderful goodness message sort of thing, and then I pop off kind of like Mr. Mistoffelees. He's black and white. He comes in, he does his thing because technically, you know, he's in the entire piece, but he's only introduced as magical Mr. Mistoffelees after Deuteronomy has been kidnapped, which is pretty much almost two thirds, if not more so, at the end of the show. And he comes on and he does his magic. And he stays to the end of the show after that. But he really just comes on for that moment. I can't even remember for you probably know better than I do right now. In the original, I think the character is called something else. Technically, like, I'm not sure if he's called Quack- if he's Quackso.

[13:15] Chris: I think Quackso is Macavity usually.

[13:19] James: He's Macavity. But he's sometimes called a different name until he becomes Mr. Mistoffelees.

[13:24] Chris: No, you know what? I think it might be Quackso. There's a couple like that.

[13:28] James: Yeah. Even like Gus is called something else before.

[13:33] Chris: Well, in 2016, it was Peter, which is my least favorite cat. I just think it's the worst name. But it was Peter because you're Peter and then you're Bustopher and then you're Gus.

[13:44] James: Okay, there you go. I didn't know that's a pretty- all right, there you go. Why not? I mean, he's mentioned in the naming of cats. So at least they stuck to that.

[13:52] Chris: That's where it came from.

[13:54] James: Yeah.

[13:54] Chris: But I've also like, you know, you've got Mistoffelees, Mungo Jerry, Rumpelteazer, and then you've got Peter. It's like the lamest name possible for it.

[14:02] James: I know, right?

[14:02] Chris: Is there a Grizabella relationship? Because there's a lot of rumors that they were friends before she left the tribe.

[14:09] James: I always felt like they were. I feel like, you know, whenever Griz was like, doing her thing, you know, she could always come to a place where Bustopher was at and she would always be welcomed with open arms. You'd always make sure she was well fed. And then she'd probably trot off and do her glamour stuff and I'd still be eating.

[14:27] Chris: Yeah. You have a much more wholesome Bustopher Jones than I do.

[14:32] James: What is your idea of Bustopher?

[14:36] Chris: I, and this is purely, I know exactly what this all stems from, is that the British term Gentleman's Club is very different than the American term Gentleman's Club. And I read that and I just immediately thought Bustopher was running like a Sopranos mob with Macavity. And he was like funding it. And so I've always had this kind of like, he's a mob boss, like behind the scenes, he's the money, he's the one that's at the Italian restaurant, eating all the stuff, eating all the food, but then, you know, in the back room, potentially dealing with some negative stuff with Macavity. So if you take that angle, there's a lot you can do with it. Because then when Grizabella leaves the tribe, is she working for him? You know, like, is she working with Macavity? Because he's kind of in and out. It allows there's, you know, to be using the twins for some mischievous ways. It opens up a lot of story for Bustopher. And I think sometimes it doesn't happen.

[15:39] James: Well done with that, sir. I love that.

[15:42] Chris: My other Bustopher take is, is that I think that the reason Jellylorum doesn't like Grizabella is because that was a love triangle between the three of them. And I think like, you know, as for me, I spend only thinking about this stuff. Like it's all I do is think about the relationships and the stories and the things. When it's you as a performer, it's like, you've got to go out there and completely switch your mind. You know, at some point you're playing like six characters in one day, because you're going to do Bustopher Jones and you're going to do Gus, then you're going to do Growltiger. And then you're going to, you know, you're going to go through that and you got a two-show day. You're not thinking about all these relationships at that level.

You don't need to, like, it's a fun storytelling arc to think about, but it's not like necessary for the role. That's all I'm thinking about. Cause I don't have to worry about, you know, your dance numbers hitting the right notes at the right time. I'm purely sitting here from a story perspective. I love that.

[16:48] James: I want to ask about the, what I believe they're called, just calling them the teens because they got to make up their own stories. And I'm still waiting. I've been promised, I've been promised the backstories for all of these new made-up kittens, but how many of them have relationships with Gus and Bustopher?

[17:05] James Patterson: You know what? They really, it was funny. When we were doing the day when we all, you know, we're talking about our characters for something with the, we all sat in a giant circle and the way it was all the teens started first, just out of happenstance. And I could not believe how detailed and how Gossip Girl their backstories were. It was fantastic. Not a lot of, I decided that most of them are my grandkids as Gus. Bustopher, I don't think Bustopher knows them yet. I think he's getting to know them because he does just pop in and out and they're still too young to go to his clubs, but when they get there, they'll have a free drink. That's for sure.

[17:59] Chris: Okay. So yeah. So there's not a huge relation for that, but they're not so much. I mean, he knows them, he loves them and stuff, but I don't think he, he's just so like, how do I describe Bustopher? He's just like that glamorous uncle or aunt that just comes in, you know, just breezes through like a hurricane, but you want to get all that crazy. And then he just goes off and, you know, lives his life.

[18:30] Chris: Yeah. It's, it is such a, it's such a unique kind of like pop in. And I love the teen aspect because they're adding another flavor to the show that you don't get in other places, which is super fun. Is there any, one of their stories that stood out where you were like, I wish we had this on tour? Like we needed this type of, this particular backstory would have added something.

[18:53] James Patterson: Let's see. You know what? I can't remember any specifics right now that now that you're recording, but they're just like, Oh, I think I'm in love with her, but I'm not really him. It was like all these great little relationships that were just so silly. And, you know, unfortunately I can't remember any particular, but I was just so taken with how detailed they all were. I, you know, honestly, any of their energies on that tour would have been wonderfully appreciated. You know, I mean, we had great energy on that tour. I'm not going to, I mean, some of my lifelong friends and people who were just geniuses, but yeah, just to have that silly, you know, teenage energy, it's just, it's great. You know, you need that on that bus, you know, when you got that split week, you need some of that energy to help you through.

[19:48] Chris: Oh, that's great. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. You know, there's, there's a little bit of a balance as someone who's experienced the show and also experienced it with Mark and, um, before, but how much did you, like, did the Monkish Trap and the Tugger come to you for advice and kind of talk through that? Like, how much did you bring that knowledge to this process?

[20:11] James Patterson: You know what I, I've learned and also haven't been in yet. When I was a younger performer, I've had, you know, got into shows with people who have done the parts, whatever part I was in, they've done the part before and they inserted themselves and told me what I should do. And, you know, I wasn't, you know, I was young, I wasn't very confident. And so I always did what they told me to do. And I tried in a previous production to offer what I thought was the same advice. And I realized as I was doing it, it's like, no, these people should be able to create on their own. You know, I want to see what they do because they're going to bring something completely new and exciting. And if they want to know my background, sure, I will be an open door for them.

But with this show and with the other ones too, it's like, I don't go up and say, Hey, you know, it would really work. You know, they brought just completely themselves and who they are as an artist. And I think it's just been great. I love seeing, you know, brand new takes on material.

[21:16] Chris: Totally. I would have actually thought the reverse. So I wouldn't have expected you to kind of be like, all right, I did this. So here's my, here's the way you need to do it. Like that's, that's not what I've expected, but what I, with a show like this, because there is such loose interpretations, I've noticed that there's a lot of like people seek out kind of all the versions and then to create their own. Like I hear a lot of like, my podcast has turned into a great resource for these productions. I know a lot of regional productions, high school productions, college productions that have used episodes from previous cast members that I've interviewed to hear their version and then, you know, soak all of those in to then say, okay, now here's mine.

And so I've always thought that that's a cool part to have someone like you who has experience doing it in a couple of different settings to be able to say, okay, I want to hear a little bit about this, a little bit about that. And then I kind of add my own flavor, my add my own thing. So it's kind of again, like there's, it's so undefined in some cases, like even, you know, I know in the playbill is the story and I loved watching people around me reading it because a lot of people walked in, I don't think I had any idea what they were walking into, which still amazes me 40 plus years later. But you know, it's a page. And even the one that Mark sent me was two pages. And that's a lot and not a lot when you think about the amount of, I mean, even just the things we talked about, different relationships and different, you know, the kittens and being your grandchildren and like, there's a lot of other things that aren't on paper.

[22:55] James Patterson: Right. You can kind of really add to this story.

[22:57] James Patterson: Well, I remember when I was first cast in Cats and, you know, I went and I saw the Broadway production before I went out on tour. I honestly had never seen it. I trained as a classical singer and I was like, how do I get into this big dance show? And so, and then when I got there, um, the stage manager sat me down and he said, I'm going to tell you the story of Cats. And I honestly thought that they were going to be talking about like the history and the making of an immediate.

[23:28] James Patterson: He jumps into the story about the character Demeter, who's been repeatedly abused and raped by, you know, Mr. McAvaney. And I was like, what? What is that the first thing they tell you? That is the first thing he told me. Yeah, I was like, I was shocked. And I was waiting at one period of time to say, Oh, I'm just joking. It's just a bit of, you know, poetry that they said to music. No, and they were very adamant about, you know, some of these storylines. So I was like, Oh, okay, I got to get on board with this. But yeah, that is the first thing they told me. That's fascinating to hear that. Because I, you know, I've done enough of these now. And when I walked out of the show the first time, like, that's not, that's not implied.

Like, you know, you don't walk out and say, Oh my God, I can't believe McAvaney did that to her. Yeah. Like it's, it's not there, but it's the, it is one of the first and only things that I think there's 100% definitive. This has happened. It's that. And then the other one is Victoria's lift is her losing her virginity. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, those are the two things that are a hundred percent true. And there's a lot of other stuff that's now a question mark. Right. And it fascinates me that those are the two is like, well, we're for sure. So you being told that as the first plot point is wild to me that that's like, I wonder why that's such an important part. Like it's a huge part of how she plays her character, but it's not really material to the story any other way.

No, it just, yeah. And then, you know, as the story was being told to me, the person telling me the story brought themselves to tears when they said that, you know, Grizabella was going up into the Heaviside lair. This person was full on crying. And I was like, what have I gotten myself into? Yeah. Well, I do think a part of what sustains the show is that like the ability to kind of follow the storylines because, you know, as I've learned it more and there's a lot of super fans who, I mean, I feel like I know it pretty well, or I know at least certain parts. I know the relationship and the story and that part of the show probably better than most, but there are some super fans who like really know it.

And the second or third time I saw the show ever, I didn't know anything about the twins. And then the twins are my most fascinating part of watching the show at that time. And so I do think that what makes it sustain a little bit is that you can kind of have a different experience watching the show frequently because you could watch that storyline or you could watch Demeter's reaction. And there's so many things, and especially with your production with 30, I think there's 36 of you all, there's a lot of cats on stage and there's a lot of things happening. Even that's not the focal point. That's really fun. And really, I want to come back so I can see more of that because I was, again, I'm always overwhelmed when I see the show, but I was overwhelmed with the amount of you on stage, but it made for this, it made for this like really cool, the way I like the layering of cats on the, you know, on the track and all the other stuff.

It's a visually really cool to watch. We're having a great time and it's so beautiful. I can't believe what they did with the sets here. I mean, it's extensive. It really, really is. And I'm just, I'm in awe of everybody on that stage.

[26:38] Mike Abrams: So can I give you, before we go to the rapid fire and the important, you know, million dollar question, can I give you a couple ideas? One thing I love about these productions are, is to be able to kind of give you a little bit of a tweak of a thing to try on stage to tell me if it works or doesn't work. And I love with Busterfur, there's a couple options for that. And then there are for Gus too, but maybe a little bit less for Gus because his story is a lot more defined. But I think like, you know, when you're doing a two shot today, not today's, tomorrow's a two show day when we're recording this, tomorrow's a two show day. So maybe this is like a, you know, a matinee, give it a little twirl and see if it works. But I love the idea. I still love my Busterfur mob boss idea. And so I want to know if like, is there a moment in your song or when you're as Busterfur, where you could try to like be recruiting the teens into your mob?

[27:42] James Patterson: Oh, I would love that. Honestly, I would love, the only thing that prevents me from doing that is because at that period of time, they are all behind me on the scaffolding. And I, I turn up and I say hi to them, but it's just for like a brief bit. It's when you get out of the car, right? It's like, you're, you're hopping out of the car. And so, so get this. So my friends came to see the show. I was like, Oh wow. Yeah. You drove a car. They sing about how you eat. That's what cats do. But no one's talking about the fact that you're driving a car. Like, well, you have to, you have to suspend a little bit of belief here to buy in the, almost the entire story. If, if that's where we're going to draw the line is, is Busterfur driving. It's like, we're sending one up on a roller coaster into the moon. But, but God forbid a cat hops behind the wheel of a car.

[28:38] Mike Abrams: I didn't even think about that. I did. I got in the car before you did that, that morning, like we hopped in and there's pictures of me in the car. And, and so, yeah, we were, I didn't even think about that. That didn't even cross my mind. I'm like, Oh yeah, you're driving. I, there's so many other ridiculous parts of the show that, that, you know, teaching a, teaching a cockroach how to crochet there and like the lyrics, but that's so funny that your friends, that's great. That's, I love that a part about cats though, is that they saw something so different. They're just like, they're so blown away. Cause I was mesmerized the first time I really, I didn't know what I was walking into. I was, I had never seen the show.

I knew memory and that was it. And I saw a matinee, I had just moved to New York and I was like, not prepared to even see a show. Like I kind of found out about the tickets really late. And I thought I was on like an acid trip. Like I thought it was a, like a drug induced, like coma. It really is an altered state of reality when you watch it. And so I couldn't even figure out what I was watching, let alone any of these other like little things here and there. I was just like, where are these names? Who are these people? What's going on? Like, you know, and it's fun. Like, it's such a fun thing. And then it's the other thing too, is, is like, because it's a dance show, like I'm more of a dance show.

You see, if you, I mean, anywhere you are in the theater, you see the like athletic feet it takes to do this show. Like it is, it is a grind for two and a half hours of dancing. It really is. So I, I I'm here for it.

[30:20] James Patterson: Okay. So you're not gonna be able to recruit the teens very easily, but you know what? Maybe I do have, can you do my love triangle? I could do the love triangle. The Grizz, Joey Norm love triangle. You're not busted for all that long though. What happens is Grizz comes on, she leaves, then I come on and then I bop off. So there's, however, I'm, I'm kind of getting the sweet for, uh, I do love our bomb ballerina. She's right next to me on the car. So I try to, you know, flirt with her as I talk about the food.

[30:53] Mike Abrams: Uh, I'm, I'm here for it. Okay. Let's, let's do some rapid fire. Um, for, for cats, cats and only cats. So you've now played three, four, technically cats, more than four, actually. Um, who would you want to go on? If you could go on one night again, doesn't matter male, female, just if you could do it one night, who do you want to go on as?

[31:03] James Patterson: Oh gosh. You know what? I would have said Gus, but now I'll take them off the table. I would, I, Gus is still my first choice. Um, but I would say I'd love to do Grizz. Grizz. Yeah. Just come out 15 minutes on stage. That's it. Just seeing that powerhouse number, you know, everyone loves you and you get to go right on either a rollercoaster tire, you know, whenever they decide to sip her off on, you know, that's pretty great.

[31:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Well, I still, I, I spent a good hour of the whole episode trying to convince Mark to send you up one night, just one night, just one night instead joke about like, what happens to Gus after this? It's a, it's a fair question.

[31:57] James Patterson: Well, okay, let's, let's get to that. Hold on. I'm going to, let's, let's finish the rabbit fire. Cause then that's my last question is the jungle choice. So, um, who are your favorite and least favorite cats from a personality standpoint? Cause they're all family. So which one do you want to hang out with and which one kind of bugs you?

[32:04] James Patterson: All right. Let's see. I would hang out with misto misto. Definitely. I would probably hang out with, uh, oh, I love Jenny. Any dots with Jenny and also with, um, who else Tugger would be fun. I kind of like to meet her, you know, she's in our production. She's so sweet. I'm like, yeah, meet her. Definitely.

[32:35] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Who's, who's bugging you? Which cats, which, which is the family member you don't want to hang out with?

[32:40] James Patterson: That's the thing. I think as Gus, I don't think he remembers. I'm asking as James.

[32:46] James Patterson: Oh, it was James. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's see. Now this has nothing to do with the people who are playing. Yeah. Just because they're a little bit more, you know, bomb value arena is a little harsh. She has to be, I get it, but she'd be a little bit rougher to hang out with maybe even, um, Monk, even though I love that character, I did that character. He is all about the rules and sometimes you just want to, you know, relax a little and yeah. Yeah. I would see those two.

[33:29] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. What's your favorite song in the show?

[33:29] James Patterson: Oh gosh. Oh, Deuteronomy. I think that's a beautiful melody. I think it's just so sweet. And I love the, the, the vocal arrangement, Stuart as well, how it builds. It's just, I love that.

[33:46] Mike Abrams: Which cat's the best carnival worker? Like who's going to work really well at that amusement park?

[33:53] James Patterson: I would say tumble brutish or, um, um, who am I thinking of, uh, car buckety or, or you're going with the young, you're going with the younger one.

[34:11] James Patterson: I'm going with the younger ones. I think that they, but if you want a good old seasoned, you know, who I'd want behind my back all the time. And also because I love her completely is, is, um, Jelly Lauren. She would be the one I'd want in my corner for anything.

[34:31] Mike Abrams: I think Jelly Lauren's too responsible to work at a carnival.

[34:34] James Patterson: She is, but she tries.

[34:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I think, I think my, I, my answer, and I said this to Katie, I think the twins are the ones doing that. Like guess your birth month and you know, all that stuff. Like they're going to, they're going to be hustling everybody out of money.

[34:57] James Patterson: The twins, our twins are amazing. Oh my God. Twins are incredible. It was so fun to watch them. It's probably my favorite. Like I tell people, like, if you've seen this show before the next time, watch them. Because they have such a unique story.

[35:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Um, as you know, aside from Deuteronomy and some of the other characters, but it was, so now that I see the twins in the show, I'm like, I don't know why we didn't have them. They were fantastic. It goes back to where can you cut if you need to cut? How do we afford a tour? And that is, again, I think like the Royal Caribbean where there's less, like, I think you can get away with, with that storyline not being there. And it's like, it's, it's cool. It's a great part of it, but it's like, eh, you could, when you have to make those decisions, you can't, and there are a couple of places that you could do that. Um, okay. We got to talk about the Jellicle choice. Obviously I've argued at length that I don't think Grisabella is the right Jellicle choice. So I'm asking you as James, who is your Jellicle choice and why?

[36:32] James Patterson: It would still be Gus.

[36:34] Mike Abrams: Pick Gus, team Gus.

[36:35] James Patterson: I would be team Gus, you know, just because, you know, it's his time. It's just his time.

[36:42] Mike Abrams: And so tell me about that conversation that you said that you had a whole thing about where does he go or what does he do? Like, what was that whole, what is the thought about him?

[36:51] James Patterson: You know, I believe that he does make it another year. He makes another year and then he's selected the following year. Um, and I think the way I approach it, you know, at the very end, you know, when Deuteronomy is presenting both, well, basically two choices until Grisabella is considered to be a choice as he presents Jenny and he dots and he presents Gus. I'm like, after watching Grisabella do memory of like, of course you can't choose me. You have to choose this cat who's in desperate need. And, and so that's what makes it make, I believe for me, it makes it make sense. Um, we do have like, what does happen to Gus after? And we're all, it's all joking. It's all just silly things. Like, it's like, we see like Gus being dragged on the back of the roller coaster.

He's hanging on as he's, as Grisabella is going up, you know, Gus licks the light bulb. He doesn't realize that he electrocutes himself, you know, things. I love it. What other ways can we, can we off Gus here since he doesn't get picked?

[37:58] James Patterson: He doesn't get picked. He gets turned into a violin string, you know?

[38:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I, so I, I agree. I actually think there's an interesting part of your production is you only have the two choices. Like it's very clear that it's a choice between Jenny and he dots and Gus, which does, which does open up an interesting question of why are all these other cats singing for their chance? Um, and it kind of makes them a lot more disruptive. Like the tugger one is very much now, uh, I'm not trying, I'm just disrupting. Um, but my argument and I still firmly believe is like, I'm glad that you think Gus is making it through the next year and he can go next year. I think Grisabella can make it through the next year and she should go next year. Like that's really, to me is the redemption is her now getting to be with her. And in your case, the story with her daughter, like the daughters, I thought that she was like, well, great. Now that she's finally make her amends with the daughter, we're going to kill her.

[38:52] James Patterson: Exactly. And a lot of it too, is like, Sarah's not, not that old. Like she's not exactly like, in a lot of, a lot of the Grisabella's I've seen are not that old. Like they're, you know, they're, they're trying to be like, they're, they're incredible actors and incredible singers. And they're performing that, like, I like that they, they need it. But I know you look at him like, no, you know, you're in your thirties, like you're in a couple of months, like you're in your twenties, like you'll be okay. You'll be okay for another year, one more year, just one more year, spend some time. So you're team Gus and you have the same team. How did you all talk about the heavyside layer? Because it is like, you're riding a roller coaster to the moon. Um, what is the, did Mark and Joey define that for you all?

[39:36] James Patterson: No, not so much. Um, he let that be basically what we all wanted it to be, which I thought was a nice idea. And what do I think the heavyside layer is? I do think it is, you know, going on to that next existence, you know, whatever you believe, whatever you choose your afterlife or your heavenly reward to be is, that's what I always thought the heavyside layer was.

[40:01] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I took a very dark, dark thought process in this first one, which is very clear by a lot of my stuff. Like we got a mom boss, but I'm like, I'm like, this is just, this is just off in cats here at the end of every year. Like it's a, it's like truly cultish sacrificing. Um, so it is much more wholesome to have the, like, okay, we're going to, we're going to, we need it. This is a reward. And you're going to come back into a safer, better place, which I have seen a few productions have done different versions of that. Like the circus cats recently it's, it's over now. So I don't, I'm not spoiling it, but they, they send their Grizabella up on like a trapeze type of thing. And then a younger Grizabella comes back down. Oh, and right away. Um, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Like, yeah.

[40:46] James Patterson: You have to wait longer for McDonald's. My God.

[40:48] Mike Abrams: Exactly. It is, it is a straight, straight up and back. Um, and then, you know, like the, the ballroom one, the pack, the, uh, packs, uh, cats that didn't feel as like, it actually didn't feel like she was dying. It felt like she was actually going back into the world, like much more of a, I get, it felt like she's going back into the, the, the real world of like being reborn into like, like into life. So it felt less of like, it feels so definitive at times of like, it's like dying and, and, and done versus ending on a little bit of a happier note.

[41:23] James Patterson: Right.

[41:25] Mike Abrams: Um, there's still time. Can you just one night just cut in front of her and go up?

[41:31] James Patterson: You know what? I think maybe I will. Maybe I'll just, uh,

[41:36] Mike Abrams: or just hop in the car with her. I mean, why not have to, I mean, since they, uh, you know, yeah, you could do the together. I'd be fine with both of them. Yeah.

[41:46] James Patterson: Or you could have Jenny, you know, put all three of us in together. We can all just ride that, that little cart together and go. So I, I did get, I also got in that car. They let me have way too much fun on the set before your show the first day. And I, and I'm hoping to actually ride it when I come back. Um, but I got in, you could easily put two people in there.

[42:06] Mike Abrams: Although it's multi it's, it's two cars though. Right? Like it's, it's the one that goes across.

[42:10] James Patterson: Yeah. So you got, I didn't try the other car. Yeah. I tried one of them.

[42:13] Mike Abrams: No, I haven't tried any of them yet, which I'm jealous that you've done that.

[42:17] James Patterson: I haven't done it yet. I just got it. I got to sit in, sat in one of them. I, um, I'm waiting to be mechanically, uh, sent myself to the Heaviside lair one time as my goal. That's why I'm coming back. I'm coming back to try to, to try to ride myself to the Heaviside lair.

[42:32] Mike Abrams: I think you should, I think, let me know what it's like, if it is exactly what you think it is. I still, I still, I messaged Joey and Mark all the time. I'm like, just one night, just one, one matinee, you know, like you tell people ahead of time and, and just, it's all it is. And it's not in your production. It's not that difficult to do it because all you got to do, like if you don't have the harness of the tire and a lot of places, like you just sit down and you get pulled up and then you'd have to change the graphic. But I, I offered to do that for them. I was like, I can, I can help. And so, uh, but yeah, no, I think, I think the potential cease and desist and not being able to ever do it after might, might be a little bit of a deterrent, but I just, I think one night, I think one night I couldn't, I'd be very excited for that to happen. I, uh, I think you should just go rogue.

[43:22] James Patterson: Maybe I will. I'll just, you know,

[43:30] Mike Abrams: Gus shoving Grisabella would be the best thing. How could I just get in there before she could get in? And, you know, that's all.

[43:37] James Patterson: So when she's, as she finishes memory, just get in the car, just get in the car, don't give her a chance. And then she comes back and she stands right next to jelly and she stands in your spot and then you go, that's it. That's well, there you go. We've just, we have a new ending of the show now. And honestly, the way I would do it, if I really wanted to like truly make it more like true in the storytelling is put, um, put Cassandra next to her, like have her be like back in with truly with her family.

[44:05] Mike Abrams: Well, there you go. I think that works. That's the redemption arc we all want or I want, and you want, cause you're picking Gus too. So this is the redemption arc we want. And then Grisabella can do, you know, next year she can have her little feature.

[44:21] James Patterson: Next year's choice. Yeah. She can sing memory without having to feel, yeah, exactly. She can do whatever her, whatever her version of that is. Cause what did she do these last couple of years when she was out? We'll get that version when she's telling her story, right? She just comes there and sings a song that could have won Eurovision. And you know, my little patter song goes away.

[44:43] James Patterson: Yeah. Well, no, you're already up here. You're now just Peter and Bustopher at this point.

[44:48] Mike Abrams: That's right. I am St. Peter, St. Peter and Bustopher. And then the Gus number is now Grisabella's number. That's perfect. This is all right. We fixed, we fixed it.

[45:02] James Patterson: All right. I'm going to call Sir Andrew and you know, Cameron and all those people.

[45:07] Mike Abrams: We'll send this to him and to Mark just as another example. Just a reminder, we have ideas that could work for one night or one day.

[45:16] James Patterson: I think it's possible. I think it's possible.

[45:24] Mike Abrams: This has been so fun. How can people stay in touch with you, social media or any way to keep in touch with everything you're doing?

[45:29] James Patterson: Yeah. Follow me on Facebook or I'm on Instagram as all new, all different Jimmy P. Instagram. Yeah. My old email was, my old Instagram was much easier, but I got hot. So that's my new one. All new, all different Jimmy P.

[45:50] Mike Abrams: All right. We'll link that for everybody. Same with Facebook and everything. And this has been so fun. I love it. It's been a super fun conversation. I had the best time talking about this. You are awesome. I love your history and your knowledge and your clear love for this. This has been so much fun. My goal is to change the show for somebody. I thought I had a partner in crime with Mark and Joey, but I'm still struggling to get somebody to let me send you up one night. But no, this has been great. I will let you know, because I'm going to be coming back at least once more to give you all ideas to go on stage with and hear more about the team.

[46:27] James Patterson: I am ready for it.

[46:28] Mike Abrams: If you test out either the Mob Boss or the Love Triangle, let me know if any of those work.

[46:33] James Patterson: I definitely will.

[46:36] Mike Abrams: Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on and thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown, The Cat's Atrophied. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast. Follow us on social media at TheWrongCatDied or check out our website at thewrongcatdied.com.