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[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of CATS. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. He was Skimbleshanks in the most recent 2025 Shawnee Playhouse production that just actually wrapped up. So welcome, Michael Guerriere, thank you for joining me.

[0:29] Michael Guerriere: Thank you for having me, Mike. Excited to have you. I am so bummed I didn't get to go. And I've talked to now a couple people from your production, your director and then also your Macavity. But I'm excited to hear your story because we talked a little bit before and we exchanged some messages about your experience with CATS. But before we talk about your production, I always love to hear your history with the musical. So before 2025, doing it as Skimbleshanks, when was your introduction to CATS?

[0:54] Michael Guerriere: So I've always heard bits and pieces about the history of CATS on Broadway and on the West End. But I never got the chance to see it live or see like any other production live until what we have here in Pennsylvania is called the Freddie Awards, which is basically a Tony-esque theater awards ceremony for high school students within Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania and Warren County in New Jersey. And in 2012, one of the high schools actually did CATS and they were up for the Freddie Award for Outstanding Overall Production of a Musical. And the schools that are up for that Freddie Award specifically get to perform one of their featured numbers on the stage at the State Theater Center for the Arts in Easton.

And that school, Southern Lehigh High School, did Jellicle Songs for Jellicle CATS. And I remember being in the audience and I was so enamored by the costumes. In fact, I had a couple friends that were at Southern Lehigh at the time performing in CATS. So it was really cool to see all the costumes and I get to see all the movements and all like all the finesse that really went into the production. And aside from that, I just basically went on my own way. I never really got into CATS as my career went on until 2025, which is when I got into CATS at the Shawnee Playhouse. So that's basically my history involving CATS.

[2:39] Mike Abrams: I think it's cool to hear the high school did it and then you're at this award ceremony and you're getting just this one song. But before that, had you even seen the 1998 movie or the CATS album? Did you have any familiarity with it or was that award show really kind of your introduction to it?

[2:50] Michael Guerriere: That was actually the introduction to me into CATS because I never watched the 1998 film. I never even watched the 2019 film.

[3:01] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[3:04] Michael Guerriere: But once I got cast as Skimbleshanks in CATS, I started to really dive deep into watching like the 1998 film, listening to the cast recordings of both Broadway and West End to try to get a feel of what the style was like and also what the movement was like.

[3:24] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So okay, so you get cast now and it's interesting. You're doing, I think, 16 to 18 shows, right? It's like a couple weeks. And so you're going through this rehearsal process with someone who did it on Broadway, who's directing it, who has this intense familiarity with the show. How much, like, walk me through what you were told about Skimbleshanks and what your kind of introduction to Skimbleshanks was because it is kind of a very unique character. He is very lively. I will give you that.

[3:52] Michael Guerriere: So my introduction to Skimbleshanks was that he was this extremely meticulous character. He wants everything to run smoothly by the book. He's all about cleanliness. He's all about order. He's all about high standards. And I wanted to keep that in my character interpretation of Skimbleshanks. However, as I was listening to the song and as I was watching Jeffrey Garrett perform as Skimbleshanks in the 1998 film, I started to realize that Skimble had a little bit of a cheeky side to him. And that's the thing that I wanted to balance out along with his meticulous side. So as I was creating the character, I thought, well, usually his character is described as one of the older, mature cats within the Jellicle tribe.

But since, you know, I'm this little guy, I'm not usually the tallest when it comes to being cast in a production. I thought, why not make him a younger adult? No longer a kitten, but a younger adult to where he actually is kind of like Thomas, sticking with the theme of trains here. You know, Thomas the Tank Engine, he's all about getting the job done. But there's this cheeky side to Thomas that makes him relatable to a lot of kids. There's this high standards, which makes him relatable to adults. That's the kind of persona that I was going for when I was playing Skimbleshanks.

[5:34] Mike Abrams: Okay. So I love kind of hearing that, because I always felt Skimbleshanks was like the uncle. You know, like he's kind of the keeping everything in order on time uncle that comes in. Where were there moments where you got to kind of play some of that fun? Like, were there certain sections of the show where you got to really flex that part more for you?

[5:55] Michael Guerriere: Definitely during the number. Obviously, there's that part in the early portion of the song where Skimble lifts his leg up, you know, doing that little busy in the luggage van kind of bit. And after that, the flash of the glass green eyes, where I made the flash and I scared Monkeystrap and he falls right into Runtum Tugger and they, you know, have a little scuffle there, and I kind of like laugh it off. So that's a moment where I wanted that little cheeky side to come out. Other moments during the show. Definitely during the Peaks and the Pollicles was when I definitely really got to let that cheeky side of Skimble out, especially when I was paired along with Finn Naughton, who is the Mungojerry in our production.

Because we got to sit around next to each other while Monkeystrap was basically narrating the song and we got to make fun of dogs and stuff like that. So that was another moment during the show where I really got to get that cheeky side of Skimble out.

[7:10] Mike Abrams: So by playing Skimble younger, by not putting him in that older bucket, did you have to adjust any of the relationships that you were thinking about? Because generally there are some of these... Skimble doesn't have the very clear, like, he has to be this, he has to be that. There's a lot of like, there's some rumors, there was one, there was some Tugger stuff that happened in the 2016 Broadway revival. So there's all these different kind of versions you can do. So it lends you a lot of opportunity. But since you aged him down, did you think about different relationships because of that?

[7:50] Michael Guerriere: I did. That was actually one of the talking points whenever we were backstage waiting to go on, we talk about like what relationships each of the characters have towards each other. And I was actually sitting with the castmates who were playing Exotica, Mungojerry and Rumpelteazer. And my interpretation of how I played Skimbleshanks kind of lends him to be like the older brother of Mungogerry and Rumpelteazer. Kind of like, you know, there's that cheekiness there, but he's growing, he's got that maturity that's coming in, while his younger siblings are still these troublemakers causing a lot of chaos and mischief.

[8:35] Mike Abrams: Okay. So did you, like, there's always some interesting romantic interests for Skimble that could be implied. Did you do that anywhere? Did you think about that in any of the relationships that you had?

[8:45] Michael Guerriere: For me personally, I didn't feel like it was necessary to give Skimble a relationship specifically to another character in the show. I think the closest I got was when I thought about, you know, what if Skimbleshanks was the brother to Demeter? And because we kind of have a moment because we kind of had a moment at the top of Act Two during the moments of happiness where I would like crawl over to the person who was playing Demeter and give her, you know, that cat nuzzle, saying like, hello, but nothing like romantic, like going into that a little further. So there were relationships, but nothing like romantic in my interpretation of Skimble.

[9:34] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I want to ask you, because one of the coolest things that your production did that I was fascinated hearing about, and I've now heard a couple variations of it, which is really cool, you actually had a different Grizabella go on every night, and you had some male-identifying Grizabellas, you had some female-identifying, I think you had some non-binary, but you had a different, like they only did one show each. And so as a performer, what was that like for you? Because I'm fascinated by the idea because it is such an outsider coming in role as Grizabella, so I thought it was such a brilliant decision, but it also means that every night you had a different Grizabella.

[10:11] Michael Guerriere: It was very interesting, because I'd never worked with a lot of the people who played Grizabella during certain performances before. So I was going into each performance blind with these people who are playing Grizabella, so it was interesting to figure out like, what are these people's like mannerisms? Do they like to make choices? Do they, you know, do they like to move around a lot more? So it was interesting to develop a relationship with the different people who are playing Grizabella, because we never knew what we were going to get once each performance started, because I think I listened to the Naomi Naughton episode where she talked about, you know, how she didn't rehearse the Grizabella parts while the rest of us were rehearsing. So basically, I think going into each performance, in my opinion, working with a different Grizabella adds a layer of transparency and adds a layer of spontaneity. Like you never know what you're going to get and it

[11:24] Michael Guerriere: It adds more authenticity to your reactions to how Grizabella moves, how she looks, how she sings. You know, it's, and it was so interesting, you know, to be a part of something like that because honestly, usually, it's one person that does, you know, Grizabella and you have like an understudy that, you know, fills in for her whenever, you know, she goes on. So that was actually one of my favorite parts of the production was getting to perform with 16 different people.

[12:03] Michael Guerriere: Yeah. It's such an authentic way to use Grizabella because the entire Grizabella storyline is that she's been cast out. And for a lot of the cats, especially if you've aged down Skimbleshanks, like you might not know her. Like a lot of the kittens don't know her. They've heard stories. And so to have that truly, I think the word you use that as what I was thinking is authenticity. It's the most authentic reaction. If you weren't used to, you know, by the 15th show, you know, if you had one Grizabella kind of how she's going to do it. Assuming again that you, I know you had male identifying, which is, I also think fascinating and really cool decision. But you kind of know what to expect and by having someone different every night, you really don't know when they walk out what that experience is going to be and what that memory is going to be like and what that, you know, you have to kind of show that little hatred and then that accepting and you get to do it differently every night.

I think that's so unique and was something that I thought was cool. And as an audience member getting to go, you can go every night and get a totally different version essentially, which is something that doesn't exist in most other shows. And I thought was really cool, not just about your production. I think that's a cat in general, but especially in your production. And then I think Naomi was the last one, right? Like she was the final Grizabella, wasn't she? Or one of the second to last ones. So then you get to do and perform with your director who's been kind of guiding you through this whole process.

[13:26] Michael Guerriere: Absolutely. And, uh, it was, I was always looking forward to memory and how each of the different Grizabellas would interpret that number. And it was so interesting because I got to see, you know, the emotional side of each and every one of these different people, you know, once they hit that touch me at that, uh, final, um, belting part. And it's, uh, I got to say, I was, I was really, really trying to hold back emotion for each and every one of these different Grizabellas. Cause even though they did that part so differently, they evoked like that certain passion, that certain desire, as Naomi said in her episode, to be accepted, to let that vulnerability come out and just really let themselves be themselves.

[14:22] Michael Guerriere: We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. One thing that when we were messaging before, you know, and talking about doing this episode that you mentioned was this whole thing about trust. And it's a show that requires such a level of trust. And I'm interested, like when you said that, I started thinking a lot about it because, you know, you hear about it and I've heard a lot of people who've done it on tour and like they build all this trust, but they also are like a family that are traveling around and in hotels and buses and everything together. You all had a very short period of time to build the trust and then to perform. So how did you feel in like this experience that related, um, knowing that it was, again, almost on a rushed timeline to build trust so quickly with people that you had to rely on to not get kicked and not get, you know, in the wrong space at the wrong time? And it's just such an important part.

[15:14] Michael Guerriere: What helped with that was I knew a lot of these people going into the rehearsal process. Like, I performed with a lot of these people multiple times and I performed with a few people in the ensemble for the first time as well. But I knew, um, I knew their passion for Cats. I knew their passion for the arts already. I'm talking about the new people that I've performed with for the first time. So I already knew like it was going to be a well drawn out experience. I knew that all these people were going to give all their care, all their effort and all their passion, even in rehearsals. And once it came to show time, we really had to trust each other a lot because during the run, we actually did not have the full cast for the entire run.

I think we had the full cast twice for two performances, and that was during the final weekend. So we really had to stay on top of our own tracks while also looking out for each other, making sure that we're not like running over each other, that we're not, you know, that our certain, our position, certain choreography isn't getting muddled down or getting into someone else's space. So, um, we really had to like every performance, every performance before that, we would just go over like the Jellicle Ball. We would go over certain areas where if people were going to be absent that we had to like, fix on the fly. And those were actually instances where I think more trust was built as the run went on.

And then obviously, as the people came back, when we had the full cast for those two performances during the final weekend, we really had to readjust our spacing again, because then we had the full cast together. We had even more limited space because the Shawnee Playhouse stage is not, you know, not really that wide. It's not really that deep, especially when we had a platform that jutted out a little bit. So, um, it was definitely, it was definitely rough at points, but for the most part, it was very smooth. It was organic. All these people like gelled really well together, and it made for as smooth of an experience and as smooth of a run as you could possibly have.

[17:38] Michael Guerriere: Yeah. What's going to be your favorite memory from doing this? Like, what are you never going to forget about this experience? This is actually a very interesting one, because this is one that a lot of the people I talked to during, um, during the run was actually not really their favorite part, and that was actually getting to do the makeup.

[18:02] Michael Guerriere: Okay. The makeup for Cats, because, um, we actually weren't supplied diagrams as to how our specific characters were supposed to look. So, what Naomi did was she had a get together where she recorded herself, you know, giving tutorials about how to do the basics of the makeup, you know, having, you know, and this is how she experienced it when she was on Broadway. You know, having the white, like, on the forehead that kind of jutted down in a V, and then adding other base colors, and then contouring each side of the face with different, like, stripe patterns and spot patterns. And it was very rocky for myself, especially to start with. In fact, I have a photo where I had all these, like, black lines that kind of, like, weren't really refined.

They were kind of, like, bubbly, and I had, like, black lines that went down all the way across the nose. And this was during Tech Week, and after the first couple of rehearsals, I was like, okay, this isn't really getting the feel of Skimbleshanks, so I decided to not completely redo the makeup, but to take out some stuff and add new stuff in. And as the run went on, I got better and better and better at it, until I finally got a look that I felt like, okay, this is the look that I feel like Skimbleshanks should have, as far as like, my interpretation of the character goes. And I just stuck with it, and I actually got a lot of compliments for it. I got a compliment even from Naomi, uh, one performance.

Like, she saw my makeup, and she was like, wow, Michael, that looks really good. And that made me feel good, because before Cats, I have never done makeup to that scale in my entirety of my 20 years of performing.

[20:00] Michael Guerriere: Wow. Yeah, I mean, there's not that many shows, I think, that have that level of it, right? Unless you get into, like, a Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, you know, something where you do need that. How fast could you do it by the end? Like, usually I hear people, it takes, like, 20, 30 minutes, um, to do their makeup for the show, but, you know, you start getting quicker and quicker and quicker. What was your, your time pre-show, by the end of the run?

[20:18] Michael Guerriere: My time by the end of the run was actually an hour and a half, because I was so meticulous, because I was so meticulous. See, see right there? Perfect for, uh, Skimbleshanks being meticulous. Yeah. Um, so, what I did was, I actually did all my makeup via paintbrush. I never use sponges, uh, to, like, blend in. So, what I did was, I like, followed, followed, like, the lines on my forehead to where, like, a certain base color, uh, should go to until I hit the white, and then I used that to provide the outline for another base color, uh, to go on top of the first one, and then, of course, I, you know, powdered it in to make sure it stayed, and, um, so, that's, I bet I could do it, like, quicker by the end of the run.

I just didn't want to get sloppy. I just wanted it to be, you know, as good as it could be, and, um, there was a photo I actually have as well with the final, um, the final edition of the makeup that I put on for Skimbleshanks, and I did stripes. I did full stripes from, basically, the rear of my cheek all the way up until right about, like, where the cheekbone is kind of, like, halfway on an angle underneath my eye into my nose, um, and I wanted to make them long but thin because I felt like if I made them too thick, especially in a small space as the Shawnee Playhouse is, I felt like it was just going to be like too much contouring that it would just, you know, really distract, like, from my eyes. So, that's why I wanted to make them thin and pointy and, yeah, that's basically my gist of the story of how I did the makeup for Skimbleshanks.

[22:18] Michael Guerriere: I love it. Okay, let's do some rapid fire, um, because I want to get to the last questions because I'm really curious your take as someone who, you know, have really only, you know, didn't see the movies for a while and kind of just had this recent experience, but first question is, if you could go on for one character one night, which cat would you want to play?

[22:37] Michael Guerriere: Mungojerry.

[22:38] Michael Guerriere: Mungojerry, love it. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats from a personality standpoint? So, which one would you want to hang out with and which one would bug you? Favorite cat to hang out with?

[22:48] Michael Guerriere: I think what I really enjoyed about playing Skimbleshanks was the opportunity to explore his character in depth. I started to realize that Skimble had a little bit of a cheeky side to him, and that’s the thing I wanted to balance out along with his meticulous side.

[23:18] Michael Guerriere: The way he interacts with the other cats is really fun, and I found that it allowed me to bring a lot of personality to the role. I wanted to make sure that Skimbleshanks wasn't just a strict, by-the-book character but also someone who could have fun and be a bit playful.

[23:33] Michael Guerriere: One of the unique aspects of this production was the different interpretations of Grizabella each night. It was fascinating to see how each actress brought her own flair to the character, which in turn influenced my performance as Skimbleshanks.

[23:45] Michael Guerriere: I had to adjust my approach based on the energy and emotion that Grizabella brought to the stage. It created a dynamic that kept the performance fresh and exciting, not just for the audience but for us as performers as well.

[23:55] Michael Guerriere: Makeup was another significant part of my preparation for the role. I developed a routine that helped me get into character. I wanted to make sure that my look reflected Skimbleshanks' personality—meticulous yet a bit whimsical.

[24:05] Michael Guerriere: The trust and camaraderie built among the cast were essential. We all relied on each other to create a cohesive performance, and that bond made the experience even more rewarding.

[24:25] Michael Guerriere: Overcoming challenges during rehearsals was also a big part of the process. There were moments when things didn’t go as planned, but we learned to adapt and support one another, which ultimately strengthened our performances.

[24:35] Michael Guerriere: I have so many memorable moments from the production, but one that stands out was when I had to improvise during a scene. It was a bit nerve-wracking, but it ended up being one of the highlights of the show for me.

[24:45] Michael Guerriere: The makeup process was intricate, and I enjoyed every minute of it. It was a way for me to connect with Skimbleshanks before stepping on stage.

[24:55] Michael Guerriere: I also loved the quick changes we had to do backstage. It added an element of excitement and urgency to the performance, and it was a great way to bond with my fellow cast members.

[25:05] Michael Guerriere: Each night brought something new, and I cherished the opportunity to perform in such a beloved show. The energy from the audience was always palpable, and it motivated us to give our best.

[25:25] Michael Guerriere: I think what made this production special was the way we all came together as a team. Everyone brought their unique talents and perspectives, which enriched the overall experience.

[25:35] Michael Guerriere: I also appreciated the feedback we received from the director. It helped us refine our performances and really delve into our characters.

[25:45] Michael Guerriere: The collaborative spirit of the cast and crew was inspiring. It made the long hours of rehearsal feel worthwhile, knowing we were all working towards the same goal.

[25:55] Michael Guerriere: I think the audience could feel the chemistry between us on stage, and that connection made the performances even more impactful.

[26:05] Michael Guerriere: As we moved closer to opening night, I felt a mix of excitement and nerves. It was a thrilling experience to bring Skimbleshanks to life in front of an audience.

[26:15] Michael Guerriere: I also loved hearing the audience's reactions. It was rewarding to know that our hard work was resonating with them.

[26:25] Michael Guerriere: Each performance felt like a new adventure, and I was grateful for the opportunity to be part of such a legendary production.

[26:35] Michael Guerriere: I think the most important takeaway for me was the importance of collaboration and trust in the theater. It’s a team effort, and when everyone is on the same page, magic happens.

[26:45] Michael Guerriere: I look forward to carrying these lessons with me into future productions.

[26:55] Michael Guerriere: The experience has definitely deepened my appreciation for the craft and the community that surrounds it.

[27:05] Michael Guerriere: I can't wait to see where my journey in theater takes me next.

[27:15] Michael Guerriere: Thank you for having me on the podcast. It's been a pleasure sharing my experiences with you.

[27:25] Michael Guerriere: I hope listeners feel inspired to explore their own creative journeys, whether in theater or any other art form.

[27:35] Michael Guerriere: Remember, every performance is an opportunity to connect and share stories with others.

[27:45] Michael Guerriere: I encourage everyone to embrace their passions and take risks in their artistic endeavors.

[27:55] Michael Guerriere: Thank you again for this wonderful conversation.

[28:05] Michael Guerriere: I look forward to seeing what the future holds for all of us in the world of theater.

[28:15] Michael Guerriere: Let’s keep the spirit of creativity alive!

[28:25] Michael Guerriere: And don’t forget to check out the Shawnee Playhouse for upcoming productions.

[28:35] Michael Guerriere: It’s a fantastic place to experience live theater and support local artists.

[28:45] Michael Guerriere: Thank you for tuning in, and I hope to see you at the theater!

[28:55] Michael Guerriere: Until next time, keep dreaming and creating.

[29:05] Michael Guerriere: Bye for now!

[29:15] Michael Guerriere: Take care!

[29:25] Michael Guerriere: See you soon!

[29:35] Michael Guerriere: Stay inspired!

[29:45] Michael Guerriere: Keep shining!

[29:55] Michael Guerriere: Goodbye!

[30:05] Michael Guerriere: Thank you!

[30:15] Michael Guerriere: Appreciate it!

[30:25] Michael Guerriere: Cheers!

[30:35] Michael Guerriere: All the best!

[30:45] Michael Guerriere: Until next time!

[30:55] Michael Guerriere: Farewell!

[31:05] Michael Guerriere: Keep the magic alive!

[31:15] Michael Guerriere: Thank you for listening!

[31:25] Michael Guerriere: It’s been a joy!

[31:35] Michael Guerriere: Wishing you all the best!

[31:45] Michael Guerriere: Stay creative!

[31:55] Michael Guerriere: Bye!

[32:05] Michael Guerriere: Thank you!

[32:15] Michael Guerriere: Appreciate it!

[32:25] Michael Guerriere: Cheers!

[32:35] Michael Guerriere: All the best!

[32:45] Michael Guerriere: Until next time!

[32:55] Michael Guerriere: Farewell!

[33:05] Michael Guerriere: Keep the magic alive!

[33:15] Michael Guerriere: Thank you for listening!

[33:25] Michael Guerriere: It’s been a joy!

[33:35] Michael Guerriere: Wishing you all the best!

[33:45] Michael Guerriere: Stay creative!

[33:55] Michael Guerriere: Bye!

[34:05] Michael Guerriere: Thank you!