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[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of The Cat Sashaphy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was Rumpleteazer for many years on the West End production of Cats and also helped with Rumpleteazer vocals in the movie, so I'm excited to chat with her today. So welcome, Vikki Coote, and thank you for joining me.

[0:30] Vikki Coote: And thank you so much for having me and allowing me to recap some memories from like 30 years ago. I'm excited. You actually just kind of teased a main topic I want to talk about. So I'm going to actually just tease that now and hold it. But because I want to start with your cat's history, because you did the show in '94, I think is when you first went on. So this is predating the 1998 movie that a lot of people know that, you know, from the newer cast I've talked to. But it's been around for also over 10 years at this point. So what was your cat's introduction before being in the show?

[1:04] Vikki Coote: Before being in the show, I continuously played the CD in my bedroom. And I knew that Bonnie Langford had played Rumpleteazer because I went to a stage school in London called Italia Conti. And Bonnie went to the same school as me. And when hearing the recording, I was like, that's my part. I want that part so much. But actually, when I was cast in the show, I had never seen it. Never seen it. Okay.

[1:30] Vikki Coote: Never seen it. Because remember, there was no YouTube. You either went to see it, or you didn't see it. I had never, ever seen it.

[1:38] Mike Abrams: Okay. So what does the audition process look like from that? Because you know the music from the CD you said you're listening to or from the album. But you haven't seen the dance, you haven't seen the numbers. And then also the numbers were different back then, the Mungojerrie & Rumpleteazer shifted.

[1:54] Vikki Coote: Absolutely. So the audition process for me went like this. At the time, just before I auditioned, I was in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat at the Palladium. And I shared a dressing room with the lovely Beth Robson, who as the show was closing, was being asked to go back into Cats. Because in London, you could only do two years, and you had to leave. It was like a rule. And so she was going back in and she said to me, "Vikki, they're looking for a Rumpleteazer. I think it'd be really great." And I was like, "Okay, I'll audition. I've never seen the show, but I've listened to it loads. I'll audition." She was like, "I'll teach you the audition routine." So actually, I had to head up on the routine before I went.

[2:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. So two years. I did not know that rule because I knew there's that rule for the cruise lines. You can only do a year at a time because it's a cruise ship. I didn't know that you can only do two years on the London version, like the less than. You can only do two at a time and then they make you leave and then come back.

[2:48] Vikki Coote: I know it was different on Broadway. Yeah, but it was two years and you had to, you could come back, but you had to leave. And I don't know 100% what the reason was, but the rumor was that because of injuries and, you know, it's a physically demanding show. Just needed to take time out after.

[3:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah. They definitely didn't have that on Broadway because there were a couple people that went for a very long time on Broadway.

[3:10] Vikki Coote: Right. And well, hey, there was one guy who was the exception to the rule. Did you know that in London?

[3:14] Mike Abrams: No. Oh, you need to know this.

[3:18] Vikki Coote: Yeah. In London, when the show opened in 1981, there was a guy called Steve Wayne and he was dance captain on the show. And he's the only person who did the entire run, I believe. Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure he did the entire run. And they actually kind of made a part for him, kind of, they called him George. I don't know if that part exists.

[3:37] Mike Abrams: It does exist. Right. Okay. They called him George. And basically, he knew so many other parts. He was so useful to the show because he could jump in and out during the show of any choreography that needed to be covered or done in an emergency or anything. And he was there the whole time.

[4:00] Vikki Coote: It's like a super swing at that point. He was the London legend of Cats the musical.

[4:07] Mike Abrams: Oh, man. George has been renamed a couple times in other productions, but it's always an ensemble dance number character that they have in there every once in a while. But yeah, that's an incredible swing to an extreme story of being able to do it for every single track.

[4:19] Vikki Coote: Yeah. Is George the Rumpus Cat? Do you know?

[4:22] Mike Abrams: It depends on the production. Sometimes it's... I've seen George be named, I believe, the Buskus track every once in a while. And then I think there's times it's just George. It's kind of all over the place. But I have seen George in a Playbill.

[4:38] Vikki Coote: Yeah. Oh, cool. So there you go.

[4:40] Mike Abrams: Okay. So you auditioned. You had a ringer teaching you the audition before. So you went in and ready to go. And then you get this role and this is 1994. It's been on for a little while at this point. And you're coming in. But what I'm so excited to hear about is that you were doing what I always called the British version of Mungojerrie & Rumpleteazer, which I didn't know much about until the 2019 movie, which did that version. And then I knew the, I guess I'll call it the Broadway or the version that most places are doing now. But you were there during the switch.

[5:18] Vikki Coote: Yeah, absolutely. So when I went into the show, and I obviously had been listening to the CD in my bedroom, the version that I learned was "Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer, we're a notorious couple of cats." That's the version I went in. When we changed to the Broadway version, Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer, the one that you hear today, the London show, the show was still on, on every night. So we had rehearsals, I believe, for two weeks, because it wasn't just Mungo and Rumpel that changed. I believe we changed some bits in Peaks and Pollicles. And I think there were some other tap bits. Yeah, there were a few little changes. There was a change to the cockroaches tap and stuff. There were a few changes that came from Broadway, and then went into the London show. But the biggest change was our number.

[6:11] Vikki Coote: I'm not super musical, but I remember at the time, somebody saying it's going from a 4-4 time to a 9-8 time or something. So that was confusing in itself. And then the choreography changed and was tweaked, obviously, by Gilly herself. So at the time, my Mungojerrie was Ian Meason. So we were on at night doing the London old version and in the daytime working with Gilly to work out the new Broadway version. And in fact, it wasn't a blueprint of the Broadway version because Gilly altered it a little bit for Ian and I. And also, there were moments where she was like, "Vikki, you seem a little out of breath, so I'm going to switch that line and give that line to Mungo." And there were other times where she was like, "This bit of choreo doesn't make sense, so I'm going to take that line from Mungo and give that to Rumpel."

So in the nighttime, not only were we singing a different timing, we were singing different lyrics. The lyrics were different in both verses, same lyrics, but different parts, if you know what I mean. And then different choreography. And it literally got so—the whole reason was is that they did a royal kind of gala version for its 14th anniversary on, I believe, like the 11th of May in 1995 in front of Princess Margaret. And the night before the show changed and we did the royal gala performance, Gilly took me and Ian off of the show in London and said, "Put the understudies on because we need to work so hard all day today and all day tomorrow. And I feel like Vikki and Ian are just so confused with the changes." And so, yes, we were taken off the show for a night.

[7:53] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I can't even fathom. It's because it's not—it's different, but it's not that much different. And it's like, how—was it so difficult to do the show at night, having spent all day doing a different variation, but so similar?

[8:09] Vikki Coote: So during "Bustopher Jones," every night, Ian and I would have to go over the choreo and who sang what and the different tune of the London version so that before, literally during "Bustopher Jones," so that we could not forget what we were doing and not jump lines or, you know, whatever kind of thing. So yeah, it was really difficult. Gilly was amazing. And it was so fantastic to get to work with her and kind of like slightly recreate it and change it for London again. When I look back, it was an amazing experience.

[8:41] Mike Abrams: I can't even fathom. My mind barely works to be able to do one version of that. And I've always been fascinated by swings where, you know, like a Bombalurina and Demeter, and they'll go on opposite nights and do the reverse, but doing the same song with different variations and different timing and different choreography. I can't imagine practicing all day to do one and then going out to do the other one.

[9:04] Vikki Coote: Okay, well, here's another thing. Speaking of reverse, and this was nothing to do with Gilly changing the choreography, but at one point, I suffered with a bit of a shoulder injury from the cartwheel trick. Because as you go, obviously, one way with the cartwheel trick, as the girl goes over, you're kind of pulling with one shoulder, you're pulling the guy over. And I suffered with a bit of an injury. So Chrissy Cartwright suggested that we do the cartwheel trick the other way, because the injury just wasn't, it wasn't having time to heal. And Chrissy said at the time, and I don't know if this has happened in any other production or around the world. But at the time, she said, "Vikki, and whoever my Mungo was at the time, you are the first Mungo Rumpel to go the other way." So instead of going like, from kind of stage left to stage right, we went from stage right to stage left, I believe.

[9:51] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[9:52] Vikki Coote: I went, I did both ways. So yeah, I'm a reverse cartwheel girl.

[9:58] Mike Abrams: It's also, you know, like, this is where live theater is so interesting, too, because you think about all the thought and nuance that goes into where everyone is and all this stuff. And then you hear stories like this, where it's also like, well, yeah, your shoulders hurt. So we're just gonna have you go the other way, because that's the only way to make this work. And so there's like some element of that, which is where some of these like, I don't know if anybody's ever done it the other way. But now, if they do, maybe it's because you all did it that way first.

[10:23] Vikki Coote: I don't know. But when I injured my shoulder, it was during the show. And I did have to come off midway through the show. And our company manager said, "I need to take you straight now to A&E." Like in Waterloo, there was a hospital. And so he said, "Right, jump, get out of your costume and your wig, and we need to go like immediately. There's a taxi at stage door." So I came out of my costume and out of my wig, but I didn't take my makeup off. But of course, you don't realize. So I'm sat in the waiting room at A&E, and I turned to him, I say, "Why are people staring at me?" He's like, "Because you've actually still got your face."

[10:59] Mike Abrams: Wow. Yeah. That is the part of Cats. You hear a lot of like the two show days, you don't take everything off because it's just like not worth it. And so but you going to the hospital essentially to be seen. And yeah, you were definitely a sight for that group. They're all gonna remember that for the rest of their lives, I'm sure.

[11:25] Vikki Coote: Yeah. Probably.

[11:27] Mike Abrams: The other thing that I wanted to hear a little bit about is I know that I saw you posted on Instagram. You did a Vogue photo shoot during that run. And it had, you know, Andrew Lloyd Webber and everybody in it. So tell me about that experience.

[11:41] Vikki Coote: I mean, when I joined Cats, I was 19. And yeah, 19. I had my 21st birthday at Cats, which actually is another story.

[11:50] Mike Abrams: Okay, we'll come back to that.

[11:52] Vikki Coote: Yeah, we'll come back to that. But you know, when I look back now, oh my gosh, I was in Vogue. So it was on the set at the New London with all the creatives. I feel like it must have been around the time when we did the show for Princess Margaret that I've talked about where we changed bits. And I feel like it was around that time because all the creatives were in Trevor Nunn, Gillian Lynn, Andrew Lloyd Webber. And so there I am sat at Cameron Mackintosh's feet in Vogue just on the set, which was incredible. You know, the set at the New London that it revolved and stuff. It was pretty cool. And yeah, and there I am in Vogue. Like, yeah.

[12:29] Mike Abrams: Just in full Rumpleteazer.

[12:32] Vikki Coote: Just like, I remember when they were picking, I remember sort of hearing a little rumor backstage that, you know, there's a photo shoot and it's Vogue. And I was thinking, "Oh, it won't be me. It won't be me." And then they picked me and I was like, "Oh my God, it's me. Oh my God." And like, yeah. And I've kept that picture. I still have the actual, the original copy of the magazine at home in my office.

[12:50] Mike Abrams: That is amazing.

[12:51] Vikki Coote: I'm going to put it on Instagram because it's a really cool picture.

[12:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah, what a cool experience too. I mean, you're in the thick of things. I'm sure there's a lot of experiences happening at that time. But to have that, I mean, that's like a lifelong memory for sure.

[13:05] Vikki Coote: Yeah. And then I turned 21 and my birthday is New Year's Eve. And I think we did an early show. I feel like, you know, maybe it was like a five, six o'clock show, an earlier show. And they always used to do "Auld Lang Syne," the song at the end of the show on New Year's Eve at Cats. I don't know if you've heard that.

[13:22] Mike Abrams: I've never heard that, yeah.

[13:23] Vikki Coote: But they did it in London. So they said to the audience, you know, join us in singing "Auld Lang Syne." And it was our Tugger that kind of, you know, sort of introduced it and stuff. And then after we sang it, he was like, "And somebody special is turning 21 today." And he got the whole audience to sing "Happy Birthday" to me on my 21st birthday on the stage. So like, again, it was like a great moment. But when I look back now, I'm like, "Wow, how many people can say that a whole audience sang 'Happy Birthday' to them on their 21st birthday?"

[13:49] Vikki Coote: Yeah, not many.

[13:58] Vikki Coote: Incredible things that you'll never forget from that run in particular. Okay, I'll never forget Mungojerry's wig coming off.

[14:03] Mike Abrams: It just fully came off?

[14:07] Vikki Coote: Fully. I don't know what happened. I feel like he backflipped. He was one of our mungos. He was really great at crow and he backflipped. Clearly the wig hadn't been pinned or something. And up it went into like the upper circle and he had to chase up there and grab it.

[14:24] Mike Abrams: Wow. So it went flying.

[14:26] Vikki Coote: That was funny. I never forget finishing the ball and I was kind of right at the very edge because the seats, the edge of the stage and the seats were basically, there was maybe a few inches between. And looking there after dancing for, I don't know, how long is the Jellicle Ball maybe?

[14:44] Mike Abrams: 13 minutes or so.

[14:45] Vikki Coote: 13 minutes. And the guy is asleep. And he's asleep. So obviously in my true Rumpleteazer character, I just gave him a little boof, you know.

[14:53] Mike Abrams: Yeah, wake him up.

[14:55] Vikki Coote: Wake up, dude. And I think I took one of his Maltesers as well that were kind of starting to fall off the mat. I've just, you know, done this incredible choreography for 13 minutes. You cannot be asleep.

[15:09] Mike Abrams: In the front row after, yeah. I mean, one of the peak moments of the musical too.

[15:15] Vikki Coote: Yeah. One of my favorite, this is so strange, but one of my favorite moments of the show was standing in the wings for Flashing Eyes, waiting, and hearing the overture. There was something just wonderful about that overture. For me, the overture is, in any show, is one of the most exciting pieces of music, you know. And just standing there, I was always on, in the wing with Mistoffelees, me and Thomas Payton, we were in the wings. And just, we were one of the last to go out without Flashing Eyes. So I feel like that was like, so back in London, in the original cast, that would have been Bonnie Lankford and Wayne Sleep waiting together to go out.

[15:51] Mike Abrams: And yeah, that was always, we had fun in the wings waiting to go out. And yeah, that was good memories for me.

[15:59] Mike Abrams: Did you have any interesting interactions during the Green Eyes, Flashing Eyes part? Because I've heard some stories of like, scaring children and people, you know, like, did you ever run into any of that?

[16:13] Vikki Coote: I always took it as a great opportunity as Rumpel to take anybody's sweets. So, Weingarten's, Maltesers, whatever anyone had, I was like, I am taking those, like, having a few. No, not really from Flashing Eyes, I don't think.

[16:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I mean, it's a crazy show. And I'm sure you've heard lots of crazy stories. But being on stage with, surrounded by people who, you know, obviously, extremely well, but obviously, in makeup, and for cats, that people do look different. And obviously, and mid show, turning to your right and thinking to yourself, I don't think that Demeter is the Demeter I started this show with. And then it's kind of in the eyes like, wait, that's not Dawn, that's, you know, Beth or whoever. And literally, because on any other show I ever did, I've never had so many like changes mid show as you do, you know, of characters, which the audience sometimes probably would possibly not really pick up on, you know, probably not.

[17:15] Vikki Coote: Yeah, I think it's, it's, um, there's so much going on on stage during Cats at almost all times, except except for your song. And so that's kind of where I've always felt the, yeah, why people can go see it so many times, is because every time I've seen it, again, I pick up something new from one of, you know, any x character or y character that I just maybe wasn't focused on the first time, because there's just too much going on.

[17:43] Mike Abrams: Well, that's why I when I left the theater, the first time seeing the show, the song that was stuck in my head most was Mungo Jerry and Rumpelteazer. And it was because it was one, it's catchy song, but it was because it was the only time in pretty much the whole show that I had my only like my whole focus was on the two of them. And that's so different than the ball where almost everyone's out there. And like, almost every other moment, there's a lot of characters on stage. And you are by yourselves.

[18:12] Vikki Coote: Yeah, I do know what, like, I've never thought of that. But yeah, pretty cool, right? It was kind of the only sort of duet that yeah, no one Yeah, there was no one else on stage. Yeah.

[18:24] Mike Abrams: Hmm. Okay. What, um, what haven't I asked you about the London run that you were expecting to chat about on this show?

[18:31] Vikki Coote: What happened in the London run?

[18:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah, like, what, what, what questions have I not asked that you were like, I'm ready to talk about today? Before we get to the movie, because I want to have movie questions. Did you know that when the show closed in London, do you know much about what happened?

[18:49] Vikki Coote: So when the show closed in London, and I believe everybody I believe, because I was and that I'd ever performed in the show was invited back to take a curtain call.

[18:59] Mike Abrams: So the very last performance?

[19:01] Vikki Coote: Right. So I believe when did it close? It was like, oh, man, it's like 2002. Yeah. 21 years, right?

[19:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. So close in 2002. And so they live streamed a huge screen in Covent Garden, just underneath the Royal Opera House. And if you go back to 2002, which doesn't seem that long ago, but like to live stream what was happening in the theatre back then, it doesn't seem like a big deal now. But it was quite a big deal then.

[19:29] Mike Abrams: Well, so you everyone got to watch that, you know, a huge crowd was watching it. In fact, my then boyfriend, now husband was in that crowd watching it, because we were all invited to go back and take a curtain call. So basically, you know, the curtain call of Cats, every cat individually runs on and takes their bow or curtain call. So basically, what would happen is, so for me, the rumple teaser that was on that night, closing the show, ran on obviously in costume, and behind her in black cats, t shirts with the eyes on the back and the memory will live forever. And just kind of black leggings or whatever. And ran however many rumple teasers there were like maybe 11.

[20:13] Mike Abrams: All of you ran out. Wow.

[20:15] Vikki Coote: She ran on and in a line behind there were all the rest of us and we bowed and that happened for every character. And then there was this crazy mad party at the Wardorf Astoria Hotel afterwards, which Angeloid Webber had gone all out for because it was like being in a kind of rubbed a decorated kind of rubbish dumpy, but like every food cart looks kind of like, I don't know, say like maybe like a big old sort of box hamper thing and but inside would be all cakes and stuff and then there'd be a big old kind of tin of something like an old tin, but huge if you know everything was huge, but then inside there'd be loads of canapes and stuff.

[21:03] Mike Abrams: It was an incredible party and everybody that had ever been a part of the show was invited.

[21:08] Vikki Coote: It's like you had the largest Jellicle ball after the show.

[21:14] Mike Abrams: It was the best theater party I have. And I did a few opening nights in the West End, but that was a theater parties go. That one was incredible.

[21:18] Vikki Coote: Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's a, again, it was a legendary show, you know, time and went for so long and then so cool to have, you know, as many people coming back as you could have, like, that's what a room full of people of incredible performers.

[21:33] Vikki Coote: Yeah. Even in two years, I went, I think, I feel like I went through four mongos. I'm not quite sure how that happened.

[21:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Well, like you said, a lot of injuries and a lot of like challenging choreography and just per show in general. I mean, you are out there dancing almost the whole time.

[21:49] Vikki Coote: Yeah. I didn't cover anyone. I just played.

[21:53] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Just rumble.

[21:58] Vikki Coote: Yeah. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died.

[22:05] Mike Abrams: Okay. I want to talk about the 2019 movie because I saw that you did some additional vocals for that.

[22:09] Vikki Coote: So the 1998, the, it was the 1998 movie. I'm sorry.

[22:09] Vikki Coote: The film that was filmed on the stage at the Adelphi theater in London. So they filmed it on stage at the Adelphi, which is not where cats was in London. So it was like, they, they set up, you know, set it all up in a completely different theater. At the time I was in another Angeloid Weber musical and was actually like playing the lead. I was an alternate to the lead role of swallow and whistle down the wind.

[22:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[22:38] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It played in London for like three years.

[22:47] Vikki Coote: So being part of the film wasn't an option for me, whether I would have been able to, but I didn't audition or it wasn't an option. However, when the film was made, I just got a call from my agent and they said, Andrew has picked a few of you. It wasn't just me, a few of you to come back and rerecord some of the vocals for the film for authenticity.

[23:05] Mike Abrams: So he wanted Mungo and Rumpel to be Londoners, like actual real people.

[23:15] Vikki Coote: Oh, interesting. Yeah. I believe I'm pretty sure that the, the girl in the film who was awesome, absolutely awesome. I believe that she's from Scotland, like she was Scottish. So although had a, you know, a brilliant London accent, he wanted, you know, authentic and the same for Skimbleshanks. A Skimble came in to record and I believe a Jemima came in to record as well. It was me and a Mungo Joey. And it was amazing.

[23:44] Vikki Coote: So we went into a little recording studio in London and they had a huge screen with the film on. So I was watching a version of whoever was in the film, forgive me, I can't remember their names, but playing Mungo and Rumpel. And the difficult thing about it was, is that when their mouths opened and closed, I had to work my vocals with, with her mouth open and closing, which was actually quite tricky because some little kind of, I don't know, like little kind of giggles or like, or intonations I'd put in the vocals. I had to really change to what she, you know, was doing. But it was incredible.

[24:25] Vikki Coote: So I got there, Andrew was in there and explained all about what we were going to do and everything. And he said to me, I love cats. And I said, yes, I, I had an amazing time on the show. You know, it's amazing. And he took a little keyboard that I can only describe as probably the smallest little, I mean, if you saw it, you just say like, it was like a, it wasn't even like a child's one, just a little black and white keyboard. And he went, yeah, my favorite thing is the overture. And he sat there and just went on the keyboard. And I was absolutely mesmerized. I was like, I feel like I'm having a dream, some kind of out of body experience. Andrew literally sat there playing it right in front of me. It was, it was amazing.

[25:12] Vikki Coote: And then I don't, I don't really know what happened about when the film went into production and who's, because there was a, like I say, a lady in for Jemima, a guy in for Skimbleshanks and me in a Mungo. I don't really know. We are credited as our voices, but I feel like maybe the original actors went back in and redid some stuff as well. So yeah.

[25:36] Mike Abrams: A little bit of all. I did look it up. It was Jo Gibb.

[25:42] Vikki Coote: Oh yeah, she was wonderful. Yes. And you're right, it's Scottish. So yeah.

[25:46] Vikki Coote: She did the London production as well, the West End production too as a swing and then also as Rumpleteazer in 96 and 97, it looks like.

[25:53] Mike Abrams: Wow. Wow. Okay.

[25:54] Vikki Coote: Oh, so quite soon after.

[25:57] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[25:58] Vikki Coote: Yeah. So she, she probably was doing it right before. I know that the, for the 1998 movie, they, they pulled some people from Broadway, some people from London, because it wasn't just like a pro shot, like they actually filmed a movie. So they did pull them out of the show for a little bit to do that.

[26:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely.

[26:10] Vikki Coote: Amazing. Okay. That's such a cool story. What also again, an unforgettable experience. You had some very, very memorable, unforgettable experiences of these just like cool life things that are happening that, that weren't just on stage, you know, like there's, there's obviously doing the job and having the, you know, going on stage and being part of the, an incredible show, but to be able to do Vogue and then hear Andrew in a recording studio playing on a keyboard, the overture, like to all these other things that you get to do as part of it.

[26:42] Mike Abrams: Working all dilly and changing.

[26:45] Vikki Coote: I mean, the time I just took it all in my stride. Like I say, I was 19 when I joined the show and 21 when I left. But as I look back now, 30 years later, I'm like, wow, I had an amazing, amazing experience.

[27:01] Vikki Coote: Yeah, it was amazing. And it's really nice that I'm teaching now in a performing arts college. And actually one, I haven't, I've only been there for a couple of years, but one of last year's graduates, he got an audition for Cats on the Royal Caribbean when I was teaching there. And he was like, Vicky, Vicky, would you, you know, kind of help me out with some, you know, like some ideas on the choreo and, you know, what kind of thing? I said to him, do you know what? I said, if I was going to cast you in Cats, the track I'd probably say you would definitely be right for would be Carbucketee. I don't, I don't, do they call it?

[27:35] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[27:36] Vikki Coote: Yeah. Carbucketee, first cover Mustaf, and that's sometimes that track is second cover Mungo, or the other way around, you know, cover Mungo, cover Mustaf. And he was like, oh, well, and anyway, he auditioned, he auditioned, went back, went back. And then one day he ran in the room and went, Vicky, Vicky, I got Carbucketee, first cover Mustaf, second cover Mungo. I was like, oh my god, that's amazing.

[27:57] Vikki Coote: So yeah, to pass that on and to have had that dream fulfilled for me being in the show and then to pass that on to somebody else was pretty like a full circle moment, you know?

[28:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Do you teach any of Cats in your courses what you're doing?

[28:16] Vikki Coote: They have had a look at it, yeah. And in fact, within the college, there's a few of us. We've got another, I believe we've got a Jemima, who was a Jemima. We've got a Buster, we've got a Gus, we've got, yeah, we've got a few of the, like the faculty, the teachers who have all kind of done the show. You're going to do a faculty production at some point.

[28:35] Mike Abrams: How funny would that be? On our group chat at the moment, because Les Mis is doing its 40 years, pictures of half the faculty, you know, like in the shows and stuff, yeah.

[28:46] Vikki Coote: Yeah, that's fun. Okay, I've got to ask one before we get to the rapid fire. I've got to ask a theory question, because I'm fascinated by the relationships characters play. And I, you know, you obviously did this, it was a while ago. So I don't know how level of depth you got into the relationship between Mungojerry and Rumpleteazer. So how did you play it? Were they, I've heard brother, sister, I've heard dating, I've heard best friends, like there's a lot of variations. Did you all have a deep discussion on how you were going to play that relationship?

[29:19] Vikki Coote: That's a really interesting question for me, because I did have four Mungojerries in my time. Three of them were friendships. One was like a real bestie friendship. So the guy Ian, who I changed Mungo Rumple in London with, we were like two peas in a pod and pretty inseparable. In fact, that was like a real brother, sister. But one of the Mungojerries was after the show, a five year relationship for me. So yeah.

[29:52] Mike Abrams: But did you think about that? Because there is discussions every once in a while about what is this duo? And did you have conversations about that? Or was it just kind of depending on the person that you had that you were performing with?

[30:03] Vikki Coote: I think it depended on the person that I was performing with and what our relationship sort of was off stage. And then that became part of the Mungo Rumple relationship on stage. What I found really interesting about Rumpleteazer is that her three words are naughty, effervescent and impressionable. Well, they're three words that my personality, I wouldn't describe myself as any of them. I was not naughty. I was the good girl at school. I am the good girl. I'm not naughty. Effervescent, maybe that's the one that's closest because I am quite a kind of upbeat, bubbly, kind of, you know, fizzy kind of personality. So maybe that one, but definitely not impressionable. But I loved, that's why I loved playing Rumpleteazer, because I loved being naughty because I'm not.

And I love kind of, you know, that real sort of like impressionable, you know, being sort of, you know, following Mungojerry around and thinking he was the best thing since sliced bread and just, you know, just that kind of, and the whole effervescent kind of just being so up, you know, sparking and upbeat on stage and, you know, physical within the show. So playing her was really, really good fun for me, really good fun.

[31:19] Vikki Coote: And the relationships that I had on stage for me really did depend on the relationships I was having off stage as well, as in my best, one of my best friends was etc. And so Rumple and etc. also on stage had lots of kitten fun, you know, moments when we were allowed to be that way kind of thing.

[31:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's cool to hear that, because that's the way I've always felt. It seems like that's what the answer has been in a lot of cases. But it's also like the fans who've seen variations of the show across many countries and many things. Some of them have their opinions on like, no, they're supposed to be this. And I'm like, well, I think it just depends on the two people that day, you know, like, there's not, they're not all spoken, and they're not all written. So you can have that variation of where it can be like, okay, we are two dating cats or two together cats, or it could just be like, we're we are more family. And it doesn't really change the number, but it kind of makes a slightly different tweak on maybe the way you look at them or the way you, you know, you move towards them.

[32:22] Vikki Coote: No, 100% does. And you know what, knowing the show so well, and having done it for so long, I feel like I could go now and watch a production and I could work out from what was going on a stage who was friends or backstage or, you know, what?

[32:32] Mike Abrams: Yeah, definitely.

[32:37] Vikki Coote: Yeah, there's a lot of scope within the show. Although there's, you know, all the choreography, there is a lot of scope for your own interpretations of that character. So there was moments where you could, you know, fight, I would find etc. And we would have a little, you know, cute moment together because we were besties off stage as well.

[32:50] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah. I love it. Okay, let's do some rapid fire, because I want to get to the important question. If you could go on one night, any cat, who would you want to play?

[32:59] Vikki Coote: Okay, so I have had dreams since leaving the show that I get called back to in and do it. And especially 30 years on, I'm like, I don't think I'd make it through the genital. But in my dreams, if I could make it, I definitely be Victoria.

[33:10] Mike Abrams: Victoria. Yeah, I love it. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats from a personality standpoint? So which one would you like to hang out with? And which one would bug you?

[33:17] Vikki Coote: Oh, wow. Okay. Um, that's interesting. I always loved Skimbleshanks, the railway cat. And I love trains. Both my grandpa, both my granddads, and we're train drivers. So I love trains. And so I love Skimbleshanks. And I love the whole thing. I thought it was so clever of, you know, building the train for parts of the set and everything. So I feel like, yeah, Skimbleshanks was one of my favorite characters.

[33:47] Vikki Coote: What was it? My least favorite?

[33:52] Mike Abrams: Yeah, which one would bug you personality wise?

[33:52] Vikki Coote: I feel like Cassandra would bug me a little bit because she's so sort of, you know, kind of a bit closed off and if you know what I mean. And I wasn't a fan of Macavity because as well, even as a person, I don't like anything scary. Like I don't watch horrors. I don't like scary things. And Macavity was like that kind of scary character. So yeah, me.

[34:13] Mike Abrams: Did you play Mungo and Rump or at all involved with Macavity? Or were you just, like, because there could be some, there is a version where that's the storyline.

[34:23] Vikki Coote: That's interesting because I didn't play Rumpel like that. I played Rumpel very young. Obviously, I was very young. And just if Mungo says do it, I'll do it. But very scared of Macavity.

[34:34] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[34:35] Vikki Coote: Such a young kitten. Yeah. I was probably very scared of what I was actually doing if I really thought about it. But I played her a bit kind of like, you know, a bit sort of dumb, like, oh, okay, I'll come in here and bug all this place. If you say it, I'll come on in.

[34:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah. What's your favorite song from the show?

[34:51] Vikki Coote: Oh, well, hey, The Overture. Is that a song?

[34:55] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah. I think so.

[34:56] Vikki Coote: I'm going with The Overture. It gives me goosebumps.

[35:00] Mike Abrams: And then I always ask one that's kind of different. So you're as a teacher and working, like, which cat do you think would be the best teacher?

[35:08] Vikki Coote: Oh, that's a really interesting question. Okay. I feel like either Skimbleshanks.

[35:18] Vikki Coote: Or maybe I would go for, like, Jenny Any Dots, maybe?

[35:24] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's in the lyrics.

[35:26] Vikki Coote: Yeah. Or for the musical theater teacher, maybe Gus, because he had very much experience, right, of the theater. I mean, the theater is my happy place. And I feel like, yeah, being able to teach now, and if any of my students, well, one has, but if any more, you know, get to perform in Cats, then it's a dream show. It really is.

[35:50] Mike Abrams: This whole show centers around the debate that I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So I want to hear you, Vikki, who's your Jellicle choice and why?

[36:00] Vikki Coote: Okay, here it is. My Jellicle choice is not Grizabella.

[36:05] Mike Abrams: Amazing.

[36:06] Vikki Coote: Because for me, like, I mean, I don't know if she dies, right? I never really thought that much into it. I'm like, okay, she goes on a, you know, tire and goes up into the dried ice and stuff. But where did she go? Right?

[36:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[36:18] Vikki Coote: Cats have nine lives. I'm not sure about that. But for me, you know, we all accept her, you know, or Jute says, oh, it's okay. And she comes along. And I feel like Rumpel always did want to accept her because she'll just, if Mungo says, then she will. And I just feel like, you know, give her a chance. And then we send her up on a tire. Like, I don't think she should go. I feel like I wanted to spend some time with her. And in fact, her song, Memories, is my favorite song in the show. So not Grizabella for me. I think I would send Macavity. Because like I've said, I don't like scary things. And I found him scary. And I feel like he gave Demita way too much anxiety. And we just don't need those bad negative vibes on it on stage. So I say, send Macavity up to the dry ice.

[36:59] Mike Abrams: I like it.

[37:01] Vikki Coote: Yeah. So your whole, your argument is not who needs it, not who's worthy. It's like, let's just get this guy out of here.

[37:05] Mike Abrams: Yeah, he's too scary.

[37:11] Vikki Coote: I have no arguments on that. I like that a lot. I think there's, Macavity is clearly vying for it. That is, I think, part of Macavity's story is wanting to be the choice.

[37:24] Mike Abrams: I think so. Yeah, he's putting himself out for it, right?

[37:27] Vikki Coote: Yeah. So I think you're, yeah, you're going to reward him.

[37:29] Mike Abrams: If there's a chance, pop him up there, I think.

[37:32] Vikki Coote: I think it's, I love hearing you say that like, you as Rumpel, Teaser, really wanted to spend some time with Grizabella. Because that's the part I struggle with her leaving. It's like, you just welcomed her back. And then it's like, no, you're just going to send her away.

[37:42] Mike Abrams: Who is this wonderful woman who comes down and was there and doing it all and singing? Who is she? And I was intrigued by her and kind of fascinated. And I think, yeah, I would want to have spent time with her and given her a chance, definitely.

[38:04] Mike Abrams: Awesome. A non-Grizabella vote is a positive vote in my book.

[38:11] Vikki Coote: I'm ready to add.

[38:12] Mike Abrams: It was amazing.

[38:13] Vikki Coote: Oh, that's the thing. I have no issue with Grizabella's story and the performance and memory is always an incredibly powerful moment. I don't want her to leave. I think she should stay.

[38:29] Mike Abrams: No, maybe Cats 2 could be all about Grizabella. Hey, did you hear there's some kind of Broadway revival-y?

[38:35] Vikki Coote: Oh, yeah.

[38:36] Mike Abrams: Did you see the YouTube trailer?

[38:37] Vikki Coote: I did. It came out. So when we're recording this, this will be out a little bit later, but when we recorded it, it came out yesterday, I believe. And I did see it. I did a lot of stuff with them last year when they were at the Perlman Performing Arts Center, and I'm very excited for their transfer. So yeah, a lot of the cast from last summer is also transferring. So I'm so excited for them. If you can get over here to see it, it is incredible. I cannot wait to see what they do.

[39:05] Mike Abrams: Let's hope Griz gets reborn and has her moment.

[39:08] Vikki Coote: Their story is a little different with the way they portray it. And so their Grizabella, that story, actually, I kind of joked with the directors when I first saw it. And when I talked to them after, I was like, it actually makes it a little bit harder to argue against Grizabella, because it's not a death. It's not like it's actually feels like it's going back out into the world from the ballroom scene. So it's like, it feels more natural. And it's like, there's not another choice. The Gus character also is very much helping send her versus wanting to go himself.

[39:41] Mike Abrams: Right.

[39:41] Vikki Coote: So it's incredible. They just got their theater announced. They just got their preview date. They have most of the cast announced. There's going to be more coming. It is spectacular. It's so well done.

[39:55] Mike Abrams: Wow. The memory will live forever.

[39:57] Vikki Coote: Yep. And then in a new version, they're also not in cast costumes. It is a different version, but also at the same time, the same. And so that's what's really cool about it.

[40:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah, super cool.

[40:07] Vikki Coote: Awesome. Well, how can people stay in touch with you on stuff in your life and things you're working on and other things?

[40:13] Vikki Coote: Well, I didn't have Instagram, although I'm not the generation that was born with Instagram, but I've got with it. And so I think I'm just at Vicky Coote.

[40:22] Mike Abrams: Okay, we'll tag it too. So we'll put it in the notes.

[40:24] Vikki Coote: Perfect. Thank you. And thank you for letting me live the memories of 30 years ago.

[40:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[40:31] Vikki Coote: It's really good fun.

[40:31] Mike Abrams: So fun to have you on and hear the story and to hear the change story. I mean, I didn't know the original production that well until I heard the album. And so to hear how you all went through that change is a really cool piece of the Cats history.

[40:48] Vikki Coote: So later now, you have to go home, play the original London version, then play the Broadway version, and then realize what my life was for three weeks. It was crazy.

[41:00] Vikki Coote: Yeah, I have the two albums. This morning, I listened to a couple non-theater albums. And then I listened to music when I work a lot of times at home. And I listened to a few non-theater albums. And then I listened to Evita. And then I listened to the Japanese album for Cats that I have, which is also kind of a fun, just has a different sound to it in a way. So yeah, that was my morning gearing up for this.

[41:28] Mike Abrams: Good morning to me.

[41:30] Vikki Coote: Can't complain. Well, this was so fun. Again, thank you so much for coming on.

[41:34] Vikki Coote: Oh, thanks, Mike.

[41:35] Mike Abrams: And thanks, everyone, for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Cats' history. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any of us list podcast. Follow us on social media at thewrongcatdied.com or check our website at thewrongcatdied.com.