This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have a very exciting guest. She is an actress, comedian, singer, and recently crowned RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars 10 winner. She was hosting a North American tour of Hocus Pocus Live, and I've been told has strong opinions about cats and musicals, so I'm very excited. So welcome, the iconic Ginger Minj, and thank you for joining me.

[0:40] Ginger Minj: Well, thank you. I'm happy to join. I do have a lot of strong opinions on both the musical and the animal.

[0:45] Mike Abrams: Well, let's start there. So I always like to hear with the beginning of your cat's journey, because mine was recent. I never saw the musical until 2016. So I didn't know nothing about this musical until recently. I guess the past, you know, it's almost 10 years now, but this show's been going on for about six. So when was the first time you saw Cats the musical?

[1:09] Ginger Minj: I remember the first Cats thing I ever saw was I was watching PBS when I was little, and they had that commercial that would run over and over and over for their filmed Broadway production of Cats. And I just remember seeing Rum Tum Tugger in his codpiece and Big Fur Mane gyrating on PBS while they were asking me to donate money for a VHS on a tote bag.

[1:35] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Did you order the VHS?

[1:37] Ginger Minj: Of course I did. I wanted to see more of that codpiece and Fur Mane.

[1:41] Mike Abrams: Okay. So your introduction was the commercial for the 1998 movie.

[1:47] Ginger Minj: Mm-hmm.

[1:48] Mike Abrams: And that was, I can only imagine you sitting watching on, you know, this is years ago and you're watching it and you're getting it served on PBS.

[1:56] Ginger Minj: Yeah. I was a child and I was like, I love musical theater and I love outrageous costumes. I don't understand what is happening. So maybe if I get the VHS and watch it, I'll have context and then I'll understand what's happening. I did not. I did not. I still, to this day, do not understand what the hell is happening.

[2:15] Mike Abrams: Okay. So I can answer that question for you, but what is your interpretation? I mean, what was that first viewing like as, I would assume that you're got to be young still at this point watching this chaotic musical.

[2:24] Ginger Minj: I was. I mean, I had to be in my early teens at this point. I was born in 84. So yeah, I mean, I was probably like 13, 14, maybe 15. Doubt it. I don't know. I just, I thought that nothing was happening and also everything in the world was also happening at the same time. It seemed like an allegory for life and death and being chosen. I just, I never really got it. I still don't get it. And then I remember seeing that it was based on the T.S. Eliot book. I was like, well, maybe if I get the book and read that I'll have more context.

[3:04] Ginger Minj: It doesn't help you.

[3:04] Mike Abrams: No, no. That was actually less helpful than just trying to figure it out on my own.

[3:10] Ginger Minj: I love that we had the same journey, but it just, I did it in my, you know, late twenties, early thirties of the, cause that was the first time I saw it. And I read, I got the book, same thing. I read the book. And the craziest part to me is, is that the book didn't help, but the main, Grizabella, the main, you know, the main song at the end, that poem's not in the book. And so they've kind of built this character around a story. And the rumor is T.S. Eliot said it was too scary for children. And so that's why it didn't make the book. But that's what they, you know, center a lot of the story around, which is, I think, a very crazy part that this kind of like kids heavy musical that a lot of children go to is based around the character that the writer thought was too scary for children.

[3:53] Ginger Minj: So did T.S. Eliot actually write that character and not put it into the book?

[3:57] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So that story, Grizabella, the Glamour Cat was a poem that I think his wife or his widow found after he died and they shared that. And that was kind of the genesis of how they kind of piece that in with the rest of the book.

[4:09] Ginger Minj: Well, at least that makes a little more sense because I felt like it was just, you know, created out of whole cloth for the musical.

[4:17] Mike Abrams: Totally. I mean, it's, it's an eighties mega musical. It was created with some other support, I believe, probably at that moment in time. There's no way that that creativity was just natural in my opinion.

[4:29] Ginger Minj: Yeah. Well, maybe, maybe natural.

[4:32] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[4:34] Ginger Minj: No, I agree. And then of course, I never saw the original Broadway production and all the years that it ran in person. So whenever the Broadway revival came around, the last one, I was like, well, let me go see, because as much as I don't really get into cats, I, I was like, maybe I'll just understand it a little bit more if it's happening. And if not, at least it'll be a great spectacle. And then I got there and it was like a bunch of inflatables. It looked like a giant bounce house full of people in cat costumes that were falling apart.

[5:04] Ginger Minj: So did you see the, the tour or the Broadway revival, like on Broadway?

[5:08] Mike Abrams: I saw it on Broadway and I don't remember a whole lot about it because I know that I fell asleep during it. I didn't feel like it would, this is not like to say anything about the performers, because the performers in that show from the beginning until now are always exceptionally talented. You have to be so, so good in order to do all the things they need you to do. But I felt production wise, I was like, this isn't even as good as the video that I used to watch. And I still do not understand what is going on.

[5:39] Ginger Minj: Yeah. So did you see Leona Lewis? Was it kind of in the beginning when she was the Grizabella? Do you remember?

[5:45] Mike Abrams: I don't remember, to be completely honest with you. I mean, it didn't last very long. It did probably, it was 2016 till probably 18 or 19.

[5:58] Ginger Minj: Did it last that long?

[5:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it did. I think it did about two, two and a half years.

[6:03] Ginger Minj: Oh, wow.

[6:03] Mike Abrams: And then it went on tour. And it went on tour for, well, it started on tour and then COVID hit, and then it went back on tour for two more years in the US after.

[6:12] Ginger Minj: Well, I learned something every day.

[6:14] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. So I want to go back though, too, because I am fascinated by seeing it and, and the Bounce Castle, I've always joked that there is an inflatable set that they use. I thought it was just on the tour, but it might have been the Broadway one. And I've always called it the Bounce Castle set. So the fact that you said that also is hilarious.

[6:31] Ginger Minj: But I want to go back to that first VHS viewing. Did you gravitate towards a certain character besides Tugger? Because obviously you had that, you know, the Rum Tum Tugger was the reason you ordered the, you know, the DVD?

[6:43] Ginger Minj: Well, the Rum Tum Tugger made me a very curious cat, to be completely honest. I love Magical Mr. Mistoffelees. I think that's still probably the best number in the show, but I love a villain. So Macavity was always, like, it for me. Once I saw the show, I was like, this is, like, the piece of the show that really draws me in.

[7:05] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. What was, like, how would you describe it to somebody now? If you were, they're going to go see it in some regional house, you've now been exposed to it. How would you, like, what is your story of cats?

[7:18] Ginger Minj: My story of cats now is, it's just a bunch of cats who meet up in a junkyard and tell you about their life and what's going on. Do we understand it? No, but we don't have to because we're not cats.

[7:30] Mike Abrams: Okay. And then they decide to pick one at the end.

[7:35] Ginger Minj: Exactly. Okay. I love this.

[7:38] Ginger Minj: It's like an episode of RuPaul's Drag Race. You know, there's a lot of people there. Some of them have very furry backs. Most of them pretend to dance, and there's some cat fights. And then at the end, one is chosen and everybody else is upset.

[7:53] Mike Abrams: So, one of the reasons I was really excited to talk to you about this is because I do think there is a parallel with RuPaul's Drag Race. Because when I first saw it, I saw Leona Lewis, and I immediately thought X Factor. And I do think there's a competition level to this show. So, could we, like, how would you incorporate, like, could we incorporate more cats into RuPaul's Drag Race? Like, is that a possibility for the future?

[8:20] Ginger Minj: Now, I know in UK, they did a whole cats-based musical challenge. What is it, Rats, the musical?

[8:28] Mike Abrams: Rats. I don't think I saw that.

[8:29] Ginger Minj: I think it was the second season of Drag Race UK. I think it was. But yeah, it was all parodies of musical numbers from cats, where they were all rats. And then the lip-sync for your life at the end was to memory. Which actually turned out to be a really beautiful lip-sync.

[8:50] Ginger Minj: I remember listening to the spoilers when they came out and went, oh, this is going to go one of two ways. It's either going to be iconically good or iconically bad. It was iconically good. It was really good. But yeah, I mean, there is a competition aspect to it. And at the end, only one can be chosen. So I think that that does kind of parallel all reality competitions, particularly Drag Race, because you're doing it with dance numbers.

[9:16] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Did you get a chance to see the Jellicle Ball, the kind of newer version that happened this past summer that's transferring to Broadway?

[9:26] Ginger Minj: I did not see it, but my boyfriend went to see it and said that it was just the best thing he's ever seen. He also loves cats as an animal. Cats are his favorite thing in the world. So he's always loved the musical. But he did say that he understood what was happening a lot better in Jellicle Ball, and that all of the choices that were made seemed very smart and very specific.

[9:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I was asking because for anybody that I know that went to the Jellicle Ball, especially if they're like, I'm not really sure the plot, they did a really good job of adding the ballroom element to tell the plot and kind of took some of the cat's costumes out of it and made it more human elements from the ballroom. Which I love. I love that. I also love when you can take something that everybody thinks they know and completely reinvent it in a way that makes it more accessible to what's going on today.

[10:25] Mike Abrams: If you were reinventing cats, how would you reinvent it?

[10:28] Ginger Minj: See, I've always wanted to just press play on the soundtrack recording and dump a bunch of real cats on stage as an immersive production, just to kind of see what happens.

[10:38] Mike Abrams: I mean, I think you could do that. You know, you just get 30, 40 cats, put them on there. And then, yeah, I mean, we could definitely, we can make that happen.

[10:47] Ginger Minj: Yeah. All we have to do is turn the bass up so it vibrates them enough that they're on edge.

[10:52] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I think, well, I mean, cats are already on edge, right? Or they're, I guess they're either completely on edge or they don't care at all.

[10:58] Ginger Minj: At all. Yeah.

[10:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Do you think we would still get the story if we did that? Like, would we get any elements of them or were they just kind of like plopped down and just sit in the spotlight?

[11:05] Ginger Minj: Well, I don't know, because I would probably understand it as much as I always have.

[11:14] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. I want to talk about the chaotic cats movie, though. Did you go in to December of 2019 Christmas and go see that movie?

[11:20] Ginger Minj: No, I did not. Honestly, I don't know why I didn't go see it in the movie theater. I try to see every musical because I think the more we can support musical movies, the more we're likely to get. But there was a reason why I didn't go. And then, of course, all the reviews started trickling out and all the spoilers. And I'm like, I don't know that I could sit in public and watch this. And especially me, I don't do any kind of marijuana. So like, if I'm going to be completely sober through this, I don't know if I'm going to make it. So I waited until the pandemic. I had nothing else to do. We all gathered around in the living room.

[12:01] Ginger Minj: It's like an episode of RuPaul's Drag Race. You know there's a lot of people there. Some of them have very furry backs. Most of them pretend to dance and there's some cat fights. And then at the end one is chosen and everybody else is upset.

[12:31] Ginger Minj: Yeah. It's a very ensemble-based show. Hare's the same way, where you're following through. And I think part of what makes Cats unique from watching it live is you could watch a different cat at any moment and you're going to get a different part of the story. And you can't do that in a movie unless you just zoom out and let them kind of do their thing. So they were pointing us to where they thought we should look. And I think that's what kind of hurt a little bit in the sense of, I like to just, I really just wanted them to, I just want to see a wide angle shot of all those dancers doing that movie.

[15:01] Mike Abrams: Yeah, absolutely. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. Okay. I've made you talk about cats enough. We'll come back to some cats that are rapid fire at the end, but I want to talk about the year you've had and some of the stuff that you have coming up next year. Because I mean, you've done a lot this year with obviously your win with All Stars 10, Hocus Pocus Live, you got new songs out. I spent all morning listening to everything on Spotify of yours, which was fun to, kind of a fun, I was working today and it was great to have on the background. I enjoyed the Defying Gravity and Fabulous Baby and a couple other songs here.

[17:03] Ginger Minj: Thank you. Let's start with Hocus Pocus Live because that was such a, I mean, we're just after Halloween. So we're recording this just after that point, but that's a classic movie. And I know such a fun story for you to kind of share a little bit about. I'm sure you've talked a lot about it on this press tour, but tell me a little bit about kind of what your favorite moments of doing that tour was. Well, I mean, I was nine years old when the movie came out. It was, yeah, 93 is when it came out. I was born in 84, so nine. And it came out in the summer. It came out in July. And not a lot of people remember that, but we didn't have a whole lot of money when I was growing up. So we always had to wait for the movie to go to the dollar theater, which was down the street from the house.

So by October, it was in the dollar theater and I would take my allowance and ride my bike over there and just watch it over and over and over again. Because I love Halloween. I love dressing up, obviously. And I love like spooky season, but I don't love horror. So it felt like it was finally just the right amount of scary with like glitter and musical numbers peppered in that I really was attached to it.

[18:14] Ginger Minj: So flash forward all these years later, I did Dumplin' on Netflix for Ann Fletcher, who ended up directing Hocus Pocus 2. So she had called me and she said, I know you're such a huge fan. I would love to include you in this somehow. So grab a couple of your drag race sisters, come in and do this film with us. We spent two and a half weeks in Newport, Rhode Island shooting overnights with Bette and Kathy and Sarah. And we learned so much just by watching them. I always say that Bette Midler has become my accidental drag mother, because the last shot that we did of our entire two and a half weeks was probably four or five in the morning. The last day it's freezing outside and it's my close up.

And they tried to cheat it. They were like, all right, we're just going to set up here and get it and then we'll be done. And Bette Midler said, no, no, bring the monitor. So they bring the monitor over and she looks around on the monitor. She goes, those lights are wrong. They need to go over there. The camera needs to come from this angle and then push up this way. We'll be in the trailer. And she grabs my hand and walks me off. And as we're walking off, she goes, I'm not always going to be around to look for these things. You need to start looking for them yourself. I was like, oh, OK, thank you, mother. And we sat for an hour in the trailer together, just like chit chatting about life and career while they set everything else up.

And she said, I've seen a lot of drag queens playing me as this character, but I really like the way that you do it, because I feel like you get the nuance of it. You've seen me do it in person. So I see you picking up little things. I want you to do something with it. And I said, well, what? And she said, I don't know, a fucking show or something. I can't figure everything out. And that's probably the most Bette Midler as Winifred Sanderson moment I could ever have.

[20:01] Ginger Minj: So I just thought about it like over and over. I'm like, well, what am I going to do? And then it dawned on me, I can do a show, but I don't want to do what's already been done. I don't want to retell the same story. I don't want to tell the story of Hocus Pocus 2. What would happen if these girls came back for one more night and they have to put on some kind of rock concert in the middle of trying to stay alive forever? So the show grew from there, the concept of it, and it's become literally like a rock concert. We have this giant kabuki screen that the story of how we come back is projected on it. Then there's the silhouette of us and then it drops and we're in place. And those people scream and shout and stomp their feet and clap their hands from the second we make our appearance to the end of I Put a Spell on You two and a half hours later.

My favorite thing about that show is just seeing how much these characters resonate with people all these years later. We had to find these characters. It was a flop when it came out. And Bette and Sarah and Kathy, they made a point to tell the three of us doing these drag versions of them in the movie, you know, thank you so much. It's the drag artists who have kept these characters alive for all these decades. So it's not something we ever take lightly. You know, we always know that there's people really, really love these girls and we can't let up on that. We can't just walk through it or go through the motions. We have to really live in it. And being surrounded by Jujubee and Sephira and also Landon Sider as Billy Butcherson, it was just fun. It's fun and the energy coming from the stage into the audience and vice versa is like nothing else I've ever experienced.

[22:01] Mike Abrams: That's, I wish I could have saw it. I just, it's one of those things where I'm like, as I read everything about it, and as I watched all the clips, I could find everything I could. I was like, this is great.

[22:09] Ginger Minj: Well, it's coming back. It's coming back bigger and better next year.

[22:12] Mike Abrams: That was going to be my next question. I loved, so I saw obviously the movie when it came out, same thing, because I think we're fairly close in age. So same type of thing.

[22:21] Ginger Minj: I'm 41.

[22:22] Mike Abrams: Okay. So I'm, I'm late thirties. And I, it was the, it was the same thing of like, this is not really horror. It's got some comedy. But then I went, they did a 30 year, they brought it back to theaters a couple of years ago. And I had more fun going to see it on a big screen in a theater around Halloween for that. And just was like, I forgot how great this movie is. I almost forgot how much fun it is. And it's so visually beautiful. That movie is just stunningly shot. And I think the second one looks really beautiful as well. And I was, luckily enough, since I was part of the film, I got to go to two premiere screenings. So I got to see part two on the big screen, which made it a lot more impressive and immersive and satisfying.

[23:10] Ginger Minj: Yeah. I'm sure seeing the outcome after being so involved in the like, the day-to-day and making of it, it's like, you see how the sausage is made and then you get to go see the final output. It's got to be one of the coolest experiences.

[23:22] Ginger Minj: Well, yeah. I mean, because like one of the coolest moments ever was, I think our second to last day, maybe early on the last day of our two and a half weeks, I was standing with Cornbread and Kimura on the lawn while the three witches flew over the crowd. And like in that moment, I was nine years old again. We're all holding hands and just like sobbing because it's magical, even though we can look up and we see the green screens and the wires and everything. So to see that in person and then see like what it actually looked at, like looked like in the movie, it was just so fulfilling.

[24:04] Mike Abrams: I'm going to put in the description for everybody the link because if it's coming back, I'll put in the link for when you announce your new dates and where you're going because I think it'll be great for next year. I also want to hear a little bit about, you just released Fabulous Baby from Sister Act, and then I also listened to a bunch else. How do you decide what you're going to publish and produce and sing and put out there for the world?

[24:28] Ginger Minj: Well, I'm a musical theater brat. I don't remember a time not being on stage. Like I said, we didn't have a whole lot of money when I was growing up. So the cheapest and safest babysitting my mom could find was to volunteer me at the community theater to play babies. So at six months old, I was the baby in Fiddler on the Roof. And then once the theater had me, they were like, "Oh, well, we can put a baby in this show. We can put a baby in that show." So I literally grew up in the spotlight, which is so weird because I am such a shy person outside of character, whether it's drag or a musical theater role or whatever. I am very shy and I don't like a lot of attention, but I have never felt safer or more comfortable than in a spotlight center.

So growing up like that, of course, as so often does, it led to me discovering drag through theater where I was like, "Oh, I finally have a chance to produce, costume, act, direct and play all of these roles that were off limits to me before. I can just be and do anything that I want to do." So I did. I started doing just all the musical theater roles that I had been told no for or just had no shot in hell at getting beforehand. And then as I drifted more into the professional drag world, the Broadway kind of had to take a backseat because it wasn't super marketable. And especially on a platform like RuPaul's Drag Race, you have to be a little more all-encompassing and not so niche, especially back when I started Drag Race 11 years ago, it was its own specific type of drag.

And then now that I'm 41 years old, I lost 200 pounds this year. I feel healthier and more spry and more beautiful and happier than I've ever been. I feel a lot more centered in my being cosmically. And I felt like now was the perfect time to remarry my drag with my musical theater roots. So I'm releasing an EP called Ginger Minj The Broadway. And I wanted to put songs on there that mean something to me. So, of course, Defying Gravity was the first single we released at the end of the season. And Fabulous Baby, we just released a couple of days ago. And it's one of those songs I put on every time I'm getting into drag because she's telling this story of like, "I know I'm amazing. And I have tried to show all of you and tell all of you that I'm amazing.

But you keep telling me I'm not. But I don't need you to tell me that I am because I know that I have what it takes to be a star." And particularly with a lot of the not my fan base, but the Drag Race general fan base, there's been a lot of negativity over the years. And I have felt like no matter what I do, sometimes, more than a lot of other queens, I feel like I end up under a microscope. And everything that I do gets dissected and torn apart. Particularly after I won, there was a lot of discourse about that, which, you know, on one hand is disheartening. On the other hand, it's like, "Yay, talk about me because no publicity is bad publicity." But when I started listening to Fabulous Baby over and over again, I was like, "I don't need you to love what I've done because I love what I've done.

And I love who I've become. And I know how much I have to offer the world." So that's why that song was like really important for me to put on this album. And then there's some other fabulous ones that are coming down the pike.

[28:08] Mike Abrams: Now, as I say, can you tease any of what's coming for the next song?

[28:14] Ginger Minj: There is no Cats on this go around. But there is. Oh, God, I want to tell you all of them. But there's some classic Broadway, like some good big belty show tunes. There's also some more modern hits on there. And I couldn't do a Broadway album without putting a little bit of fun time in there.

[28:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah, of course. Of course. Okay. Well, we'll just have to wait for the full drop. And I can't wait. And then I know you have a film coming out. So are you how much are you allowed to share about the film next year that's called Stop That Train?

[28:46] Ginger Minj: It stars Jujubee and myself. We are the stars of the movie alongside RuPaul. And it's good. It's good. And I'm telling you that because as somebody who did the Christmas movie How the Bitch Stole Christmas for VH1 a couple years ago, and went into that knowing it was never going to be great, like it was gonna be fun. But it was what it was supposed to be for what it was, you know what I mean? It was kind of Cats, you know, for what it was, yeah, it was fun. But going into this one, I didn't have, I won't say the highest expectations, because I always do projects where I feel like the benefit's going to be there. But I didn't know how good it was going to be. We stepped on set for the first day in our costumes on these gorgeous practical sets, directed by Adam Shankman, choreographed by Jamal Sims.

Salvador Perez, who did the costumes for Hocus Pocus 2, was our costumer for this film. And his eye for detail is just like, chef's kiss. It is so gorgeous. So like visually, the movie is already incredible. Jujubee and I did all of our own stunts. It is a disaster movie, a funny disaster movie, a la Barb and Star meet Airplane. But yeah, we did all of our own stunts. And they were intense. They were grueling. But it's really good. It's really, really, really good. And it comes out May 29th.

[30:19] Mike Abrams: May 29th. Okay, we'll also link the website there so people can see where it's playing near them.

[30:27] Ginger Minj: Jujubee and I have decided this is the spiritual threequel to Wicked. This is part three. This is the Wizard of Oz, basically.

[30:32] Mike Abrams: On a train.

[30:41] Ginger Minj: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If that's what gets people in, let's do it. We're holding space for it.

[30:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah, holding space. Exactly. Someone has to come in and you have to defend you and Jujubee because of the partnership like Cynthia and I.

[30:56] Ginger Minj: Oh, we've already made the pact that when we go on this press tour, I'm wearing pink, she's wearing green, and we're holding space for everything.

[31:00] Mike Abrams: Damn it. Just lean into, yeah, do every single thing that they did there and try to get a little parody of that.

[31:07] Ginger Minj: Okay, let's go into some cat rapid fire here to close this out. So if you could play any character in Cats for one night, who do you want to perform?

[31:19] Ginger Minj: I want to be Rum Tum Tugger. Tugger. Bring it back to the PBS days. It was my first love of Cats was Rum Tum Tugger. And I feel like it's the only role that I'm ever like, "Oh God, I just want to sing that song. I just want to dance around in that costume."

[31:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah, of course. I mean, it's such a great moment in the song. It's early in the musical. It's so fun to kind of get to do whatever he wants. I do think it's one of the few characters that gets a little bit more freedom to like mess with the audience and kind of like they kind of have a lot of freedom in the role. So it has to be one of the most it has to be. And I have never seen a bad Rum Tum Tugger.

[31:56] Ginger Minj: No, they've always been great.

[32:03] Mike Abrams: Of course. They're always great. Do you have a favorite and least favorite character in Cats?

[32:08] Ginger Minj: I don't really love Gus the Theater Cat. I don't. I don't love it. I don't dislike any of them. But I think of like the moments in the show that I find to be a little snoozy. I think that whole segment just doesn't really speak to me, which is weird because I love theater. But I think that whole, I think it could have been a lot more, you know. And who do I really, really love? Oh, Macavity. Yeah, I just love Macavity as a villain. I think just a spectacular villain.

[32:39] Mike Abrams: I got in trouble on one of the recent recordings because my hot take for the show was I thought the beginning of Act Two can be slow if it's, you know, kind of comes in and that's the best part and the moments of happiness. And it's beautiful, but it's like you just come off of that massive dance number to end Act One and, you know, Grizabella singing the like parts. And everybody's been drinking their $40 cup of wine and eating their $27 M&M's. And they're tired. They don't want to start off slow. They want to start off with a bang. So I think that's also why I agree. It just doesn't speak to me because it is, it's slow. It's hard to ramp back up into whatever plot there is. You got to get to Macavity and Skimbleshanks and Mistoffelees. It comes together at the end, though, in that stretch.

[33:26] Mike Abrams: Favorite song in the show?

[33:28] Ginger Minj: My favorite song is probably Mistoffelees.

[33:32] Mike Abrams: Yeah, Mistoffelees. Okay. And then if you could have any cat be in like a drag queen, like which one would you want to transform into a drag queen?

[33:39] Ginger Minj: I think Grizabella is screaming to be a drag queen. She's so dramatic.

[33:48] Mike Abrams: I could see it. Totally.

[33:49] Ginger Minj: Her coat. She's got the runny mascara. And she just is so dramatic every time she hits the stage. And what drag queen doesn't want a great death scene? You know, like, just, oh, just yeah, fainting on her chaise. Yeah, definitely Grizabella.

[34:07] Mike Abrams: Okay, okay. And then my million dollar question, I ask every way this because this is what this show centers around, but I didn't think Grizabella should be picked at the end of the musical to be sacrificed. So I want to know who's your jovial choice and why?

[34:21] Ginger Minj: Oh, I don't know. How about Mr. Mistoffelees, so he could resurrect because he's so magical.

[34:29] Mike Abrams: I love it. Yeah, any vote that's not Grizabella, I'm not going to argue with you. I just think it would be fun, almost like in the vein of Pippin, where they have the whole magic trick where, you know, he has the option to step into the magic box and see what happens. Well, what if he did step in and the trick worked and he came back?

[34:49] Ginger Minj: It comes back to that. Yeah. So, and the other thing is Mistoffelees in the Jellicle Ball version actually received the most votes for everyone that was in that production. So I think there's a lot of credence to that. All right. Well, this has been so fun. I loved hearing about what you, you know, all the stuff you've accomplished and all the things you have coming up, and then obviously having some fun with your Cats lore and history. So we'll link out the movie and Hocus Pocus Live, but how can people stay in touch with you on social media and all those ways?

[35:19] Ginger Minj: Oh, yes. Follow me on all platforms. It's easiest just to go to gingerminj.com. That's M-I-N-G-E. Don't go to M-I-N-G-E. That is a very different website and you're probably not going to like it. So go to gingerminj.com. You could follow everything.

[35:39] Mike Abrams: Amazing. Well, this has been so fun to chat with you today. Thank you for coming on and sharing all this fun stories and experiences.

[35:43] Ginger Minj: Thanks for having me. I had a good time.

[35:47] Mike Abrams: Awesome. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Cats Ashby. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any of us on this podcast. Follow us on social media at TheWrongCatDied or check our website at thewrongcatdied.com.