This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:16] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have an amazing guest. It was at the 2024 BroadwayCon that this guest came up to me and told me about the Broadway Theatre of Pitman, New Jersey's production of Cats that was happening, and I was very fortunate to see it this past November. So he was the director for the production and has a very personal tie to Cats that I cannot wait to discuss. So welcome, Tyler Daddario, and thank you for joining me.

[0:41] Tyler Daddario: Hi, Mike. I'm so happy to be here.

[0:43] Mike Abrams: I know. This is almost exactly a year from when this, because I think BroadwayCon was January or February. We're recording this in January. This will come out probably January or February. And I remember when you came up, it was such kind of a fun thing where I was talking with the pack people, and you were like, yeah, I have this production happening. And at that point, I was still trying to convince Coaster Cats, and I had just heard about the Circus Cats. And I was like, man, Cats is everywhere this year. But it was so long down the road. It wasn't until October, November. So I want to get into that kind of piece. But before I got to start, I got to know, because I know it was in the playbill, a little bit about your connection to the show. So let's start. I know your Cats history goes long before this production.

[1:27] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, absolutely. So my Cats history actually starts back when I was like four or five years old. I had and I've heard a couple of other people on the podcast, also a big fan of the podcast. So I got to say that the podcast definitely inspired our production. I've heard a couple other people on the pod sort of say that the Barney's Big Adventure VHS was what kickstarted their Cats. And so that's actually the same thing for me. It was a trailer on the VHS of Barney's Big Adventure. And from the time I was like four or five, I was obsessed with that trailer. And so from that trailer, the history gets a little fuzzy because I was four or five. But it's something like I saw it on PBS. We went to the local video store and got the VHS.

We rented it so many times that I got my own copy of it. I burned through that VHS. I got a second VHS and then DVDs came out. I got a DVD, wrecked that. Like it just we were obsessed with Cats. And so what I started to do was I would act out the characters in front of the TV screen. I would stack up VHS and I had all these little McDonald's toys and I would act out Cats in front of the screen with these little toys. I would make my family watch it. I'd get upset if they started to watch the movie and not me, not the little stage that I had set up. And then from there, I realized that I could actually just do it myself. And so me and my little brother and my grandpop used to get dressed up and it started really minor with just like rubber bands in our hair and like whiskers drawn on our face.

But like through the years, I started to learn more about theater and about how effects worked. And so I had fog machines and strobe lights and Christmas lights. And we basically built the set of Cats in my grandparents' basement with all the stuff that I could find in their basement and the stuff we could find in craft stores. And we would act out the show and make my grandmom come down and watch it. My nana, I call her. And so we would just watch the we would have her watch the show. And yeah, it was a blast. And so eventually I found out that you can do theater not in your grandparents' basement, that professionally.

[3:51] Tyler Daddario: Yes. And so I started to do community theater from there and the rest is history. It was Cats that sort of inspired it all. And now I work in my free time as a director and lighting designer and I work full time as a producer. So it's pretty cool.

[4:00] Mike Abrams: Incredible. How old were you when you I mean, you said you start at four or five, but I'm envisioning there was a guy on TikTok that did the entire Phantom with Legos recently that kind of went super viral. And I'm like, this is what you were doing just at your grandparents' house with McDonald's toys and stuff. So, you know, there's still time to do a figurine Cats. I messaged that guy telling him that if he's doing Phantom, Cats is next. But how old were you when you started getting like a fog machine and started doing it in the basement? Like, was this still really young or was this like you get into an age where you're teens now to where you have a little bit more ability to produce it, per se?

[4:34] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, no, this is like nine, 10, 11 years old that I've got. I've got like three fog machines down there and strobe lights and black lights. And I'm making costumes out of old socks and T-shirts and making sure that we have the leg warmers and arm warmers. So I was I was pretty young building this stuff and, you know, building this set and having my pop-up rig up a tire to the ceiling so that we can lift the tire up with a rope.

[5:03] Mike Abrams: Incredible. Yeah. Who did you perform as and who did you let like other family members be?

[5:08] Tyler Daddario: So naturally, my pop-up was always Old Deuteronomy and that was his track.

[5:13] Mike Abrams: And did he do Gus?

[5:14] Tyler Daddario: He had to do Gus, right? No, I got to play.

[5:16] Mike Abrams: Oh, you did. I got to play.

[5:17] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. There were only three of us. So we doubled a lot. But yeah, but I normally played MonkaStrap. MonkaStrap was always my favorite growing up. So I played MonkaStrap and then I would jump in and out of other things. My brother always played Skimbleshanks and Mr. Mistoffelees.

[5:32] Mike Abrams: Oh, awesome. Awesome. OK, do you have any videos of these? Like, did you do any home videos?

[5:34] Tyler Daddario: Absolutely.

[5:37] Mike Abrams: How are these not on the Internet? How have you not posted any of these?

[5:40] Tyler Daddario: Fortunately, we can't figure out how to do that yet. So we can only plug the camera into the TV.

[5:47] Mike Abrams: I got you. We will chat after this because I spent an entire month digitizing stuff in my parents' house. And so I've got some ideas for you so you can share this with the world.

[6:00] Tyler Daddario: That would be amazing.

[6:01] Mike Abrams: OK, so that is obviously that's the intro. And then when did you start kind of at Pitman and at the Broadway theater doing this, you know, more professionally? Like this is the nine and ten year old Cats. This is now the adult putting it on for paying audience Cats. Like what is that in between look like?

[6:20] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, for sure. So eventually I saw Cats on stage, right? Cats came to Philly and then I saw it again at Washington Township High School, which is in New Jersey. They had a touring production that came through and sat down at the high school performing arts performance, which is pretty cool. And then I later saw it at Dutch Apple Dinner Theater, which was like Mark Robbins production from the full end. It was his first version of Cats. I started to realize they're seeing these Cats and other shows that like, oh, wait, this is actually something I can do professionally. So I in high school, I got more involved doing production side of things, being the student director, working on the AV crew, things like that.

And I eventually went to a writer university where I studied theater and arts administration. And so from there, I worked in Disney World for a little bit. I did the Disney College program. I worked at a theater called the Leibowitz Theater down in Millville, New Jersey, where I was their education director. And eventually that landed me at what was then called the Kimmel Center. It's now called Ensemble Arts Philly. And I worked in their education department for a bit and then moved over to their programming team, which does producing. So it was sort of this really nonlinear path to doing production work and producing work. But it's been really joyful in terms of Pittman. My high school teacher actually directs it, Pittman.

He does a show every year. And just after Covid, he was like, hey, we got to get this guy involved here. And so I came on and I stage managed the production. And then they needed an associate director on their production of Elf. So I came on and did that. And then from there, I just do a show every season. So I've done The Little Mermaid. I directed Kinky Boots. I'm doing I just did Cats and I'm doing Freaky Friday next season. I just stay involved with the community at Pittman. It's a great group of people who I love very dearly. They're good friends of mine. And of course, we get to put on shows together, which is just an absolute blast.

[8:19] Mike Abrams: Yeah, a very fun town, historic building. I mean, just a cool place. I'm sure a lot of people have listened to this, have never been to Pittman, New Jersey. I hadn't until you all were like, hey, come. And I was like, I'm absolutely will be there. And it's not far from, you know, from New York where I am. But you obviously how much say do you have in picking that show? Is it like what does that look like? Because you obviously knew the Cats part was coming. And this has been, I'm assuming, a dream of yours for forever. Is there a you have to be able to get the rights for certain times? Is it like because it feels like Cats is all over the place right now?

[8:54] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. Yeah. So actually, it was when we were directing The Little Mermaid or when I was directing The Little Mermaid, my choreographer, Heather, who's also the artistic director, noticed that I was carrying the Cats bag that I got at the Museum of Broadway every day. And she was like, Cats, huh? I was like, no, you don't understand. I love Cats. I love Cats. And she's like, no way. OK, I'm going to keep that in mind. Our general manager wants us to do Cats at some point in the future. And I was like, done, I'm in. And so it's just for lack of better word, it was this sort of chase of like cat and mouse, figuring out when we would finally be able to do Cats. And so fortunately, we got the rights fairly quickly after they came out.

It was the national tour was still going around. So as soon as the national tour closed, the US national tour, they released the rights to all the different regional houses and eventually the amateur and community groups too. And so we were able to scoop them up and do the show.

[10:00] Mike Abrams: That's so fun. Yeah, I mean, it's I assumed it was based on the tour because it was touring and then all of a sudden it was like the tour ended and just everywhere did it and like quickly, too. So it's like everyone's been waiting for it, which is fun, too, because it's been cool to see all the different productions and seeing all the different ways people have approached it, because it's such a big show. It's such a technically, you know, choreography is difficult. Like it's not an easy show for someone to just kind of quickly put on. So let's talk about that, though, because you, again, knew about it for what, almost a year, at least, you know, more than six, seven months before you actually start the rehearsal process.

So you like walk me through that journey. Like we talked to Broadway Con. You start auditions probably a couple of months before you start rehearsals. You only have a certain amount of time to put everything up before you go on stage and you did four or five weekends worth of shows. So it's a pretty unique process, I think, at least unique for me is like it maybe is very common in the, you know, the regional theater world. But in the sense of like this is a lot to do in a very short period of time and also a very extended period of time. Right. Right. Yeah. I think what was interesting about working on Cats is that it's not like any other show that any of us have worked on. And we learned that very quickly throughout the process.

It is its own beast in just about every way in the way that the show itself is structured. You know, like everybody's on stage the entire time that the costuming is super unique to the show. The way that you have to rehearse the show is super unique in that there's a ton of choreography. There's a ton of music to learn. And the direction of the show, the true like storytelling moments of the show sort of come more towards the back end of the process because you're front loading all of this material. So what we did in the way that we structured the process was we started off with like learning the history of the show. So I did this whole presentation on the history of the show. And fortunately, I'd had this backlog of like 20 years of being a nerd about it.

But in that like year leading up to the show, I did more deep dive research as an adult. I went in and was like, you know, learning how the creative team originally developed the show, how what like the London production and the Broadway original Broadway productions looked like, how they were received and then how the show changed throughout the years. We did that presentation. We like played trivia as a cast. And the person who won trivia got like a copy of Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats, which was pretty fun.

[12:47] Tyler Daddario: That was Nina. I had to be Nina, right?

[12:48] Mike Abrams: No, no, really?

[12:51] Tyler Daddario: I think it was Aiden who played Tumble Brutus in our production.

[12:55] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I'm going to give her a hard time. I thought for sure she would have won.

[13:00] Tyler Daddario: If I remember right, I think she was in second or third. She was in top five for fair. She knows a lot. Yes.

[13:05] Mike Abrams: OK. Yeah. And Aiden won. Yeah. And so from there, we started to do some cat improv at the end of that first rehearsal. At that next rehearsal, I presented our story of Cats of sort of what I thought that our production story would look like. And we did three words. I used some of the original three words, but created a lot of new three words just based on who I thought that the cats were and the relationships that I wanted them to have. And so we spent like a good like hour and a half to two hours navigating the story. The cast was so into it. We were they were just so into it. It was really fun just to answer their questions and to get to just kind of geek out about Cats in front of a room of people.

And then from there, we did more cat improv and introduced the movement vocabulary for our production. So that was that looked like me walking around the room with a rattle in moments and them reacting to sounds as a cat would. They sort of navigated crawling, walking around on all fours, interacting with each other, sleeping, waking up, stretching all of those different things that that real cats do. And then from there, we like jumped into material and we had to start teaching the show pretty immediately. So we did music and choreo. It was pretty fast and furious getting the show up. But it was really fun. There were a lot of challenges along the way with it, just because it is so much material, like as a creative team, we were even struggling keeping up with, you know, coming up with new material, coming in and teaching it because we only rehearse four days a week for the process. And we're only rehearsing in the evening since it's all like the other thing that all of us do. And so it was challenging getting all that material together.

[15:01] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, you had a bunch of writer students, which now makes more sense, given your writer connection. So, yeah, it's not everyone's full time job. Like they're doing this on top of it, like as a second thing, like you said. I want to go back to the story, though. So what did you tell them? And like, what did you what were your maybe tweaks or changes that you that you add to where you had different three words or different kind of relationships that maybe aren't the I would say aren't the norm, but like there is no norm because there's so much that's debated within the cast community that I feel like that all of it's kind of up for interpretation.

[15:28] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, sure. So in the way that I approach this whole production, I was like, I want this to be the Cats that 11-year-old Tyler would want to see. So I like you made a show for yourself.

[15:40] Tyler Daddario: I did. I did. But I did that because I thought that if there were kids in the audience, I would capture their attention and maybe have them fall in love with the show in the same way that I did. And then I also knew that if kids were into it, then adults might be able to, like, say, I don't understand why are they all cats? And they might be able to ignore that thought pattern and just be like, wow, this is really beautiful. And I'm feeling something even if I don't understand why I'm feeling it.

[16:07] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[16:10] Tyler Daddario: And so I just leaned into the spirit and the feel of the show. In terms of the story, though, obviously, the 1998 version of the show very much inspired me. And but legally, we can't do that, right? We can't just do like the 1998 version of the show. So I basically went through song by song and explained what happened in the story to the cast. And so obviously, you know, we followed the traditional version of the story. You know, the Jellicle Cats meet once a year and, you know, they make this Jellicle choice. But what I fleshed out more was specifically I wanted to make more sense about why Cillabub and Victoria were so important to this story. And so we added a couple of moments in the show where Cillabub and Victoria listened to Grizabella more.

And so during the act one memory at the end, we had Cillabub and Victoria pop out so that there's more of a reason why Cillabub stands up at the end to sing with Grizabella. And there's more of a moment why and more of a reason why Victoria is the first one to touch Grizabella.

[17:13] Mike Abrams: Are you playing it as daughter? You know, because like I know I think Mark did that. And a couple other productions have tied that relationship to Grizabella a little bit more in depth within the show.

[17:25] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, we didn't play it as daughter. We did play it like it was Victoria and Cillabub's first time coming to the Jellicle ball, that this was their very first ball, that they didn't know anybody. And then they very quickly sort of got scooped up by Electra and et cetera, who had been to the Jellicle ball a few times. And so they sort of became this like pot of kittens throughout the evening. So that's that was sort of how we framed the Cillabub Victoria connection. And Electra and et cetera, there's very little about them online. Like they're in the 1998. And so those were two cats where I had to create three words for them. And that was fun to come up with those. There were some three words that I didn't agree with or that like were definitely created in 1982 and are no longer the OK way to say some things.

So like specifically around like Bumble Arena, I changed the words. I think the word was voluptuous. And I was like, I'm not going to say that we're going to play flirty or like something like that instead.

[18:28] Mike Abrams: Yeah. What other relationships did you like between the cast? Did you tell them is like these have to be true? What relationships have to be true?

[18:31] Tyler Daddario: I think that I didn't want to play Rum Tum Tugger and Mistoffelees as a couple. I know that that's been a hot thing throughout the years.

[18:49] Mike Abrams: That's the fan fiction, I think.

[18:51] Tyler Daddario: Actual like I don't think that's coming from any direction necessarily from any creative team or it's just that's something that a lot of fans like. And I think that's what I told the cast. And I also I told them what Jacob Brent shared about how it also has to do with the offstage relationships of a lot of Tuggers and Mistoffelees, too.

[19:10] Mike Abrams: I yeah, I wanted to play it that MonkaStrap and Rum Tum Tugger were Old Deuteronomy's sons. And the way that we played it in ours, because I thought that it added more wonder and magic to it is that Mistoffelees is also his son, but doesn't know that. And so with that in mind, we played Tugger and Mistoffelees as brothers. So that's why we didn't want to go into the romantic side of things. That was the one thing that I knew that I wanted to be true. From there. A lot of the story work we did as a cast, so I presented what I wanted. Some of them had listened to the podcast and had some other theories and thoughts. And so then I sort of curtailed those thoughts like Gus and Jellylorum being grandfather and daughter.

We played that that way just because Kate, who played Jellylorum, brought that up in the room. And we were like, yeah, no, you know what? We really like that idea. We're going to go with that. Mongo, Jerry and Rumpelteazer being Jenny Annie Dots kids. That was something that like we came up with in the room and or something that we had heard and we liked. So we applied that to our production. But I think the Old Deuteronomy Tugger, Mistoffelees, MonkaStrap thing is the one that we have to do, right? Like you didn't because he's not in that brotherhood.

[20:29] Tyler Daddario: No. So we played Macavity open ended. I sort of just let everybody pick what they thought Macavity was to the tribe. I basically told the cast, hey, Macavity did this bad thing. Fill in the blank, because I wanted to leave that, like he is the mystery cat after all, right?

[20:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I thought that the more we left a little undone, the more they might be able to play with.

[20:54] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. OK, that's there. So, I mean, there's just so much always going to it. I mean, the I would be curious to know, like now that you did it, this is like a dream from Barney childhood. Right. Now that you've done it, if you were to do it again, obviously not like next year, but in a year or two, what are things that you were like, oh, this is great or this is like I have to I want to change this next time because it didn't go well necessarily, but because more of the like this would be a fun tweak now having been through the whole process.

[21:27] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, that's a hard question. I think that there's a few little things that I would tweak. This is a silly one, but like when the boot falls on this stage, the I realized that the audience didn't really understand that the cats were like put off by the boot. And so it wasn't until like the fourth weekend that I realized, oh, wait, if they had a bigger reaction to this boot, then the audience would be like, wait, that boot wasn't supposed to fall. So there were like little moments like that that I say I caught on to just because I got to watch every performance and I got to hear the audience response. I just realized that there were things that we could make clear and in what was happening on stage.

I think the other thing that I realized I sort of missed in the process was explaining exactly why the Heaviside Layer, why the Russell Hotel and why we're going past the Jellicle Moon, like why she's ascending. Obviously, we you know, they know that she's dying. The cast knew all of that. But just like to pack the meaning behind all of that, that was one thing that as we got towards the end of the process, we were moving so quickly that we like lost some context for why that's important, why it was the Russell Hotel in terms of it being like the hotel room or that or the hotel that T.S. Eliot looked at from his office as he was like writing that little fragment of the poem. So just to like even pack more meaning into it.

I realize, though, that if I had like eight hour rehearsal days with them, this stuff would have happened. It was literally because it was a condensed process that, you know, there were these little things that slipped through the cracks.

[23:01] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. You mentioned audience. So when you're thinking about a house like you are, like a regional audience house where I was kind of surrounded by the gamut where I was sitting, I had people that were Cats knowledgeable and fans. And I had people that's like, we come to everything that this place puts on and we have no idea what we're watching. So how much do you like think about that, especially with the show is confusing as Cats? It's not Elf. Elf is pretty straightforward, right? Cats is not. I had to give the people around me at intermission a rundown of what was happening because they were very confused. And again, I people have disagreements on if they should be confused or not.

I did love Nina called out very early on. It's like it's right in the beginning of the first song, you know, like exactly what we're doing. Exactly. So it's, you know, it is a lot. So how much do you think about that? Of how much do you need to try to feed the audience that doesn't know enough about Cats or how much is it just we're putting this on the way we want to put it on and we might have some people walk out confused and that's OK?

[24:06] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, I accepted pretty early on that we were doing Cats and that there were going to be people that were that were going to be confused about it. But I did try my best to make it as clear as possible for this audience, because this audience are people who primarily subscribe to Pittman or other local theaters, too. And so this might be the only production of Cats that they've seen. They may have not seen it on Broadway or on tour. And so what I wanted to deliver that to them was an authentic Cats experience. And I one thing I told the cast a lot throughout the process was the show's been around for 40 years. We have to trust it and not question it. So there's been things that have worked. There's a reason why it has this longevity.

It's why the tagline is now and forever. You know, we have to trust that. So I think it was walking this line. We were trusting what Cats was, what Cats has always been. And then we were doing the things that we could to make sure that the story was just a bit more clear. I think on first watch, you're never going to get every storyline in Cats just because not because we didn't do our job well, just because there's so much to watch when you watch Cats for the first time that, you know, you might just be looking at the lights in the dance and not even thinking about the fact that there's a story. I think the other piece of it is that if I got to say something to people before they saw the show, I would say, hey, like, put on your kid brain, just accept it for what it is and let it do its thing.

And it'll move you. And what was amazing about that is that there were definitely people in the audience that did that. My favorite thing that happened. I'll share two things. One of my favorite things that happened in the in watching audiences respond to this show. Sometimes the Pitman audiences get a little restless towards the end of the show, so they'll start to head towards the back of the theater and stand up so they can be out the door first.

[26:14] Mike Abrams: Which state of the curtain call? Stay all the way till the end of the show. Don't get up. What traffic are you beating? It's a one. It's a main street in middle America.

[26:19] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, I agree. OK, exactly. But there was this older couple that was standing in the back and Victoria walks up to Grizabella and touches her. And the old man goes, oh, forgiveness. That's what it's all about. Acceptance. And I was like, we did it. They got it. They got what Cats is about. Like that. That's exactly the story. My other favorite thing that happened, because I sit in the back a lot, was there was another older man and memory started and he went, he went, oh, my gosh, out loud because he recognized the song. And I was like, that's what we're serving here. We're serving that feeling of nostalgia, that feeling of, you know, something that you've loved for a long time. So there was like a bit of that fan service that we did in our production to just to make sure that people like me and like Nina like felt all of those those feelings.

[27:13] Mike Abrams: What's stopping you, especially in a theater like yours, to go say that before every show? Like there was a I think Heather said something before our show, like a quick little I think it was about donations or subscribing. So like what's stopping you from going on every show and saying, hey, turn your kid brain on?

[27:30] Tyler Daddario: I hadn't thought of it. That's a good idea. Just sort of like expectation setting, like being like, hey, this is what the show is about. I think that would be awesome. And I think to, you know, in retrospect, that's maybe even something I could have done in my director's note is, you know, said, hey, just take this for what it is.

[27:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, I don't know how many people read all of those fully. I think some people do, because I was reading it just out of curiosity to see what you're putting in there. I knew Mark put in his story. Like, I find it really interesting. The circus cats put in a family tree, which was like fascinating. Yeah. So it's fun for me to look through them. But like when I go to most shows, I take the picture and then I put it in my bag, you know, like I put it away. And I sometimes go look at it after, you know, a performer stands out to me and I want to learn a little bit more, but I'm not reading it all the way through. So I'm assuming that's the majority of the audience. But did I tell you my story about the audience, people behind me?

[28:24] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. Your show.

[28:25] Mike Abrams: I mean, just the most typical Cats story, which is like these two guys were subscribers and were every show. And the guys like they started kind of talking, which is, you know, I think I'm kind of, you know, the etiquette of theater is a whole debate going on right now in itself. And they weren't being too obnoxious about it, but they were just very confused. And just remember, because I was laughing, because the one guy goes, dancing, great, singing, great costumes, great. But I have no idea what I'm watching. And I'm like, it's kind of Cats. So at intermission, I finally turned around and without saying my connection to the show, I was like, what do you need to know? Like, what can I answer for you?

And I gave him a very, very simplified rundown. And then right before memory, he taps me and he goes, you're a hero. Like because he understood at least what he was watching. Right. And so I do kind of constantly wonder if you give just the basic simplified version of like, you don't need to know all the theories and potholes, like the level of detail that, you know, and that I've learned over the years. But just a simple like, here's the group of cats. Here's what they're doing. This is what it is. This is what you're leading towards. Enjoy the music. And you have at least some understanding. I think more people would be would be more and more engaged, right?

[29:40] Tyler Daddario: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it's it's the type of show where you kind of just have to accept it for what it is instead of try to piece together the plot. And I think that that's right. That's where a lot of people get confused, is that they're trying to make it like Les Mis and it's not it's not that it's not that linear. It's not that. Yeah, exactly. I love the idea of the family tree in the program. I wish that I had thought of that. We did a family tree.

[30:09] Mike Abrams: OK, but can you share it?

[30:12] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. Yeah, I can send it. Let's put it. Let's put it on social media.

[30:14] Mike Abrams: I want to see how it compares to the other one. So when this comes out, if you can share it, I'll put it with the graphic as well, because they made some choices that I think a lot of people like. I loved posting it because some people are like, this is wrong. I'm like, none of it's wrong. No, like it's very up for interpretation. And like, I've known that because it was the first time I posted a meme about Bombay Arena and Demeter that was kind of sexual. And immediately I got like their sisters and then like a couple of Broadway people who were in their production were like, well, no, not necessarily. And just the different productions all played that differently. So there isn't necessarily one family tree. And as much as I've tried to do it, I'm like, I kind of like that there isn't one. So I'm very curious to see what you all put together as yours.

[31:00] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Are there any hot takes on there that's going to get the Cats community up in arms?

[31:06] Tyler Daddario: I don't think so. I being someone who's in the Cats community, I tried to I tried to be respectful of that and tried to tried to not do anything that was too alarming to anybody or anything to know. Just basically, how do you play the Bombay Arena and Demeter sisters, friends, best friends, best friends. So we played it. We played it that Demeter was escaping from Macavity at the beginning, arriving at the junkyard and that Bombay Arena, you know, kind of was like, hey, you're good, girl. Like you're you're back with the tribe. It's it's all good. You're you're here with us. And it's just constantly trying to calm down Demeter's edge throughout the night. Devin, who played Bombay Arena, wanted to lean into that that protective spirit.

I explained to Devin that Bombay Arena was like, you know, like the 90s movies where there's like the old waitress in the restaurant and then there's like the new waitress who comes into the restaurant. Yeah, I describe Bombay Arena as like the old waitress in the restaurant who's like like the bartender who's like, girl, yeah, you got to grow up and I'm going to help you do it.

[32:11] Mike Abrams: Yeah. OK, I like that. That's that's fun. That's also fun to me because that storyline is it's crazy to me that that's like a truth is that like that's the one for sure. Is that this like abuse piece? But also I love that. It's like, all right, we're going to protect you. But then we're going to sing the most sexual song about your abuser possible, right? Together.

[32:32] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. But it's one of my favorite songs in the show. So I can't really complain too much because I love I just love the music.

[32:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's a banger.

[32:38] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. What are some of your like favorite memories from doing this? Obviously, it's been a dream. So what are the things that you'll never forget from from this production?

[32:46] Tyler Daddario: I think that some of the things that I won't forget about the production are one, it was the first time the cast got through the Jellicle ball. That was an amazing moment. Just like, yeah, you're streaming down their face because they were just swept up in it. They got through the whole thing. They were so just in it. That's a moment I'll never forget, just because I felt so proud. We all felt so proud. I remember Heather, my choreographer, looking at me and just being like, wow, this is going to be crazy. So that's that's one moment of just where everything clicked. I remember the first time both we went through act one and the first time we went to act to the cast being like, I get it. I understand what this is now, just because all the pieces click together.

There was just this moment of, OK, you're not crazy. What you were telling us is legitimate and is going to feel good once we get through it. So I'll always sort of value that like. Yeah, Cats works, and this is crazy, cool thing that happens. I think the the big thing for me is just the opportunity to share this show with people has been so touching to me. And so sort of affirming, you know, being even in the theater community, being this person who was just like no Cats is the best musical ever. That was often left with a lot of scoffs and a lot of laughs and chuckles. And getting to share this show with one cast that rallied behind it so, so hard and so fast and furious was amazing getting to share that process with them.

But then also getting to share the show with audiences, getting to, you know, share the show that I loved and meant so much to me with audiences was was really moving. On a personal note, my grandparents are still living. They're in their 90s. And so they were able to come back and see Cats, which was a really special moment. My little brother came and saw it three times. My parents came multiple times. A lot of people from my past and my history knew how important Cats was to me. So they came to see this show. So finally getting to share like what I see Cats as and get to share the way that Cats makes me feel with people that I care about. And and, you know, with like the theater community at large was just really, really special.

You know, there's in so many ways Cats informs who I am as an artist and who I am as a person and and sort of just the way that I carry myself in the world. And so I'm getting to have people finally get to see why is just, you know, you can't beat that full circle.

[35:27] Mike Abrams: I mean, yeah, something you've been waiting for for so long. I'm surprised you didn't do one performance with your grandfather and brother, you know, taking a role.

[35:34] Tyler Daddario: I know my father was so funny when he when he found out that I was doing the show. He's like, so I should I should prep my song, right? Like I should write my own material. And then and then when we were in the process, he's like, hey, like, let me know if you need me to come in and coach the Old Deuteronomy. Like, I got you. Like, I can I can come in and give him some pointers. It was so funny.

[36:06] Mike Abrams: That's I mean, there's some truth to it, too, of like, if anybody can talk about your vision besides you, it's them.

[36:10] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, they could have been a good resource in rehearsals. Like, hey, here's a fog machine comes in.

[36:14] Mike Abrams: Right. My brother was funny. I when we did our preview for the we have like the community theater people come and watch our final dress. We did our preview performance and I turned to my brother and I was like, Kyle, is this is this a good cat? Is this a good cat? He's like, yeah, this is a good cat. This is a good cat. I was like, amazing. That was the stamp of approval I needed.

[36:28] Mike Abrams: That's all you needed. Yeah. I was like, OK, done. So when we talked to Broadway Con, I did ask you if you would if you would do one one show without Grizabella being picked. How close was I to actually making that happen? Was I no shot or completely ignored?

[36:47] Tyler Daddario: No, I I wanted to do it. There is just no way to make it happen. I thought it would be. No, no, I couldn't do it. But I I definitely considered it for a second, even just for the gimmick of it.

[37:01] Mike Abrams: The gimmick of it. And I was just like the last performance. But then I'm also like, you'll probably never get the rights again. So you got to be careful. Right. Right. But yeah, no, I'm working through other channels to try to make that happen or just a place that doesn't care. That's like, we don't care. This is a one time for us. We'll be good after that. Right. Right. Um, the let's do some rapid fire because I want to do some some cat rapid fire. So if you could go on yourself, you obviously played majority of them in your in your basement. But if you go on one night, who would you want to perform as?

[37:25] Tyler Daddario: I mean, I think it's MonkaStrap like that. That was the cat that I love to play. To be clear, I could never play MonkaStrap, but that would be the cat if in a dream world. I had 12 years of dance training and vocal training. That's it.

[37:45] Mike Abrams: I ask this question knowing I can't sing or dance. I can't do any of these. So it's more of just like, yeah, but if you could, if you woke up with that skill that in the morning, which one would it be?

[37:57] Tyler Daddario: Who are your favorite and least favorite cats from a personality standpoint?

[38:00] Tyler Daddario: My favorite cat is definitely MonkaStrap, just because I think that he's such a fierce leader. I think he's such a kind leader and he seems to be compassionate too, which are all the things that I try to be when I'm directing a show and when I'm, you know, carrying myself through the world. So MonkaStrap is definitely my favorite. My least favorite is really hard. I think like if I'm talking 1998 film version, it's like maybe Exotica because I don't know anything about her. But I really love all of the cats for different reasons. And I think that they all play an important part in the tribe. Totally.

[38:39] Mike Abrams: Which one, I guess. So which one, the three words would be the least like you?

[38:44] Tyler Daddario: Oh, which one would the three words would be the least like me? I mean, probably Bumble Arena.

[38:52] Mike Abrams: OK, I'm just yeah, I don't have that. I don't have that confidence or that.

[38:56] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, that's a favorite song in the show.

[38:59] Tyler Daddario: This is the question that I've been sweating about for three days.

[39:03] Mike Abrams: You can say, well, I think this isn't a strict one.

[39:06] Tyler Daddario: OK, I'm going to say I'm actually going to say a couple specific moments in certain songs.

[39:10] Mike Abrams: OK.

[39:10] Tyler Daddario: So my favorite my favorite moments musically in the show are the post tire choir when everybody sings Jellicle songs for Jellicle cats again. I think it's one of the best moments in musical theater when they all run downstage. It's amazing. Into the whole practical cat section. I'm obsessed with that. The Jellicle ball post-Grizabella scare through the end when the cats are all frenetic. And then we go into the grand Jellicle theme section at the very end. That makes me cry and gives me goosebumps every time. I love the very end of Mr. Mistoffelees when Old Deuteronomy is revealed from the moment like Misto jumps into his arms all the way through the end with the cat celebrating the end, Tugger riffing and Misto doing the flips and Cassandra coming back out. That's I just think absolute musical theater magic. And then the journey to the Heaviside Layer is just an absolute banger. It's such a good song.

[40:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I mean, great choices all around. OK, my fun question, I was asked one fun question. I'm curious if you're going to be able to remember this. But OK, I want to know which McDonald's characters played which cats when you were doing it with figurines. OK.

[40:30] Tyler Daddario: All right. So I know that Jane from Tarzan was Jenny Annie Dots because she had like the big yellow dress. And so I was like I was like Jane from Tarzan. You're Jenny Annie Dots because you have the big yellow dress. I know that Old Deuteronomy was always played by a mini Furby because it for me.

[40:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah, like a Furby, like a little bird.

[40:52] Tyler Daddario: Yeah. Yeah. OK.

[40:56] Mike Abrams: I mean, that fits Deuteronomy.

[40:57] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, I think it was just floofy and like bigger. In my brain.

[41:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah.

[41:03] Tyler Daddario: I think that that's all that I remember. I know that there's other there were other Disney characters in there. There were a lot of like random Nickelodeon characters and stuff that were in there too that I don't even know what shows they were from.

[41:16] Mike Abrams: So was it? There is one more cat dog always played Mungo Jerry and Rumpelteazer because they were twins.

[41:20] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, like naturally.

[41:22] Mike Abrams: So you were more on the aesthetic, not the personality. Like there's no grimace being Macavity for stealing type of thing, right?

[41:26] Tyler Daddario: No, it was it was never quite that deep. I think I was more about the way that those different characters made me feel. So, you know, I'm like, oh, Deuteronomy is the the old grandpa. This this creature has to feel wise or like it would be, you know.

[41:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Furby felt wise to you.

[41:47] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, like it had a very long life.

[41:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah.

[41:50] Tyler Daddario: OK, final question. You know, it's coming. So I obviously don't think Grizabella should be the right choice. Obviously, you had to do it in the production. But I want to know you, Tyler, who is your choice and why?

[42:32] Tyler Daddario: OK, so my choice is Grizabella. And the reason that it is Grizabella is because in order for this, the whole story of Cats is about community and about forgiveness and about acceptance and about welcoming someone back to a community when they've been sent out of it or, you know, unwelcomed from that community. That's that was the intention. The original intention of the story was, you know, for it to be about about forgiveness, just because that's what so much of T.S. Eliot's writing was about. But my caveat to all of that is I totally buy it being Gus if I ignore the fact that the original intention was this like storyline of forgiveness.

[43:16] Mike Abrams: So let me ask you a different question, though, because I don't have any issues with the storyline of forgiveness. I have the issue of after that forgiveness murdering her. So what is your interpretation of the Heaviside Layer? Like, where is she going?

[43:30] Tyler Daddario: So that was a big point of contention with the cast, too, is that they're like, OK, yeah, we totally buy this forgiveness thing. We're going to kill her. She's going to go to the Heaviside Layer. That might be because they listen to my show a lot leading up to this.

[43:43] Mike Abrams: Sure.

[43:44] Tyler Daddario: So the way that we played it is that we knew that T.S. Eliot was both of like. So T.S. Eliot was born and raised in the church and then got really into Buddhism later in his life, right? And so in Buddhism comes the idea of reincarnation. And so the way that we played it in our production with that in mind is that the greatest honor that a cat can be bestowed is this idea to be reincarnated, to ascend to the Heaviside Layer and get to be reborn and live another life. So it's in our production. We didn't play it so much as death, as the opportunity to be reborn into something new, to come into a fuller form of yourself. And that let us all swallow that pill just a little bit more.

[44:34] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I think that makes sense because that's that's been always my argument with the Jellicle Ball, why it's harder to argue against Christopher there, because it doesn't feel like it's death in that production. It was very much a you're going back into the world with being accepted again, which is I still firmly believe a huge part of the story and needs to be there. Where I want that tweak is the after. I'm like, you just accepted her back. Stay, enjoy some time. Let's have a family moment there.

[45:01] Tyler Daddario: So I don't disagree with that notion at all. I do think the one thing that would be interesting in a future production is to have some sort of moment after Journey to the Heaviside Layer where you see her reborn, like where a new kitten joins the tribe or, you know, you see a young version of herself come back out or you see some sort of transformation happen to make it clear that no, she didn't die. He's just being reborn. So there is a way to do it. I've thought about this because I was I was told a little bit and again, I don't know how much I believe is been thought through versus just like the production needs this dancer, but like in a lot of productions, Grizabella dances in the beginning as baby Griz.

And like, there is a meta version of that, which is like, that is the beginning of she's last year's choice starting the ballgame. So you could just, you know, after you do, I mean, it kind of ruins the ending because the like, the last song is the Addressing Cats is pretty powerful, right? But you could do the beginning of the show again with her then in that moment, but much more as Grizabella, like very clearly Grizabella, and then somehow find a way to cut it there. And then you would have that, which is like, oh, now this is the young, this is Griz that's reborn. Like you could tell that piece. I still want a world where instead you lean into the competition aspect and you let the audience vote.

[46:28] Mike Abrams: Oh, that would be amazing.

[46:29] Tyler Daddario: That would be so much fun.

[46:30] Mike Abrams: So fun to do that. And I always thought about that with the tours because I've been at a few places or a few shows where I've known somebody in the cast. Like I interviewed somebody and then I went to see them on a Broadway show and they're like, oh, you picked a good day to come. 300 people from my dance studio are going to be there. And I'm like, this person would win tonight. You know, like it doesn't matter what character they are. They're winning tonight because the entire audience is there for them. And I think that's fun. Imagine being on tour and going home or even in your show, it's like, this is the day that a bunch of my friends and family all came for me. All of a sudden, et cetera, is the choice because of that. I think it's a really unique twist, but I don't think the license allows that yet.

[47:12] Tyler Daddario: No, but could you imagine how sad it would be if Grizabella sings Memory and then she doesn't get chosen? She sings it and they're like...

[47:19] Mike Abrams: Not if you have a pause moment. So this is what you have to do. You have to say, OK, that great moment. And then she's brought in, instead of just being let up, she's brought back to the tribe. And then you have a chance to line everyone up. You probably have to add a moment of like, OK, now we're ready to make the choice. Now that our family's all here together, who won tonight? Fair. And then go. And it would work the same because you'd still get that forgiveness moment. You'd still get the redemption story. You'd still have this family moment. But now it's like, all right. And Grizabella will win some nights, a lot of nights probably, because that song is the last thing you see. It's very powerful. But she won't win every night. That's my pitch. That's my pitch. So if you ever do this again and you get licensed, that's what I would like to see happen. And other shows do it. Drew do it.

[47:49] Tyler Daddario: I know.

[47:50] Mike Abrams: I do know that somebody did it in a chorus line, but got in a lot of trouble. So maybe it's not as possible as I think, but that's my dream.

[48:01] Tyler Daddario: I love it.

[48:02] Mike Abrams: But this has been so fun. I hope you get to do Cats again in your life. And if you do, let me know. I'll be there to support any way I can. But how can people stay in touch with you on everything you're working on in the theater world or professionally?

[48:35] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, sure. So my website is TylerDaddario.com. Just my first name, last name. And you can check out everything that I do there. You can also check out pictures from our production of Cats if you want to check those out.

[48:46] Mike Abrams: Amazing. Amazing. Well, this is so fun. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing it and letting me come out and experience your shows. It was a great time.

[49:00] Tyler Daddario: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on the show. And of course, thanks for coming to see our show. It was so cool to have you there. We loved it.

[49:01] Mike Abrams: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast based on the Cats' history. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast. Follow us on social media at TheWrongCatDied or check our website at TheWrongCatDied.com.