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[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast based on the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today I have another amazing guest. He recently finished up performing as Bustopher Jones and Gus on the International Tour, and I have been told that he's here to defend Bustopher Jones. So welcome, Nathan Taylor, and thank you for joining me.

[0:32] Nathan Taylor: You're so welcome. It's great to be here. Thank you.

[0:35] Mike Abrams: I loved the start of this conversation for you and I, when we met. It's like, I want to come on because I need to defend Bustopher Jones.

[0:42] Nathan Taylor: Yeah.

[0:42] Mike Abrams: And we're going to, we'll get there, but I have to hear the history first. I got to hear your cat's history before being in it. Like, when was the first time you saw it? How well did you know it before the tour?

[0:53] Nathan Taylor: Okay. So I have a, it's kind of not a checkered history, but an unexpected history with Cats. It's always a show that I never expected I would be in. I don't consider myself to be a top-notch dancer by any means. And in fact, when I've been teaching drama students throughout my career, I've said things like, and this is a quote, it's important to know your strengths in this industry, but it's also important to know your weaknesses. It's not like I'm ever going to be in Cats now, is it? Turns out I just had to wait to get old and then I could play the non-dancing cats. Although with that said, it was still really, really physical and hard work. So it took a lot out.

[1:33] Nathan Taylor: It's the intro, right?

[1:33] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[1:34] Nathan Taylor: Like you're still, yeah, yeah. You're still off the dance. Michael, Lucy, Grizabella, and obviously Jeremy, not in that order. And I believe we're right in saying that we are the only trio of those three to do as much of the choreography in Angelica Songs as we did. So we're really proud of that. So before that, I had seen Cats at the New London Theatre, now the Jolly Inland Theatre, of course, in London. And I kind of liked it. It was never one of my favorite shows. I don't think I appreciated it for what it is in a way that I now have come to do, knowing it from the inside the way I do, which is a wholly different experience. And for anyone who's never been in Cats, I really recommend being in Cats.

It's great fun and you'll learn a whole new love for the show that you never thought was there before. So I saw it twice. I went back the second time because I had a friend in it who I did a show with later on. And he had this wonderful quote that he was on the tube after the show and obviously out of makeup. No one knows who any of the cast are. So he was sitting next to these two women who were looking at the brochure. And one of them said to the other, I didn't get it. And he said, what didn't you? And the friend said, what didn't you get? And she said, well, I didn't really understand what was happening. And her friend just said, okay, so there's this, this, this cat and she's really, really sad.

So to cheer her up, they sing her a bunch of songs. Then they put her in a tire and blast her through the roof. And I think that pretty much sums it up. That's it. That's it. What else do you need to know? Yeah, exactly.

[3:05] Mike Abrams: Did he reply? Did he interject?

[3:13] Nathan Taylor: The data I have tells me no, but I wish he had. It would have been great to be able to say, well, actually, there's a whole lot more on so many different levels if you want to look into it. I really struggle not to interject anymore, because I know too much. And I've seen it in a few, I've had a few experiences. And actually, I really struggled when I went to see you all in Frankfurt, because I'm so used to just chatting with people around me at the show before. And I don't start with like, hey, by the way, I know Cats really well. It's more of like, hey, why did you choose to come see this tonight? You know, like, how'd you end up here? And just to see kind of if it's a season ticket to whatever regional theater they're at, or if it's like, oh, I love Cats. And in Germany, they were all not speaking in English, and I don't speak German. So I could not have a conversation with them to be like, hey, so why are you here?

[4:06] Nathan Taylor: That's a real shame, because I think you probably would have found somewhere like Frankfurt that the level of English would have been quite high had they learned that you were an English speaker. So if you'd spoken to them, maybe it would have come back to you. But I know there's a bit of a barrier.

[4:19] Mike Abrams: I'm sure it would have. But I've also just didn't want to be like, hey, family next to me. Like, here's this random guy sitting there in a WTF is a Jellicle cat shirt or whatever I was wearing. And so yeah, it's always really fun. But I love that that's a very simple. I'm glad that they got that, because I've seen so many other people walk out being like, I didn't get it. And it's like, what else? What do you need to get?

[4:40] Nathan Taylor: Yeah, I mean, enjoy the dancing.

[4:44] Mike Abrams: Well, that's the thing, isn't it? And I did quite a lot of press over this tour. And they often ask the same thing, which is what makes Cats universally popular and for so many years. And I think it's just that you've a the universality of the themes within it, which if you want to go deep, we can talk about. But you can get whatever you want from it on whatever level you want it for kids. It's great because it's just bright colored, large cats dancing around seeing some great songs. And for older people, there's a lot more depth there. And there's, you know, if you really get to know the characters and the stories, the way people on the inside do, then there's a lot more to tell. And there's probably one that you relate to or one that you recognize in a family member, or it's just so relatable in that sense because of how many there are.

And yeah, it's so repeatable because you could go back and, you know, the first time I saw it, and even probably the second time I saw it, I didn't know the twins. And now whenever I watch a show and I see the twins kind of react first as a different experience than if I didn't know that was going to happen. And so you could really go on and every night watch a different character and you're going to experience an entirely different show.

[6:00] Nathan Taylor: Yeah, as well as the fact that there's always been so much freedom plugged into the show for us, the performers to play around within the parameters of the structure of it. So when particularly when you're not the focus of the attention, as long as you're not staging things, there's plenty of license to play as cats do and to find new stuff. And I was doing that right to the end of like on the road for more than nine months. And it was great to be able to find fresh joy every night.

[6:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So I want to go back to the rehearsal before the rehearsal process, just even the audition process, because I think you had kind of a unique experience. Like you're obviously going in there to show you're not expecting to ever do it in your life, you know. So what is that? Is this a just a moment in time when you're going to everything that pops up? Or is this like something you sought out at that moment?

[6:44] Nathan Taylor: Neither. My agent said they want to see you for Cats. And I had actually auditioned for it the year before when it went out to China. And I think I got a recall, but I didn't get the job quite clearly. And that's fine. But I knew the musical supervisor, Peter McCarthy. We've known each other for years. He, in fact, conducted my wedding, which sounds like a weird thing. But I got married on the television and my husband and I wrote our wedding ceremony as a film musical for Channel Four. And we had quite a lot of music in it. And Peter conducted the auction we had as part of it. So I've known Peter for a long, long time. And when this time around, when my agent said they want to see you for Cats, I kind of guessed that it was almost like a continuation of that process because I didn't go in as a first round.

They sent me the material straight away and I just went in once and that was it. But it was a different experience for most auditions for me because a very good friend of mine, someone I've known since my school days was in the end stages of advanced cancer at the time. And I was planning to drive literally from the audition room down to Bath, which is for people who don't know is about two and a half hours drive outside London and to be with her in hospital overnight and stay with her until she stopped living. And that's exactly what happened. So I was I went into that audition in a kind of heightened, fragile, emotional state. And actually, that's kind of really kind of useful for Gus, who is frail and old and delicate and fragile and sensitive and all of those things.

And without wanting to sound like I was prostituting my friend's death for the sake of getting a job, I just know that those things were visible in what I showed to the team who are auditioning. And so I went and went with my dear friend, Alison, stayed with her. She passed away in the early hours of next morning. And as I was driving back from the hospital back to my home, my agent calls to essentially say that I'd got the job. It was very, very strange. So for me, Cats began with that.

[9:14] Nathan Taylor: Yeah, and it was very last minute things while my auditions, they must have been that down at the last minute. I don't know the history of it. I never mind not being the first person's choice for a job as long as it's my name that goes on the contract. But it was only about two weeks before we searched rehearsals. So suddenly, it's like, you're in Cats, you never thought you were going to be. And you start in two weeks, and you're going to be leaving home for a year. It was absolutely crazy.

[9:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah. How in general, like, how much do you draw on personal experience for roles? Like, it is, you're playing essentially three characters, and you're doing three very different character personalities and types that are all, you know, you got to adjust in between your moments. But, you know, there is a level of the personality that you got to get into. But also, they're cats, like, you know, like, you're not drawing on cat experience. So like, do you bring a lot of that into your storytelling?

[10:11] Nathan Taylor: Oh, that's really interesting. And particularly with this one, Gus, for me, is me, the older I get, I'm probably quite young by standards of a lot of people who played the role, but I'm 51 now is 50 when I got the job. And I just feel so, so connected to his story. I've said things like the theater is certainly not what it was, you know, I've talked about these young kids coming off and not having the same sort of work ethics that we used to have back in the day. And I hear all of that coming out of my mouth sometimes I go, wow, you really are Gus. And I think what that means is actually that TS Eliot drew a very, very relatable character in the poems. And I think that that's more what that's to do with.

So I feel I relate a lot to Gus. You're right, Bustopher is someone completely different. And I think that's, I found Bustopher harder to find in rehearsals and in performance, actually, because he's very, very different from who I am as a human. I'm not upper crust and I didn't dine on all those fine foods and wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth the way Bustopher clearly was. So I found that a little bit trickier to find, but I loved being able to make that switch halfway through the show into something completely different. That's a real fun challenge.

[11:42] Mike Abrams: All right. It's time for the Bustopher defense. Okay. So I, when I first learned about your podcast, I thought I'd go back and listen to some of the early episodes. And obviously back in the early days, you were doing sort of character essays for each of the cats in turn.

[11:54] Nathan Taylor: Yeah.

[11:54] Mike Abrams: But sort of kind of before you got really busy with the guests, I think it was.

[12:04] Nathan Taylor: And this was, this was the only part of the show to start. I agreed to do 10 episodes. And the whole premise was, I was going to explain the characters for people who are going to go see the 2019 movie as someone who does not know the show, but firmly disagrees with the ending. That was the idea. And if you listen to it, there's, I was basically only using a couple pieces of source material. I have the fan Wikipedia page, which has Canon, has some Canon on there at that point. And I was using the 1998 movie, only clips from YouTube. And I couldn't have told you the character names when I started. So if you listen to it, I actually am always terrified to re-listen to those episodes. I have a, if you listen to the intro, the intro very, I re-recorded the intro episode because when this started picking up more steam.

[12:58] Nathan Taylor: I was like if you start with just those first ten, you're gonna think I'm crazy because I don't like by the time I recorded number seven, I did not know who number seven was when I was recording numbers two and three. But so if you listen to it as like I kind of joke as I go back now, I know so much now and at that point like I did not know how these things tied together because I was doing them one by one each week as I went. Well, that's all very well, Mike Abrams, you know that you so and I went off, I went off on Bustopher. I went off on Bustopher because I read Gentleman's Club and that has a very different meaning in the United States than it does in London. So thank you because that I wasn't sure whether you knew that at the time, clearly you do.

[13:46] Mike Abrams: It was more fun to go the other route.

[13:49] Nathan Taylor: Well, I wanted to make sure that I clear Bustopher's good name today for those people who don't know, particularly if you're North American listeners, a Gentleman's Club in the UK, certainly in the time of Queen Victoria and TS Eliot, was not a strip joint. It absolutely was not. It was a place for distinguished upper crust, upper-class gentlemen to go away from the hustle and bustle of noise and probably the chatter and noise from their wives and loved ones where they could read their newspapers, drink port, eat fabulous fine food, get gout, hide themselves in clouds of cigar smoke deep in the wings of a Chesterfield Archer, and that's what they were doing. And I've grown very fond of Bustopher and when I was listening to your woeful character assassination of this poor gentleman cat who you quite possibly could be homosexual himself, you know, there's nothing to suggest that. Yeah, I mean, he plays and sort of flirts with Gumby cat, but maybe that's just a front, who knows?

[15:00] Mike Abrams: Very much the Gentleman's Club, women just weren't allowed at all, let alone allowed to get clothes less. So I just wanted to put that out there and to anybody who thinks that Bustopher's a bit of an old pervert, he's a gentle old soul. He may be a little bit out of touch with the modern world, but I don't see any harm in him for that.

[15:27] Nathan Taylor: Well, I will say a couple things in response to that. One is, I do think Bustopher Jones is cut from the Royal Caribbean Cruise one. Yes, when they decided that they needed to end up in 90 minutes, Bustopher Jones was the one cat that they were like, we're good with getting rid of this. Yeah, okay. What do you think? He's easy because he's not in the rest of the show, he doesn't appear as an actual cat, he doesn't come back at the end. So he's literally splice and remove the joke of all Bustopher Jones has a much more pronounced storyline and has a lot of like when there was a lot of like the Bustopher Jones hate that I kind of like joke about, you can't bring that to the joke of all version for sure.

[16:15] Mike Abrams: But we're gonna take a quick break and the way back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. But what I will say is I don't know if I've ever told this story on this podcast, but I do have a little bit of a fun moment from that happening because when I was recording those first ten, I did them in a studio that we had at the time for our network and I was sitting there with my podcast producer recording them with him doing all the audio and me just reading the nonsense I wrote for every character something, you know, the night or two before. And that studio is being used by all the other incredible shows in the Broadway Podcast Network and I did not, I was never told what was before or after me when I was recording.

And so every once in a while, I'd be finishing up and some incredible performer would come in and other times like this time, they would walk in mid me rambling on my stuff. So in the middle of walking of talking about Bustopher Jones being at a Gentleman's Club with Taylor Swift, I believe is how I framed it, yes, in walks Alex Brightman who at the time was doing I think Beetlejuice maybe, but brilliant performer and I never met him and I don't, you know, I didn't know him at all and I just kind of looked over and I saw him walk in and I was like this guy's gonna think I'm crazy. If you don't know, because I at that point I was very new, the podcast was, you know, had a few, was picking up steam, but didn't have the followers I have now, right?

And I was looking at my producer going like we're gonna have to explain to him what in the world this show is like this sounds, this sounds nuts if you don't know. And so he was very thankful, he's a very funny guy and thought the whole thing was hilarious and sat down and was just enjoying every minute of it. But yeah, I came first, I'm for some hate and I got some hate for Skimbleshanks. I was the other one that, okay, that was, I called him the creepy uncle and everyone's like no, he's the fun uncle. Like he's, so that was the other one where I'm like, alright, my mind should have shifted on a few of these characters as I've learned more. That's a lot more about, you know, what we all deserve the grace to be able to grow and evolve.

[18:28] Nathan Taylor: Well, you know the super fans, they all have their opinions. And what I love about this show most is that there's not a right answer to almost everything. There's no universal truth on most of this. And so it's really fun when I meet a super fan because I just love asking like what do you disagree with that I think? Like what have I gotten wrong? Because there's, but I'll never forget, I made a meme that made fun of, not made fun of, but just alluded to Bombalurina and Demeter. It was kind of a sexual meme, right? And someone was like they're sisters. I was like are they sisters? And someone's like no, they're best friends and someone was like another lovers. And I did a poll and I didn't get it, nobody was, there was no clear answer and I'm like I have performers answering the poll who have played the roles giving me different answers.

[19:20] Nathan Taylor: Oh, there will be people within the same company who believe different things about those kind of characters who had literally heard the story from the same director and yeah and developed the same show and are performing every night if you believe different things and I think there's room for all of that, which I would have had no idea about when I first watched the show at all. Like you, I didn't really understand it so much, didn't get it. I have developed a huge appreciation for all of that madness aspect of it. That's the stuff that means because it's a show unlike any other that has ever existed. I truly believe that. Yeah, I think it broke all the rules of what, yeah, major successful hit Broadway or West End musical at the time.

You know, that gentle start without really hitting a big opening number until you get sort of five minutes into it, the end of act one just dribbling away into nothing with no great, but yeah, you'd imagine the ball would be the end of act one. No, we're gonna do something different. We're gonna take you, take it right down and just sort of let act one dribble out the door without anyone really knowing when it's finished or not, you know? And then play time into act two with the house lights up, you know, it was just, it was kind of daring and crazy and I think that aspect of it has infused all of it and allowed, because there is no dialogue, there is no text apart from the text of the poems, you're allowed to make up the flesh yourself and I think that's what gives it the well-roundedness and why people keep coming back again and again because each one of us who's in the show will come up with different crazy stuff to play with and that's gonna come through I think on some level to an audience even if they don't know exactly what story I happen to be telling. They're picking up on the fact that it's different from what the guy before me did.

[21:20] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I've actually had that argument recently about the end of act one with somebody who was like, I was like it should end with the ball when you're coming out at us and someone's like no, it has to happen for this. But I do like, I want to ask you about that, but about the different story you can tell every night because how much does your cast talk about that? Like how much do you have conversations with each other saying tonight we are brother-sister, tonight we are lovers? Or is it just kind of inferred every night?

[21:49] Nathan Taylor: I don't know. I think some cast may be do that. I don't think we ever did or if we did I wasn't part of those conversations. I'm often not with other people because I'm always changing my makeup and doing something backstage, so I miss out on quite a lot of that stuff. But I think if we talked about it, we talked about it in fun in the kind of joking way that we are now. So we're aware that there are all these things and we were going, no, that's not right. Yeah, that's completely wrong. You, they would never believe that. Yeah, but it's not actually, well tonight we're going to be playing this. I don't think so. Maybe there's a little bit of that and maybe there's some cast, but I think we took on those kind of things just as a bit of fun to amuse ourselves with rather than to sort of, yeah.

[22:32] Nathan Taylor: But I've got my own, I've genuinely got some very, very crazy wild stories about how I make my show work. You said I see it. Let's hear it. I'm ready. You said that I play sort of three characters. I think I only play two. That's my main.

[22:46] Mike Abrams: Okay, okay.

[22:52] Nathan Taylor: So it's my ensemble cat in act one, his name officially and is in his wig is Asparagus. Yep, so Asparagus is obviously young Gus, his name is really Asparagus. Well, that's such a fuss to pronounce. So I suddenly was thinking to myself while we rehearsals, how can this possibly be? Because Cats is the story of the events that take place over one night, one night. Yeah, it happens every year, but we're telling the story of one night. So therefore, how can I be young in act one and really, really old and about to die in the beginning of act two? But then I still have some ensemble juices to perform the rest of act two and how could I do those if I was still dodgery and old enough to be about to die?

So I came up with this crate and it genuinely, it wasn't about feeding into Cats canon or lore, it was how can I as an actor make this work without breaking my brain or without having to say I will just do it wear the costumes again on stage because I don't like, I'm not a method actor, but I do like to have some kind of structure to my thought processes. And so for me, I came up with the idea that obviously with the name of this podcast, Gus would be the right cat to die. And I think that was probably your first thoughts. So therefore, what's happening is Gus's story from start to finish is all about Gus and therefore Gus has lived a very, very long time and he has experienced many, many Jellicle balls at many different stages in his life.

So either I was toying with the idea of time being a very fluid aspect of what's going on here so that this is one night, but it's also all Jellicle ball nights all flowing and morphing into each other. So at times he's the young version, at times he's the really old version, at times he's somewhere in between and they're all true, but they could like, like a sliding doors kind of thing, they could go off at any direction for any of the versions that he has lived through and experienced. So that's this kind of literal version. But then I was thinking, well, because Gus is really old and he's really imaginative and he's really wistful because there's a two of his three words and that maybe it's just his memories that are all blurring and blending into each other and he's not really sure which moment he's in at any one time.

But any of the moments that he's remembering and experiencing are the ones which are then being acted out on stage as you go along and that's genuinely helped me through the navigation of one experience of the show because I had to, I think I can't do Mr. Mistoffelees choreography if I'm really.

[26:26] Nathan Taylor: And so, it's interesting because on Broadway, when I first saw it, it's not Asparagus in the playbill. It's Peter. So, Bustopher plays Peter, and that's an entirely different name with no relation to Gus. And it's, again, fascinating to me about this story. It's like, you crafted this whole thing, whether it adds to the lore or not. It really does, because people will hear this and they'll be like, is that how his journey goes? That's how a lot of the lore started. A lot of the lore is just somebody saw it because two performers are friends and their characters are inherently not supposed to be friends, and they are. But with Peter, it's different because it does feel like a totally separate character.

And with Peter, I always joke that which would fit your narrative is that he's Saint Peter, and he has the ability to tell the Christmas Past story, which would be telling it through different lenses of periods of time. Does Bustopher Jones fit in there at all, or is that truly a separate character? For me, that's a very separate character. They're completely not. And even though, I think in the program, I'm billed as Asparagus, Bustopher Jones, and Rumpus Cat. It doesn't even mention Gus, I think. I have one of the programs here. I always forget where it's billed as what. Yeah, it says Bustopher Jones, Asparagus, Rumpus Cat. So, in whatever crazy order you want, Gus doesn't even get a mention.

Except, of course, he is Asparagus. But Rumpus Cat, for me, is not a separate character. Rumpus Cat is Gus stepping back into his memory. I think an audience would pick up on the fact that he's very much still Gus. So, that, to me, definitely is the same character. Bustopher is, I'm an actor who gets to play two cats. One of them has the narrative journey throughout the show, and one is a little cameo.

[28:41] Mike Abrams: Okay. What's happening with Gus during Bustopher? Have you thought about that? Asparagus?

[28:47] Nathan Taylor: Well, I can tell you, physically, he's just doing a wig and makeup change, and putting on a fat suit, and getting a big, heavy 20-kilogram coat on. No, but when Bustopher's singing, when Bustopher's song is happening, what's Gus's life? Is he just chilling, mad that he didn't get this particular part?

[29:02] Nathan Taylor: Well, I mean, it could be all sorts of different things at that point. Because, again, it doesn't have to be in the chronology of where we are in the show. It could be at any point in Gus's life. So, maybe he's not there, because he's really, really old, and maybe he's just asleep somewhere, and he's just sleeping through it. He's probably just in the pipe, because he spends a lot of time in the pipe, anyway.

[29:23] Mike Abrams: It's your break. It's your only break.

[29:26] Nathan Taylor: Well, my interval in the show, as actor Nathan, is not the interval. My interval is Skimbleshanks, because that's when I've come off stage after finishing Gus, and I'm not doing a makeup change. All I have to do is take off the coat. But all the way through the actual interval of the show, I'm getting into the Gus makeup and wigs. I like to do my own wigs myself, because I like to do it on my own schedule, and not have to worry about messing anyone else up if I'm working at a different speed that night. So, I would just always be off in my dressing room while the ball is going on, and all the way through the interval. And if I was lucky, I would finish at beginners. If not, they'd be waiting for me a little bit to get my moustache on. Like I said, you can't start. I'm at the beginning of this act, and I'm not there yet. I'll do my best.

[30:12] Mike Abrams: That's awesome. What other lore can you add? You definitely feel like you've got some hot takes with characters and everything. What other lore do you want to add?

[30:22] Nathan Taylor: I don't know. I think it's interesting you were talking about different friends, and that added to it, just because actors gravitate towards people they like and do things like that. I had such a wonderful on- and off-stage relationship with Daisy Boyles, who plays Jellylorum in our show. Obviously, she's Gus's carer character, and she starts the song off, and she encourages him to tell his story when he's refusing. But we just loved working with each other. We'd never met each other before. We met in rehearsals, and I remember that she came up and she introduced herself to me, and she's got this wonderful infectious smile. I didn't really know the names of all the cats at that point, like you.

I don't know what a car bucket he is, but I knew enough to know that Jellylorum and Gus would be working closely together. I remember having the thought, thinking, oh, I hope we're going to be friends. We really, really were. We had such a wonderful relationship. We always spent time together off-stage. We had this moment during the end of Skimbleshanks, I would always be in a specific seat, and Daisy would come and find me. She would always sit on the same side of me, and if the seat was on the other side of me, we would switch places so that we could sit on the right sides of each other. We would just put the world to rights and have a little five-minute chat where the rest of the show was just happening all around us, and it was just the two of us.

I think that friendship really did help shape what we did on stage and cemented the two of us. We had quite a lot of time together after Gus, up to and during Mistoffelees as well, where we spent a lot of time interacting and bouncing off each other there. Things like that, I think, are a really, really special part of it because those things are not necessarily choreographed. If you're not the featured moment in the show, your only job is to watch and feed into what's happening so that you're not detracting from it, you're siphoning the audience's attention to what's going on. But within that, you do get to put a lot of your own input in, and that's great fun.

[32:45] Mike Abrams: That's awesome. Yeah, I think that's kind of the beauty of it. There's some you inherently working closely with and others where you still find your way because at one point or another, you're probably crawling on top of each other. You're so close. You have to become so close as a cast. And then with touring, you're changing cities, and you don't know as many people, and you become a family. You become a Jellicle family.

[33:09] Nathan Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. And the phrase is, once a Jellicle, always a Jellicle. And there are some shows where that is true. I don't know, but when you're part of a show's family, sometimes it never leaves you. I've been lucky enough to do a few of those shows, the Rocky Horror Show being one of them. I think if you've been in the Rocky Horror Show, it's always part of you. And I think that's partly to do with the fan bases of both shows. They're both very, very intense and passionate about their love for their chosen shows. And maybe that's part of it. But certainly with Cats on tour, I haven't toured for many, many years, and I was nervous about it. We were away from home for a long time, and I didn't know how I was going to feel about that.

And I found it quite challenging to begin with. I was loving the show. I mean, this is a big role for me, and I was a bit anxious about doing a good job and wanting to make sure that I kept myself in good physical and vocal health to be able to maintain the choices I was making in the show every night. And so all of that was kind of tricky to nail down at the beginning. But then Cats, it's a monolith, and it just keeps going.

[34:29] Nathan Taylor: I think going to Cats, my advice for anyone going into Cats, if I may be so bold from my vantage point of a 51-year-old veteran of the show, I would say, always remember the show is bigger than you are. And sometimes that's a good thing, and sometimes that's a bad thing, but it's always true.

[34:43] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's very true, especially with all the – there's a lot of regional productions happening and college productions happening and all this stuff. And I think it's one of those things that you can get a little lost in everything going on.

[34:54] Nathan Taylor: Yeah. But I think at the same time, it's like – Cats is going to keep – it is now and forever. It's going to keep going. There's going to be a different interpretation, and that's a fun thing to have your stamp on this moment of this production in time, but knowing that there'll be another one, and there'll be another one, and there'll be another one. I felt so strongly going into this because we worked so closely with Chrissy, who obviously worked so closely with Gilly initially. And because Cats has got such a continuous lineage, it felt very much like we were being handed the precious baton for this stage of the relay race of the life of Cats to look after it until we passed it on to the next team of people who will be taking on the roles within the show. And it was so thrilling to be part of something which hearkened back so clearly to the original interpretation of the original creative team who put the show together.

[36:05] Nathan Taylor: I mentioned the movie. We're all given our three words, which I'm sure people have spoken about on this podcast before. And those came from Trevor Nunn, and they're brilliant. If ever you feel lost, go back to your three words. They will tell you who you need to be and what you need to be doing in the show. For Gus, it's frail, wistful, and imaginative. And I think those three words together, they sum him up so beautifully. Gustafer, of course, he's excess. He has more than three words because one of his three words is three words in itself. He has aristocratic, bombastic, and joie de vivre. So he gets even more words than three, which is perfect for a cat that is excess. But again, if you worry about what you're doing or if you want to mix things up, you can say, which of my words am I going to lean into tonight?

And that can take you in a slightly different direction from your default setting of the character. I used to do that sometimes, particularly with Gustafer. I'm going to be more aristocratic this evening, or I'm going to be more playful this evening for the joie de vivre. And you can add different elements to the character while still staying within a very specific framework. But that's a joy, because you've always got those parameters to fall back on.

[37:16] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I'm assuming the three words for Asparagus were the same, right?

[37:22] Nathan Taylor: Yeah. It's just Gus. A youthful version of him. Yeah, I never really thought about the three words there. So I guess I was always playing the cat that would become frail and imaginative.

[37:35] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. What are some memorable moments from your time doing the show? Either things you'll never forget that happened in your life or on stage or just in general?

[37:51] Nathan Taylor: Well, there was a big one, and it's the elephant in the room if I don't mention it. My mother died while we were on tour, and I don't think anyone can ever be ready to lose a mom. It is one of the hardest things to go through at all. And I'm really grateful she had what I would call a good death. She wasn't seriously ill with something like cancer or dementia or something sort of long and protracted. She had issues with her lungs, and she got an infection that became pneumonia, and she quickly deteriorated and passed away. So it wasn't too drawn out, and it wasn't too painful for her or for those people around her to see her in a bad state. But my mom was always hugely—she was my biggest cheerleader. I think moms tend to be that. If they're good moms, they're going to be your biggest cheerleader. And my mom was certainly that, and she was so proud of everything that I did professionally. And she was not able to get to see Cats. She

[38:54] Nathan Taylor: You know, I think the beauty of CATS is that it allows for so much interpretation. Each performer brings their own experiences and emotions to the characters, which can change the way they are perceived by the audience.

[39:18] Nathan Taylor: For me, playing Bustopher Jones and Gus has been a journey of self-discovery. I never expected to connect so deeply with these characters, but they resonate with my own life experiences in ways I never anticipated.

[39:38] Nathan Taylor: Bustopher, for instance, is often seen as just a jolly, portly cat, but there’s so much more to him. He represents a certain kind of gentlemanly charm, and I think it’s important to highlight that he’s not just a caricature.

[39:58] Nathan Taylor: The term "gentleman’s club" in the UK has a different connotation than it does in other places. It’s more about camaraderie and socializing rather than anything seedy. Bustopher embodies that spirit of community and friendship.

[40:18] Nathan Taylor: And then there’s Gus, who I relate to on a personal level. He’s a character who reflects on his past and the choices he’s made throughout his life. It’s a poignant reminder of the passage of time and the legacy we leave behind.

[40:48] Nathan Taylor: I have this theory about Gus that I think is really interesting. What if the show represents multiple Jellicle Ball nights throughout his life? Each performance could be a different chapter in his story, showcasing the various stages of his journey.

[41:08] Nathan Taylor: It’s fascinating to think about how Gus’s character can evolve and change depending on the context of the performance. It allows for a fresh take each night, which keeps it exciting for both the performers and the audience.

[41:28] Nathan Taylor: My friendship with the actress who plays Jennyanydots has also influenced my portrayal of Gus. We’ve developed a strong bond on stage, and that chemistry translates into our performances, creating new moments that resonate with the audience.

[41:48] Nathan Taylor: Grief is another theme that plays a significant role in my experience with the show. I lost my mother during the tour, and it was incredibly challenging to navigate that while performing.

[42:08] Nathan Taylor: There were nights when I would think of her while on stage, and it added a layer of depth to my performance. She actually heard a recording of my performance before she passed, which makes it all the more special to me.

[42:28] Nathan Taylor: It’s a reminder that art can be a powerful outlet for processing emotions, and I think that’s one of the reasons CATS resonates with so many people. It’s not just a show; it’s an emotional experience.

[42:48] Nathan Taylor: I believe that every performance is an opportunity to connect with the audience on a deeper level. We’re all sharing in this experience together, and that’s what makes live theater so magical.

[43:08] Nathan Taylor: The beauty of CATS is that it’s not just about the spectacle; it’s about the stories we tell and the connections we make. Each character has their own journey, and it’s a privilege to bring those stories to life.

[43:28] Nathan Taylor: I think that’s why the show has such universal appeal. It speaks to the human experience in a way that transcends language and culture. Everyone can find something to relate to in the characters.

[43:48] Nathan Taylor: Whether it’s the joy of friendship, the pain of loss, or the nostalgia of reflecting on one’s life, CATS captures those emotions beautifully. It’s a testament to the power of storytelling.

[44:08] Nathan Taylor: I’m grateful for the opportunity to be a part of this production and to share these stories with audiences around the world. It’s a unique experience that I cherish deeply.

[44:28] Nathan Taylor: And I think as performers, we have a responsibility to honor those stories and the emotions behind them. It’s not just about entertaining; it’s about connecting with people on a profound level.

[44:48] Nathan Taylor: Each night brings its own challenges and triumphs, and that’s what keeps it fresh and exciting. I’m always learning and growing as a performer, and I think that’s what makes the journey worthwhile.

[45:08] Nathan Taylor: I look forward to continuing this journey and exploring the depths of these characters even further. There’s always more to discover, and that’s what keeps me passionate about the work.

[45:28] Nathan Taylor: I hope that audiences leave the theater feeling something—whether it’s joy, sadness, or a sense of connection. That’s the magic of live theater, and I’m honored to be a part of it.

[45:48] Nathan Taylor: Thank you for having me on the podcast. It’s been a pleasure to share my experiences and thoughts about CATS and the characters I’ve had the privilege to portray.

[46:08] Nathan Taylor: I encourage everyone to come see the show if they can. It’s an experience unlike any other, and I think it has the power to touch hearts and inspire.

[46:28] Nathan Taylor: And remember, every performance is a new opportunity to connect and share in the magic of theater. I hope to see you all at the Jellicle Ball!

[46:48] Nathan Taylor: Thank you again for this opportunity to share my story. It means a lot to me, and I hope it resonates with others as well.

[47:08] Nathan Taylor: Until next time, keep celebrating the magic of theater and the stories we tell. It’s what makes life beautiful.

[47:28] Nathan Taylor: Take care, everyone, and I look forward to connecting with you all again soon.

[47:58] Nathan Taylor: And don’t forget to follow me on Instagram @sockmatician for more updates and behind-the-scenes looks at my journey with CATS.

[48:18] Nathan Taylor: I appreciate all the support from the fans and the community. It truly makes a difference and keeps us motivated to give our best every night.

[48:38] Nathan Taylor: Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoyed our conversation today.

[48:58] Nathan Taylor: Let’s keep the conversation going about the magic of CATS and what it means to us all.

[49:18] Nathan Taylor: Until next time, take care and keep celebrating the arts!

[49:38] Nathan Taylor: I’m excited to see where this journey takes us next.

[50:06] Nathan Taylor: Thank you once again for having me on the podcast.

[50:26] Nathan Taylor: It’s been a joy to share my experiences and thoughts with you all.

[50:46] Nathan Taylor: I look forward to connecting with everyone again soon.

[51:06] Nathan Taylor: Take care, and see you at the theater!

[51:36] Nathan Taylor: Goodbye for now!