This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat satirphy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest.

[0:21] Mike Abrams: She's been in multiple productions of Cats, most recently as Bombalurina in the 2022 Asia Tour. So welcome, Petra Ilse Dam, and thank you for joining me.

[0:27] Petra Ilse Dam: Thank you very much. And you said my name very well.

[0:32] Petra Ilse Dam: I got it. I got it. We practiced before because I, you know, I always try to get it right and then I hear it and then I read the whole intro and then I forget it. So we're always ready to go. I'm excited to have you. I want to start with your Cats history because you obviously got to do, you know, more than just the Asia Tour. You did the Vienna Revival. You got to do it in German and in English and have a couple Cats pieces of your resume. But what was the actual introduction to the show?

[0:49] Petra Ilse Dam: The introduction was probably the moment the audition came out. Okay, that's not very true. Of course, I heard of Cats before, but I never watched it. And oh, actually, in my school, I did a couple of pieces. Like we did Rumpelteazer and Mango Jerry and we did Macavity, but I didn't know the show. I never saw it. So when the audition came out was actually my first introduction to, yeah, when I was going to do the audition to watch the DVD.

[1:08] Mike Abrams: So when you see it, like when you're doing pieces of it growing up, you obviously are studying to, you know, you want to be a performer and a dancer and do these types of things as a profession. And you get introduced to, I'm sure, a lot of different things that you do pieces of, like you said, Macavity and Mango Jerry and Rumpelteazer. Does that pique your interest, like as a student and a kid learning that? Or is it kind of like, no, what's this weird?

[1:16] Petra Ilse Dam: No, no. I was like, what is this? What are we doing? I didn't really know the Cats music so well and everything. And then we did it at school and I was like, okay, I can't imagine doing this ever, let's say.

[1:26] Petra Ilse Dam: Yeah, because I did not grow up in that world. So I'm kind of like fascinated by hearing and I can only imagine that, like, one of the strangest parts for me with Cats, the first time I saw it, was the names of the cats. And Mango Jerry and Rumpelteazer was one. And it's like, I can imagine you doing, like, a dance number and song from, like, The Sound of Music and some of these other, like, very classical musicals. And it's like, here we go. Here's Macavity. And you're, you know, singing about a cat committing crimes. Like, that's got to be very strange out of context.

[1:35] Petra Ilse Dam: Yeah, it was very strange out of context. And it was also, yeah, I was like, why are we doing this? I didn't really understand.

[1:42] Mike Abrams: Did they have you do the cartwheels as a learning that choreography?

[1:46] Petra Ilse Dam: Yes. But it was easy for me because I came from acrobatics and gymnastics. So that was the fun part.

[1:53] Mike Abrams: You were like, this is no big deal. Okay, so you watched the movie for the audition, but you are going to the Vienna one. So it's going to be in German. Did that, like, did you prep the using the movie for more for the dance numbers? Or like, how did you?

[2:03] Petra Ilse Dam: So, honestly, I did the audition before and then when I got the job, I watched it.

[2:08] Mike Abrams: After, okay.

[2:09] Petra Ilse Dam: So that was also the wrong order. But yeah, I did the audition, did the choreography with the idea, like, I don't think I really want to do this. But Vienna, ooh, nice company to work for. And it's a classic musical. So I was like, let's give it a try. And of course, the jobs, you're like, I don't really know if I want to do that. You get them. And then I was like, now I have to watch the DVD and actually see what I'm going to do, because I got the job. And then I watched the DVD and I was like, oh, my God, what is this?

[2:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So walk me through that first viewing. Like, what did you like, are you even remotely prepared? Like, you know, it's a classic big hit at this point.

[2:35] Petra Ilse Dam: Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah, I can't even really explain. But it was just very different from everything I really knew before. And also, because I did the audition and I got the job, and I was like, I know I'm going to play a cat and I'm going to put on makeup every day. And I didn't really know where it was about. I, yeah, just really had to come from zero. And then, yeah, when you watch the DVD, you still don't really know where it's about.

[2:56] Petra Ilse Dam: Yeah, it came honestly a little bit as a shock. And I was like, oh, I don't know if I'm going to love this, actually.

[3:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. So when you watch the DVD, you're cast as Tantomile covering for Bombalurina, right? Did you try to pinpoint where Tantomile was as you're watching it? Because there's so much happening at all times in that movie.

[3:12] Petra Ilse Dam: In the beginning, I didn't. I just saw it as an overall thing, because I also didn't really know where I had to look for and I just needed to get an overview of all and try to see what it is. And, yeah, the only thing I really knew that it was a lot of dancing and a lot of technical dancing and a lot of singing combined, of course, a combination of it. And, yeah, I definitely wasn't looking for the characters I was going to play. I was just overall checking what the show was.

[3:40] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. So you get the job, you end up in the rehearsal room. What do you remember about what they told you about Tantomile?

[3:46] Petra Ilse Dam: Oof. Yes. We had like these three words we got from Chrissy. And what was it? Telepathic, suspicious. I don't even remember. Sensitive or something. And so I remember they were a bit the strange ones, let's say, who have to feel a lot and sense everything before everyone else knows it. And, of course, you have to work with your partner in crime, Korica Pets, and you literally have to move as one all the time. So it was really working together and making everything so smooth that it almost felt like you were one person. And, yeah, for me, that was actually something I really was fascinated about. And I really enjoyed also doing to make it so perfect together. And if you have a partner who is also sensitive and feels also very... if you can feel each other very good, it's actually really fun to do. And it's really nice to create your own characters together. And they're very different from the other cats also, I think.

[4:27] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I actually use the twins. The first time that was brought to my attention, it was like, that's a really good super fan, watch the twins viewing of the show, because you do sense stuff before everyone else. So you will look before anybody else during certain moments. And the first time I saw the show, I caught none of that. But then when I went back and I learned more about it, I was like, this is kind of interesting. So a lot of times early in the show, I like watching Tantomile and Coricopat because they will turn their heads faster or they will point to where my eyes will need to go two seconds later or three seconds later. And so it's kind of a unique one. But did you have to come up with... obviously, there's the partnership of the being twins, but did you have to come up with more to what that story felt like for you as telepathic, probably in some way related to Old Deuteronomy? How much did you add? Or how much is it just like, we just want to go out there and dance and figure it out?

[5:12] Petra Ilse Dam: I think we added for ourselves just a lot of different things. I mean, you can create it all the way you want. You can make your own version of it. And I think it's nice to find the depth and the reasons why you as a character and as a Tantomile do particular things and make connections. But I do think that this wasn't always set for every show the same. I think it was also very nice to change it every show again, to have different connections, to make different reasons why. But always go a little bit into the psychology and the depth of the character and the connections and why they sense it before.

[5:56] Mike Abrams: I want to move on then to ask another question, though, because this was a production done in German. And so I'm always fascinated by, it's already a weird show to learn. It's already a tough show to learn. It's an immense amount of dancing. And then to do it in an entirely different language. How was that process like for you and being able to learn all these random names and the music and everything in your native language?

[6:14] Petra Ilse Dam: Well, that was definitely not that easy. But the good thing was that I didn't know the lyrics before in English really well. So at least I learned it all the way for the first time. So then, yeah, in German. But yeah, German is like my third language. And I have to say, the texts are so beautiful from Thies Elliott that, yeah, when you change the language, it's not that easy to understand anymore. I think it's anyway already poetic and you have to think about the words. And then when it's in a different language, it makes it even harder sometimes. So it was good sometimes to go back to the English lyrics and, yes, look up how they were actually written to really understand the meaning. But, yeah, learning it in a different language.

And it's not an easy, speakable language, German. It's very hard sometimes. And then when you have to do quick numbers, then, yeah, it's a workout for the mouth. It sounds a bit stupid, but it's really, really, yeah, hard work. But at least we got phonetics and everything and help with how to pronounce all the words. And, of course, also when you didn't understand things, the explanation and everything. So, yeah, it was a learning process, but we got good help, let's say.

[7:31] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I like that you're just like, it's already weird. It's already strange. Don't know it in English. So just learning it like you would any other show. It is like I have the album in German and I have, I think, a couple other languages that I've been able to hear. And it's kind of fascinating because German is, like you said, a harsh language. It's a little bit less fluid than some of the other European languages. And so Cats in that is very, it's an interesting version, but it's also probably the most known version outside of English because it's run in Vienna for so long and has toured around Germany. So it's my dream to see it in another language at some point somewhere. And before we start recording, we're talking about the new Netherlands one that's going to be coming up later this year.

So hopefully we get a chance to see that. Fast forward a couple years. You have some time after that. Obviously, COVID happens. And then you come back to the Asia tour leg as Bombalurina in 2022. So how did that spark back up as like, obviously, Cats is a small world, like the Jellicle world is small. Did you, is it a call you're getting because the, hey, you already know this track and we want, you know, you and someone or is it just back into like a normal audition process?

[8:29] Petra Ilse Dam: Well, in my situation, it wasn't. Of course we had the three years in Vienna, what was in and out with COVID at the time. And then I did something just for a couple of months differently. And then I just got contacted that they still were looking for a position to be filled in the Korean tour. And if I would be interested, and I actually really thought that that would be the last time I've done Cats. And I never thought this would come into my path, actually. And, but yeah, I did got contacts. And I think they had at that time, another international tour going. So and someone else who normally maybe would have been asked who would play Bombalurina was pregnant. And so I think they were needing to find someone.

[13:36] Petra Ilse Dam: Then, yeah, they asked me if I would be interested. And for me, that was an amazing opportunity to do a show in an original language and have an amazing travel experience with it. So and of course, as I said before, I didn't really love Cats and I didn't really understand. But in those three years, I really in Viennese really started to love the show so much. So I was actually there was no question for me like, yes, I want to do it again.

[14:04] Mike Abrams: So how many times did you go on in Vienna as Bombalurina?

[14:09] Petra Ilse Dam: Many, many times. Many.

[14:11] Mike Abrams: OK, so you so how difficult is it switching now, having done that? You know, like it's in your muscle memory of the dancing and all the stuff and it's in your brain, but in German. And now you're going to go do this in English. So is it a tough transition or is it fairly simple to go from, you know, immediately just switching back to the English lyrics?

[14:33] Petra Ilse Dam: For me, it was super easy, I have to say. I think I just cancel quickly out shows in my brain. After a couple of months, I forget the lyrics already. And then when the new show comes, I just start learning again new. And then, yeah, it was pretty easy to do the change. And actually, it was so nice to sing it in English because everything just sounded nicer and everything. Even, yeah, the meaning and everything came more and more clear, so it was a nice, nice transition for me.

[15:05] Mike Abrams: OK, so I want to hear about how you built out your Bombalurina character in Vienna and then how it evolved as you took the role on full time in Korea.

[15:17] Petra Ilse Dam: So in Vienna, I think for me, Bomb was a bit more. I want to say the German word I'm trying to... what's the German word? So it's a bit more superficial, I think, as I made her later. And I think she was a bit more in Vienna for me. She was a bit more egocentric and living a bit more around her own character and sexiness was a bit too much on top. And I think in when I really had time to play it much more in English, I could find more depth in the character itself and reason why she does things and why she has. Yeah, I think that I think it was mostly the connections to the other characters that I could just build up and also change because that's the fun thing in the show. You can change the relationships all the time and you've changed it to the people you work with, because every person in Germany, in Vienna, I worked with are different people than the cast, of course, in South Korea, and you connect to new characters. I was much more in South Korea connected to Skimbleshanks, for example, than in Vienna. And yeah, I think that's the fun part about the show, because the connections are not set.

[16:55] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And you can change them all the time. And also how it is in real life relationships change. And also then in the shows between Vienna and South Korea.

[17:13] Petra Ilse Dam: Yeah, that was going to be my next question, because Bombalurina and Demeter are like my case study of the audience and fan base not having an opinion or not having a consensus on the relationships. And you're essentially saying every night you might play it slightly differently, just depending on who's out there with you or just how you're all feeling. But there is a pretty passionate group that thinks those two are sisters. Those two are best friends. Those two are lovers. Like there's everything in between. And there's been a few productions recently that have like said, this is the family tree or this is the relationships that we are playing for this four weeks, six weeks, whatever we're doing. But when you're doing this for years, are you changing it every night? Like, are you playing let's take Demeter, for example, is one night she your sister and one night she's your best friend?

[18:09] Petra Ilse Dam: No. And that that's for me, it was pretty clear. Like the relationship. Between Demeter, for me, was always I'm her very good close friend, but like almost in a big sister way, but I'm not her sister now. And that, yeah, relationship stayed the same in that way. Kind of.

[18:32] Mike Abrams: What was the Skimbleshanks relationship?

[18:35] Petra Ilse Dam: Skimbleshanks was my best friend, at least best friend, at least for me in South Korea. I felt that a lot because of what Gavin and I got along so very well, so in private life. And I think he also was really like to play this connection between Bombalurina and Skimbleshanks. And I love this friendship on stage also. And I always try to provocate him a little bit and try to get him a bit out of his because he's super controlled and everything has to work this way and this way. And I always like to, yeah, dig in there a little bit and make him a little bit out of his comfort zone. But in a funny way, you know, as a friend, you're like teasing a little bit. And yeah, I had that much more in South Korea. And we and I didn't really have that same kind of connection at all. It was more a far distance friend kind of for me.

[19:33] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's interesting because I've always wondered how much of off stage relationships, friendships like you see this on tours where they, you know, there's a lot of Cats families that have, you know, come from this. And it's interesting when it's not necessarily characters that are written to have a friendship or have a relationship that all of a sudden you see the chemistry on stage because they're just good friends off stage or they're, you know, they've become close. And I think that's where a lot of the lore of the show comes from, because as you said, it's not written. And as long as you stay within kind of the confines of your three words, you can really go have some fun with that. So what was again?

This is I asked this earlier, but are there any that you explore that you were just like that did not work like this is not a relationship that I think these two can play and not related to the people off stage, but more just of like these characters probably couldn't be friends or they shouldn't be interacting in this way?

[20:35] Petra Ilse Dam: Yes, for example, I think Jellylorum and Bombalurina, for example, is a heart relationship on stage, because I think Bombalurina is much more relaxed and chilled and but also wants adventure and Jellylorum for me is much more. I just bit annoying and a little bit. Yeah, everything perfect and super in between lines for my feeling. And yeah, I think Bombalurina would find her a bit boring.

[21:13] Mike Abrams: How did you play the Grizabella relationship? Because there is a view that it could be either a mother or a warning sign or a friend that went down the wrong path. So did you explore that at all?

[21:27] Petra Ilse Dam: Yes, I for me, Grizabella was actually a little bit what I was for Demeter. I saw that Grizabella was a bit. If I would be Demeter as Bombalurina, she would be Bombalurina kind of. So she's like my friends, but the bigger sister friend. And she taught me a lot. And I think she finds Grizabella super exciting character and yeah, really feels partly inspired a little bit by the character of Grizabella, but of course. Then Grizabella went the wrong way, but I think she has a very soft spot for Grizabella.

[22:10] Mike Abrams: OK, what about Macavity? Because that's the other one that's a little bit where it's like, is it a is there more to that relationship? Is it is it as bad? Because it's like there's the Demeter side of that where it's not a good and healthy relationship. But then there's kind of the Bombalurina side where it's like, what's going on there?

[22:30] Petra Ilse Dam: It's exciting, definitely. It's an exciting relationship. And it's also Bombalurina, I think, loves the danger of it. And she feels comfortable with the danger and not be always in between the lines. And she feels also secure enough to discover and go in this kind of relationship. And she's not scared for it. But what can be also a dangerous thing? Because if she, in my opinion, would go too long with Macavity, she could end up like Grizabella, for example.

[23:02] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. I want to hear a little bit about the differences between the crowd and audience reactions of like you're getting to do it in such distinctly different places of Vienna and then South Korea and then Taiwan. There's obviously a global appreciation for the show. But what was it like performing in such different places?

[23:26] Petra Ilse Dam: Vienna is a very nice audience to have always very full theaters. Yeah, good, good audience, loud audience. But during the show, less very different than from the audience in South Korea, for example. What I really, really enjoyed in South Korea was that the people there, the audience there is so active during the show. Like they have so many responses to all the things that happen. And it's like the audience is a bit like almost children watching the show. And I found that so funny because they you have like, for example, this magic trick in the end, you know, with the Mistoffelees and. And all the time, it's for us so obvious, you know, where all dudes comes and they get the red silk away and then there's all dudes.

And the audience there is always responding like their children, like, oh, oh, my God. And I just find it so funny. Like I'm like, you know that you knew that all along. And in Vienna, you didn't have that reaction at all, for example. Plus, yeah, the audience in South Korea is like very playful during the moments where in the auditorium and they take cat toys and they want to like touch you and everything. What is a bit awkward for us? But they pretend like they're really part of our world, I think. And the audience in Vienna sees it more like we're watching a show.

[25:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that's interesting. I know Vienna, it's been on and off in Vienna for so long that I wonder if there's just this level of appreciation of like this is a, you know, and they like all the Angela Webber stuff there, the starlight and everything else. Whereas I don't it's been in Korea a lot, South Korea a lot. But it's popped in and out a little bit more. So I wonder if there's just a little bit more of that newness to it that does it. But it's also maybe culturally different. But I, I can't imagine them like petting you.

[25:37] Petra Ilse Dam: Yes, I know. Getting ready to perform.

[25:39] Mike Abrams: I know it's very funny. I always love to hear any memorable moments from your years doing this. Like, what are the things you're never going to forget? The stories that are just like embedded in your brain from your time doing Cats?

[25:55] Petra Ilse Dam: Well, definitely that I. In the ball, I definitely dropped on stage when we did kicks and everything, I had a couple of falls on stage. Well, it was lovely, a slippery stage.

[26:09] Mike Abrams: OK, by being kind of a cover, did you ever have any split tracks where you had to go and halfway through come on as Bombalurina or do any of those kind of craziness for yourself?

[26:19] Petra Ilse Dam: No, actually, I never had to do it. I mean, maybe in Vienna, Bombalurina danced a little bit less. And she definitely sometimes had to dance a bit more. Yes. But that was fine because it was not very different for me because, of course, I knew the choreos and. Oh, actually, I did once as Tantomile, I had to do the trio as Jellylorum. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

[26:50] Mike Abrams: Oh, really?

[26:51] Petra Ilse Dam: Yes, because we didn't have a Jellylorum or something partly, and then someone else had to do a split track between Jenny Anydots and Jellylorum. And then I, as Tantomile, had to be in the trio and do her tap. So, yeah, that was a very interesting split track experience.

[27:12] Mike Abrams: How much ahead of time do you learn about that? Is that like you get to the theater and it's like, hey, by the way, today you're going to come on for this section you don't normally do and go do it? Or do you kind of get a little bit of a notice because it's like that person was injured yesterday or was out yesterday and that's why? What does that look like from an actual process standpoint?

[27:35] Petra Ilse Dam: Well, normally you get a call in the morning before the call in sick time, let's say. And then they call and they say, hey, Petra, this is the situation at one o'clock, I think. And tonight, if you're okay with it, would you want to do this? Because then you have to sing the harmonies from Jelly Lorm and we can send it to you and can you prepare it? And yeah, and then I prepare it and then I just do it. So.

[28:04] Mike Abrams: Okay, so you get a few hours, you're getting like a voice note of the music. Yeah. And being ready to sing. And then have you practiced that choreography before? Or is it just like, you know, as a dancer, you can pick it up quickly to go do what you need for that?

[28:18] Petra Ilse Dam: I mean, in my situation, it was, of course, the trio you did already as Bomb. So you're just in a different position in the end.

[28:26] Mike Abrams: Oh, okay. So you're just moving. Yeah. And I just had to sing another harmony. So it wasn't that complicated for me to change. I mean, harmony, you learn quick. It's not a four-minute song or something. So yeah, it wasn't too difficult, let's say.

[28:42] Mike Abrams: Okay. Just slide over a few spots.

[28:44] Petra Ilse Dam: Exactly.

[28:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. The whole concept of a swing and just the idea of it is so foreign and crazy to me because I, you know, thinking about people that do Bomb and Demeter and matinee and evening shows and have to do Macavity but flipped and stuff like that is just such a skill, like an incredible skill that you all have to be able to just be like, yeah, I can figure this out in three hours before I'm about to go do a show. And that's, again, the beauty of live theater, because I'm sure a very, very small subset of the audience might have noticed because they're super fans and they realize that's not supposed to be Bombalurina here or Tantomile here. And everyone else is just like, this is great. This is a fun little tap number and has no idea you all figured that out the morning.

[29:37] Petra Ilse Dam: I mean, it keeps it exciting also for us because we play so many shows, eight, seven shows a week. And of course, like I said, you can change the storylines a bit. You can change the connections a little bit. And one day you don't like this person and the other day you do like this person. But also when you're a swing or you have to change some parts, yeah, you can do something else. It means there's so much space to play around in a show and also to make the show very different for you all the time. And this keeps it interesting for yourself.

[30:11] Mike Abrams: So my last question before we go to rapid fire is, as you tell your friends and family and they're coming to watch you to see Cats, how do you prep them for it? What do you tell them that they're walking into? What's the story you're telling them? Are you giving them any notes? I'm assuming at least a handful of the people that came to see you that you know were not ready for Cats when they walked in. So what is your plan there?

[30:41] Petra Ilse Dam: So I like to inform them always a little bit about the story, let's say, because we got with the rehearsal process, we got, of course, a lot of backstory. And in our rehearsal period, we had also Trevor Nunn there and Chrissy. And we had like all this interesting facts and reasons why things came out this way or why it's written like this. It's hard to figure out if you just watch the show. And I just like to, of course, tell the big story a little bit, the storyline overall, like what it is, where it goes to, and you can compare it to normal people's lives, you know, and all the characters. And the Jellicle Ball is like this kind of Christmas and where family comes together. And, you know, I just enjoyed always telling this story a little bit before, because I think otherwise they have no idea what they're looking at.

And also with this little extra facts and little extra, yeah, things why they did a couple of things in the show. It just makes it more interesting. It gives it more color. And I hope that they can see the show that a little bit through my eyes also, and the feelings I have with it.

[32:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I think you have to do one or the other. I think you have to go in with like that, hey, someone's telling me what it is and what to kind of look for and the idea behind it, or go in with nothing.

[32:15] Petra Ilse Dam: Yeah.

[32:17] Mike Abrams: I went in with nothing.

[32:17] Petra Ilse Dam: Okay.

[32:19] Mike Abrams: And it was an experience because you really, like, it's not that hard. Like, I've actually, there's a couple of people that have been like really going off on this as people have argued about, like, Cats is confusing and Kendrick Sniper, the plot's explained in the first, like, two songs. It's like, they come together once a year to make the joyful choice. Like, here's what it is. It's like, it's pretty clearly stated very early on in the show what's happening. Now, there's a lot of other stuff that's around it. But I went in being like, what, what am I watching? So I do love that you give them a little bit of a heads up and like, this is the piece. Did you get any crazy feedback from family members or like?

[33:00] Petra Ilse Dam: Well, a lot of times, they didn't really understand. It was very hard. But then I have to say, of course, I was playing a German show. My family is Dutch. My family. So also, that's also a reason why I need to explain a little bit. Of course, you can see a bit by the choreography and you have like subtitles, but you can't get it all. So yeah, for them, it was just overwhelming, I guess, but super exciting and strange at the same time. And yeah, it's just a lot because there's so many people on stage all the time. Also, that just, I think most of them needed to watch the show or so more many, many times or at least a couple of times because it's too hard to understand anything if you just watch it once.

[34:08] Mike Abrams: They're just excited to see you.

[34:10] Petra Ilse Dam: Yes, exactly.

[34:11] Mike Abrams: It's fun to see you perform. And you do this professionally. So this is the job. And I think there's some times when I've seen other people who I've met through Cats or through other things, do these other shows. I'm like, oh, this is like, I don't want to call it anything more, but it's like, this is a storyline I'm more familiar with, or they're playing a character that's like something I know more about or more related to me. And then it's like, but you're all playing cats today. You are performing as animals in full costume. And it's just a little bit different. And I feel, I mean, it's the same way with some other ones like Starlight and the other where it's like, this is, yeah, it's a little playing an animal is anyway, already such an interesting thing to watch. But they're used to that for me. I did that before, too. So I like to play animals.

[34:50] Mike Abrams: Definitely.

[34:51] Petra Ilse Dam: Yeah. But my family friends are not very in details what they're like, oh, this was very strange or this. They don't speak out that so much. So I can't really tell you what was for them.

[35:00] Petra Ilse Dam: Okay, okay. Okay, let's, let's do some rapid fire.

[35:07] Mike Abrams: What is that?

[35:08] Petra Ilse Dam: You could go on. Oh, I'm just gonna ask you a couple Cats questions.

[35:10] Mike Abrams: Okay, okay.

[35:11] Petra Ilse Dam: Just all Cats questions. If you could go on for one night, any cat, male, female, doesn't matter if you can sing it, dance it, just any night, you can go on anyone, who do you want to go on as?

[35:22] Petra Ilse Dam: Well, Bomb is my favorite still, even if I played it already. But I think it would be also really fun to be Tugger for a night just to be this naughty and fun and free and, yeah, playful. It would be really fun.

[35:39] Mike Abrams: Okay. Who are your favorite and least favorite characters in the show? And I'm asking this from a standpoint of like, which cat would you be best friends with? And which one would bug you?

[35:49] Petra Ilse Dam: Well, like I said before, I think Jen and Lauren would bug me. And I really love Grisabella as a character. I think it's, even if she's not on stage a lot, let's say she has a very interesting character and an inspiring character. And so Grisabella and Tugger also, I think there is, yeah.

[36:20] Mike Abrams: What is your favorite song in the show?

[36:23] Petra Ilse Dam: So I would say immediately Macavity again, because of this beautiful song. But I also really had always a beautiful feeling with the moment of happiness, the opening from the second act, because it's like, I'd always felt like a little bit of a spiritual awakening or something. And the music, it's so beautiful. So I really enjoyed that, too.

[36:46] Mike Abrams: Okay. You just mentioned, I always ask one fun one. You mentioned you've played many animals. So if you could take a non-Cats character animal and put them in the story of Cats, who are you adding to Cats?

[37:00] Petra Ilse Dam: A nun?

[37:01] Mike Abrams: Any other animal, character, either that you've played or from any other things, if you could stick them in the Jellicle world, who would you want to add to Cats?

[37:14] Petra Ilse Dam: Very difficult.

[37:16] Mike Abrams: I have a couple answers.

[37:18] Petra Ilse Dam: I'm very curious to your answers, because I can't think of anything now.

[37:22] Mike Abrams: I think of where there are already musical theater animals that could pop in, and that would be really fun. And so I think some of the Lion King stuff, like a young Simba, would be kind of fascinating in the Jellicle world, or even Pumbaa and Timon, the comedic relief of just throwing them in with Tugger or some other things like that. So I think you could stick some of those animals in there. I would be fascinated to see a Milky White from Into the Woods in there somehow. I think it could be a unique and strange storyline. There's a lot. There's a whole lot. I'm putting you on the spot on a very strange question.

[38:01] Petra Ilse Dam: The donkey from Shrek could also be very interesting and funny.

[38:11] Mike Abrams: My most important question. So I've argued at length that I don't think Grisabella's the right Jellicle choice. So I want to know, Petra, who is your Jellicle choice and why?

[38:21] Petra Ilse Dam: My Jellicle choice would be Gus, I think.

[38:27] Mike Abrams: Team Gus.

[38:27] Petra Ilse Dam: Team Gus. I think Gus deserved it. It's time for him. And Grisabella still has—she just got accepted. She can give still so much. She can teach the younger kittens so much, and it would be a pity to let her out of the community now already. I think there's much more to give before. And Gus did it already. It's time. He's old. He deserves it.

[38:57] Mike Abrams: That's my exact argument. So I'm 100% with you. I was not expecting you to say that because you've just spent 20 minutes telling me how much you dislike Jelly Lorm, and she spends her entire show trying to petition for Gus. So I thought you might be anti-Gus because of her.

[39:11] Petra Ilse Dam: No. Gus is a different character, and Jelly Lorm has also a beautiful side that she is caring and everything. It's just in my character's bum or whatever, I wouldn't be friends with her because she would annoy me because she does everything right and everything perfect.

[39:27] Mike Abrams: I love it. I love it. Well, I mean, I have no follow-up questions or countering, but that's exactly the way I feel. Grisabella should be welcomed back. She can spend her time hanging out with Bomb and the rest of the tribe and send Gus this year, and she can go next year or in a few years when she's ready.

[39:46] Petra Ilse Dam: People learn out of stories, so she can tell her story. She can share this and make people direct people in the right direction.

[39:57] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I love it. This has been so fun. How can people stay in touch with you on social media or any other ways on things you're working on?

[40:06] Petra Ilse Dam: They can follow me on Instagram, and that's Petra Eelzadam, my full name. And yes, and that's actually the only thing I have online.

[40:16] Mike Abrams: Okay. We will link it. So, again, thank you for coming on and sharing your stories, and this was super fun.

[40:23] Petra Ilse Dam: Yeah, thank you so much. It was lovely.

[40:26] Mike Abrams: Awesome. And thanks, everyone, for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast broken by Cass Ashby. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast, follow us on social media at TheWrongCatDied, or check our website at TheWrongCatDied.com.