This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:16] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest.

[0:21] Mike Abrams: She has been in multiple productions of Cats, most recently as Jennyanydots in last year's and early this year's Australian Tour. So welcome Leigh Archer, and thank you for joining me.

[0:31] Leigh Archer: Thank you. Lovely to be here.

[0:33] Mike Abrams: I'm excited to have you because I love that you've gotten to do this in different, like, with a pretty long gap in between.

[0:42] Leigh Archer: Like, you did it within 10 years apart in between.

[0:48] Mike Abrams: So you kind of, I've always loved Cats because you have that ability.

[0:51] Leigh Archer: I think it was more like 30 years apart.

[0:58] Mike Abrams: 30 years. Oh my God. You were right. I miss reading that. 30 years apart. Even crazier.

[0:58] Leigh Archer: It is even crazier. Yes.

[1:00] Mike Abrams: So let's start, though, with the beginning of learning about Cats, because you did it the first time in 1994. And this has been around for still 10 plus 12 plus years at this point. So what was your introduction to Cats the Musical for the first time you saw it, the first time we learned about it?

[1:21] Leigh Archer: So the first time I really knew about Cats was when I was actually auditioning for it. I knew it was around. I had been given a job as a dancer on the big football show, like the grand final. And we were actually dancing to this piece of music, and we found out that it was actually the music of the ball from Cats. So that was probably my first introduction to Cats. The choreographer had actually been in Cats the first time in Australia, and that was David Atkins. So that's probably why he chose that piece of music. And then I was in a musical and I was told, oh, you'd be great as a Demeter. We've got auditions coming up. Make sure you go. So that was sort of my next introduction. And I actually got the job of Demeter.

[2:17] Mike Abrams: So you did a piece of the Jellicle ball dancing at a football match.

[2:22] Leigh Archer: Yes, but it wasn't the choreography. We just had the music.

[2:27] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[2:28] Leigh Archer: And at the time, it was quite a big hype because it was like, oh, this is the music of Cats. And Cats had only just really come to Australia and had just been introduced to all of us.

[2:43] Mike Abrams: I can't imagine. I mean, I'm thinking I go to a lot of sporting events still myself, and I can't fathom going and seeing a halftime show or an interval at any point, just hearing a big 80s musical number in the middle of it. It's like such pop music and hip hop and all this stuff now. It'd be a little jarring, but I kind of love that.

[3:06] Leigh Archer: It was a long time ago. I was actually 14 at the time, and we were meant to be 16. So we all sort of lied about our age to get the job. So it was like my first professional job. So I was like this. I was just a young girl, really, just doing what I loved. And it was three weeks rehearsals, and then we did the big grand final and the flags flying. And I think there was over about 100 dancers within the whole performance.

[3:39] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So it was quite amazing.

[3:42] Leigh Archer: And this was in Sydney, Melbourne? Where was this?

[3:45] Leigh Archer: Sydney. In the city of Sydney, yeah.

[3:49] Mike Abrams: Amazing. Look, I like that you kind of fudged the numbers a little bit in there so you could get this job. You dance to the music of Cats at a football match. And then shortly after, they're like, hey, come audition. And they maybe don't care at your age at that point if you're 14, 15, or 16?

[4:10] Leigh Archer: No, now the timeline changes. So it was probably about 10 years later, I did my first musical, which was Joseph and his Technicolor Dreamcoat. And it was from there that then they said, come and audition for Cats.

[4:25] Mike Abrams: Okay, okay. So I've grown up a little bit.

[4:28] Leigh Archer: Yeah, you've done some other professional work, I'm sure. And you're doing another Andrew Lloyd Webber show. And now they're like, hey, you're ready to be Demeter. And so how did you prep for the audition? Like, at this point, the 1998 movie's not around. Like, there's less source material to go to at that point for Cats.

[4:50] Leigh Archer: Yeah, so I think I was just very, very naive, very young. And I know at the time, I remember the musical director in my audition going, focus, Lee, focus. Because I think I'd been working with him. And yeah, I get into the audition. I think I was just a little bit naive, thinking, oh, will I get this? I don't know. Here I am. La, la, la, la, la. And then he actually said, would you focus, Lee? So I realized, oh, okay, they're seriously looking at me for this. So yeah, I think I just went in and did whatever they wanted me to do.

[5:29] Mike Abrams: And then I'm always fascinated. It's got to be hard to look back at this a little bit at this point. You've had a long career and done many things, including just recently doing this. But what do you remember about the rehearsal room the first time you went through it, especially about Demeter's character? Because it always fascinates me that Demeter's plot is one of the few things that's accepted 100% truth across every production I've ever seen, is that the relationship with Macavity is 100%. It's always played that way. And so what was that for you? Do you remember going through and learning how to be a cat, but also learning this crazy, chaotic story?

[6:08] Leigh Archer: I can. I had the most wonderful experience. So I was doing my musical in Sydney, and the shows were crossing over. So I had to fly to Melbourne for rehearsals for Cats and then fly back and do the shows in Sydney of Joseph and his Technicolor Dreamcoat. So when I'd fly down, the show was already up and running in Melbourne. Cats was already running in Melbourne, so I was joining the cast. So I did a lot of the rehearsals on my own, just one-on-one with the director choreographer, Joanne Robinson. And then she brought the casting to work with me. It probably was in the last week. And to make me be a part of the show, we did this exercise where I was Demeter. I was the nervous, neurotic, scared.

Basically, they said, you know, Macavity used to attack my character, attack Demeter. So she's very fearful of Macavity. So being in this new environment with a whole lot of new people, I had to be absolutely terrified. And then as the other cast members came in, they had to calm me down. And I had to find trust within them as a group of people to then lean into being safe, if that makes sense. Am I making sense? And so I was thrown into this rehearsal room, and it was just this crazy interacting with everyone until they had all completely calmed me down. And it was this amazing, amazing feeling where I all of a sudden was accepted by the tribe of Cats. And we all felt it. It was great. So it was a real acting, connecting experience that really set me up for the whole of the tour.

[7:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah. There's got to be some nice, like, there's some truth in fearfulness of, like, you're coming in, and you are the new person in that part. So there's got to be a little bit of that almost, not fear, but that uncertainty as you walk into that room to begin with. And then you get to kind of harness that into the character, I'm sure. There's obviously the acting part of all this, but I also think a lot of the, like, how do you bring your personal life to those moments? And I've heard some crazy stories about, like, Grizabellas that they've purposefully held out from rehearsal rooms, so there's a little bit of animosity for when they come on stage and all this methodology that they've used. And so there is some probably truth to some of that just happening naturally.

[8:40] Leigh Archer: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But it really gives a depth to the show and to the characters, and I think the audience, do they pick up on it? I don't know. But hopefully it adds color and flavor to what the show is all about.

[9:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So now you're doing this show in Australia, and you go to Asia, you know, as part of this tour. What's the reaction like in 1994 for Cats? Like, this is, again, still, it's like a hit, right? Like, this is the peak of it for, you know, it's being introduced for the first time or really not the first time. I think it's been Australia before at that point. But it is, like, at its peak still.

[9:27] Leigh Archer: I think it could have been the first time overseas, maybe in Korea. When we went to Korea, we literally opened, it was three stories of audience, and it was like we were rock stars. They were absolutely standing and cheering for the whole of the performance. And there's a beautiful little scene where Demeter sings, she haunted many a little resort just to Grizabella. And in every other show that I'd done, it just, the music just continues on and Grizabella leaves the stage, and that's great. In Korea, the audience absolutely went, and cheered after the number. It was the most bizarre reaction because we'd never had that reaction in any other place. So they just, Korea just absolutely loved it. They were mad about it.

[10:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I've heard that over the years, because they were just recently there a couple years ago, and I know they're supposed to be going back, at least through other parts of Asia, this upcoming year. And they just have a massive love for the show. And almost, it feels a little opposite of Broadway at times, where Broadway, there's this massive debate right now about the etiquette of Broadway and of the audiences. And there, it seems like there's, it's not that it's bad etiquette, it's that just it's the pure joy and love for the show that is like the energy comes through throughout the entire thing versus kind of sitting and waiting for the clapping beats that should come later.

[11:05] Leigh Archer: Yeah, yeah. And I think we experienced that just recently with this last tour. Certain towns we went to just loved it, like Melbourne. Melbourne's a big theatre place, very different to our Perth audience, where they're a little bit more reserved. Melbourne just loved it on their feet, and the passion that came from the audience was quite amazing.

[11:47] Leigh Archer: Well, first of all, if you'd asked me if I'd be in Cats again, I would have absolutely laughed and said, don't be ridiculous. Because I think when I finished it back all those years ago, I felt so fulfilled, so rewarded, and my body literally, I went, yeah, I will not be able to do that again. So, to come back, and what am I? I'm 56. So, to come back as a 56-year-old, I went, okay, I'm playing an older character, and I'm the motherly character. And I went for the audition, and I went, well, we'll give it a go, see what happens. And they got me into the dance room, which was for the movers, not the singers that moved, not a dance corps. I went, this is great. And we started doing a step from the ball, and I went, oh, my God, I can't do this.

This is ridiculous. And then all of a sudden, my body went, oh, I know what this is. And this muscle memory came in, and it just felt fantastic. Of course, my legs weren't up over my head. They were 90 and 45 degrees. I just worked the upper body. And yeah, the muscle memory was just amazing. And I'm pretty sure that's the reason why I was able to get through this time. I also thought, oh, an older character, the mum role, it's going to be a lot easier. Of course, this time round, little did I know that they'd actually re-choreographed the whole tap routine. And it was now this huge, huge, full-on tap number, which was very different to when I did it back 30 years ago. So, I really had it. Oh, yeah, it was quite a shock coming into the rehearsal room going, oh, my gosh.

And you know how we're just talking about Tommy before he was teaching us the show. And I said, Tommy, I can't tap that fast. And he goes, yet. You can't tap that fast, yet. And he was so supportive, because by the time we did get to opening night, you're breezing through it. You're going, yeah, this is it. I can do it. But yeah, big, big shock to the system 30 years later.

[14:07] Leigh Archer: There's been a lot of talk about how Cats is one of the few shows that you really can do throughout your career, on the male side, the female side, whatever, any in between. There's just a character at every stage of life that you can keep doing until you're Gus, essentially, until you do the Gus character. But almost all of them still are really heavy dance numbers. Like, there's Grizabella now on a lot of, especially the tours, dances the opening number a lot. And there's just not a lot of breaks in there. So, I kind of love hearing you're ready in the mover section, as you called it, the singer section. But then it's like, no, you're still going to do a lot of dancing through this whole show.

Oh, yeah. Non-stop, non-stop. And actually, I look back and I go, I'm very proud of what I achieved, because it was a beautiful gift given to me that allowed me to get my body back into the dancing and performing. I've been working as a singer mover for so many years. My dancing is calling myself a dancer. I wouldn't have done that anymore. But now, after doing Cats, I go, yep, I'm a dancer. I can dance. And it was a beautiful gift for me to be able to do it, yeah, and have that challenge and to have people believe that I could do it was really wonderful as well.

[15:29] Mike Abrams: When you walked into the rehearsal room this time, how much of your original Demeter, the story that you had from back then, you're bringing into this? Are you embracing the new Demeter and being the motherly Jenny in the rehearsal? I've talked to a few people, I haven't had any recordings with the cast yet, but I've talked to a handful of them. And it's like, you are dealing with a younger group that's, in some cases, early in their career. And it truly is like the kittens that you have to be the mother to.

[16:09] Leigh Archer: Absolutely. Actually, one of the beautiful boys I worked with, he's the same age and the same birthday as my own son. So, it's like, you know, we are a generation apart. So, coming into the rehearsal room, I did find it very daunting. I think a lot of them are like, who the hell is she anyway? You know, being the older, you know, I don't feel older, you know, but I can see that they'd look at me and go, what's she doing here? And I think it took a while just to warm, you know, to be accepted. It is that a lot of them had worked together before. So, yeah, it takes a while to be accepted. And I think the whole time I always was the older woman in the show, too.

[16:54] Mike Abrams: Were they teaching you TikTok and trying to get you into their dances and everything?

[16:59] Leigh Archer: They were busy. They didn't bother doing that. Yeah, they were all doing that. I did one little video with one of the guys, which was great fun, but we all jumped on that. But it's very different times, too. I'm finding the protocols of backstage and the etiquette of how you behave is very different to what I've been used to and to the cats in the past. So, yeah, I think that did make a big difference to coming back doing the show again.

[17:27] Mike Abrams: Can you speak a little bit more to that? Because I am fascinated by the cats stuff does really well on social media because it's like, it's jarring when you're just scrolling through and you're doing the social media, whatever scrolling you're doing on whatever platform, it stands out. It really stands out to have somebody in a full cats costume. And so it does really well and you see a lot of it. And at the same time, I hear these crazy stories of tours where you're between shows walking around a city in full cats costumes, you're not getting out of or out of the makeup. But it's before the times of a phone, a camera phone and having that kind of like that interaction and you have those kind of unique experiences that aren't just being documented at all times. So what was it like kind of doing this craziness of a show and having those experiences, again, three decades apart with the technology being so different?

[18:27] Leigh Archer: Well, we had a lot of this protocol of how you were to video yourself or to send photos out of yourself and you weren't to, I think your eye had to be in full costume or not at all. Be very mindful of not to be with a human. Just so for the sizing and to make sure. Yeah, I think there's a lot of thought that had to go into whatever went out on social media. Yes, and back in the day, we never had to worry about that. We weren't allowed to go outside with our makeup on. I know that.

[19:14] Mike Abrams: Okay, so you didn't go between shows and that definitely happens now. We see people out in between the matinee and the night show just roaming around.

[19:20] Leigh Archer: That would be publicity. That's especially done, if you know what I mean. It's not like, well, for us as a rule, we weren't allowed to leave the theater. If we had our makeup on, we could keep our eye makeup on and we had to wear sunglasses and you had to take the rest off. Yeah, we weren't allowed to be seen outside in our cat's makeup or costumes. I think there was a lot of publicity that was done where you were fully dressed as a cat and they'd take you out into the streets, but that was very guided and also publicity, I'd say.

[20:06] Mike Abrams: I'd love to hear a little bit about the relationships you played with the other characters. I'll go through both of them as Demeter first and then as Jenny because the Demeter one, there's a lot of uncertainty with how you approached relationships. With Demeter, with Bombay Arena, are they sisters? Are they lovers? Are they best friends? All these other things. Did you definitively nail some of that down as you're doing this show? It's easier to talk about Jenny because you did that more recently. I'm always fascinated by what did you define and what was just inferred because you didn't really need to know?

[20:46] Leigh Archer: Well, I think you can take it as far as you want. A lot of it can be just in your own head. You can change the story and the relationships. I think back when I did Demeter, my Bombay Arena, she's a friend, a mentor, an older character that nurtured me a little bit. To me, she was the one that's out and about and really sexual and she's probably protecting me because she knew that supposedly Macavity had attacked. The story was that Demeter had been raped by Macavity. That was back in my day. I'm not quite sure if that's the story now. I don't know if they go that far, but it was very intense.

[21:34] Leigh Archer: It's the craziest thing to me that that's the one thing everyone agrees on. Of all the different things that people can say, no, I think that using Bomb and Demeter, some people think they're sisters for sure. Yeah, there's that sisterly connection. But 100% of casts. It's fascinating to me. But that's the storyline, too, because there has to be a reason why when Macavity arrives, Demeter's always the one that goes berserk and he's paranoid. It's Macavity. So, she's the one that has that total terror of him arriving every time because she feels he's going to come to get her again. He interrupts the night, well, supposedly at least three times, I think. It's meant to be Macavity and it's not, and then we think, oh, it's Macavity and it's not, and then it finally is. Macavity is here. So, yeah, it's quite a big storyline. So, to have that reaction, I guess that's why it's always stuck and been quite a story that's led through, maybe.

[22:47] Leigh Archer: What about with Jenny Anydots? How did you play the relationships with Grizabella and with any of the other Old Deuteronomy, all those different characters? Okay, so my connection with Griz is that we used to be great friends. We used to put on shows, we used to be the showgirls of the tribe, and then Grizabella decided she wanted more and she left the tribe. I found that very hurtful and very disappointing and maybe that as Jenny Anydots, I was like, how dare she leave us and leave me to look after all the young ones? We had a team act, a show going on, and she took off to find bigger things. Did she find them? Maybe for a little bit, but then she sort of went down the wrong pathway. So, when she comes back,

[23:35] Leigh Archer: Grizabella comes back to the tribe. It takes Jennyanydots a little bit to warm up and open her heart up and accept her back in. But she does. She does. Okay. So, best friends and then... Does Jenny consider herself like a candidate for the Heaviside Layer? Like, are you playing into... I really want to be, like, tonight's my night. And that's why I put on this whole performance. I've rehearsed the whole year and I've got all the other kittens and that to dress up as the cockroaches and the mice because I'm presenting myself and going, here I am. I'm all ready. So, yeah, my whole number is all about... It's like the beginning of the show to say, take me, take me. Yeah. And then your old friend comes in and ruins the night.

Ruins the night. So, I'm really quite peeved about that. Yes. Yeah. But then I soften. And that's why when she comes, we want her to go all the time. We get away and you're just revolting your smell now. You're not like you used to be. You're just a dirty old cat. Go away. Yes. You do see that we do eventually warm up. Well, Jenny does open her heart up to her and accept her right at the very end.

[24:54] Mike Abrams: Mm hmm. When you, I mean, you've now done again, done the show twice. And I imagine the first time your family comes through and watches it as you're younger and Demeter, you have to explain the chaos of this show. But what was it like the second time? You know, like now when you have like your son coming through or you have your family watching you perform this show, the show now has got a lot more opportunities to see it. There's the 2019 movie. There's the new stuff on Broadway. It's coming back to London. You know, like there's variations. What prep did you give to any family member or friend that was going to come see you as to this is what Cats is going to be? Or did you just say, come in and watch and figure it out?

[25:39] Leigh Archer: My husband and my son came on the Sydney opening night. And I believe at one stage, my husband turned to my son and went, this just got really weird. But he, my husband's been back for about five other times and he loves it. He says, I don't understand the story. But he said, I love the music and the dancing and the singing. So he loves the whole thing. I think my son, they were quite surprised. Was this the first time he'd seen it? Yes. And my son, they were very shocked at the amount of dancing I was doing and how hard I was working. I took on a whole level of respect in the household. Afterwards, they were like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, you rest. We'll run a bath for you. You rest. Yeah, it was when they saw it, it really did open their eyes.

And of course, my mum came and my brother and my brother's been a performer in musicals many years ago. And he just went, he looked at and said, my body just hurts watching you. Yeah. And mum says, I cannot believe you're doing what you're doing at your age. So they're all very proud. And yeah, blown away. So lovely, lovely.

[26:54] Leigh Archer: It is a huge takeaway. The first time I saw the show as a non-dancer, non-theatre person is I was like really fascinated by the athleticism that I saw. Just not, you know, I'd not been to that many shows where they're just dancing the entire time. And I kept looking going like, you know, for me, I'd seen a sporting event like the night before. And I was like, I just watched two extremely different, but the same level of athleticism. What they're doing is different. But the training that has to go into that, the endurance that has to go into that, especially a show like Cats, your one break is, well, I guess you get to lay down before your song for a little bit. But generally your break is Mungojerrie and Rumple Teaser. And that's it. Like the rest of the time you're out there.

[27:40] Leigh Archer: Yeah. Yeah. It is one show where you are on stage most of the time. There's not you don't sit around backstage very often at all. So and when you're on stage, you constantly have to be on. So you still have to be in character. You still have to be focused, have to be committed. Otherwise, you just look like a human dressed up as a cat. So the more you can actually lean into it and be and you don't have to move, you can just sit very still. But you have to be committed to that sitting still and have that story going on in your in your mind to to make it make it real.

[28:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I love to hear some of the memories that you have from doing this, especially the first time. What are some of the stuff that like are burned into your brain that you're just never going to forget from that experience? Either funny moments or things that were unique from that experience. And then the same thing for this past year. What are some of the highlights?

[28:36] Leigh Archer: Oh, my goodness. Oh, gosh, I when I first did it, well, to be able to tour with the show and to go overseas was just quite quite spectacular. It was a beautiful opportunity. The talent of people that you're always working with, there's so much talent with everybody and you learn and and you laugh and, you know, you play with people all the time. So that's always beautiful. This time around, what was lovely is having some people that I worked with 30 years ago come and see the show and I'd catch up with them afterwards. And that was always, oh, it's just beautiful because I hadn't might not have seen them since I did the show. But coming back together, we had this beautiful connection of of the show and an understanding of what it's like to do the show. So they were that was always a beautiful highlight to this time around.

[29:35] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Are you trying to talk them into coming back, being like, hey, you're ready to do this character?

[29:41] Leigh Archer: Oh, man, why not? Look, I think I'm being one of the lucky ones that have still been able to do it and keep keep performing. And I really hope that continues on. I think a lot of people do move on into other areas with their life and careers. So, yeah, but there is a lovely bond and understanding.

[30:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah, which is really, really nice. What was I know you talked a little bit about performing in Korea. What was Singapore like there? Because it's again, this is you're going in the 90s. It's the country's only 25, 30 years old at the point, you know, like it's it's still it's it's probably not what I live there for a little bit. But, you know, it's modernized so fast. But what was the reaction? Because that's got to be the first time or one of the early times that Cats went to Singapore.

[30:32] Leigh Archer: Yeah, look, Singapore to me, I think Singapore is the first place we went to. And it seemed very strict and very clean and very well behaved. And you weren't there. Rules and regulations walking down the street. So by the time we did fly into Hong Kong and there's lights and a bigger vibe. So I can't actually quite remember the audience reactions. Yeah, it's received beautifully as a show, but nothing that makes you go, ah, the Singapore audience. We had a we had a pop star, a Singaporean pop star as our Grizabella when we're in Singapore. And that was that was. Yeah. So that was exciting. So that was the real get the bums on seats. They'd come to see her as well.

[31:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I'm kind of fascinated when I lived there, I went to one theater experiences. It was it was a very what's the right word, like laid back and very respectful crowd, but not the most into it. But then I went to a basketball game and it was like rowdy. And so that's what I was like. I just was I was very curious of how they approached it, because like I did, you know, I've only had small experiences myself. But it's also, you know, years later as well.

[31:54] Leigh Archer: Yeah. That that long ago, I'm finding I couldn't actually say yes. I think they're just a very normal audience. If you know, you know, a respectful cast fan theater audience. Yeah. Yeah. It was when we went to Korea that the audience we went, oh, my gosh, we're a rock. It's a rock concert. That was the big change.

[32:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And what would you notice about the difference in the most recent run of like again, Cats has been well known now. Like it's not the playing the joker ball on a soccer football for now, like a halftime. It is. Yeah, it's a round like it is a very well known piece. So was it a much more rowdy and audience?

[32:37] Leigh Archer: I think the passion that the audience brings in and even even the younger cast members, they all grew up going. I want to be in Cats. You know, Cats. Yeah, they've all grown up on Cats. And you look out into the audience and some nights you had people dressed just like we were. Yeah, they just had so much passion. One lady flew a whole family from one city to another. And they don't just come back once. I'll come back to three times, four times. Some of the diehard fans and just all the beautiful little. Little cards and little handmade tales and things that get left at stage door for us all, you just go, oh, my gosh, the the passion and the love for this show is amazing.

[33:26] Leigh Archer: Yeah, it's it's universally loved regionally across the world. It has its haters, but I think you either love it or you hate it.

[33:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. But you're right that I think there's this moment of especially after the 1998 movie came out, a lot of people grew up learning dance because of that or like watching that VHS and watching that tape. So there is a you know, as I as I've interviewed so many people, there's so many people I've talked to who are like, I learned I watch that movie all the time. And I dance because of that. I want to be the white cat or I want to be this one because of watching that that movie. And I can only imagine how many people had their their love for dance amplified because of that one piece of Cats, you know, VHS. And so to hear that you like your cast now is a group of that. Grew up on it is is part of what I'm sure makes it fun, because they also have probably their own theories and they have their own thoughts. And it's not completely new to them and learning something. It is it's known material.

[34:32] Leigh Archer: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes. And it hasn't really dated. Most of it is all the same as what it was when it originally started. So it's lasted the time it's it really hasn't. Yes, things have changed. And but it really has. Yeah, carried through right down to the sets and the lighting and you step away and it really does look quite spectacular and it's all live like there's no recorded vocals. Everyone's singing, singing and dancing. It's all. Yeah. It is just what you see is what what you get, you know, beautiful.

[35:16] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break and the way back for more of the wrong cat died. Let's do some rapid fire because I want to get to.

[35:22] Leigh Archer: Back before now you've come back, you're interrupting our big night and you want to step in and go to the Heaviside Layer. Uh-uh, we don't want that, so go away. So when she does get chosen, that's where I think a lot of the story of the show is, where it's forgiveness. It's we forgive her and we go, yes, well, she probably does need to, I don't know. And what is the Heaviside Layer anyway? Like, that's always a big question. That's the complete question for anybody that argues with or against this is, is that what your definition of that is? Because I viewed it as death when I saw the show, and I was like, you sing this beautiful number, your family finally welcomes you back, you've spent this whole time being completely an outcast, they say yes, we want you, and then it's like, and now we're gonna kill you.

Like, we're now gonna... I think, and so that was what didn't sit with me. No, we'll see on any directional level, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that the cat dies now and goes to cat heaven. It's always been directed as you're the chosen one to go to this new life up in the Heaviside Layer, which is the cat. Well, they never say it's a cat heaven and that the cat dies. You've been chosen just to have a new life, a new beginning. You know, you've done, you've used your nine lives, see the tenth one, but you're gonna live it up there, which is better.

[36:52] Leigh Archer: Yeah, I mean, that's where my argument has been. It's, yeah, well, I guess it's however you want to interpret it. Yeah, I'm not so open to interpretation completely. And you know, there's like four or five people in the world that can truly answer this. And so we can ask them. I was recently next to Andrew Lloyd Webber at the opening of the Joel Cabaret, and I did not want to ask him because I don't want to know. I'd rather keep arguing with people, right? Have him tell me definitively his answer. But it is kind of an open-ended question that makes the difference in the argument of what you believe that next thing is. Yes, because I also go, well, why do we all want to go there if, you know, as other cats? Yes, take me, take me, I want to go, I want to go, why? Yeah, if it is the death sting, the death, you know, you're done, it's meant to be a better place that you go to, whatever that is, true, whatever that is.

[37:52] Leigh Archer: And that's the beauty of it. And that's where, you know, you should ask your confused husband who had no idea what he was watching if he has any interpretation of what the Heaviside Layer is.

[38:22] Mike Abrams: Yes, I should actually. We should have that little conversation. And I'm assuming nobody in your cast talks about this, like there's that debate is not happening.

[38:44] Leigh Archer: No, I do remember too, I think I worked with a performer who'd done the show before he came back this time in an interview, and he said, I still have no idea what Cats the musical is all about second time around. So it's what you make of it, you know? And I had one of the young little cats come up to me, she goes, you're my mother. I go, oh, am I? Okay, I'm glad I know that now. But her story was that I was her mother in the show. So I think for every cast, you can create different connections, and that's the beauty with the direction is they allow you to do that, and they want you to do that. The more that you can create your own story, the more it becomes an individual performance. And every production is very, very different with its characters and how they interact. Yes, there's a through line, but there's so much else that can be created, and you've been given the freedom to do that as well.

[39:52] Leigh Archer: I think that's why it works and has lasted for so long because it isn't a 100 percent set, you've got to do this this way every single night with zero interpretation. There are things that have to be done like that, but you have a little bit more freedom to play, which has to make it a lot more fun and easier as a performer to have a little bit more of that. Tonight I might be a little bit more standoffish to this other cat that I, you know, just because maybe they bugged me as the person or just in general. And it's not going to change, there's a super fan that might notice, but most people are not going to notice that difference. But it makes it fresh for you as a performer.

[41:14] Leigh Archer: Oh, absolutely. And that's the key to do it eight shows a week, night after night after night. You need to find that joy in that. And there are days where your body just aches, and just crawling on your hands and knees is like, oh, and to get from the floor to standing and to find different ways to do that is, well, I guess part of the craft and the discipline of being a musical theater performer. But they also say that if a person came and watched the show night after night, each night they should be able to follow a different character and they'd get a whole different perspective of the show. And that's where the commitment and the focus of being the cat and having your own story is important.

[42:40] Leigh Archer: Yeah, you can't take a night off because you're out there, you're all out there. And I, you know, the first time I saw it, I really watched who was singing. Like, I kind of like followed that. The second and third time, especially now, the most recent times when I see it now that I know way too much, you know, early on I watched the twins. Like, I watch Tantomile because I'm fascinated by them turning faster. And so like there are things like that that you start to pick up as you learn more about the show. And there is a fandom that comes in and will watch like just syllabub tonight or just this person tonight and really hone in on how they're interacting with people. And a lot of the lore of Cats comes from a super fan who has watched two performers who might have done something that night that does not necessarily always match what you would expect. And they're like, oh, maybe this is now a relationship between those characters or this is now something that happens here. And that's where a lot of these stories come from.

[44:12] Leigh Archer: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful to have that freedom on stage to play and perform.

[44:19] Mike Abrams: Wow, this has been so fun. Is this truly the last time? Are you saying no more to Cats ever or you're still open to it?

[44:26] Leigh Archer: Never say never. Now it's now and forever, truly.

[44:34] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yes, it's lovely. My husband said when I left the last show, he said, bring, get your tap shoes because my tap shoes had little sparkles all over them. I said, oh, why do we want my tap shoes? You know, I'll just sit in the car. He goes, no, get your tap shoes. So I asked, and I was gifted my tap shoes, and now they sit in a beautiful light box at the end of our bar. And I look at them, I go, I'm so glad he suggested I get them because I look at them, I go, yeah, it's a lovely token and memory to have. So every time I see them and light the box up, I think of my little tapping routines.

[46:07] Leigh Archer: That's lovely. It's lovely, but never say never. You never know what's around the corner.

[46:13] Mike Abrams: How can people stay in touch with you? Either social media, website, anything to if you, yeah, for whatever is next for you?

[46:19] Leigh Archer: Yeah, well, Instagram, social media. Yeah, I'm not a huge poster, posting, you know, but yes, Instagram, I'm on Instagram.

[46:26] Mike Abrams: Awesome, we'll link that, and hopefully something else comes up soon.

[46:32] Leigh Archer: Yeah, yeah, whatever the next thing on the stage will, everyone will have to come see you.

[46:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that'd be lovely.

[46:42] Leigh Archer: Beautiful, amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your experiences.

[46:46] Leigh Archer: Ah, thank you so much, Mike. It's lovely to meet you.

[46:50] Mike Abrams: Great to meet you, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breaking down the catastrophe. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or announce the podcast. Follow us on social media at The Wrong Cat Died or check our website, thewrongcatdied.com.