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[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams. And today we have another amazing guest. He was the magical Mr. Mistoffelees on the US National Tour 5 of Cats. So welcome, Ryan Jackson, and thank you for joining me.

[0:28] Ryan Jackson: Good morning.

[0:30] Mike Abrams: Excited to have you. Dee, when I had her on, was like, you have to have Ryan on. And so I've talked to a lot of your cast now. I know like the tour 5 went for like 15 or 16 years. So I've always trying to place like where everyone was. But you were in the early stretch of this, I believe, right? So you were in the 2002, I think it started in 2000, maybe or 2001?

[0:51] Ryan Jackson: Yes, correct. 2001, 2002, I believe.

[0:54] Mike Abrams: Okay, so you weren't in the first group, you were in the second group, right? Or were you in the very first group?

[0:58] Ryan Jackson: Yeah, year two.

[0:59] Mike Abrams: Year two. Okay. So we're gonna come back to the tour. Let's start with Cats introduction. When did you first learn about the show? Was it the 1998 movie? Did you see it on Broadway? Like, when were you introduced to Cats?

[1:12] Ryan Jackson: Well, I'm from Long Island, New York. And I went to college in Manhattan. And so my freshman year of college, I booked Radio City. And one of the guys in Radio City with me was going back to do Cats. He's like, you should come see the show. Absolutely. I bring a bunch of my dance major friends, we go. And the show was incredible, because it's just beautiful dancers, incredible singing. But I walked away being like, what was that? And then a year later, when it went out on tour, or two years later, it went out on tour, I booked the role of Mistoffelees. And I went out and instantly have a different appreciation for it, because you're in it.

[1:56] Mike Abrams: Yeah, totally. So this is, how long had it been on Broadway at that point? Like, it's not new at this point. But it's still like, is it well known at this point for you at that point?

[2:06] Ryan Jackson: Yeah, I mean, it was the longest running show on Broadway for decades. They actually did a beautiful Passing of the Torch when Phantom surpassed it as the longest running, which are both Andrew Lloyd Webber shows. And so at the curtain call, the white cat comes out, and she does the little paw in the hand, doing the Passing of the Torch. And it was kind of beautiful. That happened, I want to say, early 2000s as well. So it had been around for at least a decade or two before I saw it.

[2:43] Mike Abrams: So you'd never been introduced, never danced it in class or seen the movie? Was it just kind of in the ether for you? Or was that true of the introduction?

[2:53] Ryan Jackson: I mean, it was part of the zeitgeist. It had been around for decades. But no, my dad's a police officer. I didn't come in and see Broadway shows when I was younger. So I didn't see it until I was working with someone currently in the Broadway show.

[3:07] Mike Abrams: Okay, okay. So you walked out, confused, beautiful dancing, no idea what I watched.

[3:12] Ryan Jackson: No idea.

[3:13] Mike Abrams: And then you book it, right? How long after is that? A couple years?

[3:19] Ryan Jackson: I would say about a year and a half after.

[3:21] Mike Abrams: Oh, so just really shortly after. Okay, so then bring me to the rehearsal room, and you get told the story. And what is the mindset of that moment?

[3:31] Ryan Jackson: I mean, I feel like it's nonsensical. I feel like they didn't even try to tell you the story. When we got into rehearsals, there's all this backstory, like layers of stuff that we never tell the audience, but doesn't come across in any of the staging or any of the lyrics. So I came into it as a dancer who was terrified of singing. And so my goal was just to get through my few little singing lines and dance to the best of my ability. I wasn't really invested in the plot.

[4:04] Mike Abrams: No story.

[4:04] Ryan Jackson: No story at all.

[4:06] Mike Abrams: Make sure you make your turns and then hit your few lines, and the rest is just irrelevant to you.

[4:12] Ryan Jackson: Yeah. Well, I mean, Gillian Lynn came into rehearsal one day, original choreographer. So everyone is terrified, just nerves. And we're in this small rehearsal space. And my friend, Eric Chorey, who played Pounceable, the first thing he does in the opening is this pas de chat into a kind of like a penché, but his hands are touching the floor. Back attitude. And he just wanted to be so good for her. And he slammed his head against the mirror and we were like, and then she stops the run after we get through Victoria Solo, the white cat. And she talks to us about how it's a sexual awakening. And we're all gobsmacked because this, you know, dame is talking to us about sex. And I'm not going to tell you the story because she's the treasure, but we were all just jaws on the floor. Like, oh, I thought we were just cats. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

[5:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So this is, I've always been fascinated by this entire aspect of the show because I've heard the story of like, Gillian Lynn will come in and talk about the fact that like, the paw shake is like an orgasm. And like, you know, it's like this whole thing is like, you go into the detail of that in the rehearsals. And like, that is a clear part of the story. And then it's also like, but yes, kids are everywhere. Like, this is the number one show you're bringing children to outside of the Lion King at the time. And it's always been kind of unique to me that like, there's so much of this unwritten story that's very clearly told to you all, but not the audience and a few people pick it up. But if you come see it the first time, you know, the first time I saw it, I did not think, wow, that's what's happening with the white cat.

I was like, that is a very talented dancer doing body movements, I can't even fathom. And I was impressed by it. I never thought that she was being lifted by her partner, you know, all these things that now I've learned. And so I can't even I can't even put myself into the room as you're like, you're learning that for the first time.

[6:28] Ryan Jackson: Yeah, this beautiful over the head tress where she's in a stag split. And then we find out that that's where she's losing her virginity. And you're like, Oh, okay. I was just thinking about pointing my feet and you know, being on my leg, but cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

[6:32] Mike Abrams: So did you go into all the other stuff? Like, I mean, how much has talked to like, there's this like, entire fandom on Mistoffelees and Tugger, you know, like there's that's a huge amount of the artwork and stories like, was that something that you talked about? Or is that just a, you know, you're learning as you go?

[6:47] Ryan Jackson: They give you the lore as you're in rehearsal, just so you can start to build your connections. But a lot of it is actor driven. But also wildly enough, I ended up dating my Tugger for four years after the tour. So I mean, it kind of happens with your staging, it kind of happens with your choreography. And then because there's a very thin wisp of a plot, you do lean into when they give you the lore about this and that.

[7:16] Mike Abrams: Was there certain days that you leaned in harder on certain things? Other days, you're like, we're not playing that today. You know, like, how much of this is show to show?

[7:23] Ryan Jackson: I mean, it's also a show where you're crawling around on stage and dancing so hard that your mics aren't on sometimes. So it was probably one of the most fun theatrical experiences I've ever had. Because like, it's an ensemble show. So everyone is important. And no one is important. Almost everyone has a solo or a feature, but then they fall back into the ensemble. So the storytelling pops in and out, or the weight of the storytelling pops in and out on each individual. But you're having fun, you're being silly, you're playing games that the audience shouldn't see, you know, so the plot comes in and out.

[8:04] Mike Abrams: Was there any of those like lore or plot points that y'all tried, and then you're just like, this one did not work. Like, I can't like, there's no way these two are brothers or friends or something that you attempted. Because like, there's a super fandom that will pick up on the tonight you all try this. And I love that part of the lore.

[8:24] Ryan Jackson: Now you're making me feel like a bad actor. No, I don't think we leaned into the acting aspects that much. But I feel like we did lean into playing murderer, or, you know, like a zoo. And you'd have to, you know, incorporate murdering someone in the middle of the show, and they would have to fall down. But you could get away with it because people are literally crawling on their hands and knees. So no, not so much leaning into the plot aspect, but the fun. And I think that's what the audience loves. I think they love feeling the energy, even if they don't know what's happening.

[9:01] Ryan Jackson: You know, it's like, it's like, essentially, if you walk into a conversation, and like, two friends are laughing, and they're laughing so hard that you start to laugh, you have no idea what they're laughing about. But that energy is infectious. And so I think the fact that the show is utter nonsense, allows a freedom, and then the joy on stage invites the audience in.

[9:25] Mike Abrams: I love that analogy of like, the two friends laughing, because that is definitely cats. You don't know what you're watching, but you're in it with everyone else. I saw a very regional production, and I remember at intermission, the guy's like, I don't know, it's like, the dancing's great, the singing's great. He's like, the performances are great, but I have no idea what's going on. And he was like, loving it. And so I think that's very true. I want to go back to having fun and the game Murder, it sounds like, that you're playing, because I've always, I love this. I work a corporate job. I don't have this like, eight times a week of the exact performance that you all have to do for a year plus, or for even longer, and having to keep it fresh.

And I've always thought that Cats is a cool opportunity to really have more fun doing that than probably some other shows where it's very clear that you have to hit your marks. But you all are, like you said, you're behind, and there's almost all of you on stage all the time. So you have a little bit more freedom to get away with some stuff. Tell me more about Murder. Are you on stage, like, you have to essentially try to point a finger at somebody and get them to fall? Or like, how does this work?

[10:22] Ryan Jackson: Touch them and blink, and they're supposed to fall. And I remember Dee going, Dee Rossioli was our Grizabella, and it's the end of the show, and she's going through the procession, and everyone's like, oh, sorry, we were so mean to you. And everyone's like, touching her, and she walks down, and holding her paw, and blinking, and her eyes getting big, and then her stumbling. She wasn't going to go to the floor. But she was like, okay, I see you. It's just fun. It's one of those things where, luckily, you're able to use your craft to camouflage the aspects where you pull yourself out of the storytelling.

[11:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah. What other things do you do? There's got to be more than just that. How do you keep a show like this fresh when you're doing it in different cities, and the same show over, and over, and over again? Did you play any other games? Did you have any other moments to try to find ways to keep it exciting and new for you?

[11:30] Ryan Jackson: The show is incredible. It's a big thing. It's a very hard physical show. Any given show, you're in a different configuration because we had swings, and the swings covered a multitude of parts. Every show was different because someone was nursing an injury. Someone was dealing with allergies in the new city. Even though you're doing the same show eight times a week, who you're playing with is different. In the end, they will say the line and do the dance step as they're told. But the way they do that, the colors with which they imbue their choices informs you. It's different.

[12:16] Mike Abrams: So this is early in your career, right? Is it your first professional contract?

[12:22] Ryan Jackson: My first professional contract was Radio City right out of high school. And then I went back to college for two years. And then I left college for a year to do the national tour. And then I went back to college again.

[12:34] Mike Abrams: Okay. So I'm very curious about, again, this is such a big show. It's a very well-known show. You're going from city to city. What were some of the things you've learned from that experience that you brought to other things you did later in your career?

[12:49] Ryan Jackson: I would say be an advocate for yourself. Because being on the road, as a dancer, we're trained to do it, do it again, be better, right? It's like repetition is your teacher. Where an actor, singer listens to their voice, plays with their intentions, where we're told, do it, do it again, do it again. And so there's a lot of wear and tear injuries from that. And so being able to advocate for yourself where you're saying, do I pull back to maybe 85%, 90% and do the show? Or do I take the show off and let them get 100% from the cover? Also, getting injured, being on the road, going to doctors and them saying, what do you need? I'm not a doctor, I would like you to look at my knee or my hip or my beep or my boop.

And then being like, I don't know, two days off the show and a muscle relaxer? I don't know, is that what I'm supposed to be saying? So it was very weird to, at such a young age, be given professional responsibility and then learning to advocate for yourself because you can only do so much. And your responsibility is both to yourself and to the production and to the people you do the production with. So you're constantly switching hats.

[14:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's interesting to hear you say that because I know there was in the theater world, there was a hot take that kind of... I mean, it made more noise than I think it should. It was kind of taken out of context, but I forget who it was. But someone said that they're not always giving 100%, they're giving 70% or something. And then we're recording this during a lot of...

[15:29] Ryan Jackson: You know when you walk into a conversation and two friends are laughing so hard you start to laugh? You have no idea what they are laughing about, but the energy is infectious. I think that the fact this show is utter nonsense, it allows a freedom so then the joy on stage invites the audience in.

[15:59] Ryan Jackson: My first exposure to CATS was when I was a kid. I remember seeing the commercials on TV and being completely fascinated by the costumes and the music. It was just something that stuck with me.

[16:29] Ryan Jackson: When I finally got to see it live, I was blown away. The energy in the theater was electric, and I knew I wanted to be a part of that world.

[16:59] Ryan Jackson: Rehearsals were filled with unwritten lore. There were so many stories and traditions that had been passed down through the cast. It was like being part of a secret club where everyone had their own little quirks and inside jokes.

[17:29] Ryan Jackson: Gillian Lynne had such a unique perspective on choreography. She would often share insights that were surprising, and it really made you think about the movement in a different way.

[17:59] Ryan Jackson: Touring was such an ensemble-driven experience. We had so much fun on stage, and there were always little games happening during performances that kept things fresh and exciting.

[18:19] Ryan Jackson: The influence of superfans was incredible. They would create amazing fan art and share their love for the show, which really motivated us to give our best every night.

[18:29] Ryan Jackson: Constant cast changes kept performances fresh. Every new person brought their own energy and interpretation to the role, which made each show feel unique.

[18:39] Ryan Jackson: One of my favorite parts of the process was the pre-show ritual of applying Cats makeup. It was a transformative experience that helped me get into character and set the tone for the performance.

[18:59] Ryan Jackson: That experience with makeup eventually led me to a career as a makeup supervisor on Broadway. It was a natural progression for me, and I loved every moment of it.

[19:29] Ryan Jackson: The entrance of Mistoffelees is such a pivotal moment in the show. It’s filled with anticipation and excitement, and I always felt the energy shift in the audience when it was time for that moment.

[19:49] Ryan Jackson: Makeup played a huge role in my career origins. I learned so much about the art of transformation and how it can enhance a performance.

[20:19] Ryan Jackson: Cats: The Jellicle Ball is such a vibrant and chaotic scene. It’s a celebration of all the characters, and it’s a joy to be a part of that ensemble.

[20:39] Ryan Jackson: Rapid fire questions are always fun. They keep you on your toes and allow for some spontaneous moments that can be really entertaining.

[20:59] Ryan Jackson: I love connecting with fans on social media. It’s amazing to see how passionate people are about the show and how it has impacted their lives.

[21:29] Ryan Jackson: I think the magic of CATS lies in its ability to bring people together. It’s a shared experience that creates lasting memories.

[21:49] Ryan Jackson: The camaraderie among the cast was something special. We all supported each other and celebrated our successes together.

[22:09] Ryan Jackson: I remember some of the most memorable moments on stage were the ones that were completely unplanned. Those little surprises made each performance feel alive.

[22:29] Ryan Jackson: The joy of performing in CATS is infectious. You can’t help but smile when you’re on stage, and that energy translates to the audience.

[22:49] Ryan Jackson: I’m grateful for the experiences I had during the tour. They shaped me as a performer and as a person.

[23:09] Ryan Jackson: Looking back, I realize how much I learned from my time in CATS. It was a unique opportunity that I will always cherish.

[23:29] Ryan Jackson: The stories we created together as a cast will stay with me forever. They are a testament to the power of collaboration and creativity.

[23:49] Ryan Jackson: I hope to continue sharing my love for theater and makeup with others. It’s a passion that drives me every day.

[24:09] Ryan Jackson: I encourage everyone to find their own joy in the arts. Whether it’s performing, creating, or simply enjoying a show, there’s something magical about it.

[24:29] Ryan Jackson: Thank you for having me on the podcast. It’s been a pleasure to share my experiences and insights about CATS.

[24:57] Ryan Jackson: I look forward to connecting with fans and fellow artists in the future. Let’s keep the conversation going!

[25:17] Ryan Jackson: Remember to follow your passions and embrace the joy that comes with it. That’s what makes life truly special.

[25:37] Ryan Jackson: Until next time, keep celebrating the magic of theater and the stories we share.

[25:57] Ryan Jackson: I’m excited to see where my journey takes me next. The world of theater is full of endless possibilities.

[26:17] Ryan Jackson: Thank you again for this opportunity. It’s been a wonderful experience to reflect on my time in CATS.

[26:37] Ryan Jackson: I hope to inspire others to pursue their dreams and find their own unique voice in the arts.

[26:57] Ryan Jackson: Let’s continue to uplift each other and celebrate the beauty of creativity.

[27:17] Ryan Jackson: I can’t wait to see what the future holds for all of us in the theater community.

[27:37] Ryan Jackson: Keep shining your light and sharing your talents with the world.

[28:07] Ryan Jackson: Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoyed our conversation today.

[28:27] Ryan Jackson: Until next time, take care and keep the spirit of CATS alive in your hearts.

[28:57] Ryan Jackson: Goodbye for now!

[28:58] Ryan Jackson: Joe Delude is our makeup designer. So my job as the makeup supervisor is just to facilitate his vision. So I'm not making anyone a cat in Death Becomes Her. But I will say, for years after the show, like, you, if your friends from Cats are coming to see the show, you do throw in a little cat stance move or a little nod to cats. So this way, your friends are like, Oh, but with the makeup, honestly, the makeup is the coolest part because that was my first introduction to makeup, like, like having to do that and having to do eight times a week. And like, I wasn't good. But like, you know, like, I did it because it was my job. And then I was lucky enough to do multiple shows that had makeup. And then by the time I started doing it professionally, like I'd never taken a class, I was just self-taught, figure it out as I go.

And so whenever I'm on a TV set or a Broadway show, I have no ego because I'm like, we're just making it up as we go. We're playing make pretend, you know, like, the best idea wins. Like, this is how I would do it. You know?

[29:49] Mike Abrams: Do you have a favorite plot from Cats? Like, is there a favorite cat for the makeup design?

[29:56] Ryan Jackson: Okay. Warren, who played our Skimbleshanks, was exquisite with the way he would blend his makeup. And also coming from a stop, please. I was black, white and gray. I was so envious of yellow and orange and brown and white and black and all these colors. So I've always loved that plot. But then you have Cassandra, my friend Andrea, played her and not only was she an exquisite performer, a singer, a dancer, but the way she beat that mug was incredible. It was like, it's a simple plot, but it just felt so regal. You know, so like, looking at those parts always made me go, I want to try that.

[31:38] Mike Abrams: Yes. Before we go to a rapid fire, I want to hear like any memorable stories. Like, what are the things that you're never going to forget from your time on the Cats tour?

[31:48] Ryan Jackson: Oh my god. I mean, going to the White Room was terrifying. I don't think I've ever, ever really had that happen on stage before. Luckily, it was during a tech rehearsal. So that was good. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I just feel like I just think about that tour as just being so full of life and joy and fun. What are some good stories? Oh, one of these, this is one of the things that you should have been like, you should, you know, get some good stories to pull out for this podcast. But oh my goodness. I mean, playing murderer, trying to kill Dee while she's in the procession. Laughing during the orgy, because I mean, like, you're exhausted. You're crawling all over each other. Everyone's dripping with sweat during the ball during the part where you get to like, actually like, it's almost like you go to sleep before it comes back up.

And so that was always fun and crazy. I remember my last show, David Hansen, the hair and makeup supervisor gave me this glitter. And he's like, when you come down on the rope, I want you to throw the glitter out into the audience. You know, like, it'll be your farewell. I'm terrified of heights. And also like my dad's a police officer. So I grew up with all the things that will go wrong. I'm like, What if this blind someone? What if I fall off the rope? And I was like, Oh my god, David, that's amazing. Thank you so much. And as soon as I walked away from him, I put it in the trash can and wipe my little paws off because I was too afraid of like, you know, blinding an audience member or falling to my death.

No, I don't know. One of my also one of my favorite things is like we used to love Macavity, because he's a transition cat. Whenever you're done, someone yells Macavity, everyone runs offstage next, next number comes on. So it's like, someone just yell Macavity. Okay, so that's the whatever that said you get to come off. So it's like, you're just Pavlov to the word Macavity.

[34:01] Mike Abrams: Correct. The mouth waters, you just you just want to get off stage and sit down for a minute. Was there any stop like any city that stands out as like this place was either like the most cat super fans or just unique as a city to end up in on tour?

[34:12] Ryan Jackson: I mean, New Orleans was incredible. I remember we were I once had a summer theater, which I don't know if it exists anymore, because I know it had a really tragic fire a couple years ago. But that was beautiful because it's a historic theater. The culture of New Orleans, the food, the drinking. We just had such an incredible time. And I remember the stage door always being full with people being so excited about what they just saw.

[34:34] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. One thing I do want to talk about before we go to the rapid fire to is the Joe Cabal with having a little Broadway revival in a completely different way. So have you had a chance to go see that production yet?

[34:46] Ryan Jackson: I have and it's incredible. It's the fact that it didn't win the Tony for Best Revival is wild because it took a nonsense show, put a lens on it, let us look at it through a different framework and everything works. It's so smart. It's incredible because they put into the ballroom culture, which the show is a pageant. It makes no sense. But if you're making the premise, a ball where it's introduction, introduction, it's not about who should go to the heavy side it's about show me the best in this category. And it's smart. And it's beautiful. Like, I'm so happy it's as successful as it is. And I hope it runs for a long time and people need to come see it. Because it's so good. Like we were just talking about this, like, after you've done the show, you have such an investment in the characters and the portrayal. But it's wild that Cats, this nonsense show has been a worldwide phenomenon for decades. And now bringing it back to the ballroom lens is wild. Like it is a it is a must see.

[36:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's so cool to, like when you when you see it, if you haven't had a chance to see it, like you got to go it's it's it's so good, whether you love or hate cats to like, that's the beauty of it. It's one of those things where like, you walk out and it's like, I can't believe this hasn't been thought of or done before, you know, like, it makes so much sense. And then it's so cool to see the representation through a vehicle that is, again, so well known, but then so different. So I was out of town for the Tonys, I was out of the country, so I didn't get to watch it live. And I was, you know, no shade to Ragtime, which is a great production and an incredible show. But this is to me what the definition of what a best revival is, which is like they took one of the longest running shows that is currently playing in like, it's in like four or five US cities right now.

And the international tour is about to start in India. And it's all this stuff. And it completely reinvented it and it works. And it's like that to me is like, it's such a bummer didn't get rewarded. I'm glad the creative team did like Queen Jean for costumes and Bill and Jalen for directing and Amara and Arturo for for choreography, like it got some love. But that is that is to me the definition of what a best revival should be embracing. And I'm sure there's some politics behind it that some people are talking about online, but I'm just so glad that it's doing well and people are seeing it and people are embracing it. I wish I wish everyone doesn't have to come. I will say my one my one ask, and this is probably reaching the wrong audience, but you don't have to talk about how much you hated Cats to tell me how much you love the Joko Ball.

Like, we can just leave that at the door here. Everyone's starting to be like, I'm a cat hater, but I love this. I'm like, you know, you could just love it. You don't have to lean in with it. But it is such an amazing cast. It's great. They're great people. They're doing phenomenal work. And I love that. I mean, a really big kudos to Andrew Lloyd Webber for like, not just I don't want to say allowing it, but like for giving creative license to do something that's a little bit risky, you know, without the success for something of his that's been so successful is like that is very progressive and transformative for him to to do that. And I love everything about it. I could I couldn't agree more.

[38:06] Mike Abrams: Okay, let's do some Cats rapid fire. So I want to hear all of these answered as you, Ryan, not Mustafa. So just your answers. So if you could go on one night, any cat doesn't matter, male, female, whether you can dance it, sing it. Who do you want to perform as?

[38:20] Ryan Jackson: Oh, my God. I mean, Grizabella is like the princess track. She comes on. She sings two songs, two and a half songs. And then everyone's like, you're the best. Shoot it through the roof. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, extreme. It's like 15 minutes on stage. They are now making in the more recent productions. They do make Grizabella dance the opening number as another cat. Oh, no, no, no. She she's always been. Okay. Okay. She's like on the tire and not really doing it. Yeah. She's doing armography.

[39:15] Mike Abrams: Favorite and least favorite cat from a personality. So like, which one would you want to hang out with and which one bug you?

[39:20] Ryan Jackson: Oh, my God. I mean, like, Tugger's hot. They're like, we're all drawn to him. I think Bustopher Jones would be just insufferable.

[39:27] Mike Abrams: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no notes, no notes. Favorite song in the show.

[39:36] Ryan Jackson: Oh, my God. Remark, remark, the cat. It's like this tiny little snippet. It's where she comes on and it's like, sexy, it's sultry. And then everyone's like, get out of here, you. I don't know. I love it. I think it's I think it's one of the ones that's my favorite or or hold up or Moonlight Daylight, like just for the syllabus, but also syllabus or cast Andrew Lloyd Webber, either it's it Disney princess, perfect voice, or raspy little girl voice to to show innocence. And when you have that pure Disney voice that like, princess ping, like, I just think, though, those two songs are also gorgeous. But they're like snippets. They're not full songs.

[40:58] Mike Abrams: I always ask the fun one. So you obviously you did Wicked for a while and you did, you know, you're working on Death Becomes Her. If we could stick a cat in one of those shows, which character are you putting in and how are they interacting in those shows?

[41:06] Ryan Jackson: Um, I don't know, throw monger Jerry Rumple teaser into any show. I feel like, come on, we want mischief. We want we want chaos. I feel like that's going to make every show better. And then let's go ahead. If we're going to insert those two chaos demons into, you know, Wicked or Death Becomes Her, Beetlejuice or anything like that. And we can go ahead and like trim out one of the like, parent songs, you know, like, like trim a verse from the wizard, you know? Yeah. Okay. I love it. All right. Million dollar question is I've argued at length. I don't think there's bells, right? Joke choice. I want to hear who is your joke choice and why?

[41:47] Ryan Jackson: Okay, absolutely. Like, let's decide not to be mean to her. Cool, check. But I mean, you would have to be an absolute monster not to pick Gus. Come on. Like, agreed. Like, he's so sweet. Like the portrayal by like, every actor that's ever played Gus is just so endearing. And then depending on which version of the show you're getting, if you're getting peaks and pollicles versus the aria, you know, then you get to see the bravado him showing what he used to be, or maybe, you know, the big fish version of it, you know? But yeah, Gus, hands down, like, let's be nice to Grizabella. And let's send Gus up there because let's be honest, he'll be dead before the next choosing. That's, I think that's the key part is that Grizabella, you have the whole redemption arc of like, bring her back to her family. And then let her stay, like, give her a year, she can go next year, get a have a birthday, you know, like, have a have a little time with your family and send Gus right now.

[43:01] Ryan Jackson: Yeah, like, okay, how about we let you have a redemption arc, instead of just being like, yeah, we were mean. Get in the tire. Bye.

[43:01] Ryan Jackson: Yeah.

[43:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that's right. Well, this has been so fun. So thank you for coming on.

[43:05] Mike Abrams: Well, this has been super fun. How can people stay in touch with you on things that you know, whatever's next for you?

[43:05] Ryan Jackson: Thank you for having me.

[43:07] Mike Abrams: And thanks, everyone, for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Cassiopaea. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or podcast, follow us on social media at TheWrongCatDied, or check our website at thewrongcatdied.com.

[43:12] Ryan Jackson: Oh, I mean, you can follow me on Instagram at This Guy's Makeup. That's my body paint and makeup account. I feel like with Death Becomes Her closing this summer, I'm excited to one, take some time off to do a bunch of creative collaborations. But you know, you jump back onto TV film sets, you know, day playing, I'll swing some Broadway shows and we'll see what happens next.

[43:28] Mike Abrams: Yeah, excited to see what you do next. We'll link all the different social medias for you so people can stay in touch. And I think this will probably come out after Death Becomes Her closes. But if it's still running, go see it before it closes. It's so fun. It's such a great show. I'm bummed it's closing. So hopefully, you know, you'll have some really fun last couple weekends of weeks of shows.

[43:49] Ryan Jackson: Thank you. And also the national tour is going out this fall. So if you don't get to make the end of the Broadway run, I mean, I'll probably come to a theater near you.

[43:56] Mike Abrams: Coming to a city near you.