This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:17] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat satirphy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was a swing covering Demeter, Sylva, Rumpelteazer, Jody Lorm, and Grizabella during the 1987 3rd US National Tour. So welcome, Karen Longwell, and thank you for joining me.

[0:31] Karen Longwell: Hi, Mike. Thanks. I'm glad I get a chance to do this.

[0:37] Mike Abrams: I am excited because you, as a swing, you get to, I've been fascinated by the concept of a swing to begin with, because I just think it sounds like the hardest thing in the world to do. And then doing it on tour, and then doing it on a show that, you know, at the time was this kind of like phenomenon. And so I'd love to hear a little bit about before, before you got the show, when you finally booked the show, and you're going to go on tour, what did you know about Cats at that time?

[1:06] Karen Longwell: Well, I had been auditioning for the show. I had auditioned, this, this Cats 3 had been auditioning for months and months and months. And I went to the auditions and I got a couple callbacks. And so I, you know, I went into, I looked at T.S. Eliot's Book of Practical Cats and Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats. And I said, how, you know, and that, but I also saw the show like a year and a half before that, my husband and I went to see the show. It was amazing. Of course, on Broadway. So I was, I was thinking, well, I could do this. I'm primarily a singer. So I thought, well, it's mostly a dance show, but I can dance pretty well. I should give this a shot because, you know, when you're young, you audition for everything anyway, you know.

So, yeah, I went down to the end for the Cats 3 auditions, but I didn't get it. And I said, oh, well, okay, move on. But apparently I went into a file and they kept me on file. And then the first person that gave their notice on that tour, they called me in because it was the utility swing, the woman that was covering five different parts. And so I, her name was Donna Lee Marshall, wonderful woman. She went on to do Grizabella in Cats 4. So she was moving up the ladder, but yeah, so I get a call out of the blue. We want to see you. And so I came in and I sang for, I sang a very campy operatic thing. I think I did like a camp version of an operatic aria because of that. I was thinking of the character Jelly Lorem, you know?

And then they came, they got me back the next day to dance and oh my God, that was one of the hardest dance things I'd ever done. But I said, I'm sticking this out. I am going to do this. I was lame for a week, but I did it. And they gave me the job and I have to give Richard Stafford a lot of credit because, you know, he said to me, Karen, we're hiring you, but you're going to have to work on your dance. And I said, okay, okay. I got my marching orders. So as soon as I got out there, I was just, I was going to every gym, every rehearsal hall and working as much as I could on my dance just to get up to the level of all these thoroughbred dancers that I was working with.

[3:10] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And you, you had some heavy dance numbers with some of the, you know, with the covers, like Rumpelteazer is a heavy, heavy, heavy dance number. I think so is Demeter. So you know, there's, you got thrown into it.

[3:16] Karen Longwell: I did. I did. Rumpelteazer was probably the hardest. It was the most cardiac heart that I did. She, she was just constantly in movement when she was on stage. So, so that was tough. Grizabella was, was, was a breeze. Yeah. You know, she waltzes on stage and sings the big hot number and leaves, you know, but the other ones that, yeah, they were hard. Demeter, she was sensual. She had to like snake around the stage. She gets thrown around by Macavity and yeah, it was dangerous. And we had to really rehearse it a lot. There was, there was always the understudy and swing rehearsal once a week. And we had, we had one chance per week to work on the staging with all the other cats. So we worked hard. We really did. We earned our paycheck.

[5:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. And so you get to now go around the country in this show. That's kind of this, you know, that the, everyone keeps saying it was the Hamilton of its time. And you're going on all these different characters. What were the reactions? Did you, did you feel like you got different reactions when you went on as different characters or like, how do you feel the show when you're in a different role, multiple nights when you're all over the country?

[5:27] Karen Longwell: Yeah. Well, you get in a zone if you have to go on. You, you get into your performance zone. You forget about the fact that you're in Phoenix or you're in Indianapolis. You're, you're just focused on the show. And, and of course I had to focus doubly hard because I had to figure out, okay, I'm doing, I'm doing Demeter today. Okay. Let's, let's find her physicality. Let's find, you know, where, where her head is at. So that I didn't confuse it with all the other cats I had to do.

[6:05] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So that's, that's probably my favorite question to ask everybody is I've spent more time than I'd like to admit in my life, trying to understand the backstory of all these cats. And I know that you were, are given some kind of story. So what, how much do you try to bring in? And I guess, what were you also told about the different cats that you were going to be playing?

[6:23] Karen Longwell: Yeah. Well, because I was a replacement, I missed the initial cats school, you know, where they crawl around on the floor and act like cats and all of that. So I basically had to do it myself. I mean, I was given some information backstory on these characters, but most of it, I had to come up with myself. So let's go through it. I want to know what you came up with and what you were told. Cause I think that's the most, cause it doesn't sound like there's not, there are some things that are kind of common beliefs of like, I know this is this, I know this is that. And then there's a lot where I've now talked to multiple old Deuteronomies, multiple people have played different parts. And, and it's a little bit of different backstories each time, which I kind of love, but I also have someone trying to, to solve this, this mystery. It also is driving me nuts. So what is, let's do Rumpelteazer. Cause I think that's not one I've covered as much.

[7:20] Karen Longwell: Rumpelteazer. Well, she's a street cat. You know, there's some cats that have collars, you know, you can see it in the show, they wear collars. So, you know, that they have owners that take care of them. They have a meal every night. Well, Rumpelteazer was not one of those. She grew up on the streets and she probably grew up with Mungo Jerry. The two of them were probably kittens together. They're still very young. But they were, they were like the characters in Oliver, you know, they learned how to pickpocket they, and they got off on it and they got a high from it. You know, it was just fun. It was so much fun to break into people's houses and just smash things and then, and then run out and go, you know, who knows what her future was going to be in that, in that profession. But she was certainly enjoying it at that moment, at the moment of the show. She, she loved, you know, I call them the, yeah, I call them the klepto cats.

[8:17] Mike Abrams: So I guess, do you think that a Rumpelteazer is even auditioning for the Heaviside Layer?

[8:24] Karen Longwell: I, I never felt that way. I didn't feel that she was ready to go on to another life. She, she was too busy having fun in this life, you know? Yeah. So they're just performing because they got the stage and they're there. The two of them are just having a good time.

[8:39] Mike Abrams: What about Cillabub?

[8:48] Karen Longwell: Cillabub is a very young kitten and she's well cared for. Very healthy. She hangs out with a Victoria. The two of them are best buds and they, but they, they tend to get corralled by Jelly Lorem and Jenny Antidotes. They, those two cats kind of mother them a little bit. And, and so they look to those if they're ever frightened, they go straight for Jelly Lorem or Jenny Antidotes in order to protect themselves. Protect themselves because there's a lot going on. It's very possible. I feel that Cillabub, this was probably her first Jellicle ball. I think she was invited to come to this ball and, and this young, sweet young thing. And so she's very wide eyed through the whole thing.

[9:31] Mike Abrams: Do you think there's a relation with Grizabella?

[9:36] Karen Longwell: I don't think she knew who Grizabella was. And I think that's part of her charm is that her innocence, she doesn't, she doesn't understand any of Grizabella's life and never saw her before. So she can, so Deuteronomy puts his magical specialness into Cillabub so that she could sing that song at the beginning of the second act, which is the same song that Grizabella sings. So she's innocent enough that she can absorb this energy and, and, and just accept Grizabella for who she is. Just, just look at her quizzically like, this is interesting. Yeah. First of all, just happy to be there and not up for running as well.

[10:22] Mike Abrams: What about the one that I think there's a lot of theories on, but Demeter and the relationship, especially with Macavity.

[10:26] Karen Longwell: Oh, well, Demeter, you know, she's, I think of her as a woman who picks the wrong man all the time. You know, she may have aspirations for the Heaviside Layer, but I don't know if she's totally ready. She's ready to do that. She, she had a bad relationship with this horrible, abusive man called Macavity, what we call a cat. Okay. This, this cat Macavity and escaped. She literally escaped his clutches. He was, he was like holding her. I think of the movie Room, you know, where this woman was stuck in this, in this shed. She got out and she's scared to death. She's going to go back in. And I think, I think her, her focus is not on going to the Heaviside Layer. It's just staying alive. And Bombalurina is also trying very hard to like, calm down, girl. You know, she probably, Bombalurina probably had an affair with Macavity at some point. And she's just saying, sit, loosen up, girl. This, you know, you're fine now, you know.

[11:45] Mike Abrams: And then what about Grizabella?

[11:45] Karen Longwell: Grizabella, she, she's the one with the most depth, you know. This, the poet, the poetry that she sings was not in the original Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats. The, behold the cat who hesitates toward you. That was a poem that he wrote in something called the Rhapsody of a Windy Night. And it was very serious about a downtrodden woman who's had a horrible life, probably prostitute, would hang out at Tottenham Court Road, which is the red light district. So she's, she's seen the end. She's ready. She is so ready to be done with this horrible life. Of course, of course, she had her glamorous moments, her, her Hollywood moments, her, I am the coolest, most sensual, fabulous cat in town. And now she's not, you know.

[12:51] Mike Abrams: Why do you think she left the tribe?

[12:53] Karen Longwell: She was, she was grand. She was very grand and thought that she was above the tribe. You know, there's a life lesson there. You know, no one is higher than anybody else. She, she went off to try to seek her fortune and she couldn't find it within this tribe, this small little group of cats that, you know, sure, they're, they're allowing me into their little special club, but I'm better than this. I'm going to go be a star, you know.

[13:24] Karen Longwell: And then she wasn't a star. I mean, it's a pretty typical story, actually, like you can use parallels to Hollywood or theater. People are on top and then they're not. The redemption story, for sure, is always, it's a common theme. I do think, and I'd love to hear, having been in the show, saw the show, you know, early on when it came, you know, you said you saw it before you kind of got the role. How would you tell somebody who's never seen the show and is about to go see, you know, the next tour or whenever it's back on Broadway, what they're going to go see? How would you say, here's my description of Cats to you?

[14:07] Mike Abrams: Oh, gosh. Okay. Don't go expecting a plot. That's the first thing. And then I would try to explain what plot there is. And then I'd say, just go and enjoy. Enjoy little vignettes of really fun, beautiful, beautiful dancing, beautiful singing. And just have fun. Don't expect anything. Don't go there expecting, you know, a Pulitzer Prize winning, you know, one flew over the cuckoo's nest or anything like that. So what is that plot? Give me the, I want to hear your plot of how you would say this is from start to finish what you're going to see.

[14:50] Karen Longwell: All right. Well, there's this magical group of cats. They all seem to have been born with a certain kind of DNA that makes them a little bit more, they have extra powers. They have magical powers. And they all sort of gravitate towards each other. They find each other. And they have called themselves the Jellicle Cats. And they have a ball every year, where they decide who is the one cat who is going to go to cat heaven, i.e. the Heaviside Layer. And it could be anybody. And everybody who wants to go on does their campaign to Old Deuteronomy to ask him if they could be the chosen one this year. But it's mostly about getting together and having a huge party, basically.

[15:42] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. So the, I kind of love that. I did, I did want to see a little bit of, did you see the 1998 movie or the 2000, was it 2019 movie?

[15:59] Karen Longwell: I saw both actually.

[16:01] Mike Abrams: Saw both. What did you think about the, I'm more interested in the 2019 movie.

[16:07] Karen Longwell: Well, I really missed the comedy. You know, what happened to all the funny, you know, the funny lines and, you know, Rumpelteazer and Mungojerry. They, they just, there wasn't anything cute and funny happening there. You know, I, I missed that.

[16:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It was very serious. I loved what they did with Mr. Mistoffelees, how his, he was, he was so insecure. He didn't, he didn't really understand his powers because he was just scared.

[16:38] Karen Longwell: That's fascinating. Cause that was probably one of my least favorite things is I really loved and I, cause I, I really liked, you know, my frame of reference for this is, is the 2016 revival I saw twice in the 1998 movie, which is what's on YouTube. And so the Mr. Mistoffelees on the 19, in the 1998 movie and on YouTube is like this very fun and fabulous and energetic character and, and magical. And like, it's just like, there's, it's all encompassing. And then you get to this movie and it's like this timid and kind of strange and a little bit insecure. And I was waiting for this, like over the top, magical dance, singing, which fun number. And I got the opposite, which I wasn't expecting. It was kind of one of those things that I, I wish they would have done that.

And I wish they would have, I didn't know much about, I learned that the, the Mungojerry and Rumpelteazer number was a different version. And it was like the original British version. I loved the version that I saw, or the one that I saw in the movie. And so I missed, I wish I would have had that cadence of that dance number.

[17:50] Karen Longwell: Well, you know, they're, they're children's poems. They're all based on children's poems. And I think it was an, the movie attempted to give some more depth to the characters. They're not so two-dimensional, but you know, there's nothing like having this guy come out with a, with a, a jacket that lights up and does like 14 fouette turns and, and blows the place, you know, up with, with lights. That's, that's so exciting. But the other side of it is, okay, who is this, this character? Can we see a growth of a character, you know, character development? 101.

[18:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah. That's, it is really interesting to say that. Cause you know, you mentioned that they're, they're a magical group and they have this, and it's like, it is a different take of Mistoffelees in a very different way of like, I don't know what to do with my powers. I have them. I'm going to have to potentially save Old Deuteronomy. I did think the movie forced some story arc into there, which is probably for the best to have a more, you know, you, you said that there's no plot, but in a movie you kind of need one, or you kind of expect one a little bit more in a big Hollywood blockbuster. And so I think that was where a lot of their potential errors came from.

[19:02] Karen Longwell: Well, there was a lot, there was a lot of criticism on that movie.

[19:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Well, I still found it entertaining. I mean, I really don't understand the vitriol behind this, this movie. Why, why does it, why is everybody vilifying this movie now? I mean, okay, it wasn't the best, but it was still fun and I'm sure kids will still enjoy it.

[19:25] Karen Longwell: You know, I think they, I can tell you where I think they made a few errors, not in the movie, just in the leading up to the movie, they launched the first trailer on the same day as Top Gun. And the trailer was very, very, very over the top. It was, it was hard to follow. It was like different cat sizes here, different cat sizes there. And if you're not familiar with the musical and you're going to go see a hundred million dollar movie with a lot of household names, a lot of huge actors that's supposed to be there. It's kind of a strange thing to kind of go see. It's like, it's cats by humans. They're a little bit human, a little bit cat. And it's not the magic of theater where it's like, oh, that's really cool.

They're just, they're in costume and makeup, but you're still really seeing like live theater. It's, it was CGI and it was CGI in some cases in ways it looks like. And then that was, I think the second biggest errors is that it sounds like they didn't finish it until the day of and they ran out of time to really CGI it the way they wanted to do it. And so there was some, there were definitely some parts that were a little, a little interesting in that, but there was a lot of other things I had with the movie. I, I, we definitely, we did a big debrief when we went and saw it, but I think that's the biggest thing is that you had a lot of, it got a lot of press and a lot of buzz and then it didn't fully deliver on what you kind of would have expected.

[20:53] Karen Longwell: Yeah. I think that was it. There was a letdown, but you know, it's not, it's not everybody's cup of tea. I, my son says he thinks the whole idea is creepy. People dressing up as cats, you know, it definitely has a huge, huge fan base and incredibly passionate, like super fan base. And then it has a bunch of haters. And I think the reason it has some haters is it's easy to poke fun at, which as you know, I've got multiple episodes kind of poking fun at the plot and the characters, but it's an easy punchline. I've yet to find anybody, and this is my call to anybody, any listeners, which I'm assuming they're not listening if you hate cats, but I've yet to have anybody tell me a very good reason why they didn't like it.

It's always like, I just didn't enjoy it. It's not my cup of tea. I think it's a little creepy, but there's never, I've never heard like a really detailed, like it was bad because of X, Y, and Z. And I think it's because it's really not bad. It's really good. And it's just like, it just is different. And so if that different is not your cup of tea, then it's not for you.

[22:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah. If you're going there expecting to see, you know, an exposition, a development and a final denouement or whatever, you're not going to get that.

[22:08] Karen Longwell: Yeah. Yeah. Now, something that was well done and I want to hear from you about was the fundraiser that you participated in, that you were a part of, for the probably cares COVID relief. And so I know that you did, you actually did a little bit of puppeteering in the video. Tell me, tell me about, tell me about that.

[22:31] Karen Longwell: I am not a puppeteer. Okay. That, that disclaimer is out there. All right. Um, I, there was just this section in the, the Jellicle songs for Jellicle cats that we were doing that there wasn't a lot going on. You know, Jonathan said, okay, I just want you to rock out here, rock out. And I'm thinking, okay. Um, but it's boring. So Jonathan's a wonderful director. No, don't, don't get me wrong here. I think he just wanted a kind of spontaneity. So I went with the spontaneity. And so on Etsy, I ordered two cat puppets and I said, okay, how am I going to make this work? There was, there was just this one great section where I could duck down below the table and put my hands up and start singing as if I was the cats, you know, Jellicle songs for Jellicle cats, Jellicle songs.

Um, and it worked, it worked pretty well. Even my husband said to me, Hey, Karen, that was good. So, so I kept it in. They kept it in there. I thought they might cut it. Oh, they might cut this. That's fine with me. I had fun, but they kept it. So,

[24:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I think, you know, and Jonathan said that, you know, it was a, a great nod to the, the fact that they were children's poems and that there was a way to kind of integrate that in. So he was a big fan and thought it was a really cool idea.

[24:11] Karen Longwell: Oh, good, good. I'm glad. Well, uh, we were trying to push it as sort of a Halloween kid kind of, of evening, you know, so tell me more about the fundraiser. What was it like reuniting? I think it was 30 years later from being on tour and doing that.

[24:24] Karen Longwell: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Like 35 years. Uh, we've all lived our lives. We've, some of us have stayed in touch, but you know, it was such a gas to see all those people again that, you know, when you, when you tour, you become a family, you really are a family, you take care of each other. And then suddenly the gig is up and you go your separate ways. So there's this kind of, you know, they talk about it like, um, closing night, let down, whatever. Sometimes it lasts for a month, you know, it's like, well, where's my cats crew. But so here we are back together again, we're gray haired, we're, we're a few wrinkles, but you know, we're still the same people and we still love each other. You know, there was still the love that was so palpable even through zoom, you know, when we, when we'd have meetings and we'd bounce ideas back and forth and, and, and catch up with each other.

A lot of people are in LA. There are some that are teaching some that are still performing. Some are, some are singers, some are songwriters. It's a, it's a, it's every part of the performing arts. They have, everybody has gone off in a diaspora, a cat diaspora and going on with their lives is beautiful.

[25:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And what was, you know, I, I'm sure you were involved in the fundraiser back in, you know, when you were on tour and what was that like as a, you know, for you as a swing doing five, six, multiple characters, uh, and then also learning other songs and other dances to other shows in, in between doing shows.

[25:55] Karen Longwell: Yeah. It was hard, but you know, remember you're doing eight shows a week of the same show and you're out on tour. It's not like you're in New York and you've got your coach that can, you know, give you new songs to work on or whatever. So it was like, yes, something different, you know, so we ate it up. We really ate it up and we were young. So, you know, rehearsing to one in the morning was no big deal. Yeah. I couldn't do that now, but yeah. Now I want to do a few rapid fire questions about the show. I've got a new one that I'm excited to see, uh, to see your answer on. So the first one is, um, I know you've played many different cats, but if you could play any single one, forget the male, female.

[26:48] Karen Longwell: Why they cut it. I know the cats, none of them liked to do the Siamese cats. Everybody hated doing the Siamese because, talk about masks, everybody's wearing masks. It smashed your nose and you couldn't breathe, you know, and all that was open was your eyes and your mouth. So, and you could hardly see and maybe that was why they cut it. Who knows? What was your favorite and least favorite character, cat's character?

[27:48] Mike Abrams: My favorite character?

[27:50] Karen Longwell: Yeah, which cat?

[27:52] Karen Longwell: I mean, Grizabella, she had the most depth, the most to work with as an actor, you know. My least favorite? The Siamese.

[28:01] Mike Abrams: The Siamese?

[28:03] Karen Longwell: Oh, gosh. Well, there's a lot of the male characters I don't even know anything about, like Tumble Brutus, Pounceable, Alonso. I had very little interaction with them.

[28:14] Mike Abrams: So, you're just going to count one of those out? Least favorite?

[28:17] Karen Longwell: Yeah.

[28:18] Mike Abrams: Okay, that's fair. What about your favorite song in the show?

[28:21] Karen Longwell: I love singing Demeter. That was fun to just to be sensual and just slink around and yeah. I've gone through waves as I've watched and, you know, recorded for the show and kind of listened for this podcast. When I saw the show the first time, it was Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer. I couldn't get that song stuck in my head. It was stuck in my head for like weeks. But the more I've like prepped, it's Macavity. It's like as I've listened to the album more every single time, it's Macavity. And so, I'm with you that I think that's one of the most catchy songs of the entire thing.

[29:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah. It's catchy. Well, is that a Mistoffelees?

[29:06] Karen Longwell: Oh, well, I never was there. I teach a lot and my kids love that song.

[29:12] Mike Abrams: Okay, this is my new question. And I think it's a little different. So, um, which cat do you think would be thriving in the 80s? The era of the 80s? And which cat do you think would be thriving in the era, like the 2020s? The 2020s? Like this, this era versus in the 80s? Which character would be in their element in either period of time?

[29:35] Karen Longwell: It has to be the same character? The same?

[29:38] Mike Abrams: No, which one? I think like what probably is going to be one that's going to thrive in the 80s and one that's going to thrive now.

[29:43] Karen Longwell: I betcha. Well, I think. Hmm, I have to think about that. Yeah.

[29:49] Karen Longwell: Bombalurina comes to mind. I think she was in her peak.

[29:53] Mike Abrams: In the 80s? She'd be an 80s star.

[29:56] Karen Longwell: Okay, big hair, big shoulders, you know, big padded shoulders and leather jackets. I could see her, you know, styling it really well there. As far as right now, it would have to be somebody who's really into technology. Mistoffelees, because of his ability to like make lights flash.

[30:11] Mike Abrams: Yeah. He'd be one of these guys with like 14 computers, you know?

[30:15] Karen Longwell: That I, yes. I thought a little bit about this when I, when I wrote the question and I had Tugger for the 80s. So I think, you know, just the rock era would like thrive.

[30:23] Mike Abrams: True, yeah.

[30:24] Mike Abrams: At that age. And I did think a lot about Mistoffelees for now. And then I got on a little bit of, I think, a Buster for Jones, just like, just consuming, you know, like just eating a lot, kind of hanging out, not doing a whole lot. Feels like the current 2021 for a lot of, you know, a lot of people.

[30:39] Karen Longwell: He'd be big as a house this time.

[30:41] Mike Abrams: He's just spending his money. So I thought he'd be very, he'd be a very current character.

[30:46] Karen Longwell: Okay. My million dollar question, I think based on some of the stuff you've said today, I think that I know the way you're going to go, but I have argued a lot about why I don't think Grizabella should have been the right choice for the Heaviside Layer. So I want to know if you think she was the correct choice and I want to hear your defense of her. And if not, I want to know who else you think should be considered.

[31:10] Karen Longwell: Well, yeah. Okay. I think it was Grizabella. I think she, she deserved to go on. Well, her need, first of all, there was, there was so little in this life for her. And it's, it's like she had learned everything she needed to learn. Um, but if there was a runner up, of course it would be Gus. Gus is living in the past completely anyway. So, uh, he's not living in the present. He has no future. He doesn't think about the future. So that seemed to be, that would be my runner up. I'm sorry. I'm being very middle of the road, but no, it's fine. I think there's a million different ways to argue this, which is the fun of it. How do you think Old Deuteronomy makes the decision?

[32:02] Karen Longwell: Well, he knows all these cats really, really well. And you could also, you could argue that he reads their minds. He can get into their minds. He certainly got into Sillabub's mind and he knows what kind of torture might be going on with these people. I mean, actually third place might be Macavity because here's an incredibly angry cat that, you know, only wants to destroy, destroy, destroy. Um, so he's, he's probably picking between those three, but the, but the one that truly cannot go on is Grizabella. She, she falls to the, to the ground at the end there when she's singing that song, like I can't go on anymore. And that may have been the thing that kicked him over to say, okay, it's her.

[32:56] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I have heard there's, again, this is what I love about the shows. There's so many ways to interpret it. And there's so many ways to kind of say, here's why the decision was made. Here's why that decision shouldn't have been made. And it seems like the consensus is it's between Grizabella and Gus because the two most like they're on the older side for, you know, the, in the cat world and they have the, the, you know, the, the depth of being able to do that. I do think there's a lot of really interesting arguments to make against a lot of other characters though. And it depends on how you frame. It seems like it all to me depends on how you frame Old Deuteronomy's decision. Meaning that if you're going to do it purely on who's deserving, it's probably Gus.

If there's a need, it's probably Grizabella. If it's on performance, which, cause that's kind of the way they tee it up is we're going to watch all these performances to see who deserves to go. Then it's, then it opens up a whole different game of like, well, let's, let's look at some of the kittens or some of the young ones. Cause there's some really good performances that are in there as well.

[34:05] Karen Longwell: Okay. If you're going to base it purely on performance, I would say Mistoffelees. Mistoffelees is performance. Okay. I like it.

[34:11] Mike Abrams: That's how I, that was how I interpret it. Mistoffelees and Tugger together. Sort of like winning America's Got Talent. I think then it becomes the talent show.

[34:21] Karen Longwell: You know, that's exactly how I watched it. And that's exactly where this whole thing comes from is because I saw X Factor. I felt like I saw the X Factor and that meant that you can combine cats together to make a cat band and send them together to win. And that's what I did. But that's the, that's again, the fun of this is that I know I'm probably wrong, but I have, you know, 50 episodes or so of arguing why I'm right. And so I'm going to stick with it until I hear the most compelling, this is why it's Grizabella. And it's probably going to take an Andrew Lloyd Webber or an Andy Blankenbuehler or somebody, you know, to like really talk me into it. Someone who I can say, well, I can't really argue against that.

[35:05] Mike Abrams: But, um, so my other question to you is, is, is what are you, I know you said you're teaching, what else are you doing these days?

[35:10] Karen Longwell: Well, I'm, um, I am a teacher of voice and piano. I teach in two different schools up here in Westchester. And I also have my private students. I'm also a music director at a church. Um, it's a very hip church. I love them. The, the Yorktown United Methodist Church, they, uh, we do a lot of, uh, contemporary Christian music and, uh, we have a praise band and, uh, and a choir and it, it's a lot of fun. I enjoy, I enjoy that a lot, but, um, the teaching is, is really, uh, fulfilling and challenging to, to get children. It's, it's mostly music. So it, you know, that's, that's where my thrust is to get them to appreciate music and to not be afraid to sing, sing out and, and enjoy it. So there's, there's a lot of this, um, America's Got Talent.

People are afraid to open their mouths to sing because they're, they're competing with people they hear on all these, uh, talent shows. So I find that's, that's a hurdle that I have to get over. Come on, we're just going to sing. We're going to sing for fun. Okay.

[36:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And, um, can, do you, are you taking students? How can people get in touch with you?

[36:14] Karen Longwell: Yes. I have a, my website, karenlongwell.com, just like it sounds. Um, I have a Facebook page and an Instagram account. So you can reach me in any of those places. If you'd like to have some lessons and I do virtual, so I can teach people in Thailand. I can teach people in London, whatever.

[36:30] Mike Abrams: Do you do, um, how many requests have you gotten for cats songs? Do you do a voice on singing certain ones? And I know that you can play memory on the piano. Cause I've heard it.

[36:38] Karen Longwell: Oh, that's right. Um, well, not a lot of people know that I did cats. It's interesting. I mean, my students, anyway, I, it's not like it's, I wear it on my sleeve or anything, but, um, yeah, a lot of, um, actually today I just realized this, my student, just before I came here said, I would really like to sing memory. So there you go.

[36:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I love it. That is, I did notice my, um, the, the piano tuner tunes, uh, for my mom and for her pianos. Uh, when he, when he does the tuning, his final finishing is he plays memory. And it was something that never noticed. And then when I saw the show, I was like, I've heard the song before. And it wasn't until during the pandemic, when I'm home, I heard that the panels got tuned and I heard it. And I'm like, someone's playing memory downstairs. And I like it clicked. I'm like, Oh, that's why I know this song. So well, like before I saw the show, I'm like, that's why I know is because I've heard this, this tuner tune, multiple pianos for that. So, um, so I do know you can play memory on piano. If you, you know, if you have any of your piano students are looking for, for a new song to tackle.

[38:02] Karen Longwell: Okay. You've given me ideas now I might just use it.

[38:06] Mike Abrams: There you go. Well, thank you so much for, for coming on and humoring me through all this and sharing all these amazing stories about your time. And the puppeteering I think was, I think I remember seeing it and I thought it was one of the coolest things. I thought it was great. And then when I heard, you know, how, how fun it was to have that integrated into the piece was, was phenomenal.

[39:00] Karen Longwell: Well, thank you. I've enjoyed this. I could go on for hours.

[39:04] Mike Abrams: That's that is, I have, I've gone on for hours and that's, that is a something I never expected. If you would have asked me multiple years ago, if I would be talking this much about Cats the musical, I would have probably laughed in your face, but, but it's been fun.

[39:20] Karen Longwell: Yeah, it has.

[39:22] Mike Abrams: And thank you everyone for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Catsatrophy. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at TheWrongCatDied or check out our website, TheWrongCatDied.com.