This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:17] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. He's been in three different productions of Cats starring as Old Deuteronomy, Gus, and even Growltiger. So welcome, Nathan Patrick Morgan, and thank you for joining me.

[0:30] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Thank you for having me, Mike. I am excited because I love you've had a range of characters you've covered and you've been in a couple different productions. So you've got, you know, years of Cats knowledge here to kind of dig through. So, but let's start before your first production. What was your introduction to Cats? Did you see the movie? Did you see a stage performance? Like when did you first learn about it?

[0:50] Nathan Patrick Morgan: My first foray into Cats was in high school. I was listening to the radio. Now I'm showing my age, like at home listening to the radio. And they had a special performance coming up from the National Tour of Cats. And they were like, if you're the 24th caller, you're going to win tickets. And I did. I won limited sight tickets to see Cats in Columbus, Ohio. I basically remember nothing except what is happening.

[1:28] Mike Abrams: What a fun way to start. Like, you know, usually when like concert tickets or something, you won Cats tickets in the lottery of the radio contest. That's fascinating.

[1:38] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah. I guess. I don't know. Maybe. I mean, it was a great way to get more people to realize that Cats was even in Columbus. So, but yeah, I got those tickets. I saw it. I remember, I remember the naming of cats. I remember a bunch of cats in a clump reciting some weird pagan sounding thing. And I remember looking at everyone in the unitards and thinking, well, I will never do that show. Because I can't, I'm not, nobody's going to put me on stage in a unitard, like literally colored with what looked like markers to me. Cause I didn't know anything about it yet. But it did make me want to, it did make me want to dance. And I started begging my parents for tap lessons after that. So it definitely did its job and helped me get the performance bug.

[2:31] Mike Abrams: So you, okay. So at that point you kind of knew you wanted to go into musical theater, but you were like, there's not, there's not a cat for me. There's not a cat in your future.

[2:40] Nathan Patrick Morgan: No. Well, I was also leaning towards, well, it was, I was leaning towards either becoming a chemical engineer or being a trumpet player or being an opera singer. So yeah, there was absolutely no chance that I was ever going to do Cats in my head.

[2:53] Mike Abrams: And, and you, okay. That's a lot to unpack. And then you end up on Broadway.

[3:00] Nathan Patrick Morgan: So I ended up on Broadway.

[3:02] Mike Abrams: That must've won out.

[3:03] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah. Well, actually.

[3:04] Mike Abrams: Unless you're doing some engineering in your, in your basement somewhere.

[3:08] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I wish, I wish for the paycheck. The paycheck would be nice. No, I did. So my dream actually became then, cause that was also my introduction into Andrew Lloyd Webber. My dream was to be a Phantom of the Opera. That was like it or Les Mis. And, um, then I had, I got lucky and a guy from the national tour of Phantom, who was also had been in Broadway Phantom came and did like a mock audition masterclass with my theater group. And I went out and I sang from Phantom of the Opera. And then I did two monologues and he said, that is the best acting I think I've ever seen. You're an incredible actor, but you need to stop singing because you're terrible. And I was so shocked. I mean, I, it had been my identity for seemingly so long in my life at that time. I was shocked. And I absolutely chose that. I was definitely going to school for classical voice performance. So I did. I moved to New York when I was 18 to go to MSM and never left.

[4:06] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Manhattan School of Music. Sorry.

[4:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And, and so I hope most people who probably listen to this probably would have known that right away. And I'm like, cool. Yeah. You went to New York.

[4:15] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah. And then you did. So, I mean, there's some nice, there's some nice finishing to that story because you did end up doing Phantom on Broadway.

[4:23] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I did after I did the first, well, the fourth national tour of Cats, the original version with all the Gillian Lynn choreo.

[4:28] Mike Abrams: So that was your first production.

[4:33] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yes, which is awesome. I was doing a dinner theater show with people that had done Cats and they were like, you have to go in for the vocal swing or Gus. And I was like, yeah, right. And they literally, the day of the audition, got in their car and drove to my apartment to make sure I went to the audition because there was no way. Yes. And I went and then I didn't hear anything. And then a week into their rehearsals, I got a phone call and they were like, we need you and one other person to come in and sing the high notes again. And I ran in and sang and booked in was then I, then the next rehearsal I was called to, I was sitting there in a room with all the cats that had been rehearsing for a week and the people coming back from next year were not there yet.

Cause they get a week off, I guess. That's how they used to do it. And, um, so I was the only tenor in the room. I had not seen this music or anything. And somebody, I didn't even have a score. Somebody hands me their score and they're like, okay, so your site's singing all of the tenor book, the entire show. Oh. And also you'll be playing Gus for this read through. So it was a read through of the show, like almost like as it's probed with, with no instrumentation. And yeah, that was absolutely the most terrifying thing I've ever had to go through short of walking onto a Broadway stage for the first time. That's day one. So you're literally day one and you're thrown right into the fire.

[5:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Start sightseeing in this whole show and you better be good at it.

[5:55] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah. Okay. So you're on tour, you're covering Gus, which also includes Growltiger, which I know it used to nothing about because it's not in anything I really ever watched.

[6:08] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Okay. So the original was a Billy McCall on the West end, I believe. Um, I don't think the movie does it at all, but well, I've also never seen the movie. So that's another thing. The movie does not do it. The more recent movie like weirdly does it, but not in any way that seems at all associated to what I think the actual like stage production does.

[6:34] Nathan Patrick Morgan: That's a thousand percent correct. And I was shocked when I saw the movie, I was like, what, what is happening? Interesting interpretation. It is not something I would have ever thought of, but yeah. Um, no, the original one was, well, goodness, there's been so many different ones, but the original one was, uh, Gus saying it says, and I once played Growltiger could do it again, could do it again. And then he turns around, throws off his Cape and he's got this huge muscle suit on. And then he's suddenly this Bravo cat who's, um, a tiger and who is a pirate and who also happens to be an operatic tenor. Um, and then brittle bone comes on and they sing a little bit of an opera together. That's reminiscent of Puccini.

And then I have to walk the blank Growltiger dies. And then Gus old Gus would come right back out and be really sad and sing these modern productions are all very well, but you know, that little section and then leaves the stage and then suddenly Skimbleshanks.

[7:42] Mike Abrams: So you as Growltiger actually die before Isabella.

[7:42] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yes. Why don't you go there? Because it's, it's a production within a production.

[7:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So it's like peaks in the follicles almost. It's what peaks in the follicles became in the Broadway revival.

[7:54] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Got it. Makes sense. Okay. Yeah. So that's, there's, I know, I feel like I know a whole lot about this show now, at least a part of the show. And then all of a sudden I'm just like, Oh, I've never heard of that because it's not in the like few versions I saw or, or like can have access to, cause it's not like there's a big archive. It's not like what I have access to is really the 1998 movie.

[8:13] Mike Abrams: Right. Which is also a little bit different. Um, there's a cat that doesn't even exist in the stage production that they put into that, the 98 movie, um, Exotica.

[8:25] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yep. So that's fine. I don't know why they didn't bring Exotic Guy and why not just pop her in? Like, but we'll get to, cause you got to play a cat that was only in the 2016 revival, but we're going to get there. Cause I have a, I have a beef with that cat, but before we get there, when did you, so you were Gus and then you did, you closed as Old Deuteronomy, right?

[8:39] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Well, I first came in as the vocal swing covered Old Dude and Gus, and then halfway through one of the years, I was the cover for those things and a booth singer. Um, the Gus left and they decided to move me into the Gus spot and then bring back my original Gus to be the cover. And then fun story. Um, when I, we, the, the final year of that production of the original Cats tour, I was Old Deuteronomy and then the original Gus was Gus again. So we actually got to be playing company together. That was really nice.

[9:14] Mike Abrams: Cool. That's really cool. I want to ask some questions about Buster for Jones. Cause I feel like every time I talk to a Gus, I ask a lot of questions about Gus and I always feel like I don't ask them anything about Buster for Jones. And I'm hoping you can enlighten me a little bit on there.

[9:28] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I will try. I, one thing I've, I've always found fascinating is that you, as the production has generally get, and I know that in the most recent tour, a pretty good walkthrough of the story of like, here's what's happening. And like the backstory for the cats, what is Buster for Jones is like backstory. Like what's his deal.

[9:51] Nathan Patrick Morgan: He's a fat cat that is on the fringe of the tribe. He's not, um, he is a Jellicle, but he doesn't because of his fanciness have to be there all the time. He just pops in and Danes to be shown to the rest of the tribe. Uh, usually just so that the little new kittens can meet him. So he's, um, fat cat man about town only goes to the nicest places. You're not going to find him eating out of a trash dumpster. That's not behind a very, very, very nice restaurant.

[10:18] Mike Abrams: Does he go to gentlemen's clubs?

[10:24] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Probably. Yeah. I would, I would imagine that he makes it rain.

[10:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Cause that, that's my, that's my question because I do in my research found that the names that were listed for some of the places that he went to are supposed to be that type of establishment.

[10:34] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yes. He's a little bit, um, he doesn't show himself as anxious, but there's definitely a side to him that if he were running for, um, office, he might not want those photos to be used.

[10:52] Mike Abrams: Okay. God, that's a very well way of putting it. He, um, so he's not really up for the heavyset layer. No, like he doesn't even consider himself. He almost doesn't even consider himself part of the tribe. Right. As a matter of fact, I was shocked at how much, um, the, the newest movie made him a character and like kept him on the barge, paid a lot of money for him. He was expensive. I think that's, that's part of a lot of the decisions were made were made around that. I mean, I would have done it for 10% less. I don't know why they didn't hire me.

[11:22] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I think there's a, I, you know, I would have wrote it differently for, for zero and they didn't hire me either.

[11:26] Mike Abrams: I won't, I won't say anything, but it might've been better.

[11:31] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Um, okay. So you, you go on now, let me ask some of the Old Deuteronomy questions there. Did you, in the first tour sit on stage during intermission?

[11:48] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yes. And I did for the Broadway as well.

[11:51] Mike Abrams: What is that? Like, that is like a crazy thing to think about when I saw it. Cause I saw it in 2016 and just, I couldn't get over it. I'm like, I was so confused at first. I was like, that guy shouldn't be there. And then I was like, wow, how are you doing this?

[12:04] Nathan Patrick Morgan: It sucks. I'm not going to lie. I, I had had times cause we were, I mean, this was a bus and truck one night or tour when I first did it. And there were times when I had, I was going on three hours of sleep and then sitting there for all of intermission with the fog and the lights blaring at you. It makes your eyes draw together and close ever so slightly. And if you're not very careful and I have seen an old dude do this, I will not mention names, have that moment where your head is just starting to go. It's just starting to go a little bit. And then you have this enormous jolt of standing back up and everybody knew what had happened. Old dude fell asleep on stage.

[12:44] Mike Abrams: Did Old Dude ever fall asleep on stage?

[12:47] Nathan Patrick Morgan: No, I have fallen. Um, I had some costume issues at one point and, um, slipped on it, like ripped my ankle up. That was not fun. But the thing about the intermission thing that I think people don't know or recognize is that the point of Old Dude sitting on the tire for all of intermission wasn't just to have give everybody else something to look at. It was also to bridge the gap between the two acts in that 20 minutes is not supposed to have gone by. It's supposed to be like a one or two minute jaunt. That's why he sits there originally.

[13:27] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Grizabella leaves the stage after singing "Little Memory" at the end of Act 1. Old Deut sits down to ponder and go, wait a minute, I need to try and get these cats to hear her story so that there's some oomph behind choosing who goes this year. And let me think about this, and then they'll come back on when the danger has passed. And that's literally supposed to be like, she leaves the stage, he sits down, thinks for about a minute, and the other cats, the twins, come back out immediately. That makes way more sense than what I thought when I first saw it. And my original answer was like, oh, this is so people could go take selfies. And they'll be better pressed for the show after because it's a unique experience.

You don't get to do that in most other things. Right. And the one I did, well, the first tour, you weren't supposed to be able to take selfies. And since it was the tour, there were liability issues. People couldn't come up on stage and get autographs. So it was just literally watching this guy sit there. Yeah, just the whole time. Yeah, that's it. So let's fast forward to the Broadway tour, the revival. Now you get to go on as Bus Gus as well at some point, but there's no Growl Tiger because that's removed. Right. Instead, you're Peter. Well, and Rumpus Cat. So you're all four. Yes, because, well, Rumpus Cat is the character Gus is playing in "The Peaks and the Pollicles." Got it. Got it. OK, but you're Peter in the beginning.

That's correct. Tell me Peter's story, because I made up Peter's story because I just find that fascinating. Well, as far as I know, Peter doesn't really have a story. He's just mentioned in "The Naming of Cats." So they assigned, you know, Bill Bailey and Peter and I forget the other person. You're basically just all you are is a body. And actually, in the original tour, Gus wasn't Peter in the beginning. He was Gus Basic. Oh, Gus Basic. And then Old Dude wasn't. Oh, God, who was Old Dude's name? Victor. Sorry. Victor. Yeah, yeah. So Victor I knew. But Old Dude was Old Dude Basic in the original. OK, so they just decided this time we're going to take another name from "The Naming of the Cats" and assign it to Peter, just so you're not Basic Gus.

Correct. I kind of like Basic Gus. I do, too. Feels very different. That has its own backstory. It does. And it was before Basic became a thing, to be said. But now I think that Old Dude and Gus Basic just get white girl wasted on white claws. Yeah, which is probably the way people should go see the show. I am 100 percent in favor of that. So you also then cover Old Dude and a couple other cats on the Broadway tour, on the Broadway performance. And you were there the whole time, you said. No, I mean, the Broadway... The revival. The revival on Broadway. I was there the whole time as a booth singer. Old Dude, Gus covers. And then the Broadway first national tour, I came out as a replacement for the bass singer instead of the tenor, because I learned both parts.

Just in case somebody was out of the booth. And yeah, I did the same thing on the tour. I never went on the tour because we closed. Yeah, I joined the tour on January 1st of 2020. And then March 15th, we were back home. Yeah. So I think that's super interesting, because you came in later on. You're a booth singer. You seem to basically have covered almost every version of this show. You've sang multiple different roles. You've played different roles. How would you describe the story? If you have a friend coming, never seen it, you tell them to have some white claws, come to the theater. How are you explaining what they're about to see? Well, first off, I say have a six pack. All the white claws.

Black cherry. I've done this many times and to many different people. It always depends on the person, how I explain it to them, because I try to make them, in the simplest way possible, enjoy it. And they're never going to get the backstory that I have, because just sidebar, I think the interesting thing about "Cats" is, without waxing too philosophical, there are so many different cats and so many different things that you can find to like, or understand, or empathize with each of the cats, that those backstories that are created by the actors, and it's different for every production. For sure. Yeah, the backstories— It's the beauty of the show, I think. Exactly. They get to write their own backstories together in their own interactions.

But also, you can, as an audience member, absolutely impose whatever you want. If you want this cat to be dating that cat, this one to be gay, that one to be bi, whatever, it doesn't matter. There should be a trans cat. It doesn't even, you can do whatever you want with this story. And I think that's fantastic. So I will say that. Someone who did, they did a drag cat in a college production. I would love that. So there it is. There are some versions of this out there. Hey, I played the witch in "Into the Woods" in high school, so I'm all for it. It sounds like you're basically, and I do want to hear your answer to this though, but it sounds like you're telling your friend, hey, you're going to relate to this cat.

And so this is, just get ready for this number, because that's you. Yeah. So that they have something to look forward to and also someone to root for. And I don't specifically tell them exactly what's happening with Grizabella, but I will explain, hey, okay, so this is what's going on. It's a big party. Once a year, this group of cats who are like besties come together to celebrate and then choose one of them to be reincarnated. And they all have to like show off for each other and tell each other what they've been doing for the past year. And then the patriarch of the tribe or matriarch for the movie comes in and says, I'm going to pick you. But the important thing to remember is Old Deuteronomy gets the final say for which cat is chosen.

But if you remember after Grizabella is touched, finally, all of the cats line up and choose her first. So he, I mean, the whole point of it is so the choosing of the person to go on is not as important as everyone else who stays with the tribe, learning a lesson and becoming better people through their story. So did your interpretation of the story change over time as you got to see it from different characters? Yes, very much so. Well, I had only, when I first got cast, I had only seen that one production when I was like 14, right? The radio show Free Tickets. Yes. And then I show up and I'm terrified. I mean, I'm terrified. I'm literally thinking I'm going to be in a unitard. My wobbly bits are out there for everybody to see.

This is like horrifying to me. But I mean, that's the thing. You have to stand naked on stage anyway, so might as well let it happen. And then I get to the rehearsal, right? The second rehearsal, after I sang all that stuff, right? The next rehearsal, or at the end of that rehearsal, the director says, all right, we have a new tribe member. You know, Nathan Patrick Morgan's here with us and we'll have to induct him into the tribe on Monday when we come back. And so I spend the next 36 hours, 48 hours almost. Wondering what that means. Wondering what the hell is going to happen to me when I show up on Monday and what I should wear for it. Do I wear cologne? I don't know. And then of course I walk in and they're like, okay, we're going to do Felinity.

We know we're all on the floor doing things to make ourselves more feline or comfortable on four legs. And then they're like, okay, Nathan, why don't you come up and embody Old Deuteronomy? Because I was the cover. And just stand there and we're all going to induct you into the tribe. And I literally had the entire cast of swings and onstage cats crawling around me in a circle and rubbing up against me and purring on me and like pawing at me. And I was terrified because I didn't know if I was supposed to do something like pick them up. Do I pet them? Do I crawl? Am I supposed to be crawling around on the floor? So that was my real introduction. Sorry, that's a bit of a side story. That's a great story though.

That was your entrance to the tribe. So you were accepted into this cult by that moment and you're going to make the decision many times a week. Yes, eventually. It was an intense exposure to the show, not having really remembered anything about it. And then, but I was, this is me being nervous. I was not letting anybody else in the production know that I didn't know what I was doing. So I would speak to people and they would say, oh my God, so Bob and Demeter are supposed to be here at this point. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Bob and Demeter. What is that? I would have laughed even more if they had said Bob's full name. Like what? But so you didn't like when you, I guess it happened quickly, you said, but you didn't go and like rewatch the 1998 movie to try to prep for this.

Did you? I did not. And I've heard people say repeatedly after the fact, after I knew what I was doing, I heard people come into the show and not have any, had never seen it at all. And people say snide things like, well, it's not like there's been a movie out for 20 years or anything. So I think that that's a, there's some pros and cons to having seen it. Like at one, at some point as an actor, you want to make it your own to what you said earlier. Like there's so many ways that this is done and you bring kind of your own flavor to the role. You don't want to just do the 1998 movie. That is definitely true. No actor does. And there's a fine balance when you're covering a character too. There's a fine balance between making it completely your own and doing things that the rest of the company is going to be comfortable with or not used to.

Cause you don't, you want to keep it fresh every night, but you also don't want to be such a departure from what they know and understand that it shocks them or breaks them on stage, in my opinion. So there is that fine line, but I kind of look at it as this. I don't have to try to be different than the person that I'm understudying or try to be unique in any way to what other people have seen. All I have to do is bring me to it because that in and of itself is going to change how it's perceived by other people. Yeah. That's a, it's a great way to look at it. Also takes the pressure off. I want to go back to you telling your friends, different cats that they should be watching. Did you ever, did you ever have somebody to say like, very, very angry that you're like, I can't believe you said I'm Bustopher Jones, you know, like, or did they come back to you?

I'm always the one that people say is Bustopher Jones. Like I'm, I'm the, I'm the fat, fluffy, funny one. So, um, if I do say so myself, I'm very entertaining. No, uh, no, I haven't. I did. Well, that's not true. I did have one person that I told was Jenny Antidots and they were not offended, uh, except that, Oh my God, her voice is so high. And like, she's kind of annoying. This was the person that was playing and had a very high voice. She's so annoying sounding like, I can't believe you think that's me. And I was like, well, first off, um, I don't think that that is annoying sounding at all. And secondly, yes, you do sound exactly like her. So go record yourself and get over it. I thought you were going to be like, Oh, not at all.

You're very motherly and you keep things in order. You're like, no, your voice is that high. You scream at people when you're drunk. That's what I mean. I love it. I love it. So they're going to drink six pack. They're going to find out something that they didn't know about themselves and they're going to get to see cats. That's. And if nothing else, they're going to sit there and experience the magic of theater, blah, blah, blah. But it really is an incredible experience to sit there and to, even if you have no idea what's going on and you don't care to figure it out, cause the lighting can also be very dark. If you can just sit there and enjoy it and not try and impose a narrative on it and just take it as like a performance art piece.

You also come away with something interesting. You may not know what it is that you came home with, but I guarantee you, you will have a weird cat stream at some point. And it would probably be sexual. Confusing cat stream. It's going to be Tugger or Bomb and Demeter. You're going to be some like straight dude that's like literally crash crushing beer cans on his forehead and then have a sex stream with Tugger and be very confused the next day. I did, I did ask a couple of Tuggers how many like furries and potential like men that they feel like they might've turned. Cause it's definitely, it's a thing. I wouldn't say turned, but.

[26:55] Nathan Patrick Morgan: That he's using the Jellicle ball and the reincarnation as a way to just get his next kill.

[27:25] Mike Abrams: As someone who's played the character, do you see that? Do you buy that?

[27:55] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I have never thought of it that way. I could see how if one of my friends were in the audience and chose to come back with that as a reaction, I would love it.

[28:21] Mike Abrams: And then give them another white claw.

[28:23] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah. I think this person was drunk when they told you this.

[28:28] Mike Abrams: No, I don't know. I've never thought of that and playing it myself.

[28:32] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Why would you?

[28:35] Mike Abrams: But that's hysterical and I can actually see it. It's stuck with me.

[28:40] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Because I've thought about this story arcs from a lot of different angles and all the different interpretations. And the fact that the ball is really just an orgy and everything in between. And I never come to that conclusion. And now I'm like, I see it. And I kind of like this story better. It's plausible. It's like Dexter the Cat's musical.

[29:00] Mike Abrams: Exactly. There's a lot of ways to do it.

[29:03] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Okay. Now, you're Old Deuteronomy. You have a different lens. I've heard a couple different theories on the Grizabella choice from Old Deuteronomy from different people I've played it. Are you—how do you view your decision as Old Deuteronomy with Grizabella as the choice?

[29:26] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I view it as I decided when I saw her sing "Little Memory" that I chose her. But that there's no way I would make that decision without having the rest of the Jellicles choose it first. Because then what's the point? They've learned nothing.

[29:42] Mike Abrams: So you know halfway through the show. I don't need to see—I don't care what Mistoffelees does. He's not going to wow me enough. She's won. But I need everybody else to kind of come in and get their lesson, as you're saying.

[29:58] Nathan Patrick Morgan: They need to learn something. They need to learn that they're being horrible. I mean, when Grizabella comes out for the first time, all of the adult cats are like—the kittens are interested in her. At least want to give her a chance and sniff on her or something. And all of the adult cats are like, no, no, no. Get away. Get back. Just teaching them that, like, what? Don't talk to homeless people? Like, really horrible things.

[30:22] Mike Abrams: The kittens aren't allowed to make up their own minds.

[30:24] Nathan Patrick Morgan: The adults are saying no. And the cats are like, but why? And then the adult cats are like, because I said so. And that's not a good enough answer for me. It also shows that there needs to be some growth in the adult cats. So I need to let them find that for themselves. Because who's going to tell an adult, you need to be more accepting and open?

[30:43] Mike Abrams: And hopefully society soon.

[30:47] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Well, it's starting to happen.

[30:50] Mike Abrams: Yeah. But, okay, so I definitely see the angles of understanding and "Little Memory." That, like, okay, this is the choice. She's been through a lot. Like, you're kind of seeing the tribe not being fully accepting but kind of needing to come around. But I've not thought about it from the angle of, like, it's all the adults' fault.

[31:10] Nathan Patrick Morgan: It's all the other adults' fault. And they're the ones that really are probably also in the running. And so I'm going to teach them a lesson by making them wait this out and having to come to that conclusion themselves.

[31:21] Mike Abrams: Right. Having them have to turn around, but it has to be their own idea. Now, when you're playing Gus, how angry are you that you're not the choice?

[31:31] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Well, not at all.

[31:32] Mike Abrams: Not at all?

[31:33] Nathan Patrick Morgan: No, because I've also come to the decision to choose her at that point.

[31:36] Mike Abrams: At that point? Okay, because you're after "Little Memory" as well.

[31:40] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Right. So now you've already come around. So you're the most adult of the adults.

[31:45] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[31:46] Nathan Patrick Morgan: And you're saying, okay, I'm ready. I'm okay with this. So you're not upset that you're not the choice?

[31:51] Nathan Patrick Morgan: No, because I also didn't put myself up in the running. It's staged that Old Deuteronomy decides that nobody's heard from Gus in a while. None of these kittens really know who Gus is. How about we bring him out and have him say, hey, just because I'm a has-been in your eyes doesn't mean I'm not worthwhile. Listen, everybody has a story, and we're all valid.

[32:13] Mike Abrams: But even then, Gus never said, hey, listen to me, old dude.

[32:17] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Old Deuteronomy says, Gus, will you please tell your story? And Gus says no. And then Old Deuteronomy convinces him to do it, and he reluctantly agrees to and actually is so shy and uncomfortable telling his story in the beginning that Jellylorum—I almost said Jelly Any Dots. Jellylorum has to take this.

[32:36] Mike Abrams: Because they're all very normal cat names.

[32:38] Nathan Patrick Morgan: They are. Jellylorum, that makes me want to eat breakfast.

[32:41] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[32:42] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Okay. So I see that. I never thought about it that way. I've never—to me, Gus is in the running and probably a contender.

[32:51] Mike Abrams: Well, they all are.

[32:52] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah, but you're saying he doesn't even want to be. He has to be convinced to even perform. And it's really a favorite for Old Deuteronomy to kind of reinforce the message.

[33:01] Mike Abrams: Absolutely.

[33:02] Nathan Patrick Morgan: That's when you start. That's when you can see and understand that Old Deuteronomy is doing everything on purpose and act to make a certain thing happen, because he also starts Skimbleshanks.

[33:12] Mike Abrams: And is that what you figure out during your intermission cat nap?

[33:15] Nathan Patrick Morgan: That's exactly what I'm meditating on in my head.

[33:19] Mike Abrams: That's your moment.

[33:20] Nathan Patrick Morgan: That and also like, wow, I'm really hungry, or I shouldn't have eaten that. I have acid reflux. But what I'm supposed to be thinking, what the audience is to think that I'm thinking, if they could possibly hear my subtext, is, yeah, how can I use all of the things, all the tools at my disposal to get them to come to the same conclusion that I've come to?

[33:43] Mike Abrams: So if I'm doing this in order, and I'm doing this off of a very, very bad memory of seeing the movie only like once and a half.

[33:50] Nathan Patrick Morgan: That's okay. I forgot, too. So you have that moment, and then it's Gus, and then it's Skimbleshanks, and then is it Mistoffelees?

[33:59] Mike Abrams: And then it's "Memory"?

[34:01] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I mean, there's also the Macavity.

[34:03] Mike Abrams: Oh, the Macavity fight.

[34:04] Nathan Patrick Morgan: And the Macavity duet between Bombalurina and Demeter.

[34:06] Mike Abrams: Oh, yeah. See, the thing is, people see the song "Macavity" as Bombalurina and Demeter saying, we're up for it. And that's not it. Old Deuteronomy's gone. He's not even on stage at that time.

[34:16] Nathan Patrick Morgan: He's kidnapped.

[34:17] Mike Abrams: He's kidnapped.

[34:19] Nathan Patrick Morgan: But still, that doesn't mean Bombalurina and Demeter are out of the running. I think that that song is purely in there to counterbalance Tugger's.

[34:26] Mike Abrams: Oh, yeah. It's definitely meant to be very sexy.

[34:30] Nathan Patrick Morgan: So they're in the running, but not really. They're both going through their own stuff.

[34:36] Mike Abrams: Right.

[34:37] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Their backstories, which I've covered in length on this podcast. Bombalurina kind of likes it, and Demeter does, too, but she's a little bit scared.

[34:44] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[34:46] Nathan Patrick Morgan: And so their performance is almost ignored because there's no judge there. But at that point, in your eyes, it doesn't matter. You've already decided, and they're just singing to be singing.

[34:56] Mike Abrams: So that's the one. So it's almost all adults except for Mistoffelees at the end.

[35:01] Nathan Patrick Morgan: So that story really fits. I like that.

[35:04] Mike Abrams: Well, Mistoffelees—well, sorry, I don't mean to be terribly corrective, but Mistoffelees is not an adult, per se.

[35:10] Nathan Patrick Morgan: That's what I'm saying. He's the one non-adult.

[35:13] Mike Abrams: But he's not a kitten either.

[35:15] Nathan Patrick Morgan: He's a teenager, right?

[35:16] Mike Abrams: He's in the middle.

[35:17] Nathan Patrick Morgan: He's actually ageless.

[35:18] Mike Abrams: He's ageless?

[35:19] Nathan Patrick Morgan: So there's another layer if it doesn't make sense.

[35:22] Mike Abrams: Yes, he is ageless because he's magic.

[35:24] Nathan Patrick Morgan: That's why the movie shocked me so much, because they made him so obviously flawed.

[35:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I didn't like that decision.

[35:32] Nathan Patrick Morgan: It wasn't my favorite. I do see the reasons why to have more of a through line for his character, not just to come in and save the day.

[35:45] Mike Abrams: I get the choice.

[35:46] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Making him a little kind of nerdy and quiet takes all of the mystique and fun out of his performance.

[35:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it took a lot of his interestingness away for me because he's supposed to be magical and these amazing things happen, and then to have him not be magical naturally in the way that I expected, and then also have him fail so many times, it's just like you're not even good at up close. You're not even good at card tricks, dude.

[36:18] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah.

[36:19] Mike Abrams: Okay, so I didn't picture that layer. I like this theory.

[36:22] Nathan Patrick Morgan: It's similar to another Old Deuteronomy who's told me, but he said that it was in the beginning. He knew from day one. He knew before the day started who he was picking, and the whole thing was about teaching a lesson.

[36:35] Mike Abrams: So you're saying similar, but "Little Memory" is when it's like, okay, it's time.

[36:40] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah. That's when I—yes, just because I wasn't there when she first came into the picture, so I wouldn't have chosen. I wouldn't have known that she was around.

[36:49] Mike Abrams: That she was even back.

[36:50] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I mean, this is my story. The other Old Deuteronomy, you know, who knows what he might have talked to her the day before in his...

[36:57] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no right answer.

[37:00] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Right, which is also great. It takes the pressure off.

[37:03] Mike Abrams: I've argued that Grizabella is objectively the wrong answer, as I've argued that there's no wrong answer.

[37:09] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Right.

[37:10] Mike Abrams: In your personal view of the world of Cats, Grizabella is the wrong choice.

[37:13] Nathan Patrick Morgan: In my view of the world of Cats, she's the wrong choice because I viewed it as the X factor, and that was not my favorite performance. It was a great performance. It wasn't my favorite to win a singing competition and dancing competition.

[37:24] Mike Abrams: I know.

[37:25] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Well, clearly I should win, but whatever.

[37:27] Mike Abrams: As Old Deuteronomy, I would pick myself and be like, go ahead, MonkaStrap, you got this next time.

[37:33] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Yeah, you're up. I'm done. It's your time. I've had 99 wives.

[37:38] Mike Abrams: Yeah, exactly.

[37:40] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I'm exhausted.

[37:42] Mike Abrams: Hey, you are the father of like every kitten that's there, pretty much.

[37:45] Nathan Patrick Morgan: So let's do some rapid fire. You've played a lot of different Cats, but if there's one that you haven't played that you would want to just go on one day for, forgetting, take all vocal range or anything out of this, what track would you want to be able to do one day?

[38:02] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Bomb.

[38:03] Mike Abrams: Bomb.

[38:04] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Bomb Ballerina. And I would look great in that unitard. I know nobody can see me right now, but I would look great.

[38:10] Mike Abrams: You're going to own that entire number.

[38:12] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I'm going to own it and own all my curves. I still think that's my favorite song.

[38:18] Mike Abrams: It is.

[38:19] Nathan Patrick Morgan: It's a very sexy song. It's definitely one that you can play in the background, and if people don't know the show, they won't notice. Just because it sounds really cool, like sticking it into a jazz mix.

[38:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[38:30] Nathan Patrick Morgan: So that goes to my next one. Favorite and least favorite song from the show.

[38:34] Mike Abrams: Ooh, I've – wow.

[38:38] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I think my – well, can I say the Macavity – the original Macavity fight I did not like.

[38:43] Mike Abrams: Yeah, there's a lot of answers.

[38:45] Nathan Patrick Morgan: I didn't love the way it was written.

[38:51] Mike Abrams: Favorite song?

[38:53] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Macavity or Skimbleshanks.

[38:55] Mike Abrams: Those are good ones.

[38:56] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Skimbleshanks is so much fun to sing.

[38:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[38:59] Nathan Patrick Morgan: It's got to be fun to do too, I mean, because it's like you're building a train and it's kind of like an interesting dance number.

[39:06] Mike Abrams: It seems like.

[39:07] Nathan Patrick Morgan: As someone who knows nothing about dance and just watched it, it seems kind of unique.

[39:11] Mike Abrams: They do something horrible to the actors.

[39:14] Nathan Patrick Morgan: There's a part where they're all in a semicircle listening to Skimbleshanks, and they're in like a little crunch. So their butts are on the floor, but nothing else is on the floor. And then they have to pop up and down to the music.

[39:31] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[39:32] Nathan Patrick Morgan: For like way too long.

[39:33] Mike Abrams: Oh, and sing.

[39:35] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Thank goodness I never had to do that. I was always either doing some sort of costume change when I was Gus or, as Old Deuteronomy, just sitting there watching everyone else be thin.

[39:44] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[39:46] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Go ahead. I just ate mac and cheese.

[39:49] Mike Abrams: What about favorite and least favorite cat?

[39:53] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Character, not actor.

[39:56] Mike Abrams: Oh, well, that is different.

[39:58] Nathan Patrick Morgan: Well, because.

[39:59] Mike Abrams: Most people don't want to answer the actor one, so that's why I'm like let's just stick with the character.

[40:03] Nathan Patrick Morgan: No, no, no, but, I mean, think about it. If somebody is playing a role and they bring themselves to that role and you don't necessarily get on with them, that can sometimes seep into your stage, how you interact with each other on stage, because, again, we get to make that up in Cats. The back story is not so solid.

[40:23] Nathan Patrick Morgan: And that's why there's a lot of the fan theories exist because usually like they're friends and but they're not supposed to be friends in the show, but they kind of have good stage presence together because they know each other really well. For that tour, like... The Dockyards are angry because these two cats are hanging out together and they're not supposed to. Right. Or like, oh my gosh, Tantamile likes Carbuckety too much. Goodness. That's true. My least favorite... Is that a sentence you ever thought you would say when you were like 10? No, literally half the things that have come out of my mouth during this podcast are not things I never thought I'd say. Me neither. Jelly Laura makes me want to eat breakfast.

Yeah. That's going to be the beginning of the description for this. Least favorite character. That's a really hard question to answer. In that, a character that I wouldn't want to play? No, just it could be any answer. It could be you just don't like the personality of that cat. It could be... I've heard everything in between. I've always said Peter. Okay. I guess my least favorite cat would be Carbuckety. Carbuckety. What about favorite? Not because I didn't like the actors. I actually enjoyed them very much. But because as like an adult in my horror... Yeah, looking at Carbuckety, I'm like, oh my god, you're annoying. Stop starting fights. Calm down. It's just one of the reasons that I don't want to have children is Carbuckety.

He is birth control. That's okay. Favorite cat is Bomb. Bomb, yeah. It's going to be Bomb. You're in. My answer now is going to be... Well, I almost got to play Tugger. We had some problems with like actors, you know, it's cats. And it was a one-nighter bus and truck. And we were out of Tuggers. We were just out of Tuggers. And they were like, who can learn it fast? And I was like, okay, it's not a huge dance track. I mean, I can dance. But they were like, how are we going to make this happen? We're going to have to sew two of the jackets together. And they were like, but we can make this work. It'll be Meatloaf Tugger. And it almost happened. I even sang it with the musical director to make sure it was good.

Like, that was terrifying. It didn't happen. Why not? Who went on? They found somebody and brought them in. That was a previous swing to come in and do Tugger. They flew somebody in. They're like, no Meatloaf Tugger today. Well, maybe. You know what it might have been? They ran it up the chain. And the really useful group said, absolutely not. And I wish they had said, but let's use him for the movie. Do you remember what city that was in? I have no idea. Again, this was like, I look at my swag from the years, which we had to make ourselves, by the way, and just look at the backs of the shirt or the sweatshirt and see how many cities we played in six or seven months. And I don't see how it's possible.

One time we did a stint where we had 17 one-nighters in a row with no day off. Wow. This was non-equity. Of course, they couldn't do that to an equity cast. But 17 in a row one-nighters. And also in situations where they're like, OK, so there are leaks everywhere and backstage. You're going to get splinters everywhere. This is going to be terrible. Just get through it. Oh, also, everybody is in this one tiny room. There are no mirrors or lights. So go to the bathroom one at a time and put on your makeup. I mean, it was very difficult. But I think because of that and the hardships we went through, how difficult it was to actually get through. That's some of my nearest and dearest friends I have from there.

Actually, my partner. Yeah. I met on my first year of tour. Yeah. I mean, those are the days that you slept during intermission, for sure. Absolutely was nodding off and maybe leaned on one side a little bit. So I could hide it in my beard. So we've kind of covered this a little bit in terms of why Old Deuteronomy chooses Grizabella. But let's suspend your theory on that. And as you, Nathan, if you were writing the show, if you got to pick, would you pick Grizabella as the jellicle choice or would you pick somebody else? If I were writing the show, I would still pick Grizabella, but I would have her be more of a presence on stage more often. Bring her in earlier. Bring her in earlier, have her be part of the jellicle tribe that nobody likes, not have her being coming in for the first time in years, you know?

Yeah. Just so there was more of a solid, obvious reason why everybody hates her. Also, I would want to try and make the audience hate her too in the beginning. And then have... And then let the audience have the journey as well. Yeah. And you're also teaching them at intermission on why they need to accept her. Correct. But I don't think that exists because, I mean, in the concept of the show as it is, it's just that, oh, there's an audience here. Actually, we're going to do our thing and we're going to turn our backs to you. We don't care that you're here. We are allowing you to stay in our presence. But this is not about you. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. I've argued against that decision, but I respect it.

I respectfully disagree. I mean, there's a lot here that's kind of fun. The angle of needing to teach the old cats a lesson that's very clear that they're not following. And meatloaf Tugger. I wish that happened. I was like, now I'm rooting for you. Me too, more than anything. You have no idea. I guess Tugger's another one that I would also like to try once. For no other reason just to wear the padding and the collar. Have you ever just run the number? No. I mean, I've sung it. I had to sing it with the music director in the band. But yeah. You're not just in your basement or something, just going out there and saying, like, what are we going to do? I'm going to do Tugger's part today. No, I do not often.

Well, this is strange, I guess, because it's my profession. I do not often sing around the house or listen to music very much at all. Someone needs to pay you or you're not doing it. Isn't that awful? No. I mean, I love to sing so much. But then I feel like, you know, I had a dance teacher at MSM. Sorry, a dance teacher. A movement for singers. He was definitely a dancer, but we were not. Movement for singers, that's a nice way to title the class. They taught us how to do opera dances like Mazurka or whatever, Polonaise. And then they also taught us how to faint properly on stage or, like, go from standing to lying on our sides while still singing. So that's the type of class that was. And he said to me, the universe or God only gives you so many plies and so many high notes.

Do not waste them on trivialities. And I kind of went, that is a pretentious, wonderful thing to say. It also gets me out of doing too many plies. I am going to be living my life by that mantra from here on out. That, and I had a friend in Phantom who said to me, never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lie down, and never pass up a chance to go to the bathroom. And when I went back out on tour, I absolutely lived by those rules. And it helped tremendously. I have heard your more recent tour. There were certain places where it's just like, there's one or two bathrooms. And you, I guess it's depending on who you're going out as, but like, you're in the show. A lot of them are on stage most of the time.

That's like, you have to plan your bathroom breaks. And if you're not even, it doesn't matter because you're sweating like a pig in the unitard and you have to take it off and then put it back on wet, which is the worst part about that is when we would like, oh, I don't know where it's February or March and we're in the coldest, coldest parts of Canada, like Quebec, you know, Quebec City, Nova Scotia, wherever we were, freezing cold, awful. And then we fly down to like the bottom part of Texas or the bottom part of Florida and it's sunny and gorgeous. And of course, everybody runs out to the pool. And then we all get sunburns because we're terribly professional. And then we go on to the stage.

Also, since we were in Southern Texas, we're eating Mexican food that, you know, we were poor too. So we went to the crappy ones. And apropos word choice, then we go backstage, have to put on this unitard. Now, Code Brown happens during part of the show. We have to run off the stage, talk to the stage manager, be like, take me out, Code Brown. Then they talk, they turn off our mics. We run over to our dresser. Help me get out of this. I got to get out of this right now. Peel it off, go to the restroom. Running back on, trying to peel, put this back, this wet, disgusting unitard back on over a really bad sunburn. And it's just a wonderful moment. That is behind the scenes. Behind the scenes. Okay.

Cats on tour. I taught people about Code Brown. Sorry. You can cut that if you need to. That's staying in. I do, as someone who's definitely just a theater goer and hasn't gone to all that many. I went to more once I moved to New York. But I've heard of like, oh, someone gets hurt and then a different person comes out and performs in the second after intermission. And I'm like, I don't think I've ever seen that, which seems like something that's probably pretty rare. And at the same time, I'm also like, I also probably would have never noticed unless it's like one of the main characters. And in Cats, it's even harder. People definitely noticed when I went on my first year on tour, that happened.

And our old Deuteronomy at intermission just felt dizzy and sick. And they were like, Nathan, you have nine minutes, go. And we would do time trials to make sure we could do our makeup as swings and covers in under 15 minutes. So we would run back. My fastest was, I think, nine minutes and 11 seconds. But I got into old Deuteronomy, walked right back out, right out, right before Act Two started, sat down. And I was much, I was like a foot shorter. They called me Pocket Dude because they were like, oh, you're like a little gerbil. So thanks. But it wasn't wrong. So I went on. And the only way they would have noticed was the fact that now you have Macavity and you have Tugger, who have enormous hair and are also a foot taller than me.

So add the hair on to it. And I looked like tiny in between them. But that would be the only way they would know. Even then, I feel like that's either a super fan or someone who was like, it's the friend that you were like, oh, you're going to relate to old dude. And so they're watching old dude. It's like, whoa, what? Old dude shrunk between during intermission. My friend on stage. Yeah, that's the possibly the most boring song in the entire show. Sorry. That's another point. Well, Deuteronomy has, I think, a very difficult spot that the 11 o'clock number has happened. Grizabella has been shot through the roof. And now everyone thinks it's time to get up and have a mega mix dance party, except calm down, everyone. I'm going to sing a four minute song for you now. Very, very difficult. I mean, it's a stunning ending. It's gorgeous, but it is not an easy one to do anyway.

[52:33] Nathan Patrick Morgan: So the final question is, how can we find you on social media? How can we stay in touch? Well, I have a fan page on Facebook, Nathan Patrick Morgan. And for my Instagram, it's Nathan Patrick Morgan. Twitter is at Napaymo. That is also my Venmo in case anybody wants to send me money. That's pretty much it. I'm going to be starting a TikTok soon. Probably baking and audiobooks. I have some audiobooks out under Nathan Morgan and some under a different name as well. That is very cryptic and old Deuteronomy-esque right there, which is strange. We'll let the superfans, if there are any out there listening, try and find them.

[53:33] Mike Abrams: Thank you for being here. And thanks, everyone else, for listening to this episode on The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat, Sashafi. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at TheWrongCatDied or check out our website, thewrongcatdied.com.