This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catastrophe. I'm your host Mike Abrams and today we have another amazing guest.

[0:23] Mike Abrams: She's been Victoria in many productions of Cats including the 2014 UK tour, the West End Revival and is currently in the Vienna Revival. So welcome Hannah Kenna Thomas and thank you for joining me.

[0:34] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Thank you for having me.

[0:36] Mike Abrams: I am excited because you've been Victoria for many years now. I always love to hear first though, before 2014, I know you're a dancer and to do Victoria you have to have a big dance background, but how much about Cats did you know before you joined the tour?

[0:55] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So I knew quite a lot about Cats.

[0:58] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[0:59] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So I was a very big Cats fan when I was younger. It was actually the first musical I'd ever seen because it was like a VHS back in the day. And I remember watching and just being completely in awe of it, like completely obsessed. I just had never seen anything like it before. And the reason I watched it was because when I was younger, we used to go on holiday to this little place in Wales where I'm from. And they used to have this karaoke competition. And I remember thinking, oh, really unusual song that no one knows. And my mom was like, oh, you should do "Memory" from Cats. It's Cats, you know? So that's how I watched the video. And I remember watching it and being like, oh my God, mom, I don't want to be that one.

Obviously, for a little girl, you know, you don't want to be that one. I want to be the white one. So I literally like as a young girl grew up, you know, I made my mom buy me a white cat suit when I was younger, before I even started dancing. And I used to pretend I was in it in my living room.

[2:16] Mike Abrams: Wow. Did you ever do karaoke? Did you ever do "Memory" in karaoke?

[2:21] Hannah Kenna Thomas: I did. Of course, I didn't win because, you know, I'm not a Grizabella. But I remember I finished "Memory" and at the end of it, I go down into the splits to finish it off, which, of course, is completely like ridiculous. But, you know, I thought it was amazing back then.

[2:42] Mike Abrams: That is awesome. So you, okay, so you're obsessed. You have the cat suit growing up.

[2:49] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah.

[2:50] Mike Abrams: And then, you know what? I kind of forgot about it for a few days because obviously life goes on and I kind of like geared off into the ballet world. I completely forgot about it. And then how did you end up back? Did you see the audition and you're just like, oh, it's time? Or did you get a call? Like, how did you end up on tour the first time?

[3:08] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Another crazy story. So I was, I left ballet school 2013. And before I left, I knew I didn't want to continue. I was like, you know what? The ballet route, it's not for me. It's not what I want for my life. I don't fit in, you know. So I was kind of like had a loose end. And I ended up getting a job in Spain at this like showgirl palace, which was really cool. Really got me out of my shell from the ballet world, as I say, you know, and got my confidence back because I lost a lot of confidence with performing stuff being at school. Anyway, I was there for about five months. I had a bit of a rough time and I had to leave for, you know, a few reasons. So I left my contract early and I thought, right, I want to try musical theater.

So obviously in the ballet world, you don't need agents. You know, you just go to open halls and audition at the musical theater in the UK. I'm sure it's the same as America. You need, I'm not sure. Actually, you need an agent. You're talking to the wrong person. But you need an agent to audition. So I was just, you know, at home sending off all my stuff to these agents. Had a really crappy home movie that I made in my old dance school with my mom filming, you know, very comical. And anyway, my mom ends up bumping into a friend of hers who we knew from my old dance school because her son's in the musical theater world. And she said, oh, Matt's agent's casting Cats. And yeah, Matt's going to go for it.

And then my mom obviously comes home and she says, oh, send your stuff off to this agent because he's casting Cats. And I was like, oh, mom, just leave it, leave it. You know, when your mom tries to get involved. I was like, just leave it like it's fine. In the end, she kept pestering me. Okay, I'll just send it off to this agent just to shut you up. And yeah, I remember he emailed me back a few days later and he was like, hi, Hannah, senior staff. We're actually looking for a white cat at the minute. Here's the audition. The audition was in a few days time. There you go. And I was like, and it was kind of one of the moments where I looked at this email and I thought like this. This meant so much to me at one point in my life.

And then here I am, like found in this situation like years later. And it just seemed a bit like magical. I mean, as cringe as that sounds, but it does. It just felt a little bit strange, a little bit. You couldn't write this stuff, you know.

[6:09] Mike Abrams: Did you? I'm assuming you dusted off your old white cats.

[6:11] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Well, I mean, strangely, that's a new way to be found. I'd love to find it to this day, but I don't know. It's gone. It's at the Heaviside Layer.

[6:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[6:17] Mike Abrams: So one thing I always find really interesting and I'd be curious to hear your kind of thought on it is in times when this was such a like this was the character you as a kid grew up and then you get to do it. You get to do it now professionally. How does that like? Is it a little bit like does it does it keep the moment for you? Does it ruin the moment for you? Like what is it like to be able to sustain something that was so important to you as a child and then to have it as a job?

[6:43] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah, profession. I think it's the best thing in the world. You know, it actually just makes me so grateful, you know, because the show is so hard. And even when you have them days of, oh, I'm tired or this and that, I always just think of me as a little girl, literally wanting to do this. And there's always something so magical in that for me. And I am so grateful. And as you can tell, I love the show so much. So it's a good thing. It's a good thing.

[7:12] Mike Abrams: Okay, that's good to hear. I always like you hear some I do a lot more stuff in the sports world and you hear stuff in sports where we're like the journalists who are fans. It's like it almost ruins their fandom because then they have to do it for their job. And so it's good to hear that that's not the case. It's still like super passionate.

[7:31] Mike Abrams: For sure. I want to talk about a few of the productions. So you went out on tour. This is very early in your career. What was the first UK tour like?

[7:42] Hannah Kenna Thomas: That was your first musical theater.

[7:45] Hannah Kenna Thomas: That's right. Yeah.

[7:46] Mike Abrams: So tell me about that tour. Like how's Cats received across the UK? Because I've talked to some U.S. tour members and especially some of the first U.S. tour members where it was an experience. You know, it's pretty wild bringing this to the show across the country. What was it like in a smaller town where you would go perform?

[8:10] Hannah Kenna Thomas: It was amazing. It was such a good experience. You know, it was it was a bit of a culture shock with, you know, having to book things everywhere. I'm not having a clue like how this stuff works. But it was amazing. And you know what? The UK audience, they love Cats. Cats is just one of them shows. I'm not sure about the U.S. It's probably the same, but it's you know, I think people either love it or they hate it. So, of course, the people who come to watch it, we love it. So the audiences are always amazing. And it was it was just amazing to be on stage every night and see that and, you know, feel the appreciation. And it was wild. Yeah, it was it was an incredible like start to my career. I know touring is hard for sure, but it's it's worth it because it's like, you know, you never really rest. You never really settle. You're constantly on the go. You're constantly, you know, but it was a lot of fun.

[9:08] Mike Abrams: Now you then you go and you are come off tour and you're in the West End revival.

[9:14] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah.

[9:15] Mike Abrams: Which is, I mean, so where the show started. That was not planned from the way that was a complete fluke. The tour was meant to finish like a certain year after maybe. And Andrew Lloyd Webber and Trevor Nunn came to watch in one of the small venues in North Wales, where I'm from. And we didn't know about this. You get in. We got in to put our makeup on, you know, your time for the show. And the company manager says, oh, we've got a VIP guest in tonight. And we were like, hey, you know, like, you know, expecting a celebrity or I don't know. Andrew Lloyd Webber. And we were like, shit. You know, it was, you know, the pressure goes off then, of course. And from then they saw the show and obviously maybe there was a gap in the West End or something.

They wanted to fill the Palladium at a certain point. We didn't know any of this. And they liked the cast. They liked everything. And from then it was when they decide, right, we're going to pull the entry to venues. I'm bringing it to London. So that was how it was planned. However, we weren't, you know, when it was told to us a week later, what was said was they're bringing it to London based on this tour. Meaning you don't know if you're going to go to London. So, yes. So they're going to bring the quote unquote tour to London. People, maybe actors, maybe actresses, maybe.

[10:53] Mike Abrams: So tell me about what is it like when you're finishing putting your makeup on and you have that moment where they say, hey, the creators of this show are sitting in the audience in this tiny theater. You can probably see that. Yeah. What goes through your mind with that?

[11:08] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Oh, it's crazy, actually. I mean, it's different for everyone. But for me, you know, you can perform to thousands of people and not do your own thing and be in your own world. But as soon as you know someone, even a friend in the audience. It gives me anxiety somehow, especially with like important people. But you kind of like you kind of have to just like let it be, let it be that and just get on with it how you usually do the show. Which never is. It's never as good. You know, the show is always a little bit more weirder because you're putting too much pressure on yourself, really. But, yeah, it's a little bit of anxiety for me.

[11:51] Mike Abrams: So which was harder when Andrew Lloyd Webber was there or when like your mom or your family?

[11:57] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Oh, my mom and my friend. Hundred percent. That was more.

[12:03] Mike Abrams: Okay. Now for the cast, because I don't think you do green eyes right here. You're not. I do.

[12:10] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Did you or you happen to be green eyes right by Andrew? Like I can imagine somebody might jump in front of him. And like somebody get that opportunity and everyone just.

[12:21] Hannah Kenna Thomas: And probably it wasn't me, though, this time. But I am sure he was pretty near to the front. I can't. Can you imagine if you're roaming around and you're coming from the front to the back or back to the front? And all of a sudden you turn, you start to scare somebody and it's Andrew Lloyd Webber. Can you imagine?

[12:37] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it wouldn't be fun, would it?

[12:41] Hannah Kenna Thomas: What would your reaction been if it was you?

[12:44] Mike Abrams: I would probably be shocked if I didn't know he was there.

[12:47] Hannah Kenna Thomas: It would be I would be very shocked.

[12:51] Mike Abrams: But since you were told he was there, was everyone like kind of looking around being like, don't jump out at him? Like how cognizant?

[12:56] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah, of course. People are aware, you know, people, you know, are vigilant towards it. You know, everyone everyone's on high alert. You know, he's in the audience.

[13:09] Mike Abrams: So that's awesome. Now. So you do get picked to go to the West End revival and now you get to do the show where it started. What was that production like?

[13:17] Hannah Kenna Thomas: It was incredible. It was it was so it was such a magical slash crazy time because, you know, we were the first West End revival since it left London when it was originally there. And we knew what a big deal it was. And we were so excited. There were some big changes to the show. I'm sure, you know, with the Tugger and the Gumby, they changed. And we had Nicole Scherzinger as the leading lady. So it was all very exciting.

[13:52] Mike Abrams: This was the street Tugger, right?

[13:54] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah. The rapping Tugger. The rapping Tugger. Indeed.

[13:58] Mike Abrams: The infamous rapping Tugger.

[14:00] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah, you know, very controversial.

[14:03] Mike Abrams: Yes, very.

[14:05] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So, you know, when we were in the rehearsal process, we had no idea, you know, what was what was going to happen. You know, we were just going along with it, seeing it unfold. So, yeah, it was very exciting. It was a very exciting time and we knew it was special. We knew it was going to be a special time.

[14:24] Mike Abrams: So when you're in that production, I know there's obviously the tweaks. It was the first time coming back. What was the buzz like in the theater world, in the West End of this show?

[14:36] Hannah Kenna Thomas: You know, it was returning. It was amazing. We did like a press launch before. So it was a few months before we got there. And we were in Newcastle performing at the time. And we come down on the train early in the morning.

[14:54] Hannah Kenna Thomas: This is real, like, this is crazy. That production is such an interesting one because it had, it seemed like it had highs and lows of like, looking back on it, not probably during, but when it's like, looked in the fandom history books of Cats and the world of Cats, it is the first time that it comes back to the West End. But with some of these tweaks that did not last or work. And then, you know, obviously with, even with Nicole Scherzinger, there was some post-2016 stuff with her that also didn't go well. So it's like, it's a really interesting one to look at now versus then.

[15:49] Mike Abrams: For sure.

[15:50] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah. This is true. And it's always that way, isn't it? You know, you can't please everyone in this world.

[15:54] Mike Abrams: For sure.

[15:55] Hannah Kenna Thomas: And that's what the show is. That's what it's really about is this show is so wide-reaching for such a long time with tweaks. And I, you know, I've joked, but there's, it's not joking. There are parts to the show that happened in other productions. I'm just like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

[16:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[16:09] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Because they, you know, I knew about Street Tugger because the rapping Tugger was, was very, and it's also fascinating because I think that's such an interesting character to change.

[16:16] Mike Abrams: For sure.

[16:17] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah. But there's so many other little things of like, we're going to have this character and it's going to, this ensemble character is going to be named something else in this country. And it's a little, it's a little wild because it's been around for so long and there isn't a plot. There's no, there's like a, such a loose through line that everyone has to fill in the blanks.

[16:31] Mike Abrams: For sure.

[16:32] Hannah Kenna Thomas: The audience for sure have seen, I mean, we know the plot and there is, you know, when you hear the plot from the director, it's, it's crazy.

[16:39] Mike Abrams: It's crazy.

[16:40] Hannah Kenna Thomas: But obviously as an audience member, you don't know that. So you know, it's, you do have to fill in the gaps, I guess.

[16:46] Mike Abrams: Fill in the gaps for us.

[16:47] Hannah Kenna Thomas: And I, you know, we'll get to Vienna next, but you, you brought it up and I want to hear, I know that you get a day or two usually of like, here's the story and the backstories. What, what doesn't the audience know? Like, what can you share with us that, that people should know when they go see it, whenever it comes back next? Cause it will come back.

[17:06] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Well, I always think it's like the cats in the show are really relatable to humans, like really relatable. And then you can, as you know, you will know people who, who can relate with certain cats and go through certain things. And it's like life really. It's like, for example, the Grizabella story, you know, as the main one, she was, you know, this is an obvious one, but I mean, you can tell this from the show, you know, back in the day, she was the glamour cat, you know, everyone wanted to put you around her. However, she obviously falls on hard times. She gets with the wrong guy. You know, everyone can relate to that. She gets with the wrong guy. She starts doing things she shouldn't do. And then, you know, and it's just the intricacy of how it's told and, you know, it's hard for me to explain it here because it's, there is a lot, but for me, it's, it's relating it all to real life.

And then you sit there and you think, Oh my God, yeah, that, that happens to humans. That happens to us, you know? And then, obviously she gets with Macavity, he's probably, you know, the bad boy, he shouldn't get, he gets you into drugs, he gets you into like, all the crazy shit you shouldn't do. And from then, you know how it is in society, you know, if you, for example, like if, um, how like say prostitutes are looked at in society, but you know, people are very much, Oh no, no. And that's just the story with Grizabella kind of, it's kind of like, Oh no, darling, you don't want, you know, but to see, to hear all this detail and relate it to our life. For me, it's like, I get it now, you know, otherwise it's just a cat coming on stage who looks a bit haggard and no one likes her.

So that's what the audience see, but when you hear the backstories, like we hear, it's so fascinating. And obviously it's every cat, every cat has got their, their thing and their story, but it's such a shame because the audience, unless you are a, you know, like, like a good fan and you're a fan of the show, you can research this stuff, but the average audience would never know.

[20:04] Mike Abrams: Well, so not only will the average audience I know, I mean, cause I was less than the average audience when I went the first time. I knew nothing. I just knew I was, I mean, again, I was told look at the set cause I heard the set was really intricate. I was told that, you know, you're going to know memory and probably not recognize any other songs. And that was mostly, it's just great dancing. That was what I was basically warned about and nothing else. And I tried to piece, like, I like sitcoms and I like, like nice and tidy stories and I didn't get one. And now that I've kind of broke through and done my research and because of this show, I have learned way more than I ever thought I would need to about this show.

But even as I've talked to other cast members and I've read the theories and rumors online, there's not a consistent answer for most of these cats. There's like somebody plays these as brother, sister, somebody plays this as mom, dad, somebody plays this as like uncle and, or I'm not part of this. And they're not always the same tour to tour, show to show, person to person. And I think that that's a really interesting part of this show is that there isn't a like if you play X character, and again, I'm not the right person to just bring any random Broadway reference in as someone who knows so little about it. But I, you know, most theater productions, it's like this character is this backstory should be played this way with your little like personal tweaks on it, but it's generally going to be played this way. And that's not the case with Cats. And I find that fascinating.

[22:04] Hannah Kenna Thomas: That is, I think, why the show does so well, because the director of it, she, she's very good at, you know, telling you the story, you know, telling you little bits, for example, Mungo Jerry and Rumpleteazer, you know, yeah, some people can play them as brother, sister, other can play them as a love interest. But, you know, she'll give you a few tips, a few pieces of advice, you know, for example, Rumpleteazer, she adores Mungo Jerry, you know, in whatever way you take that. And I think this is how the show stays so alive, because people can do their take on it, they can relate to it in their way. And that way, it's more real, you know, for sure.

[22:35] Mike Abrams: And there's so many characters that are relatable, like you said, somebody you'll relate to somebody's story.

[22:40] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah. And I think that I didn't pick up, like, you have to watch it many times, whether it's the VHS or go to figure out like, which character you relate most to, or just what even their stories are, because some of them are obvious, or more obvious, and some of them are not, you know, and it's like, I like the twins, I didn't know anything about the twins until probably a couple months ago.

[23:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[23:01] Hannah Kenna Thomas: It was just like, I didn't realize they exist, I didn't realize they had this crazy backstories and all those things. And I think like, you could probably stick me at that show 1000 times. And I would have never picked that up well, until I talked to somebody who's played it.

[23:12] Mike Abrams: Of course.

[23:13] Hannah Kenna Thomas: No, this is the thing. It's, it's wild how much backstories there are.

[23:17] Mike Abrams: So tell me now the Victoria backstory.

[23:20] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So Victoria, she's a young cat. So I always think she's, she's not the youngest. So she's not like Jemima, who is like the baby, who's a little bit older. So she's like, 13, 14. She's like coming into herself. And obviously, you know, the white cat solo, it's her discovering herself and sensualities for the first time. And I think her journey in the show is, is, is discovery. And obviously, because she, at the end is the one who goes over to Grizabella. You know, I think she's just gone back to base basics at that point. And it's just pure, it's innocence, you know, and it's, there's no bias, there's no, um, influence from society. It's just very pure and, but also, I see a journey in the character, you know, from discovering herself and finding new experiences throughout the show and, yeah.

[24:13] Mike Abrams: It's interesting, because it is a like, I've, as I've read more, that is the, excuse me, that's the backstory that you hear. And then you watch the first coming of age dance, and it does not look super innocent.

[24:23] Hannah Kenna Thomas: No, it is. This is the thing. Yeah. One of her three words is innocent. But I always find it somehow hard to play that, you know, because you have, there has to be some sensuality in it, you know.

[24:35] Mike Abrams: But maybe there's innocence in that.

[24:37] Hannah Kenna Thomas: There's innocence in discovering your body and how it works, maybe, I don't know.

[24:43] Mike Abrams: Absolutely. The first time I watched it, though, I'm like, these two dancers are, you know, and this is before I realized, I was told that the ball's an orgy.

[24:49] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah.

[24:50] Mike Abrams: I was like, these two, these two dancers, I was like, this is, this is very sexual and sensual. And, and it's like, again, not knowing anything about what I'm watching. I'm like, what's going on here? You know, like, what's this cat story? Because it doesn't, like, it just seemed a little different compared to like, and that's, again, part of the brilliance of the show.

[25:06] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah.

[25:07] Mike Abrams: So you said innocence. What are the other two of the three words?

[25:10] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Romantic, which could, you know, you can use that in the, her word, Macavity, not Macavity, Admetus.

[25:17] Mike Abrams: Macavity.

[25:18] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Why Macavity? No. So yeah, romantic and unselfconscious.

[25:24] Mike Abrams: Unselfconscious.

[25:25] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Okay. She doesn't care. It's not that she doesn't care, but she's not aware of, you know, judgment from people and how she, she's completely free in her body and, you know, and I think that's where her and Admetus, the little bit in the ball happens because she's just so unaware of people around her and it's just pure and, you know, that's how I see it.

[26:03] Mike Abrams: So I have two other rumor mill questions for you that I'm curious if you played it this way, thought about this way, was told this. So one is, is that you're either deaf or mute as Victoria. Was that ever told to you?

[26:14] Hannah Kenna Thomas: No.

[26:15] Mike Abrams: No.

[26:16] Hannah Kenna Thomas: The thing is like white cats usually are, aren't they? You know, like normally the actual animal, they, isn't that like a genetic thing?

[26:23] Mike Abrams: I don't know.

[26:24] Hannah Kenna Thomas: For as much as I know about Cats the Musical, I know very little about Cats the Animal.

[26:29] Mike Abrams: I'm the same, but I feel like I've heard that white cats have a genetic mutation, that they, they are like deaf or something. I could be completely wrong. I don't know what I'm saying here, but no.

[26:39] Hannah Kenna Thomas: That is a great, I like, I like that angle though better because I just assumed it's because your character doesn't sing and just dances their show and so they were like, oh yeah, so that's it. And it's cause they can't.

[26:50] Mike Abrams: The other one is, is that there's a rumor that Griz is actually your mother.

[26:54] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Oh, I've not heard this one before.

[26:56] Mike Abrams: I mean, and it's because I think you're this first one to reach out to her and her song. I mean, I've never, I've never even thought of that actually, but you know what, there's, you know what, I'm not going to say it's not a thing. I just, I think people can interpret the show however they want to because I feel like it could be possible.

[27:16] Hannah Kenna Thomas: It could be possible, you know?

[27:18] Mike Abrams: So that is not what was told in your backstory, but again, one of those, I'm just like, so what were you told about your relationship with Grizabella then?

[27:25] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Well, it's, it's probably the first time that Victoria ever sees Grizabella is that, you know, at this night when she comes and I think obviously there's curiosity and, um, you know, you just don't understand. She doesn't understand why all the other cats are, you know, shunning her away and pushing her away. I just think it's just pure innocence and obviously like, wow, what, what's going on? And like, what's wrong with everyone? You know, why is everyone acting this way? I, yeah, I, I, I think it's a first meeting and just a complete, like, just, you know, just don't understand what's going on, why everyone's acting this way.

[28:56] Mike Abrams: So it's not an abandoned child. It's a, uh, you know, you're meeting a, an old time celebrity for the first time that you didn't know about.

[29:03] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah. That's how I play it. I mean, but you know what, it's, it's very interesting to look at it that way. I've, I've actually never thought of it, but.

[29:48] Mike Abrams: In September of 2021. I'm going to date this because these will probably live well past us. And since you don't have as much singing, I've been fascinated about learning the show in another language, because it's in German, right? How does that change stuff, especially as a dancer? Are your cues on music? Are they on singing? Because it is, again, it's a different language. That's crazy to me.

[30:15] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah, well, the thing is, it's really just the same. Of course, like, the words change. And of course, there is certain, but in my head, I will still be going, if we're trying to find out a piece of the music, I will be like, oh, say it in English. How your brain still runs in English, but can say it in German. If that makes sense.

[30:39] Mike Abrams: Okay, so you are, you're able to...

[30:42] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So to recall the show, I would be like, I would say, I would be like, oh, it's this part, and then say in English. And then obviously, people who haven't done it in English will be like, oh, but they will still know it as well. I don't know. I don't know how it is. And the German obviously, it wasn't as hard as I thought. Because when you say it to music, it helps. The naming of cats was probably the hardest to learn because it's a poem. You know, there's no, with the movement and with the music, it's like a pattern in your brains, you know, the language becomes. It's crazy how it's not a thing. Sometimes I forget that it's in German. I'll be doing the show and I forget that I'm speaking German, you know?

[31:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I definitely feel that. The stuff I learned as a kid in song stuck with me more than anything else I was taught. So I definitely get it. But having done, like, it just, it does amaze me. And this is, again, your profession. So this is where, you know, this is a skill that you have to do that most, the majority of the world does not have this skill, which is why you're doing it and we're watching. But to go from years of doing it in English to then an entirely different language, even though it's the same, it feels like it's almost harder, but I guess it's not because it's in music.

[32:05] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah, no, I thought this at the beginning too. But it's crazy how your brain, it just doesn't, you don't even think about it. But I, obviously learning it, even learning it wasn't as hard as I thought. Yeah, you have to, but I feel like it's the same as if I didn't know in English, if that makes any sense. So basically, in a nutshell, it just wasn't as, you know, I pictured myself coming home and like, you know, like learning it and that's not how I learned it. Like I hate revising, I hate studying anything like that. So for me, it was just a case of going in, getting the brain pattern, getting the, you know, the automatic thing going and once it's in there, it's in there, you know, and then it's, it's hard to, it wouldn't be hard to do the, for example, I'm going to say it like this.

So if I was, if you would say to me, can you sing the opening for me now? I would say in German, I'd say, no, I don't know it. However, if today I was in costume on the stage with the music, I would be able to do it because it's in my brain there. If that makes any sense.

[33:22] Mike Abrams: I think it does. It's in the moment. It's like, um, yeah, it's like a, it's a recall. Like if the right, like it takes the right sensory to have it. I feel like there's definitely some studies behind that where things like happen more second nature.

[33:38] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah. And then the thing is, if you have a moment, it's the same with the choreography, you have moments from the time when you go, oh my God, I don't know what I'm saying. Or I don't know what I'm doing. You just have to just not think because you will do it. And if you think about it, you'll get it wrong. That's probably why you, like you said in the beginning, it's so much harder when your family or Andrew Lloyd Webber is there. Cause you're thinking about exactly every step of the way versus something you're doing. Yeah. Eight times a week, you know, or like all the time. Yeah. It's better to do it when you're so tired. The shows for me when I'm so tired, better shows. Cause you're like, you just get on with it and you let your body take over.

[34:18] Mike Abrams: Well, I hope I didn't over make you overthink Grizabella being your mom.

[34:24] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Oh gosh, no, no acting things. I love, I love them.

[34:29] Mike Abrams: Great. Okay. Let's do a couple of rapid fire questions before we get into the, you know, the million dollar question. Um, so if you could play anybody else, I know obviously Victoria was your number one growing up and everything, but just, if you could just be any cat, forget male, female, vocal range, dance ability, anything, which one would you want to do for a day?

[34:43] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Fun ballerina for sure. Yeah. This is such a fun song. That's a very common answer. I love it. She's so sexy and I'd love to play. I'd love to play her for a day.

[34:58] Mike Abrams: That's awesome. What about your favorite and least favorite cat?

[35:02] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So favorite, I have to say Victoria though. I'm sorry.

[35:06] Mike Abrams: Okay. Let me eliminate Victoria. I think that's your, you know, that makes sense.

[35:12] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So I would say fun ballerina, my favorite, my least favorite. Hmm. What is this? I feel mean. I'm trying to think least favorite. Take the people out of it. Just the cat.

[35:25] Mike Abrams: Just sounds awful.

[35:30] Hannah Kenna Thomas: No one's probably said this before, but I'm going to have to say Skimbleshanks.

[35:35] Mike Abrams: Skimbleshanks. Okay. Now you got to tell me why.

[35:41] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Because I feel like as a cat taking people out of it, it would just annoy me. I feel like he's a lot.

[35:48] Mike Abrams: It's interesting you say that because he's a very, it's a lot of people love him, including cast members, but I got almost yelled at by the Broadway Skimbleshanks because the episode I recorded where I kind of analyzed him, I call him the creepy uncle. I kind of got like a creepy uncle vibe and everyone that's played is like, no, I'm the cool uncle. Like everyone loves me. And so it is kind of interesting to hear that you wouldn't like that character. Cause I got a different vibe than now. I'm like, I've turned a corner with them. Cause I've talked to enough Skimbleshanks to be like, all right, you seem really fun and really cool. I didn't get that vibe the first time I saw it, but mostly it was because I was so like, I was overwhelmed the first time I saw everything that nothing sat, like nothing really registered.

And so as I rewatched things, that's where I was like, oh, it looks like he's taking his pants off. It looks like he's like, there's some things in there. I'm like, this just seems a little, little unique. And then I also got blinded by the light from the train. And I was like, when I saw it, it like hit me, like, you know, they pointed to the crowd where it hit me. And, and I still, I'm still, uh, I'm still mad at them for that. So yeah, that's, I get it.

[37:03] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So what about favorite song?

[37:06] Hannah Kenna Thomas: It's probably, um, a really light moonlight. Pardon me.

[37:11] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[37:12] Hannah Kenna Thomas: The one that Jemima sings and then we sing it in the second act. I think that's really special. I like that one.

[37:18] Mike Abrams: Okay. I thought you were going to say Macavity with all the bomb out of your hand.

[37:21] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah, no, that one's cool. But I feel like the moonlight's got a special.

[37:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Now here's my different question. I always try to kind of, I like one kind of unique one. And I think, I don't know if, uh, I read a fun fact about you that you danced in the 2012 Olympic clothing closing ceremony. And so my question to you is, is if Victoria was an Olympian, what would she be, uh, what sport would she be playing?

[37:45] Hannah Kenna Thomas: She would definitely be a rhythmic gymnast.

[37:52] Mike Abrams: That is, I have that. I'm looking at my notes. That is exactly what I wrote down as well.

[37:57] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yeah.

[37:58] Mike Abrams: Is that was the best answer.

[38:01] Hannah Kenna Thomas: The ball up with the leg.

[38:03] Mike Abrams: Exactly. Exactly. Um, what about if it was winter? I know this was summer, but what if it was a winter Olympics?

[38:09] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Winter Olympics. I'm not really familiar. Um, I actually don't, the only thing that I, I know of is the tobogganing, but I don't think that's something she'd be doing. I don't, I don't think, I don't see Victoria has, cause she's so tiny. I can't imagine she's going to be really good at, at bobsled or skeleton. I think it's figure skating.

[38:31] Mike Abrams: Figure skating. I would love to be a figure skater. That's so cool.

[38:37] Hannah Kenna Thomas: That's a, that is a growing up playing hockey. The figure skaters are always on the other ice while we practice. And so it is a skill. It is a very difficult skill.

[38:48] Hannah Kenna Thomas: I know. I know. I just think it looks incredible.

[38:52] Mike Abrams: So million dollar question. I have argued that your soon to be mother, Grizabella was not the right Jellicle choice to die at the ball. Do you think Grizabella is worthy of being the cat to die? Or would you choose somebody else? And I'd love to hear either argument. Why?

[39:14] Hannah Kenna Thomas: You know what? I think she's worthy. I think she's worthy of it.

[39:18] Mike Abrams: What's your defense for Grizabella?

[39:20] Hannah Kenna Thomas: I just feel like the other cats, although some, you know, for example, Gus, you know, he's obviously on his way to the heavy side there and he's had a very lovely life. And, but I feel like none of them at the point of despair, like she is, you know, they can all hold it together for another year to go to another Jellicle ball. You know, they're mentally a little bit stronger. They're a little bit more resilient than she is. And I just, I feel at this point in the poor woman's life, she needs to catch a break.

[40:00] Mike Abrams: So the argument you're making is, and this is my favorite part is to just kind of make sure I'm getting this right. The argument you're making is, is that no one else, everyone else can live to next year's ball. So we're going to reward the one that's, that is not going to make it.

[40:16] Hannah Kenna Thomas: And I feel like she's in a lot more pain than everyone else.

[40:20] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[40:21] Hannah Kenna Thomas: That's how I feel. So I'm like, we need to put her out of this misery.

[40:25] Mike Abrams: So you're going to reward her poor life decisions.

[40:29] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Hey, we all make mistakes. And this is, this is the big lesson of cats, you know, it's acceptance.

[40:33] Mike Abrams: And it's the redemption story.

[40:37] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Yes, exactly.

[40:39] Mike Abrams: So you're going to be comfortable killing your mother. Well, I guess, we'll do around me killing your mother.

[40:44] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Well, you know what, if it puts it out of her misery and she's going to a better place, then I suppose it's the best you can do.

[40:52] Mike Abrams: Then yes. Okay. I, so I would be the part that I had always argued. I can't make an argument for in your West End production because I didn't get to see Street Tugger. Yeah. And I've, it's very hard to find any version of that anywhere. Like I've been looking to see if I could find like a bootleg or some, some way to see like, what was this number like? Because I'd always argued that Tugger and Mistoffelees together should go because it's a super, so that's my argument.

[41:29] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So repeat that. I think it cuts out. Tugger and Mistoffelees should.

[41:34] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Should go together.

[41:35] Hannah Kenna Thomas: To the heavy side there.

[41:36] Mike Abrams: Yes. They should be put together. I watched this as a singing competition of what was the most entertaining. I watched Leona Lewis and I thought X Factor and I thought they usually pair groups together from individuals. So I'm going to take the two that I found the most impressive and entertaining. And that was those, the two of them, but I'm not sure from what I've read about Street Tugger, I'm not sure I would have gotten that same, same thing. So I wonder if I would have been more team Gus or Grizabella and this whole thing wouldn't exist if I saw your West End production first.

[42:15] Hannah Kenna Thomas: I think he still would have gone for it, you know, with their number in the second act, it was, it was, it was the same, you know, they had the same little duo going, but I know what you mean. You can't really judge because you never saw it, but I get that. I've never looked at it like that, but.

[42:31] Mike Abrams: I don't think anybody's looked at it like that. And I think that's why I'm here is to try to slowly get people to look at this show from a lot of different angles that they probably have never explored it from.

[42:42] Hannah Kenna Thomas: I've definitely heard the X Factor thing before. Definitely. You know, all competing, you know, showing off their number.

[42:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And that's, I mean, I, that is the, I think that fits, I don't think that was the intention, but I think that there is a loose, I've heard some explanations of like, yes, you're all giving your, your case for why you should go. And so that is a singing competition, pick, pick anyone you want. And there's a reward at the end, which also fits, but.

[43:11] Hannah Kenna Thomas: It's a very loose tie through it, but that's the part of the show is this whole thing is a loose tie through. There's no, there is no real interpretation is start to finish.

[43:22] Mike Abrams: So how can we stay in touch with you on social media and in general? So that way, when you are, if anybody's in Vienna, they can go see you too.

[43:28] Hannah Kenna Thomas: So my Instagram handle is just Hannah Kenna. Um, H H H K E N N a. We easy. Um, and yeah, you can just hit me up, you know, asking some questions if you're in Vienna or, you know, I'm here.

[43:50] Mike Abrams: You want to see it in German and now get to see I'm ready. I, I'm, I want to hear how you, when you play it as Grizabella is your mom, how that goes for you.

[43:58] Hannah Kenna Thomas: I will let you know. I will let you know.

[44:02] Mike Abrams: Well, thank you so much for coming on and telling these great stories and talking about Street Tugger and everything else that I've always wondered about. So it's been a pleasure having you on.

[44:12] Hannah Kenna Thomas: Pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure for me. I've really enjoyed it.

[44:18] Mike Abrams: And thanks for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died. The podcast breakdown, the catastrophe to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts, follow us on Twitter and Instagram at The Wrong Cat Died and check out our website, thewrongcatdied.com.