This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat satiety. I'm your host, Mike Abrams. And today we have a little bit of a different guest today.

[0:25] Mike Abrams: To my knowledge, he's never been on Broadway. And I don't think he's ever been in a production of Cats. However, he's an incredible DJ who you can frequently see at Tavern on Camac in Philadelphia, or on one of the many live DJ rides on your Peloton. He also happens to be a big fan of Cats, which is why we are here today. So welcome DJ John Michael. Thank you for joining me.

[0:46] John Michael Di Spirito: What's up? How you doing?

[0:48] Mike Abrams: I am excited to talk to you. I know, you know, we kind of talked a little before, and I did kind of give you my, I'm not happy that there's only one Peloton ride with Cats. But let's not start with that. I want to talk about your history with the show, because I know you're a fan. I kind of realized that you're a fan just based off of some of the mutual people we follow on social media. But tell me about your history with the show, your first experience with the show.

[1:03] John Michael Di Spirito: So I feel like if you lived in New York City, there were two commercials, at least for Broadway that you would see all the time. One was for Cats, and there were several versions of it, but one was definitely for Cats. And one was for the Milford Plaza, which had like the lullaby of Broadway song in it. And it was like a whole big thing. And I've actually posted about this on Instagram before. But I felt like that was always on television. And I think that's where I first encountered it. And was just like, I was a kid, though. I had to have been at least 10 years old. I would say I didn't really go full force into Cats until I was probably 13 or 14 when I'd seen it for the first time.

[1:51] Mike Abrams: Okay, so this was probably 90s, right?

[1:54] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, this is like 90s.

[1:56] Mike Abrams: When the commercial was out.

[1:58] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, I want to say that I probably saw it for the first time in '93 or '94.

[2:03] Mike Abrams: Okay, so your first experience was original Broadway production.

[2:07] John Michael Di Spirito: Yes.

[2:08] Mike Abrams: Wow. Lucky you.

[2:10] John Michael Di Spirito: Crazy. And it got to a point where we would go, and this is terrible that I'm even going to say this on a podcast and actually put it down somewhere. But we didn't have money because I was young. I was barely in high school, if anything, as I got a little bit older. And we used to sneak in in the second act during any intermission and would just stand because they used to sell standing room tickets along the back of the orchestra. And we would sneak in during the intermission and would just stand there in the back and hope that nobody noticed us. And so we would just second act the show all the time.

[2:44] Mike Abrams: So it was your first time only seeing the second act?

[2:47] John Michael Di Spirito: No, no, no. I had seen the full show. But then when I wanted to go back, I couldn't afford as such a young kid living in Staten Island. Broadway shows are, I mean, they've done a lot to become more affordable and give people the opportunity to go see it. But generally, they're not the cheapest tickets.

[3:05] Mike Abrams: And so, okay, so your first time, you're a teenager. How much of the show did you pick up? Because I've been having this conversation recently with a lot of people that I've always thought kids shouldn't go. But now I'm kind of changing my mind that maybe kids can go because it all goes over their heads. Adults realize how dark it is. But the teenagers kind of interesting makes it where you're probably old enough to get some of the themes, but maybe not old enough to really realize that it's coming out in this musical.

[3:31] John Michael Di Spirito: Well, yes, definitely. Well, I mean, if you watch that commercial, it was definitely marketed as like the family musical. It was marketed for kids 100 percent because they would always show, you know, I'm holding the kids in the commercial. And it was just very sort of like geared up that way.

[3:46] Mike Abrams: Yes. Hold on. Hold on. The one thing that has been a constant from every person that has been in the show that has told me is like, okay, the one source of truth we know of, we can debate family trees and all this other stuff. But Demeter was being sexually abused. That's the one thing that all are.

[4:01] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, I mean, that's just known fact.

[4:03] Mike Abrams: And so it's like that's the part I really struggle with, is that I watched it from this lens of the storytelling. I'm like, this is kind of a dark show. I got children to my right and left, like watching this. And then I was okay, it's going over their head. But it's not. I mean, it's so dark in a lot of places. And the ball is an orgy.

[4:21] John Michael Di Spirito: Well, and yes, and it's going over a lot of their heads too because, I mean, you know, if you think of that, you know, these are the original T.S. Eliot poems. A lot of them don't really relate to one another in the show. They're just, it's sort of like Andrew Lloyd Webber found a way to sort of Rodgers and Hammerstein this whole thing where it's like, you know, Rodgers and Hammerstein in the old musicals, you know, they would have these beautiful, beautiful songs, but they didn't take you anywhere in the show. So like the song would start, you know, you'd have some enchanted evening would happen. And then at the end of that song, you were still in the exact same place as when you started the song. Lloyd Webber kind of found a way to make this sort of odd through line throughout the whole thing.

[5:01] Mike Abrams: So, yeah, through line is that's generous, very generous.

[5:05] John Michael Di Spirito: I do. I do love that. Like one of the things I found researching the show was, is that the Grizabella's poem didn't make the book because it was too dark for children.

[5:14] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. So we're basing an entire children's potential musical on a poem that was too dark for children. But thanks to the brilliance of Gillian Lynn, she was able to make it a complete fantasy. And I think that is what drew me more than anything else because, I mean, at that point in my life, there's a lot of things at play. I mean, I'm not yet out of the closet. So this was sort of that first foray into being around people that I could identify as being like me. And also, I was really, really big into dance from 13 to 16. I took ballet for three years and I was, yes, in a very local, very regional production of Cats on Staten Island.

[5:56] Mike Abrams: Whoa, wait a second. That's a plot twist. Okay, hold on. Who did you play?

[6:02] John Michael Di Spirito: I was one of the only men that could sing, really. So they kind of used me throughout, but like I was some sort of weird rum-tum-tugger-monkey-strap hybrid.

[6:13] Mike Abrams: So you had all the singing roles, basically.

[6:16] John Michael Di Spirito: Basically. So I was like singing the old Gumby Cat, but I was also the rum-tum-tugger and just like running around for crazy quick change and like throwing different tails on different wigs. And yeah.

[6:25] Mike Abrams: Wow. So regional production, when was this? In the 90s?

[6:28] John Michael Di Spirito: This is probably like '96 or '97.

[6:32] Mike Abrams: And how old were you when this was happening?

[6:34] John Michael Di Spirito: 16, 17.

[6:35] Mike Abrams: Okay, so 16, 17. So you're a tugger, which is an interesting one because you get like very sexual, kind of get to throw your crotch around everyone. It's a little interesting for a 16-year-old to be doing for production in front of friends and family, I'm sure.

[6:53] John Michael Di Spirito: Yes, 100 percent. You know, again, again, I don't I feel like part of this is that like when I look back at it now through like 20, 22 eyes, it all seems so bizarre and so completely off the wall. But back then it was just like, I'm going to throw this makeup on my face. I'm going to put a leotard on. I'm just going to sing these songs that I really like. You know, it wasn't really there was no that that connection didn't exist for me. I do think your entry point to the musical is a really important part to how you view the musical because your entry point was, as you said, a point in your life where you were not out a point where you're probably, you know, you're younger. So some of the stuff is going to go right over your head and not realize how, you know, some of those themes.

For me, I watched it. First, I walked in with absolutely no idea what I was seeing besides that it was going to be cats dancing and I knew memory. And that was it. Yeah, I knew nothing else about the show when I walked in and I love sitcoms. I love like neat and tidy writing, and I got none of that. So I started to piece together some of those things more so than that. I'm like this Victoria dance, which is the coming of age. I was like, it looks like they're kind of doing it on stage. And the brilliance of Gillian Lynn.

[8:06] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, I mean, and so it's just so interesting of like the people who see it as a very young kid have a different perspective than someone seeing it like me at that point in my frame of two. Like I just moved to New York. I had not been to that much on Broadway at the time. I'd been to a little bit and I got a very unique experience.

[8:25] Mike Abrams: Well, and I think it's funny too, because there's this trend on TikTok that I see people doing where they talk about, you know, songs that we listened to in the 90s that we didn't really know what they were singing about until now. And they always use like Mariah Carey's Honey. And I'm like, that's a really like overtly sexual song, just full of innuendo. And people are now just sort of like looking back and being like, what were we singing along to? I feel like that's a sort of that same kind of thing.

[8:49] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, it definitely is. I think it didn't pretend to be anything else though. It's just like because of the way it is and it's so like you said, Gillian Lynn did a really good job of putting it together in a way that's so beautiful and masterful and a lot of other pieces that you can kind of forget some of that stuff. And that's the part that like when I walked out and, you know, everyone thought I hated it. I didn't hate it. When I walked out, I was I was mesmerized by like, I can't believe that the Mungo Jr. Ripple teaser dance like that was incredible. And then I learned years later in this podcast that they're doing it on a rake stage, which means it's on a slant. And so it's like all of a sudden it's just like, holy cow, these people are some of the most talented people you ever meet doing this incredibly physical show. And if you took out the bad writing through line, I would have been like, I'm here for it.

[9:38] John Michael Di Spirito: Well, and that's that's why I think I, you know, I spent so many years defending that show is like being one of my favorite shows. Now, when I say my favorite show, I mean, in a time before the Internet, I'm tracking down the Hungarian cast recording and the Japanese cast recording. And I'm finding as many imports as I can. There used to be a record store in Times Square called Colony Records that they would sell imports. And then there was another one in the East Village called Footlight Records, but they would also sell these imports from other places and trying to track them. Because what I learned was that each cast recording was a little bit different. The musicality were, you know, how it was orchestrated would be a little bit different.

Some would have more guitar, some would have more drums. Like and I was always so interested in how these things would get translated from cast to cast. So I was like really like in it and seeing how they do. And it's funny because actually in one of I think it might have been Claire's interview that I listened to where she was told you were talking about the Cat Cassandra.

[10:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[10:38] John Michael Di Spirito: And I heard you talking about her, which was so funny. And I was like, oh, I know exactly who that is. She's like the Siamese type of cat. And the thing that's funny and what I love about Lloyd Webber is that when you listen to Jellicle Songs for Jellicle Cats, there's a part in there with the whole thing about something with the Sphinx. And there's like a little like bassoon in the background that's like and does this like sort of like Middle Eastern type of sound in the show. That's a part where like Cassandra also comes out and does like a little thing. So like there are things in the music that sort of allude to who they are and where they came from. And I feel like that's one of the things that I always liked about Lloyd Webber was that there are those little things if you listen to them.

[11:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[11:18] John Michael Di Spirito: That give you clues.

[11:20] Mike Abrams: I love hearing you talk about this because it is another piece I find so fascinating with the show is the perspective that you come through. So I'm not a dancer and I'm not a musician. You being a DJ and a musician, you hear that and you know that right away. And for me, you know, my mom's a piano teacher. So I was like, oh, I kind of do the memory piano. That's what the tuner used all the time to tune the piano. But I knew I went from the writing angle. And so you said, hey, there's the different nuances of the song. That sounds like a rough angle. Yeah, I picked the wrong one because the dancers really appreciated everything they saw. The set designers talked about how great it is. The musicians talk about the way it was pieced together.

But the writer here has to deal with the really crappy through line. But you're talking about the other productions thing. I noticed that they named cats differently in the other productions. So some of them have been named and, you know, like Vienna is in German. So that's when I'm like, I kind of want to hear that just to hear.

[12:13] John Michael Di Spirito: I have it. I can send it to you.

[12:15] Mike Abrams: I love it. It's a very different language. Singing very beautiful songs in some cases in a harsher language. But there's a Japanese cat that's named Gilbert. Gilbert's not in any other production. 2016, there was a Peter. Peter's not in any other one of these productions. So it's like they renamed cats too in the different productions. So even as the writer, I'm going like they're writing the slight nuances, difference into these stories based on geographically where they're doing it.

[12:36] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, and it's weird because like the Japanese, and I don't know if this is with all the cast recordings, but I found this for Phantom too because I was like a sick Lloyd Webber fan for so long, is that they would do like the studio cast recording. And then sometime later they would do like a live recording that they would record at the theater and then put that version out too. So there's actually two Japanese ones of cats, one live in one studio.

[13:04] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[13:05] John Michael Di Spirito: There is nowhere else on earth that I have ever been able to expel this information.

[13:09] Mike Abrams: This is the vehicle I'm here for is to allow people like you, fans like you to come out and talk about this, this inner sanctum of this knowledge you have. So, so, so you said earlier though, you mentioned, you saw it as a teenager and then you saw the second act, a bunch of a whole bunch. And I actually, allegedly, allegedly, and I actually auditioned for the touring cast twice.

[13:35] John Michael Di Spirito: Okay.

[13:36] Mike Abrams: So, so you're, you start by seeing it, then you do it in Staten Island and you kind of, you get your way to the second act a couple of times and standing room. How many times total have you seen it?

[13:46] John Michael Di Spirito: I mean, I'm not counting the movies and different things. Like it's probably about 14 or 15, 14 or 15 times, mostly on Broadway.

[13:55] Mike Abrams: Yes. Okay. Have you seen it anywhere else?

[13:59] John Michael Di Spirito: Um, which nobody saw that, believe me, nobody saw that. Barely my family saw that. I feel like I saw maybe a touring cast in Jersey once, but I don't, I think they were mostly all Broadway.

[14:14] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Because even when my husband and I have been together for eight years and we've seen it once or twice, and I think they were actually both on Broadway before it finally shut down.

[14:23] John Michael Di Spirito: Okay.

[14:24] Mike Abrams: So 14 times and you clearly have a fan. You also, how much does this come up? Like for me, it now becomes, it comes up a lot because of this, this podcast.

[14:33] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah.

[14:35] Mike Abrams: How much does Cats come up in your life?

[14:36] John Michael Di Spirito: Well, not as much as it used to. So I would say the years from like when I was 13 to like 17, so like '93 to '97, I was like heavy, heavy, heavy into it. And that's when, like I said, all like the geeky stuff of finding the different cast recordings and, you know, getting different playbills and like finding out, finding people and not even online, but like there was somebody that I was literally writing letters to in Binghamton, New York that would have these like bootlegs of the cast recordings of shows that would like copy cassettes and send them to me. It was like this black market behind the scenes of these like trading things way before the internet. So crazy. But yeah, I mean it, I don't know. It just, it, that was such a heavy time in my life where I was so into that. And now only my closest friends really sort of know until now, until now.

[15:33] Mike Abrams: So now your fandom is going to become public.

[15:34] John Michael Di Spirito: I know. And so now it's like, and that's why like for the last few days since we spoke, since we first got, since you contacted me, I was like replaying all of these things in my head. And I messaged one of my best friends from that time, my friend Chris. And I was like, Oh my God, I cannot believe this is happening. And I was like, how far deep do I go into this? I was like, because we used to have VHS tapes with literally anything that mentioned the musical. There was a TV show called Caroline in the City. Leah Thompson was the main star. Her roommate was in the show Cats in the show. And so we would record all of those because I was like, in case she's going to, and sometimes they would go to the Winter Garden Theater.

And then there was like the Fame episode where they had, you know, a whole thing from Cats in there and make sure that we see that. And I, anything that was involved in the show I was into, because again, for me, it was the dancing and the music. I didn't realize that there was even like a story, quote unquote, until many years later. And I was like, Oh, I definitely never got that, but okay.

[16:32] Mike Abrams: I love it. Have you kept up with that? There's more, there's a lot more references recently.

[16:36] John Michael Di Spirito: I mean, I have, I've only seen, like I saw the movie and I was very, I mean, I didn't know where we want to go into this. I didn't love it. There was a lot of things with the movie that I'm, I was very upset by, but then I heard Angela Webber talk about it and also like in a disparaging way. So I was like, I don't feel so bad.

[17:01] Mike Abrams: Yeah. He backtracked for a lot of people backtrack from the movie. So there's a couple, I'll, let's get to the new movie, but there's been a couple, not super recent, but Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt had a storyline, Family Guy.

[17:10] John Michael Di Spirito: Yes. I've seen that.

[17:12] Mike Abrams: Then Modern Family had a great, had a great episode where he gets Tucker gets stuck in the tree.

[17:18] John Michael Di Spirito: Yep. I actually just saw that the other day.

[17:21] Mike Abrams: And then I just saw one. Oh, it's, this is not, it's not a good one, but Team America really gets after it.

[17:28] John Michael Di Spirito: Oh yeah. With, with, with that one. So if you know that, you know what I'm talking about there, that's a whole different story.

[17:35] Mike Abrams: I just saw that the other day and I forgot about that. And then all of a sudden that line came out and I'm like, Oh yeah.

[17:40] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah.

[17:41] Mike Abrams: Okay. Let's talk about the new movie quickly. Cause I don't want to give too much time to it. Cause it was, it was a little bit of a disaster. My gripes with it are probably different than your gripes with it though.

[17:51] John Michael Di Spirito: I mean, I, I, it's like, it's anything else. Like even with any movie musical that comes out, I try to go into all of them being like, okay, look, this is for a different, this is for a newer audience. This is, you know, whoever's the creative team behind this is going to have their own interpretation of what this all is. But when I started seeing things like, okay, so we're not doing the Jillian Lynn choreography. That made me nervous. I was like, this is not a very easy show to translate musically. And even knowing her choreography as well as I do in my mind. Cause even when I, when we, when I went for the audition, the two auditions, they make you do the Jellicle ball. There's like a specific part of the choreography that they make you do.

I still know it in my, it's a sickness really. But I knew it before I went to the audition. So I was like, I'm definitely going to get it. I'm definitely gonna. And my best friend, Chris that came with me watched and also auditioned. And I got down to the second to last cut. And I was like, you have to be alive longer than me for the rest of my life because you're going to be the only person who can verify that piece of information while I'm alive.

[18:56] Mike Abrams: So, um, but yeah, I think that that was one of the biggest things that I was like, all right, we'll see, you know, and Andy is very talented.

[19:05] John Michael Di Spirito: This is Andy Blankenbuehler.

[19:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Super, super talented. But I think that sometimes, you know, the source material is a little bit difficult. He did well with Skimbleshanks, but even that is such a specific piece of Jillian's choreography that I'm like, all right, wow. I actually put more of the blame not on Andy Blankenbuehler. I think his choreography was probably fine, but you couldn't see it because they just jumped around so much.

[19:30] John Michael Di Spirito: Yes.

[19:31] Mike Abrams: So I think that that was part where I had trouble analyzing any of the dancing because I couldn't see what was happening. It was, it was very much filmed like a Britney Spears music video, you know, and it's just very like that cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. And I'm like, all right, we kind of want to see them, the scenes we would, that's part of the whole thing is that if you're not watching it for the dancing, like, and I appreciate them trying to make more of a story, but I'm like, McAvity speaking, what is going on?

[20:01] John Michael Di Spirito: Well, that's the question for a lot of them. They did try, like there is no dialogue in the musical. And so adding dialogue, I thought, I actually thought Victoria's the vehicle was a smart way to do it. I thought the McAvity was the attempt at conflict resolution. Yeah. It didn't really work.

[20:20] Mike Abrams: No. And I didn't need Taylor Swift song in there. I didn't mind as much as everyone else did, but I think it was more just because I love, I love the song McAvity and that kind of led into that. And so I was like, all right, we're getting to the part. I like also that was at the point where I realized how much was still left when I was seeing it. And I'm like, okay, like a lot of movie left here. And this has not gotten any better.

[20:43] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. Yeah. I think that they, the part that still blows my mind again, thinking about it from a, almost a business angle, they launched the trailer the same day as Top Gun. And which the Top Gun trailer, which I guess is probably maybe not the same audience, but like mega movie that still hasn't come out. But I mean, a trailer that was, that has a bigger budget than the amount they wasted on Cats. Came out same day. And then it launched on the weekend of a major, I think it was a Marvel movie. Some other big movie launched the exact same weekend. And so, and this was pre-pandemic. So this was like everyone going in 2019. I was like, this is kind of, there's some just choice decisions.

[21:22] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah.

[21:23] Mike Abrams: On top of the, like actually creative decisions in the movie. I feel like, and this is, this is part of the problem with movie musicals. Now is that I feel like they relied so heavily on star power that it almost, but I mean like, you know, you throw Taylor Swift in there and you throw, you know, all these other big names in this movie.

[21:43] John Michael Di Spirito: That's what I mean. Like there was a lot of big, Jennifer Hudson. And I'm like, Oh, you know, like as soon as they said Jennifer Hudson, I was like, well clearly she's going to slay memory. I was like, that's going to be great. But then like, even when I saw her makeup, I was like, Oh, I don't, Oh, I don't know. So it's like little pieces like that leading up to it. I went in there cautiously optimistic, but it's, I don't know. It was, it was, it was a lot of things that were a mess. And again, it's not the easiest thing to translate in many ways, but.

[22:15] John Michael Di Spirito: Judi Dench talking directly to me, the end, the movie was awesome. It sealed the deal. And then, uh, I, I, I saw a press, I saw a press viewing of it. So not like the major opening, but it was everyone that had to be invited by the studio or the media to get it. So this should be a crowd that is appropriate and handled. This isn't like, you know, Rocky Horror Picture. Like it should be a crowd and about 10 minutes and people started laughing. And that's what I knew. Like, if this crowd can't take this serious, you've got a problem with this.

[22:49] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. Yeah. I like within the first song, I immediately was just like, Oh, this is going to get panned really, really bad, especially by the Broadway community who I'm sure was not thrilled about this to even start off with.

[23:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It made for really great as, as someone who was trying to keep some parody into this podcast and like the humor from it, it was just endless material for me.

[23:10] John Michael Di Spirito: Well, and the thing that I didn't get either was that, you know, there are some people that, you know, are around today that could easily have done this and stepped in and done really well with this. And it was just very sort of like mind blowing where I'm like, okay, you've got the budget. You've got the money to throw it. Talent. The orchestrations were nice. Like it sounded good. I liked the way the music sounded in a lot of it, but I don't know. It was just very, very weird. But I also feel like Lloyd Webber walked into a trap with the Phantom of the Opera movie too. I didn't love it. I wanted to like it, but it's just the casting. I was like, no, you know, I don't want to be mean, but I didn't really need Gerard Butler as the Phantom. Like he's a name, he's a name.

[24:01] John Michael Di Spirito: And he's like, he's a name.

[24:02] Mike Abrams: And he's like, he's a name. And he's like, he's a name. And he's like, he's a name. And he's like, he's a name. Like, I don't want to be mean, but I wanted it to be the Phantom of the Opera. To me, the way he walked in and that, that was a, that was a, that was a sing.

[24:10] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. It was the lame his criticism too.

[24:12] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I mean. So I feel like that's, you know, one of the only ones that fared so well was, I thought Chicago and they had big names in there, but they had weird sizes of things where it's like, sometimes they're like normal size when I'm looking at like me or you. And then there's other times where like, things are absolutely enormous. And I'm like, I don't.

[24:30] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. It was so weird. There was, let's just say decisions were made. And now everybody who's been involved has backtracked. Just tell you all you need to know about it.

[24:39] Mike Abrams: Well, and even from the, the filmed version that they did at the musical and what was it? '98?

[24:43] John Michael Di Spirito: '98. Yeah.

[24:45] Mike Abrams: Like that. I was just like, you know, you've got Jacob Brent is in it and you've got a lot of the mainstays from the Broadway cast. I'm not going to lie. I was kind of mad that Betty Buckley wasn't in it. I love Elaine Page more than life itself. I really wanted Betty, but I get it. She was the first, but yeah, I don't, I don't. It's, it's a really hard thing to pull off, not in the theater.

[25:05] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. And the, I loved how they did the '98 movie because they did a little bit of extra for it, but nothing that was like, you know, just like some from a staff will use some extra flair, but nothing that's going to really change the, the show. Like it's, you've got the experience of the show.

[25:21] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Side note. Have you seen the YouTube performance of Mr. Mistoffelees? The really like bad one, the yes, the miss.

[25:28] John Michael Di Spirito: Yes. M I S S.

[25:30] Mike Abrams: I have, I got cued to it a couple months ago. I reached out to the theater. Stop to see if they, I, if they would even just tell me who like the cast was at the time. Cause it was years ago. I found the theater. I'm not gonna, I'm not going to blow them up.

[25:48] John Michael Di Spirito: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[25:49] Mike Abrams: But I found, I can send it to you after I found the leader. I found the production. There is no like playbill or anything on their website. And I sent a email asking about that production, nothing else cued to it just to see if I get a response and I have not heard back. So I would love, love to talk to the person. Cause I firmly believe that at this point they know they're viral.

[26:06] John Michael Di Spirito: Oh, they would have to, but I'm assuming they have to be good humored about it because they, there were two, that's one. There's a couple of people on my dream list to talk to for this. He's one, he's one of them really high up there because I think I I'm really hopeful that he's good humored about it. Because from what I heard, this backs, this is the rumor mill backstory. Is this, that that person was very heavily involved either with that theater. And so it was a very last second. We need somebody to hop on. Got it. He knows the choreography. He's not really talented enough to do it, but at least like it's probably better than nothing. Cause it's not, you know, a very small local theater.

Yeah. I don't have a swing that's going to hop in. You know, you don't have the same production. Absolutely. And so I hope that he gets it. I, my, my number two and I know who they are. And I have outreach, but I understand why they probably don't want to come on or answer me. I want to talk to the original street Tugger.

[27:12] John Michael Di Spirito: Oh, which was the London production where they made Tugger a rapper.

[27:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Very high up. I want to know how that was like, talk to them, what the thought was like, how they were explained this because it's, it's, it's one of those things where I'm sure the production, like I'm sure the person who did it did an amazing job. It was just such a bad decision by whoever made that decision. But even, and even his song, like the lyrics are strange, you know, when you really sit down and like go through them and it's like hearing how they've all sort of, you know, taking it on from Terrence man onward or whatever, but it's, yeah. There's so many things. That's my last one, but well, Hey, you never know.

[27:55] John Michael Di Spirito: Did you see, he's a DJ now too.

[28:00] Mike Abrams: I saw him. I saw him. The problem, if he comes on though, the podcast ends because he'll definitively answer my question about should die or not. And so I'm okay with that.

[28:11] John Michael Di Spirito: I, well, there's a couple others I would like to get, but, but the, the Mistoffelees Mistoffelees is, is high up there.

[28:18] Mike Abrams: Oh, and I've tried a lot to figure that out more than I, more than I wish to say I've devoted to this podcast. That would be such a great guess. I'm, I'm, I'm manifesting this for you. I have the right people. I just need them to answer me well. And then I also need to like find that person. Cause the other thing is, is it happened so long ago? It's like, you can generally find a lot of people on social media. I don't have the, you know what year that was. It was in the nineties, I think, or maybe the two thousands. I can look it back. I can look it up after I'll, I'll send you the website. We can, we can, we can find this later. Absolutely. You can see my investigative journalism happening behind the scenes to try to solve this.

But yes, that is a very good one. I've seen some other productions of people. I did see a COVID production where some people saying it together, which like that was one where they did the whole two plus hour show. And a couple of performers did a really good job, but you can't harmonize over zoom. So it was kind of destined to be challenging from the beginning. But it was pretty cool to see a group like of just fans really get together and put it together. So that I've seen some, uh, I did see the Elon university. I did, 30 Philippe, who was in Hamilton. I interviewed, he finally found his version where they did a Beyonce cat. And, I think they said they did a Trump cat and a couple other ones. So it was a university production for like a weekend.

[29:45] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. Yeah. So there's, there's some versions out there. You know, if you, I know you've got your Japanese, uh, uh, albums and stuff like that, but there's some deep cuts out there.

[29:56] Mike Abrams: Look, and it, I have so many different versions of this cast recording. And just to like, it was really just to hear the Jellicle ball. That was the thing that I've always been the most interested in on the soundtrack, because I found that piece of music specifically to be so interesting.

[30:07] John Michael Di Spirito: And is it very different?

[30:14] Mike Abrams: I suppose that seems like a fairly consistent piece of the show everywhere it goes.

[30:18] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm talking more just like for the orchestrations and like what, how they would translate it into their version. And like, but it's, it's like that with a lot of cast recording, or at least a lot of Lloyd Webber recordings. But where they always will just sort of change things up and try to keep it as, you know, current and new with the times as they can as technology evolves. But when that's your street tiger, that was the attempt there.

[30:40] Mike Abrams: Oh, without a doubt, without a doubt. So I want to switch gears a little bit and I want to know, has Cats influenced your DJing career at all? Like do you, do you mix it into sets at all?

[30:48] John Michael Di Spirito: Um, so there have been several dance versions of memory that have been successful over the years. There was a big one in the eighties by an act called Minaj. It was like a high, high energy record out of maybe France or Italy that a lot of the gay clubs used to play in like the eighties and nineties is total camp. I mean, as any Cats remix would be. I remember in the nineties there was this looking back really terrible, um, uh, act called Harajuku and they would, I don't actually think they were Japanese, but they would do all these like Broadway dance covers in, but everything sounded like a LaBouche song. So it was that nineties Euro sort of like whatever that stuff. And then recently I actually found a remix of Jennifer Hudson's version of memory that I have played out.

[31:41] Mike Abrams: Wow. Okay. I was wondering how much is out there. Cause some of the songs don't really lend to it. And some of them, I think you could, you could mix into an interesting like EDM style. Like Skimbleshanks would go really well. And if you really, if you remixed it.

[31:53] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. And I think it's, it's the, that's the other thing that I feel like kept my interest about Cats is that, you know, a lot of songs in Broadway shows are like songs. They're just like songs. It's like a very specific song structure. Whereas I feel most of the things in Cats are so maybe cause they're poems, whatever, they're all over the place. You know, they have like, they go so many different places within one song. You know, like McCavity is a good example of that, but it's, yeah, I don't know. Memory seems to be the most straightforward of the musical, which is why I'm sure people do it the most. It's because it's what people know.

[32:29] Mike Abrams: If you, yeah, for sure. A non, just a theater fan. Who's maybe seen it once they're going to remember memory and that's it.

[32:38] John Michael Di Spirito: The rest is like, you know, like I didn't know any of the rest coming in. And then when memory started, I'm like, Oh yeah, I know this one. So that makes sense. That makes sense.

[32:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I want to go like, I want to go into some of the cats and if you were DJing or if they were DJing to them, what type of music or what song specifically do you think would be like their jam? So this is going to go back to a little bit of the personality test here. So I can fill in blanks. If you need me, we won't do them all. Okay. Let's start with Tugger.

[33:02] John Michael Di Spirito: Tugger. I mean, I'm not going to lie. I feel like he's, he's either going to be like beast mode, hip hop or like rock. Like, but I feel like he listened. I don't want to say not Nickelback, but he listens to like, you know, my chemical romance or like that type of rock music, like emo rock. I feel like it's like panic at the disco type of thing.

[33:28] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. Like that type of thing. I feel like that's what, that's what it's got the studs on his shoulders and the whole thing.

[33:34] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it's very, that like eyeliner. I love it. What about, I'm going to put Bomb and Demeter together.

[33:41] Mike Abrams: Um, they're probably Megan, the fat Megan, the stallion stands.

[33:45] John Michael Di Spirito: Ooh, I like that. I had him. Yeah. But maybe I went back too far. Uh, I mean, I could see that, but I feel like you get any girl now and that's, you know, body, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. They're going to give you some of that.

[34:01] Mike Abrams: Love it. Um, this might be the same answer then. What about Victoria, the younger version of them?

[34:05] John Michael Di Spirito: No, she's an Ariana Grande fan.

[34:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. Now let's go older. What about Gus?

[34:11] John Michael Di Spirito: Gus only wants the pure. He's the purest. So he doesn't want a Madonna remix. He wants the actual Madonna song. He doesn't want the Cher remix. He wants the actual Cher song. You know, like it's, he's got respect for the voices. He wants to hear Whitney Houston and he wants to hear, you know, maybe a little bit of Barbara, even Frank Sinatra. He wants the vocals.

[34:29] Mike Abrams: Love. I love it. I was thinking even further back because I just have this vision of probably because the '98 movie is, uh, John Mills and he was like 90 when he did it. So I kept thinking about my grandpa being like, it's gotta be something even predating me. I'm like, like what's the fifties and sixties kind of old, old, you know, Mr. Sandman.

[34:51] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, exactly. Um, what about Skimbleshanks?

[34:54] John Michael Di Spirito: Skimbleshanks. Skimbleshanks. Hmm. I feel like I could see him like chilling at home to like Stevie Wonder.

[35:02] Mike Abrams: Ooh. Okay. He's a tough one because there's so many different ways you could look at that character.

[35:06] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah. I feel like he's kind of funky. Like he wants things that are more like upbeat clearly, but it's just, it's, everything's got like a groove to it and he's just so like, I don't know. I just see him like strutting around. Like, yeah, I can see that.

[35:21] Mike Abrams: Okay. I got two more. Um, we've got to do, uh, Mistoffelees.

[35:25] John Michael Di Spirito: Mistoffelees, huge EDM raver.

[35:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, clearly you have the light up jacket. You're throwing, you know, a special effects all over the place. You've definitely been to EDC a few times.

[35:37] John Michael Di Spirito: Yep. Yeah. And then the last one is Grizabella.

[35:41] John Michael Di Spirito: She probably listens to like Edith Piaf all day. Something very weepy and dramatic and just, you know, black and white movies, Norma Desmond, that sort of thing.

[35:51] Mike Abrams: I love it. Absolutely love it. She's not fun at parties. That one.

[35:54] John Michael Di Spirito: She might, she might've used to be fun at parties, but not anymore.

[35:58] Mike Abrams: So actually I want to ask you if the wrong cat died, then who do you think is the one that's supposed to go?

[36:03] John Michael Di Spirito: Oh, that's my, we're going to get to that.

[36:06] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay.

[36:08] John Michael Di Spirito: That's the last question. I'm going to say that this started answer. Got it. Cause I do think it's evolved, um, over time, which is sad that my, uh, I've spent so much time on this, the show that I have evolved my own thought process on it.

[36:21] Mike Abrams: Let's go into the rapid fire. Cause my last question will be that for you. And then I can happily answer it for you. If you were, well, you, you were in the show, but if you could be any, who did you audition for? Like, who would you, who'd you want to play most?

[36:36] John Michael Di Spirito: I just, when we auditioned, I think it would have been in the chorus. I mean, I always loved MonkaStrap. I think also because when I saw it on Broadway, I definitely had a crush on Keith Bernardo who played it at the time. I thought he was so handsome, but I just, he always sort of, when you see him and maybe it's just Keith's that I'm remembering. And I think he was the guy in the movie too. I think in the '98 version, I think it was Keith. Wasn't it? Or am I wrong on that?

[37:01] Mike Abrams: You're talking to the wrong person.

[37:02] John Michael Di Spirito: Sorry. I don't know. I'm not a hundred percent sure. It might be him, but he was sort of like great posture, you know, it was like sort of looking out for people, but always had like such a really good, like baritone voice and all the, the versions that I've heard in that fit my range. So I just loved his, so his songs, if I ignore that though, and you could just be ignore vocal range, gender, anything.

[37:27] Mike Abrams: Well, I like hearing the first one, but if you could do anyone who was there, like, who would you want to do one time?

[37:32] John Michael Di Spirito: Uh, rumble teaser teaser.

[37:34] Mike Abrams: Yeah, for sure.

[37:35] John Michael Di Spirito: I mean, I can't do them, but I think it would be the most fun because in the, when you, when you used to be able to go see the show on Broadway, and I don't know how long, if they did that to the end or not, but in the intermission, and they would let you come up on the stage with Deuteronomy.

[37:50] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[37:51] John Michael Di Spirito: And like, so he would just be up there chilling and you'd be able to like, sort of like walk around and everything. And it just, the stage is so like slippery and made for dancers that I'm like, just being in like a leotard and being able to do all of that. Mongo, Jerry rubble teaser choreography just looks so fun.

[38:05] Mike Abrams: I love it. When, when the old Deuteronomy stayed on, when I saw it the first time, I thought it was a mistake. I was like, is it, are we in intermission? Like the, like the, like the lights came on, but that guy's still up there. And at first I was like, is he there? And then everyone came up and took a selfie and, you know, like, or not everyone, a group, it was like assigned to go up there. And I've talked to a few old Deuteronomies and I've talked to a few non old Deuteronomies. Cause I kept thinking, why would you give up your intermission? And a lot of them are like the non old Deuteronomy was like, yeah, he's not on the whole time. I can't be. All right. And then the old Deuteronomies are like, it sucks. I got to do this. And then they immediately sing.

[39:45] John Michael Di Spirito: Oh, yeah. It's crazy to like sit there dry up there with everyone kind of just like pretending to be this like godlike feature. And then immediately sing a song. That's gotta be crazy to do. And it's a crazy song to sing too.

[39:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah. You know?

[40:00] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah.

[40:01] Mike Abrams: So much with the show. Um, who are your favorite, at least favorite cats?

[40:05] John Michael Di Spirito: Um, I would say probably MonkaStrap, Skimble. Um, I do like Victoria because I loved her dance solo in the original. Julian's choreography for that was really good. Um, I loved, uh, why am I drawing a blank? No, it's, but it's, uh, Bombay Arena. I don't remember which one. Who's the one that, that sings mostly Macavity? I think Bomb. Um, cause I remember Marlena Daniels played her on Broadway and was like the longest running. I think she was in it from like opening to closing or something crazy like that. She was like the longest.

[40:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah. She was like literally that role. It looked like it was just second skin for her. She was so fantastic at every time I'd have ever seen it that I was like, I would absolutely love to be you for a day.

[41:00] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah.

[41:01] Mike Abrams: So for sure. That's fine. Well, what about least favorite? Do you have a least favorite character?

[41:05] John Michael Di Spirito: Um, least favorite. It's hard. I don't really feel like anybody, this'll probably get me excommunicated, but, um, I never really got into Gus that much.

[41:20] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[41:21] John Michael Di Spirito: It was, but I know when it's terrible, I shouldn't say he's not my least favorite character because I like when he does the whole, uh, the throwback bit and he does the whole tail. What, which is again, I'm drawing. Thank you. Um, or no, no, no, it's the, uh, what's the name? Um, uh, growl tiger.

[41:45] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[41:46] John Michael Di Spirito: Thank you. That part I love, but the whole Gus, the theater cat song, I'm like, this is like the sleepy section and I never really got into it that much, but, and I've seen some really great people do it, but the growl tiger bit. Excellent. I live for that.

[41:57] Mike Abrams: You have a sponsor for a non Grisabel, which is Gus. That sounds like you're not going to be on that team here.

[42:01] John Michael Di Spirito: No.

[42:02] Mike Abrams: Um, what's your favorite song? Is that the, I think you mentioned the ball a bunch of times. Is that your favorite song from the show?

[42:06] John Michael Di Spirito: The, um, probably, uh, as a piece of music. Yes, but I've probably listened to the opening, the most Jellicle songs, Jellicle cats.

[42:19] Mike Abrams: Okay. Which cat do you think would make the best DJ?

[42:21] John Michael Di Spirito: Mistoffelees.

[42:22] Mike Abrams: Mistoffelees.

[42:23] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, for sure.

[42:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Not only just EDM me, but he also realized he's, he's, you know, he's putting on a show for people, which is sort of like what we do now. I feel like as DJs, it's just, everything is like a show. So I feel like he would have the best presence for that. And yeah, for sure. And which cat do you think would make the best Peloton instructor?

[42:42] John Michael Di Spirito: Um, probably Victoria, because I think she would do crazy. What's like some bar Pilates classes.

[42:51] Mike Abrams: I had Victoria bomb, you know, like one of the, yeah. One of those two, which would be great. Although I could see Mistoffelees also being really strong. Cut to me trying to get all of the Peloton instructors to dress up as cats this year.

[43:04] John Michael Di Spirito: I'm here for it.

[43:07] Mike Abrams: If they need, if they need advice, if they need someone to come in and, uh, and let them know, I'm, I can give them some, you know, like, Hey, if you want to embody this character, here's how you do it. These are your three words. I've got them. I found, I found them documented now. So I've got it, which I have to say, I didn't know anything until you had mentioned it. I, I didn't know anything until all of a sudden, the first couple of interviews, people were just like, Hey, here are my three words. And I was like, this makes more sense. Like, yeah, this is what you're given to work with. Cause you're not given a story in most cases, which is really, really funny because like I was looking through them and it's like syllabub, dreamy, yearning, curious.

And I'm like yearning. Okay. Yeah. So then I always feel like she would have been Grisabella's daughter that very possible. Like I always, I always feel like Grisabella is sort of like an estranged, like familial sort of thing. And that's why they do the whole like slow touch at the end. That kind of weird. You can almost argue almost every cat to be related to almost every other cat. If you, if you dig in, it's a lot of, it's very incestuous group. If the entire show is feral. Yeah. If you dig in and then they all have their ball together, it's, you know, it's, it's definitely there.

[44:01] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. So are you going to defend Grisabella or are you going to argue for somebody else? And then I'll give you my arguments.

[44:06] John Michael Di Spirito: Um, I, the only person I would defend Grisabella only if it's not Macavity.

[44:12] Mike Abrams: Macavity. Okay. Give me a Macavity defense.

[44:13] John Michael Di Spirito: Because it's just, he's the only one that like, you know, you literally have this like utopian, you know, feline society where everybody's just sort of singing, dancing in there. I mean, what's better. They're singing songs about themselves. So it's just like, here, let me just give you everything that there is to know about me. And, you know, just shake it a little bit. But Macavity comes in and it's just like the of the whole show where I'm like, why do you got to do that? Yes. We have a great song about you, the cavity, which I definitely support, but it just causes so much terror in the moment that I'm like, I don't, I don't need it. We can skip you. You can go come back as a better cat.

[44:13] Mike Abrams: So your argument is centered around what's best for the tribe is to get rid of Macavity, who's broken every human law. Yeah. It's in a song. And so I think that that argument is fair.

[44:20] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah.

[44:21] Mike Abrams: I think any argument that's not Chris Bell is fair. So I'll just like, I'll keep that. I have heard arguments from a cavity. I think the cavity is by being older is technically in the running. I, to answer your question of how I viewed it, I'll give you the, I'll give you my non-serious answer first. And I'll give you my actual thoughtful answer. My non-serious answer is for everyone who's listened to this, you can fast forward for like probably a minute and you'll, you've heard this story. I, I saw Leona Lewis as Chris Bell.

[44:54] John Michael Di Spirito: Oh, wow.

[44:55] Mike Abrams: And so that was how I went in and that's what I knew. I knew her and great Broadway cast. I'd heard. There's a lot of people that were really talented. I didn't, you know, at that point I don't know anything about Broadway. So I went in and about halfway through, I'm like, I feel like I'm watching a very, very, very drugged out, bizarre X factor. And so if I am from that lens and that lens only, if you are the audience at home voting, and if you are an X factor fan or not even a fan, but you just have watched enough of it, Simon Cowell likes to pair solos into groups and a couple of very famous like one direction and fifth harmony have come out of this. So I thought Tugger and Mistoffelees, who, if you dig deep into the fan literature, fan fiction as well as a combination that is a common stop, I thought that the two of them should go together.

You know, like they, they were really entertaining performances. They were the performance I remember the most about. And I thought that, you know, like they could be a duo and they'll go together if you're voting on from an X factor standpoint.

[46:01] John Michael Di Spirito: I definitely get that. And I feel like they're definitely two of the most adaptable for the entire show. They're always doing something. And they're memorable and fun. Now that is taking the lens of this is the X factor. We're going to not kill. We're going to promote to the wind based off of purely performance. And the only thing that they got to be is they're going to have a really nice package for Grisabella's like redemption story before she performs at the end. Memory is going to be a tough one, but maybe even if they don't win, they're going to be the ones that are most successful. And so that's kind of how it went. Now, the logical argument that I would make with most people after 70 plus episodes of talking about this is you have to go back to how old Deuteronomy makes the decision.

That is really the crux of it. And I don't, there is no answer to this unless maybe Andrew come clarify for me, because we only have one ball to decide off of. I don't know how he makes the decision last year or next year, but if you're making the decision on redemption or who's most worthy or who deserves to go, I think it's Gus because I would argue that Grisabella comes back and should spend a year with the tribe and she should be next year's choice. Why take her and have this like whole thing about, we're going to embrace you and accept you back into the tribe. Look how great this is. I'm going to kill you. You're gone. And so it's like, if you're going to bring them back and bring her back, give her that year to kind of reconnect with the whole tribe and then let her go next year.

[47:33] John Michael Di Spirito: Yeah, no, I definitely see that. And it's actually the, probably the most logical argument that I've heard. Maybe the only argument I've heard, but it's probably the most logical too. I like that actually, that makes a lot of sense. But I, what I always felt like, you know, they never really tell you why she's not a part of the tribe anymore.

[47:54] Mike Abrams: The rumor is, and this goes back to how much you believe in backstories, but the rumor is, or one of the rumors that I like to believe is that she got in bed with Macavity, went off to become super famous, got probably in on hard times, maybe became a sex worker, maybe did some drugs and is now coming back to her family. And so it's like, she went out to be big, didn't make it. I kind of like had joked for a while. It was like the bald Britney Spears phase. Well, I was just coming back and now you got, it's good timing. You're coming back and now you've got to read, you know, a resurrection of the career. She's coming home. Got it. I don't know. I always feel like there was more. Yeah. Cause it seems like the way that they really act towards her.

Like she did something awful. Yeah. Like she, like she probably ditched them. Yeah. And it's a call. So, you know, if you leave the call, are you welcome back? This is very, very true. I mean, and I definitely did not, I definitely was not getting that I didn't really, but again, they don't really, they don't really like explicitly say anything either because it's like, when the words, heavy side layer enter your vocabulary, you're like, well, what is that really anyway? Is it the afterlife? Is it a section of the Winter Garden Theater, which was a rumor? Is it like the, you know, cats have their nine lives? Is it onto the next slide? Yeah. Who knows? There is some like nuances to like, there's a baby Grizz, which is probably just an ensemble character to dance in the beginning.

Yeah. Well, because it becomes Gus. Yeah. So I still think my, my personal idea that I would like to do, which they'll never do, and they shouldn't do, dramatically changing the show. But then when they go on tour, they're at a stop for a couple places at a time. I think they should just kill a different character every night. I think that would be amazing. I think that would be absolutely hilarious. Give somebody a reason to come in every day. Like you can still sing memory and do everything. You can still do the whole show exactly as is. Yeah. Just send somebody else up at the end and then the next night pick a different person and just keep sending. No warning. Yeah. Just keep doing it. And then that way, if you go all five days and you know, Fargo, North Dakota, you can do five different versions of the same show, but you get a little flavor mix.

[49:14] John Michael Di Spirito: Absolutely. No, I'm very, very here for this.

[49:16] Mike Abrams: What do I know? I have zero experience in theater and Broadway or in any other thing to qualify me for to do this. Besides now 70 episodes talking about Mike Rizzo was the wrong choice.

[49:30] John Michael Di Spirito: Amazing. Amazing. That is where we're at. It's the stuff of legend. See, this is, uh, this is what happens when you moved to New York. You get brought into things that you never expected to get brought into.

[49:43] Mike Abrams: And that's, that's, what's fun about it.

[49:44] John Michael Di Spirito: Thank you for being here. How can we stay in touch?

[49:46] Mike Abrams: You can either follow me at DJ John Michael on Instagram at DJ John Michael NYC on Tik Tok. And you can see me in all the Peloton classes or I DJ in Philadelphia once or twice a month, every month, Tavern on Comeback and Center City.

[50:03] Mike Abrams: Awesome. Well, thank you for being here, humoring me, having this long conversation. It's been amazing.

[50:10] John Michael Di Spirito: Amazing. Anytime.

[50:11] Mike Abrams: And thanks for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died in the podcast breakdown of catastrophe. If you follow along, you can subscribe, like Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else. You listen to podcasts, follow us on Twitter and Instagram at The Wrong Cat Died, or check out our website.