This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest who has some crazy stories to tell. She was a swing covering Jelly Lorm and Jenny Anydots on the US National Tour 5. So, welcome, Katharine Heaton, and thank you for joining me.

[0:33] Katharine Heaton: Thank you. I'm excited.

[0:35] Mike Abrams: I'm excited because I know we've teased a little bit about that you went on as a swing, but there's more to that story. So, we will get there. Before we get there, though, I love always hearing your history with Cats before you booked the tour. So, when's the first time you saw it? What was your first experience with the show?

[0:53] Katharine Heaton: I'd never seen it, other than the video. So, in my room at home, the Cats VHS, I was not really amused. But the non-equity tour, you know, it just banged out auditions every single year at the same time every year. And I had finished my graduate degree and I was jumping in, literally pounding the pavement, you know, unofficial list, transferred to the official list and all of that. I auditioned five times. I booked this particular tour. To that, I booked it as Grizabella, honestly. And yeah, so I had high hopes of being in Phantom of the Opera. And I used to study the casting notices to see who was on the team of shows. And one of the music supervisors of Phantom, I used to help with the non-act tours. And that was the intention, not to be in Cats. But that all changed. I became a part of the show, because now it's one of my favorite shows. And I'm obsessed.

[2:28] Mike Abrams: I love it. So, you weren't interested in this at all. It was like, I'm auditioning because I need to audition because you want to get to work and you're at that point in your career. So, you're going to probably audition for anything. You're not a fan. You've seen the 1998 movie. Wasn't amused, wasn't obsessed with it. And you almost did it as a hook to Phantom, because of a musical supervisor. So, I love that. And then you get booked. So, that is kind of like, had you seen it at all before that or just the movie?

[3:01] Katharine Heaton: Just the movie and just memory, the song, who hasn't recorded that in their lives. So, I'm Marie and I had known about memory for years and what an incredible song it was. My grandmother actually was very into playing music in her house. And that was one of the songs that she always played. And just previous to auditioning for these tours, I had to sing memory at her 90th birthday party to a karaoke track. And I did it really well. So, I thought, I'm not a dancer dancer. I'm not going to be Victoria with the leg up by my ear. And everybody's like, you should audition for Griz. She doesn't hardly dance. She's on stage for 11 minutes. And I'm like, wow, this sounds great. And she has the best song in the show. But now is the best song in the show. So, yeah, I really just wanted to dress up as a cat in heels and a beautiful fur coat and down the face and sing memory.

[4:27] Mike Abrams: So, let's get into that. So, you do audition for your book as Griz, but there's more to this.

[4:34] Katharine Heaton: Yes. After several years of auditioning and callbacks and why didn't I get it and this and that, you know, Phantom always in the forefront. I'm only like 25 at that point. But then when I actually booked it, I was 29. And one of the oldest people, which is crazy to think about now, I was one of the oldest who booked. And we started with four weeks of rehearsal in New York City at Pearl Studios, good old Pearl, which I love. And we had 30 minutes every morning of a warm-up led by the incomparable Richard Stafford, who is just an incredible man. And then we had 30 minutes of felinity. So, that was put your tails on. We had rehearsal tails. Put your tails on and act like cats with each other for 30 minutes.

So, as a Griz, I was actually instructed to wait in the hallway for about 15 of those minutes. And so, the cats would all be with each other and having fun, fighting, this and that. And then I wouldn't. And the room, the entire mood would change. It's very unfair, but Griz is an outcast. And, you know, they treated her like junk, junkyard, junkyard material when she walked in the room in the show. And they tried to really hone that in. So, three weeks of that. And then the fourth and final week was a lot of it, but still just running, running, running. And long story short, I have an immense fear of heights.

[6:41] Katharine Heaton: And very long story short, I should say, I have an immense fear of heights. And I knew of the Heaviside Lair journey this entire, and I think a lot of it. But at the same time, I was really nervous about it. Fast forward, designer runs, we do everything at, you know, this beautiful place right near Carnegie Hall. And we fly off to China to do tech. And tech is the first place that I encounter something called the pod. And the pod is what Grizabella has. She's on the tire with old dude, who is Nathan Morgan. He's a dear friend of mine. And we tire together, the tire raises to about, you know, half the stage level. And I was fine on that. And then I just tried so hard. I tried for a week, I cried for a week, the cast was helping me for a week, the producers were helping me for a week, because I really wanted to be Grizabella, really good at it.

And I never got to do it. So I was fired. And it was so traumatic. It was a horrible, horrible experience. It was because when you have a fear of something, first of all, there's 5000 people who don't have that fear. And they can all do it fine. All of that, you know, self-esteem issue that comes along with that. And now, you know, still we're going on 12 years old kind of was like, Oh, you're the girl that that happened to on Cats, right? And it's like, Yes, I am. So I get sent home on a plane. And just so we're clear, everybody involved was sad about this. I say I was fired. It wasn't. It wasn't a firing. It was like, we are so sorry, but there is nothing we can do else to help you. They tried.

I mean, the Griz goes into that pod, and there's no harness. So if you're already having a pack, you already feel the effects of that you don't want to get into a pod that has no back and help. If you fall, if you faint, if you get scared, you're up there, say for the whole thing of Cats. So you're up there until the bow. And then that's how she takes her bow, the pod comes down, she takes her bow. So it's a good 10 minutes that you're up there. And there is a phone, there's a phone where you can communicate with the stage manager. And the stage manager said we can talk the entire 10 minutes if you want. But the reality is, is that I couldn't reach for the phone. Oh, faint. I had to make the decision that this was.

So that's why I'm not billed as Grizabella. I did four weeks of rehearsal and one week of tech. They let me do the whole show during tech, just not that part. Um, and they would call me in at different times when the cast wasn't called. So we could work on this. And it's not my proudest moment. But again, very long story short, the good news is, is two days later, I got a phone call from the producers being to fly me back. And to change they were going to tax and they wanted me to go. So nothing better could have happened from this than me nailing those other new tracks. And we can talk about all that if you want. But yeah, so I've technically played three roles in Cats who on stage one. I was the rehearsal Griz, I guess.

[11:11] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I'm curious. I mean, that's a first of all, it's a wild story, a crazy story. And I mean, I don't, I would hope it's not uncommon. I mean, I feel like fear of heights is fairly common. And there's other fears that are also fairly common. And it's sometimes it's not can't overcome. You know, it's like, like you said, it's like a paralyzing piece to where you couldn't even reach. Yeah, I'm like trying to think through my head of, like, that is a big part of the show. And it's something that they're obviously not going to want to change. And there's, I'm sure there were some workarounds, but none of them were really good. That's going to go up at the end of the show. Are there any other was thinking about what other things are there? Because there has to be other performers that have dealt with a similar situation. And how is that like, does that play into your audition for and like, have you thought about that moving forward?

[12:29] Katharine Heaton: Yes. So first of all, the lyric in the song is up, up, up Castle Hotel. So there was, I have a dear friend who in the business and he said, well, can't they just friggin change the lyrics to down, down, down? I was like, I guess not. They're not going to do that. So that was that. But then the next two shows that I got involved heights again, in a much smaller capacity. And the producer for the next show, which Evita, you're probably there's no heights in Evita. The Casa Rosada, the set piece, when you're an aristocrat, you sing from up there.

[12:48] Katharine Heaton: Obviously if you're Eva Perón you sing from up there. I was actually, full disclosure, I was really in that he thought that that was going to even compare to going up in the lighting rig for 10 minutes by herself. So it was kind of like a snarky like, well, we know it was actually the same producers as Cats Tour, so you know this guy on the phone was like, well, we know your issues. So are you gonna be okay with that? And I was like, it's the first floor of a house, like you're standing basically on like a little balcony or one minute singing with a group of people around. I never actually thought about it once. And then came along and I was just hired again, very long story to be a quick two-month replacement for somebody who briefly and I was turned into a six-month, turned into an eight-month.

Then that turned into learning all different roles and one of the roles was Madame Giry. When you go see Phantom, you probably don't think Madame Giry does a lot on a height issue, but behind the scenes she has to climb a very tall ladder at the end of the show with Raoul when they're through the lair and she's, it's right before the Raoul jump where he jumps into the lair to try and find Christine.

[14:00] Katharine Heaton: That company as well wanted me to be Madame Giry and I was flattered, but every single day when I went to work, you age and you see how high this thing is called the travelator. You know, it moves. I know we're not on video so I can't show it, but it moves front and back, but it also moves up and down and it slants and it moves front and slant and front and slant and back. And you're climbing a ladder that's very tossed in your costume and then you go out onto the bridge that's moving up and down, have a very brief scene and run off. And they approached me, say they would work with me for as long as it took. And it took over a week for me to go to the top of the ladder, then to let go of the ladder because as we previously talked about, I wouldn't even reach for that phone, so come into a state of paralysis and trust me, I've tried to work on this.

Everything has been suggested to me, so I'm not just sitting my thumbs saying I have a fear of heights. This is truly debilitating. But I ended up, I mean I've gone on for Madame Giry countless times and I will say though after the Broadway shut down, we had to redo tech things and I had to redo that and something about when it's in the show, it's only like a two-minute thing that's going on, maybe five. You have to endure that, but when you're in it, it's another situation and it was really hard.

[16:24] Mike Abrams: Was there a difference of like, I'm thinking about when you're on a Broadway stage that that set is there every day, not moving. You know, I don't want to say one's more or less safe than the other because I think there's obviously a lot of safety precautions. I've heard some crazy stories about Cats where the pod has gone up and crashed into the ceiling and that other things on a cruise or on other places where it's not, you know, it's moving almost every day. So does that like, do you, did you have more comfort in up on a Broadway stage knowing that that was gonna be there every day versus a touring every couple days?

[17:01] Katharine Heaton: Um, yeah, no, I mean on Broadway we had issues with this set piece, let's just say that. I mean it's been there 88. Yeah. But yeah, it's a different thing like you're not suspended in air by yourself in the lighting rig, you're not at risk for a crash. It's more like you have to climb the ladder, then you have to let go and let Raoul climb the ladder and then you go out on the bridge together. So my first Raoul, he was like, if you need to death grip my back or my arm just till we get out there on the bridge, like because once you get out you're screaming and there's a fast scene and the bridge is actually in motion coming down by the time the scene starts. So the answer to that is I guess I feel better on Broadway, but only in this situation. I mean their accidents happen all the time when a lot of shows. Yeah, and in Cats it's historically like physically demanding and heavy injury type of show.

[18:20] Mike Abrams: So you do go back and use Joey and Jenny, right?

[18:25] Katharine Heaton: Yeah, while I remember getting the phone call and I am, I can dance a dancer. I do not bill myself a dancer when I'm in an audition. I mean a nation that I produce, but I just keep laughing and then actually by the end of the rehearsal period I'm like kicking, turning, jumping, all of the above. I love it. I love it. And that's actually what I end up missing from shows when I leave the show. So, but I had to learn this was my first, it wasn't my first time understudying, but it was my first time at this type of level and we were in, like I said, bathrooms, we were in ZM at school, we were in a coffee room, we were in any sort of situation that lab. This is all last-minute too, they weren't planning to have these rehearsals and you know, it took a few weeks and I went on for the first time at the most beautiful, majestic theater in San Antonio, Texas. I don't know any of our Bob in there, but it is to die for.

[19:46] Katharine Heaton: I just went on and I did amazing. I was Jelly and it was incredible. Like it was wild and then after that I forget where you went on, but I remember the first time.

[20:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah, we're gonna take some messages from our sponsors and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died.

[20:09] Katharine Heaton: I want to now pivot a little bit because you said in the beginning that you weren't a fan of the show or I don't know, it wasn't your thing compared to your Phantom. I'm ready to go on, but then now it sounds like you are part of the Jellicle family for life. So, how did that, like where did that moment come where all of a sudden you said, okay, this is actually for me, I love it, this is a great show?

[20:37] Katharine Heaton: I think it's when I went on as Jelly for the first time because I never got to go on as Grizabella. And I actually, as I said before, Grizabella is an outcast, you spend most of the show alone anyway, so in a way, I'm truly blessed to me because I still remember people in the cast when I got to go on, like I'm getting sad happy just thinking about the friendship and Chanel can when you're part of, as we call it, and that if it did everything for me because, you know, I was, when you're in Cats you're like, you're in. I also thought it was amazing that you never had to just in the unitard and I only had to add on for the opera like the white puppy and the long gloves and the hat, but other than that, you're just in the show and come as you are and you're all over the floor with these people.

[21:46] Katharine Heaton: It also expanded my capacity as a performer like nothing else ever has. Yeah, did not, I mean even when they called me to come back down to North Carolina to open the show as somebody else, I said, are you serious? Like I said, you know how long it's gonna take me to learn this? And they were like, don't care, we want you. And also when you're a swing in Cats, you sing every night, you sing this show every night, which I think technically, I think every show should do that, just saying, because it's an amazing experience and you're still part of the show every single night. So to answer your question, it was the community that was created around me learning these new tracks and being in the booth, as we call it, every night with the other swings and learn. I mean, Cats is a whole body experience. You know, and it just changes you. There's nothing, I cannot think of anything else like it. Nothing.

[23:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I want to, I'm curious if you, the entire rehearsal process, they almost trained the Cats to have some animosity towards you, like you weren't in the Flint school for this, you weren't part of that. And then when you come back, you're now on the other side of that. Was there a transition period with the cast of where they had to remove your Grizabella to accept your Jelly and Jenny? Like what was that? Was that hard for them?

[23:30] Katharine Heaton: No, this is what I'm saying. I remember like I'm seeing it right now in my head. So the way that the producers handled my coming back was a secret to the cast because they told me on the phone that everyone was, they said the morale is really low and they say, I guess they lied to the cast and they said they were flying to New York to do auditions because this is before like virtual auditions. They were flying to New York to do a quick audition of like people that were in callbacks before for the, they bumped, they bumped the cover up to Griz, who was, her name was Melissa and she was incredible and she should be doing it eight times a week and could do it eight times a week and she was great.

So they bumped her up, so now they needed a swing and they bumped the swing. So they had two female swings, they bumped one to Griz and one to Jelly. So now they needed this swing and they said that they were going to New York to audition, you know, people who were in callbacks before and that that person that they hired someone and that person was gonna join the cast tonight.

[25:07] Katharine Heaton: I was, and they said that nobody knew a thing except, you know, the music and the dance and the producers and I walked in, it was this auditorium like a school auditorium, college in Hamlet, North Carolina, and they were like, this is our new swing. They didn't say the name and they opened the door and I walked in and people were like, people jumped, people screamed, people like it was like on Price is Right when you win at the end. I mean, it was like honestly, it was the best feeling that I have ever felt and there was no need to go into that. I think it would actually just, you know, the reverse.

[25:37] Katharine Heaton: Of roles, everybody was just so happy that this is how it was turning out.

[25:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that has to be, you know, like it is a family and you go through a lot together to have it end kind of abruptly. And so I'm sure everyone was like, beyond thrilled to find a way to have you there.

[25:57] Katharine Heaton: Yeah. And, you know, but it was like, oh, okay, now I'm going to be on stage for two hours versus 11 minutes. So I better get, you know, eating my salads and everything like that. I mean, from a performer's perspective, it is a totally different vibe than being Grizz. Like, yeah, you get a very short period with Grizz and you go on and you belt and, but everybody else is on there almost the entire time. And you dance the 11-minute ball sequence and everything in between. There's like very few moments when you're not on stage. And so it is a completely different show almost compared to what, you know, the Grizabella track. And even when you're like lying down on stage, you end up somehow being choreographed into a crunch and like a V or some sort of Pilates move.

Like you can't just lay down on stage. It's got to be perfect, you know, and it, that was just something, like I said, it's a whole body experience. I, I was not ready for that. I'm going to be honest. Like I thought I'd be smoking my Grizz cigarette, you know, and having the morning after look and, you know, being fabulous glamour cat in the junkyard. And that was not the case.

[27:18] Katharine Heaton: No, as a swing you have to be ready all the time. So that was the other thing is you have to be ready to go on in perfect or perfect for you near perfect condition at any time. So that was another mindset shift that was a little anxiety provoking, but it turned out fine.

[27:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Did you ever go on for an injury like mid-show?

[27:43] Katharine Heaton: No, no, no, no.

[27:44] Mike Abrams: That's the part of swings I can't fathom. It just seems so crazy to be, I guess you at least in Cats you're in the booth and you're singing, but to be just sitting there and then all of a sudden quickly throwing on and jumping in in the second act just to me sounds insane.

[28:00] Katharine Heaton: Yeah. We used to, I think we went to the booth in pin curls and so every day we were kind of prepped and then we used to have to do quizzes on how fast you could do your makeup just in case.

[28:16] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[28:17] Katharine Heaton: So if that did happen, I would have eight minutes. I remember eight minutes in my head right now. I would have eight minutes to go on. So they would either, if it's a part that is critical to the next song, I think they would hold the show. If it wasn't critical to the next number, they would allow the person to be out and then the new cat's going to come in and it, my experience, it was non-union. So there wasn't any of this having to announce your name and all of that.

[28:49] Mike Abrams: I want to talk a little bit about theories and backstories. You played and rehearsed for three of the characters. What are some of the backstories that you had to create for yourself to get through kind of like, hey, this is Jenny's story. This is Jelly's story. What were your theories you made up?

[29:11] Katharine Heaton: And they're all so different. So the Grizz one is that I had time for that. I had time to think of her and develop her and really, you know, obviously I'm not the same. I wasn't the same age. You know, Grizz is kind of dated. But I had had some life experiences as I think a lot of actors have, where you felt like an outcast growing up at your school, you were made fun of. I just felt like a lot of the Grizz stuff was very easy for me to tap into. I am pretty dark in my thoughts and I sang it that way too. And I remember the music supervisor saying I had never heard the song sung this way. You know, like her opening part is called Remark, the cat. And, you know, I had so much pain in my voice.

And that's really the only other than not being able to do the pod. That was the only regret that I had is that I never got to share that. Like I had gone through some stuff and I let it fly. I let it rip in the character of Grizz. She was just so relatable to me. And I know that sounds really dark, but I felt very connected to her. And maybe someday I will get to share that backstory at another theater that possibly uses stairs or something else. So if you're out there, call me. And then for Jenny and Jelly, first of all, I don't, I have never played like a happy, fun character. I play these dark, usually older women and, you know, like Madam Jury is Grizz. Is Grizz Madam Jury? I don't know.

But these two, they're not kittens. They're not in the kitten category because we have those two, you know, Silly and Victoria and those kinds, but they have, they were fun. And that was really hard for me. I have to be honest. I have fun in my life, but I just, for whatever reason, I mean, my voice is darker. And so I had to learn this. I had to figure this out. And for Jenny, in my mind, she was like a cute grandma type. Like she was the fairy godmother in Cinderella. That was who I thought of with her. And she was just so laughable and excitable. And then Jelly, I just envisioned her as the quintessential ingenue, another thing that I don't really connect with. But in that show, I certainly did.

That her and Gus have this odd relationship, kind of like if you see an old lady crossing the street or an old man crossing the street and you want to be of service and help them, you know, that was her. Like, she's just like the sweetest, kindest person, cat out there. And, you know, it was just, it was such a mind stretcher for me to come up with these things for each cat. And then when you're a swing, you have to like, switch it. Oh, tonight, I'm the fairy godmother. Tonight, I am, you know, the sweet girl next door. It was a really mind-blowing experience, for sure.

[33:04] Katharine Heaton: I want to talk about one more thing before we go into the rapid fire, because I do know, you know, you've mentioned a couple times that you were, Phantom was like the end goal. And so, you know, you've been in three Andrew Lloyd Webber shows. What was, I think you said your vacation is when you start, but what was that moment like when you got that call and you kind of had the Broadway Phantom opportunity dream come to life?

[33:28] Katharine Heaton: So, it was incredible. It was an email. I had actually given up on auditioning. I had had a string of, this is after Evita, I had had a string of callbacks go nowhere. And while I was on Evita, I will say that I went to Kinko's and I got, well, from someone in Phantom, I got the PDF score. Then I went to Kinko's in California and had it bound and made into something that I could carry around. So, I'm on this other tour, who also had the same music supervisor, by the way, and I'm carrying around this Phantom score. I'm learning different parts in Phantom. I'm teaching them to myself and I let the Phantom staff who did Evita and partially did Cats know that I was learning these things. And they had seemed very impressed with me and my, you know, high soprano ability and my, you know, I get along with everybody.

I have a great time in the show. And I think that really, I let them know then that, you know, Phantom was my thing, my life goal. And they called me into a bathroom in Orlando, Florida when they were, they used to fly out for visits, you know, to check in. And we had a 10 a.m. Saturday morning music rehearsal because they were like, we are getting this done. And before two shows, like, it's pretty unheard of. But after the music rehearsal, they come up to me and said, we'll hear you now. And I was like, Phantom now? And they were like, yes. So we went to some, it was like a bathroom or a dressing room closet or something. It was insane. And I just, they were like, well, what do you know? And I said, I could do Carlotta.

I could do Madame Jury. I could do the Magical Lasso. I could do Prima Donna. Okay, we'll hear all of that. So I was like, oh, and it's now like 11 a.m. And I'm like, okay. So the conductor from Evita who traveled with us, William, he was amazing. William Waldrop, he played and I sang and they were very impressed with me. Well, half of them were very impressed with me and the other half was emailing the whole time. So whether or not that was about me, I highly doubt it. And then that was in March and I got this email. I left the show, the tour ended, and I got this email in October. So I never heard a peep after that day in the bathroom. Never said, we'll think of you, we'll think of you fondly, never said a word.

[36:20] Mike Abrams: That is crazy. You had to audition in the bathroom and then hear nothing for six months, seven months, what is that? And then get an email saying, come to New York and come on.

[36:39] Katharine Heaton: Yeah. So I lived in New York and I've been in New York for over 20 years and I was subletting. I had never had my own place. And I remember I was on a couch and I was just like scrolling and this email came in asking me if I would be free next January, February to cover a leave of absence at the Majestic. We'd love to have you. And I literally like, I don't know what that is about. I will say, I do want to say for the listeners, this isn't like a, I never auditioned and I got an email and I'm an overnight success. I had auditioned for Phantom of the Opera for 10 years and they never looked at me in the audition room. So I was non-ac, I used to wait on the benches. I used to have to use the McDonald's bathroom in Times Square to change into my dress.

Like it was, it was really hard. And then, so it wasn't like it just fell into my lap. I had auditioned for 10 years and I had done two shows that I didn't even know about just to get closer to these people. So it shows the importance of networking and doing a good job and following up and believing in yourself and putting in the work. So yeah, I just can't even tell you what that was like. That experience was eight years of my life that I look back on really fondly.

[38:19] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I also think like, you said putting in the work, but you were doing another show and teaching yourself multiple parts at the same time.

[38:27] Katharine Heaton: You just stumbled into this. There's an immense amount of work that went into this.

[38:31] Katharine Heaton: Yeah, and I pushed my voice, too. When I auditioned for Cats, I was a mezzo. In my head, I was a mezzo. In college, I was a mezzo. I was always, like I said, the old lady or the friend or the sidekick. And I didn't know until I became this swing in Cats that, I mean, Jelly and Jenny in the booth have to sing high Ds. And I have high Ds, but I didn't know I did. And so I thought, oh my gosh, I'm even more right for Phantom now. And then for eight years, that's what I sang there, unless I was going on as Giri. And that was so much fun to do that. That was like a vocal vacation compared to these crazy opera notes that were happening.

[39:21] Mike Abrams: Yeah. You picked very easy, simple shows to be a part of with Cats' two and a half hours of dancing and singing and then this extremely operatic Phantom. Well, let's go into the rapid fire. If you could play any cat for one night, who would you want to go on as?

[39:35] Katharine Heaton: Old Dude.

[39:41] Mike Abrams: Old Dude. Give me some why.

[39:44] Katharine Heaton: Well, the old dude of the old days when like during intermission he had, well, he did sit there for the whole intermission. But I think in the old days on Broadway, they used to like let kids come up, kind of like a Sam type thing. And first of all, he is he he's the best. He's the best voice. He has these profound musical phrases and he is just like, I don't know, he's so cool. He's the coolest to me. And then he comes out and does like a second of the ball, which is just he's he's well-rounded and he is loved by all women, children, kids, puppies.

[40:28] Mike Abrams: I was not expecting them to stay on during intermission and the bathroom. Yeah. And so and they were I don't remember in 2016 if they had people going up and taking pictures. I think they did because it was pre-COVID. Now, obviously, it's much harder.

[40:41] Mike Abrams: Okay. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats?

[40:48] Katharine Heaton: I would say I'm not a fan of Macavity. He can just go somewhere else for a while, except I did like singing that song about him. But I don't like him. He is a little evil and nasty over him. And my favorite is Grizabella, hands down. I mean, it's just a torch I'm still carrying. She has such such an arc.

[41:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's crazy.

[41:18] Katharine Heaton: Well, this isn't going to be good for me. It's gonna be bad for the last question. It sounds like. What is your favorite song from Cats? Well, all right. Other than memory, I'll try and pick another one. I love the ball, but it doesn't involve singing. So I would say...

[41:35] Katharine Heaton: I would count the ball. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it's to me, the song is either a musical number or singing. So I yeah, it's a track on the album, in my opinion. So that I would count that. I think addressing like it is just like for for the tracks that I had, it was like high soprano power singing, standing in place for once, just like you just give it to the audience.

[42:05] Katharine Heaton: But I will say there's Skimbleshanks. I mean, when I found out I had to like build a train, dance and sing at the same time. But the Jelly, I think Jenny just held something small, but Jelly had a full on wagon wheel that she had to turn. So you have to kick the wagon wheel, hold the wagon wheel. And then Skimbleshanks, obviously, he's really cute. He might be one of my favorites, too. I love all the songs. I am such a loser, but I want to sing all the songs right now. Such a transition from the you with the 1998 VHS, who didn't like it. Wow. Angelical Cats. I think that, sorry, that might be my favorite opening number. I love it.

[42:57] Mike Abrams: Okay, here's my fun question. You auditioned for American Idol, I believe, correct?

[43:03] Katharine Heaton: Twice. So which cat do you think would be the best American Idol judge?

[43:08] Katharine Heaton: Whoa. Shoot. I think there are a couple of answers to this. I've thought about this a lot. Who's the Simon Cowell of Cats? Who's the Paula? Who's the Randy? I feel like the Paula is Jenny Any Dots. She would just be so nice then. The Simon Cowell of Cats.

[43:29] Katharine Heaton: Maybe Grizz, because she's the best singer ever in her mind. And everybody in Cats is great at singing or should be. But hers is like, she's just so bitter. She would be the bitter judge. And then Randy. Hmm. That could be like Gus Growl Tiger. Yeah, I think there's a couple that you eliminate. So I was like, I almost did this backwards. I was like, I don't think Tugger or Mesophilus or any of the kittens are probably thinking about it. So it's who are on the adult Cats. I do think you got, I had Simon as a little Old Deuteronomy-ish.

[44:08] Katharine Heaton: Because I think Old Deuteronomy is making his decisions and kind of the leader and definitely in charge. And I, as this podcast is clear, I don't think he makes the right decision. So I'm like, ah, Simon Cowell over here just doing whatever he feels. I think Paula and Jenny is right. I think that's probably the best parallel. I think you can maybe say Jelly too. And then Randy I had trouble with because I thought, to your point, I think it could be Gus. But Gus, I always feels older. Part of me had his little Bustopher Jones where it's like, I do have some money. I'm behind the scenes here. I'm going to be involved in this. But I feel like he's more of an executive producer of the show than he is anything else.

[44:49] Katharine Heaton: And he's played by whoever the Gus track is. So I think that whole, maybe I did mean Bustopher Jones. I was thinking Monk, but I'm like, because he's super strong. But I'm like, no, Monk would audition. Monk wouldn't judge.

[45:04] Katharine Heaton: And Skimbleshanks is running the show. He's making sure the set's on time and everything's going. He's the stage manager.

[45:12] Mike Abrams: Exactly.

[45:14] Katharine Heaton: Oh my gosh. I love it.

[45:18] Mike Abrams: Okay. Let's go to the final question. I've argued at length. I don't think Grizabella should be the right Jellicle choice. I want to hear if you want to defend Grizabella or if you want to defend a different cat.

[45:29] Katharine Heaton: I do. I mean, other than my fear of heights, it would have been really convenient if she wasn't the choice. That would have been great. But that's not how Trevor Nunn and A.L. Dubs thought of it. Yeah, I defend it. I think that she, like I said earlier, has a tremendous arc in her character. And I mean, when you're Grizabella or when you're any of the cats, you line up and she, on her way to the Heaviside, she has to shake hands with every single cat that was mean to her. And they are so happy for her in this moment. Like the animosity is gone. And they're sending her off in like heavenly Heaviside layer bliss.

[46:17] Katharine Heaton: And I just think she's been waiting for this for her whole cat life.

[46:22] Mike Abrams: So here's my one gripe with this. I get the arc. Obviously, I understand the choice. I feel like if she's being re-accepted by her family, why not let her spend the year with them and make her next year's choice? I just think she's ripe.

[46:39] Katharine Heaton: So you don't think she's going to make it to next year?

[46:41] Katharine Heaton: I think she's earned it. I just feel like she, you know, I don't think she's the type to now go to everyone's birthday party for a year and dance with them and play with them and buy them Christmas gifts. And she's not like that. She's done. That's my thing. Like if she lasted one more year in the junkyard, I just don't see it for her. I see her, you know, going straight up, you know, to meet that layer in the sky. And she is ready. She's earned it.

[47:20] Mike Abrams: So basically, she's the addict. You don't believe that she's going to rehabilitate for a year. It's like, no, she's being accepted right now. This is good. This is what the family needs and wants. Let's send her before she leaves again or there's any other issues because she's not going to go to the birthday party. She's not going to do that. I just don't think she's going to acclimate very well. And I think she's, I also think she is so happy going up there. Another reason why I was not the right choice for this role, because I was crying, but for a different reason. And, you know, death gripping onto the sides of this thing, you're supposed to, again, we're not on video, but you're supposed to just be in delight that you're heading up there. And she is. And yeah, I just don't see her as one of the gang.

[48:28] Katharine Heaton: Well, this has been... I don't see her hanging out in the back of D'Agostino's dumpster for a year.

[48:36] Katharine Heaton: She's not going to. Yeah. I love that. She's not going to go to birthday parties and family dinners and stuff. She's past that point. She's done and ready to move on. She's done.

[48:40] Mike Abrams: Okay. I could buy that. I think I can buy that part of it. I still have other challenges with this, but I understand that theory.

[48:47] Mike Abrams: I love it. Well, this has been super fun. I appreciate you sharing your story and, you know, given, you know, all of this, you know, backstory on what is, I'm sure was probably very, you know, was a very challenging time, but also ends up with you on Phantom, the end goal, I'm sure. And I know you want it.

[49:05] Katharine Heaton: It was. It was a very happy ending. And we just met such amazing people. We've celebrated weddings together, baby showers together, deaths together. We've grieved together. So it just Cats creates a family. And I'm sure everyone says this, and it might sound cliche, unless you've been in Cats, but there's nothing like it. And I really appreciate you having me on this. This has been awesome.

[49:39] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's been amazing. How can people stay in touch with you and find you on social media or keep up with you?

[49:44] Katharine Heaton: So they can keep up with me? I'm private, but you can just request it's at Kitty Heaton. That's my nickname on Instagram. And I also run a very near and dear nonprofit to me in honor of one of my sisters who passed away suddenly. And that would be at Maureen Heaton Foundation on Instagram or Facebook and follow our mission and you'll see me posting a lot.

[50:22] Mike Abrams: I will link both of those for everybody in the episode. This has been amazing. So thank you again for being a guest.

[50:29] Katharine Heaton: Thank you. And Mike, this is awesome. I've never really told my story. So for all of you followers to thank you for listening and giving me a space to chat.

[50:44] Mike Abrams: I'm glad that we were able to have you on. So thank you and thanks everyone else to listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast Breakdown the Castatrophe. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok at The Wrong Cat Died, or check out our website at thewrongcatdied.com.