This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast to break down the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and we have another Vault episode today. Every once in a while, I'm going to bring back an old episode that I really enjoyed, just to show just how far the podcast has come over time. And this one's really cool. This one was episode 32, recorded December 14th of 2020 is when we released it. And it was with Fergie Philippe, who at the time was in Hamilton, and did Cats as Old Deuteronomy at Elon University in this wild college production that we've now learned over the years, also had J.J. Neiman and a couple other people. And it was a very unique winter production that was a fun conversation.

But Fergie is just recently going on as the Beast in the national tour of Beauty and the Beast and is one of the leads of that show. So very excited because they are coming through my hometown of Indiana at some point next year in 2026. So I'm going to hopefully see Fergie perform as the Beast here soon. But I wanted to throw this episode back up. It was super fun conversation, very hilarious explanation of their production and of Old Deuteronomy and how Fergie performed it. So enjoy the episode. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[1:29] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams. And today we have another fun episode. You might have seen him on Broadway in this tiny little musical called Hamilton, where he recently played James Madison. But I'm throwing away my shot at that discussion to talk about his performance as Old Deuteronomy at Elon University in college. So welcome, Fergie L. Philippe. And thank you for joining me.

[1:52] Fergie L. Philippe: Oh, thank you for having me, man. Listen, this show is infamously my favorite show that I did at Elon. So I'm very excited to get to talk about it.

[2:03] Mike Abrams: I love it. So I guess how many shows did you do at Elon University?

[2:09] Fergie L. Philippe: Well, I mean, shows overall over 20. But Cats was part of our main stage program that we put on, I want to say, six main stages every year. And I got to do, I think, eight of the main stage shows. And we did Cats in the winter of my senior year.

[2:28] Mike Abrams: So let's talk. I guess before we talk about that production, tell me about your Cats history. Had you seen it before that production? Did you know much about it?

[2:34] Fergie L. Philippe: I had once seen it. I think I was a junior. I think I had watched it with a group of friends intoxicated because we knew we were going to be doing the show next year.

[2:50] Mike Abrams: And so you got the schedule. You're like, we got the schedule. I got to get ready. I need to do some research.

[2:56] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah. And so you saw the 1998 movie.

[2:58] Fergie L. Philippe: We saw the tape. We saw the tape.

[3:00] Mike Abrams: VHS. Okay. Even better.

[3:02] Fergie L. Philippe: Yes.

[3:07] Fergie L. Philippe: I think we had gone to like Goodwill earlier in the week and he had found it in the VHS section, which still exists at most Goodwills.

[3:17] Mike Abrams: And we had a major university. You couldn't have gone to the public library and grabbed it.

[3:22] Fergie L. Philippe: They didn't have that.

[3:24] Fergie L. Philippe: They didn't have Cats, which is probably a good decision on their part.

[3:30] Fergie L. Philippe: Which is probably a good decision on their part.

[3:32] Mike Abrams: So you had never been exposed to it until you're a junior in college.

[3:36] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah. I mean, I think the only song that I knew was, I mean, I know the famous the Jellicle Ball. I know the Jellicle Ball. And I knew the opening because when I was in high school, I went to a summer camp. Shout out to French Woods Festival of the Performing Arts. We had this thing called Cabaret Troupe. And one year we were doing London. And the opening number was like the first 16 bars of Cats.

[4:04] Mike Abrams: Wow. So that's rare because I'm used to people saying that they knew memory and only memory.

[4:09] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, I kind of knew the intro. I knew memory like how I just knew memory all alone in the moonlight. That's really about it. And I only knew it because of School of Rock, that like one moment in School of Rock. But I didn't really know. I didn't really know memory like that.

[4:23] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I love that your first interaction with the musical was intoxicated because that's the way I think you should be seeing it.

[4:30] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah. I thought it was correct.

[4:31] Mike Abrams: So what did you like? How did you feel watching it? And then did you even know who Old Deuteronomy was when you when you were watching the VHS?

[4:39] Fergie L. Philippe: I knew Ken Page was in it. And that's really all I cared about. I would someone said I didn't want to watch this. That was also something that should be stated. I was very against watching the show that night. But somebody said, but Fergie, Ken Page is in it. And I said, OK, we'll hit play because I love Ken Page. Ken Page is one of my, you know, vocal idols. But I remember watching it. I think I actually had a very good sense about it because I didn't feel anything like why am I watching this? What is happening? I was just having a great time. And it was probably because I was intoxicated. I don't think that I took it too seriously. I was just like, there are all these people in unitards dancing very well to some really interesting psychedelic 80s Andrew Lloyd Webber jams. That's what we'll call them.

[5:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that is, I guess, an interesting introduction to the musical. I mean, you know, you know, a little bit of the beginning, you know, a couple bars of memory, but then you just you know, you're about to audition for it and you're about to do it in college. So you're ready to go.

[5:50] Fergie L. Philippe: So I'm ready to go. It was Skimbleshanks that made me be like, oh, I don't do I am I really going to if I get cast, will I hate myself? It was Skimbleshanks that really made me understand why people didn't like the show.

[6:04] Mike Abrams: That was your your hate. You hated Skimbleshanks.

[6:08] Fergie L. Philippe: I don't hate Skimbleshanks, but it was one of those numbers that I was like, how did this get approved? You made a long way through that musical before you said, wow, I know.

[6:17] Fergie L. Philippe: I know. I think I would say that I have a very low I have a I have a high tolerance for bad musical theater in terms of watching it. And I don't think necessarily Cats is a bad musical. Even watching the beginning part of it, I was like, I can I can get with this. I can let myself, you know, invest in this. But Skimbleshanks was the moment where I was like, oh, this this is why people are upset. This is why people have very active anger.

[6:52] Mike Abrams: That is, that's see, I didn't walk out of the show that I saw in 2016 as a revival on Broadway. Then I saw it again a year later, almost to the day. And then when I was starting to prepare for this podcast, because, you know, I got suckered into doing this, I was watching them like individually on YouTube. But I was like, I should watch the whole thing. And I ended up watching it on a plane because I was able to buy and download to watch offline on a plane. And I watched on an iPad on a plane. And the whole time I was like, what what's happening? Like, what is happening here again? Because I wasn't intoxicated. But it's it's I've got I've got a lot of opinions on the show, but I want to get to your your performance. How long was your run?

[7:37] Fergie L. Philippe: We I mean, it was I think six performances over a span of one weekend. No, it was over a weekend. Actually, it was one weekend. We did a show Thursday, a show Friday, two show Saturday, two show Sunday, and then we were done. That's how it went.

[7:53] Mike Abrams: So what was told to you? Because I've been fascinated by the storyline, about the plot or lack thereof plot. And there's a million ways to interpret these characters. And it seems like there are parts that are just like unwritten parts that everyone's told. But in a production like this, it's gonna be one weekend. How much did they tell you about Old Deuteronomy? Like when they say this is what you need to know. Here's how you need to embrace it. Did they give you any heads up on like how to take on this role?

[8:20] Fergie L. Philippe: Yes, no. Yes. There was, I remember that there were directions in the callbacks, just simple as you are in charge of everyone. In our production, Deuteronomy was basically everyone's father. That was essentially how we kind of played it out. That we would figure out the tree later, but essentially, Deuteronomy was the all madra of fathers for cats. That's a little dark though. Now, when you think about it, because it means that you're about to kill one of your kids.

[9:02] Fergie L. Philippe: It means I'm about to kill one of my kids. That's right. We'll get into it. We'll definitely get into a lot. There were a lot of different choices that we decided to go this route because it should also be stated, this production was done right after the 2016 election. Right after the election. So that would have been before. No, the revival had already been going. The revival had already been going. Yes. We had managed to get the right direction. We had managed to get the right direction. We had managed to get the right direction. We had managed to get the rights right before they cut off any school production. So we were the only outside production doing cats next to the cruise ship at the time.

[9:48] Mike Abrams: Wow. Okay. So one weekend that you couldn't see it on Broadway. You came down to North Carolina and you came and seen these college kids do some cats.

[10:04] Fergie L. Philippe: Um, but I, I only remembered as far as the director, her name is Lynn Fermato. God bless that woman. She, she and I had a great relationship. We had worked together on a few shows at Elon and she was very good that she, she always artistically trusted me in whatever show that I did with her. So there wasn't necessarily a lot of conversation always. But the one thing that she said to me after rehearsal once is you're playing him like a great Shakespeare King. And that's the, that's the direction I want you to keep going in. And that was basically it. That was the only direction that I had.

[10:40] Mike Abrams: So Shakespeare King, dad of everybody and nothing else. Did they tell any other line, like for other characters, what other family trees relationships did you establish as truth?

[10:52] Fergie L. Philippe: So once we essentially, once we, uh, gotten to rehearsals, the way that we established the tree, and I cannot remember if we made it in rehearsal with everybody else, or if we just, uh, as a cast did it, I had many, many conversations with cast members, like different cast members about the specificities of relationships. So all I knew is that I had a set of children that involved monk who strap, uh, rum tum. Um, I think coracle Pat, nope, not coracle Pat and potentially mystopheles mystopheles. There we go. That's who I'm looking for. So my main three, like my main three, like oldest children were mystopheles rum tum and monk who strap, um, other children included Demeter and, um, Bombay arena.

Uh, what about my cavity? Macavity was my son, but cavity was our son who went, uh, who went to stray and fell off the beaten path. Uh, Jenny, any dots we originally, it was my best friend, Jesse. We originally decided we were Xs. And then she got the memo that. We were that everyone was my child. And she said, I'm very sorry. I did not mean to turn this into an incestuous cat relationship. That's not what I was going. So she could be mom. She could be mom, but I think she's mom. She could be mom. I think she, I think she, so this is how it differs with us. We, uh, she decided to bow out. And I think she, she might've even said sister or something. I can't remember how that went, but essentially our, our.

[12:39] Fergie L. Philippe: Her overall dynamic was that Grizzy was mom.

[12:44] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[12:45] Fergie L. Philippe: Grizzy was everyone's mom.

[12:46] Mike Abrams: I remember that.

[12:47] Fergie L. Philippe: Yes.

[12:48] Fergie L. Philippe: I was dude, I was father, Grizzy was mom, Grizzy left us to start another cat litter.

[12:55] Mike Abrams: And now you come back and murder your ex-wife?

[12:58] Fergie L. Philippe: I think your production is dark.

[13:03] Mike Abrams: Our production is very scandalous.

[13:06] Fergie L. Philippe: Was so dark.

[13:07] Fergie L. Philippe: It was so, it was amazing.

[13:09] Fergie L. Philippe: I was so, I was so here for it.

[13:12] Fergie L. Philippe: But it was, I think the day we all decided that Grizzy was mom, there was so much, the moment after the Jellicle Ball, when she comes back, and it's right before the first memory before the intermission.

[13:29] Fergie L. Philippe: The first time we ran that sequence, there was such hatred in the room.

[13:34] Fergie L. Philippe: And I wish I was joking, but it was kind of the first time that all of us truly emotionally connected to what we were portraying.

[13:44] Fergie L. Philippe: We really were like, wow, this is a very different turn that we're making with these cats.

[13:51] Fergie L. Philippe: But I think we like it.

[13:53] Fergie L. Philippe: And yeah, so that was our family tree, essentially.

[13:57] Fergie L. Philippe: So there is the Grizzybelle O'Douderonomy, our together rumor.

[14:01] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[14:02] Fergie L. Philippe: But I've just had trouble with that one because I have trouble with him then picking her to win.

[14:06] Mike Abrams: Oh, yeah.

[14:08] Fergie L. Philippe: Our production was also problematic because O'Douderonomy was kind of a blinded idiot in terms of picking Grizzybelle.

[14:16] Fergie L. Philippe: We made it very clear that I don't want to answer a question too early, but then I'll just say this.

[14:25] Fergie L. Philippe: There was one cat that we as a cast decided should have gone.

[14:32] Fergie L. Philippe: And then O'Douderonomy picks Grizzybelle.

[14:36] Fergie L. Philippe: And there was a moment where everyone is like, are you sure?

[14:42] Fergie L. Philippe: And then the naming of cats is how I convinced everyone.

[14:46] Mike Abrams: So I'm assuming that's Gus.

[14:50] Fergie L. Philippe: We all fully decided that Gus should have gone to the Heaviside Layer.

[14:55] Fergie L. Philippe: This is usually my last question, but we're just going to flip the script today.

[14:58] Mike Abrams: Great.

[14:59] Fergie L. Philippe: Do you think it should be Gus?

[15:01] Mike Abrams: Me as a person?

[15:02] Fergie L. Philippe: For you as a person.

[15:03] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[15:04] Fergie L. Philippe: Absolutely.

[15:05] Fergie L. Philippe: Grizzybelle does not deserve.

[15:06] Mike Abrams: But you, you know, you're not going to sit here and try to change a show that's been around for 40 plus years.

[15:11] Fergie L. Philippe: So you just were like, oh, we're just going to stick with it and sing your song.

[15:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah, exactly.

[15:19] Fergie L. Philippe: I was like, I guess we're not going to try to do daring theater.

[15:22] Fergie L. Philippe: We're going to sit here and do the same old thing that we've been doing for years.

[15:26] Fergie L. Philippe: But no, I Gus fully.

[15:30] Fergie L. Philippe: Gus should go.

[15:32] Fergie L. Philippe: He has the most logical explanation when you break down everything about this show.

[15:39] Fergie L. Philippe: There's almost the only argument I've heard against it was Chris Furger, who played Gus in the 16 Revival.

[15:44] Fergie L. Philippe: And he said that he didn't think he had another life to live.

[15:47] Fergie L. Philippe: So he thought if he died, it would be over.

[15:50] Fergie L. Philippe: And I kept thinking that's just him telling himself so he doesn't get angry.

[15:56] Fergie L. Philippe: So he doesn't get angry that he's not there.

[15:58] Fergie L. Philippe: But that's like the only thing I can think about is that, like, maybe because otherwise I'm with you.

[16:07] Fergie L. Philippe: I don't know how you don't pick him.

[16:08] Mike Abrams: And that's not the angle I've taken, but that's...

[16:14] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, but that's the one that makes the most sense to me and most people.

[16:16] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[16:17] Fergie L. Philippe: I felt like there was another person that in my mind, I was like...

[16:23] Fergie L. Philippe: They also... I couldn't remember who the next person was.

[16:27] Fergie L. Philippe: Maybe it was Jelly.

[16:28] Mike Abrams: I don't think it was Jelly.

[16:29] Fergie L. Philippe: It's probably there.

[16:30] Fergie L. Philippe: It's usually Jenny.

[16:31] Mike Abrams: Jenny is the next part.

[16:33] Fergie L. Philippe: I could see Jenny.

[16:34] Fergie L. Philippe: We didn't make Jenny that much older in ours.

[16:37] Fergie L. Philippe: Jenny was pretty...

[16:38] Fergie L. Philippe: That's why she was generally pretty young in ours.

[16:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that makes sense.

[16:42] Fergie L. Philippe: It's usually the... because there's like three tiers of cat ages right in the production.

[16:48] Fergie L. Philippe: And so it's usually pretty much goes in that tier.

[16:51] Fergie L. Philippe: There's a Belle, Gus, Jenny, I think Jelly, maybe Bustopher.

[16:55] Fergie L. Philippe: But no one really argues for him.

[16:56] Mike Abrams: No one.

[16:57] Fergie L. Philippe: And then it goes down to the next tier.

[16:58] Fergie L. Philippe: And it's like, um, Tugger, Mistoffelees, Monkstrap.

[17:03] Fergie L. Philippe: And then it's like the last tier where it's Victoria and Eliza and all those like the kittens where it's like, yeah, they don't have any argument.

[17:11] Fergie L. Philippe: They know nothing.

[17:12] Mike Abrams: But I, yeah, there's a lot of ways to angle that.

[17:16] Fergie L. Philippe: So I'm glad that you're okay.

[17:17] Fergie L. Philippe: So your team got, so you're with me that the wrong cat dies.

[17:19] Mike Abrams: Oh, 100%.

[17:20] Fergie L. Philippe: Perfect.

[17:21] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[17:22] Fergie L. Philippe: Now, one thing that happened in the 2016 revival that, and again, this is like my only frame of reference is that in an intermission, Old Deuteronomy sits on stage the entire time.

[17:32] Mike Abrams: Did you have to do that?

[17:35] Fergie L. Philippe: No.

[17:36] Fergie L. Philippe: Okay.

[17:38] Fergie L. Philippe: I was quite vocal since day one.

[17:40] Mike Abrams: Did they try to make you do that?

[17:43] Fergie L. Philippe: They asked me and I was, I said, absolutely not.

[17:47] Mike Abrams: I'm glad you did.

[17:48] Fergie L. Philippe: I was like, no, I'm going to go backstage and get an intermission.

[17:52] Fergie L. Philippe: But also what should be noted is that conceptually our Old Deuteronomy was very different from how we, from how he's usually played.

[17:59] Fergie L. Philippe: You like the Ken Page version slash the Quentin Earl Darrington version.

[18:06] Fergie L. Philippe: I call that the mop.

[18:07] Fergie L. Philippe: That's like the mop Deuteronomy, um, how he's conceptualized.

[18:11] Fergie L. Philippe: But ours was very Silver Fox, very like almost Morgan Freeman-esque.

[18:18] Fergie L. Philippe: Like we made him, he's older, but he could still kick some ass if he needed to, you know what I'm saying?

[18:27] Fergie L. Philippe: Like he still has got the ability to go off.

[18:30] Mike Abrams: So you probably should have fought Macavity in that scene.

[18:34] Fergie L. Philippe: Like he didn't get kidnapped.

[18:35] Fergie L. Philippe: You like, you would have handled business if you needed to.

[18:38] Fergie L. Philippe: I would have handled some business.

[18:40] Fergie L. Philippe: Well, I think that's what made some of the Macavity stuff.

[18:46] Fergie L. Philippe: That's where we, I remember as a production were kind of trumped because there were a lot of moments where, um, Deuteronomy would have like the ability, like if there was ever the first couple of times, you know, we think Macavity is around, usually it's just Munkustrap and Rum Tum and Mistoffelees handling business, but in our production, it was just me and Munkustrap.

[19:11] Fergie L. Philippe: So, okay.

[19:13] Fergie L. Philippe: So they weren't even the other two, the two potential lovers were the two potential backstage doing backstage.

[19:21] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[19:22] Fergie L. Philippe: They were backstage handling the masses while me, me and Munkustrap, my oldest son, we handled everything.

[19:29] Fergie L. Philippe: We made sure everything was good.

[19:31] Fergie L. Philippe: Um, so the kidnapping was definitely one of those, like, we just have to, we just have, it's plot.

[19:37] Fergie L. Philippe: So we can't, we can't cut it.

[19:38] Fergie L. Philippe: We have to put it, you just got to make it happen.

[19:41] Mike Abrams: Did you do Growl Tiger and Griddlebone?

[19:45] Fergie L. Philippe: We cut it.

[19:46] Mike Abrams: Cut it.

[19:47] Fergie L. Philippe: Okay.

[19:48] Fergie L. Philippe: So that's not in the 16 revival or at least I don't remember if it was, it was like weirdly added to the new movie.

[19:53] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[19:54] Fergie L. Philippe: I still have to see the new movie.

[19:56] Fergie L. Philippe: I'm waiting for the right time.

[19:58] Fergie L. Philippe: I don't know if that time will ever come, but I will watch it sometimes.

[20:01] Mike Abrams: You will watch it in a similar state to when you watched the 1998 movie.

[20:06] Fergie L. Philippe: This is my recommendation.

[20:10] Fergie L. Philippe: And yeah.

[20:11] Fergie L. Philippe: And you'll, I feel like since you've been in it, you'll get more of an appreciation than what comes from it.

[20:17] Fergie L. Philippe: There are some artistic choices that might not have worked.

[20:21] Mike Abrams: Sure.

[20:22] Fergie L. Philippe: But overall it's cats with a little bit more plot and an extra song, you know, it's like, it really, it really is still cats.

[20:27] Fergie L. Philippe: And so I, it's like, it gets a lot of hate because it's, I think just like the musical, it's easy to poke fun at.

[20:33] Mike Abrams: 100%.

[20:34] Fergie L. Philippe: And the movie was even easier to poke fun at because there were a lot of, a lot of artistic, artistic choices and errors.

[20:42] Mike Abrams: Yeah, man.

[20:43] Fergie L. Philippe: Ripping, ripping skin off.

[20:45] Fergie L. Philippe: That's just a, you know, that's a real, that's a real daring choice to make someone rip off their fur.

[20:52] Fergie L. Philippe: You know, there were just some editing pieces in the very first week too, where there was just like a guy in a hoodie that wasn't like, forgot that he was supposed to be not in that shot.

[21:02] Fergie L. Philippe: And it was like, probably like some sound engineer or something like some, you know, some guy doing something staging and then all of a sudden they start doing and it's like, Oh no, he's still there.

[21:11] Mike Abrams: I also heard there is a, a butthole edit if that's not...

[21:18] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, there's, um, that got some traction with, what was it?

[21:20] Fergie L. Philippe: Um, Seth Rogan.

[21:21] Fergie L. Philippe: I think somebody like really went after it and there is a cut of that.

[21:27] Fergie L. Philippe: There's, there's a lot, I mean, Andrew Lloyd Webber kind of stepped away and kind of backed out of being involved.

[21:31] Fergie L. Philippe: Jason Derulo said that he thought it was going to change the world.

[21:36] Fergie L. Philippe: So like there's, there's a lot.

[21:39] Fergie L. Philippe: I just think like kudos to all those people for getting paid.

[21:42] Fergie L. Philippe: Like, you know, the movie didn't, but all the actors did.

[21:49] Fergie L. Philippe: Hey, listen, the actor, uh, Andy Blankenbuehler, he got his check and you know, they were all good to go.

[21:55] Fergie L. Philippe: And I think it's going to make some money in the, in its longer life.

[21:59] Fergie L. Philippe: I think Universal has known exactly how this is going to go.

[22:05] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[22:06] Fergie L. Philippe: Okay.

[22:07] Fergie L. Philippe: So let's also, let's talk about some other Old Deuteronomy questions and rumors.

[22:13] Mike Abrams: Did you think you even had a chance to be picked for the Heaviside Layer?

[22:19] Fergie L. Philippe: Oh, that old dude gets to go?

[22:22] Fergie L. Philippe: No, no, no, no, no.

[22:24] Fergie L. Philippe: Absolutely not.

[22:25] Fergie L. Philippe: Like you don't even think you're in the running.

[22:26] Fergie L. Philippe: I think the complicated thing with old dude's position of being sent to the Heaviside Layer is that because he's the one who picks it, he would have to dethrone himself, uh, from the, from the litter.

[22:34] Fergie L. Philippe: He would have to dethrone himself as litter.

[22:46] Fergie L. Philippe: So I believe that when he hands the crown over to Munkustrap to officially take over, he's done.

[22:54] Fergie L. Philippe: And then, you know, it's up to Munkustrap whether or not he sends his father to the Heaviside Layer.

[22:59] Mike Abrams: Interesting.

[23:00] Fergie L. Philippe: And that's a whole other musical.

[23:01] Mike Abrams: That is.

[23:02] Fergie L. Philippe: Cats, cats too.

[23:03] Mike Abrams: I've heard a lot of variation of cats too already on this podcast.

[23:08] Fergie L. Philippe: That is.

[23:09] Fergie L. Philippe: So I, I kind of agree.

[23:10] Fergie L. Philippe: I just didn't think it's that he has a chance, but I think it's an interesting question of like, why not?

[23:16] Mike Abrams: Why not?

[23:17] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, it's, it's true.

[23:18] Fergie L. Philippe: And it's also, it then goes into the question of whether or not is, is Deuteronomy aligned with godliness?

[23:24] Fergie L. Philippe: Like there has to be that conversation, especially since he has a biblical name.

[23:28] Fergie L. Philippe: Like there's just one of those things, because that's also not really established whether or not Deuteronomy is like a genuine, like figure amongst these cats, or if he is like a representative from the Heaviside Layer that has been sent to earth in cat form to pick.

[23:43] Fergie L. Philippe: And is the Heaviside Layer actually a place or is it a reborn?

[23:49] Fergie L. Philippe: Which is another, yeah, another piece that's kind of argued.

[23:53] Mike Abrams: I never thought about that.

[23:55] Fergie L. Philippe: Because there's a rumor, and I don't remember where I heard this originally, it was some, you know, video is that there was a place in the Winter Garden Theater, or there was a place like in the attic or in the, the balcony or somewhere up there that they kind of called the Heaviside Layer.

[24:09] Fergie L. Philippe: And it was just a place up in the theater.

[24:14] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[24:20] Fergie L. Philippe: I could be totally making that up too.

[24:21] Fergie L. Philippe: But I remember vaguely hearing that.

[24:24] Mike Abrams: That's hilarious.

[24:25] Fergie L. Philippe: I hope that's true.

[24:26] Fergie L. Philippe: There's a lot of pieces to that.

[24:28] Fergie L. Philippe: And like, I asked, I made up one that I know is not correct, but I think is fun.

[24:34] Fergie L. Philippe: Please tell me.

[24:35] Fergie L. Philippe: There is a 2016 cat that's called Peter that is played by Gus in the Bustopher track.

[24:41] Fergie L. Philippe: And it's just basically the name of a cat that dances in the beginning.

[24:44] Fergie L. Philippe: And it's a totally worthless character.

[24:46] Fergie L. Philippe: And it's always been my, like, why does it even exist?

[24:49] Fergie L. Philippe: Especially with all these crazy names.

[24:50] Fergie L. Philippe: Why is Peter just thrown out there?

[24:52] Fergie L. Philippe: So I'm thinking maybe because he's only in that first dance that maybe he's St. Peter and he's down there to kind of like scope things out.

[25:02] Fergie L. Philippe: And he actually is managing the Heaviside Layer and that's why he only dances the first number because then he's got to go up to greet Grizabella when she gets there.

[25:11] Fergie L. Philippe: He comes down.

[25:12] Fergie L. Philippe: He does a little jig.

[25:13] Fergie L. Philippe: Make sure everything's okay.

[25:15] Fergie L. Philippe: Gets everything started.

[25:16] Fergie L. Philippe: Everyone's good.

[25:17] Fergie L. Philippe: I got to go back guys.

[25:49] Fergie L. Philippe: I would buy that theory. I actually would very much buy a reincarnation theory. I think that would be a very, very relatable nine-cat life. Yeah, I have no way to verify it because Andrew Lloyd Webber ignores all of my DMs, all your media requests, where I want to ask him about this. So I have no idea to verify if that's just overthinking. I'm pretty sure the beauty of Cats is that there is no answer to 99% of the questions. It's just cats dancing and singing, and then that's it. You figure out the rest. Yeah, you solve the problem. And they tried in the movie to put some storyline in there, and we all know what happened. So it's like, they should just go back to not telling anybody anything that's happening and see what they come up with.

[26:39] Mike Abrams: Exactly. So let's talk about a couple other parts of the musical I know that you have strong opinions on. So I think you mentioned the moments of happiness.

[26:46] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, we got to talk about that. So what are your thoughts? What bothers you about it?

[26:52] Fergie L. Philippe: I wish I had thoughts. I don't know what that song means. I performed it, and it was upsetting because when we blocked it, the director said, "Fergie, you know, let's just talk." For me, I didn't see the 2016 revival, but in our production, they had all the cats come back out on stage, and I sang the moments of happiness to everyone. And so I'm singing this song, and she just goes, "So what does it mean? You know, you're an actor who does research. Tell me what you researched about this song." I was like, "Oh, I did, apparently." And I don't know what I said, for sure pulled it out of my ass. And it was something about positivity and happiness in the afterlife. And everyone thought I was being profound and that I was saying good things that I truly thought about.

And the worst part is, I couldn't remember what I had BSed for the future. So when I would go to perform it again, I still was just like rattling off who knows what. And the only direction that I remember getting was, I can't even remember the lyrics. That last line, the last line that he sings before the memory reprise comes in. He has one line, and all she said was, "I want you to just like flick off the line." Like, "Oh, well, you know, maybe it's that, maybe it's not." Which I remember saying to myself, "Doesn't that negate the seriousness that apparently is required of this entire song that I still don't know the meaning of?" And so I think it didn't bother me in the show. But my friend Daniel, who played Macavity in that 2016 production, I asked him one day, I was like, "Oh, yeah, what did you guys do when it came to the moments of happiness?"

He said, "Oh, we have no idea." And I said, "You're kidding." He goes, "No, we truly like, I'm sure Q had something in his mind, but none of us knew whatever was happening during that song. Yeah, and I don't know where to place it. I don't think anyone knows what that song's about. I'm sure someone, I'm sure, you know, help people. But yeah, Andrew, whoever's thought through it, maybe. I don't know. At this point, I'm not sure. I assume he's thought through any of it either. Any of it. He just hashed it out and then sent it in.

[29:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it is. It's an interesting place. It's an interesting kind of piece. Part of me wonders too, is like, does it just give you a chance to belt a little bit at that point? And like, maybe that was.

[29:48] Fergie L. Philippe: I'm like, that's great. We're not utilizing this character enough. Let's give him a couple of lines here to solo and then let's move on. And then let's move on, because I think right after that, it goes into.

[30:07] Mike Abrams: Doesn't it go into Gus right after that?

[30:09] Fergie L. Philippe: I think, I don't know. You're overestimating. I've not seen this full through all that many times. I've seen like bits and pieces over and over again, but that I've actually watched through.

[30:22] Mike Abrams: I don't think I know.

[30:23] Fergie L. Philippe: Well, so my whole argument has been, I don't know that much about Broadway in general. I'm a fan, but I could tell you, and you can see here, I'm wearing Pacer stuff. I got Indiana University behind me. I got sports stuff all over here. That's what I know. But I do also appreciate writing. And so when I saw this, I was like, there's no, someone jacked up this writing. And that was where all of my humor around it and poking fun at it came from. And then when we started doing this, I'm still like, I couldn't tell you the first thing about any of the dance numbers and the singing. I can't sing. I can't dance. I can't tell you any of this stuff. And so what I do know is that how I interpreted what I witnessed and how I would rewrite some of these things.

And that's about it. And so when you get to the moments of happiness or stuff that's not related to any of the characters to where I think it's related to their performance to be considered, I'm just like, yeah, the Jellicle ball, it's an orgy. What else do you need to know? I don't know what else is... I don't really understand the point of the rest of it besides it's an orgy. Whereas I interpreted this as a musical competition. And so when they're not, when a cat's not giving their performance as their audition for dying, the rest of it is just like filler on a competition show. It's like the little pre-story about them. You get a little early Grizabella where they're going to talk about her rough life before she does her performance. And that's how I look at this whole thing. And so all this, the Jellicle ball, the moments of happiness, it's just like Terry Crews on America's Got Talent doing some filler in between.

[32:07] Mike Abrams: That's exactly it. It just seems like a themed dance concert. That's really, and when I say like, not necessarily through lined, but themed, like this year's dance concert is Cats. And that's exactly what I think the musical is. Yeah. It's your chance to try to win. Give your best effort. Feel free to do it with a partner if you want, you know, like you can and everyone kind of, yeah. And that's it. There's no more to it. See you at the end.

[32:39] Fergie L. Philippe: And then the wrong, you know, and in that case, I don't even think Gus is the choice. I think Gus is a choice. If you angle it from like, he's older, he's deserving, he's one. I think you, you pair a couple of the younger cats who have some great performances and send them up. Mungo Jerry and Rumpel Teaser. If it's just based on talent and skill alone, they win. So that was hands down. When I left the first time I saw it, the only thing stuck in my head was that song. Mungo Jerry and Rumpel Teaser. Couldn't stop thinking about it. The whole dance number was like incredible that these two were able to dance and sing that number, like do that entire performance in sync together. And then say, but I, I picked Tugger and Mistoffelees together. I want to pair those two. Those are two of the most entertaining numbers in the musical. Yes. They're showstoppers, both of them, like early and late.

[33:34] Mike Abrams: And that's, that's who I'm picking. Our Tugger was the drag queen.

[33:38] Fergie L. Philippe: Okay. Not the rock star. So drag queen, not rock star. It was a, it was a Beyonce inspired drag queen. Because our Tugger, Austin Henderson, who's a brilliant singer, Beyonce is his biggest inspiration. He really, I mean, he walked into that rehearsal and saw his character design and he was like, "Wow, that wig is really luscious." And they were like, "Oh, that's right. We're going to make it a good old like Beyonce drag queen." I don't believe we said transgender. I think we specifically were on drag queen. And that's the route we went and hey, he killed it.

[34:21] Mike Abrams: I was going to say, I like that. You can, that kind of still keeps the persona of like, that's like confident and yeah. And just like owns that, that character.

[34:26] Fergie L. Philippe: It was the, before in London, before they brought it back to New York, they did some like hip hop rapping street cat and they changed the song. I was like that to me misses, but I could have a transgender, like a drag queen version. I think that'd be great.

[34:48] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah. It was a hit. I mean, and they put like, you know, like pop dance moves. Like I, I was skeptical. I'm not even going to lie, but I mean, it worked, it was so good and he did a great job.

[35:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah. We had a great time with that. Did you, what other changes did you make?

[35:05] Fergie L. Philippe: So you've got Morgan Freeman, Old Deuteronomy. You've got, oh man. It was really political. We had the Peaks and the Pollicles be the Republicans and the Democrats straight up. Like we were not shy about it. It was the elephants and the donkeys and they were dog toys. They were like, we made like dog toys. Right after the election. Right. Like, I mean, it got even more direct. We had a whole, we had a subplot that Macavity was not that Macavity was a secret agent for Trump cat. We are the president of the cats was a Trump cat and Macavity would took me originally because Trump cat was going to deport all of us. We had a whole giant newspaper with a picture of Trump cat on it and everything. It was wild.

[36:05] Mike Abrams: That is a different version than what I saw in 2016.

[36:12] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, man. It was definitely, it was new. It was different. We were very interested by it. It fits my reality TV narrative.

[36:19] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it kind of was, we definitely kind of played to that. Oh, we also definitely made Mistoffelees gay. Like we made that very clear during his number. I feel like 90% of the numbers of versions of Mistoffelees I've ever seen are play that up are like, "Hey, he's gay. Just so you know." I think that kind of the direction we pulled out like a rainbow flag and decide we made a whole thing of it. So it was, it was very progressive. It was a very, let's make this as progressive a Cats as we can. Which was fun, fun way to like take a show that's been around for a long time and give it not like major to where you're going to anger the true fans, but give it just enough to like, still have like some personal, yeah, some personality from your cast too.

[37:05] Fergie L. Philippe: Well, that was kind of the crazy thing is that when obviously when they announced that we were going to be doing Cats next year, like none of us were excited. All of us were quite upset, but about a week into rehearsal, we realized this was going to be the most fun show we ever had the chance to do. And it was, we had such a fun time doing the show. It was so, and we were, we all committed so much. That was the biggest part is that all of us truly did our best to commit to the full scope of being a cat. We had many days talking about cat posture, cat technique, and all these different, and we were, we were dead serious about it. We kept each other honest with it and we had a great time. We really did. I loved it. That was my favorite show I did at Elon. That's not even a joke. I really had such a fun time doing it.

[37:59] Fergie L. Philippe: She goes to start another litter. Like, she goes to start another family. She cheats on me and has a whole other cat family and then tries to come back because she realizes it was wrong.

[38:30] Fergie L. Philippe: And that's the messiness of Grizabella in our story. Because then she leaves the family she created to come back to her OG family. And we're like, no. And then you reward her. Then I reward her by letting her go to the Heaviside. Memory is her apology.

[38:55] Fergie L. Philippe: So I think 2000, I think she's like, I don't know what the year was, I'm drawing a blank now, but she was the shaved head Britney. And like, she, that's what happened. She, she was like, she kind of did, she, something went off the rails. She was, you know, she was the star, the superstar at everything. Something went off the rails. So she kind of disappeared. She kind of left. There were some problems, you know, whether it's drugs or whatever it was. And then this was her, like, she got her life back in order and that's why she comes back. And I think she comes back the first time, not back in order. You know, it was like the, probably like that first Vegas show when it was like, stuff wasn't really back together. But like, we're going to do it anyways. And then it's like, now, now we're back. And that's like when she belts "Memory."

[39:50] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I agree with that. I think that's a, I think that's 100% correct. But your group took such a, such a, an intense look at this. You like said, Hey, she's going to go, go have a second family. And then she's going to ditch that family and come back.

[40:08] Fergie L. Philippe: We were like, what will social workers see and go? Yes, I love this show. And that was the plot. Like a lot of true crime. Like we can make this the true crime podcast. Yeah. You have a husband killing a wife. You have a disappearing family. You got a lot going on.

[40:29] Fergie L. Philippe: A lot going on. I don't think dysfunctional is the correct word, but it's, it's a lot. There's, there's a lot of stuff to figure out. Yeah. In one weekend, in the middle of Elon, North Carolina, you've got to solve all of the hurdles problems there. All right, let's do some, a couple rapid fire. And I have, I've thought through a lot of these. So I'm happy to kind of talk, talk through them with you. So if you were not going to be Old Deuteronomy, what other cat would you want to play?

[40:50] Fergie L. Philippe: Um, I honestly would have loved to have done Munkustrap narrator. Other second, if you're not first in charge, you won't be second in charge. I won't be second in charge. I still want to be in charge. Um, I also would have loved, I think Buster for Jones is hilarious, but then you got to do, and then you got to do Peter and St. Peter, which I would have done. I would have liked to have done like a, a multi-track that would have been fun. I think I would have had a good time with that. Um, for sure.

[41:27] Fergie L. Philippe: What is your favorite and least favorite cat? And it can be from your production, not person, but the actual cat. My, my favorite cat is Jellylorum. I love Jellylorum. I think she's just so sweet. And I love, I love what, what Jellylorum was in our production. Like, I mean, she's usually got this caretaker, but Jellylorum was kind of just like everyone's like mother figure. Like she was just a very sweet, um, very kind person. She gives up her chance to perform, which is like super, which I think is just so amazing. Yeah.

[42:02] Fergie L. Philippe: It's so beautiful. Um, and then my least favorite cat, I don't like Coricopat and what's the other one?

[42:16] Fergie L. Philippe: Alonzo?

[42:17] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah. The young brothers, basically.

[42:20] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah. I'm like, why? Why are y'all here? The kitten brothers.

[42:25] Fergie L. Philippe: Alonzo does in a lot of cases, dances like both of those, them dance potentially with Victoria during her coming of age.

[42:33] Fergie L. Philippe: Oh. So that's it. I really also think he just like, they made up characters and names because they were like, they want to do in the beginning and ending a lot of cats on stage. And so it's just like, we need some ensemble characters to just do it. Maybe I'm saying the wrong cat. Cause now I'm thinking Alonzo, our Alonzo was definitely Victoria's partner. And that, if that's the cat that I'm thinking of, that's a different cat. And I actually don't have a problem with this cat. Maybe it's not Coricopat, but there's two. There's like two kittens.

[43:07] Fergie L. Philippe: So there's a couple of sisters, there's Cillabub and Tantumile and a couple others. We're starting to get to the ones that are insignificant to my arguments. I know very little about them. I couldn't, I've always joked, if you put Alonzo in a line of all the cats, I couldn't tell you which one was which.

[43:26] Fergie L. Philippe: I couldn't tell you which one was which. Cillabub was the one who would sing the memory reprise.

[43:32] Fergie L. Philippe: Yes.

[43:34] Fergie L. Philippe: So I love Cillabub. It's Tantumile. That's who it is. So I think that's a twin with Coricopat maybe? I don't know. There's a lot. I think that's what it is. Coricopat and Tantumile, both of them. Useless.

[43:47] Fergie L. Philippe: What was your favorite song? Funny enough, like performing, what was my favorite? Skimbleshanks. The part that I remember very vividly being hard.

[44:04] Fergie L. Philippe: Turned you on the movie.

[44:09] Fergie L. Philippe: That I was like, this is not it. Your favorite one. But it was actually the one I had the most fun performing. And it was also because I just sat on the steps and watched everybody dance.

[44:18] Fergie L. Philippe: So you just got to watch them do it?

[44:19] Fergie L. Philippe: I just got to watch them do it while I clapped. I love doing that. I also love the Jellicle Ball. I love the Jellicle Ball. I think it's actually such a fun number. I love it musically. And I loved what we were able to do with it. And our production, Old Duke, got to dance a lot in it. So I had a lot of fun doing that.

[44:37] Fergie L. Philippe: That's cool. That's not usually brought up that much. And then it is kind of weird when you're just like, yeah, I love the orgy. The orgy was my favorite part of the musical.

[44:45] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[44:47] Fergie L. Philippe: Okay. If Alexander Hamilton and James Madison were cats.

[44:51] Fergie L. Philippe: Oh, Lord. Okay. Who would they be? James Madison would be Gus. That's for sure. And then Alexander Hamilton. You know, that's actually really funny because he would either be.

[45:13] Fergie L. Philippe: He would either be Macavity or Munkustrap. I get it. I get it. I had Madison as either Gus or Old Duke out of me. I just thought Father Constitution's got to be one of the old guys right there. But I had Hamilton as Munkustrap because with him being with everything you do with the treasury, I figured if any cat is handling the money, it's Munkustrap.

[45:43] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, you're right. I got that. I'll definitely take that. But I can see. What's your Macavity argument?

[45:49] Fergie L. Philippe: My Macavity argument is that he will do whatever it takes to just get what he wants. It also depends on, like, as a cat, what does Hamilton want to accomplish? Because if Hamilton is just being Hamilton, you know, he has so many different avenues. But when you make Hamilton a cat that automatically limits what his purposes in life. And so if it comes from a purely survival mode.

[46:20] Fergie L. Philippe: I feel like Macavity is a very viable option if it's just survival, especially from when after he gets off the island. Yeah, he'll break every law possible to make it happen.

[46:36] Fergie L. Philippe: I get it. And then last one, if you were quarantining with a cat, which one would you want to quarantine with?

[46:42] Fergie L. Philippe: Oh, if I was quarantining with a cat, who would I quarantine with? Which personality is going to be best for you? Probably Jelly. I need a calm presence. Yeah, it would probably be Jelly. I think you're one of the first people that said Jelly, but your reasoning makes a ton of sense.

[47:06] Fergie L. Philippe: Yeah, just like just like calm. Just like nice and calm. Has anyone said Demeter or Bambi?

[47:15] Fergie L. Philippe: Not that I can think of. Oh, well, I think somebody might have said it in terms of who they would want to play. But it was like they're also their best friend, like in the production with them. I see. I think it was a little skewed. A lot of the answers are Mistoffelees. Just high energy magic. Be fun.

[47:31] Fergie L. Philippe: That's too much. I can't do that in those quarters. That would drive me crazy. Who knows what you're quarantining with? You could be in a mansion like that, which is why I argued Bustopher. Because you're going to eat well, probably going to have a lot of money, probably going to have a lot of space.

[47:49] Fergie L. Philippe: You're actually very that's a good that's an astute observation. I absolutely never would have considered Bustopher. Everyone's always thinking about every time I talk to Broadway, it's like you're in your New York apartment. You're like, where would I want to hang with this person? And as I've been quarantining part of the time, not in New York, I'm like, you know, there's there's some space out here outside of Manhattan. We can have some fun with somebody.

[48:13] Fergie L. Philippe: Right. Exactly. All right. So we've already answered the most important question, which your team, Gus. My last question is just always how do we how do we get in touch with you? What else are you working on? Social media handles like how can people find you?

[48:29] Fergie L. Philippe: Oh, man. I'm mostly on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Fergsters95, which is F.E.R.G.S.T.E.R.S. 9 5. Yeah. I mean, as far as what I'm working on, you know, I'm mostly just trying to get through the days and doing a lot of writing. I do. In addition to being actor, writer, director, I'm also a puppeteer. I do puppet stuff. I'm just now kind of starting to use social media to get some of my puppet stuff out there as I start to conceptualize a little bit more and produce some more content for stuff. But hopefully within the next year or so, I'll be able to have a place where people can see all of my puppet stuff. But, you know, man, just right now, I'm just kind of waiting things out and just doing my best to get through the days. You know what I mean? But, yeah, I'm follow me and come be foolish with me on social media. I use social media for foolishness, pretty much what it should be.

[49:38] Fergie L. Philippe: It should all be a good time. Right. Exactly. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for for joining me and being an amazing guest. It was so fun to hear about your and your production. I wish I could have seen it.

[49:49] Fergie L. Philippe: What a ride. It was an experience. I hope someone bootlegged it.

[49:52] Fergie L. Philippe: Someone's in there in the audience. I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

[49:55] Fergie L. Philippe: Oh, I'm sure it's out there somewhere. Awesome. If I find it, I got you.

[49:59] Fergie L. Philippe: If you find it, send it my way and I would be my next plane ride. I'll put it up to my iPad and equally amount of people staring at me being like, why is this guy watching Cats? What is he doing? Yeah, I got you. I got you. Oh, my gosh. Well, thanks for having me, man. I had a great time. I had a lot of fun.

[50:12] Mike Abrams: Thanks for listening to this episode with Fergie L. Philippe on The Wrong Cat Died. The podcast Breakdown of the Catastrophe. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at TheWrongCatDied or check out our website, thewrongcatdied.com.