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[0:08] Josh Mitchell: Welcome back. We are here for the We Are Theatre podcast. I said that really weird. Why did I say that so weird this week? But guys, I'm here with one of my favorite theatre photographers in the UK right now. Danny. Hello, sir. How are you?

[0:20] Danny Kaan: Hello, I'm good. How are you?

[0:23] Josh Mitchell: Thank you so much for having me. So cool. Man, I am so excited. I have been following your work for what? Literally years.

[0:31] Danny Kaan: Oh my god.

[0:33] Josh Mitchell: Thanks. So weird, but so cool. Thank you. This is the first time Danny and I have actually spoken. Not over Instagram, guys. So this is your face. You guys will know Danny on Instagram as Danny with a camera. He is just an incredible photographer working in and around London Theatre at the moment. How did you get into photography?

[1:00] Danny Kaan: Good question. I bought a camera at one point when I was on holiday with my mom and my two little brothers. And then we had these papers every week in the Netherlands with all the products that were on sale, and I was in my bathroom in the caravan on holiday, and I was looking through this thing and I saw a camera on sale and I said, Mom, I'm gonna buy a camera. And she was like, absolutely not. You can save your money, you don't need a camera, this is not gonna happen. And I was like, Yeah, you know, it's nice if I have one, why not? And she was like, No, you know, it's 400 euro. You have to work so hard to get this, just don't do it. And I said, Mom, it's my own money. And then I bought it.

It was like a very old camera. I still have it here, just as a little souvenir to where it all started. And then I just started to take photos of different things. I remember that my first time in London was with school, but then the first time I actually went to London with my friend, I brought the camera with me, and I have a hard drive with some pictures on there, and it's literally like the Tower Bridge, but only half of the Tower Bridge is on there because I didn't even know how to take a picture, and the Big Ben is on there, but the sky is way too bright, and like it's awful. And then I just went to open performances and stuff because my biggest passion is musical theater. So I just took it to West End Live and we have a Dutch version of the West End Live as well called the Musical Sing Along, and we voted to Olivier Awards performances in Covent Garden in London.

So I just always took my camera there, and then at one point Carrie Hope Fletcher shared my pictures of the Olivier Awards on her Twitter. And then I was like, Oh, you know, people really like the work that I do, and then I just really started to grow in there, and I watched a million YouTube videos on how to set your settings and how to edit and how to make your, like sometimes when you take a picture of something, like for example, the sky with the Big Ben, I was like, How can I make the sky more blue in the back? So I just did YouTube tutorials and stuff, and I did all of that, and yeah, that's basically how it started with just taking pictures randomly at events and stuff.

[3:39] Josh Mitchell: I feel like that's like I do a little bit of photography as well, and that's exactly what I do. Like, what settings do you use for this setting? Like what should I need to do to get this? How do I affect the lighting like this? And then like editing, like what do I need to change in this to like, yeah, YouTube is your best friend, guys, if you start.

[3:43] Danny Kaan: Yeah, YouTube is the best, but it's the hardest thing as well because sometimes I have people messaging me as well and they are like, Oh, so I'm gonna do this concert, what do you think my settings should be? And I'm literally like, I have no idea because I play around at the like you never know how much light there is gonna be, you never know how many people are gonna be on stage, so it's really hard to just be like, Oh yeah, shoot on this because it might be way too dark or it might be way too bright.

[4:26] Josh Mitchell: You never know.

[4:27] Danny Kaan: Yeah, exactly. And like they might have a blue light, but the blue light might be a really dark blue light or a really light which are two completely different. Yeah, and there might be a red light and you want to quit your job because red lights are awful. It's funny because scrolling through your Instagram feed, there's like a ton of red light, you know?

[4:27] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[4:27] Danny Kaan: But that's the editing. That's like because it's like orange and then I make it more red because and that's the thing I spoke with two weeks ago or three weeks ago. I did Right of the Arts and it was a charity concert with loads of dancers and stuff, and then I spoke with the lighting designer and he was amazing. He did such a great job with all the performances, and then there was one song related to Moon Roosevelt and he made it red, of course, because that's like the color of the show. And I came to him afterwards and I said, you know, thanks for doing this. And he said, Oh, I forgot, I forgot the red is an awful color, blah blah. And then he just didn't do it anymore for the rest of the performance. So I was like, this is amazing.

[5:32] Josh Mitchell: Oh man. So much techie stuff. You guys that don't understand what we're talking about, it's just hilarious. Carrie Hope Fletcher kind of started it all. Shout out, Carrie. Thank you.

[5:48] Danny Kaan: Yeah.

[5:49] Josh Mitchell: Getting to where you are now, 34,000 followers on Instagram, doing behind-the-scenes shots on the West End and Broadway. How did you build your profile to be able to connect out? Like, how did you, let's say, network with all the artists in London to get to the point where you are now?

[6:12] Danny Kaan: So it all started with the fact that years ago, I mean, I'm Ariana Brown's biggest fan. Well, I mean, I say that, but yes, I am actually. I went to one of her shows and I took my camera with me. And I took some pictures of her concert, and then they basically went viral. So they were literally in magazines all over the world and stuff. But the thing is, I couldn't say it was me who took them because I wasn't the official photographer, so like I didn't have the rights to have them. So that was really cool, and that kind of started my following on Insta. And then I think like I remember that I went to Paris with one of my friends just for a weekend fun, and I remember that I said to him, if I have 5,000 followers at the end of this weekend, I will buy because we really wanted to buy nice cakes from a store, but they were so expensive.

So I was like, I'm definitely not buying this because I can buy 20 of them in just the supermarket. And then I remember that I said to him, if I reach the 5,000 followers, I will buy us a cake. And then literally an hour before we had to catch the train back, we reached, I reached the 5,000 followers, so we had to go to the store and buy these cakes. This was like a nice celebration in the train back home. But like, I mean, I really don't care if I have one follower or if I have 10 followers or if I have 34,000, like it really doesn't make a difference for me at all. Like I don't use my Instagram as my portfolio. But it was just a really cool thing that it happened. Like I started my account like a month before that, and then until I posted that picture of Ariana, literally in one weekend, so many people got to see it, and like my reach was insane, and I was like, Whoa, this is crazy what's happening.

And then Selinda Schoonmaker, who is a Dutch musical performer, she was Christine in Phantom of the Opera, and I asked her if she wanted to do a photo shoot backstage, and so we did, and then because she shared them on her social media, people kind of started seeing that I was like not just someone who was taking pictures, but actually someone who like was able to come in the dressing room and take some pictures around there and was like a more like also nice chatty vibe, I think, and not just like because a lot of photographers are just like a photocopher and are just like doing their job and stuff, but I also really like chatting and just talking and just like having a nice vibe and stuff. So I think that really helped in doing that.

[9:00] Josh Mitchell: So then more people from the cast of Phantom messaged me and asked if I wanted to do that with them, which was really cool. And it's so funny because I actually should share this in one day. But my friend Annique, who is one of my best friends for the rest of my life, she used to be my assistant, so I literally I don't know who I was or what I thought, but I even created an email for her called Anik at Denikan. And then she emailed people, and then as soon as people reached out to me in my DMs, then she sent them an email and she was like, Hi, it's Anik here, I'm Danny's assistant, blah blah blah. Then he would do this, and then it would do this, and then if you share pics on social, then Danny would love to be credited in this way.

And I literally I don't even like the fact the pictures are shared every minute of the day, and like I'm never credited and stuff, and I don't mind because it just happens for the past three years now. So the fact that she wrote it in this email is just ridiculous, and just like why was I like this? Who did I think I was? I wasn't nothing. And then I reached out to some producers as well. So, for example, Fame Productions who did loads of stuff at Sadler's Wells, which is kind of the 54 Below from New York, and Sadler's is just so nice, and it's just wonderful things are happening there. And then I reached out to them, and I reached out to Lambert Jackson Productions, and I reached out to West End Does, and I just basically said, like, I'm looking for more work because I just want to improve my skills, I want to learn more about photography.

Is there any way I can photograph one of your events? And I think I just was there at the right time because they didn't have anyone, and like there wasn't someone who was doing that kind of things. Like every time when I was in Sadler's, there was no other photographer. And Lambert Jackson and West End Does started at the time that I reached out to them. So I was there at their first event, and yeah, I just think that really helped. And then because I did all these things, people started recognizing my face, and I'm always wearing the pink cap because it's just the easiest thing. So people just started to recognize me from that way, and yeah, I just got to know people better and better, and then they saw on my Instagram that I had like a following there as well, so they just took me more seriously, I think, and then yeah, now we're here.

[11:29] Josh Mitchell: Now we're here. Such a cool story. Like, I feel like we're on similar paths, just in different kind of categories of creative media, like you're shooting, I'm recording, like it's a matter of getting out there and asking, like, you'll never know what you're gonna get.

[11:49] Danny Kaan: There's nothing to lose, yeah.

[11:50] Josh Mitchell: So yeah, I don't like the times that I messaged the PR on Broadway, for example, to photo shoot with Sara Bareilles when she was in Waitress, and I was so close to getting there. And then I'm really like by the time, well still, I'm like really nervous to like really push people in like, but I know I mean you kind of have to do this, but also you want to keep your name in a nice vibe. But I remember that in New York the last time I was there, no, the time before the last time I was there, literally I had the phone number of the PR lady from Waitress, and I've emailed with her like a million times, and we were so close. And then in the week I was there, she didn't reply anymore to my emails, but her phone number was in the emails as well.

And I remember that Annick again, Annick, she called the PR lady and she pretended to be me. So she was like, Yeah, hello, it's Debbie. And I still see her sitting on the bed in the hotel room pretending to be me. But then like the photo shoot was all set and done, but then in the end, the manager of the Waitress building, I think it was the stage manager. He didn't want to do it in that week, yeah. So in the end it didn't work, but like the amount of times that I tried things that doesn't work, but it's fine, like other things will work, and like some things won't work.

[13:17] Danny Kaan: And I think if you're afraid of hearing no, you'll never get anywhere. And that's like exactly like we probably asked a hundred people to do something, and we'll get 20 yeses and the rest noes. Like you just gotta flow with the yeses, and then eventually word will spread, and those people will be like, "Oh crap, yeah, you asked me to do this. I'm keen now. Do you want to do it?" And I'll be like, "Yeah, exactly." Like, yeah, it's all about just opening the door and planting that seed of let's do this. Um yeah, you're totally right. Yeah, that's how it works.

[13:50] Danny Kaan: This is so good. Um, so moving from the Netherlands to London, what spiked that decision for you?

[13:57] Danny Kaan: Um well, in the Netherlands we have theatre as well. Um but it's how am I gonna say this nicely? Um, it's not from the same quality and it's not on the same scale as it is here in London. Um and again, Annick used to live in London, and I literally I came to visit her well twice a month, so I was in London so many times, and every time now when Instagram and Snapchat do like the memories from so many years ago, it's literally every weekend it's like hi London, uh and then bye London see you next week. It's just it's great. I literally I don't know how I had the money or how I lived my life, but um it's just it's great. I literally I was so often in London. Um, and then because I started to know people more, and because like sometimes when I did a photo shoot, I literally like I photographed Jason Robert Brown at the London Palladium, but literally flew on Wednesday in the morning, had to take off my day of work in the Netherlands.

I flew in the Wednesday morning and I flew back in the Thursday morning to start work on the Thursday again, just to have like one day off, and like that happened more often, and I missed out on things that I really didn't want to miss out on. Um so I was like, you know, maybe it's time for me to do that as well.

[15:20] Danny Kaan: But I remember that when Annick moved to London, like I think seven years ago now, that I said to her, "Whoa, I'm so proud of you. I could never do that in my life. How can you do that?" Um, it's crazy to leave one country and all your friends and your family in one part and then move on to a country where you don't know anybody, and like it was so weird. And then so many years later, I did exactly the same.

[15:45] Danny Kaan: Um, but I think the point in me was um I was I had a really nice job, and I really liked my job that I used to do in the Netherlands. So I studied marketing, so I had a marketing job in the Netherlands, um, and I really liked that. Um, but I did it for two, three years by the time. Um and um because of like personal reasons of one of my colleagues, I had more responsibilities in the job, but then she came back in the job that she had, so my responsibilities went back to where I basically what my job was. Um and it was nice and I was fine with that. But then I really wanted to do more creative stuff as well.

[16:24] Danny Kaan: Um so I tried to get another job in there, but like I mean, there wasn't a job, so I tried to create a job for myself there. Um but it was like one of the biggest companies we have in the Netherlands, so you can't just really create a job for yourself when you're 21. So um that didn't work out, and then I was like, you know, I think it's just time for a change for me, and then I moved.

[16:48] Danny Kaan: Cool, and now we're in London.

[16:51] Danny Kaan: And now we're in London, and I'm never moving back to the Netherlands.

[16:54] Danny Kaan: So um getting into I'm just constantly scrolling through your Instagram feed, and it's just filled with like incredible people um that you've shot, and obviously a collective of people that you continue to shoot with over time. Um I think that's the the nicest part of my job that I have this connection with people now, and then you see them so often.

[17:21] Danny Kaan: Yeah, and some of them became my friends, which is also the weirdest thing because it's like people I've like looked up to and people I was when I used to live in the Netherlands, like for example, Rachel Tucker, like I literally day sat to see her last show in Wicked. I was there at 4 a.m. to get my tickets at 10 a.m., and now she's calling me. Like, it's the weirdest thing. Like you just don't think you see someone like message you to check in on you, and you're like, "Oh, yeah, forgot about that."

[17:53] Danny Kaan: Yeah. Whoa. It's so weird. Like, yeah, I can't believe it.

[17:59] Danny Kaan: Um, I discovered you through Six.

[18:04] Danny Kaan: Um, so let's let's go down that just while I'm like scrolling through your Instagram feed here. Um obviously you've worked with the OG girls from Six.

[18:16] Danny Kaan: Quite a lot.

[18:17] Danny Kaan: Yeah.

[18:17] Danny Kaan: Uh quite a lot.

[18:20] Danny Kaan: What uh how did that all start for you with the with those girls getting to work with them the way you have?

[18:28] Danny Kaan: So I mean I saw Six before the hype really started. So I saw Six on um when it was on their little tour, and then they came in London for I think two months or whatever it was. I saw it then um with my friend Sophie, and I really liked the show. I was like, this is such an amazing show. Um really liked it. I love the fact that I remember that like they say it's a 75-minute show, and it started at eight o'clock and it finished at quarter past nine, and I was like, this show is 75 minutes, starts on time, the girls are amazing. This is like literally this is insane.

[19:07] Danny Kaan: Um, and then afterwards, that show, it wasn't like a press night or something. Afterwards was a QA as well. Um, and I stayed for that, like only 20 people stayed for that. So I didn't really understand why, because people who saw the show really loved the show, and I was like, "Why do you not stay to like hear more about how it is for the girls to do that and stuff?" And that was just really interesting, and I was like, "Whoa, it would be so nice to know more about these girls and to maybe shoot with them one day." But then they went on tour and stuff, so it didn't really happen.

[19:37] Danny Kaan: Then they came back to the arts for like a few months, but didn't they didn't know it was gonna be for that long. So I saw it again. Um when they came back, I think in the end of February, beginning of March. Um and that was before the hype was there. So rush tickets were literally the easiest thing to get, like it was going to the supermarket and get a bread, it's always there, yeah.

[19:59] Danny Kaan: Um so I did that, and then I saw it again the day after because I was like, "This is incredible." Then I saw it again the week after, then I saw it again the week after because the rush tickets were so easy, and it was literally like I think 25 pounds, so it was just so easy to get them, and then the hype started.

[20:19] Danny Kaan: Um, and I was like, "Oh, I didn't expect this to happen."

[20:24] Danny Kaan: Um, so then I didn't see it for a while. Um, but uh in April, I think it was April.

[20:30] Danny Kaan: I reached out to the PR. I knew one of the PR girls from another project that um she asked me for. So I reached out to her and I said, you know, it would be so cool to do a backstage photo shoot with the girls, blah blah blah. Um, I would absolutely love that.

[20:44] Danny Kaan: Um, and then we did that. Um, so that was my very first time that I actually met the girls. Um, and I just went backstage and they were doing their makeup and stuff, and they were just like, we just like were chatting and um we took some pics.

[21:01] Danny Kaan: Um, but then I had to leave because the how do you call this? The company manager, she uh said, "Okay, you have to until half an hour before the show, and then you have to leave." So I left.

[21:13] Danny Kaan: Um, and while I walked back, I was like, it's so sad because I don't really have any pics of them in their costumes. I just have them doing their makeup, which is really nice. Like, I really liked um like the vibe, but I just was like, you know, that's the really cool pics. So um it's fine. I shared them on the social. They started following me on on Insta. We just had like reply to stories sometimes and stuff, just like just what you do on Insta.

[21:40] Danny Kaan: And um then some of them, and with some of them, I mainly mean Natalie. She did like loads of different concerts, like she was always like a guest performer somewhere, and I was always there to photograph the concert. So like we had like a really nice connection.

[21:56] Danny Kaan: Um, and then Amy Atkinson was gonna leave Six, so I sent her another message, and I was like, you know, I would absolutely love before you leave the show to take some photos of you in your costume.

[22:09] Danny Kaan: So um she says, "Yeah, I'm totally up for that." And then that's the moment I realized that I shouldn't ask. I mean, should I say this in a podcast or not? Then I realized that I shouldn't ask the PR and press to do things. I realized that I should just ask the performer to do it because it's so much easier.

[22:28] Danny Kaan: Sometimes it's a way to get things done though. I know you heard a PR and you'll get a yes, and then they just won't reply because they get swamped after like the show launches, they get swamped with PR requests. So if you go directly to people and get them to ask, it refreshes, and then oh my god, we got interest from actual people to get involved.

[22:48] Danny Kaan: Literally, but do it the proper route, guys. Crazy, it's crazy. Um, but nothing offending to PR and press because they do amazing work, but like, and I get it because the fact that I'm coming in their dressing room taking a few pictures isn't it's not gonna bring them anything. So like there's nothing in it for them at the time, like afterwards, they might use my picture for an interview or whatever, but at the time there's no benefit for them to let me do so, like why would they invest their time?

[23:17] Danny Kaan: But then I realized it, and then um I did my photo shoot with Amy, and I remember that she opened like the stay store there, and I walked in and she was like, "So I have this little plan," and I was like, "Oh, okay, I just expected to take a picture of you." And she was like, "So I have this plan. Um, me, Natalie, and A and Mea are every Sunday doing a little photo shoot with ourselves, but now you are here, so now you can take the picture of the three of us."

[23:44] Danny Kaan: Um so they had like this little costumes that they were wearing, um, with a Six jacket and like all black jeans and stuff, and then we just walked around the theater and we took a few pictures, and then I said, "Well, before we leave, I really want to take the picture in your costumes."

[23:59] Danny Kaan: Um so then um they changed into costumes, and we took a few pictures of that. Um so then like I really got to know them, and then that's how like how I spoke more with the other girls as well, and then every time when Six did something, I was there to photograph.

[24:15] Danny Kaan: Um, when they did concerts, I always was there to photograph. Um, and then like the original girls became a band called Seven. Um, and I'm always there when they do something, so yeah, it's it's all really cool.

[24:29] Josh Mitchell: That's sick.

[24:30] Danny Kaan: It's just literally the epitome of just ask the question. Just try and get your foot in the door.

[24:34] Josh Mitchell: It's literally I like the amount of DMs that I've sent to people with like, "Oh, shall we do a backstage shoot?" Like, it's insane.

[24:44] Danny Kaan: Yeah.

[24:45] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[24:46] Josh Mitchell: Um we can't do this interview without touching on the last year.

[24:52] Danny Kaan: Um yeah.

[24:54] Josh Mitchell: COVID is a photographer, a theater photographer.

[24:56] Danny Kaan: Um when there's no theater.

[24:59] Josh Mitchell: Um yeah. You went out of your way to find work and create work in other ways.

[25:05] Josh Mitchell: But what was that initial kind of um feeling for you when you found out cool theaters are shutting down?

[25:14] Danny Kaan: It was so weird. Um it was literally it was so weird. I remember um I had like the busiest time of my life by then. I but like also in a nice way. So I went to New York, um, and Annick again, my friend Annick, she was wearing this weird mask, this really big face mask, and she was like, "I don't want to catch this virus that's going around in the world." And I just I have a video on my phone that I'm literally filming her and I'm laughing that she's wearing this mask because I'm like, "Why would you do this?" Like it's the weirdest thing. Like it's just it's on the other side of the world, like it's not a big thing, you know.

[25:53] Danny Kaan: Um and for the whole week it was just fine. Um and then on the flight back she was wearing the mask again, and I just was laughing so much, just it was ridiculous. Um and then I was in London and I had like a few photo shoots. Um then I went to Greece to see the uh Greek production of Phantom of the Opera, um, because they had the new production there, and I knew some people in there, so I again I wanted to photo shoot with them. Plus, I just really wanted to see that show.

[26:19] Danny Kaan: Um and I went with my friends Caroline and Shamie, and um then we knew more about the whole thing, so we were like more conscious of things. So we were sanitizing our hands sometimes.

[26:32] Danny Kaan: Um when we were there we went for drinks afterwards with the cast and um they were saying yeah this big thing maybe our show has to close soon um because we don't know what's going on. It's so weird to be here and so like it was like a weird thing. Um but we were still like hugging and stuff. So it like that was like we were still not really scared. Um and then I was back in London and again I had so many photo shoots and it was just weird to be at a photo shoot because everyone everyone was like yeah have you heard this have you heard this have you have you heard that this is gonna blah blah and then um the Watson Stage award party happened and literally that was like nothing in the world was going on um because everyone was just like hanging around and partying and blah blah no one was talking about the whole corona situation.

[27:21] Danny Kaan: And then the day after I flew to LA um just for a holiday and um I was there and I remember that I um because in LA you have to do everything with uh an Uber or like with a taxi because everything is so far away. Um and I mean as you can probably hear my voice my experience with LA wasn't the best because LA I I have a very love hate relationship with Los Angeles. Unless I'm in Disneyland I'm like I don't want to be here yeah there's like I don't know I'm just more of a New York boy I think I just I had nothing with I'm with you. LA the airport's so far away from everything. Everything dirty and dingy. You get to New York, it's still dirty, but it's like a fun type of dirty in LA. Get me out of here.

[28:15] Danny Kaan: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly. But yeah, I was there and I was like I mean I had I just had a sore throat and I had a headache and um I was sleeping a lot and I just I didn't feel really well um but you know by the time I was like you know I've been in New York I've been in Greece I've I've had like seven photo shoots in two days every time when I was back in London. So I probably my body just was really tired and exhausting and then I went from being in winter to like being in summer because LA is always warm and like 25 degrees. So I just was like you know my body is just work and then I was in an uh in an Uber with um I did shared Ubers because they were so much cheaper and I was like you know I'm just not gonna waste my money on doing Ubers all the time so I just I had a shared Uber and then there was a lady who was like her name was Golden I think and she was like 70 something years old and she came in the Uber and she was like oh there are people in my Uber and I said uh yeah it's just shared Uber and she was like oh yeah I always just get my own Uber but this time I did a shared one but I really have to go to the hospital because there's something wrong with my arm.

[29:24] Danny Kaan: But you don't have the corona do you and I said no no no I'm fine I'm fine because like when you when like corona was like such a big thing and like we only heard stories that people are dying from it. So I was like no I don't have corona don't worry but I just I didn't really feel that well um and then that was just the Uber and for the entire trip, I was really ill. And then um, the day that I flew back, I was at the airport, and I literally I was so ill. Like, I the fact that I even made it to the airport was like disgusting. And then I was at the airport, and I um I was I sat there waiting to go through the security check, and then Trump came on the TV and stuff, and he was like, We're closing the borders from tomorrow, um, everyone has to fly home, blah blah blah blah blah, and it like people have to come home to America because there are no flights anymore.

[30:18] Danny Kaan: Um and then at that point, the airport was gonna change like everything. So they were gonna do checks, temperature checks, they were gonna check how ill people were. And I was like, I'm stuck in this country because I'm so ill, so they will definitely think, and I still thought that I didn't have corona, so I was like, they will still think that I have this weird thing and I can't go home and I have my life and I have photo shoots planned for the next week. So, how is this possible? Not even thinking that all of that would cancel anyway, and then um I I went into like one of these stores and I bought so many medicines and stuff. Um, and I took everything, and like I know that's not good for the body, but I took everything, and then they did the security checks in like the so when you have like the suitcase check and all that kind of stuff, they checked your temperature, and they did like one person, one person, one person, and then they took the person in front of me and the person behind me.

[31:18] Danny Kaan: And if they took me, I would have been still there. So I was so lucky that I got through, but like I still I feel I felt so ill, and then I did the flight, and I came back on a Wednesday morning and I had a photo shoot Wednesday evening, and I cancelled, and it was the first time in my entire life that I cancelled a photo shoot, and then I cancelled all the photo shoots that I had for that week, except the photo shoot that I had on the Sunday. Um that was uh Love of the Musicals at Golden Hall, and I did that, and I still didn't feel really well, but I was fine. Um so I did that photo shoot, and um then I remembered that my friend Tom, who is the producer of um Rolls Whatever play called me that evening as soon as I finished the photo shoot, and he was like, Danny, how close are you to the Turbine theater?

[32:06] Danny Kaan: And I said, Oh, I'm on the other side of the bridge. Why? And he said, My photographer just dropped out because of corona. Are you able to come? And then I came there, and literally half of the lineup had dropped out because they were scared of coming into London. Um, and then the next day the West End shut down. Um, and I just was like, How is this something that happens? Like, how is how is this a thing? What am I gonna do with my life now? Um, because like photography was my life, was my job. I I did it every day. And if I didn't do it, I went to watch the show, or I don't know, and like the social media agency that I do is also we only had entertainment customers, uh like clients.

[32:51] Danny Kaan: So we only did things for theater stuff, and I just was like, What am I gonna do with my life? And I just came back from a holiday, so I just missed out on like everything. And like the most annoying part was was that Sarah Brennas was in the Wages by the time, and I was in LA, so I couldn't go to her last show, but she extended with a week, so I was like, amazing, I can go and see her last week, but then her last week was cancelled and cut down. So I just was like, Oh my, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Um, this is by the way, a very long answer for your question.

[33:22] Danny Kaan: It's and completely fine. And um, so then I just was home and I just I didn't know what to do. I just wasn't on Zoom with Sophie every day for like eight hours, and we were just like talking about how weird it was. Um, but luckily we work for Lambert Jackson Productions, and they announced the Leave a Light on concerts. So as soon as the West End shut down, one week later, um Leave a Light on started, and they did three shows. So they did three shows per day. Um, so I had to watch all of them to make sure everything was well. I had to like live tweet and Instagram story about them. So I I watched for 10 weeks three Leave a Light on shows, which was crazy.

[34:09] Danny Kaan: Um, and so busy, and then I worked on the last five years and I worked on songs for New World. So I was really busy, but I had a break for my camera, which was the weirdest thing. I remember like being on the phone with my mom every week, and she was like, Oh, you know, you can just reach out to people and like go outside and do photo shoots, or you can do um, she even said like because a lot of people and she meant it in a good way, but I was like, I'm a theater photographer, I want to go to the theater and take photos. But she was like, you know, in the Netherlands, a lot of photographers who can't do their work now are reaching out to people who are losing someone because of corona, and because of all the rules, they all can't go to the funeral.

[34:48] Danny Kaan: So maybe you can become a funeral photographer and take like really beautiful images of funerals, and then people can still be like a part of the funeral because of your pictures and stuff. And she made it in a good way because so many people in the Netherlands were doing that because it was like just a way to still do your uh passion and do your photography jobs. Um but I said to her, Mom, I'm not that kind of photographer, I'm a theater photographer, I want people to sing, I want like nice lighting, I don't want sad people crying and like go to a funeral all the time.

[35:21] Danny Kaan: Um so like I didn't do that, of course. But then like little things started happening, and as soon as I saw an announcement on Watson States or on Twitter somewhere, I was like, Who is this producer and how do I get in the room? And again, that's how it happened. So tonight at the London Coliseum happened. I had never worked with these producers before, but I sent them a message, and I was like, Hi, I don't know if you filmed this already, but if you have to film this, I would love to be involved. I don't need any money, I just want to be in a yeah, exactly.

[35:54] Danny Kaan: And that happened, and I mean in the end, they were amazing producers, and they did pay me, which I'm really grateful for. Um and then the drive-ins happened, and I was like, Again, I well, I've I had spoken to the people who produced the drive-ins, but I had I never worked with them. So I again messaged them and I was like, Hi, I saw you were doing the drive-ins. If you want a photographer, please let me know. Um, and then intermissions happened in the summer as well.

[36:18] Danny Kaan: And um, I was like hired for that as part of the Digi Creative, so I did like the social media and the photography for it as well. So, like little things started happening, and I just reached out, like I again I just did what I'm apparently good at, and I just messaged and I was like, I need to be there, so let me be there.

[36:38] Danny Kaan: Yeah, it comes down to how passionate you are about things as well. Like, this is what you want to do, so you're gonna do anything you can to get what you need to do.

[36:49] Danny Kaan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I I would do everything. Like, and if even if like one producer won't reply, I will message the other person. Like, if it's a company of two people and one person doesn't reply, I will go to the other one. Like, uh, you will find me annoying, but I will get my reports.

[37:08] Danny Kaan: Yeah, but I just think that's how it is. Yeah, like it's like message to social media. Hey guys, who do I contact about this? This is what I want to do, this is what I'm connected to, this is what I want to do. I do it all the time.

[37:19] Danny Kaan: Like just throw it out there.

[37:21] Josh Mitchell: Oh yeah.

[37:22] Danny Kaan: We are like the legitimate same person.

[37:24] Josh Mitchell: Oh my god.

[37:26] Danny Kaan: But like the thing, what people think is they always think like, oh, you are everywhere. Like people are always asking you. And yes, I do get asked a lot for things, but like half of my work is me reaching out.

[37:38] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[37:39] Danny Kaan: Like I've been doing this for a year and a half now, and like I've only just had the first person reach out to me to have a spot on my show.

[37:50] Josh Mitchell: Like exactly.

[37:51] Danny Kaan: That's how it is. You have to reach out. This is what I can do for you. Like, hi, this is me.

[37:57] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[37:58] Danny Kaan: That's how it is. But yeah, people don't people always think that everything just comes to you because they don't see that you do like loads of work from the other side.

[38:09] Josh Mitchell: Like, like I spend hours per day to like reach out.

[38:13] Danny Kaan: Uh, but yeah, like that's the thing, like the amount of hours you spend on social media, not scrolling, but being like, hey, this is what I can do. Are you keen?

[38:22] Josh Mitchell: Like, yeah, exactly.

[38:24] Danny Kaan: And like, who is the best contact person for this? What is our Instagram? Do they follow me on Instagram? Do they follow me on Twitter? What is their email address? If if they have a phone number, what's their phone? Like, literally, it's it's yeah, it takes so much time.

[38:36] Josh Mitchell: And then the follow-up emails, after you send an email to somebody, they say yes, and you're like, hi, time frame, please. What like when are we gonna do this?

[38:43] Danny Kaan: Like oh so many hours, guys.

[38:47] Josh Mitchell: Like and yeah, for me in Australia as well, like seventy-five percent of my content is all done in the US or UK.

[38:55] Danny Kaan: So I late at night or I'm getting up early in the morning to record, like it consumes a lot of time to do what we do.

[39:02] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it?

[39:05] Josh Mitchell: Speaking of another time consuming project that you got up to while everything was going on in the world. Dear audience, you went and created a book.

[39:16] Danny Kaan: Yeah, I mean, never again. But yeah, it but it's yeah, it's the best project I've worked on in my life.

[39:25] Danny Kaan: It's crazy. And I think that showed like for myself, the connection that I have with so many people now, the fact that so many people said yes to do that. Um what's just it was so nice to to like have so many people wanting to be involved and even people who I have never worked with before, um, but who who are like who I knew and who knew me, but we just had never worked together or I had never photographed them, but then still said yes.

[39:57] Danny Kaan: Um, which was so cool. It's just like so cool seeing all the people and like it was just like a really, I found it like a really awesome idea, and then seeing all the videos of you like flipping through the book, I'm like, oh man, like it's just like a really unique idea that I don't think can be replicated.

[40:19] Josh Mitchell: Like it's definitely, uh, yeah.

[40:21] Danny Kaan: Like it could be done, but it wouldn't have the same impact, I don't think, that it did last year.

[40:29] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, no, true.

[40:30] Danny Kaan: And but I also, I might, I, I, well, I mean, I did it to just like have fun, but I also wanted to make a statement that, and like Sophie and I were both really passionate about it. But we wanted to make the statement that the industry is not just performers.

[40:46] Josh Mitchell: So that's why, well, I mean, I think it's like 60% performers and then 40% people behind the scenes or maybe even like 65 and 35.

[40:55] Danny Kaan: But that's also because we both knew more performers and there are more performers in the industry in general. But we really wanted to make like the point that it's not just the people on stage, there are so many more people in the building and in the office and like you, for example, as a theater content creator, like that's the, and people are always forgetting these kind of people.

[41:18] Josh Mitchell: It's like, and that's what this podcast is about. It's like, yeah, we know that shows have shut down, but when you think of a show shutting down, you think of those people on stage, you don't think of...

[41:18] Danny Kaan: Exactly. And like even though it's so sad for them and like I feel so sad that they've lost their jobs and they have things, but they can teach via Zoom, they are doing workshops, they are doing online concerts and stuff like a lighting designer can't just brighten up his garden.

[41:18] Josh Mitchell: And like, but that's the thing people forget about these things.

[41:51] Danny Kaan: But like, what is a lighting designer? He can't do anything because theaters are closed or a sound engineer, like what can he do? A costume designer, like a costume, like yeah, and that's this is the exact conversation I wanted to have at some point like here on this show is that like there's so, like a producer can't produce, like obviously some producers have produced shows, but like, yeah, with the amount of producers out there, there's only limited things that can be done.

[41:57] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, exactly. You also don't want ten million live streams on at the same night because nobody's gonna watch it anymore and there are too many things to watch at the same time.

[42:28] Danny Kaan: Yeah, and like photographers, like I was in another city the other day with one of my friends who did the photography for my brand, um, she does a lot of festivals and live and all that, and we just had a conversation about how there's no work and like that whole experience from her perspective and like it's very similar from a theater perspective, but like just having that conversation and hearing people being like, yeah, like this genuinely sucks is like, yeah, this is the conversation that isn't being had.

[42:28] Josh Mitchell: No, exactly, yeah. And then, yeah, and you always see in the news like about all those kind of things, but like so many people, I don't know, there are so many more people than people think there actually are. Guys, literally open up your program and flick past the cast pages and look at all the names of the people involved with the show.

[43:23] Danny Kaan: Yeah.

[43:23] Josh Mitchell: Producers to lighting design to everyone that works backstage. Sometimes the backstage area is even bigger than the people on stage.

[43:32] Danny Kaan: Literally, let me, I'm just having a look at Frozen Australia right now.

[43:36] Josh Mitchell: Frozen Australia? Have you seen that?

[43:36] Danny Kaan: I've seen it five times. It is so, oh my god.

[43:42] Josh Mitchell: Literally, when I was younger, I was on the holiday when I was fourteen, fifteen years old.

[43:49] Danny Kaan: No, maybe a bit older, maybe fifteen, sixteen.

[43:51] Josh Mitchell: And I was in, um, I was on holiday with my dads, um, and my stepsisters and my stepmom.

[43:58] Danny Kaan: And I was on my phone and out of nothing, I found Jemaric's "Defying Gravity" on YouTube and I wasn't even like looking for it, but like I just found it. I remember that I sat on the chair and I've listened to her "Defying Gravity" for five hours straight.

[44:14] Josh Mitchell: Did you hear her do "Let It Go" the other day?

[44:17] Danny Kaan: No, I did not.

[44:19] Josh Mitchell: Because I'm praying that I will see her one day.

[44:23] Danny Kaan: Oh, I cry every time. She does this like weird little rasp thing going into the very last chorus of "Let It Go" and you hear, oh, chills, literal chills.

[44:36] Danny Kaan: Um, just looking at you guys aren't gonna see the video, I was gonna show the video. But looking at this page, there's literally like sixty odd names of people that work behind the scenes on shows.

[44:49] Josh Mitchell: Like it's crazy.

[44:50] Danny Kaan: It's huge. Um, like there's people like me and Danny who are being around that and know how to work on a show and work in the offices on a show and work in the theaters in the box office, like cleaning, like there's a lot of people out of jobs right now.

[45:06] Josh Mitchell: But yeah, on the bright side, you guys have a date for London to be.

[45:16] Danny Kaan: Yeah, we are. I think my first thing that I actually have tickets for is, um, opening out of "Six" musical, twenty-third of May.

[45:25] Josh Mitchell: I hate you.

[45:26] Danny Kaan: I hate you.

[45:29] Josh Mitchell: I'm sorry. I was in, so "Frozen" was the first show, like big professional show to come back here and I had...

[45:30] Danny Kaan: But why has "Six" not reopened?

[45:39] Josh Mitchell: Because you had "Six."

[45:41] Danny Kaan: Venue, I, I d, I don't know.

[45:43] Josh Mitchell: There is a reason, uh, mainly recasting as well because we've had some people join other shows.

[45:48] Danny Kaan: Oh yeah.

[45:49] Josh Mitchell: So the fact that they've got a recast and kind of re-rehearse kind of I think pushed it back.

[45:55] Danny Kaan: Um, but they have set a time frame for the end of the year and they've got auditions.

[45:55] Josh Mitchell: End of the year?

[46:00] Danny Kaan: Yeah, end of the year sometime, but they've got auditions in the next month, so it could open any time. It'll just be a matter of locking in venues.

[46:08] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, okay.

[46:10] Danny Kaan: But yeah, so like I can't wait for you guys to be back in a theatre.

[46:15] Josh Mitchell: Like that of walking back through a door after like so long, it's just like I'm home.

[46:23] Danny Kaan: Yay.

[46:23] Josh Mitchell: Yeah. When I, um, so when we opened in, when was it? November, December.

[46:30] Danny Kaan: I, um, I went to the dress run of "Jamie."

[46:34] Josh Mitchell: Everybody's talking about Jamie.

[46:36] Danny Kaan: And that was, I saw "Six" the day before.

[46:38] Josh Mitchell: No, like the week before.

[46:40] Danny Kaan: But there's no interval in "Six." But I'm that kind of person who like as soon as the interval starts, I need a wee.

[46:47] Josh Mitchell: So I, when "Jamie" was like, and I just stood up as soon as the interval started, and I run to the toilet to go for a wee, and I just missed that.

[46:56] Danny Kaan: I remember being like, is it already the interval because I really need a wee? Like it's the weirdest thing, but I remember that I just went there and I was like, I just missed this.

[47:20] Josh Mitchell: Um, but if we can hit hubs left, right and center, we'll be back there.

[47:25] Danny Kaan: And that is what we're hoping for.

[47:28] Josh Mitchell: We will be back one day.

[47:30] Danny Kaan: Exactly. We will be, I mean at least we know that. Like we don't know when, but we will be back.

[47:36] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[47:36] Danny Kaan: I think this industry is too passionate not to come back.

[47:39] Josh Mitchell: We'll literally set up stages in the streets if you don't let us, we'll fight you.

[47:43] Danny Kaan: True. When you go over to, or the UK or to New York, whether it's gonna be your first show that you will go and see.

[47:49] Josh Mitchell: Who? I'd have to go to London and it'll be a toss-up between "Jamie" and "Juliet."

[47:59] Danny Kaan: Oh really?

[48:00] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, 'cause well the Australian production of "Jamie" got cancelled because of COVID, so it's not coming down here anymore.

[48:05] Danny Kaan: Um, so it'll be that or I don't know.

[48:14] Josh Mitchell: I think, I think they're the top two at the moment.

[48:17] Danny Kaan: Oh, that's interesting.

[48:22] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[48:22] Danny Kaan: Yeah, they're my top two.

[48:23] Josh Mitchell: Because we've got "Come From Away," "Frozen," "Hamilton" down here.

[48:27] Danny Kaan: Yeah, that's what I wanted to say. I thought you were gonna say "Come From Away," but then I realized that you have it, so yeah, and I saw it like a month ago, so like I'm good.

[48:38] Danny Kaan: So cool, like your theatres are just open.

[48:44] Josh Mitchell: It’s crazy, like, and I've been to, I didn't go to theatre in Brisbane when I was there, but I've been to theatre in Sydney and I've been to theatre in Melbourne and just like the vibes from the different audiences and just to chat to the cast 'cause like I've got friends all over the place is just like you can see the passion behind people and yeah, as much as like I can record conversations, guys, like seeing people's actual like love for what they do is just insane.

[49:13] Danny Kaan: Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it?

[49:15] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[49:16] Danny Kaan: Yeah, I'm with you.

[49:18] Josh Mitchell: That's so exciting. What are you most, uh, to wrap things up? Let's, let's put a wrap-up on this.

[49:24] Danny Kaan: Um, what are you most excited for when theaters do reopen?

[49:30] Josh Mitchell: Um, work-wise or to, to like watch?

[49:34] Danny Kaan: Both.

[49:36] Josh Mitchell: So work-wise, I, I love photographing the experience from people. So I, I like what I really like is just walking around the theater and seeing people living their best lives while they're watching a performance, and then try to capture that and try to capture the atmosphere of what's going on.

[49:58] Danny Kaan: So that was when theaters were opened last time, it was all social distance, and it was just, it felt really special to photograph like a half-empty auditorium, but people on stage are so happy to be back on stage, and the people who were in the auditorium were so happy and so excited.

[50:19] Josh Mitchell: But on the first hand, it looks like you're watching a concert that's only half sold out, so you are like, oh, they didn't sell really well.

[50:26] Danny Kaan: But on the other side, when you look better, you see that the people are actually living their best life.

[50:31] Josh Mitchell: So I really try to do that kind of thing.

[50:33] Danny Kaan: So I really like to do that and then just like walk around and run around and just complain about the fact that it's always so warm in a theater and that I'm, when I run that I'm so sweaty and stuff.

[50:45] Josh Mitchell: Like I can't wait to actually do that again.

[50:48] Danny Kaan: Um, and I know that like some really cool things are coming up, and I'm just so excited to do that kind of things, like things that have been postponed for a year, and like just like looking forward to like really cool things that are gonna happen.

[51:03] Josh Mitchell: Um, and to watch, I just can't wait to like be in the theater again and just like scream, um, like when I see something really cool, or like just like the funniest thing is I, I don't know if it's my language barrier or whatever it is, but like sometimes when a joke happens on stage, the joke doesn't fall on me.

[51:24] Danny Kaan: So it's like the joke happens and everyone is laughing, and then like ten seconds later, then there's me laughing because then I have to think of the joke, and like I just love seeing my friends being like, Danny, why are you laughing?

[51:38] Josh Mitchell: And it's just like it's fun.

[51:39] Danny Kaan: But there are also so many things that I laugh from, but nobody else in the whole theater loves.

[51:46] Josh Mitchell: But I, maybe it's because I'm Dutch, or maybe because I'm just a weirdo, but there are so many things that I laugh from that nobody else loves about.

[51:55] Danny Kaan: So it's just, I can't wait to have these experiences again and just like, I don't know, I just love these so much.

[52:03] Josh Mitchell: I love it, man. Danny and I could literally talk for another like three hours.

[52:07] Danny Kaan: We're gonna hit pause of the recording there, guys.

[52:09] Josh Mitchell: Thank you so much for joining us, Danny. I appreciate you.

[52:12] Danny Kaan: Thank you so much for having me. It was so nice.

[52:14] Josh Mitchell: Cannot wait to run around lining with you and tear things are back open.

[52:19] Danny Kaan: Um, guys, if you haven't already, make sure you are following this podcast wherever you're listening.

[52:25] Josh Mitchell: Hit that button right next to the play button because do it, so just do it.

[52:31] Danny Kaan: Hit the button.

[52:32] Josh Mitchell: I am so excited to be back and, uh, producing these episodes for you guys to listen to on a weekly basis.

[52:38] Danny Kaan: Make sure you're checking out all of Danny's ads down below his website, Instagram, Twitter, everything is down there.

[52:44] Josh Mitchell: So go click it. Um, and guys, we will be back next week with a brand new episode of the We Are Theatre Podcast.