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[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "When Lightning Strikes" — performed by Unknown artist ♪

[0:25] Jeryl Brunner: Hi, this is Jeryl Brunner, and you're listening to When Lightning Strikes, where we talk about the heart-thumping, tingly mic drop moment that led you to becoming an artist.

[0:38] Christina Papagjika: Christina Papagjika is a Tony and Olivier Award-winning producer who creates film, television, and theater. Just a few of her productions include the six-time Tony Award-winning Best Musical, Kinky Boots, and the film Lee Daniels'' The Butler, starring Forest Whitaker, Oprah Winfrey, and Jane Fonda. Some of her upcoming movies are Six Minutes to Midnight, starring Judi Dench and Eddie Izzard. She's also producing the movie Worth with Michael Keaton, Stanley Tucci, and Laura Benanti. The film had its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival and was acquired by Netflix and Barack and Michelle Obama's Higher Ground Productions. Worth will be released this September, and Six Minutes will have its worldwide debut on March 26th.

[1:41] Jeryl Brunner: Welcome, Christina. How are you?

[1:42] Christina Papagjika: Thank you so much for having me, Jeryl. I'm good. I'm good. How are you doing?

[1:48] Jeryl Brunner: I'm good. It's just wonderful to have you.

[1:53] Christina Papagjika: Oh, thank you so much. It's great to be here. And um, it's good to hear your voice.

[1:59] Jeryl Brunner: It's wonderful to hear your voice. And so let's start with, for people who might not understand what a producer actually does. What do you do?

[2:11] Christina Papagjika: Yeah, it's a great question. And I get it a lot, actually. You know, being a producer is a really interesting role because it's the balancing of the creative and the commerce or the business piece. Um, so, you know, your roles and responsibilities can include everything from acquiring the rights to the original source material or if there's an original book or story to attaching a screenwriter or a book writer, um, attaching the rest of your creative team, whether it's a director and or a choreographer, and then, you know, seeing out the development of the project, and then as well the either the staging of the show on Broadway, if it's a theater piece, um, or the filming of the project, and then eventually the distribution.

So, you know, you're both the overseeing of the creative process, but also overseeing of the business end, um, all the way through either a film's release or, you know, when a show opens on Broadway through the opening and, you know, hopefully with some luck, um, you know, a nice healthy run.

[3:19] Jeryl Brunner: It's so extraordinary and truly inspiring. And I'd love to know about some of your lightning strike moments. What ultimately got you to where you are? So, can you talk about your childhood and what inspired you back then to get to sure?

[3:39] Christina Papagjika: You know, I um I was really lucky because I was um introduced to the arts at a really young age. Um, my mother is an attorney by trade, but she's a classically trained pianist. She studied at Peabody in Baltimore, uh which is not far from where I grew up in Washington, DC. And I was surrounded by music and show tunes, and I was really lucky to be able to see theater and experience uh live entertainment from a really young age. Um, you know, when the regional shows would be staged or the touring productions would come through town, um, we would always get tickets and go, and it was always, you know, an incredible and magical experience. Um, and at a young age, I was introduced to dance. So, you know, I was in dance classes.

I think I was in tap shoes by the time I was four. I probably owned tap shoes before I owned, you know, other shoes. Um, and I just loved it. I was really lucky because what I was already doing, I loved. And um, I stayed in the dance world. I, you know, when the other kids were out playing sports, I was in the dance studio. And um, eventually by the time I was in high school, I was dancing pre-professionally. So I was studying from incredible instructors, and I would come to New York and I would take classes at Broadway Dance Center and um, you know, back in the days of Frank Hatchett and you know, all of these amazing, amazing people. And um, yeah, it was really inspiring. So I spent a lot of time in my early childhood and in my life uh surrounded and engulfed by the arts.

[5:24] Jeryl Brunner: And you even auditioned for Juilliard.

[5:27] Christina Papagjika: I did, I did, yeah, which was such an amazing experience. You know, I sort of looking back, it sort of felt like an episode out of Fame. Although I did not get into Juilliard. Um, but it was such an amazing experience. And I felt so honored to have been selected to get that audition and just to be surrounded by this incredibly talented group of people and just to soak in that experience was was so amazing, really amazing.

[6:01] Jeryl Brunner: Do you remember one of the first shows you saw on a stage? That or one that really sticks out to you that you were just transformed?

[6:12] Christina Papagjika: Yeah, you well, you know, I mean, as a kid, and I feel like this is sort of a rite of passage, uh, at least for my generation it was, and maybe for others, but I remember as a kid, you know, the first musical that I saw was Annie. And which is ironic because I ended up being a part of the producing team of the revival of Annie. It was the 35-year anniversary later on in my life, and you know, it's the start of my career, but um, yeah, I just I connected with the story and um it was her story was so hopeful, you know. She was such a dreamer and such a believer, and she had a big heart, and you know, I just I really connected with that and um yeah, it was great.

[6:43] Jeryl Brunner: And then you worked for several prominent producers.

[6:58] Christina Papagjika: I did on Broadway. So how did that so yes, can you take me to that point?

[7:04] Christina Papagjika: Sure, sure. Well, you know, it's when I didn't get into Juilliard and I didn't, you know, I didn't get placed in some of the other, you know, top conservatory programs, which you know, they accept something like one half of one percent of all of their applicants. I mean, I always say that there's more talent than there are opportunities in the world. And um, I was really heartbroken because I had worked so hard. And I thought, you know, maybe maybe this just isn't meant to be, you know. Um, and I went back and I studied uh broadcast journalism and communications and um I was still taking dance classes, but I really kind of focused on storytelling from another aspect from another angle. And um sort of as fate would have it, I ended up being introduced to some people who were working on Broadway.

And um I got an interview with a very prominent group of producers, and um, you know, I ended up having several amazing conversations with them, and they hired me, and I was still living in DC at the time, which is where I grew up. And I remember them saying, Well, you know, can you start next week? And I thought, well, I, you know, I've got I have a job and uh, you know, and I don't I have an apartment and I have a whole life in Washington that I need to uh you know, I need to pack up my apartment and move to New York. And um, so they gave me two weeks.

[8:27] Jeryl Brunner: And at this point, you were a college graduate out of the yeah.

[8:32] Christina Papagjika: I had graduated from college and I had been I was studied at GW in DC. Um, which had a, you know, a fantastic journalism program. And um, you know, it was I went to school, you know, as a hometown girl. So um that was really great, and I made such amazing connections and developed such long-lasting relationships um that carried me through life, actually. But um, yeah, so I, you know, packed up my life and I was commuting to New York. And I was, you know, living on my friend, one of my old roommates from GW, I was living on her couch, you know, Monday through Friday. And I was, I was working in the production office. And then I would jump on the train on Friday afternoon and go back to DC. And I would spend every weekend, you know, sort of packing up my stuff and moving everything.

And so it took me a couple of months that I was sort of commuting back and forth. Because the move to New York, as a lot of people know, is a big one and finding an apartment and just kind of re-resituating and adjusting your life to this new city. So I did that for a while and you know eventually moved to New York full time while I was working here full time. And I spent the next couple of years, you know, working for these producers and learning every facet of the business. And I really fell in love with the business of the business. Prior to that point, I was, you know, a theater fan and you know, you know what you see is going to the box office and going to the show and the magic of it all.

But I was sort of seeing behind the curtain and I was seeing how it all works and how it all comes together. And you know, sitting at the table with these industry-leading decision-makers and learning not just from their successes but also at times their failures, um, you know, I just I felt like I was just soaking as much in as I could. Um, so that was an amazing experience.

[10:37] Christina Papagjika: And it sort of got to the point where, you know, I would ask to sit in even on meetings where, you know, maybe I didn't have a role or a responsibility, just because I wanted to learn, you know, and it was kind of at a certain point, it was just kind of like, we know Christina, you wanna you want to join this meeting, you know, because I just I was I was enamored with all of it.

[10:57] Christina Papagjika: And um, you know, I felt like I was kind of getting my master's degree, if you will, um, right there on the spot.

[11:03] Christina Papagjika: Um, so yeah, it was incredible.

[11:05] Jeryl Brunner: And then you got a phone call.

[11:08] Christina Papagjika: Yeah, so this was sort of a magical. You talk about lightning bolt moments, you know. I was I had been working for a couple of years, um, about two and a half years in the industry, and I was starting to think about what would be next for me and what was sort of my long-term plan. You know, I was in my late 20s and I was thinking about my life and building kind of a long-term career for myself and what would that look like, and um sort of where was my next path forward or up the ladder, so to speak.

[11:41] Christina Papagjika: And I loved what these decision makers were doing, you know, they were crafting narratives and they were making decisions about what they thought the next story should be, you know, what should be told, what would be interesting, what would be commercially viable, and how and how you know to sell that show and how to position that show.

[12:04] Christina Papagjika: And um, I loved that conversation. And I saw myself doing that secretly, but to be honest with you, Jeryl, I really didn't know that I could make that jump. I didn't know how to make that jump. I didn't know that that was possible. That felt just light years ahead or above where I was standing in that moment in my career. And it's so weird because it's almost like somebody was hearing my thoughts.

[12:39] Christina Papagjika: And I see it, it goes to voicemail because I had been on a conference call and I picked up the message. And the message was from one of the producers that I had originally worked for. You know, and he's got, you know, Tony Awards and drama desk awards and I mean more awards than you can possibly imagine, you know, this really decorated career. And um, really prolific producer, and he called me, and it was sort of this New York very sort of old New York story. And he said, you know, hey kid, when are you gonna be done with that marketing stuff and come be a producer? And I just remember listening to that message, and I listened to it a couple of times because I thought, you know, what? And I realized that this person had seen in me something that I was sort of still secretly discovering about myself.

[13:39] Christina Papagjika: And there was something about somebody that I had admired and had worked for and had learned from, um, who was, you know, very much a mentor to me. Seeing that in me and sort of that um recognition, that confirmation, gave me that little extra push to say, okay, I let me figure this out. Let me figure out maybe I could actually do this. Um, so I went in and I sat down and I talked to him, and I met with a number of other industry leaders and decided to launch a production company.

[14:13] Jeryl Brunner: On your own.

[14:14] Christina Papagjika: Yeah.

[14:15] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah.

[14:16] Christina Papagjika: That's so extraordinary. And I love that this producer saw that in you, even before you saw it yourself.

[14:26] Jeryl Brunner: And gave you that courage.

[14:28] Christina Papagjika: Yeah, I was, I was so grateful and so appreciative, you know, um, because it really gave me the extra push. And still I was, of course, nervous and unsure of how what I would need to do and how I would put it together, but it gave me a little bit of a push to say, okay, you know, instead of just thinking about this, start taking the steps to figure out how you could do this.

[14:56] Jeryl Brunner: And how I love some of the first shows you produced.

[15:01] Christina Papagjika: I think what a way out of the gate. War Horse at Lincoln Center, the revival of Annie, as you mentioned. And within two years, you expanded into film with The Butler.

[15:14] Jeryl Brunner: So let's talk about that.

[15:16] Christina Papagjika: Oh my goodness. Yeah, amazing. I, you know, to be honest with you, I didn't, you know, I loved the idea of being a film producer and being in the film world. And um, again, another situation where um, you know, I didn't know how I would become involved, you know. And at the time I thought, well, if I'm gonna be a film producer, I've got to, you know, move to California and I've got to work for a studio and you know, get your foot in the door. And, you know, and there were plenty of producers, or at least there were a number of producers on Broadway who did both, right? Produced on Broadway and produced film. There were a few, but these were people who were really prolific and had been doing it for years, and some of which were based on the West Coast. And so again, I didn't have a framework or a frame of reference for how I could do it.

[16:05] Christina Papagjika: And one day I was having breakfast with a friend of mine who was also working in the industry and had started producing around the same time that I had. But he had just done Ides of March with George Clooney. This is a friend of mine who eventually became my business partner, Matt Salloway. And we were sitting at breakfast and we were chatting and we'd been talking about, you know, let's find a project to do together, whether it's, you know, Broadway or, you know, and I had been asking him about film work and um and he said, you know, there's something kind of interesting that I wanted to talk to you about. Uh, there's this project called The Butler that's um getting ready to go into filming.

And they're looking for producers, they're looking for some capital to complete their capitalization. And it's a really interesting project. And, you know, we started talking about it and um talked about the story, which was this, you know, amazing story about this uh butler who had worked uh in the White House over the course of eight presidential administrations.

[17:08] Christina Papagjika: Um, you know, grew up with his family picking cotton on a cotton field, and eventually is the lead butler at the White House. And during this kind of amazing time in American history, you know, through the civil rights movement, he was privy to all kinds of internal conversations and a variety of presidents, right? Whether it be Republican or Democratic administrations. He was just witnessing history. Um at the same time that he himself in his life, he was he was also experiencing history, you know, on the outside of the White House. So it was really an interesting sort of juxtaposition. And I was just blown away by this story because here he has all of these experiences and eventually lives to see the first black president elected into office.

And I was so moved by this story, and it's a true story. And I was so moved by this. And you know, this was at the end of President Obama's first administration. So this was in 2012 that we were having this conversation. And, you know, I, you know, this amazing blacklist script written by Danny Strong, who, you know, eventually became a really great friend. And um directed by Lee Daniels' and starring Forest Whitaker and um Jane Fonda and Oprah Winfrey, and the list goes on. I mean, more Oscar winners than you can imagine in this cast.

[18:42] Christina Papagjika: And, you know, it's funny because I we were having this conversation, and uh, and he said, you know, and Oprah Winfrey, and you know, and he he kept talking. And in my head, you know, I'm listening to everything that he's saying, but in my head, I'm like, did he say Oprah Winfrey? And you know, and it's you know, of course, you know, Oprah's amazing, and I we all love Oprah, right? But there was also, you know, this Oprah hadn't been in a movie in like 12 years. Um, you know, she like she she was very selective about what she did. And before that, she hadn't been in a film for you know, 14 years before that. So, you know, I thought, oh my gosh, you know, Oprah's coming back to acting. Um, and all of these other amazing producers or cast members are signing on you know this is special and so we were talking and he said yeah so um, you know they're they're looking for capital and you'd need to put together you know you know seven figure uh number by um by next week and I just remember looking at him and I said you know and I I'd been look I'd been producing I'd been raising capital and um, you know, that wasn't that was something that I was doing but you know he was asking for for money very quickly and it was the first time I'd been raised you know that I'd raised capital for a film and um and I said oh you know thank you so much but you know this is this is me as a business person right I'm I'm very transparent and I I am a big believer in setting reasonable expectations and uh you know and I said listen thank you so much but you know I I really I couldn't commit I really don't know that I could do that and um you know it's very fast and uh you know thank you so much I really appreciate it but um you know let's keep looking we'll we'll keep an eye out catch you on the next one right kind of a thing and I went home later that night and Jeryl when I tell you I couldn't sleep I tossed and turned all night all night and something inside said you've got to do this you've got to do this you have to find a way this is, you know, I just I there was something in my gut that said you're making a mistake.

[21:06] Christina Papagjika: And so I thought, all right, well, you know, let me just call him and we'll figure this out. And so I waited until, you know, a reasonable time to call someone in the morning. You know, I didn't want him to think that I was like awake all night obsessing over this. And um, I first thing in the morning I picked up the phone and I called him and I said, listen, you know, I know I said no, and I I don't know what I can do, but can you just give me, can you give me a day? You know, can you give me 24 hours? Can you give me, you know, a little bit of time? And he said, Yeah, sure, yeah, no problem. And so I started making phone calls and I started reaching out. And by that time next the following week, not only had I put together the capital that was needed, but I had put together more. And it was this sort of amazing thing where, you know, sort of just, you know, kind of the universe aligned.

[22:09] Christina Papagjika: Yeah, you know, and what I took from that, Jeryl, and something that I've taken with me through the rest of my career, is to really pay attention to those gut instincts. You know, um, you know, for me, when something says, you know, you've got to go for this, you know, you've got to give it a try, you've gotta, you know, follow through, get more information, whatever it may be. I I really learned to start listening to my gut instincts. Um, and that's really that's that's been to my advantage in my life. And I'm really, I'm grateful for having having learned that early on.

[22:46] Jeryl Brunner: It's so wonderful that you had that sense of trust and it paid off. So, how did Kinky Boots come into your life?

[22:54] Christina Papagjika: Well, that was, you know, it's amazing because it sort of they happened sort of in succession pretty quickly. Um so while we were while we were filming The Butler in New Orleans, uh it was I guess the summer of 2012. Um I got a phone call about this new musical that that was being developed. And um, you know, Cindy Lauper was writing the score, and it was again based on this really cool and inspiring true story.

[23:23] Christina Papagjika: I love the film so much. I still think of it. Oh, it's so great. And you know, I still get people saying to me the same thing, how much they love the film. It really was this incredible sort of indie gem. Yes. And um, yeah, so I got this call and I said, you know, sure, I'll have happy to take a look at it. And so when I got back to New York, I attended one of the workshops. And, you know, the sets are built out of plywood, and you know, everybody's in their, you know, warm-up gear. Um, at this point, the boots had been constructed. So everybody's in leotards and the tall red boots. And um, you know, and I remember sitting in one of the studios on 42nd Street and seeing this workshop. And I walked out just speechless.

Um, which is what happens to me, I've noticed when I see something that is just so remarkable that sort of initially I don't have the words to describe just how special it is. And again, that's sort of another like sort of gut instinct moment that I learned about myself. You know, you sort of learn how you learn how to listen to yourself. And um, you know, and I walked out and I just I couldn't describe just how how amazing and how special it was. So yeah, I decided to become a part of the project, and I signed on as a co-producer. And we took the show to um to Chicago out of town, and then eventually opened the show in the spring of 2013 on Broadway. And, you know, it was really interesting because, you know, we were really lucky because it was a beautiful show, and we knew that we had, you know, all of the right elements.

You had this fabulous base, you know, foundational story, a book by Harvey Feierstein, Jerry Mitchell, amazing direction, amazing choreography, Cindy Lauper, who, you know, had written this gorgeous score that was upbeat and fun and joyous, but also like really moving and touching at the same time. So, you know, and this, and this really important story about acceptance, acceptance of the self, acceptance of others, you know, the idea that we're all different, but at the end of the day, we're all the same. Um appreciating each other for that. And so we knew we had something really special. But what was really interesting is in the background while all of this was happening, you had all of the various elements that that were, you know, kind of politically leading to the passing of same-sex marriage legislation.

So, you know, in 2012, you had, you know, the reversal of Prop 8. And then in 2013, you had, you know, DOMA and the next piece, which really opened the floodgates for the eventual passing of of the legislation. And so it was interesting because we just we knew we had something special and we knew we had all the right elements from a creative standpoint. But I I feel really fortunate because here again, just like The Butler, um, there was a project that was coming together for me that was also being reflected in what was going on in the world. And you know, you'd love to be able to have a crystal ball and to be able to predict these kinds of things. But what I learned is just to really follow your gut instincts.

And um, and yeah, we were really lucky because the show was well received, and then this legislation was passed, and you know, there was an air of acceptance, you know, that that that feeling of acceptance, that notion of acceptance was in the air, and it was part of the conversation. And Kinky Boots was reflecting that, and and that was amazing. And now here we are at the cusp of the opening of Six Minutes to Midnight. Let's talk about that and what and how profoundly relevant this film is right now.

[27:29] Christina Papagjika: Oh, thank you. This is um, this is such a special project. You know, I I loved it from the moment that I read the script. Um, you know, this is the uh the passion project of Eddie Izzard, who um grew up not far from where the story takes place in the in the south of England, um, Bex Hills, and and there's this school that that existed, and um it was uh part of the what they call the the Anglo German fellowship, um, this school that was training young girls to speak English. And in the summer of uh 1939, the the students were the daughters of the high-ranking Nazi officials, and England was teaching, you know, we were training them to speak English and become part of English society. And what we learned in all of our research was that the Nazis, their intent was for these girls to, you know, marry off and become part of England's high society and be influential in creating, you know, what they had hoped would be an ally in England in a bigger way, as as you know, as Hitler was coming to power.

So, you know, it's it's an amazing story, and it's an untold story. A lot of people, you know, are you know are not familiar with this. And Eddie really felt strongly about telling the story. And um, he brought us, he brought our team together. Um, you know, and uh Judi Dench joined us, and you know, team Judy, she's she's so incredible, you know, and she's such a gem. Working with her is just she's she's everything that you hope that she would be and more. Um just so lovely and so kind and funny, but she's also, you know, a really grounded actress. I mean, she considers herself an everyday working actress, you know, which is journey woman, yeah. Yeah, you know, it's for all of her success, you know, she's so humble and lovely, and she comes to work every day, just wanting to do the work and wanting to do good work.

And it's so sweet to see her connecting with. We had a lot of young people on this set, as you might imagine, you know, the students of the school. Um, and you know, to see her working with them and talking with them and giving them words of encouragement, and you know, that's something she doesn't have to do. Um, but she's she's very grandmotherly that way, you know. Um so yeah, so we're you know, we shot the film in Wales. Um and and the film has come together beautifully, and it's gonna be out in theaters and on demand at the end of March, March 26th. So we're really excited about it.

[30:16] Jeryl Brunner: Really? Isn't there a isn't there a story about uh stay in Wales above a pub?

[30:25] Christina Papagjika: You know, it's so funny. There is, and it involves Welsh men singing in a pub until you know, I you never know what these experiences will bring you, you know. Um all of the sort of side stories, I guess. But so, you know, I had never been to Wales, and you know, it's it's it's fun to be on set and to watch the creative process come together. And and obviously you're there in a business capacity as well, right? Overseeing the process. And um, but you never know when you're filming, you know, we kind of know in the business, like you could be staying, you don't know where, and you know, you have to be prepared for anything. And that's that's part of the fun of it also. Um, and I you know, we we were all staying in Wales, but you know, this was a small town, and you know, you don't have big hotels and you know, lots of uh rooms for people.

And so, you know, between our production and I don't know, I think maybe the Prince of Wales was also in town at the time or something. That's that's what we had heard. And so between all of us, all of the hotel rooms had been you know booked up. And I I couldn't, I couldn't find a place to stay. And I'd been searching, searching, searching, and the production was was helping me and finally they said, you know, we've we found something, but we just want you to be prepared you know it's it's a it's a there's a one bedroom above a pub and you know it's it's you know just want you to be prepared like we found you a bed and a place to put your head just we just want you to you know and you know and I'm like just grateful to find a place of course and so I said yeah no problem no problem and so I pull up and it's this you know this house that had been there for what felt like centuries and um, you know I'm going to the bar you know to get my key to my to my room you know and I'm like well where's the you know where do I check in you know American you know I'm in my head I'm thinking where where do I check in and they're like check in love you know um here's your key you know I'm staying in this pub and I'd come home from said and you know and then of course you know around 11 12 o'clock at night you know after many many pints I think had been had by all of the Welsh you know these big you know amazing but burly guys you know downstairs you know the singing would start you know and so you know there were they were slinging back pints and singing until the wee hours and um, you know, it was just like such a fun and funny experience you know because here you're coming off set with Eddie Izzard and Judi Dench and and Judy was so kind and lovely you know she was like oh I'll have my, you know, send my car to come and pick you up.

And you know, and I'm walking out of this like kind of grimy pub in the morning, and like Judi Dench's, you know, her like very fancy car is showing up to pick you up in the middle of, you know, and you look like you're just rolling out of the pub, you know. And I probably looked like it because these guys had been singing all night, and uh, you know, and I'm getting into her like very posh, you know, it looked like a, you know, it was like a Maybach looking, you know, Mercedes in the middle of Wales, you know. And I just remember getting into the car and the driver would kind of look at me and laugh, and I'm like, I know, I know, just thank you for the ride, you know. So um just really it was an amazing experience and uh a lot of fun. A lot of fun.

[34:01] Jeryl Brunner: I remember when I was um really young, right out of college and traveling around your yeah around Europe at youth hostels, and people said go to the pub because they have the best rooms. And yeah, yeah, you'll get a key, and it was the best breakfast ever. The best breakfast. Totally the best breakfast. And in fact, I authentic. Oh my gosh, totally. And the people were so lovely. And I think, you know, part of it was, you know, sort of this, you know, American who hadn't spent a lot of time sort of um outside of major cities, even internationally. So um, but it was it was great, and the people were lovely and the food was actually fantastic. And we were really lucky too because it was um, you know, Wales, you know, you get a lot of rain.

And it was the summer, and we were lucky because we got the sort of the two to three weeks of of that summer. It happened to be a dry spell. Um, so we had blue skies and sunshine every day, and and you see that reflected in the cinematography of the film.

[35:07] Christina Papagjika: And I remember the driver saying to me, you know, you got really lucky, like don't get used to this, you know, this is not what Wales is normally like.

[35:15] Christina Papagjika: Um cinematically, the film is gorgeous.

[35:21] Christina Papagjika: And this school is something out of dare I say it almost like a Downton Abbey kind of, I mean, it's just magnificent.

[35:31] Christina Papagjika: The scenery alone, and then you add the story and the intrigue and the thriller part.

[35:37] Christina Papagjika: It's really exciting. Thank you.

[35:39] Jeryl Brunner: You what? Let's talk about Worth.

[35:42] Jeryl Brunner: Oh how thrilling the Obamas are involved and their company. What is Worth about? And how did the Obamas get involved?

[35:52] Christina Papagjika: So Worth is again another amazing true story, um, based on the story of a man by the name of Ken Feinberg, who was um appointed the um special master of the 9-11 victims compensation fund.

[36:13] Christina Papagjika: So it was Ken's job in the days and weeks after this tragedy. It was his job to come up with the formula for how funds, government funds were going to be distributed to the victims' families.

[36:28] Christina Papagjika: And as you might imagine, I mean, to take on that role, you know, this was the greatest tragedy that we had ever experienced on American soil.

[36:38] Christina Papagjika: And to be having to meet, you know, can meet and connect with these families in the aftermath of this tragedy was just incredible, you know, and so raw, and people were so hurt, obviously, and devastated and angry, and at a loss, you know.

[37:01] Christina Papagjika: Um, and we all have our story of 9-11 and where we were, but to have lost a family member unexpectedly.

[37:11] Christina Papagjika: And in some cases, um, with certain families, you know, to have lost maybe the breadwinner or the main financial contributor to your household, uh, to lose a spouse, to lose a parent, to lose a loved one.

[37:24] Christina Papagjika: Um, there were so many stories.

[37:28] Christina Papagjika: Yeah, exactly, that came out of that.

[37:30] Christina Papagjika: And so his story and his experience was just incredible.

[37:35] Christina Papagjika: And I don't want to give away any spoilers here, but he did write a book about his experience.

[37:39] Christina Papagjika: It's called What is Life Worth?

[37:42] Christina Papagjika: Um, the idea being, you know, how do you attach a value to a human life?

[37:48] Christina Papagjika: And how do you come up with the formula for how that should be, how that should be distributed?

[37:54] Christina Papagjika: Um, so the film tells his story.

[37:57] Christina Papagjika: And um playing Ken is Michael Keaton.

[38:02] Christina Papagjika: Um, and also uh in the film is Stanley Tucci and Laura Benanti, who you know, we all know and love from Broadway.

[38:12] Christina Papagjika: And, you know, her performance is just sensational.

[38:17] Christina Papagjika: Um, it really gives me cold chills to watch her in this film.

[38:22] Christina Papagjika: It's a real standout performance for her.

[38:26] Christina Papagjika: Um, and I'm just so glad that she's a part of it.

[38:29] Christina Papagjika: Um, so yeah, so the film tells this incredible true life story and how he navigated that experience.

[38:38] Christina Papagjika: Um, told by this incredible cast.

[38:41] Christina Papagjika: It's, it was a blacklist script, another blacklist script, just like The Butler was.

[38:46] Christina Papagjika: This one was written by Max Bornstein, directed by Sarah Colangelo, who is this incredible female director who did well at Sundance a few years before that with Kindergarten Teacher with uh Maggie Gyllenhaal.

[39:00] Christina Papagjika: And so it was just this really beautiful project.

[39:03] Christina Papagjika: And so we made this, we shot this here in New York, which was also very cool and special.

[39:09] Christina Papagjika: Um, and we took it to Sundance last year and it helped to open the Sundance Film Festival, which was awesome, and um had an amazing experience and had, you know, people loved it and it was, you know, recognized as a really special film.

[39:25] Christina Papagjika: And um, and Netflix, Netflix acquired the film, and Netflix wanted to buy it and put it out.

[39:32] Christina Papagjika: And the Obamas heard about the film and wanted to watch it, and they screened it and loved it and said that they wanted to be a part of it.

[39:42] Christina Papagjika: So the film is being released by Netflix in partnership with Barack and Michelle Obama's Higher Ground Productions.

[39:50] Christina Papagjika: Um, so we've, you know, we're collaborating together to release this film, and um, it'll be out in September, which is actually the 20th anniversary of 9-11.

[40:01] Jeryl Brunner: So yeah. For people who might not know, can you describe what a blacklist script, what that is?

[40:09] Christina Papagjika: So a blacklist script is a script that um has been reviewed by peers in the industry.

[40:18] Christina Papagjika: And um, a number of industry professionals will review and rate the script.

[40:25] Christina Papagjika: And um, you know, the scripts become rated as part of a ranking system and, you know, get added to the blacklist if they meet this rating system.

[40:37] Christina Papagjika: And it's sort of a special recognition that says, you know, this is a really special and well-written piece.

[40:46] Christina Papagjika: Um, and you know, you will often see those scripts either getting made or going on for, you know, with, you know, some sort of, you know, awards contention potentially, or you know, we don't like to predict these kinds of things because there's so many elements that come, but you just know that it's a really a special story and incredibly well written and um, and well done.

[41:12] Christina Papagjika: We go back to War Horse, how that happened.

[41:15] Jeryl Brunner: I love that production.

[41:18] Christina Papagjika: I still think of the horse, uh, how connected I was to this illiterate being.

[41:26] Christina Papagjika: I know. I was in love with it too.

[41:29] Christina Papagjika: I mean, you know, everybody who saw it kind of said the same thing.

[41:32] Christina Papagjika: I think we were all just so taken aback, not just by this really special story.

[41:37] Christina Papagjika: You know, you a lot of stories have been told about, you know, World War One and World War II.

[41:43] Christina Papagjika: But I always find that the stories um, that are really sort of capturing our attention are these, you know, sort of these stories that you wouldn't inherently think about, right?

[41:53] Christina Papagjika: And um, you know, the horses of World War One and this boy and his horse, and you know, how the horse became, you know, a working horse and basically a member, you know, of the military and went off to war.

[42:09] Christina Papagjika: And um, and how they ended up becoming reunited.

[42:14] Christina Papagjika: Um, and the horses themselves, as you I'm sure you remember, you know, they took on a life of their own.

[42:20] Christina Papagjika: You know, the uh, the South African puppet company that developed those horses, uh, you know, larger than life-size horses, it took them nine years to develop um, to develop and create the puppetry.

[42:35] Christina Papagjika: Um, and you know, remember it took three puppeteers per horse to operate each horse on stage.

[42:43] Christina Papagjika: And it was, I was just, I was so taken aback, you know, within just a few minutes of the start of the show, you know, the horses took on a life of their own.

[42:53] Christina Papagjika: And all of a sudden the puppeteers kind of faded into the background.

[42:57] Christina Papagjika: And you could see these horses as their own characters.

[43:00] Jeryl Brunner: Yes, it was beautiful.

[43:02] Jeryl Brunner: And I mean, we're in a very different place now than we were last year, entering this year.

[43:12] Jeryl Brunner: How do you view? I know nobody has a crystal ball, but how the industry will change.

[43:19] Jeryl Brunner: How do you see your role in it as well?

[43:24] Christina Papagjika: Yeah, you know, I'm really grateful because I get to help craft the narratives.

[43:34] Christina Papagjika: And I get to make the decisions in my, you know, in my business, I make the decisions as to which projects I move forward with and which projects, you know, I want to see out in the world, and what subject matter, what storylines I want to see out in the world.

[43:52] Christina Papagjika: And, you know, still following my gut instinct and also kind of paying attention to what's going on and where the conversation is moving as a society.

[44:01] Christina Papagjika: Um, you know, I think that as a society we're moving in the direction of, you know, first of all, storytelling is, you know, an age-old tradition, and storytelling will always be an important part of our lives and how we relate to each other and how we understand each other, or perhaps understand people who are not like us, you know, um, maybe didn't grow up the way that we did.

[44:26] Christina Papagjika: And I really believe that it's a tool for how we can better connect with each other and have more empathy and compassion for each other and understanding.

[44:36] Christina Papagjika: Um, so that's part of what I love so much about storytelling.

[44:41] Christina Papagjika: And, you know, and theater has a very special um, you know, there's something really special about theater and live performance.

[44:49] Christina Papagjika: Um, and then, you know, with film and television, the idea that you can reach the masses, you know, you can reach the world.

[44:55] Christina Papagjika: It's a medium that's accessed around the planet and now in so many different ways digitally.

[45:00] Christina Papagjika: So um, so I love, I love all of that.

[45:04] Christina Papagjika: And I think, you know, sort of in a post-2020 world, we're really talking about, and what's really important, I think, is, you know, truthful storytelling.

[45:14] Christina Papagjika: You know, um, I think society is looking for to understand more, you know.

[45:22] Christina Papagjika: Um, there's a lot happening in the world, and there's a lot happening in our country.

[45:26] Christina Papagjika: And, you know, storytelling allows us to have conversations and allows us to kind of grow and evolve.

[45:35] Christina Papagjika: So it's so wonderful.

[45:39] Jeryl Brunner: And I look forward to more stories from you, Christina Papagjika.

[45:43] Christina Papagjika: Thank you so much.

[45:45] Christina Papagjika: Jeryl, thank you so much.

[45:47] Christina Papagjika: It's always such a pleasure talking to you.

[45:49] Christina Papagjika: And I'm really hoping that we can, you know, see each other in person when all of this is out and done, and um, you know, get back to seeing great theater and um, you know, really get back to all of the in-person stuff that we all love and enjoy.

[46:11] Jeryl Brunner: Amen to that.

[46:13] Jeryl Brunner: And that way.

[46:15] Jeryl Brunner: Thank you again.

[46:16] Christina Papagjika: Thank you, Jeryl.

[46:18] Christina Papagjika: Thank you so much.

[46:19] Christina Papagjika: Take good care.

[46:20] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah, you too.

[46:27] Jeryl Brunner: The theme song was written by Tom McGovern.

[46:30] Jeryl Brunner: This episode was edited by Kyle Moore, and the talent was booked by Anna Strout.

[46:36] Jeryl Brunner: Lightning strikes.