This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:02] Patrick Oliver Jones: Are you an artist who's looking for ways to continually exercise your creative muscles, find different avenues through this pandemic to continue to create the art you love? Well, then today's part two conversation with Erin Cronican is for you.

[0:25] Patrick Oliver Jones: Well, thank you for joining me once again here on Why I'll Never Make It. To join the newsletter or take part in this season's podcast survey, go to whyillnevermakeit.com. The first part of my conversation with Erin was very personal and intimate. And so in lieu of a final five episode, I wanted this part two conversation to be a chance for us to widen out a bit and focus on the craft of producing theater in this era of COVID. But it certainly affects us not only artistically, but also in the home.

[1:12] Erin Cronican: Yeah, sort of. I mean, uh begrudgingly, because I really don't cook. I really shouldn't be in a kitchen ever. I got to. Uh I have not. I joked on Twitter, like just you can count on me to never post a I just baked bread picture because that will never be happening. Um, but yeah, uh, you know, just trying to enjoy the night. I'll do a little bit of work on our education program and yeah, just try to maybe watch a movie. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's pretty much what it's like. What do we want to watch today? What do I want to cook today? Those are those are the big questions that I go through now.

[1:49] Patrick Oliver Jones: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, because I I have not, I didn't audition last weekend for for a commercial, oddly enough.

[1:57] Erin Cronican: Huh. Yeah. But but other than that in the last three weeks I have not submitted a thing I have friends who are um creating online projects I've got two projects that I'm gonna be contributing to so I'm starting to think about those so I do have some creative things and like coming down the pike but I've even thought about doing something like my that myself gathering some actors and doing just like an online reading or just something to just kind of exercise those muscles again.

[2:26] Patrick Oliver Jones: Absolutely and and since you've probably dealt with this in doing any kind of just like hey let's get three people together we're gonna read this play do you have to go through any rights or anything like that if you if you have it online what what does that world look like?

[2:26] Erin Cronican: Yeah, I mean it if you're an individual artist and obviously I know we both know we're both members of the unions um there they don't seem to be policing the individual artists um wanting to put something online of their own work um it licensing from a writer always needs to happen um but it seems like putting a song online it does not seem like the composers of this these um songs are um coming after the individual artists but as a theater company we've been specifically told by equity you do not have a contract to stream anything unless you get this off Broadway or hire contract um and pay health and pension and this is not the level of theater that we're at right now.

[3:33] Erin Cronican: We have a different contract that allows for no video recording, no streaming whatsoever. And equity has said, you know, if that changes, if we come up with a contract for you at your level, we'll let you know. In the meantime, you cannot put anything up. So I I really do hope that COVID finally kicks equity in the butt and makes them realize we're in a digital visual world that is online. And equity needs to join that world. You know, we have an opportunity to pay even more than we would have before because our overhead is so low. So um, and we have a little bit of money in the bank. So even if we could do what we asked for was can we use the stage reading code, which is, you know, um for a musical, it's um, you know, 25 hours um of preparation, including the reading itself, or you can do 19 hours for um a play and you pay the actors 100. Like we can afford that.

[4:34] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah.

[4:35] Erin Cronican: So can we do that? No, it doesn't count for streaming. That's only for live performance. So um it just leaves us with not much that we can do while all these other theaters are innovating and putting things online. Um theater theaters of our size are not allowed to. Um so that limits it. But as an individual artist, I'm opting to do those smaller things um where I'm just putting, you know, a monologue online here or a scene there or a song there. Um, and then when someone comes and tells me I can't do that, I'll have that conversation then.

[5:15] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah. But yeah. I assume some kind of like audition cut or you know, whatever presentation. I mean, you know, because Studio 54, all the, you know, we release these song snippets, you know, all the time, even before. So and they've I've I've never heard of anyone getting, you know, slapped down for that.

[5:32] Erin Cronican: So yeah, I mean, when you're performing in the cabaret community, the there's a each of the venues has a license with ASCAP, which allows you to do snippets of songs or doing or doing snippets of musicals without having to pay licensing as an artist. Um I don't I it's a wild, wild west out there for the online world.

[5:53] Patrick Oliver Jones: So yeah, yeah. I mean, uh hopefully equity kind of joins the program because he ev even years ago, I remember that uh a friend of mine had written a play and was presenting it at an Orlando fringe festival. And because I was in it, no one else was in the union, but I but I was I was equity, and because of that, he couldn't record it just for his own sake.

[6:18] Erin Cronican: Yes. And it's like no, no, no, he's he he wants to get this play and maybe license it. And so he needs to have some he's taking notes, but he needs to have some video of it. And equity was like, no, you can't do that.

[6:29] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah. That's like we're not selling it. It it it's just equity, I I just find I I get frustrated when they don't seem to understand what artists actually need.

[6:39] Erin Cronican: Yeah, I think that uh uh what would really make it a lot better, and it would not take very much to do this, is to have a liaison in the union that allows the individual artist to reach out and say, here's why I'd like to waive this particular um rule of this contract. Here's what I'm willing to give up. And I'm gonna sign on the dotted line. And um, and because I understand why for globally they want that rule, and I would like as an artist to be able to say, but it's okay in this case for me.

[7:13] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah, you know, um, and a self-producing artists, like my theater company, we're all actors. About half of us are a member of equity. Um, and we are all self-producing specifically to get ourselves out there. And by having no ability to put ourselves out there during this time is is it cr it's crushing for us as union artists who are trying to make a name for ourselves. And and I understand that we don't make money for the union when we are this small as a as a theater company, um, but as union artists, we contribute quite a lot.

[7:52] Erin Cronican: Yeah.

[7:53] Patrick Oliver Jones: Um, and we contribute quite a lot to our community. And what's interesting is that you know, we have an imperative as a nonprofit theater organization to maintain our mission, but the union is actually not allowing us to do that. So we're having to, in order to stay um, keep our nonprofit status, we have to be doing what we set out to do. Um so we're having to innovate to keep that going as much as we can.

[8:22] Erin Cronican: Which is uh which I I guess is this educational route that you're going, because then equity has no say in that.

[8:27] Patrick Oliver Jones: Exactly. Uh equity can be great, and then yeah, because I've sat in on those on those committee meetings and they give concessions all the time to things. So I would think that one actor can be like, you know what, I'm gonna let my playwright record this thing for archives so that he has a video.

[8:45] Erin Cronican: The interesting thing is you say that you have sat in on those council meetings. Um, once you become a self-producer, uh, you are considered conflict of interest, and they don't allow you to go to any meetings anymore because now you're an employer, and technically um people could feel really uncomfortable to be open in a meeting, knowing that a potential employer is there listening. So I, as an equity actor, no longer have a voice. I can't go to membership meetings.

[9:14] Patrick Oliver Jones: Oh my gosh.

[9:16] Erin Cronican: I can't be on a council. I can't like as a producer, you would think that maybe I would be on the council for the the showcase code in New York. Um, you know, to help develop it to help make it worth the for our members who are now producing, and they don't let us interesting.

[9:35] Patrick Oliver Jones: So I'm a conflict of interest.

[9:37] Erin Cronican: I'm just gonna have that be that's gonna be my epitaph. I am a conflict of interest.

[9:40] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right.

[9:44] Erin Cronican: I mean, but in a way, all of us are self-producing, whether we're doing stuff so so what? If I like wrote a web series and got some friends and did it, then well, I can't be in equity membership meetings anymore. Like well, I mean, technically that's SAGA. So loves their self-producer, so there's a big difference. Um, but yeah, if you were to write a play and you were to produce it as a producer of record, um, you are now a conflict of interest.

[10:13] Patrick Oliver Jones: What if I just write the play but let someone else do it?

[10:15] Erin Cronican: They might then that's something okay.

[10:17] Patrick Oliver Jones: Okay, because because that's actually something that uh again during this time when I have have you know my creative juices needing something. I've I've wanted to like, okay, I have a couple of ideas for plays and want to start to write them down, flesh it out, see where it goes. All right, but as long as I don't produce it, then I'm okay.

[10:33] Erin Cronican: Right. Then you're okay. You can still go to membership meetings and try to like make a difference.

[10:37] Patrick Oliver Jones: Is it is it just being that that producer? Like, what if you direct something?

[10:40] Erin Cronican: That's okay.

[10:41] Patrick Oliver Jones: Correcting is fine, yeah, because it's not related to the union whatsoever.

[10:46] Erin Cronican: Okay.

[10:46] Patrick Oliver Jones: Um but as a producer I'm filing with the union to do this particular production under the header of our production company and yeah.

[10:54] Erin Cronican: Oh equity.

[10:56] Patrick Oliver Jones: Interesting.

[10:57] Erin Cronican: Yeah.

[10:58] Patrick Oliver Jones: All right. All right. Well I'll let you get to you know cooking whatever you're going to cook.

[11:01] Erin Cronican: Oh my goodness. See if I'm alive tomorrow or I burn the kitchen down.

[11:06] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right.

[11:07] Patrick Oliver Jones: All right. Well well thank you for taking the time out to to talk with me here.

[11:11] Erin Cronican: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

[11:18] Patrick Oliver Jones: Well a big thank you to Erin as well as to you for being a part of this conversation. I think artists like Erin are a true testament to what theater can do and and the type of inspiration and motivation that this art can create. I know I have certainly personally gained a lot out of this time spent with Erin and I hope you've enjoyed it as well. If you can think of anyone who would benefit from this conversation then please feel free to share this with them. Again don't forget to go to resources.winmepodcast dot com to see how you can contribute and donate to the Seeing Place Theater. I'm your host Patrick Oliver Jones and let's get together next time as we talk more about why I'll never make it.