Sònia Victoria Werner:

Foreign.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Welcome back, listeners. Last week, Sònia Victoria Werner and I dove into her background as an artist and the creation of Lighthouse Ladies. And while that was such an insightful conversation, there is still so much more for us to explore. And that's why I'm thrilled to have Vicki here back with me and the final five questions. And now this is where we're going to, you know, get a little more personal, uncovering lessons learned, hopes for the industry, and a deeper look at what drives her as an artist. So, Vicki, let us get started with question number one. What do you remember most about your first professional show?

Sònia Victoria Werner:

And this is more theater, correct?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, yeah, go for it.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

I mean, my first professional show was in high school. I got into a regional production of the Addams Family, and as you might be able to tell, I'm such a bubbly, like, fun exc person, and I have a lot of energy and etc. But I was gunning for Wednesday, and I remember just, like, trying my best to find my actor's sense and, like, the depletion of energy, but also just, like, funneling that energy into the more dark sides of the spirit of Wednesday. And I remember booking that. And the final audition, the final callback was in front of everyone in an auditorium, all the auditioners. And I remember being there and feeling terrified, don't get me wrong, but just feeling like this is going to be cheesy, but a little bit at home of, like, I think this is what I want to do forever, even. Even though it's scary, even though I know everyone in this audience probably hates me right now or loves me or hates me or feels like they're in competition with me. At the end of the day, it's like, let's build something exciting together and push yourself to new limits.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

I think I remember just that joy and that freedom of being someone so opposite from myself and embracing fear, indifference, and change on stage in front of hundreds of people.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, I remember that well, Adam Lee. It was my very first national tour. So it's a show held near and dear to my heart. I love it.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Oh, my goodness. Look at that. We have that in common. Well, went on a tour. I was. I was in one little theater.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

No, no, out of the family. I. I got to, you know, I got to know Andrew Lippa, and I brought him on the podcast and got to talk. And Adam's family has done very well for him, you know, because it has gone regionally. High schools do it, colleges do it. It's, like, everywhere.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

And the funniest Thing is, I also talked to Andrew Lippa about this, which is very funny because he's also on the board of the Dramatist Guild foundation, which Lighthouse Ladies, as a community partner for or with.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Love it. Love it. Yeah. The theater world is a small little world. We're all connected.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Now, number two, if you could give advice to your younger self starting out, what would that be?

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Oh, if I could give advice to my younger self, I would say something that my dear, dear friend Heather Lynn Wong and co founder of Lighthouse Ladies told me that I think really reframed my perspective, and that is that you. It is impossible to ever be behind in your own journey. There is no falling behind in on your path. There's just your path. Your time will come. You will continue growing. There is never something that is too late. You are never behind.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

You just need to keep pushing and know that your time will come and that good things come to those who wait. And not only to those who wait, but to those who fight while waiting.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And I'm curious. I mean, that is a great way to look at things, but that is hard to put into practice. How were you able to take that in and then actually apply it?

Sònia Victoria Werner:

When I was a kid, I desperately wanted to be a child actor, which I think is. You look back and you're like, you wanted to do that? No, but I really. I wanted to be on Disney, and I wanted to be on Nick, and I wanted to do all of these Broadway, all these things. And I just didn't necessarily have the connections nor the knowledge, nor the resources that I did have now. And I think for a long time I blamed myself and I said, oh, I wasted my childhood or like, I wasted my. My best years of, like, breaking into the industry. And that was lot of the negative self talk that I had told myself, like, a long time ago. And it really reframed it for me of, like, maybe that just wasn't my journey.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Maybe that just wasn't my path. Because who knows? If I had pursued that path, Maybe I didn't have Lighthouse Ladies. Maybe I didn't go to nyu. Maybe I didn't become the artist who I am today. Maybe I didn't meet the people that I that have changed my life today for the better. And I think all of those things, you know, in practice helped me really internalize those things that you can never be behind in your own journey. And other people's wins are not your losses. At the end of the day, we need to come together and be against the gatekeepers, not the People affected by the system.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, it seems like that, that what she was able to, to say to you or what resonated with you. And as you say it, it's resonating with me in the fact that it shifts the focus from what's, what's been lost. Like, oh, if I'd only done that, then I could have done that. Then I could have done, you know, all the what ifs. It, it shifts your focus away from what may have been lost to what has actually happened. Like, well, yeah, because of this path I'm on, I got to do X, Y and Z. That wouldn't have happened on this other path.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Exactly. And, and, and at that point, you know, like, it's, it's all your journey. You can never fall behind. And I think reframing it in that way, as you mentioned, there is no time wasted, only experiences gained. And I think I also told myself that a lot in the pandemic because a lot of people at that time took leave of absences from school or took gap semesters or dropped out for a little bit. And I think everyone's on their own path and that was all good for them. But I remember thinking to myself in those moments, I was like, what do I need to continue serving me on my path? And I remembered I can't ditch my training. I can't ditch the arts.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

And that led me to graduating early. And I graduated NYU early, one of the top of my class, chair of the drama student council. All these things and accolades that I don't know if I ever would have gotten had I denied myself of that opportunity. And so, you know, it's. It's strange. It's strange in a way, I was behind because I didn't get that sort of like, in person, rigorous whatever, but it wasn't really behind because it was really a win in the end. Your time always comes. It really does.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, number three, what does success, or making it mean to you?

Sònia Victoria Werner:

It's tricky, isn't it? Because I think when we think of success, we also think a lot of fame, Fame and success going hand in hand. We being the collective we, I think, in the industry. And I think that over the years, my definition of success has changed a whole lot. Because the thing with success is that it's a very mutable thing in the sense that the second that you reach whatever you think was success, your definition is going to change, and then your definition is going to change again, and then it's going to change again. And so in that way, I always say that if fame is a byproduct of hard work, dedication, and doing things the way that I really dreamed of doing them, so be it. I'll accept that. Is it the aim? Is it what success means? Not to me. I do think that success is collective joy, is comfort, is balance in life and empowering others to realize that in their own lives.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Making more space for artists, paying people to be artists, making this career not as cutthroat and gate kept. And what's your backup? But I think changing the industry from the inside out would be a really successful thing. And building a creative ecosystem where you can be successful and you can win awards and you can be commercially successful in funding your own work. I guess that's also a metric of success, but you can also be empathetic and human while you're at all of it. Yeah, I think building Lighthouse Ladies, building my own name and proving that I can do it all within reason.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, number four, and I'm going to specify this to Lighthouse Ladies because I'm curious, within this collective initiative, all its different names it's gone through. What changes do you hope that Lighthouse Ladies can bring to the industry moving forward?

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Oh, I like that. I think as I mentioned to you before, a lot of what we try to build is we always say that we're building towards a creative ecosystem. We have a database that is completely free to join on our website, lighthouse ladies.com and that allows us to recommend creatives for various roles, to send out opportunities in different blasts or in our mailing lists to make people feel like they are part of something that is fighting for them. That's big for us that we are building that kind of ecosystem and that Collaborator network. There's a lot of feelings of impermanence in this industry. You know, like I think people feeling like I get this gig for three months either as a crew member, as an actor or anything, and then what happens after the three months and you never see those people again, you know, and so it's just like it's, you know, hopping from thing to thing to thing and I think it's figuring out how to incorporate more permanence into this industry. More life, more joy, more togetherness. And you know, doing them in like small actionable ways.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Like I mentioned to you, like for our internship program, we got triple the amount of submissions this year that we had ever gotten before, which was incredible. And for everyone that we had to say no to, unfortunately, we offered them the opportunity to request feedback on their application or on their interview with us. And that's just one of the ways that we are embracing humanity and embracing the process of the arts, of creation, and of what we're building with others. So, you know, I mentioned the database, I mentioned that. But I think showing people that you don't necessarily have to. How do I say this? You don't have to choose. You don't need to be kind and not win a lot. You can win and be really wonderful while you're at it and be really strong in business and build an vampire.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, nice. Ladies can finish first. True.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

I like that. Putting that on the website.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, number five, describe a personal lesson that's taken you a while to learn or one that you're still working on to this day.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

We touched upon this when we spoke last about this notion that if you want to do something right, you have to do it yourself. And I think in our industry, that embodies itself or manifests itself in biting off way more than you can chew and also spreading yourself really thin and doing things that don't bring you a lot of joy, that kind of breed resentment towards the industry or towards the arts or whatever it is. I'm a big believer in relinquishing control. I'm repeating that to myself again and again and again. So, you know, it internalizes itself. But, you know, as long as you are very clear in your expectations, you are very clear in what you are delegating and what you are doing, and you are very clear in terms of the scope and what you are trying to achieve. Empowering others. You know, I always say being a good leader is not just leading others well, it's empowering others to be the best leaders that they can be.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

And I think in doing so, you grant control. And I think learning to let go of that, learning to say, yes, of course, I want to know all the metrics, I want to know all the projections, I want to see all the spreadsheets. I want to do the budgets. I want to do everything. At the end of the day, I don't have to. And there are people who can do it maybe even better than I can. And I think having that awareness in this industry and having that. That foresight and that trust, I think goes into what we're building from the ground up.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I love that. Well, it certainly seems like you and lighthouse ladies are really trying to make a mark in this industry. And from everything that you've described, it is one that I am all behind. I love everything about it.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Oh, that means so much. Thank you. It's been a process, but we've done some really cool things. We've developed Broadway, we're working on features, on pilots, on a million different things. It's just been really rewarding because in everything that we do, we have that code, that compass that we follow together and we hope to just continue growing, expanding and bringing that joy and collaboration to everyone that we can.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, this has been a joy collaborating with you on this episode, so thank you so much for being here.

Sònia Victoria Werner:

Fantastic. No, the pleasure was all mine. Seriously. Thank you again for having me and for taking the time to chat. It was also wonderful learning about your side of the story.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Thank you so much for joining why I'll Never Make it and don't forget, you can become a subscriber and get bonus conversations by going to why I'll never make it.com and click subscribe. Or just look for the link in the show notes. Be sure to join me next time as we talk more about why I'll Never Make It.