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[0:00] Patrick Oliver Jones: Welcome to National Hispanic Heritage Month here on the podcast, a month-long celebration of Hispanic artists.

[0:08] Patrick Oliver Jones: And today we start off with Jaime Lozano, a musical theater composer from Mexico, who studied at NYU's Tisch School for the Arts.

[0:17] Jaime Lozano: There he not only learned about musical theater writing, but also about himself.

[0:25] Jaime Lozano: I'm learning every single day how to be better because I didn't grow up knowing what was diversity, you know.

[0:33] Jaime Lozano: It's weird because I'm here, I'm like part of that.

[0:36] Jaime Lozano: I'm different.

[0:37] Jaime Lozano: But I didn't know that I was different until I get here.

[0:45] Patrick Oliver Jones: Welcome to Why I'll Never Make It, featuring conversations with fellow artists about the realities of life in the arts, all while challenging the notion of what it means to make it in this business.

[0:58] Patrick Oliver Jones: I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones, and for more information on the podcast and to sign up for the monthly Win Me Newsletter, go to Why I'll Never Make It.com.

[1:10] Patrick Oliver Jones: These next few weeks are going to be a great chance to highlight some amazing Hispanic artists, ranging from composers and dancers to actors and singers.

[1:21] Patrick Oliver Jones: In addition to these interviews, I'll be showcasing important figures in Hispanic history when it comes to the arts.

[1:29] Patrick Oliver Jones: It'll be a chance for you and I to learn about the wonderful artists that have made such an impact not only in Hispanic communities, but to our nation as a whole.

[1:40] Patrick Oliver Jones: Also during these episodes, I'll be highlighting certain facts and details about Hispanic Heritage Month.

[1:47] Patrick Oliver Jones: And to start off, let's go back to the beginning and how this month came to be.

[1:57] Patrick Oliver Jones: It actually began as a commemorative week when it was first introduced in June of 1968 by California Congressman George E. Brown.

[2:06] Patrick Oliver Jones: The push to recognize the contributions of the Latino community had gained momentum throughout the 1960s, when the civil rights movement was at its peak and there was a growing awareness of the United States' multicultural identities.

[2:22] Patrick Oliver Jones: Brown, who represented East Los Angeles and a large portion of the San Gabriel Valley, both heavily populated by members of the Hispanic and Latino communities, he wanted to recognize the role played by those communities throughout American history.

[2:39] Patrick Oliver Jones: And so President Lyndon B. Johnson issued the first Hispanic Heritage Week Presidential Proclamation on September 17, 1968.

[2:49] Patrick Oliver Jones: Twenty years later, in 1987, U.S. Representative Esteban E. Torres, also from California, proposed expanding the observance to cover its current 31-day period.

[3:03] Patrick Oliver Jones: The following year, in 1988, Senator Paul Simon of Illinois submitted a similar bill that successfully passed Congress and was signed into law by President Ronald Reagan.

[3:16] Patrick Oliver Jones: But it wasn't until the following year, on September 14th, 1989, when the new president, George H. W. Bush, became the first president to declare the 31-day period from September 15th to October 15th as National Hispanic Heritage Month.

[3:34] Patrick Oliver Jones: Interestingly enough, Bush had actually been a sponsor of the original Hispanic Heritage Week resolution while serving in the House in 1968.

[3:44] Patrick Oliver Jones: Now, Hispanic Heritage Month is the only national month to start mid-month.

[3:50] Patrick Oliver Jones: Why is that?

[3:51] Patrick Oliver Jones: Well, it starts September 15th to mark the independence anniversary of five countries: Costa Rica, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala.

[4:04] Patrick Oliver Jones: It is followed by Mexico's Independence Day on September 16th and Chile's on September 18th.

[4:10] Patrick Oliver Jones: Now, another important date that falls within this 31-day period is Dia de la Raza, which is celebrated on October 12th and coincides with Columbus Day here in the U.S.

[4:22] Patrick Oliver Jones: Now, this day was originally conceived as a celebration of Hispanic influence in the Americas.

[4:28] Patrick Oliver Jones: But Dia de la Raza has also come to be seen as a counter to Columbus Day.

[4:34] Patrick Oliver Jones: In Mexico specifically, Dia de la Raza was an initiative of José Vasconcelos, who was serving as Mexico's Secretary of Education in 1925 when he wrote the work La Raza Cosmica, or The Cosmic Race.

[4:51] Patrick Oliver Jones: This was an essay promoting the commemoration of Hispanic peoples on October 12th.

[4:58] Patrick Oliver Jones: And it is in Mexico that we begin with my first conversation with Jaime Lozano, a native of Monterey.

[5:07] Patrick Oliver Jones: As a composer, his works have been produced off-Broadway as well as regionally here in the U.S., and internationally in France, Germany, England, and of course his home country of Mexico.

[5:19] Patrick Oliver Jones: Jaime is also known as an arranger, music director, and orchestrator, and he's also adapted, produced, and directed the Spanish World premiere of Jason Robert Brown's The Last Five Years in 2006 and Songs for a New World in 2005.

[5:36] Patrick Oliver Jones: And it was around this time that Jaime came to New York to study at NYU's Tisch School for the Arts.

[5:44] Patrick Oliver Jones: Now you've heard me talk about my association with the graduate musical theater writing program there and the wonderful new works I've had the privilege to be a part of.

[5:55] Patrick Oliver Jones: And Jaime himself holds a distinction in that program as well.

[5:59] Jaime Lozano: What I learned when I was when I got into NYU that I was the first Mexican accepted into that program.

[6:07] Jaime Lozano: And I was, I think, like the third or fourth Latino in that program.

[6:12] Jaime Lozano: And maybe after me, there had been another like I don't know, like four or five Latinos, maybe.

[6:17] Jaime Lozano: So there's not too many Latinos in that program.

[6:21] Jaime Lozano: Now the Tisch Department of Graduate Musical Theatre Writing offers composers and writers a chance to work on their craft, the art of collaboration, rewriting, storytelling, and developing their own unique original voice.

[6:38] Jaime Lozano: And it was the chance to learn these five attributes or skill sets that brought Jaime to New York City for the first time.

[6:47] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, actually, it's thanks to that program that I'm here in New York City now.

[6:52] Jaime Lozano: I arrived the first time in uh 2006.

[6:55] Jaime Lozano: Yeah.

[6:56] Jaime Lozano: I was like 20, 28, 29 years old.

[6:59] Jaime Lozano: And that was my first time in New York City when I came to investigate about the program.

[7:06] Jaime Lozano: I came at that time, I'm gonna be very honest with you.

[7:09] Jaime Lozano: Uh, I didn't speak any English.

[7:11] Jaime Lozano: I was able to read pretty well.

[7:13] Jaime Lozano: I I I read a lot, but in my city I never had the chance to actually speak to each other to other people in English.

[7:21] Jaime Lozano: So when I arrived here in 2006, um and went to the program, I was really afraid.

[7:21] Jaime Lozano: I was really afraid, and I remember a friend came with me, and there was a student at that time, uh and I remember that he told me the most important thing here is collaboration and being able to communicate, but that not that doesn't mean necessarily that you have to speak perfect English.

[7:49] Jaime Lozano: We have people here from Korea, we have people from Italy, from uh China, from all around the world, and many of them don't speak like perfect English.

[7:59] Jaime Lozano: So you need to find a way to just to make you understand, right?

[8:05] Jaime Lozano: So I started my application, and I was accepted uh for the applicant weekend, but there were hundreds of applications, and they selected like 40 something.

[8:17] Jaime Lozano: We came to the applicant weekend.

[8:20] Jaime Lozano: I the applicant weekend was like a kind of um like a little taste of how the program was supposed to be.

[8:28] Jaime Lozano: So we got on Friday and they paid us with another collaborator.

[8:33] Jaime Lozano: Of course, my collaborator, my collaborator just speak English.

[8:37] Jaime Lozano: It was someone from Florida, and by Sunday, I mean two days after that was Friday.

[8:43] Jaime Lozano: By Sunday, we needed to present uh a song.

[8:46] Jaime Lozano: So I remember that we wrote a song actually in Spanglish.

[8:49] Jaime Lozano: He wrote English lyrics, and I wrote Spanish lyrics to the song and the music, of course.

[8:57] Jaime Lozano: And after that, um, I mean, I received the email that I was accepted, but I went back to Mexico and I thought that what that was it because you know education here in the States is really really expensive.

[9:09] Jaime Lozano: And to be honest, I didn't have the money.

[9:12] Jaime Lozano: I mean, for a program like that.

[9:15] Jaime Lozano: And suddenly I received a letter that they gave me, gave me a full tuition scholarship for NYU.

[9:23] Jaime Lozano: And thanks to that, full tuition scholarship is that I'm here in New York City.

[9:27] Jaime Lozano: I mean, that's the only reason because without that, I wouldn't be able to, I mean, to come to the program and to stay here.

[9:36] Jaime Lozano: So I'm really grateful with, I mean, NYU was one of the best experiences I have had in my whole life.

[9:45] Jaime Lozano: Because it just shamed my the way that I see everything.

[9:49] Jaime Lozano: Just while like I'm like a mind changer.

[9:53] Jaime Lozano: I mean, they don't teach you how to write musicals.

[9:57] Jaime Lozano: I mean, you when you came here, you you're actually you are kind of a writer already.

[10:02] Jaime Lozano: I mean, you do know how to write music, you know how to write words, blah, blah, blah.

[10:05] Jaime Lozano: But what they teach you is how to collaborate.

[10:09] Jaime Lozano: I think that's the key in musical theory, collaboration.

[10:12] Jaime Lozano: And that was that was something that in our Latin culture is not too common.

[10:20] Jaime Lozano: I mean, we are like a very machista, you know, like a like our culture is very different.

[10:26] Jaime Lozano: And we don't hear very often the word collaboration in in my country.

[10:31] Jaime Lozano: We are like, we want to do everything by ourselves.

[10:34] Jaime Lozano: I mean, we want to be the best.

[10:35] Jaime Lozano: And oh, we have this this.

[10:37] Jaime Lozano: We we used to say, if I don't do it, it's not gonna be right.

[10:42] Jaime Lozano: I need to do it by myself because I don't trust someone else to do it.

[10:45] Jaime Lozano: But I need to do it by myself.

[10:47] Jaime Lozano: We used to say that in Mexico.

[10:49] Jaime Lozano: I mean, a lot of people say that.

[10:50] Jaime Lozano: And then here I learned that it's not about that.

[10:53] Jaime Lozano: It's it's completely completely the opposite.

[10:55] Jaime Lozano: It's you need to learn to delegate, to trust in each other.

[11:01] Jaime Lozano: And thanks to that, trust is that an amazing product came, you know.

[11:09] Jaime Lozano: Because what Tish does is they bring together the composer, the lyricist, a director, a music director, and then these various actors like myself.

[11:19] Patrick Oliver Jones: In bringing together all that, did that solidify or did that help you in focusing that story?

[11:26] Jaime Lozano: You know, since you were able to kind of I guess bounce off so many other people.

[11:30] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, definitely.

[11:31] Jaime Lozano: I I remember at the beginning, I didn't want to rewrite, for example.

[11:36] Jaime Lozano: I I don't like rewriting.

[11:37] Jaime Lozano: So I remember that I mean, I have this critic critic or something that uh a teacher or classmate that thought, oh, maybe this could work better in this way, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

[11:48] Jaime Lozano: And and I have problems with, but I like it this way.

[11:51] Jaime Lozano: But I so I have to learn during the process to disconnect that.

[11:56] Jaime Lozano: It's not what about I like, of course.

[11:58] Jaime Lozano: I have to like what I do, but I need to find a way to also be clear, to be entertaining.

[12:04] Jaime Lozano: I mean, to to reach different goals, not just that the only goal is not that I have to like what I do.

[12:11] Jaime Lozano: You know, there's many other goals and many other things that you need to achieve, like clarity, like uh like be entertaining, but like tell a story, blah, blah, blah.

[12:21] Jaime Lozano: So at the beginning, I I I had a lot of problems like like with regretting and changing things, and of course, all these process, I have the program is two years.

[12:32] Jaime Lozano: I mean, you you have to write.

[12:34] Jaime Lozano: The first the first year you have to write with a different partner like every every week or every two weeks.

[12:40] Jaime Lozano: And the second year, you have just one partner for the whole year, and you write your thesis.

[12:46] Jaime Lozano: Um when they when they brought the directors and the performers, and you learn that people can see what you do in different ways.

[12:58] Jaime Lozano: That for me was like magic, you know, like, oh, I never thought about that.

[13:04] Jaime Lozano: And you are, I mean, what I did with my music is giving you like it's triggering like another idea that I didn't have when I actually composed or write this.

[13:15] Jaime Lozano: I mean, it opened my mind, like knowing that I need to be able to use all those different ideas from all these people around me to make my music better, you know.

[13:27] Jaime Lozano: And that's how musical theater works.

[13:30] Jaime Lozano: I mean, you have all these collaborators.

[13:32] Jaime Lozano: I mean, if you have director, choreographer, orchestrator, arranger, uh, it's like many, many collaborators, and they have voice.

[13:42] Jaime Lozano: I mean, they they they need something from you, and they need something from the story. So you have to be very open and to learn to okay, how can I be a less like egocentric? You know, like I need to be very humble, and uh it's not about that I I want this song to be the best song. It's not that I want this song to be the best music. I I need this song to tell a story and to have a purpose. Yeah, it's that combination that we all have to be confident in our abilities, certainly, but at the same time be giving and be able to give and take with other people.

[14:22] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, you have to learn to compromise. And I say, I mean, every collab every collaboration is like a marriage, like a being married with someone. Sometimes you have to divorce after a couple of months or a couple of days. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't mean that any single collaboration is gonna work out. So you during the process, you learn what kind of people you collaborate better with. And then you have to make your decisions. Another problem that I have at that time, and even still now, I don't know how to say no. So when someone asks me, ah, do you do you want to write music for this? Or do you want to do the yes, yes, yes, yes? And then I have like a 20, 50 projects or songs, and and I really during the process that I know I'm not being able to collaborate in a good way with that person, but I didn't take the time to learn that before.

[15:17] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right.

[15:18] Jaime Lozano: So it's I mean, now I think I'm doing better with that, and and I'm trying to just take a few projects and not not just say yes to everything and every single person that asked. But yeah, it was it was that was another thing that I was struggling at that time a lot. Was that difficult for you to be able to delegate part of the song or this part of the lyric for that collaboration when you first started?

[15:29] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, it was it was difficult because I I I wasn't used to do that. I mean, in Mexico, I I was I was I used to do everything actually. I I direct, I translate, I write music, I write lyrics, I sometimes I design the lighting, I design I mean, because we don't have an industry in Mexico. Like in most in my city, there's not like a like a lot of professional musical theater. So I started doing musical theater just by myself, just put it by myself, putting a group of people together, you know, like a knocking door, okay I'm doing this, I need this I need your support. And I mean I I start I was a producer as well.

[16:29] Jaime Lozano: So I I I learned how to get money from different companies and I I have so I have to put everything together. Well it sounds like you got quite an education in and of yourself just learning all those different facets of the business.

[16:42] Jaime Lozano: Definitely that that was very helpful before I got here I mean because I already knew like a little bit about everything. But it it's like when you try to do everything you don't focus on one thing. So obviously everything was not at the best level you know it was maybe it was okay as something not even okay because I was trying to do everything and and I learned here that that wasn't the right way. I mean that you need to have the best person do it doing every single thing you know I think that's the key and that's why musical theater is this big industry in in the States I mean in Mexico we don't have that culture about collaboration.

[17:22] Jaime Lozano: Not even in the Latin in any Latino country it's we are very hard about collaboration. It's like like we we kind of try to not collaborate too much actually. Do you think that that's uh part of the reason why you say it's not as big of an industry in Mexico specifically because people are trying to do it all on their own and so that they they can only reach so far?

[17:45] Jaime Lozano: Definitely, definitely that's one of the reasons. Uh and and I think collaboration is not only key in musical theater. I mean, it's it's actually a very important part in every single like profession, you know, not just musical theater, like even like as a politician, as a lawyer, um, but that was something that I learned being here in New York City.

[18:07] Jaime Lozano: Uh and at the beginning was it was harder because it was collaboration in a language that I didn't speak. So every single day after after classes, I remember that I had this terrible headache. Because I mean, they were speaking in English the whole time, and I guess I I was just catching like maybe 20% of what they were saying.

[18:34] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah.

[18:34] Jaime Lozano: So every week I asked one of the of the faculty, can we sit and talk about what what happened during the whole week? And then I sat with this with this uh teacher, Fred Carr was his name. I sat with Fred, and then we we talked about the week and about every single assignment, but in a like in a slower way. And I remember also that I I used to ask to all my collaborators, you know what? Send me an email.

[19:01] Jaime Lozano: Okay, yeah, yeah. Send me. I didn't want to talk with, I mean, of course, I I talk with them, and sometimes I to be honest, I didn't understand them, and I was just like nodding, you know, oh yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. So send me an email with everything we talk, please. And thanks to the email, everything was clearer to me. Because of course, when I was reading, I I I was able to understand everything.

[19:26] Jaime Lozano: And the worst thing is that when they suddenly I I have to, I do work study at at uh at my school. So I have to work in the office. And one of the things till today, one of the things that I hate the most is talking by phone with someone in English.

[20:00] Jaime Lozano: Or, you know, so it's even harder for me to really understand. It was now it's I think I'm doing a little bit better after uh almost that was 2007, so 13 years, right?

[20:14] Jaime Lozano: 13 years after I got a little bit better. So besides obviously your English getting better as you say, did your work as a composer and a writer also improve during that time?

[20:27] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Because before I as I told you, I mean, I was just thinking like and on everything, like in directing and all that. And when I was at school, I just want I just have one one very simple and at the same time very hard assignment that it was to write music and to tell a story. That was it. So the what they as I told you, they they they teach you how to collaborate and how to tell stories through music.

[20:59] Jaime Lozano: So I already knew how to write music and how to compose, but it's not the same. You know, there's a lot of like uh great like pop composers or fall composers that then they asked them to write musical theater, and it's it's another monster, it's another animal, it's very different. Not because you have the best, you have the number the top one billboard song, that doesn't mean that you're gonna write a good musical theater song.

[21:28] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right.

[21:29] Jaime Lozano: So definitely uh learning from all my classmates at the time, because everyone has a different uh background. They came from different cities from different countries. So we have like a very different idea. So trying in this case, putting two or three people together to tell the same story when all these three people came from different backgrounds, different ideas.

[21:58] Jaime Lozano: So the the first uh the first goal is how are we gonna tell the same story? Right. And not that the lyrics person trying to tell one story and the music person trying to tell another story. No, no, we have to tell the same story so the story could can be clear, no, and definitely my clarity improves a lot during that time.

[22:24] Jaime Lozano: There's this to say um less is more, to be honest. I'm more in the more side. I'm very complicated with my music. I I have a lot of problems trying to simplify when I'm when I'm writing. So uh my music has been kind of complex all the time.

[22:43] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah, as a singer in that program, I've definitely seen that that some composers are are very good, as you say. Maybe they're better at a pop melody, so it's a very simple melody, it's easy for a singer to get, and then you'll have composers where the the chords are all over the place, the the melody kind of goes here, there bounces, and then the accompaniment may be something slightly different that doesn't help the singer.

[23:06] Jaime Lozano: And so I've been on both sides of those kind of composers.

[23:09] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, but definitely collaborating with other people has helped a lot, so I can bring that complexity down a little bit, you know. And when it comes to complexity, there are a few things more dense and confusing than the immigration system here in the US.

[23:32] Jaime Lozano: And it has certainly been a hot button issue going back many years, in fact, decades. The US is the world's leader when it comes to immigrants. We have more immigrants living in the United States than any other country has immigrants alone. We also have a very extensive and complex immigration system.

[23:50] Patrick Oliver Jones: That was Mark Hugo Lopez, director of global migration and demography research at the Pew Research Center in Washington, DC, highlighting the fact that while it may be a complex system, it is still vitally important to the growth of this country.

[24:06] Jaime Lozano: And Jaime came face to face with this system as he began the visa process to stay here in the US. I came to NYU, then I applied for my artist visa, and my lawyer wasn't a scam. And I lost all my money, and they denied me the pizza. I went back to Mexico, and I have to stay there like from 2011, and I came back in 2015 with my wife.

[24:33] Jaime Lozano: I mean, I I went to Mexico after NYU because I lost my visa and I I met my wife there. She's all now my wife. Then we came for our honeymoon. We were supposed to be here from December 7, 2015 to January 7, 2016. And in January 5th, I told her, and what if we stay? And we don't go back to Mexico. And we have already our apartment and everything in Mexico City.

[25:03] Jaime Lozano: And we decided to stay, just like that. And a few days later, a very good friend, Alex Lacamore, called me. I have a project for you. I need your help. Are you gonna be in New York City? Of course, I'm gonna be in New York City. And I went to the Richard Royer Theater and he told me, okay, I need you to do orchestrations with me for this call for this show called Carmen La Cubana is gonna premiere in Paris as well.

[25:17] Jaime Lozano: And he told me, okay, do you know how to work in Finale, right? I didn't. I I just only I I used to work just in C values. Is that another music software? And I told him, yeah, of course, I know finale, yeah, of course. So when I I say yes and I start learning about finale.

[25:46] Jaime Lozano: You know, exactly. It sounds like a lot of things that have come your way have been you saying yes and then figuring out how to make that yes happen.

[25:55] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, like almost everything in my life has been that way. And because I say yes, I'm here. I mean, thanks to that kit with Alex, I was able to stay in New York City and to apply now for my artist visa. Uh and now we got the visa like in like in 2016, I mean, a few years ago.

[26:16] Jaime Lozano: And uh and from then, I mean, I have been still working with Alex in different projects and with different people. And it's just about saying, I mean, I I'm just like that, just I just say yes, and then I figure out how to do it.

[26:30] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah I was taken by your your bio when I went to your website and just the list of of projects that you've worked on the people that you've worked with so I can definitely see that you tend to say yes to a lot of different things and you've gone back to Mexico a lot you've done work here in New York one of the ones that had a special connection with me is that you went to Birmingham Alabama my hometown and that was commissioning a new work correct?

[26:30] Jaime Lozano: Yeah that was like a very special project because it was this university the University of Alabama in Birmingham they were developing a new musical but they were actually doing like an like a big production production of that musical we that we were developing the musical for a couple of years I I flow down there like every six months to have like a reading with the students and then at the end of those couple of years they did this actually it it looks like a Broadway production I mean like with sets and costumes they was like a very we have a like a I did orchestration for a 13 pieces orchestra I mean it was like like a huge huge project.

[27:39] Jaime Lozano: I mean I know that there's a lot of universities that they develop new musicals but they do like stage readings or productions in a black box you know and it was like a like a like a big project and that I'm very proud of that project actually we're still working we do?

[28:02] Patrick Oliver Jones: What do we do?

[28:04] Jaime Lozano: What do we do?

[28:05] Patrick Oliver Jones: What do we do?

[28:06] Jaime Lozano: What do we do?

[28:07] Patrick Oliver Jones: What do we do?

[28:09] Jaime Lozano: Now I assume with the two years you said that you were kind of working on that. Did the actors that were in the piece did they change as students came and went from the university?

[28:18] Jaime Lozano: Some of them changed, but you know, I mean, the program, I guess the program was like four years. It's like a like a regular bachelor, it's four years. So most of the students were the same during the process.

[28:30] Jaime Lozano: Yeah. And uh I was really surprised. I mean, the students were a very uh they were a key part in the process, and we got like a great feedback from the students um about how to grab rewrite the show. I mean, it was really really helpful.

[28:47] Jaime Lozano: So in that one, they really were a part of that collaboration and writing the piece in the direction that it took.

[28:53] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, exactly. For example, the first readings, they were reading the scenes, but my collaborator and myself, we used to sing the songs.

[29:01] Jaime Lozano: So they read and when we jumped into a song and they were singing, and at the end of the reading, like like in a table reading, they start just like giving feedback and jumping with ideas, you know.

[29:14] Jaime Lozano: I'm I mean, some of them may be crazy, and other one like like a great idea, and and that was great for them because we had I mean a couple of table readings with them.

[29:26] Jaime Lozano: So they were learning as we go that we were rewriting the show. Sometimes an actor doesn't realize that, you know, don't realize that that is they think that the show is done, and that's it.

[29:38] Jaime Lozano: But when you are in the process writing a show during the two years, and these students are reading a different draft of the script with different songs every few months, so they were like a really understanding the process of creating a musical.

[29:55] Jaime Lozano: I come to tell you a story to answer a question to take in Toby to breathe alive.

[30:07] Jaime Lozano: I was almost erased to face the truth that we haven't yet.

[30:16] Patrick Oliver Jones: And so I assume that collaboration that you were learning through Tish really came whenever you were um in Birmingham working on that piece.

[30:25] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, definitely. I mean, everything that I learned that I know about collaboration and uh musical theater, I mean not everything, but many of what I am as a as a writer, as a musical theater writer, is thanks to I mean to that program.

[30:40] Jaime Lozano: And uh my collaborator actually for that project in Birmingham, he was in Tish as well.

[30:45] Jaime Lozano: Uh Tommy Newman, he's an amazing writer, one of the my favorite writers.

[30:50] Jaime Lozano: Um, and we we actually wrote another show a few years before in 2011.

[30:57] Jaime Lozano: We did a an off-broadway show for Theatre World USA called uh The Yellow Grid Road was a Latin adaptation of The Witcher of Us.

[31:07] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, we did that show together, and thanks to that show, he actually called me. Do you want to write another show with me?

[31:12] Jaime Lozano: And then I went to Alabama and we we wrote that show together.

[31:15] Patrick Oliver Jones: And of course, you said yes.

[31:17] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, of course.

[31:19] Jaime Lozano: No, but with him, I I'm not able to say no to him because I mean, it's just it's one of the most amazing experiences to collaborate with sometimes with him.

[31:27] Jaime Lozano: I mean, he he's amazing.

[31:29] Patrick Oliver Jones: That's wonderful. Now, with you being in Birmingham, and you know, I was raised in the South. The South certainly has a certain uh, I guess, history, an unfortunate history when it comes to discrimination. Did you see any of that while you were there in Birmingham?

[31:44] Jaime Lozano: Um, not really, because I didn't have like a many contact with, I mean, outside the campus.

[31:50] Jaime Lozano: But let me tell you, this musical that we actually developed in Birmingham is a story, it's an African-American story.

[32:01] Jaime Lozano: So I was really um shocked by the fact that I started learning about Alabama culture that you say that unfortunately that there's this people that doesn't understand we need to be grateful for all the diversity and all that, right?

[32:17] Jaime Lozano: I mean um and uh this I mean that university was was doing a great effort to bring this story to display.

[32:28] Jaime Lozano: I mean, it was a a story, I think a hard story for a city of I mean for a for a community like like Birmingham and like Alabama, but I did I think the show did great, and the people was really grateful to see the story on stage, and we we got great feedback.

[32:43] Jaime Lozano: I mean, um I didn't see anything like weird in in that in that way, yeah.

[32:49] Patrick Oliver Jones: That's good. And you know what? This thing about diversity, it's it's also also something new for me as well.

[32:56] Jaime Lozano: I didn't learn about diversity till I got to New York City.

[33:00] Jaime Lozano: I'm originally from a city, uh there when there's no diversity at all.

[33:06] Jaime Lozano: It's it's it's all Mexican. There's very little uh from outside countries, correct?

[33:12] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, yeah.

[33:13] Jaime Lozano: So I didn't know what was to be in a subway train with people all colors and accents, and you know, uh that was like like a huge, like a huge change for me when I came to New York City.

[33:28] Jaime Lozano: And I'm still there, even I I'm I'm a diverse person.

[33:33] Jaime Lozano: I mean, I because I'm an immigrant here. Sometimes I don't know how to deal with that.

[33:38] Jaime Lozano: I'm learning every single day about everything that is going on.

[33:42] Jaime Lozano: Um, like like right now, I mean, with all this the movement uh Black Lives Matter and uh feminines and uh I mean with all that I'm learning every single day how to be better because I didn't grow up like knowing what what was diversity.

[33:59] Jaime Lozano: You know, it it's weird because I here I'm like like part of that. I'm different, but I didn't know that I was different until I get here.

[34:08] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right, right.

[34:08] Patrick Oliver Jones: Because yeah, because in in your hometown, in your home country, you were one of the many.

[34:13] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, exactly. Speaking to that, a lot of your work has been going back to Mexico. Because once you came to New York, you you got the education, you started writing with other people, collaborating, as you said, but then you would go back to Mexico.

[34:28] Patrick Oliver Jones: What did you take from your experiences and what you've learned here in New York? What did you take back with you to Mexico?

[34:36] Jaime Lozano: In Mexico and in my hometown city, I'm originally from Monterey, Monterey, Mexico. It's a city in the north of Mexico.

[34:41] Jaime Lozano: Actually, it's like four hours driving from Texas. It's not that far from the from the border.

[34:49] Jaime Lozano: Uh, because we don't have a lot of musical theater. So one of my goals as an artist has been to find a way to give back to my community.

[34:59] Jaime Lozano: I mean, to my original community. I mean, now my community is also the here in New York City, I mean, the musical theater community, the immigrant community.

[35:08] Jaime Lozano: But my first community is is the place where I grew up, and that's um Monterey.

[35:14] Jaime Lozano: So during the last three or four years, I have been able to premiere a different uh new musical in Spanish in my hometown.

[35:24] Patrick Oliver Jones: Oh wow.

[35:25] Jaime Lozano: That was a project that I was doing like every single like May, June, I was going to Monterey and premiere a new musical.

[35:33] Jaime Lozano: And also uh doing like workshops and master classes for actors and for writers, uh and for actually many of the people who came to my workshop, there they don't really are actors.

[35:47] Jaime Lozano: Maybe they are people that they have another profession, but they like acting, you know, and they do like a hobby.

[35:54] Jaime Lozano: So what I tell them doing this workshop that this doesn't mean that you're gonna be an actor, but maybe you're gonna be a better audience because of this.

[36:02] Jaime Lozano: Because you're learning how to what is the process as an actor, you know, all that.

[36:07] Jaime Lozano: So uh it's one of my I I just need to give back to my city, to my community, to my country, uh, because even I'm doing a living here in New York City, and I'm very grateful with with New York City and with this community.

[36:23] Jaime Lozano: Uh I need to be able to never forget where I came from.

[36:28] Jaime Lozano: So I think it's important never lose that connection and always find different ways to give back.

[36:36] Patrick Oliver Jones: What would you say is one of the best examples or stories of you going and being able to give back to your hometown?

[36:43] Jaime Lozano: Oh, I have I have had the chance to work with all kinds of people.

[36:47] Jaime Lozano: I mean, from a teenager, 12 years old girl in a city named Chihuahua, that when she starts singing, she seemed like the best Broadway performer.

[36:58] Jaime Lozano: You know, it's like a I couldn't believe that the amazing voice that that girl had.

[37:03] Jaime Lozano: It was like a like unbelievable.

[37:06] Jaime Lozano: And working with people like a 60, 70 years old, that one of their passions were to sing, but they have never been able to do it because they work in an office because they have a business, blah, blah, blah.

[37:23] Jaime Lozano: And it's now when they are like 60 years old, they don't need to take care of their sons, of their daughters, that they are more free, that they start actually singing and acting.

[37:37] Jaime Lozano: So giving having the chance to be in the same room with a 60 years old woman being completely honest and vulnerable and trying to tell a story through a song is one of the most amazing experiences I had.

[38:18] Jaime Lozano: I mean, that my my mostly in Mexico, a lot of people sing.

[38:22] Jaime Lozano: I mean, I know a lot of people that have great voices.

[38:25] Jaime Lozano: And my my um my goal there when I go is not let is not teach them how to sing, it's more about the storytelling part.

[38:34] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right.

[38:35] Jaime Lozano: You know.

[38:35] Jaime Lozano: So then going one year after and seeing the same person now, like a really open, being more secure about herself, you know, knowing better what she's doing, singing and acting and telling a story, being very confident.

[38:54] Jaime Lozano: When at one year before, maybe she was a little bit you know, like a teammate and she didn't want to sing.

[39:00] Jaime Lozano: So it's amazing what art can do with all kinds of people.

[39:06] Jaime Lozano: And as if Jaime wasn't busy enough, he has also translated works into Spanish, including his own, like Lightning Strikes Twice and a song cycle called Never Ending Line.

[39:19] Jaime Lozano: It's a song cycle about a female experience.

[39:22] Jaime Lozano: And I had the honor to collaborate with nine different female lyricists.

[39:27] Jaime Lozano: So imagine I mean it was a great experience for me learning from all these different female lyrics from all different backgrounds and ages.

[39:35] Jaime Lozano: I mean, like a very different between themselves.

[39:37] Jaime Lozano: So every song was a different story.

[39:39] Jaime Lozano: I mean, it was like a different take and in that female experience.

[39:45] Jaime Lozano: Originally, the show on stage is just four actresses singing all these songs.

[39:50] Jaime Lozano: Every song is a different different women's story.

[39:54] Jaime Lozano: But for the album, we we decided to invite as many, many, many performers as we can.

[40:12] Jaime Lozano: And then it went to Mexico, and then finally it came here to New York City.

[40:17] Jaime Lozano: So it has certainly had quite a journey from its small beginnings.

[40:22] Jaime Lozano: Look, that show, we wrote that show in 2016.

[40:27] Jaime Lozano: We actually premiere in 2017.

[40:29] Jaime Lozano: I had this show at the New York musical festival called Children of Salt.

[40:34] Jaime Lozano: And my music director at that time was from France, an amazing musical theater director named Geraldine Anello.

[40:44] Jaime Lozano: So she had this connection with a company in Paris, and they want me to do a concert of my songs.

[40:52] Jaime Lozano: And then I told them, what if instead of doing a concert of my song, we just create a new show.

[40:59] Jaime Lozano: It sounds like that's what you do.

[41:01] Jaime Lozano: Whatever is the simplest way.

[41:03] Patrick Oliver Jones: No, Jaime wants to do the hardest way.

[41:06] Jaime Lozano: Exactly.

[41:07] Jaime Lozano: My wife hates me because of that because I always say, Oh, I have a new idea.

[41:11] Jaime Lozano: Wait, wait, wait, wait, we're still working on all these other ideas.

[41:15] Jaime Lozano: But that's the only way to do it. I mean, for example, I mean, we went to Paris to premiere the show because it's actually a company that they tried to take like uh American musical theater to Paris.

[41:30] Jaime Lozano: Okay. So it was in English. Um of course they put us like like in an apartment and that, but we have to pay our flights and all that. And I remember I told my wife, I'm gonna say yes, and then I didn't have money to pay the rent, and I decided to buy the ticket, the flight tickets, instead of paying the rent.

[41:52] Jaime Lozano: Because I say we need to go there, and we so I I bought the ticket, and a couple of days before I f I after, sorry, a couple of days after I find a way to get the money to pay the rent. So I paid the rent, but we had the ticket. So we went to Paris.

[42:06] Jaime Lozano: We have a great um uh a good reception. Uh then I premiered the show in Mexico in Spanish. It was one of the shows that I just told you that I used to go like every year to premiere a new show.

[42:20] Jaime Lozano: Right. We did it in Spanish. And then you did the translation yourself, correct?

[42:26] Jaime Lozano: I did a relation with my wife. Yeah, yeah, with my wife. We work together in many, many ways. She's an actress, an amazing actress and singer and director.

[42:36] Jaime Lozano: So we we we collaborate a lot. I mean, it's very hard because we are we are at home and we don't know what is the border now between collaborating as artists or as you know, husband and wife, you know.

[42:47] Jaime Lozano: It's like it's very tricky. But um so we did the translation, we did a show in Spanish, and then I got this crazy idea. Oh, you know, we already have the songs in English and in Spanish. We should do a double album in English and in Spanish.

[43:06] Jaime Lozano: So we I started like looking for as many singers as possible, and we did this amazing, this like double album.

[43:15] Jaime Lozano: So you did each song twice in English and in Spanish.

[43:19] Jaime Lozano: Exactly. In English, we have like amazing Broadway performers like Betsy Walsh, Daphne Rubin Vega, Ariel Jacobs, uh Emily Skex, uh Natalie Weiss, like the best female musical theater performers that I know.

[43:37] Jaime Lozano: Um and in Spanish, we we got like the best musical theater, Mexican musical theater performers. Uh and then after doing it in Mexico, we came to New York City and we did it off Broadway.

[43:49] Jaime Lozano: But it was kind of a self-production. I mean, I I I got some producers, uh, I produced by myself as well. I was putting everything together with my wife.

[44:00] Jaime Lozano: The experience was amazing, but we did a show during the summer in a theater in the Greenwich village. So there was no audience. You know, because during the summer, all New Yorkers are out, and tourists doesn't want to go down there.

[44:20] Jaime Lozano: I mean, tourists go to Broadway, they don't go to off-Broadway. So we really struggled to find uh to find um an audience. And we have to end the run earlier. And I I had producers from Mexico that they were putting the money, and suddenly they stopped putting the money, and then I have all the people, you know, like above me, like, and I have to like decide to pay by myself all that like all the debt that I have with all with the actresses and all that.

[44:54] Jaime Lozano: It was like a really really hard because I mean suddenly the producers, I mean, I didn't get more money from the producers, and we had to stop the run. And the actress said, Yeah, we will stop the run, but but what about the money? You know, you and they were like asking for what they deserve.

[45:14] Jaime Lozano: And I was trying to what I'm gonna do. I mean, I don't have any money either. I mean, I I already lose like a lot of money. What I'm gonna do, and and just I just found a way like to asking for money here and there and putting money together and uh maybe like eating a little bit less, and and I pay one actress and pay another one, and you know, and just it it was hard because at that time it's it's I mean, no one has money.

[45:40] Jaime Lozano: It was really, really hard. I mean, we have a like a problem at uh at home because we were paying other people and we didn't have money for us. It was it was like a hard, hard stage, our face. Um that was the summer of 2017.

[45:58] Jaime Lozano: Yeah. But you know what? Uh everything happened for a reason. And um we did the amazing album with amazing performers that it actually uh the album is a benefit to an amazing female or women organization, also called Maestra, Maestra Music.

[46:18] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yes, I I've had Georgia Stitt on the show, and she got to talk about that wonderful organization.

[46:23] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, she's the best, and that organization is like amazing. Uh so I wanted to be an ally uh and find a way um to do something, to do something to to help. I mean, in in any way that I can.

[46:39] Jaime Lozano: Uh so we decided to because all the people involved in the album, they donated their time and talent. All these amazing Broadway performance, uh performers and Mexican performers.

[46:50] Jaime Lozano: So uh I I talked with Julia, um she was really nice, and she wrote actually the linear note for the album. And and we did the album as a benefit for them. I mean, you know, nowadays it's hard to sell albums, but any few couple of dollars are better than nothing, you know.

[47:08] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right, right. I mean, financial struggles and money matters are something that all of us artists have at one time. You know, there's from time to time we'll get those jobs that that pay a lot, and we're grateful for them, and we try to stash the money away, but a lot of times it's jobs that we're doing for the love of it, which it sounds like that a lot of your projects that you take on are for the love of it or because of the people that you're working with.

[47:30] Patrick Oliver Jones: And so those in-between times, how have you found a way to make a living while you're making your art?

[47:38] Jaime Lozano: I I'm very lucky. I'm very bl I feel very blessed because uh my last survival job was selling tickets on Timesquare. That was my last survival job, and it was actually that the year, the month my my son was born.

[47:55] Jaime Lozano: I'm talking at um it was September, a little bit before before September, because I quit when my son was born. So uh like at the summer of 2016, uh after that, after my son was born, I decided I didn't want to do any other job that wasn't music related.

[48:14] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right.

[48:15] Jaime Lozano: One of the things that I try to do mostly now, it's just doing commission shows. Uh in any any way, the any kind of commission. I mean, sometimes you just get a few thousand dollars for a commission and you work on that project forever.

[48:30] Jaime Lozano: I mean, that doesn't mean that I mean it's not it's not really I mean that money versus time, it doesn't and yeah. You know, because I've gotten paid really well, and I've gotten paid not really well, but you know, it's the same amount of work.

[48:43] Jaime Lozano: So it it really does come down to loving what you do and that passion that you bring to it.

[48:49] Jaime Lozano: Yeah, because at the end, I mean, and and this is something that um that I have learned from from the best ones. I mean, you have to be passionate about why you're writing. I mean, that's the only way. Because if you're writing to have the next Broadway show to be successful, I mean, it's not gonna happen.

[49:05] Jaime Lozano: You you just have to be passionate about the stories you're telling. Uh so I I try to do everything. I mean, just commissions. I do coach, coach, um, I coach actors with uh single lessons, uh, workshop, master classes, uh music projects like albums, arrangements, orchestrations, like like all that.

[49:27] Jaime Lozano: I I'm just like that, just I just say yes, and then I figure out how to do it.

[49:36] Patrick Oliver Jones: Jaime is such a wonderful illustration on how much we can accomplish when we approach obstacles and challenges head on. Because our lives and certainly our work as artists will never be free of hardship or even failure. But it is our willingness and our drive to keep going that will ultimately mark our level of success and achievement.

[49:58] Patrick Oliver Jones: And it is that determination and work ethic that leads me into this week's focus on two Hispanic icons. Emilio and Gloria Estefan.

[50:10] Patrick Oliver Jones: Both of these artists not only found success in their own careers, with a total of 26 Grammy Awards between them, but they have paved the way for so many contemporary Latin artists like Ricky Martin, Shakira, and Jennifer Lopez. But reaching their level of success certainly didn't come easy.

[50:31] Patrick Oliver Jones: Gloria Stefan came to Miami with her parents in 1959, part of a wave of immigrant exiles coming from Cuba who weren't always welcomed with open arms.

[50:46] Patrick Oliver Jones: I actually remember my mom walking up to a place that said, No children, no pets, no cubans. That was she turned around. The first music I sang ever in my life was in Spanish. My mom, my grandma. It was old Cuban music. Old, like my grandma's time.

[51:06] Patrick Oliver Jones: And then the songs that I sang, you know, in high school for my friends, Carol King, James Taylor, Elton John. These were the people that were influencing me. So growing up in the States with pop music and having my Cuban culture, it was very easy to blend it.

[51:25] Patrick Oliver Jones: It was exciting to show the public that the Latin sound, the Latin feel, the Latin movement had power, and that you could promote your culture that way. I think ultimately for any artist, um, the most beautiful thing is to promote your culture. Because you do kind of stand for more than just you.

[51:55] Patrick Oliver Jones: Not only were they the first married couple to be awarded the prize, but they were also the first musicians of Hispanic descent. In an interview with Carla Hayden, the librarian of Congress, Emilio Estefan talked about the difficulties early in their career.

[52:13] Patrick Oliver Jones: It was so difficult for us at the beginning of uh coming to America in a way because we came with a different sound and a different language in a way, and uh it was hard. It was hard. But you know, one thing that I always feel proud that, you know, he what they opened the doors to us in such an incredible way, and they they closed a lot of doors.

[52:31] Patrick Oliver Jones: I said this will never work, but we believe in that we have so many great people in the United States, and you know, something they open a lot of doors and the and the people decide, decide. That's why we got so many songs that became number one.

[52:44] Patrick Oliver Jones: In fact, Gloria Stefan has achieved 31 number one hits and has sold more than 100 million records worldwide. And Emilio was one of the founding leaders of the Latin Grammy Awards and was inducted into the Latin Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2015.

[53:00] Emilio Estefan: I wish my mom and my dad would be alive because they really pushed me in a way and they told me one thing: do what makes you happy. And you know something, that's what I've done all my life. And do what makes me happy is making music.

[53:16] Emilio Estefan: And I can tell you, every dream can come true as long as you dream and you do what is uh what is right for you. People have a lot of dreams, they don't have money, they have a differ different uh culture, and uh they have the the way to do and bring something totally new, and they never forget where they came from.

[53:35] Emilio Estefan: We felt me and Gloria that we brought a lot of Latin America and South America to us because they support us all the from the beginning. I know everybody that comes to sometimes to this, not to this country, to any country. I mean, it's hard because you come with the different languages and you come with a different culture.

[53:51] Emilio Estefan: But I'm gonna tell you something, I want people to know that this country is the best country in the whole world, and they open doors, and they are good people in this country, and that's what I'm so proud to call Cuban America. You know, you're blessed, and we're blessed to live in a free country. So, you know, we have to work hard, and we need as a community to get together to you know to do great things.

[54:10] Patrick Oliver Jones: Thank you so much for joining me on this first episode celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month. Stay tuned for a bonus episode with Jaime as we talk about his own experiences as a voting member of the Grammys and Latin Grammys. He'll also be answering the final five questions. I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones. Join me next time as we talk more about why I'll never make it.