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[0:08] Patrick Oliver Jones: Welcome to Why I'll Never Make It, a lighthearted podcast that takes a revealing look at a career in the entertainment industry, featuring stories and conversations with those on stage and backstage, on screen and behind the scenes.

[0:23] Patrick Oliver Jones: To keep up with all the guests and episodes, go to the website winmepodcast.com.

[0:29] Patrick Oliver Jones: There you will find ways to follow and connect via Twitter and Instagram, as well as ways to support and donate to this podcast.

[0:37] Patrick Oliver Jones: I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones, and this is Why I'll Never Make It.

[0:49] Patrick Oliver Jones: Hello and welcome to another episode of Why I'll Never Make It. This is part two of my focus on auditions. And today I have with me casting director John Ort.

[1:01] Patrick Oliver Jones: And I first met him about two years ago when he cast me in the reading of a new musical called Parallel Lines, which we presented at the Dramatist Guild here in New York.

[1:10] Patrick Oliver Jones: But apart from casting stage productions at places like Joe's Pub, the Cherry Lane Theater, and the New York Friends Festival, he also was the former manager of casting at ABC Primetime.

[1:21] Patrick Oliver Jones: He's worked on CBS's Bull, NBC's Blind Spot, and his associate credits include season one of the series Ozark, which was on Netflix, for which he won an Artios Award for Outstanding Casting.

[1:35] Patrick Oliver Jones: And he's also worked on feature films and even a music video. So he has covered the gamut when it comes to casting here in the city.

[1:43] Patrick Oliver Jones: And I join him today at his office in Union Square to talk about auditions and the art of casting. John, thank you so much for being here on the show.

[1:59] John Ort: Thank you for having me.

[2:00] Patrick Oliver Jones: Absolutely. So as we get started here, just give a brief history of how and why you got into casting.

[2:07] John Ort: I originally was an actor and went to Fordham University, trained here in the city, at the Lincoln Center campus, and at that time really wanted to know what was going on on the other side of the table.

[2:25] John Ort: And so at the time I did an internship both with a talent agency and a casting office. I really wanted to see what both sides of that were.

[2:35] Patrick Oliver Jones: At this point, did you have any idea that you would maybe want to go into those areas, or you still wanted to be an actor at this point?

[2:41] John Ort: Yeah, I had no concept of that at all. I just, you know, as an actor felt that you're working on your craft and you're training how to be an actor, but you're not necessarily when you're in school always getting a sense of, well, what's the business side of it.

[2:59] John Ort: And so I really just wanted to know what's happening in terms of the representation side of things and then also what's going on with the casting offices.

[3:11] John Ort: And my internship in casting was in an office, Johnson Lyft casting, who, you know, at the time was doing Miss Saigon and Les Miz and Cats and Phantom of the Opera, and also doing work at Second Stage.

[3:25] John Ort: And I just fell in love with casting, and they really took me under their wing and let me go and sit in on auditions that were happening, and just much more than just sort of working in the office. They really let me go and experience, you know, what was happening in the room.

[3:43] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah, to really see what it was like behind the table.

[3:45] John Ort: Absolutely. After that was over and I graduated, I continued acting, but I kind of always dabbled in it. You know, if a friend was putting up a play and I knew there was nothing in that play for me, I would immediately say, Let me cast it. So sort of just always kept doing that.

[4:04] John Ort: It was definitely something that you found an interest in and a passion for doing.

[4:08] John Ort: Absolutely. Yeah. It really became at the time, since I was still pursuing acting, it was a second love. You know, like I knew I really loved it. And as the years went on, more and more, you know, just started to feel like, you know what, that really might be more the right place for me in this business.

[4:40] Patrick Oliver Jones: Where you made that transition to casting as opposed to acting?

[4:45] John Ort: It was a lot of things, but you know, often the jobs I were booking were out of town, was doing a lot of regional theater, which happens a lot. And I at that time, you know, had started a new relationship and just kept feeling more and more the need to settle down more and want to be in New York full time.

[5:07] John Ort: I wanted more stability, which is what we all want as actors, right? And I'm a Capricorn, and it's just part of my nature, yeah. And you know, actually, I found myself not really loving the work when I was off somewhere for a few months, you know, working on a play. I wasn't really loving it.

[5:31] John Ort: And more and more found myself being pulled towards casting and just finally, yeah.

[5:38] Patrick Oliver Jones: I'm wondering through those years when you were kind of juggling both the casting and the acting. Was there anything in those times when you got to sit behind the table or cast these student films, as you said, was there anything that you learned there that you then brought over into your own acting and the way you auditioned yourself?

[5:56] John Ort: You know, at the time, I'm not sure actually that I was quite as self-aware as you know, now years of being on the casting side of things and having a lot more experience, you know, I realize all these things I wish I knew then. But yes, I see a lot now, and I think I made all those mistakes, or wasn't aware that I was entering the room thinking way too much about the casting director who's on the other side of the table, trying to impress someone, or that every audition is the thing. It's all that matters.

[6:39] John Ort: And it's for an actor that kind of thinking, I just think now on the other side of the table is like that just gets in your way.

[6:47] Patrick Oliver Jones: And as a casting director, how does that show up in the room? I'm curious how that comes across.

[6:52] John Ort: I mean, the obvious would just be nerves, you know, when you notice somebody's very nervous, and you know, I want to create an environment that's very warm and that's going to allow people to feel really comfortable and let them do their best work.

[7:08] John Ort: Right. And that's why I'm here, you know, is to hopefully be a part of that. You know, don't worry about me. You know, let's focus on the work. Let's focus on I want someone to come in having really worked on the material, you know, making strong choices and having a strong opinion about what's going on on the page.

[7:29] John Ort: And then there's confidence in that. You know, and there's confidence in that approach. And then be open to take adjustments and be able to play and then you know, have the ability to be able to then work on it with each other and play a bit.

[7:43] Patrick Oliver Jones: And as far as being in the room and being prepared and confident, as you say, is there really ever a wrong choice? Because I think that's a lot of times what us actors worry about. That if we make this bold choice, well, that's the wrong choice, and then they won't consider us. Is there really a wrong choice when it comes to preparing for a side?

[8:02] John Ort: I don't think there's a wrong choice. I think what's important is that you have a clear understanding of what are the circumstances, what's happening on the page. You know, again you have a strong opinion about that. You know what your objective is. You've really worked that material, and you're making choices and changing tactics or whatever you're doing, that's all for that objective of the scene. There's no wrong choices in that.

[8:31] John Ort: I might have some information that you didn't have, but I want to see that first strong run through. And again, it's your interpretation of it. You know, you hear, you know, you don't want it to be one note. You know, so you're looking for, you know, maybe different colors, you know, within that scene. I think it's just important to make sure that it makes sense for the scene.

[8:56] John Ort: Yeah, within the context of everything that's going, yeah, who you are, you know, on that page and the circumstances, and that everything makes sense. You're not making a choice just to throw in another color that's a good thing. It doesn't stand out. But I think that would be a rarity, you know. So that's why I say, no, I don't think there's any wrong choices if you have a strong interpretation of it.

[9:23] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah, it's in the audition process. Do you know what I mean?

[9:25] John Ort: Right. It's interesting that you bring that up because I just did an audition where it was for this father, he was, you know, this marine biologist, so he seemed like a kind of a professional, but also fatherly. So I was trying to figure that out. And so I went in with a suit, but no tie, you know, just trying to like bridge that gap between professional, personal, still casual. And then the director's in the room is like, well, I see this as more like a sweater wearing dad, you know, with slacks or jeans. So I was like, okay, so I completely got that wrong. But I still got a callback. So even though I made a choice that wasn't what the director saw, you know, I prepared the material and did it and was able to take that adjustment. And so I think that's what you're saying.

[10:04] John Ort: Absolutely. It's about being able to be malleable in the room.

[10:08] Patrick Oliver Jones: Absolutely. And that you clearly made a choice. You didn't just come in and sort of just read through what's on the page, you know.

[10:17] John Ort: Yeah. You made a clear choice, right? The director said, Oh, I see it differently, and then you were able to take that adjustment.

[10:34] Patrick Oliver Jones: What would you say is the biggest difference in the type of choices or type of action that you're looking for from stage actors as opposed to film and TV actors? What's the difference in those auditions that you're looking for?

[10:47] John Ort: You know, I think that the biggest difference is probably just a technical one. When you're on stage, you're performing for an audience, so you have to be aware a bit more. Do you need to reach a thousand people? You know, whereas on camera, you know, we often talk about the camera as a spy cam. It's almost voyeuristic, you know, that we're able to spy in on this moment in life actually happening, and so it should be that believable, that effortless, that intimate, depending on the scene.

[11:22] John Ort: You know, if you're standing right next to somebody, you know, and you're having a conversation, then there's no need to project as you would, and you know how everyone is immediately trained when they're training for theater. That's always the first thing I get whenever I go in for TV. It's like take it down.

[11:38] John Ort: Right, right. I can hear you.

[11:41] Patrick Oliver Jones: Right. It's an adjustment.

[11:43] John Ort: It is. No, but it's that technical adjustment, you know, of just understanding where you are on the page. So on camera, there's no too big, there's no too small. It's just, is it organic? Is it coming from an organic place? Is it truthful? And do I believe you?

[12:00] Patrick Oliver Jones: Yeah. I also bring that up in the sense of, you know, some people ask, well, what's my frame? Not that it's not important to know, but you know, I'll worry about that more than I need you to worry about it in the sense that I don't want you to dampen down your choices for it.

[12:15] John Ort: Right. If you need to make a gesture with your hand, then make that gesture.

[12:19] Patrick Oliver Jones: Absolutely.

[12:19] John Ort: You're just, it just needs you living. For myself, I've had sides where it was like a page, page and a half, and so you're actually having dialogue, a scene, and then I've had the ones where it's literally one line. Yeah, maybe barely a sentence.

[12:33] Patrick Oliver Jones: Uh-huh.

[12:34] John Ort: And so is there a different way that we as actors need to prepare for those?

[12:38] John Ort: I think with those, taking each one, so the half a phrase, the one word sometimes. Right. It's you know, get back to the basics in a way. What do you want? Who are you? You know, who what is the character, what do they do? You see half the time the name of the role is literally their job. Waiter. Reporter. Exactly. Whatever it is.

[13:03] John Ort: I do think you want to really just simplify it. Because at that point, those roles, you know, they're there to help authenticate the world, whatever world we're in, so that people really feel again that we're just spying on this life happening.

[13:22] John Ort: And it goes back to that. Do I believe you? It's so easy to overthink those one lines. Absolutely. It really is. I think sometimes the biggest thing, especially the one word, that's the killer. Everybody, should I improv? Should I, you know, should I add some things? No, probably not. They wrote one word; they're gonna look for someone who's going to deliver that one word, believably for the situation and the circumstances that are on the page, pretty much exactly, you know. Because you're really just there to facilitate, to give exposition, whatever it is. You're there to just kind of get to the next plot point or the next short moment, sure. Whatever it is. But so as an actor, I think just simplify it in that way.

You know, now we're talking a page and a half, but still, it's still about what are the circumstances? Why is this person there? What are you doing? What do you want? What's your function? Again, you're there to become that character to help tell the story.

[14:25] John Ort: Right. You know, as the roles get larger, when you start getting into situations where it's a recurring or maybe it's a series regular, it can then shift a little bit. Then I do think it often becomes much more about you. When it comes to those roles, it's not fully realized yet. When you're gonna be a series regular or recur, you have the first episode, but you don't know where that story is ultimately going in season three at that point when you're doing a pilot. And so in those cases, is it even more important to bring yourself, to bring those personal choices that you would imbibe that character with? I think so. I think it is important to bring yourself to it. You want to take a look at the material that's been given and try to get a sense of how much of yourself can you show?

Again, it needs to make sense. You know, the choices have to make sense for what's going on, who you are in that world, but it's not then just about, okay, just give me what's here on the page. It does become much more about, well, who are you? What choice, what, you know, show me what's not on the page. How are you gonna bring yourself to this in a way that's going to inspire someone to want to write for you?

[15:43] John Ort: It's almost, you know, just giving yourself the freedom to say, what can I show? You know, it's a drama, but is there a place to show a little bit of humor? You know, is there a place to show some vulnerability? Whatever it is that you're at least you're asking those questions as you're working on it, because you know, there is only one you. So everyone, you know, is going to have a unique take on it. There's something in just allowing yourself the freedom to know that you can bring yourself to it.

[16:21] John Ort: Yeah. To put some of your own point of view into the character. Exactly. Color it with that. Exactly. And I think that that goes for anything. And again, it goes back to, okay, but whatever choices you're making, does it make sense for this character, this world? Just making sure that doesn't end up going to a place of, okay, I see you making choices because you've been told you gotta make choices. It's a weird, the casting director never wants to see us working. I guess that's a good way to do that. Not really. Yeah, no, it should feel very effortless. We should be able to, you know, as an audience, you want to just sit back and forget about all that. We don't want to see, oh, okay, okay. I can see all the choices that you're making. It's not naturally flowing.

[17:04] John Ort: Yeah. And I think that that's so difficult because I get that sense that conversational, that that's a big buzzword when I go into auditions, you know, make it conversational, like you're talking to a friend. And I think that for whatever reason, us actors, we can kind of fight against that. We want to be funny, we want to be dramatic, we want to be vulnerable, all these things that you said, we want to show that. Yes. And instead of letting the script kind of dictate where that's gonna go, find those beats within the script rather than inserting them, I guess.

[17:39] John Ort: Yeah, is what it sounds like you're saying. It shouldn't be much, it shouldn't feel much different than you and I just chatting right now. I'm also especially sort of leaning on camera, you know, and in this conversation, if once the camera goes on, you feel your whole energy shift, you know, if when you're acting, it's a whole different energy. Yeah, to me, it might be a clue that you're probably working a little too hard. Like you get that stance where your feet are in that position, your chest kind of puffs up a little bit, you're on. Yeah, yeah. If you get that sense of, okay, now I'm on. Yeah, and that's why sometimes I, you know, look, everybody works differently. You know, I might like what someone did in a first take.

I'll often say, great rehearsal, let's do it again. Let's just do it again. Any notes? No, no notes, just I just want to give it another run because I find that, you know, of course ideally that first one that you come in with is gonna be totally relaxed and easy and whatever, but sometimes you find that, you know, that second one, it's like you got one out of your system and then calms right, you can kind of settle in just a little bit. So I like that second take. I like to allow for that. It's just, it's gonna be natural for there to be a little bit of, you know, nerves kick in and especially for something that really should just be conversational, it's gonna want to feel really effortless.

[19:05] John Ort: Yeah. Getting to the technical side of the audition, should we be memorized or unmemorized? You know, what is your, what are your thoughts on holding the sides, holding the script? I say always have those sides in your hand. We expect that. You know, ideally, yes, you've had the chance to really memorize it and really work that material and be super prepared and know exactly what you want to do. Even when that's the case, I want you to have those pages in your hand. It's there for you. So when suddenly the lights are on, the camera's rolling, and nerves do kick in, it's there for you. Ultimately, the flow and your choices are much more important than did you memorize or not memorize. The best auditioners find a way to incorporate, they've learned a way to either memorize in a way where they really know the kind of moment by moment where that falls on page one or two or three when they do suddenly realize that they've maybe lost their place or they're not exactly sure what the next line is, they just take a look and then they look back up and they're back with their partner, and you know, that there's an ease to it.

[20:26] John Ort: The flow is the most important thing. You look down a few times, ultimately nobody cares about that. Obviously, you're reading off the page, or you didn't really prepare enough, so now nerves kick in, and so you're just constantly searching for the line. You know, that doesn't work. Yeah, you know, I want those sides in your hand. The other thing that can happen is somebody really memorizes those sides. They took the time, they memorized them, they know them so well at home, they did it a hundred times, they come in, nerves kick in, and they stubbornly will not look at the page and can't get through it. Yeah, yeah. I'm not someone that wants to go back and edit a bunch of takes. I want one take.

I need you to be comfortable with those pages. I need you to, in those moments, just take a look. It's not a big deal. Kind of say to yourself, if I were being paid to come in and it's going to be the first take, someone just says, I just want to see what your first take is. Go. What would you do? And did you bring your best of that day? Yeah, because it is a day-to-day thing. You know, we have our great days and bad days. And we still have to audition, no matter which day it is.

[21:43] John Ort: Yeah, exactly. But you know, that you're able to, you know, at least feel like I did the work and I'm gonna show them what I would do. When I'm having auditions, I'm often the reader. I like that. It's also part of what I like to do is actually really be in the scene with that person, you know, because I get a good feel for it by doing it that way, and then I'm gonna watch back and see what it looked like on screen. Yeah, exactly. But you know, in the room. So that's more my style, but I also, you know, yeah, you never know who you're gonna get. You know, someone's reading that day and it's a comedy and their timing is terrible. It happens, right? And you do have to just do your best and go with it. But again, all those things are only going to be more difficult if you haven't really prepared.

[22:39] John Ort: Yeah, if you don't know it. And that, you know, that's the biggest thing that I think in auditioning in terms of, you know, pet peeves or whatever, is someone really not being prepared. They kind of thought they were just gonna wing it. And when all those things are happening, it's too much. You can't, it's not gonna work. What are your favorite types of work that you do? Whether it's a particular show or just a type of medium that you enjoy most?

[23:09] John Ort: Oh, as you said, I sort of dabble in all of it. Right. Because I love all of it. That said, I, you know, in a way sort of fell into television a decade ago. And I don't know if it's just because I know it the best, but you know, I feel very comfortable in that medium. You know, I think every show can be very different, and it's exciting to work on a lot of different kinds of things. They're all your children and you love them the same.

[23:57] John Ort: Now, when it comes to auditions, what is one thing that each of us need? A rehearsal space. Well, did you know that June is New York music month? And during that month, Spaceworks is offering free rehearsal space. That's right. Free rehearsal space. All brought to you by the mayor's office of media and entertainment. Now, Spaceworks builds and operates creative workspaces both in Brooklyn and Queens. So starting May 1st, if you're a singer or musician, you can book free space in June at Spaceworks 20 studios in Park Slope, Williamsburg, and Long Island City. Now, to book space, you'll need to request a free Spaceworks card, which is a simple application process. And again, it's free. I did it myself online, and I got my Spaceworks card, so now I can go into their facilities and book spaces.

It took just a couple of weeks to receive mine by mail. So sign up today at Spaceworksnyc.org to get your free Spaceworks card and join their community of workspaces. Look in the show notes for that link so you can go to it directly. Now, a big thank you to Spaceworks for this amazing offer of their rehearsal spaces for the listeners of Why I'll Never Make It and Artist’s Around the City.

[25:25] John Ort: So I have a question for one of our listeners. This is from Megan, and she said, what well-intentioned things do actors tend to do that ends up shooting them in the foot instead of moving their career forward, i.e., going out for projects they aren't actually available for, you know, just to be seen, or maybe sending, you know, too much to an office, communicating, contacting them too much. Well, I think the first one that Megan brings up is a good one. You know, I think you should avoid going in for something that you have no intention of actually accepting. You know, I think, you know, from our perspective, if someone is auditioning for a role, you're putting us in a position where if you come in, you do a great job. We're sending you to producers. We'd and the director, and we don't want them to get excited about somebody who would then pass.

[26:24] John Ort: Yeah, you know, so I don't think it's a smart approach just because you're saying, well, I don't know that casting director. I want them to see me. If for whatever reason you wouldn't want to actually accept the role you're auditioning for, I would turn down the audition for whatever reason rather than go in and then later not want to do that.

[26:46] John Ort: On a smaller scale, I don't think that this is the end of the world in any way or not going to advance somebody. But I think don't walk into an audition apologizing. You know, don't walk in apologizing that you just got sent the material or you didn't, you know, you didn't have time to prepare and it's not gonna come in with the excuses. I think you're undercutting yourself and you're basically saying, "This is gonna be bad. And I'm real sorry about that." And as a casting, you're like, "Well, I'm so glad you're here then." It just doesn't, you know, it's not really helpful to anybody. Uh at the end of the day, we need to see again uh what are you gonna do? Yeah, with this material, it doesn't really help to say, "Well, they just got the material, they really would have been, you know, much better."

We know. Or maybe we don't know, but find us before you're entering that room. So don't don't run in apologizing. Yeah, especially if the director, producer or whatever is in the room. Exactly. And when I was an assistant or even an associate and somebody runs in apologizing, they just got the material, even if the casting director knows the situation, you feel sort of put on the spot. Well, who sent that material? I did. You know, it's a weird, it's just, yeah. I would just avoid that. Yeah, no unintentional throwing someone under the bus. Exactly. Exactly. And maybe, you know, yeah, it's just uh it's just something that yeah, I think it doesn't help anyone.

[28:19] John Ort: The next question I have is from Ian, and he is wondering what is the best way to contact uh a casting director. Is it through email? Is it just actors access, physical mail? Yeah, I I think it I honestly I think it's very um it it's it's really a personal question to to each casting office. Um definitely everyone should have their actors access account. You know, that's a that's a great way. Um, you know, and then when you have met someone, I think then it then you you want to ask that casting director, you know, how how what's the best way to keep in touch? Yeah, because I know for myself, I I used to do the postcard route and I and I just found for myself no benefit from it. And I even uh would would talk to a couple of casting directors uh a while later and and mention something that I told them in the postcard that they never they're like, "Oh, I didn't know that."

So obviously they didn't see that postcard because it gets lost in their other mail or so. I mean, for me, I didn't find any personal benefit from that. But but yeah, but maybe there are those who go through every postcard, love that and they love the physical. Yeah, I think so too. Uh you know, so it just yeah, it's it just uh it depends. But you know, again in the digital age, things are changing and most things are being received online. You're not really going through, you know, mailed pictures as much.

[29:47] John Ort: Right, exactly. Which actually brings me to uh to my last question about um about self-tapes. Yeah, because uh especially on actors access, there's a lot of eco-casts as they're called. So with these self-tapes, are you looking for something different or a better way to prepare than you would were we actually in the room for you? Like what what is the best way an actor can prepare for one or the other? I think the the important thing about a self-tape, you want to do all the same work that you would do if you were coming in the room. For me, it just it's just sort of a technical thing and in terms of making sure that you have good lighting. You know, make sure both both sides of your face are are lit.

Uh make sure that you're close enough in your framing that we can really see what you're doing. You know, if it's if it's a full body shot self-tape, you know, if you're thinking it, we're seeing it. So we want to be close enough that we can see what's you know, your face. Um make sure we can hear you. Make sure you've watched it once, or have somebody watch it. Um, you know, the amount of times where a tape is unusable uh simply for a technical reason. You know, one time I received a self-tape, it was a one it was a one-line, and the person was completely fuzzy for for the whole line. Yeah, and then at the very very end, it the image became clear just before the tape went off. I can't send that to the creative team.

It does make you wonder, it's like, how did you send this and think that this was gonna work? And maybe someone doesn't like to see themselves. I don't know. They just did it, sent it without the send it, somebody didn't watch. I have to assume. But you know, I can't we can't use that.

[31:27] John Ort: Right. And we often don't have time to ask again. For us, you know, I I like to utilize the self-taping. The intention was to have them in, but they're out of town, or they just are on a different coast, and we're casting out of New York, but we're seeing all over the country or elsewhere. And again, because of the digital age, self-taping is a big thing. Some offices, I think, at times maybe use it to they can be able to see more people and pre-screen more people that way. You know, whatever it is, I don't think that there's a difference in the way that you want to prepare. It's more just those technical things. It doesn't need to be a blue wall, you know. You know, it just but you know, maybe don't do it in front of your bookcase.

Yeah, try to stay away from anything that's too distracting. You know, ultimately we want to see your acting and your choices for that scene. And again, what would you do? And and with that self-tape, should we do it twice? Uh you know, okay, try it this way. Should we give two takes or what's what are your thoughts? I don't think it's it's necessary to do that always. But if for some reason you feel strongly and say there's two different ways that this can go, there's two different ways to interpret this. I think both of those are possibilities. You know, I want to show both. And it's it's clear that it's really it's really different. You know, I I don't think we don't need two takes just for the sake of two takes.

[33:02] John Ort: Okay. But am I open to oh, there's there's two takes here? If again it's it's two really different ways to go. Yeah, uh, you know, I I personally would be would be open to that. I'd prefer they be two separate links so that I can choose one. Right, so instead of the same tank right, instead of the same uh same scene, yeah, same role. Yeah. And so would you say that that's the same four scenes, like like say you're given three sides, then it needs to be three separate links, three separate takes, or put them all into one video. That can be one video. If you're if you're it's one role right and it's three different scenes, yeah, you don't have to separate that. And then again, I think if you're going to if you're going to have for scene two, here's an alternate scene two, you know, I might separate that out.

[33:54] John Ort: Yeah, yeah. So in and wrapping up, there's an organization that you had mentioned that you are a part of. Yes. Yeah, it's called uh the Artist’s Patron Fund. It's a a charity that provides fiscal sponsorship to mid-career artists. Oh specifically project specific grants. Yeah all funds go to the artists and their projects but not just performing arts also visual arts. You know this was founded in 2016. Elizabeth Huber, who is a very close friend going all the way back to to Fordham it was her idea. Always had a love for the arts and having been in the city now for so long you know we know so many artists who all this time later are still working at it still putting up art and in New York and everywhere though.

It's so expensive. You know it's so expensive to to do this. To live in the city, and then to also have the art on the side. And just putting up the arts in ja you know in general, you know, uh, because you don't it doesn't have to be New York City specific, but I uh you know, but I think seeing how incredibly expensive it is to um allow people to make to make art and and do what they love doing. So she had this idea to try to help uh raise raise this you know fund so that every year people can apply, depending on what projects they have, and um can apply for for different grants. Uh the application period is actually open as we as we speak. Um, you know, it it's been di different things. Um in our initial year, Tony Gregory is a photographer and needed uh a grant to help fund a project.

He was going to Oregon to um film the uh solar eclipse. Oh wow. Um needed uh funding to help help that project along. We've given grants for stage productions, uh to playwrights uh to a reading, to an actress who was uh developing her own site-specific work, uh a developmental grant. So it just all you know, um is it most different works that are promoted through this fund? Uh yeah. I um I don't think that if if somebody was putting up a classic um or something, I don't think that that would be excluded. It would it would depend on what the grant was was for specifically and um and how that that worked in to you know who we were able to help that year.

[36:37] John Ort: And so you said that there's an application process. What is that application process like? Uh well, um there's a website which is artistspatronfund.org. Um, and you'll learn all about us, all about the application process. Uh we also have a fundraiser, April 29th. So tonight, come on down to Elmo. Uh, we're gonna have a fundraiser for the artist patron fund. And yeah, I mean, uh the application process, we're we're looking for you to tell us what you're working on, how much you ideally would like um to help fund the project, and and for what specifically? Maybe you're a visual artist and you are working on a piece that's gonna be part of a larger, you know, maybe you're hoping to show at a gallery or something, and you just need some uh grant money for supplies.

For material, yeah exactly. It can be that, it can really it can be that simple. Um, all the way to, you know, you're putting up a full production and and so these are the production costs. Right, these are the production costs, and uh every year you know doing what we can to raise as much as we can. Yeah, uh, and then based on what we have, uh how many applications we've received and and what those are for, trying to figure out where where the need is, and then giving as much as we can, and and hoping that even if it's a a small grant, sometimes that's just enough to really help someone get that project started or completed or whatever it may be. Yeah, or yeah, wherever they are in the process. Exactly.

[38:13] John Ort: What is the uh the deadline for this application? Uh the application period right now, it's open till July 1st. Okay. We usually then uh announce grants sometime in the fall. Yeah. It sounds like it's a it's it's a great way then and a great organization that you're a part of to really give back and foster those that are just trying to make it in this in this in this business. Because you've been with it from the beginning since 2016. Yeah, so this is just our our third annual fundraiser. In that sense, we're still we're still very new. Yeah. Again, artistpatronfund.org. You'll learn about the different artists. I think they're all you know pretty exciting. Uh, and so it's been a really fun, worthwhile organization to be a part of.

[38:58] Patrick Oliver Jones: Well, thank you, John. Thank you for giving insights into the sometime crazy business of auditioning. Absolutely, absolutely. To learn more about John Ort, go to the website winmepodcast.com. There you'll see all the links and details about what we talked about today, as well as the artist patron fund. Also on the website, you will find a link to help support this podcast in producing these weekly episodes through your generous donations. More importantly, if you enjoy listening to these stories and interviews as much as I love being a part of them, then please share this podcast with those who you think would enjoy and benefit from these conversations. As always, thank you for joining me and John today. Don't miss a single episode by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. I'm Patrick Oliver Jones, and I'll see you next time on Why I'll Never Make It.