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[0:01] Robert W. Schneider: Hey friends, we have some exciting news here at BEHIND THE CURTAIN. Remember Shetler Studios, where we recorded many of our past interviews? Well, they are now back in business and are called AMDA Studio Rentals. Same great location, but with incredibly beautiful new renovations. AMDA Studio Rentals is now the new go-to rehearsal and audition facility in the heart of New York's Theatre District. AMDA Studio Rentals offers studio space for acting, music, and dance at unbeatable prices, including 40% off same-day rentals. For more information, visit www.amdastudiorentals.com or call 917-522-9753.

[0:41] Robert W. Schneider: Hi, I'm Rob Schneider.

[0:45] Kevin David Thomas: And I'm Kevin David Thomas.

[0:47] Robert W. Schneider: And this is BEHIND THE CURTAIN, Broadway's Living Legends. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at BroadwayCurtainPodcast. Plus, you can always listen to all of our episodes, old and new, on the Broadway Podcast Network, iTunes, and Spotify. Well friends, last night I got to see a masterclass in musical theatre performance. If you are in the New York area anytime soon, please head over to the Ambassador Theatre and see today's guest, who is, hands down, the best Roxy Hart I have ever seen. But of course, Chicago is not her only credit. Not by a long shot, because today's guest has appeared on Broadway hits such as Cats, Jerome Robbins Broadway, and some lesser-known hits that we all love, like Carrie the Musical, to say nothing of one of my personal favorites, Song and Dance, The Revivals of Company, Sweet Charity, Damn Yankees, Pippin, and of course, A Chorus Line.

In fact, her trajectory into that last show is immortalized in the brilliant documentary, Every Little Step. To tell us what it was like to work with such legends as Bernadette Peters, Jerome Robbins, Jack O'Brien, Stephen Sondheim, Susan Stroman, Anne Reinking, and her entire family. Seriously, this family has like a monopoly on talent. It's too much. Please share. Here is the Roxy, currently rocking Chicago, Tony nominee, Charlotte D'Amboise. Charlotte, how are you this morning?

[2:04] Charlotte D'Amboise: I'm quite good. My voice might be a couple, I don't know, a little lower. Not quite waking up yet. I'm good. I'm good. I'm just waking up. I'm a little just waking myself up with my cup of coffee and I've got my dogs here. Like all over me. Not anywhere in the house, but on top of me.

[2:27] Robert W. Schneider: We love it.

[2:28] Charlotte D'Amboise: That's about all I got for you. I'm good. I'm good.

[2:32] Kevin David Thomas: They want to absorb your talent. Everyone in this house. I imagine like the dogs also can like do fouettés and stuff like that. I just imagine this entire house, just everyone dancing, but maybe I'm wrong. Charlotte, when did you first encounter Roxy Hart? When did you first get to play this immortal character?

[2:49] Charlotte D'Amboise: This part I've been playing since I did the first National Company pit. So that, I'm not sure what year that is, but I think the show's been running for 26 years. And I think that show, the National Company, went out like 25 years ago. So I literally started that show with Jasmine Guy. We went to Washington, D.C. and did the first National of it for about, I guess, nine months or something like that. And then I moved to Broadway, doing it on Broadway for a while. And then that was it. It's been in my life for 25 years. It's been insane.

[3:24] Kevin David Thomas: I remember seeing you do it in Los Angeles at the Shubert.

[3:27] Charlotte D'Amboise: Oh, yeah. In L.A., yeah.

[3:29] Kevin David Thomas: It was fabulous. You were fabulous then. How do you think your interpretation of her has changed over time? What makes your Roxy different now in 2023 than, let's say, '97, '98?

[3:41] Charlotte D'Amboise: Well, I think it's better, honestly. And I hate to say that, but only because I've gotten the luxury of being able to go away from a role and then keep coming back at it. And not for long periods of time, you know what I mean? So you get into really bad habits. When you've been doing it for a year or two, it's hard. It's hard to keep it straight and not get goofy and whatever, you know? So I think this show's allowed me to do that because over the years I come back for six weeks. That's it. Or I come back for two months in the year and I'm doing other stuff. So every time I go in, I'm coming in with a fresh eye and also a different age. And this is one of the few roles that you can age into.

And getting older, it gets richer. I mean, my opinion, and I remember when I did it when I was younger, I was the youngest Roxy they ever had. And they were all worried about it working. And it worked. I mean, it works with young people, too. I just never felt it worked as well. I feel better older and more mature and looking at it as a deeper woman, you know what I mean? So I just feel like I've gotten better.

[5:05] Charlotte D'Amboise: It's funny because when we were talking about L.A., seeing it in Los Angeles, I had so much physical stuff I did. I mean, I was doing pratfalls and doing, I don't know, I was just doing so much physical stuff. Now that's come back a lot. Less, less, less. But in some ways, you filled it with something else that's better and it doesn't need to be. I don't know. I've done that show without a voice. I've done it without being able to dance it. So you sort of have to figure out, like, actually, let's just make this an acting role and finding it. And when you get that kind of strength with that role, you can kind of do anything. It's like I can do it, you know, with a crutch, you know, and make it. You know what I mean? You've learned how to do that because you've had to. I've done it, you know.

[5:57] Kevin David Thomas: What do you love about her? What makes you keep wanting to come back to her?

[6:01] Charlotte D'Amboise: Everything. It's the best role ever. I mean, I've done a lot of great roles. And one of them would be, I mean, people always ask me, what's your favorite role? And they all are, most of them I love because the whole experience and the roles have been great. I mean, I've done great roles. Sweet Charity is the one I would say compared to that. But in the long run, I would probably still say this one in the longevity of doing it. Even though Sweet Charity could be older also. Yeah. I would say this role because you don't have to do it the same every night. Like A Chorus Line, I felt stuck. I felt like I had to be the ingenue. I had to be straight. Like that role, Cassie, you don't get the laughs.

You don't get to, you know, and laughs are fun to do because you have to keep playing it. You lose the laugh. And you're like, why did I lose the laugh? You have to experiment. You're constantly finding things. When you're the straight person, it's less so. You're really playing the straight person. So I found with A Chorus Line, it was difficult because I would keep kind of trying to be kooky and find more. And truthfully, I was better when I first did it, you know? I was better. This show, yeah, she's got so many colors. The role is you can play it so many different ways. And you have so many different emotions. I mean, you see everything that a woman can do with her power. She does this role.

Uses every part of her. And you see somebody vulnerable. You see somebody wicked. You see somebody that's just clueless. You see somebody that's smart. You see somebody that's manipulative. You see, you know, and she sings and she dances and she's funny. I mean, there's just not a role better. And, you know, that just really isn't. And sometimes I pinch myself every night going, you know, God, I've been doing this for so long, it's sort of pathetic. And then there's a part of me that goes, yeah, but what else are you going to do? I mean, I've done other roles. It just doesn't compare. It's like the best fucking thing ever. You know? Oh, it's brilliant. It's a brilliant role. And a show that everybody wants to see, too. I mean, that helps. That's nice.

[8:22] Kevin David Thomas: Absolutely.

[8:23] Charlotte D'Amboise: Yeah. It's being in a great show and a great part.

[8:28] Robert W. Schneider: Exactly. That's a huge, huge difference.

[8:31] Charlotte D'Amboise: The show is perfect. It's perfect, I have to say. There's nothing that's not perfect about it. It's streamlined. You know?

[8:40] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to say, I agree with you.

[8:44] Charlotte D'Amboise: There's no fat on it. There's no excess to any of this.

[8:47] Kevin David Thomas: No fat.

[8:48] Charlotte D'Amboise: It's nothing. And yet you care about every character, who's just horrible. You know? I mean, it's one of them. And yet you walk out of the theater and you like every one of them. That's the magic. You see the desperateness of it. That's the magic. You see the desperateness of each of them. You see the passion. And it's told in such fun and such wit and so well orchestrated.

[9:14] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[9:15] Charlotte D'Amboise: The music. Oh, my God. The music and the lyrics. I really can't say enough about that. And that's the realization, you know, coming after COVID. Right. Doing the show actually before COVID and then coming out afterwards and just going, God damn, I'm so lucky. Jesus Christ. To be doing this show. And, you know, it only gets richer, I think. I think it gets richer as you get older. I really do. I think everybody gets rich.

[9:45] Kevin David Thomas: I was going to say, and prior to seeing, I'm sorry, prior to being in it, had you seen any other production of it? Did you see Gwen Verdon do it originally or?

[9:54] Charlotte D'Amboise: I didn't. I think I saw, it was the year A Chorus Line came out, right? A Chorus Line came out that year. And I think I saw A Chorus Line. My parents were like, oh, let's go see Chicago. I mean, I didn't see that many Broadway shows. And I just remember getting that A Chorus Line album. I mean, I was like a kid, you know? You know, a little kid. But I remember like playing that A Chorus Line album.

[10:17] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[10:18] Charlotte D'Amboise: It wasn't the hit that it was, you know, now. And it was dark. Dark. And people weren't ready for, I think America wasn't ready for the cynicism that it says, you know? People didn't want to see that, you know? The world was blinded, you know, by, I think. And Fosse certainly saw it. And he hit you over the head with it. Right. But I, so I did not. And I, you know, God, one of the things I'm sad. I mean, I see as many clips as I can, but.

[10:48] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[10:49] Charlotte D'Amboise: But I do know when I originally was supposed to audition for it, for the Encores! I ended up not going in. They called me to go in for Roxy at one point. And then they ended up hiring and then Reinking ended up doing it. So I never ever went in, but I remember looking at the book, you know, and reading it and going, oh, there's a lot. I mean, they took out a third of that book. A third. Walter Bobby, you know. Yeah. They cut a third of that book. So, you know, there was a lot more stuff in it, you know, that may obviously didn't really need to be there, I don't think. But I do wish, you know, sometimes I'm singing nowadays, you know, and I'm thinking about Bob Fosse up there, up in heaven. And I think, God, he would have been so happy.

Yeah. Because he never felt it was a success. He never felt it was a success. And to know that this show, it just never stops. Still going. And now it's packed every night. Packed every night. Standing room. It's like, what, what's happening? Am I in the Twilight Zone?

[12:05] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[12:06] Charlotte D'Amboise: And I've opened and closed, I don't know how many shows since that show. Even A Chorus Line, I remember being in it and going, oh, my God, we're not getting good audiences. But Chicago, you know, still going. Like, so funny. Actually, let me ask you about A Chorus Line, because you said you had bought the album. Was that your gateway into musical theater, or had you been a fan of it prior to A Chorus Line?

[12:16] Charlotte D'Amboise: I'm trying to think. You know, I got exposed. I was in the ballet world, because my father was a ballet dancer and my mother lived right near Lincoln Center, and I was doing all the ballets. I was a little kid doing Nutcracker Suites and all the stuff at Lincoln Center. So I'm taking ballet every day, because we got three classes and my parents had no money, so they just threw us all in ballet. But I think I first got exposed. My parents, we'd always see old movies. And I fell in love with Judy Garland, and then I remember seeing the movie Hello, Dolly. I think it was like in 1970-something, the movie. And I remember Barbara Streisand on the screen, and I remember looking at my mom going, is she dead?

Because all of the old movie stars were all like, it's old, the old movie. They were in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. And so Hello, Dolly was like an old movie. And I was like, oh, is she dead? And my mom was like, no. And I said, is she old? And she was like, no, she's her age now. And I was like, oh my God, I couldn't believe it. So I started to listen to Funny Girl and listen to music and wanting to sing.

[15:35] Charlotte d'Amboise: About right Disney we're like, oh my god and I kept thinking this Kevin. Remember knock on his door at his dressing room. We're so good. I don't even know how they helped you did all that. Even second acting it, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah going in the second. So, you know, 'cause we had no money and we were just high school kids. He just loved it. So that was it and I had decided probably around 14 or you know, I wanted to be on Broadway that was it. I wanted to be on Broadway. I was like, uh. And I started I went to professional children's school. I said to my mom I was really motivated. I just said I wanted so I just I picked up backstage and I just auditioned for every Broadway show.

Anything, anything, any of the show, you know, and I would you know, never got anything for like three years, you know and then finally and like eight. How did you know what to do? I mean because now people go to college for four years. They get some training, you know, of course you came from, you know, if your family was in the business, I'll be at the ballet side of things. How did you know what to do Charlotte? How are you 18 or 17 and just pick it up backstage and you know going and you know what? I think I it was just that was the only way. That was the only way, you know, you're here I maybe met somebody. I don't even know how to us and they said go get backstage magazine. Maybe my mother told me or figure it out.

I don't even remember but that was the only way you did it you would that was it. That was the only way you found out you got bought backstage and then have a list of auditions or whatever. So what happened? So that's how I found out like and it was sort of it seems so simple. It seems simpler now in a way. It was just very simple. You just got backstage to me and it would have like dancers who sing or singers who dance and you'd go to the whatever you wish or for you know what you did best. I was always going to the dancers who sing well and you know, you'd wait on line outside, you know, and you audition in the theaters and you would wait for hours and they would bring in group at a time group at a time and then you would go in you would learn the dance combination it cut cut cut then the people they kept you sat on the stage and they would pick you one at a time and you would sing eight bars and we'd all watch each other sing and that's how you did auditions.

I remember seeing baby when you were singing it. I went to my one and only and I remember she walked in and it was like, oh, who's she? Geez? She was so put together. I was so not and she was so put together. I just remember like my I was like gosh, she's so beautiful and she was and then she sang I love a piano and then I remember she got the job. I did not and then I stole that audition song. But it was that you know, that's how it worked in those days, you know, yeah, and I got knocked down knocked. I mean get anything. I went audition for literally three years never got anything but I what I just as I got older I got close to things and I got to got to know I remember auditioning for a chorus line very early.

I was like a 14 15. I got all over the end and Tom Reed who you know, he was he was like Michael Bennett's guy. He remembered me, you know, he remembered me. I was this little ballerina that danced my ass off with braces, you know, I mean and remembered me and then when cats came along, you know, I I got all the way to the end and I didn't get it, but when they did the the national tour I am he was he had taken over he was there and you know, he remembered me it is that's how it works, you know, and he was like, you know, he he'll you know, that's so it's just sort of it just was years. Listen when you audition for three years. He starts to make connections. Yeah, you know they know you and they want to hire you they want to the next project that comes that's right, you know because they see that whatever they see the talent or they see that so whatever there's that's there, you know, and we're taking acting classes and stuff at this time or singing classes?

[20:04] Charlotte d'Amboise: Yes, so I did I you know, I scraped together money and I worked at the athletes foot, you know, I said to my parents be a year. This is after high school. So during high school, I went to professional school and would go to auditions. So for the last 14 15 6 15 16 17, I went to auditions 18 I've graduated high school. I said to my mom. Oh, I'm getting there close. I'm getting there close. Give me a year. Give me a year and if I don't get a Broadway show, you know, I'll go to college and she said, okay great. All right, so I stayed at home that year my sister. I have a twin sister. She went to college and I just hunkered down and auditioned for whatever I could and went to act now I'm trying to I went to acting but yeah, I went when I was younger I went to I went to America to Playhouse whatever that was when I was younger and then when I got older I went to acting classes everywhere.

I was down the East Village and even when I got into Broadway shows, we would go after Broadway shows I would go I I look at kids these days and I think oh my god, how crazy I mean, I was so in it when I was doing cats on tour. I went to arena stage. I auditioned for I was doing cats. I knew I was gonna be there for six months doing cats, you know at the National Theater I went and auditioned. How did you two monologues or they had a summer program at arena stage? And I I got in and I did from 10 to 5 at arena stage. I had to take a train that was a half an hour to get out there and then get to the theater do the show and I did this every day and then I'd have five show weekends and from Monday to Friday was acting class from 10 to 5 go to the show five show weekend and then I'd go to act and that's what I did.

I mean like I was like crazy. I love I love that old person. I'm like, oh man, she was I was so ambitious, you know. Yeah, well because I knew I needed it. I knew that I wanted to get anywhere. I had I had to be able to walk into an audition and feel comfortable reading or doing some acting I never did before now, right, right, right.

[22:04] Charlotte d'Amboise: So anyway, I said when Hanman I studied with for a long time. Oh, wow. Howard Guskin, I don't know if you know him, but he was like the guru to the all the big stars, you know, I did Shakespeare classes I did. I mean, I I really when I wasn't working I'd be full-on so I I did it all you were hungry you were hungry for this knowledge. I was I was hungry. I was hungry. Yeah, I was really really really hungry. I could use a little bit of that hunger now. Now I'm like.

[22:44] Kevin David Thomas: No.

[22:45] Charlotte d'Amboise: So, okay. So wait, let me ask you a question when Hanman. What is something that you learned either from him or some of your other acting teachers that you either still take with you to this day, or you impart on future generations because we also know you teach as well. I remember several things. Well when hand me the handman taught me I'm just trying to think I mean they all taught me that you to be yourself and to trust yourself and to and to trust the scripts and so bring yourself to the script, but read the script. Don't go off the script. You're telling the story, you know they all taught me that and how would Guskin really taught me how to? Make everything personal like every line you say, you know, it doesn't have to come, you know, you can take it somewhere else but it's as long as it makes the line richer and this that each individual line you really taught me that and then I remember Kevin Kline got a few only knew honey.

You know, it's so funny if you ever knew I remember I got my first job as a 12 shows 12 weeks. It's sir flights. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think summer stock. Yeah first job. I was 18 years old. I didn't even go to my high school you know, it was a summer we did we didn't have a day off. No, we didn't have a night off. We never day off. We had a night off three months and we learned 12 shows in 12 weeks. This literally was the best thing ever. I learned so much right? We made $30 a week.

[24:28] Charlotte d'Amboise: $30 a week. I remember before I went Kevin Kline and I was the chorus girl. So I was gonna be just in all the dance numbers, right? I was supposed to be that um. But we got to do a lot more because there was always a little roles you know what I mean in all these musicals who play so and I remember Kevin Kline saying to me before I left because he knew my dad was doing whatever and he said, you know what? Don't be safe. Don't ever be safe. He says if you walk in and there's a chair on the stage use it if there's a bit or that he also told me that about auditions. He said don't make go in and use everything you can use. Use everything you can use and and don't ever be safe. Follow your instincts always and even if it's the wrong instinct go for it, you know, don't stifle it use it in in what you're telling but don't stifle your instincts ever and so it allowed me a lot of freedom and big choices and to and I think that really made a difference in my life that little thing that I was willing to hear and somehow and and so I went in sir flight with that in mind and I'll tell you a quick quick quick quick story about sir flight because it's a good one.

I love it. I was doing that they were casting company and that was one of the shows who were doing it and I was like, I want to play Kathy. I want to play Kathy, right? You know, I can really do that role for doing. Yeah. Yeah. So I got that role and the musical director there at sir flight was David loud. Oh, he was the musical director and I remember I was really he always laughs about me because I remember I was not happy with the choreography and I remember grabbing him one night like late say Dave. Out of bed and like we choreographed everything and I was like, what do you think? What do you think? Can I I'm gonna do this? I don't care about the what the choreographer I want to do and and he was like he laughs about that moment to this day and I did back to everything and did it anyway years later walking in Scott Ellis is directing it at the roundabout I walk in for the audition for Kathy and there is David loud sitting at the piano. That's crazy, love it. And we did it all business. You did it you booked it. We booked it. He was the musical director and I played Kathy.

[27:01] Charlotte d'Amboise: I know. Good one. It's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. Can you tell us a little bit about song and dance which is a family affair?

[27:08] Charlotte d'Amboise: Oh, my God, Song and Dance was like a dream come true. So I had just done Cats. That was my first Broadway show. And they were auditioning for Song and Dance, I remember. And Chris was already cast, my brother, because he had worked with ballet and knew Peter Martins. And Peter Martins was a choreographer and also Richard Mulby was a director. And we kind of were, you know, both my brother and I were so obsessed with Ain't Misbehavin'. Right. Which he directed. So, you know, I mean, we charmed him to death. We're just like, oh, my God, we thought he misbehaved. Tell me about Ain't Misbehavin'. Sure, he hated that. Love does. And I think he probably loved it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. As kids like, I mean, what?

Oh, my God. Of course. Ain't Misbehavin'. So Chris got cast because Peter Martins wanted Chris because he was with the principal of New York City Ballet at the time. So he got cast as a lead and then they had auditions for all of us. And Peter Martins really wanted ballet trained dancers. So I went in and auditioned, I got it. And then the best part of it is my dearest friend, Denise Faye, was at ballet with me at the New York City Ballet. We did Nutcracker together. We were best friends since 11 years old. She was a ballet dancer and he wanted ballet dancers. So he also cast her, too. So I ended up with my brother and my dearest friend in that very small company. It was only ten people. Yeah.

In that show. So it was and it was so. I mean, it was that was an incredible learning experience because to watch Bernadette Peters every day, you know, we would watch her and because and it was so special to watch her work and how she maneuvered people and things was so great. It was always gracious. And I and also taking chances, they would give her something and she would fall on her face and then it didn't matter. She get it. I just learned a lot from Bernadette and also just the way she ran the company. And it was it was a small, wonderful, happy, happy company. Incredible experience from beginning to end. And plus, we all were happy, you know, was a small group of dancers that all got to shine.

Everybody got to shine. We didn't have to come into the second act. You know, we just did our thing. And it was just one of those highlights. You know, I just my God, I've made it, you know, like and then dancing with my brother, even though it was now my daughters are like whenever they see any footage of song and dance, they're like me. What are you doing? And I was like, I know people would come to the show, say, are they married? You know, Christopher and Charlotte d'Amboise, because we had best to his dance. I mean, it was like a real potter. I don't love potter because he was in love with all these girls. And I was one of the girls. And nowadays that would never happen. No, but I'm and it was accepted then.

And I really love dancing with him. You know, we dance to the music. I love dancing with him. You know, we we dance to this day. You know, it's always it really is a special thing for us to dance together.

[30:40] Kevin David Thomas: How did your parents feel when they saw the both of you on stage together?

[30:42] Charlotte d'Amboise: You know what? I don't know. I think they were thrilled. It's funny. I don't know how much my dad was around during that time. Believe it or not, I think he was at that time really winding down with his dance career. It was really ending. And then he was really starting up National Dance Institute. So he found that much, really. And I think they were trying to. Yeah, that's what I think. And I think so he was going through what he was going through. So I don't really remember my dad that much. I remember my mom. I mean, they were thrilled. They were thrilled. You know, they were lovely and. Yeah, it was a great, great time. And Chris, my brother was doing both. He would still somehow do New York City ballet at times. I don't know how he managed that. I'm not sure what that was about. But there were times he was running over to do some ballets over there. And it's crazy. It's crazy. Oh, the things we do when we're younger.

[31:41] Kevin David Thomas: I know. Right.

[31:43] Charlotte d'Amboise: All right. We Cameron.

[31:45] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Oh, no, no. Go ahead, please. Please, please.

[31:48] Charlotte d'Amboise: Mm hmm. Nothing. That's all I got. That was just a great, great, great, great, great experience for all of us.

[31:54] Kevin David Thomas: I love that. I was going to. All right. Shall we ask Kevin about Carrie?

[31:58] Charlotte d'Amboise: Yes. Shall we?

[32:00] Kevin David Thomas: Yes. Charlotte, tell us about this experience. What a what a so many pieces of history you're involved in. Let's talk about this one a little bit. How did you get into Carrie? And then what was this process like?

[32:11] Charlotte d'Amboise: I auditioned for it. I really, really wanted it. I remember that. And I auditioned. And it was, you know, right after song and dance. And Mary Ellen Stewart, who I don't know if he's on her, but she was one of the girls in in one of us, four girls in. Whatever song and dance. So it's all blonde, very talented. And Terry Hands, who was the director of Carrie. I guess all song and dance and fell in. You know, he was like, she is my Chris. She was the tall blonde, just like gorgeous. And she's perfectly right for it. So he was like, I want her for Chris here at it in his mind. That was that. Right. Yeah. So we had all these auditions. I remember going in and singing a couple of times. And then I remember we had a big audition with Debbie Allen on stage.

I don't know if I went in twice, but I just remember like nailing the dancing and nailing, you know, just I just wanted that part so bad. And then I remember the final was between me and Mary Ellen Stewart. And we had to go. I remember I literally remember the elevator ride opening up. Mary Ellen Stewart leaving while I'm going in. Hi, Mary Ellen. You know, and then me going in and also knowing in my heart, I'm not going to get this, but I want her. Oh, bad. Right. So I auditioned, whatever. And she got the part. Right. And then I remember, oh, God, you know, sad, but, you know, moving on, used to it. And then I remember getting a call. And I don't know if it was from Mary Ellen Stewart or if it was from the director or producer saying Mary Ellen has turned it down.

She was a born again Christian. And she didn't want to say fuck because I had to say fuck a couple of times. I just say a couple of curse words. And then I guess that whole opening with the whole period stuff. Yeah. It was like, I can't say that stuff. I can't do it. So she burned it down.

[34:31] Charlotte d'Amboise: Wow. Thank you, God. I have no problems.

[34:33] Kevin David Thomas: Got your part.

[34:36] Charlotte d'Amboise: It's my part. Yeah. So they get a I was the second choice. And and that was it, we went to London. I also had a lot of good friends that did that. And we were in London. It was a half English cast, half American cast. So we we all went to London. We all rehearsed in London for four weeks, five weeks. And then we all went to Stratford. In London, in Stratford, in England, and we all rehearsed, you know, teched it and then performed it there at the Stratford stages, which is great because I knew a lot of those English actors because I dated one of the boys from Much Ado About Nothing or that when Terry Hans is Much Ado About Nothing. And Cyrano that was here. You guys are all too too young for that time.

And when I went to Stratford, there were all these English actors that I hung out with every night. So it was really fun. I was like, oh, my God. Anyway, so that formed it there. And and then we all came to New York to do it. So that's how that all worked. But that's that question. Do you have anything else to say? I mean, I can go on and on.

[35:41] Kevin David Thomas: That was I was going to say, keep going, because that was fascinating.

[35:49] Charlotte d'Amboise: Well, they were. Well, the ultimate thing is, is that, you know, it was the show got got terrible reviews in London when we did it. And and it was we had Barbara Cook then we didn't have. Right. And and I remember the show got terrible reviews. And I and Barbara Cook, I remember, was so unhappy. She was unhappy the whole time. I remember. And Debbie Allen was, you know, working us to death. But I, you know, I love Debbie Allen. I love to be Terry Hans was very removed and odd. That's all I remember about him. And I just remember thinking. How are we moving this? We all thought it was going to close. And then suddenly the director comes and he's like, we're going to Broadway. And then the last performance, I remember sitting down on the balcony of the Stratford, and he did a big, you know, fireworks, like incredible fireworks.

Unbelievable for like we're moving to Broadway and the end of Carrie. And I remember thinking, where's this money coming from? And what's going on? What's going on? This is weird, but OK, we're going to Broadway. And. They're going to make some changes, right? Because the show always had potential. There was a lot of potential there. So we all were like, OK, great, we're going to go Broadway. We'll make some changes. We go to Broadway and not any changes were made. Joe was exactly the same, except for Betty Buckley being cast as. The mother, Barbara Cook went, I'm out. Yeah. And then they brought in Betty Buckley. And that was the only change. Other than that, nothing got changed. And I remember all of us going, we're going to get killed.

We're going to get killed. You know, we all kind of, you know, we knew it. And then also, you know, it was but but mind you, we'd have full standing ovations, we were packed every night. People we only did two weeks, but it was like the excitement in the air was insane. And it was it was like, how are we? We're a hit. I know the show's not great. We can't. And yet the audiences were screaming and. But also, I remember taking my bow and I remember hearing boos and I remember calling my mom. I remember calling my mom going, Mommy, Mommy, I think I'm hearing booze. I'm not sure, but I think I'm hearing boo. And it was so wacky. And you just sort of threw yourself on the line full out. And and anyway, and then it closed very quickly.

It got bad reviews and it closed. But I I and it's the hugest. I mean, that show never stops. I mean, I have so many fans from that show. Oh, yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. And I do have to say. Betty Buckley and Lindsay Haitley, their their performances, there's nothing to this day. I've ever seen that's better than that performance between the two of them.

[39:01] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, I agree that it is.

[39:04] Charlotte d'Amboise: It still gives me chills. And any foot I see, oh, she was so good. And so Betty Buckley was like, I've never seen anything like that. Part was made for her. And she took it. She everything that she does and everything that is brilliant about her was on that stage. It was it was made in that role. And she was spelled. It was spelled by me. She was unbelievable. Unbelievable.

[39:24] Kevin David Thomas: Let me ask you a question. So you're in rehearsal and something isn't working for you. Do you say how do you say something to the director or do you go, let me try to work it out on my my own before I bring it up? What what to you is the right protocol or etiquette for all of this stuff?

[39:41] Charlotte d'Amboise: Well, I think in those days, I in those days, I didn't really speak up that much. I was twenty-three, twenty-three, twenty-four, I was really young. Twenty-four. Yes, twenty-four. And I you know, I didn't know, you know, I just did my shit. And truthfully, any of my stuff, there was nothing they could change that was going to change anything of my stuff. I mean, I'm you know, I knew I knew a lot that was wrong with the show. But we all know that I do. I've done millions of shows in my life, but I've never gone up to the director and said, this is wrong, this is wrong, this needs to be fixed. I never felt that I had that power. Betty Buckley had that power, but I never felt I had that power at that age, you know, where I could go. This is not working. You have to change it, you know. And I think I remember Betty calling me a lot at night. You know, I don't know. I wonder if she even remembers, you know, going wanting to talk about her character.

[44:42] Charlotte d'Amboise: And then I would go see the show and go, is their choice a lot better than mine? Let me go with my choice or hey, their choice is fucking good, I'm taking it. I would do that. I always worked first and naturally finding when instinctually when my choices, because I knew that'd be individual and that would be it and then I would look at it once and go, okay, I like my choices and then, and that's how often I would do auditions for things too. And then if I were replacing and then when I did replace, I'd really stick with my own choices, but stay in the realm of the show. Of course.

[45:22] Robert W. Schneider: That's great advice for anyone replacing. I gotta say, I saw Chicago last night and the whole Roxy section, it was literally euphoric. I mean what you do with that is literally a masterclass. Especially last night, the bit with the 23-year-old in the front row.

[45:40] Charlotte d'Amboise: Oh my God. The 23-year-old. Did she wait, when you saw it last night, cause she was 20. You thought she was three?

[45:52] Robert W. Schneider: Cause she was so far.

[45:53] Charlotte d'Amboise: Yeah. I was like, she, she, I loved that whole bit. Is that, was that. So hard about that. Normally what I do is if there's like, if I can see somebody that's very, very young in the front row, cause that's an added bit. I always go to them. I go, oh, you should, you know, hi, how are you? They say your name. I said, you shouldn't be listening, listening to this. And they go, and then I say, how old are you? And they go five or whatever. Yeah. And I go five. Oh, five's good. Five's good. And then the audience laughs like, you know, like five-year-olds should be watching this, right? That's the joke. But last night, which is funny cause maybe you didn't hear it. She said she was 23. I said, oh, you're so cute. How old are you? You shouldn't be listening to this. And she goes 23. And the whole cast went nuts.

[46:49] Robert W. Schneider: Oh my God. You've got egg on your face.

[46:53] Charlotte d'Amboise: I've heard it by going, oh, what kind of skincare do you use? Are you so, well, you're so fantastic. I was something like that. And she said beauty. And I said, oh, beauty. I don't know. I, somehow I got out of it, but that was the joke. But it was 23. She looked, I thought she was going to be 13 cause I could see it still work. It still works with 13-year-olds. It's 23. Oh my God. Anyway. But yeah, that's, that's normally not in it. It's only that. I only add, if there's somebody really young in the front row, that's all so good.

[47:23] Robert W. Schneider: It's so good. But the way you navigate it and the way you build it is so beautifully constructed.

[47:31] Charlotte d'Amboise: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to ask you honestly, how much of that is you? How much of that is Walter? How did you come to that?

[47:40] Charlotte d'Amboise: It's all me. Yeah. The thing I love about Walter is, and I also have to think the long J and, and ranking at the longevity of the show has a lot to do with them, with them is, you know, he allows everybody to bring their own to their parts. He knows them very well. You know, and he'll give you their intention of what each of you are and what you, you know what I mean? Cause they're very distinct, the characters and then he just lets you fly. So every Roxy that you'll see, we'll do it very differently unless they steal, you know, if they see my Roxy and go, I want to do that, that, that, that, but it's all, I didn't mean talking to the conductor. I never used to do that. You know, that's been added.

Just the dancing in it. You know, I add all that, you know, most of the Roxy's don't dance at all. And I used to do, and it's morphed. I used to do a lot of other dancing. I used to go into a whole cuckoo dance and I mean, it's, it's, I've gone through many phases in it, but I've been allowed to do that because of Walter. And, but you have to stay in the realm of the story. What happens sometimes is that people lose your intention and, and you know, the intention of the monologue is to see how desperate she is to be famous. And that's the main thing you want to see in that. And then how you go about it, you want to see, you know, you can do it so many different ways, but that, if that does not come across in that monologue, then you've lost, then it's lost.

Then it's a waste. That's the main objective, you know, the sheer passion and, and like her life depends on this chance that she has, you know, that she can actually be a star, you know, that ambition. So that, that's what needs to be seen. And then you can play around all in it, all you want, you know, and, and, and that's what's made this show so fun because of the freedom I've had. I've, I have that freedom in that monologue and I love it every night's different every night.

[49:40] Robert W. Schneider: Oh yeah. Now, how do you stay creative when you don't get a lot of freedom when it is you're going in as a replacement and, oh yeah, well, she always crossed the six on this line. So you have to cross out. Like, how do you, how do you keep that fresh for yourself?

[49:55] Charlotte d'Amboise: Right. Well, I mean, I, I felt, I, first of all, I never just do that. I never can do it. I never can do it. Um, and all the shows I've done, I've always, uh, I'm just trying to think of any of the shows I've done where I have felt that way. I've always had a lot of freedom, not as much as Roxy because that Roxy monologue is complete. I have the whole stage to myself and I can do whatever the fuck I want. You know what I mean? I, most shows don't have that. You're working with a partner and you know, you can, you can mess around, you know, you can, but you're, you don't have that kind of freedom of dance and go into your world. I mean, I can do anything. I have, I have freedom physically, mentally and in every way.

And the rest of the show, I don't have it as much like, you know, like even courtroom, you know, but all of it, I still, I still always leave open like any actor does. Any actor does to, to stay in the moment and say the line differently, you know, say it differently. The only time I felt slightly stuck and that was just a chorus line. And not that I didn't play it differently every night acting wise. I just felt constraint in going off to be funny. And whenever I did that, I knew it was the wrong choice. I had to stay straight, paying straight woman. Like if I had to do Camelot or, you know, you know, sound of music or I don't, I'm just trying to think of roles or where you're the straight woman where you're just the ingenue, the ingenue.

I think that would be harder for me because you're not the funny one. You're the straight woman, you know, that's just says your line and you're beautiful and you sing well and you're, I want to be funny. I want to be cool. I want to make choices that aren't typical. I like to make choices that aren't always that surprise you. I'm not very good at like Bebe Neuwirth is brilliant and going, da-dum, da-dum, da-dum. That's a funny line, funny line. And there's the punchline. I know. Hit that punchline. Right, right, right. Good at that. When, as soon as I have to do that, I'm like, I'm not good at that. I'm good at going, oh, that's not funny, but oh, I can make that funny. Yeah. Like finding something that's not the, but as soon as I have to force to be like this, this, but I, I, I, I, I just not my thing. I like to find nuance in a weird way.

[52:38] Robert W. Schneider: Oh no, it does. And, and friends, if you see, if you see Charlotte as Roxy, you'll, you'll get a full sense of this. Cause it really is a brilliant take on the role. Kev, do you want to ask Charlotte about 1989?

[52:52] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Yes. So, you know, it's, it's amazing that you went from, you know, you did Cats and then you're dancing your face off in Song and Dance. We got to see you play a part in, in Carrie. I mean, you're, you've got your own song, you've got your acting chops and then Jerome Robbins probably comes along and now you get to do like everything all together, all at once to quote the Oscar-winning movie that just came out. But like you, I mean, you had to do everything, not only that, but all of the greatest hits all at once. What was the process like auditioning? Did you know Jerome Robbins at this time?

[53:24] Charlotte d'Amboise: I think you did.

[53:24] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[53:24] Charlotte d'Amboise: Okay. Well, I didn't know him. I did not know him, but he knew me. And first of all, your dad, I, uh, yeah, no, he knew me because he's because Jerome Robbins saw everything. Ah, he never missed an off-Broadway show, a Broadway show. So he, I realized now had already seen me in Song and Dance and believe me, he saw Song and Dance. Martin and he was a feel and he was affiliated with City Ballet. So believe me, he saw Song and Dance probably several times. Yeah. He saw me in Song and Dance. He saw me in Carrie. He knew me. So I realized that too. And not only me, he knew Scott Wise, he Mary Ann Lamb. He knew, um, Joey McNeely. He knew us all from all those shows.

[57:17] Charlotte d'Amboise: All of us. Joey, Mary, and Lamb. And he wanted me to do Dreams. He wanted me for Dreams Come True really badly. It was that character number and he had nobody and he really wanted me. So, and then he didn't put anybody on contract for any roles and that was the one thing I knew about him. He likes to mish around, he doesn't like in the ballet world. He doesn't like to say, you're Anita, you're this, you're that. He wanted to be able to put four people into Anita and see which one he liked best. That's how it worked. So, I knew that about him. So, I was like, I'm not going in unless I get things signed in my contract because I don't want to be auditioning for six months.

[58:02] Kevin David Thomas: Smart, very smart.

[58:04] Charlotte d'Amboise: Anita in West Side Story, which by the way, nowadays would never happen because I'm not Latino. But at the time, I wanted to dance that America number. I was like, I want to dance that America number. I can dance the shit out of it. I want it. So, I stayed really strong saying I had to go in separately and audition for it, for that part. And I did. I went in and separately auditioned and then I was like, I'm not signing anything unless you put that in the contract because he said, I'll give you Anita and I said, great, put it in the contract. But even when it was in the contract, he had me that whole six months, he'd put in somebody else singing it, he'd put in somebody. Because I knew, one, I felt terrible because I felt like, oh, she's doing it better than me.

And two, I also knew I'm breaking their heart. Like, they don't know. It's in my contract. Like, you're not going to be able to do it. It's going to be mine. And so that was kind of really, really kind of icky and rough. But I was kind of stayed true with that. But he did not know me. He had never seen me except on stage. And I loved him. I got along with him great. I just loved him. I worked with him every day on Dreams Come True because there was no record of it. There was no recording of it. So he had to recreate it. He had to recreate. And it was just me and three boys. He loved doing it because he loved physical comedy. He loved doing physical comedy and he could be creative in the moment.

We worked on it literally every day for six months. And then during previews I was out for a few shows and they cut the number. I had somebody else do it for a little bit and then they cut it for two shows and then I remember that was the number. I remember hearing they were going to cut a number and that was the number they cut eventually. So that was painful. But that was the best learning experience of my life was working with him. I never in my life worked with anybody like him. I felt it was that feeling of whatever I do I'm going to be great. He won't let me get on that stage and not be great. Watching me like a hawk. There wasn't a moment he wasn't watching everything you do. He'd go, try it this way, try it that way.

He was more obsessed than anybody. You think about you're obsessed with your performance. He was more obsessed with your performance than anybody. He tried every way of saying a certain line until you were back to what you were doing originally. But still it was the best. It was always the best. Everything was high, high, high quality. It was brilliant. He also knew how to he was so good with humanity and focus. I remember learning about focus. How important it is to focus a scene or a song or a dance and build a dance. He was genius. Nothing about it. I got to work with him for six months with a genius. I loved it. I loved every minute of it. Every minute of it.

[1:01:16] Kevin David Thomas: I was going to say when you build a dance what do you mean by that? What is successful in building a dance?

[1:01:24] Charlotte d'Amboise: You can't start because then you've got nowhere to go. You have to start smaller and build, build, build so that at the end, when you get to the end you're like, ah! Or you can't just be one note the whole time. Lots of energy, lots of energy, lots of energy at the end. It doesn't mean anything. When you start it and then you start it and you build it and you build it, you build it, you build it. There are very few choreographers that know how to do it. Bob Fosse did it. Tom Robbins does it. I can name very few that know how to do that in the Broadway world. In ballet it's different because it's a different kind of thing. When you're telling the story and you've got music you have to build it. You add more people. Then it builds to the end. So many shows don't do that at all. It's so frustrating to me. I look at it and I'm like, okay. You have to go as an audience member on a journey. Go on a journey.

[1:02:30] Kevin David Thomas: Why do you think that is? Do you think that today directors and choreographers don't trust the audience or there's a fear that they're going to get bored easily? Where has that changed and why has that changed?

[1:02:40] Charlotte d'Amboise: I've given them everything all at once but that's stupid. I don't get it. You have to trust in simplicity. That's the other thing too. Very few people can trust it. I saw Moulin Rouge. I hate to be mean. Be simple. Have somebody alone doing something instead of just going. It's like God, if you just stopped for a minute and just focused it people would be so happy. People don't understand that even if the music is going wild and you do nothing great choreographers are very hard to find and where you can trust in simplicity is very important. I'm not crazy about the choreographers these days. I don't want to say that's in a mean way. No. It's a different form of storytelling. I feel there's something lacking and missing in it and maybe it is the world wanting.

They just think in your face, in your face. That's great. They think that's great. We miss the subtlety. That's why there are no Jerome Robbins out there. Also Michael Bennett. I think they're also just the director choreographer. Choreographers, the other thing I have to say and it really upsets me and the Tony Awards that they have not that they put it in the other group where they're not on live television winning their award. The choreographers do everything. No, really. You think they don't. They do everything. Of course, there are a few directors that they have the concept. There's the choreographers and they're going conceptually doing this, doing all the transitions, doing all the work.

Mostly all the work. These great choreographers like Bob Fosse and Michael Bennett, they're going I don't want to be. I need to do the whole thing. Even Robbie Marshall who started off as a choreographer, he finally was like, I'm directing. I know more than the director. I look at the director and I go, that needs to be fixed. That needs to be fixed. You're not fixing that. I think a lot of choreographers have that and that's why but to be able to direct and choreograph, you do have to have that kind of mind. There are very few that have but the ones that have, there's nobody that can compare to them. Nobody.

[1:05:18] Kevin David Thomas: Charlotte, we always end with this question so I'm going to throw it to you which is what do you know now that maybe you wished you had known when you were first starting out?

[1:05:28] Charlotte d'Amboise: Somebody asked me that. Not to worry so much. Not to worry so much but then again because I worried, I got things done. I don't know if that's a bad thing.

[1:05:46] Kevin David Thomas: It's a great answer.

[1:05:50] Charlotte d'Amboise: I don't know if that's the advice I'd give and I was very realistic about why I wouldn't. I'm just trying to think. What would be the advice I would like to take with me? Trust myself more. I feel like now as a performer, I trust myself. That only takes time. I don't know if you can do that naturally. Very few people that come out of the womb that know who they are and they can trust. They're very, very few and there are a few like a Kristen Chenoweth. I mean she knew who she was at 10. She just was who she is. Some people are born with that. I was born that way as a dancer. I knew how to just be on the stage and be authentic completely. Completely. It was innate but I did not know that as an actress or a singer or I always just trust that you have to keep learning but I did that too.

You just have to keep you have to trust in yourself and keep learning. Keep trusting yourself but keep learning from other people to get more, to get more, to get more because the more you do that, the more you trust yourself.

[1:07:12] Kevin David Thomas: Love that. And listeners, if you want to see some great education go on over once again to the Ambassador Theater. Go see Charlotte in Chicago. It really is something special. Charlotte, thank you so much for spending time with us today. It has been such an honor for us.

[1:07:30] Charlotte d'Amboise: Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Sorry I was a little late.

[1:07:34] Kevin David Thomas: No, you were fine. You and the dogs go have fun. Have a wonderful show. You've got a full week. You have a wonderful show tonight.

[1:07:40] Charlotte d'Amboise: Friends, thanks so much for listening and we'll talk to you again soon.

[1:07:42] Kevin David Thomas: Okay. Bye.

[1:07:44] Charlotte d'Amboise: Bye.