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[0:03] Hal Luftig: Hi everyone, this is Hal Luftig with my Broadway Podcast Network show, Broadway Biz, where every episode I will chat with my friends, some of the top theater professionals in the business about the business of Broadway.

[0:22] Hal Luftig: I'll join the Broadway Biz.

[0:25] Hal Luftig: You'll be a Broadway Biz.

[0:28] Hal Luftig: You'll learn to raise cash to open your smash.

[0:31] Hal Luftig: You'll be all the rage from the patron stage.

[0:34] Hal Luftig: In no time you'll know the business of show the greatest job there is.

[0:40] Hal Luftig: So join our squad as we unplug our love things Broadway bus.

[0:49] Hal Luftig: Let's get busy with the Broadway Biz.

[0:56] Hal Luftig: My guest today is Colleen Jennings-Roggensack, the executive director of Arizona State University Gammage. In addition to her work as executive director, Colleen also serves as the vice president for cultural affairs at ASU.

[1:14] Hal Luftig: I had such a blast with her when the Kinky Boots Tour played in Tempe a few years ago. This has been one of the most inspiring conversations I've shared on the podcast.

[1:32] Hal Luftig: So let's give a big Broadway Biz welcome to one of my favorite and smartest people I know, Colleen Jennings-Roggensack.

[1:40] Hal Luftig: Hey, Colleen.

[1:41] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Hi, Hal.

[1:42] Hal Luftig: How are you?

[1:44] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I'm great. Wishing I was seeing you in person.

[1:47] Hal Luftig: I know, me too.

[1:49] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Me too. But I was thinking about the, you know, seeing you in person, and you know what I remember most, one of my favorite stories about you is when Kinky Boots the Tour actually officially you were the first stop. You know, we did our tech in Vegas, but then you, Tempe, was the first official stop.

[2:08] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We had agreed that you would said if we came to Tempe early on in the run that you would wear the boots out to make the curtain speech and that I would join you. And so, you know, I put on my boots, which I still was toggling because I don't know how women do it. And you walk on stage from stage left, and I came off from stage right, and I looked at you and I thought those don't look like weird boots. She looks like really good in those.

[2:41] Hal Luftig: Thank you. It was a really great night, and we got to tell the audience that it was our first stop. And it was just terrific, and they loved you. They just thought that was you were fabulous, fabulous, fabulous, fabulous.

[2:56] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Yeah, yeah. Well, it was a great warm house.

[2:59] Hal Luftig: So, Colleen, let's just jump into this. Could you tell us? Because I don't know this, how you got started and what was your path into theater and how all that landed you in Arizona?

[3:11] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: You know how it's interesting because my father was in the Air Force, so I lived in 13 states and two foreign countries before I went off to school. And my parents always believed that wherever we lived, and that included Naha Okinawa, that we would just jump into the culture there and figure out what was going on. And the way they made us feel that we weren't always strangers is they took us to the theater, and whether it was kabuki or whether it was Broadway.

[3:41] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And my first Broadway show was actually, I'm going to date myself, Ethel Merman in Gypsy. And I was little, very little, and my parents would take us, and sometimes, you know, they could, they were not very wealthy people, so we were never in the best seats. But I remember when they took us to Gypsy, the usher said, you shouldn't have children at this show. My parents were like, it's a musical, and our children are accustomed to musicals, and so that was like my earliest venture into it.

[4:17] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And the other thing was my parents were fairly formal, so we always had dinner at the dinner table, except the night of the Tonys, and we could eat off of TV trays, not for the Oscars or the Emmys, but the Tonys, and I remember the Tonys back then because, and it's probably why I also love plays so much, is they would do a section of a play. I just always have this really strong vivid memory, so that was always a part of my life.

[4:46] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But when I went off to school, I studied 16th century literature and modern dance, so my parents knew I was doomed, and they always felt like please let her marry well. Despite because we don't know what she's gonna do with those. But as a result of my modern dance, I became more engaged in performances on stage, and I met an incredible person, his name was Shelton Stanville, and Shelton actually, over the course of his career, ran Vienna Wolf Trap, he ran the Woodruff Center, he ran the LA Music Center, he ran two cultural Olympics, and I met him when he was running the theater in Fort Collins, Colorado.

[5:29] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And he said, you know, you have such curiosity, you could actually do this work. And I said, well, what work is it? I had no idea what a presenter was or what the theater was. I knew it from being a dancer and touring and doing those things, and we became friends, and ultimately he hired me for my first job, and I went from job to job to job to this job at ASU at ASU Gammage.

[5:56] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And my first real goal was to one, always be involved with dance, two, always be involved with live work on the stage. And I knew my life would be happy, and it is.

[6:08] Hal Luftig: Wow. That's the short version. I just have to backtrack one question because I'm curious. When you went to see Gypsy with your family, what was the usher most concerned about?

[6:19] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: That you would see this like little strip number, or that you were actually seeing Ethel Merman?

[6:24] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I'm not sure when she was she was I think she was really concerned about us seeing this little strip number. And I and my parents were like, what are you talking about? This kid's seen so much work. You know, my first work was actually Madame Butterfly, which we saw in Standing Room Seats. It's a long time to stand, but I remember hearing Leonard Bernstein conduct, and so you know, I think she was just afraid of that.

[6:55] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And here's a funny little story has nothing to do with the theater, but when we were itty biddies, my brother and sister and I, if we opened a magazine and there was someone in a bra or someone, and we would go, ooh, and we would giggle. So, do you know what my parents did? They took us to the museum, and they took us to the section of sculptures and statues and naked people, and we were so exhausted that we never oohed and aahed again. That was it.

[7:21] Hal Luftig: That was genius.

[7:23] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: That was absolute, yeah. That was absolutely, that was very smart of them.

[7:30] Hal Luftig: And how old were you? Can I just ask a personal side? How old were you when you went to see Madame Butterfly?

[7:33] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Oh, oh yeah. I was five years old. That was my first opera. My parents took us a lot to expose us a lot to theater too. And when I was about eight or nine, they tried the opera. And you know, New York City Opera was the opera for the people, and they took us to Madame Butterfly. And which, you know, before this was the day before subtitles, so I kind of just had to follow along, or mom had to whisper in my ear what was going on.

[8:02] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And you know, at the end, even as an eight-year-old boy, I thought, Mom, like, why did you take me to an opera where you know the woman kills herself at the end in front of her child? And my mom's answer was, oh, you know, I forgot that part.

[8:23] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: You forgot that part. And to the day she died, my brothers and I would get a huge laugh out of that. Whenever she would say something silly, or you know, like mom-like, we would go, oh, right, and this is the woman who took an eight-year-old to Madame Butterfly.

[8:41] Hal Luftig: So you've been at ASU now for how many years? How long?

[8:45] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: 28 years.

[8:48] Hal Luftig: Wow. Wow. That's that is fantastic. And I must say to our listeners, you run such a terrific organization there.

[8:59] Hal Luftig: You can just sense it from your staff to your audience members, you know, everybody is there to embrace and enjoy theater and whatever performance you might be doing.

[9:13] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Um, it starts from the top.

[9:16] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I have great staff. I have great staff, and they are truly committed. You know, our mission, Hal, is connecting communities, and so we connect communities through the amazing work like Kinky Boots that we put on stage.

[9:21] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We connect communities through so many different ways that people really come to understand each other. And I just think you know this because I think we've sat together in the theater, but there's nothing like sitting in the seat with a lot of people waiting for the curtain to go up, and you're going on a journey, and you're going on it together, and you don't know where that journey is going to take you.

[9:58] Hal Luftig: You know, speaking of that, you know, how is ASU Gammage planning? Have you guys started? You must have to plan the safe return to live performances?

[10:09] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We absolutely have, and it's the work I think of most theaters, in particular the theaters on the road. We have been training and putting together COVID practices.

[10:16] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We have been training our staffs, we have been looking at everything from how who knew we got into show business to learn about epidemiology and filter systems.

[10:32] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Right. You know, right? It's like, yeah, my life is very glamorous, but how, you know, where people would put the circles on the carpet where people will stand, we're using UV ray lights to use it in the pit, to use it on the stage. We're in preparation mode.

[10:51] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: At the same time, as you well know, and you spoke about my lovely audience, we're in constant communication with our audiences. We're they get an email with a video from me saying, and this is what we're going to do when you come back. You will wear your masks, we will do touchless tickets, we will, you know, do pre-packaged things at the concession stand, we will have sprayed down your seats, we will, you know, how, and you know this, your viewers may not, your listeners may not.

[11:23] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We raised 9.6 million dollars to put in bathrooms because Frank Lloyd Wright built this beautiful 3,017-seat space with 24 restrooms for women.

[11:36] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Hello, did not work, did not work. And 40 for men, 40 stalls for men, 24 for women. So we built these beautiful stalls, and they did. We built these beautiful bathrooms. Well, now with COVID, we can't use them all because we have to block them off.

[11:52] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So we're back down to fewer bathrooms. It's kind of funny to us, but it's like, oh, but that's like, you know, part of that, part of that. But at the same time, too, just like you have your listeners tuning in, we have said we will continue to remind people that art and culture is important to them.

[12:12] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So we have this huge digital platform. So recently we just had Daniel J. Watts, who's up for a Tony from Tina, and Lindsay Roberts, who's an amazing, amazing artist who's been with us with Porgy and Bess, the Colored Purple.

[12:28] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I'm trying to think of all the shows. And we had them, I interviewed them, and then people could ask questions. And so we have an interviewing program. We're also trying to put Broadway performers to work. It's a frightening thing. We um Christina Alabado, who's in Mean Girls, is coming through town, and she called and said, I'm coming through. We want to just stop off and let's have a socially distanced drink. And I said, What have you been doing? She said, Well, I've been working on a cabaret show. And I went, would you consider streaming it? She said, I would consider doing it. So we're gonna stream her on the stage. We're gonna pay her, stream her on the stage. She's gonna do her cabaret show. And uh, and then we're gonna do a QA, a live QA. So we're we're trying to always let people know that that we're still here. The theater is still here, and and they not only love it and miss it, but we actually have 16,500 subscribers who are just waiting.

[13:27] Hal Luftig: I was just gonna ask you, it sounds what you're doing is terrific about keeping people informed, posted, it makes them feel connected, it doesn't make them feel not forgotten, and it's informative, which you know they love too. How overall would you say your subscriber base has responded to this pandemic and the lockdown? Have you found that they're just as interested in keeping subscriptions and coming to the theater? Have you found some resistance?

[13:57] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: No, the answer is yes, yes, yes, they are interested, they want to come back. Now, there are some who are either of a certain age or their health will never allow them. I've read some when you talk about tearing up, I've had some dear, dear letters and emails sent saying, you know, Colleen, I've been a subscriber as long as you've been here. It is the greatest joy of my life, but my health will never permit me to come back. Will never permit me to come back. And then I have others, irrespective of age, going, I'm ready. When you say, open those doors, Colleen, I will be first in line. So it is, you know, I think you and I have done an amazing thing in bringing joy and wonder to people's lives.

And now it's not an extra, it's a necessity. So that that's kind of where everyone is. But but just as you asked, what kind of protocols are we doing? That's what they ask. What will we have to do? Will it be safe? And how will we do it? You know, some of them have said, well, let's not have any new missions. And I said, Well, that's sort of great, except if we're doing a three-hour show and the performers have to have a break. And no, we can't do it without it. And also we cannot do socially distanced. And I have some again wonderful supporters, and one of them who will remain nameless was at their beach home in California. And they said, Well, Colleen, you just name whatever the ticket price is, and the 50 of us will come in and we'll get other friends and we'll just we'll pay for all the tickets and we'll just watch the show.

So it kind of defeats the purpose of connecting communities and 50 of you, you know, in a 3,017 seat house. Uh, but people uh it's it's it's hard. It's hard too because as I just mentioned, a couple of performers' names, I have become very close to people who come to our theater because as you know, Hal, it's my home. You came, you had a performance, we had dinner, we had a performance, and then we threw a party to welcome everyone. And so it people don't realize that it's just a lot of people who are trying to make it right now. And part of my job and responsibility is how to support them through this.

[16:21] Hal Luftig: Well, God, that's just one of the reasons I love you so, because you know, you think of things like that, like the you know, this of the staff and people who need to be paid, and and you know, what life might be like for them, and you know, the the it's it's quite scary actually, and everybody has their own, you know, way in and way out. But the general thing that I'm noticing is a level of anxiety because nobody, you know, the anxiety of not knowing. You know, I want to just say one more thing, Hal, because you know, all Hal and I sit together on the Broadway League Board of Directors, and there are only 42 extra special task forces that we both sit on, and one of those extra special task forces deals with epidemiology.

So one of the skill sets that we're all learning, and Tom Gabbard is our guru on that, is we are meeting with epidemiologists from Israel, Finland, MIT, ASU, Harvard, Yale to talk about vaccines, but to also talk about testing and tracing and being able to test an audience and test our actors and our musicians and our crew, that will help us to open sooner. So, so you know, the vaccine will come one day, but in the meantime, we are experimenting with the testing and the tracing and making sure everyone is safe. And ASU does, you know, I've been tested three times. We have a saliva test. I can walk into a building, get my test and be good for the day. And I I'm also very curious, and have had some discussions about putting a company in a bubble.

So you come just like they did with Diana, you you are in a bubble, you work, and you come to the theater and you work and everyone else has been tested and go back. So we're imagining other ways to try and move us ahead and back onto the stage. And protect everybody.

[18:26] Hal Luftig: You know, I would love your opinion on this because, as you said, you know, we're part of the committee that is trying to learn about more than I ever thought I would ever need to know. Um, but I've also wondered, I remember after 9-11, and we all had to talk about how we implemented security in the theater because people were very afraid that you know we would be sitting ducks sitting in a theater, you know, 1200, 1500 of us, and would be a perfect place for like a next attack. So we had to, you know, really think about you know, wanding people down and looking into their pocketbooks and things like that. And I remember we all as an industry were very concerned that you know, were we scaring the public by doing all of that as they entered the theater, or were we reassuring them?

And I'd love to get your opinion on what how you feel about that same question as we come back from COVID. You know, are we are we reassuring them by doing all this the temperature tracing? Or are we just reminding people like, uh oh, this could be a dangerous place for you to be.

[19:39] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I I think that we are telling people we want to take care of you. And and I remember thinking, oh, we were gonna come to the theater, and and we do mags, bags and dogs. So we have mectometers, we have dogs, and we search bags. And so I being very afraid of how people were going to respond. The first thing we did was we sent all of the women's subscribers little clear pack plastic evening bags that said ASU Gammage on it. And we said, so when you come, bring your bag. It'll be really simple. We it's very chic. We want you to come to the theater. And people, you know, they they learned, they adapted, and more importantly, they felt safe. They felt like I'm gonna come into the theater, the dogs already slept through, we've done this.

I don't have to worry about anything happening. This is a safe space. And I think they will feel the same way too with our protocols in coming back. Um, Arizona's been interesting because unlike New York and how very smart your governor was, uh, we didn't shut down. So we kept going. And our governor never said wear a mask. Our mayor said wear a mask, and we said you must wear masks. But it made it uh harder, and I think the the impact has lasted longer. Now the whole country's back up, the rates are back up again, are rising, but they will go back down again. But I I I think that people are you know smart enough and care for each other because the wearing of the mask says, I care about you.

Not I care about me, I care about you, and that's why I'm wearing one. And we've done some Gammage masks and some other things. So yeah, I think people will, yeah. I think our community, our audiences will be very happy to do that.

[21:37] Hal Luftig: That's that's you know, thank you, because that is good to know. I've as a person in this industry, I always am concerned about what's too much, you know, and what's you know, um, you know, enough to make them feel comfortable. And I I I hear you, and I think what you're doing is great, but it is a fine line, you know, because you don't want uh people to get scared. But I agree with you. I think over time, especially when uh vaccinations happen, it will just give that extra layer of okay, you know, we're we're you know protected. You'll have to assume that most people in that theater will have been vaccinated, so um that will help tremendously. Colleen, tell me what were you working on when the shutdown happened, and what were some of the things that you were looking forward to when you know it all had a stop?

[22:31] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Well, it's very interesting because we had just finished uh Once on This Island, and they had left us in Tempe and gone on to Vegas, and we were preparing for Mean Girls, and I uh we were very excited. We were still we had Mean Girls, Come From Away, four weeks of Lion King. I mean, we had a lot of work ahead of us, and that that was kind of the hardest part because as you know, we didn't immediately say, Okay, we're gonna close down. We're saying, Okay, March is okay, March, we're gonna shut down, but we're gonna be open in June. So, all we did was hopscotch shows. So we hopscotched and we hopscotched and we hopscotched, and we're still hopscotching. That was you know, I I tease our dear friend Sue Frost because my audience kept saying, We're gonna see Come From Away.

I go, yes, and you're going to see it now in June, and now you're going to see it in August, and now it's going to be October, and you know, that that was kind of the hardest part of all of that was being able to do that. And I actually had been in New York because Company was in previews, so it wasn't open just yet. So, and I'd seen um Cambodian Rock Band was at uh Signature. I went to see that, and I went to see um We Will All Die at uh Second Stage, and then the city shut down. So I was actually in New York as the shutdown was occurring, and and like I felt like I was getting the last plane out of Saigon, got out of New York and came home to we were, you know, everyone's like, I don't think we need to shut down any, and then it was like, no, we need to, and we need to do it right away, and uh yeah, so that's what we were working on, and we are still working on those shows and making sure those shows come.

I think Hal, that's gonna be the tough job for us, is looking at what's going to come when the road opens again, and what kind of work will happen when Broadway opens again, and you as you know, we're having a bifurcated Tony season, which I'm very excited about and I'm going to dress up for.

[24:51] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Are you really?

[24:52] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I'm totally gonna dress up.

[24:54] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: All right, I'll tell you what.

[24:55] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: If you trust we did this with the boots, remember?

[24:58] Hal Luftig: Yes.

[24:58] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I said if you said if you come here first, I'll wear the boots.

[25:01] Hal Luftig: Okay, if you dress up, I'm saying it here on the podcast, I will wear my tuxedo.

[25:07] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Oh, great, great, great.

[25:08] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Yes, I will be in a gown.

[25:10] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I will be in a gown.

[25:11] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And I said, it's the Tony.

[25:12] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So yes, all right, and we'll send each other pictures.

[25:12] Hal Luftig: We'll send each other right exactly exactly.

[25:18] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I will be so if memory stands, I'm moving along.

[25:22] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: If memory stands, you're very active with your local government representatives, which is one another thing I just adore about you.

[25:30] Hal Luftig: How do you engage with them? Can you talk a little bit how you engage with them and how you engage with them specifically about the arts?

[25:38] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Absolutely, Hal. Uh, as you know, I sit on the legislative uh government relations group for the league, but I have always been very active with my legislators because they are our authorizing environments and both sides of the aisle.

[25:55] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Uh John McCain, John and Cindy McCain. John was very dear friends, and he and Cindy supported one of our programs, which we call first, it's a first night program, military families first nights.

[26:09] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And we would have 200 military families come to a Broadway show on our stage.

[26:15] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And John and Cindy supported that.

[26:17] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So see, he was just wonderful.

[26:19] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But we have always spent time, I spend time with my legislators, not just here, but also in Washington.

[26:26] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I belong to Rotary 100.

[26:29] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I am a Rotarian.

[26:31] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And so part of that is I'm a good citizen.

[26:36] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And so part of that is I'm a good business citizen, but John McCain, my governor, the mayor all belong to Rotary.

[26:43] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So I got to see them every Friday when we would have Rotary, John when he was in town, and we could talk about the arts.

[26:51] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So that the not the very first time any legislator saw me, it was like, I need your help, I need you to do this, but rather, oh, there's Colleen, Grace Stanton, who is one of our representatives.

[27:01] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Woo-hoo, and he's been re-elected.

[27:03] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I was in his office, and you know, when we go to Washington to advocate on the hill, often you're meeting with the aides because our legislators in the House and in the Senate are doing work in the chamber.

[27:15] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So I came into his office with Jeff Daniels, and there were a group of other people, and I said, Oh, I'm here to talk about the arts.

[27:23] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And from the office, a second office, I hear, is that Colleen Jennings Brooke?

[27:29] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And my colleagues were with me, went, he knows you.

[27:32] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And I said, Oh, they they all know me.

[27:32] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: They all know me.

[27:36] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And so, because so when I sit down and say, this is what's really important, and tax credits are really important for the making of work and being able to make sure that we have health care for our performers and all these things, they're not looking at a stranger, they're looking at someone that they know.

[27:50] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And going to DC is quite a thrill and it can be overwhelming.

[27:56] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And I tell people how who go for the first time, I say, understand the senator and the representative that you're going to speak with, they work for you.

[28:07] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: That's the first thing you have to remember.

[28:09] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And not only do they work for you, but because we run a Broadway series and at different points we're up to 22,000, I have the ability to speak to 22,000 voters.

[28:20] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And they and I always open my conversation like that.

[28:23] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: They always go, okay, Colleen, what do you want?

[28:26] Hal Luftig: Wow.

[28:27] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Yeah.

[28:27] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So it's great.

[28:28] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But we've had we've had great legislators, and Kristen Cinema is wonderful.

[28:32] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: She's really carried our water in terms of pension and things of that nature.

[28:37] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And Mark Kelly, who will be going forward, I'm really excited to have him as well.

[28:42] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But to get to know them, our governor had a meeting, and he was doing COVID meetings, and he would select different citizens.

[28:50] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So he had like, I don't know how many people we were on the Zoom thing, and they said, put a question in the chat if you have one for the governor.

[28:58] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So I put one in, and he he didn't call on me.

[28:58] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: He didn't call on me.

[29:01] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: My husband went, Oh, maybe he's not going to call on you.

[29:03] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And he said, I saved Colleen Jennings Rogan Sack for last because I love Hamilton.

[29:11] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: It's my governor.

[29:13] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I said, yes.

[29:14] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And then my question to him was as you put your COVID task force together, will there be an arts representative?

[29:21] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Because what we do and we bring to the community is not just the art that's on the stage, but many of us support our downtown restaurants and hotels and things of that nature.

[29:30] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And he said, Of course, Colleen, you're on the task force.

[29:34] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But but I just think that's advocacy is something that we should be accustomed to doing all the time, all the time.

[29:43] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And right now, as you know, we have our Save Our Stages legislation, which is sitting up on the hill, and who knows what will happen with that.

[29:50] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And we have a restart bill as well.

[29:52] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But to know that that's that's part of the gig.

[29:56] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I was fortunate enough to be selected as one of three co-chairs for the state of Arizona to help craft Joe Biden's arts policy.

[30:05] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And his arts policy, which is on page nine 28 of the 98-page platform, Joe has an arts policy.

[30:14] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And that's really, really, really important.

[30:18] Hal Luftig: Wow.

[30:19] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I did not know that.

[30:20] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Yeah, he has an arts policy.

[30:22] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So I'm so happy you told me about that because I my next question was to ask you about when you speak to any representative, you know, uh in the government, local, federal, state, you know, in my experience, because I've gone to Washington with the league as well and spoken to representatives and things like that.

[30:40] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And it's always the thrust has been always about, you know, arts matter and and you know, it you know, culturally and things like that.

[30:48] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And you know, some respond better than others, you know, some of us, you know, they're in they get it, and some of them like look at us cross-eyed, like what the hell are you talking about?

[30:57] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But I think, and I'd love your opinion on this, that since COVID, every single person on in the in Washington has realized the economic impact that theater has on their community.

[31:14] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Um, no matter where they're from, there's a theater, either a local theater or uh, you know, a touring house near them.

[31:21] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And and you know, I've they've started to realize how much we actually bring in, not only on Broadway and for New York City, but even locally, I'm sure, you know, in in your theater in Tempe, when you're running, you know, you you're you're supporting a lot of other businesses.

[31:39] Hal Luftig: Has that that new topic been helpful to you or hindrance? How have you specifically handled that?

[31:46] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: It's spot on, great question, because not only has it been helpful, it has helped us in terms of locally and talking to our mayor and our governor, wanting to open up just as restaurants have wanted to open up and have.

[32:04] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And we since we have great weather, a lot of things are outdoors, but just as all of our hotels, but also the economic engine that we are.

[32:14] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We put in $50 million annually into the city coffers.

[32:19] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And that's not from ticket sales.

[32:22] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: That's from I hired a babysitter, I bought a new dress, I ate in the restaurant, I put gas in the car.

[32:29] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Those are all the ancillary things.

[32:31] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: As you know, our Broadway League does an economic study.

[32:35] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So over the years, Gammage has contributed over a billion dollars into the economy of the city and the state.

[32:43] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And we've always had great governors who have spoken about that.

[32:47] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Janet Napolitano, who is also a subscriber, was one who would always say, This, you know, economically, this is important.

[32:55] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: This is important to the life of the city, to our community, and not just spiritually, but economically.

[33:02] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So it has helped a great deal, a great deal.

[33:05] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And it gives us more partners how more partners when you're speaking to Governor Cuomo, when we're speaking to Governor Ducy to say we need to solve this problem and we need to solve it because of all of us, not just the arts in one narrow little box.

[33:23] Hal Luftig: I so agree with you, and I'm I'm thrilled that you see it the same way I do, because for years it's always frustrated me.

[33:31] Hal Luftig: Um how could they not see just the you know, from a business standpoint, an economic standpoint, what we what we bring into our local economies and the jobs and everything else, and that's why we call it show business.

[33:50] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Well, that's why and this program is specifically about the business of the show business.

[33:56] Hal Luftig: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it is.

[34:01] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: You know, you were part of the National Council of the Arts.

[34:04] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Can you talk about the way you approach these conversations as part of that community?

[34:10] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: You know what's what's phenomenal?

[34:11] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I was fortunate that President Clinton appointed me to the National Council for the Arts, and I was the first Western appointee, and Jane Alexander was the chair.

[34:21] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And it was during what time how that we referred to as the culture wars, or we thought it was at the height of the culture wars with Maplethorpe and Serrano and all of those things, but the culture wars just never went away.

[34:34] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So it was a really interesting and um kind of baptism by fire to belong to the council then, because we were granting federal dollars for the making of art, and at the same time, Jesse Helms was using it to bludgeon other political candidates over the head with saying, look where your federal dollars are going to this horrible thing or that horrible thing.

[34:59] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So I feel very strongly about not only am I a First Amendment baby, but I feel very strongly about artists and how work is made, and that our federal dollars support the work of creativity.

[35:15] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Because what we know now, and what everyone is learning through this pandemic that we're in is creative minds are the minds that will solve these problems.

[35:26] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: It isn't science, technology, it's creativity, and that the artist and the creator have a way of looking at things differently that will make a difference.

[35:36] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So I learned that greatly when going through the National Endowment of the Arts and protecting artists, and as a result, during that time, it was the highest budget the endowment has ever had, and it was 100 181.

[35:51] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So it was 181 million, and it now it's just 131 million.

[35:55] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But then it was the highest, and we fought for it and we believed in it.

[36:00] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And it was also art reaching out to the rural areas.

[36:05] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So an art not just being an urban activity and the province of few, but the province of many.

[36:11] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Because as you know, we do a lot of art education work.

[36:14] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We see 35,000 school children during the course of the time.

[36:19] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We have three different military programs.

[36:21] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I talked about military first night, but we also have Hero's Night, and we also have we recognize the past generation and we recognize the new generation coming in.

[36:30] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So we do a lot of we have Operation Date Night.

[36:33] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: So we reach a lot of different people in a way that no business can.

[36:38] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I think that's why other businesses long to be associated with us now, because we have that ability.

[36:46] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: The other pandemic we're going through is systemic racism.

[36:49] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And we have the ability.

[36:51] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: That we need to tell stories so we come to understand each other.

[36:55] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And what better way to do that than on the stage in a safe space?

[37:01] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: In a space that says, Welcome, all are welcome here, and this is everyone's stories.

[37:08] Hal Luftig: I couldn't agree with you more.

[37:10] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: And um, just a little self-plug, an aside here.

[37:14] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: It's the absolute reason I was determined to do Children of a Lesser God, because ostensibly it was about deaf versus hearing.

[37:22] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: But what I was really trying, hoping that production would say was who do we listen to? And how do we listen? You know, and who we do we assume is, you know, the the the um you know the the stronger voice, if you will.

[37:39] Hal Luftig: Yes, and I loved that production.

[37:42] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Well, thank you. Thank you. I I I did too. But that's what I was actually you know hoping to achieve in that is like how do we listen? And in fact, the tagline was if you remember, start listening.

[37:55] Hal Luftig: Yes, it was, it was, and I remember you had a racially diverse cast too.

[38:00] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Yeah, you know, Lauren Ridloff, who played the deaf uh student, well, she wasn't a student, she was a former student, um, who was just a sign language teacher, has now gone on to be a big star. She has you know a film and she's you know on television a lot, so wow, wow, how that's fabulous.

[38:20] Hal Luftig: Because this is called Broadway Biz, I wanted to ask you, how do you specifically marry you know the financial side of what you do with the artistic side? How how do you get the the artists what they feel they need and yet still you know deal with the the financial things that you must like budget?

[38:45] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: You know, we one of the things too is is just like you, I got into this because I I love theater and I love art. But I also knew that because I loved it, I had a responsibility to make sure it survived. It continued, and that meant budgets, and I really had to work very hard with budgets, and not only how we look at alternative streams, how we also work and cultivate donors, and because I'm a for-profit and a not for profit, how I also work with the philanthropic community. And so part of that is looking at what comprises a season. And Broadway is a big chunk of the financial revenue of a season, but also what our donors do, and then philanthropic organizations like the Wallace Fund gave us money so we could look at how to sustain audiences.

The Mellon Fund gave us monies to how we make sure we project all voices that all people are heard. When I'm working with an artist on an individual project, for instance, Lemon Anderson, who won his Tony in uh Death Poetry Jam, and his play, County of Kings was at the public. Well, he's with us in a three-year residency of looking at creating and writing new work. I always say to an artist when they come to us, what do you want? What do I want? And what do we want together? And then we figure out that part that we want together, and I figure out financially how to fund that part that we want together. But I need to know everybody's dreams, what they all dream, and they need to know what our mission and goals and values are to put that together.

[40:27] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: We actually have a campaign underway called Restart Stages because we don't have the Broadway revenue component. We've really been, our donors have been exceedingly generous to us. And so we have been raising funds. In fact, Hal, when you come back again during the pandemic, we raised money to redo the dressing rooms.

[40:48] Hal Luftig: I am so excited.

[40:49] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: They are so beautiful. We did new tiling and new facility, you know, do structural, and people were really thrilled. They were thrilled, and and we have donors' names on them, and it just they look beautiful. So they're waiting for you to come back.

[41:04] Hal Luftig: That you can do that in this time where you know people are just shrinking of their spending because you know the the funding is just not there, you know. Everyone is sort of losing a little something here, and yet you have, you know, uh, through your sheer, you know, magnitude of your personality, um, have made this happen for that space.

[41:30] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I that that is incredible. And I and again, I have incredible people who work for me, I must say that. To my listeners, this is why I am in awe of this woman. What are the considerations you just talked about, you know, marrying the uh financial with the artistic? Does that ever impact your decisions when you're curating a season?

[41:51] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: It helps to shape us, help to shape a season. So if we're looking at our Broadway season, I know we're going to have some big, lush, beautiful shows like yours, and we're gonna have some smaller, more intimate shows like what the Constitution means to me. So we we curate sort of size and scope in that so that when my subscribers come, I don't say it's gonna cost you a million dollars to see this season. So that's part of it, but also we like to look at things that are wonderful and joyous, but also things that are challenging and things that make us ask questions of ourselves. So that helps to shape and scope this the season and what the season's going to look like. We look a lot at families and what kind of work would be great for families, and then we look at that next generation and what what are they looking at?

And you know how one of the things I really wanted on my season? I saw the all-Yiddish version of Fiddler, and it was the most beautiful. I cried, I cried, I went with Ed Sandler. Ed Sandler and I went, and it was beautiful, and I went, people need to see this on the road, because to understand when you talk about listening and language and also what you bring to it, that's it to me, that's the glory of theater. You also bring yourself to an experience. I love that work. I love that work. So we look at this the span, the span of things, the span of things. Nothing would make me happier if someday we could play the gamut and you and I can make another. I don't know what we wear, but um I don't know what the throwdown challenge would be for that.

But thank you for saying that. And um I I really appreciate that. And I think you're right, especially in these times, you know, how do we listen to people who speak differently, who look differently, you know, and hear their their story? How do we listen to their narrative?

[43:57] Hal Luftig: Colleen, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us today. You know, I I feel like I could spend days with you and never absorb everything that you have to offer. So uh we may have to have you back. Thank you for taking the time uh with me today. But before I let you go, I have what I call the rapid fire questions, and there are three of them. And all I ask is that you don't overthink. I ask them, you answer the first thing that comes into your mind. Um, okay, because that's what makes it fun. So here's number one. What is your favorite musical?

[44:36] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Of all times, Company. I I love it. I have always loved it. I love the words, I love the performers, I love Company.

[44:48] Hal Luftig: Did you see the original or what was your first exposure to Company?

[44:52] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: You know what? This is very funny. My very first exposure to Company, I was in graduate school, and the university needed a choreographer to choreograph Company. That was the first time I'd ever seen it.

[45:06] Hal Luftig: Well, and so you were the choreographer?

[45:08] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: I was the choreographer.

[45:09] Hal Luftig: Oh my god, that's no small task.

[45:12] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: How did you how did you like oh my gosh? Oh my gosh, I have to like think back. I do remember um you could drive a person crazy, and I just remember that choreography. I just can't know. I I d I'll have to think a long time, long and hard. It's been a while, Al. But yeah.

[45:29] Hal Luftig: Boy, they were worried about Gypsy. I remember when I went to see Company, I was maybe 13, I guess. And that number, if you know, it was danced by Donna McCackney. And it was very, you know, she's a great dancer, and it was very suggestive. Let me tell you, there was more to worry in that that number than seeing Gypsy. That dance was very explicit.

[45:54] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Okay, here's number here's number two. What is the wackiest moment you've ever experienced in the theater?

[46:02] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Okay, this may not be the wackiest moment, but I was at the Kennedy Center. I was watching Whistle Down the Wind, and I was there with a friend. There was a man sitting next to me. The curtain goes down for intermission. This man turns to me and he says, I have no idea what this is about. And I looked at him and he said, I have none. He said, So you have to be called, you have to tell me. He says, I'm a businessman, I travel a lot wherever I go, I buy a ticket to a show. So instead of going to the bathroom, I sat there and explained the entire first act to this man.

[46:34] Hal Luftig: And he said, Really?

[46:36] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: That's like but like he didn't sleep during the E just like he was completely at the loss.

[46:43] Hal Luftig: Oh, that is great. All right, here's the last one. Um, and this is a little more serious. What is something you are hoping to see change about the theater in your lifetime?

[46:54] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: You know, Hal, I I think with all of the work that we are doing at the league in partnership with Black Theater Coalition, Black Theater United and Broadway Advocacy Coalition, I am hoping in my lifetime that we see more diversity in terms of GMs, producers, presenters, executive directors. I I really in my lifetime, and I I remember it's uh another story, Margol Lyon, who's no longer with us, and was so very dear. When we started, she's so amazing. We started the diversity committee. I remember her saying, Hey, Colleen, I think this is gonna be really hard. I don't even know what we're gonna do. And I wish that she was alive today, Al, to see what we've done. I just I I think about her every single time.

[47:47] Hal Luftig: Me too. Me too. You know, she was such a great mentor to me, and and she gave me such great pieces of advice, both professionally and personally, and I I do. I miss her every day. I think about her all the time.

[48:03] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Yeah, yeah. See, you're not gonna stop until you get me to cry on this program. I see, I see what you're doing, Ms. Roggensack. It ain't gonna work.

[48:16] Hal Luftig: Well, once again, Colleen, thank you so much. I I adore you, and I'm so grateful you joined us today, as I'm sure my listeners are. So, you know, be well, be safe, stay healthy, um, because this will pass and we will be back.

[48:33] Colleen Jennings-Roggensack: Absolutely, Hal. Absolutely.

[48:39] Hal Luftig: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Broadway Biz. If you have any questions about today's episode or the business of Broadway in general, let me know on Instagram at Broadway BizPodcast or via email at Broadway Biz at Halluftig.com. Be sure to follow me at Broadway Biz Podcast for updates on everything Broadway Biz, the Business of Broadway. Broadway Biz is part of the Broadway Podcast Network. Huge thanks to Dori Berenstein, Alan Seals, and Brittany Bigelow. This has been produced by Dylan Marie Parent and Kevin Connor and edited by Derek Gunther. Our fabulous theme music is by Nell Benjamin and Lawrence O'Keefe. To learn more about Broadway Biz, visit bpn.fm slash BroadwayBiz.