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[0:00] Tom Kitt: My name is Tom Kitt and you're listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[0:15] William J Connolly: Hello and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts. He's the Pulitzer, Tony, Emmy and Grammy award-winning musical genius, supervisor, arranger and orchestrator that's penned some of the most extraordinary pieces of music to ever grace the stage. From If/Then to Jagged Little Pill to Bring It On, Head Over Heels, Grease Live, Almost Famous, Flying Over Sunset, High Fidelity, American Idiot, the Pitch Perfect franchise and most recently Hell's Kitchen, he's quite literally the gold standard. And now he's bringing the debut of his musical Next to Normal to London audiences for the first time as the show finally plays in the West End after a historic and groundbreaking run on Broadway and at the Donmar Warehouse.

So here, in an exclusive conversation direct from his home in the United States, we dive into the lengthy and detailed journey of penning Next to Normal and what it now means to have the stage phenomenon live here in London, including the creative process on how he wrote some of the show's biggest musical moments. Plus, we talk writing for Idina Menzel in If/Then, why the powers of storytelling on stage are a mighty responsibility to carry and what it was like moving from being a fan of music superstar Alicia Keys to being a collaborator and colleague on the Tony-winning mega hit of the Broadway season, Hell's Kitchen. So let's dive into the musical mind of Tom Kitt here now on this, the next episode of Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[1:50] William J Connolly: To ensure the safety of all involved in this episode of Eleven, Tom and I connected for this conversation digitally, so please forgive any brief moments while we wait for the internet to catch up. Enjoy. Please help me welcome to this, the next episode of Eleven. He's the Pulitzer, Tony, Emmy and Grammy award-winning music genius behind the biggest stage hit of the London season and one of the most extraordinary shows of all time. I am very, very honoured to say a huge hello to Mr. Tom Kitt. Hi Tom, how are you?

[2:20] Tom Kitt: I'm good, thank you. London audiences are obsessed, not just with the show, but of course with the genius of your mind. Talk to me about how it feels for you right now, knowing that London is quite literally throwing its arms around you and your work. What does it feel like?

[2:35] Tom Kitt: Well, first I'll say I haven't heard it put exactly that way, so I'm humbled and quite astounded if that is the case. I adore working in London. These last two summers I've been there, last August with the Donmar production and now transferring it to the West End this past June, have been some of the most extraordinary and fulfilling of my whole career. I aspire to be in London quite a bit. I'd like to do much more. So if this first production that I've been involved with has really resonated, that's quite thrilling for me and means a great deal. I can't say enough about what this whole experience has been for me, for my family who's been with me to see it. And my kids were too young. In fact, my third child, Charlie, wasn't even born yet when Next to Normal opened on Broadway.

My second child, Julia, was born a week after we opened. So getting a chance also to share it with them now, see how it affects them. And for me, 15 years after we opened on Broadway, when I was at that first preview, I bawled. I was uncontrollably sobbing to the point where I thought that people were judging me, looking at the writer crying at his own show. But Next to Normal has always lived in this place where I'm able to be outside of it and just experience the story, these characters that I've had the honor of creating with Brian Yorkey, Brian's brilliance, his poetry, his investigation of the human experience. I just feel all of that. And it was overwhelming, that first preview, when I was back in the UK.

I always feel like it's good, obviously, of course, to look at what the critics say. Sometimes it's important, sometimes it's not. They, of course, love this production. But I always think it's interesting in London to see how many times people say, oh, have you seen Insert Show here? And it's very much the case with Next to Normal. It's like, oh, by the way, have you seen Next to Normal? And you're like, well, I've actually seen it three times. Thank you for asking. But it's like, yeah, of course. And I always feel like that, for me, as a theater lover and someone that works in the industry, is a good measure of how much people are connecting to a show. And this is very much the experience with Next to Normal.

Knowing that that's true of an audience today, but as you referenced there, that 15 years of people loving the show and actually dreaming, wanting, I'm sure millions of people have asked you, please bring it to London. And you've made us wait. You made us wait a long time. But thank goodness you did. Does that play in the back of your mind, knowing that this show means a lot to not just you and to your family and to your team, but to other people as well? A lot of people have kinship to your work.

[5:02] Tom Kitt: Well, that is the greatest honor as a writer. When your work transcends and people feel a kind of ownership and connection with it, they feel that the piece speaks to them in a certain way. And that was what I always hoped and aspired to with Next to Normal. When Brad and I were first creating it and we were questioning whether a show like this, a musical that explores this subject matter, would be able to find an audience and be produced, I always felt like the show's selling point, the thing that would make people want to come see it, was to experience all of those emotions. So that's kind of what needs to happen for the show to resonate. People want to sit and feel and emote in a group. And now, I think in this day and age, when we can do so much isolated with phones and other screens that we spend a lot of time on, to actually sit in a theater in real time, feel emotions, and see how people around you are affected, I think there's something really special about that.

So if that is indeed the case, and audiences are feeling that in this production, and certainly that is a testament to the brilliance of Michael Longhurst and his team, and these extraordinary actors and designers that have all brought this to the West End, and the musicians, I could go on and on. But you worry, certainly, that something might feel, I don't know, dated, or especially coming to this incredible theater community in the UK. I wanted it to be a special experience, but of course there's nervousness that, what if it doesn't go over the way you hope? And the fact that it's been embraced is, again, one of the just most extraordinary things that's happened to me.

[6:50] William J Connolly: Was there a particular reason why you felt now was the right time for the UK to have its moment, and for you to sort of give your baby to us? And then perhaps the other part of that question is, why didn't that happen earlier? Was there a particular reason why you wanted to keep waiting until the time felt right?

[7:02] Tom Kitt: There were discussions some years ago, and so some of it is just logistical and finding the right timing, the right team that wants to do it. And I think, especially after the pandemic, I was interested to see what Next to Normal's place would be in the world, in terms of people that want to sit and investigate mental health and how we deal with grief and loss. There's been so much sadness, so much loss these past years. And so I think that my worries of, and maybe the worries of anyone who was collaborating with me about what the timing would be, suddenly felt like this is something that needs to happen. And it's an experience that I desperately wanted because I hadn't had that experience mounting something in the UK and getting the chance to live there and experience the magic of theatre.

And it was everything and more. So I think it's just everything lined up. Michael came to Brian and I and pitched his vision, and I'm such a fan. So the Donmar seemed like the perfect space for it, and it was. At that point, obviously, you're not talking West End, you're just talking, we want to make this production for the Donmar. The extraordinary people at the Donmar that were so passionate about it and were going to really help realise a vision that felt right for Next to Normal. So sometimes the universe just speaks to you. And I wanted it to happen certainly earlier, but I can't say enough about what it's been. And it just seems like this timing was perfect.

[8:50] William J Connolly: It's interesting you mention the pandemic, because I do feel like we all collectively, some people very personally, have a different relationship with mental health, but in particular grief post-pandemic. So therefore, it's interesting, actually, that it feels like this show may connect almost totally differently to people because of a relationship or an experience that they've had during or post the pandemic. So do you think that this show does have a different place in terms of the way in which it connects with people, say, than it did 15 years ago?

[9:17] Tom Kitt: I think that it's about conversations that are happening, and it feels like because of certainly social media, there's more, I think people are revealing more about their state of mind and the way they're feeling about things. So it certainly feels like we now in society are, if you choose to, you can be in the middle of many different feelings that are existing in the world. And because, again, of what we've been experiencing these last years, I just feel like the conversations feel like they're in the world in a way that when Brian and I first started writing this piece, it didn't feel as common to hear. But when we started it, our very first 10-minute musical presentation in 1998, we had people in our BMI Musical Theatre Workshop come up to us and tell us, this really is speaking to me.

I know you're just at the beginning stages, but I have a friend, I have a relative, I've been through something. So even then, we got a sense that it was resonating on a very personal level. But I think as these conversations have become more common, and you see them more in the world, there's more openness, perhaps, to come and see a show like Next to Normal and to discuss it and investigate what it's saying about your life.

[10:40] William J Connolly: I was doing a deep dive into one of those very helpful articles that puts together the reviews, you know, when they put everything together. And I just remember one of the reviews said like, it's having a radical conversation about mental health. And to read that, the conversation has changed so much recently. But actually, did it feel quite radical at the time? Were you know, was there as much as there were other people as you said, yeah, absolutely, this is speaking to me? Do you get the opposite of that when you try and push something that we perhaps haven't discussed on stage in quite so much depth? Did people say to you, this might not be a good idea?

[11:09] Tom Kitt: As far as I can remember, it's really been supportive and loving and people feel an ambition and a passion to tell the story. So again, because it's a musical, and I think that for Brian and I, especially being in BMI, we constantly heard from our great teachers that we want to try and break the mold, we want to try and do something that maybe hasn't been attempted in musical theatre, or tell a story that only you can tell. And that at least is the aspiration, to just look at these classic shows that move the needle in some way. And I always try to say, for me, I'm never at the centre of that. I never am patting myself on the back and saying, I did this, or I know I can do this. I just want to always try.

And at the very beginning, as Brian and I were making that attempt, there were wonderful people who really rallied around us and said, keep going. You're doing something that feels exciting and new and very personal, and is a story that I haven't necessarily seen in the musical theatre. So just keep finding the courage to tell that story. And if Next to Normal, in turn, has said to other writers who may be questioning a subject matter that they want to musicalise and wondering whether it's the right thing to do, even as they're feeling it so much in their bones, I would say, go for it. And certainly, we can all say it's musical theatre.

[12:37] Tom Kitt: Welcome to the show. I'm excited to be here.

[12:47] Tom Kitt: It's been a journey, and I can't wait to share it with you.

[12:54] Tom Kitt: The West End triumph of "Next To Normal" was a pivotal moment for me.

[13:06] Tom Kitt: I remember the first time we performed "I Miss The Mountains." The audience's reaction was overwhelming.

[13:13] Tom Kitt: It’s such an honor to rediscover the journey of Diana for a new audience.

[13:23] Tom Kitt: Working with Caissie Levy has been a dream come true.

[13:35] Tom Kitt: Writing for Idina Menzel in "If/Then" was another highlight of my career.

[13:45] Tom Kitt: There's a strong desire to bring that show to London.

[13:55] Tom Kitt: Transitioning from being a fan to a colleague with Alicia Keys in "Hells Kitchen" has been surreal.

[14:05] Tom Kitt: Each project brings its own challenges and rewards.

[14:15] Tom Kitt: I love collaborating with such talented artists.

[14:35] Tom Kitt: The creative process is always evolving, and I embrace that.

[14:45] Tom Kitt: Music has the power to connect people in profound ways.

[14:55] Tom Kitt: I’m grateful for the opportunities I've had to tell stories through song.

[15:05] Tom Kitt: It's about capturing emotions and experiences that resonate with audiences.

[15:15] Tom Kitt: I look forward to what the future holds for my work.

[15:25] Tom Kitt: Each new project is a chance to explore different themes and ideas.

[15:35] Tom Kitt: I believe in the importance of storytelling in theatre.

[15:45] Tom Kitt: It’s a privilege to be part of this vibrant community.

[15:55] Tom Kitt: I hope to continue making music that inspires and moves people.

[16:05] Tom Kitt: Thank you for having me on the show today.

[16:15] Tom Kitt: Let’s dive deeper into my experiences and the stories behind the music.

[16:25] Tom Kitt: I’m excited to share more about my journey with you.

[16:35] Tom Kitt: The process of creating music is always a thrilling adventure.

[16:45] Tom Kitt: I find inspiration in everyday life and the people around me.

[16:55] Tom Kitt: It’s about finding those moments that spark creativity.

[17:05] Tom Kitt: I love collaborating with other artists who share that passion.

[17:15] Tom Kitt: Each collaboration brings something unique to the table.

[17:25] Tom Kitt: I’m always looking for ways to push boundaries in my work.

[17:35] Tom Kitt: The intersection of music and storytelling is where I thrive.

[17:45] Tom Kitt: I believe that every song has a story to tell.

[17:55] Tom Kitt: Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts with you.

[18:05] Tom Kitt: I’m looking forward to discussing more about my projects.

[18:15] Tom Kitt: Let’s explore the themes and messages behind my music.

[18:25] Tom Kitt: I think it’s important to connect with audiences on a deeper level.

[18:35] Tom Kitt: Music can be a powerful vehicle for change and understanding.

[18:45] Tom Kitt: I’m passionate about using my platform to make a difference.

[18:55] Tom Kitt: Thank you for being part of this conversation.

[19:05] Tom Kitt: I appreciate the opportunity to share my journey with you.

[19:15] Tom Kitt: Let’s continue to celebrate the art of storytelling through music.

[19:25] Tom Kitt: I’m excited to see where this journey takes us next.

[19:35] Tom Kitt: Thank you for your support and for listening.

[19:45] Tom Kitt: I hope to inspire others through my work.

[19:55] Tom Kitt: Let’s keep the conversation going.

[20:05] Tom Kitt: I’m grateful for the chance to connect with you all.

[20:15] Tom Kitt: Music is a universal language that brings us together.

[20:25] Tom Kitt: I look forward to sharing more of my experiences.

[20:35] Tom Kitt: Thank you for being part of this journey with me.

[20:45] Tom Kitt: Let’s dive into the stories behind the songs.

[20:55] Tom Kitt: I’m excited to share my insights and inspirations.

[21:05] Tom Kitt: Thank you for tuning in and for your interest in my work.

[21:15] Tom Kitt: I hope to continue making music that resonates with you.

[21:25] Tom Kitt: Let’s explore the creative process together.

[21:35] Tom Kitt: I appreciate your support and enthusiasm.

[21:45] Tom Kitt: Thank you for being part of this conversation.

[21:55] Tom Kitt: I’m looking forward to what’s next on this journey.

[22:05] Tom Kitt: Let’s keep the dialogue open and continue to share our stories.

[22:15] Tom Kitt: I’m grateful for the opportunity to connect with you.

[22:25] Tom Kitt: Thank you for listening and for your interest in my work.

[22:35] Tom Kitt: I hope to inspire others through my music.

[22:45] Tom Kitt: Let’s celebrate the power of storytelling together.

[22:55] Tom Kitt: Thank you for being part of this journey.

[23:05] Tom Kitt: I’m excited to share more about my experiences.

[23:15] Tom Kitt: Let’s dive deeper into the themes of my work.

[23:25] Tom Kitt: I appreciate your support and enthusiasm.

[23:35] Tom Kitt: Thank you for tuning in and for your interest in my journey.

[23:45] Tom Kitt: I look forward to sharing more with you.

[23:55] Tom Kitt: Let’s continue to explore the art of storytelling through music.

[24:05] Tom Kitt: Thank you for being part of this conversation.

[24:15] Tom Kitt: I’m grateful for the chance to connect with you all.

[24:25] Tom Kitt: Let’s keep the dialogue going and celebrate the power of music.

[24:35] Tom Kitt: Thank you for listening and for your support.

[24:45] Tom Kitt: I hope to inspire others through my work.

[24:55] Tom Kitt: Let’s continue this journey together.

[25:14] Tom Kitt: Welcome to the show. I'm excited to be here.

[25:38] Tom Kitt: It's been quite a journey, and I can't wait to share some stories.

[25:58] Tom Kitt: Next To Normal was a pivotal moment for me, both personally and professionally.

[26:18] Tom Kitt: The response from audiences has been overwhelming, and it's a testament to the power of storytelling.

[26:38] Tom Kitt: I Miss The Mountains is one of those songs that resonates deeply with people.

[26:58] Tom Kitt: Writing for Diana has been an incredible experience, especially with Caissie Levy at the helm.

[27:18] Tom Kitt: The way she brings the character to life is truly inspiring.

[27:38] Tom Kitt: If/Then was another significant project for me, especially working with Idina Menzel.

[28:08] Tom Kitt: There's a strong desire to bring that show to London, and I think it would resonate well there.

[28:28] Tom Kitt: Collaborating with Alicia Keys on Hells Kitchen was a dream come true.

[28:48] Tom Kitt: Moving from being a fan to a colleague was surreal, but it felt right.

[29:08] Tom Kitt: The energy in the room when we were creating was electric.

[29:28] Tom Kitt: Each project has its own unique challenges, but that's what makes it exciting.

[29:38] Tom Kitt: I love the collaborative nature of theatre; it's what keeps me motivated.

[29:58] Tom Kitt: The stories we tell can change lives, and that's a powerful thing.

[30:08] Tom Kitt: I feel fortunate to be part of this community.

[30:28] Tom Kitt: It's all about connection, and I strive to create that in my work.

[30:38] Tom Kitt: The journey of a musical is never straightforward, but that's part of the magic.

[30:48] Tom Kitt: I look forward to what the future holds for me and my projects.

[30:58] Tom Kitt: Thank you for having me on the show today.

[31:08] Tom Kitt: I hope to inspire others through my music and stories.

[31:28] Tom Kitt: It's been a pleasure sharing my experiences with you.

[31:38] Tom Kitt: Let's continue to celebrate the arts and the impact they have on our lives.

[31:48] Tom Kitt: I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these important topics.

[31:58] Tom Kitt: Here's to many more stories and songs to come.

[32:18] Tom Kitt: Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the show.

[32:28] Tom Kitt: Let's keep the conversation going about the power of theatre.

[32:38] Tom Kitt: It's a journey worth taking, and I'm glad to be part of it.

[32:48] Tom Kitt: I look forward to what lies ahead in this incredible world of theatre.

[32:58] Tom Kitt: Thank you once again for having me.

[33:08] Tom Kitt: It's been a joy to share my passion with you all.

[33:18] Tom Kitt: Let's continue to uplift each other in this artistic community.

[33:28] Tom Kitt: The future is bright for theatre, and I'm excited to be part of it.

[33:38] Tom Kitt: Thank you for your support and for being part of this journey.

[33:48] Tom Kitt: I can't wait to see what we create together next.

[33:58] Tom Kitt: Let's keep dreaming and making art that matters.

[34:08] Tom Kitt: Thank you for tuning in today.

[34:18] Tom Kitt: It's been a pleasure to connect with you all.

[34:28] Tom Kitt: Let's celebrate the magic of theatre together.

[34:38] Tom Kitt: I appreciate your time and interest in my work.

[34:48] Tom Kitt: Here's to the stories yet to be told.

[34:58] Tom Kitt: Thank you for being part of this incredible journey.

[35:08] Tom Kitt: Let's continue to inspire each other through our art.

[35:18] Tom Kitt: I'm grateful for the opportunity to share my experiences.

[35:28] Tom Kitt: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you at the theatre.

[35:38] Tom Kitt: Let's keep the spirit of creativity alive.

[35:48] Tom Kitt: Thank you for having me on the show.

[35:58] Tom Kitt: It's been a wonderful experience.

[36:08] Tom Kitt: I look forward to what the future holds for us all.

[36:18] Tom Kitt: Let's keep pushing the boundaries of storytelling.

[36:28] Tom Kitt: Thank you for your support and encouragement.

[36:38] Tom Kitt: It's been a joy to share my journey with you.

[36:48] Tom Kitt: Let's continue to create art that resonates.

[36:58] Tom Kitt: Thank you for being part of this conversation.

[37:08] Tom Kitt: I'm excited for what's next in our artistic endeavors.

[37:18] Tom Kitt: Thank you for listening, and let's keep the dialogue going.

[37:28] Tom Kitt: I appreciate your interest in my work and the stories we share.

[37:38] Tom Kitt: Let's celebrate the power of theatre together.

[37:48] Tom Kitt: Thank you once again for having me.