This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Mikayla Petrilla: Hey, everyone and welcome to this episode of Tea Time with Mikayla. This is Tea Time. I'm Mikayla and you're listening on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[0:13] Mikayla Petrilla: And by Peter Van Dam, partner at the TRC Company, formerly Tara Rubin Casting. Peter is one of those people who genuinely raises my hopes for this industry. He is a champion behind the table, somebody who is deeply rooting for artists with credits ranging from Six and Phantom of the Opera to Beauty and the Beast and the Dirty Dancing Tour and upcoming something you may have heard of, the Spring Awakening revival. Hey, Peter. I'm so glad you're here.

[0:44] Peter Van Dam: Excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

[0:46] Mikayla Petrilla: Thanks for coming on and congratulations on this next chapter. Partner at TRC.

[0:50] Peter Van Dam: Thank you so much. It's very exciting.

[0:53] Mikayla Petrilla: This is great. How has that transition been like for you?

[0:57] Peter Van Dam: It's been wonderful, challenging in a good way. You know, post-pandemic, Tara came to us and essentially said that, you know, she wants to stay on and be a casting director, but the running the business aspect is something that she wants to pass the torch on. And we had a lot of conversations and in January 2025 is when we, the four of us, Claire Burke, Xavier Rubiano, Kevin Metzger-Timpson and I took over and started the next chapter of Tara Rubin Casting, which we've called the TRC Company. And it's been great. It's definitely a lot more work on top of my casting work, just in terms of the running a business aspect of like doing our contracts and payroll and insurance and all the bigger picture things. But it's been an amazing opportunity and I'm very grateful to be following in Tara's footsteps.

[1:52] Mikayla Petrilla: That's incredible. And I love that it's the four of you too, because you can work together on so many things, I would guess. What does your day look like? What has it looked like today?

[2:01] Peter Van Dam: What does it look like today? Let's see. Well, we have a staff meeting at 8:30 with our whole office. We're up early. Gone are the days where we are in person and, you know, ordering breakfast, but we do it via Zoom because oftentimes, you know, any number of us might have an audition that starts at 10 AM. Right. So we go through all the projects, the new projects, readings, things in development, long running shows. So all of us have a good sense of what's happening in the office that week. And it's a time to touch base and, you know, hear how various sessions were over the past week. So that was at 8:30. And then let's see, I'm starting work on the survival of Spring Awakening, which I'm very excited about.

[2:46] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay. With my colleague Xavier.

[2:49] Peter Van Dam: Okay. Studio Sea View in the fall. Okay. So I need to stay. I'm like kissing her. I mean, he was there yesterday.

[3:00] Mikayla Petrilla: Oh, you're scandalous. Did you tell him about coming on this? Do you watch his TikTok lives?

[3:08] Peter Van Dam: I didn't know that. Seder? Yeah. No, I don't. I discovered this on a whim. I went on TikTok and I'm not usually really on it, but I try to be. And it just popped up him on TikTok live, like eating ice cream. And he's like, so like, what do you want to know about the revival? And I would. Yeah, he's like here, like unknown user 5 4 2 3. He said it's 18 plus. Like I. Okay. So after the staff meeting, I'm starting work on a revival of the Spring Awakening going to Studio Sea View this fall. So my colleague Xavier and I were reviewing all the submissions for the adult characters because we're creating a list to send to Donia, our director and the rest of the team. So that was task one. And then we are nearly there with our cast of the Dirty Dancing Tour.

I'm so excited for that. Yes, I've been working on it like now since January. It's been quite an extended casting process. So I had a chat with our director Lonnie Price about the two remaining roles. We start rehearsals June 30th. I had a chat with the six producers and general managers about the next leg of the tour next year and decisions casting wise there. Now I'm here and now I'm here. We're doing this interview.

[4:22] Mikayla Petrilla: I love that. Okay, that's a stacked day. I already have like 10 questions. Okay, one, you've worked with Lonnie Price quite a bit, right? I was doing my homework. So how exciting is that to work with him on this and then Beaches?

[4:34] Peter Van Dam: Yes, Beaches. Yeah, I met him in a rehearsal before they started previews and he is so lovely. He's one of the kindest human beings and has been such a mentor of mine. I actually met him in 2011, 2010 or 2011, which was a year where I was freelancing and trying on a lot of different hats to see what I wanted to do. And I was working with a producer of Company, the Philharmonic concert starring Neil Patrick Harris. So I was sort of on board as her assistant and I met Lonnie through her. Her name is Ellen Crass and I just started a wonderful friendship and professional relationship with him and he was always my reference on any time I was applying for jobs. So, you know, for full circle in 2026 to be working with him on many projects, Beaches for one, Dirty Dancing is just, it's amazing.

[5:33] Mikayla Petrilla: That's incredible. I love that. Are there any positives or negatives about working and collaborating with people that you have a personal relationship with or is it always that one hand feeds the other?

[5:42] Peter Van Dam: That is a great question because, you know, a number of other directors and producers I work with are also close friends. I think there is a little bit of an unspoken pressure in a way that, you know, because we're so close personally that I really want to make sure that I'm taking care of their shows and that I am putting my best foot forward there. So, that usually happens when I'm working with someone for the first time that I've been friends with and there's like, there's a little bit of a test of like, okay, you're establishing tone and dynamic.

[6:18] Mikayla Petrilla: Yes. Are we gonna work together professionally well as also?

[6:22] Peter Van Dam: So, right. That makes sense.

[6:24] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah. Circling back to Spring Awakening, we don't have to talk about specifically that but let's say in a process where they have the open call for the younger roles, they have just announced this days ago. You have already been working on casting for this for a hot second it seems. So, for a new show, do you present options to production team or do they ask you to reach out? Like, let's we're starting a project from the beginning. What does that look like?

[6:43] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. So, oftentimes we will have done a number of readings. So, it might start with a table read where we assemble a group of actors for a day just to hear the script out loud which is, you know, that tends to be a little bit more casual. Like a twenty-nine hour?

[7:07] Mikayla Petrilla: A twenty-nine hour?

[7:11] Peter Van Dam: We really don't hold auditions. So, that would be assembling a cast in consultation with the producer, the director, music director, usually not choreographer at that stage. There. Reading the script, having a listen to the music if it's a musical, and curating lists to send to everyone based on hopefully several exciting conversations about what everyone is looking for and what the expectations are. Usually, for a reading like that, you don't wanna overwhelm them with fifty names for each role. So, it actually is quite a, you know, an important process to present maybe fifteen to twenty actors per role. We'll check availability to see if they're free for the dates before sending on a list to everyone and then from there, it's a discussion with everyone and we sort of maybe come up with our top three choices and then we start making offers and then sometimes someone's out of town or sometimes they pass or so it ends up being quite a game of Tetris to assemble the puzzle pieces.

[8:19] Mikayla Petrilla: That makes sense.

[8:22] Peter Van Dam: And in the reading. And then from there, hopefully, there are some folks in the company that everyone's really excited about that will continue to the next phase which might be a, you know, a tier workshop and that's when the equity required calls start happening where an open call might happen. So, really casting the net wide.

[8:43] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay. So, the beginning of that process is quite overwhelming for us. Can I ask you something that I was gonna ask you later? How do you get through sitting in it through an entire day of like EPAs? Are you well? How do you take care of yourself because that must be so overwhelming.

[8:58] Peter Van Dam: It is overwhelming. It is. Well, first of all, it is my responsibility to be as present, as welcoming, as open as I can. You know, that's my job but you know, in a day where you're seeing 100, 200 plus people, it does require good rest the night before. A great deal of focus. I really try to as best I can for those couple minutes that someone is in front of me. I know that their day has revolved around those couple of minutes. Right. You know?

[9:36] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah.

[9:36] Peter Van Dam: And that I may have been sitting here all day and my, you know, my emails are piling up on my phone.

[9:45] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah.

[9:45] Peter Van Dam: All that but I, you know, I think a huge part of our job is to be as receptive and welcoming to the person in front of us. So, it does require a skill and patience.

[10:00] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah. I mean, that is so much easier said than done especially in this digital era where as you said like there are emails coming through. Everybody expects some sort of not instant gratification but a quick turnaround on a work even if it's not directly expected. There's an undertone of oh like they'll see this text or this email. So, then how exactly like I would just be stewing sitting there for however many hours but then like what a gift to see new talent. Do you feel like and this is a lot of my questions are relative. So, you can take it however you wanna take it.

[10:29] Peter Van Dam: Of course.

[10:33] Mikayla Petrilla: Do you ever see someone in EPAs and be like, hey, I'm gonna call them in for this or like what is a case study on that?

[10:39] Peter Van Dam: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Because by that point, you're already so far ahead in whatever casting process you've had.

[10:46] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah.

[10:46] Peter Van Dam: That I, that's so much like a whole extra layer. Yeah, I look at the EPA, the EPAs, ECCs is a wonderful opportunity to see people in person that I might not know. So, any number of shows, I, you know, give this is a great one. So, for our equity chorus call for the Phantom of the Opera tour, we, you know, got through an entire day and it was filled with equity. You know, we do have to see equity members first.

[11:11] Mikayla Petrilla: I think I know what you're gonna say.

[11:14] Peter Van Dam: The last 5 minutes, they called a few non-equity actors and Jordan Lee Gilbert. She's my friend from community theater. So, I'm like, I'm sat for this. Who we ended up casting as Christine. Yes. Her number was not called but someone else that was called happened to not be there. So, she came in and it was Kristen Blodgett, music supervisor of Phantom since the beginning. Came in and we heard her sing. We worked a little bit on Think of Me and of course, that was the very beginning of the process but she ended up getting the role. So, I think that's a great lesson.

[11:48] Mikayla Petrilla: Yes. You know, of perseverance. I think there are a number I've heard her talk about there a number of times during the day where she's like, oh, I guess I can go. I'm never gonna get seen or whatever. So, I it.

[12:03] Peter Van Dam: Absolutely happens where we're, you know, we're seeing people at an EPA. And even if it's not for the particular show, my eyes are always, you know, peeled for where could this person fit in. So I might have a pile of people to send to Mary for Les Mis or to Kevin for Aladdin, or even just a pile of people that I think are interesting, but maybe not necessarily in the world of the show.

[12:27] Mikayla Petrilla: Right.

[12:27] Peter Van Dam: I have a little folder in my desk. And now it's like I opened it and like Ali, who just won a Tony Award is in there.

[12:33] Mikayla Petrilla: Oh my gosh.

[12:33] Peter Van Dam: From when he came to an EPA, you know, for the band's visit and I held on to him. So you keep the hard copies.

[12:39] Mikayla Petrilla: I do. I'm pretty old school like that.

[12:41] Peter Van Dam: I love that.

[12:41] Mikayla Petrilla: Me too, me too. That's so great. And I do think as far as performing or any aspect of it, like what is meant for you will find you in the way of still thinking about Jordan. Like we were doing, it must have been high school, college when we were working together. And she was thinking about, she was a few years younger than me and she was like, I love musical theater, but I love classical music. I want to pursue a career on Broadway, but I'm being called to do, like, I'm going to go to Manhattan School of Music and study classical and go into the opera world. And lo and behold, like she found the perfect role that blends both of those things together. And it's just, the stars aligned.

[13:21] Peter Van Dam: Yes.

[13:22] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah. I love that so much.

[13:24] Peter Van Dam: Very thrilled for her.

[13:25] Mikayla Petrilla: Yay. And that gives so many people hope as well between that and Emma Flynn walking in.

[13:30] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. And those are hard days, you know, I can only imagine what it's like in your shoes.

[13:35] Mikayla Petrilla: You know, I did not.

[13:36] Peter Van Dam: Well, you were in our shoes, right? You were an actor for a second and a half.

[13:41] Peter Van Dam: For a brief moment, Mikayla. So I went to a performing arts boarding school in high school for two years. It was called Walnut Hill. It's an amazing school. It's right outside of Boston. And after going to a summer program there, which was really my first taste of performing. I, as a kid, I was always enamored by theater and kind of like reading as many plays as I could going to as many pieces of theater, many, many cast albums, all of that. But I was not sort of doing like community theater, like classes or whatever until high school where I sort of like, I can do this. And it's, it's exciting. I think as my education continued, I went to NYU Tisch for a year and then actually transferred to Boston Conservatory.

[14:29] Mikayla Petrilla: Excellent track record here.

[14:31] Peter Van Dam: I would say halfway through, I sort of felt like I wanted to stay. There was something about being in the community and working with my peers that I really enjoyed and felt there was something there for me. But I sort of feel like performing was not my contribution. So I was, I was rarely excited about getting up and singing something or doing a scene, but I really liked observing others doing that. And I felt like I was often giving notes and suggesting pieces of material for people to do, maybe even looking at their resume. So that was happening during college. But at the time, I didn't really know what a casting director did. It was, this was what, 2006, maybe. There was a different sort of access to certainly no YouTube interviews with casting directors or American Theater Wing podcasts or whatever.

[15:24] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah. The only thing on YouTube was like the shoes video.

[15:26] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, YouTube didn't exist.

[15:29] Mikayla Petrilla: True. Okay. True.

[15:30] Peter Van Dam: So senior year, a number of agents, casting directors came in and did workshops and that kind of, that was a green light for me hearing what they, what their day-to-day was, what their job was. So I got an internship when I moved to New York right away at Jim Carnahan Casting. This is fall 2008. And I went on two auditions from my senior showcase. I did a senior showcase and both were through Tara Rubin Casting. I got called in by Eric Woodall to audition for the role of Skye in Mamma Mia.

[16:04] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay.

[16:05] Peter Van Dam: Mary Sugarman, my colleague, the great Mary Sugarman, to audition for Bob Crew in Jersey Boys. Last time I ever sung in public. I did those two auditions. I started this casting internship and I really kind of steered in the, I really want to look at this as a career. And I kind of never went back. So I did an internship with Carnahan and Roundabout fall 2008 and then with Tara Rubin in fall 2009.

[16:36] Mikayla Petrilla: Wow.

[16:36] Peter Van Dam: And after the second internship, I think that really solidified, okay, full steam ahead. I want to be a casting director.

[16:42] Mikayla Petrilla: Right. What a great track.

[16:43] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. And I ended up working for both companies later in my career.

[16:47] Mikayla Petrilla: Right. And I'm sure there's certainly no roadmap to that, especially in the early aughts. It was like we were figuring it out through connecting with human beings. So that is incredible.

[16:56] Peter Van Dam: Exactly. And it's interesting. I was at dinner with Tara last week and we were talking about this. I said, you know, in 2009, all I wanted to do was be your assistant. I was an intern. All I wanted to do is sort of graduate to the assistant position and just stay at your office and learn as much as I could. And in retrospect, I ended up wearing a lot of different hats. As I said earlier in the interview, I worked for a producer. I was Lonnie Price's assistant. I worked for two different talent agencies, Hardin Curtis, which is now HKCR. I was their front desk manager for a year. And then I ended up getting a job at Innovative Artists, where I was for about three years as executive assistant to the head of the talent department there, Gary Gersh.

So that was very eye opening. And I, as a result of having worked with a director, a producer, an agent, I think I now have more breadth as a casting director. So I always tell young people when coming out of college, I think there's this desire to immediately do what you feel like is meant for you. And I think any career in the arts is a marathon, not a sprint. And sometimes the marathon is the way to go because it's like the company that I desperately wanted to work at as an assistant in 2009, like so many years later, I'm now one of the partners. I didn't think that that would ever happen, but it did.

[18:24] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah, the right things find you. And that's so incredible that you got through all the different facets of the industry working in each thing before you can then bring it all back to home base. And I feel like that must give you a better level of empathy for everyone that you're working with across the board. You're like, I know what they're going through because I have done it.

[18:42] Peter Van Dam: Especially agents. I understand the pace of what, like when I send an availability check or an offer or an appointment to them, I know what then they're doing in order to feel that and get an answer for me.

[19:00] Mikayla Petrilla: Right. That is I have so many questions about that, too. I'm trying to figure out what flow I want to take it to. OK, how do you organize your entire life? Let's discuss the agent casting conversations that you have so many appointment times to fill. Do you do all of this manually? Are you working in a team that that alone, I feel like would take two business days.

[19:19] Peter Van Dam: Yes. So the organization skills must be the administrative organizational aspect of casting is huge. It's a ton to coordinate. But let's, for instance, like dive into how I would populate a week of auditions. So we're looking at, you know, as many different sources of pulling actors from. So one, of course, is the agent submission on Breakdown Express. And, you know, I'm just going to be truthful here, like oftentimes between 200 and 700 actors are submitted for a role on Breakdown. So a brain like mine, I'm very organized, but I'm also very, I think one of my biggest. Not fears, I don't want to miss that one brilliant person that I don't know. And thank God your brain works like that for everybody that is like I'm buried under this late shot submissions.

So I do go through the breakdown very carefully, and that might be selecting people that I know very well to bring in front of the director and or selecting some people that are new to me that look interesting based on their resume and that I would just set for an appointment or a self tape. So that's one avenue. And then we have the equity required calls around a similar time. So a lot of new faces are coming in front of us. And that is actually the first step before we're we are able to hold any auditions by appointment. We have to fulfill the equity requirements, which I think is a great thing.

[20:47] Mikayla Petrilla: That makes sense, because we don't necessarily know that element of things we could assume. But it's so easy to drive yourself crazy with the not knowing of how the process actually logistically works worse.

[20:58] Peter Van Dam: Yeah, I can only imagine what that's like as an actor, because like you're putting yourself out there and you feel really good about an audition and you might not hear for a month.

[21:06] Mikayla Petrilla: Or ever.

[21:06] Peter Van Dam: Or ever. Or yeah.

[21:09] Mikayla Petrilla: But how could you? You have like negative zero time in the day. We just have to, I was talking about this with Matt, just like offer it into the universe, let it live in the abyss. And if it is found, it is found.

[21:20] Peter Van Dam: Exactly. You know, and on that on that note, I, you know, I think actors often have this sort of black and white mentality about an audition. It's sort of like, did I book it? Great. If I did, if I didn't, they didn't like me, you know, and it's so not that. There are so many different, you know, because of the number of people that we're looking at, it's like there might be, you know, a pile of people to immediately call back, a pile of people that I call like possible callbacks. Like, let's see how this shakes out and who the director responds to, because I haven't been in a session with them yet. So I'm kind of getting my bearings as to how to populate this audition session with the team, and I might have three days with them.

[22:04] Mikayla Petrilla: Right.

[22:05] Peter Van Dam: So I'm sort of curating a list there. It might be what we call down the line.

[22:11] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay.

[22:11] Peter Van Dam: For a long running show, like, you know, at this present stage, someone might come in and it's like, I know who else is competing at that moment.

[22:20] Mikayla Petrilla: Right.

[22:20] Peter Van Dam: And I think, okay, I'm going to, we're going to revisit this in six months or a year.

[22:25] Mikayla Petrilla: Right.

[22:26] Peter Van Dam: Like I'll use like six as an example for that show. Like, we've cast like many people that were once down the line, many, many, some people that were once, no, there's not a science to it. It's not, you know, it's not black and white like that. So I think that that's an important thing to consider, you know.

[22:42] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah. I have 20 follow up questions about that.

[22:46] Peter Van Dam: Yes, ask away.

[22:47] Mikayla Petrilla: I'm not going to spend too much time on it, but I'm going to ask about the no to yes. And then I'm going to ask some breakdown service questions. No to yes, case study, or in general, what makes you change your mind? Do you, do you acknowledge when actors, you're watching their self tape? You're like, Ooh, like this, or you're in there in person and you're like, they're just having an off day, but the potential is there. Or there's a presence or personality trait that you're like, I want to work with this person, but this maybe isn't the material that is going to work for this particular audition. How does it go from no to yes?

[23:20] Peter Van Dam: So it could be that I, you know, it was just an actor and myself in a studio and I, in the beginning of a process, and I have in my head a sort of vision for the role based on my conversation with the team that maybe in that audition doesn't align with that person's work and their essence, all of that. But that could evolve in like three weeks. We're thinking, I want to go younger for this role because this other character is cast and in putting the puzzle pieces together, then it's like, you know, you do review notes and think, okay, I think maybe this person we do want to put forward. So that could be a scenario. Another scenario could be a creative team says no to.

[24:07] Peter Van Dam: And I might say, "Hey, listen, like, they got this appointment two days ago, and it requires an Irish dialect. And they didn't have much time to prepare. And I think that they can do better. And I really believe in them. So I'm gonna, I really strongly suggest maybe we can call them back and like, no obligation, but like, let's see." So that has happened. And that has also happened where we have cast the person.

[24:35] Mikayla Petrilla: That is so comforting to know that you're advocating for all sides of the table at all times.

[24:40] Peter Van Dam: Yeah, I think we also have to speak up when we need to relay important bits of information. And in the down the line conversation, how do you store people for down the line? You have your drawer. How does breakdown work? Can you just put a tab that says down the line?

[24:59] Peter Van Dam: I usually keep comprehensive lists for every role. So at the top of the list, it may say cast, and then it may say final callbacks. Okay. And it may say, scene by team down the line. Okay. And then I might see say scene by casting revisit. Okay. In a year, then it might say, you know, not available to audition. Got it. Then it might say not available, which could be someone is tied up with another show, they pass on the role. So this is the sort of information keeping. So I'm pretty, I'm a very organized, very, yeah, you know, you have to like, make sure those are up to date and clear, right? Because then when we're looking at replacements, it's like a really good starting point.

[25:45] Mikayla Petrilla: That makes sense. Yeah, we don't have to say this part. But do you have a no pile?

[25:49] Peter Van Dam: Oh, yes. Yes. Scene. Yes. Scene and not right for the show. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's good to know.

[25:55] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay. So Breakdown Express, I want to just talk this through so quickly, because I have so many questions. Personally, we obsess over our headshots and slate shots. Do they matter? What is the first thing that you see when you're scrolling down the list?

[26:11] Peter Van Dam: Yeah, I mean, of course, a great headshot is important. I think the most important thing is that it reflects you at your present state. It looks like you and it's an engaging photo. Other than that, like, it's not something that I really pick apart, you know, and I'm not just like, scrolling through being like, which pictures, you know, it's, it's clicking, it's looking at the photo, and then pulling up the resume and looking at the resume and saying, like, does this align with the assignment at hand? So if it's Sing Street, which is a show I cast, you know, I'm looking, I'm immediately going to special skills, and I'm looking at guitar, piano, drums, like, how many are you proficient in all of that?

Right? Yeah. So like, that's a clue. If it's six, I'm going through and I'm looking, oh, okay, you were on The Voice. You did, you know, 54 Below Sings Rihanna. So the 54 shows, we should keep those online. Yeah. Or you, you know, maybe like looking for clues. You were in Heather's. Right. Yeah. Like Contemporary Sound. Right. If it's Phantom of the Opera, I'm looking at classical training, opera credits, you know, all of that. So it's, it's really going through and saying, does this, if I don't know the actor, how do they align with the assignment at hand? Right. Right. Yes.

[27:35] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah. That makes sense. I was cackling in my head about the 54 stack because I was just doing my resume. And I'm like, does this help people or not?

[27:40] Peter Van Dam: Absolutely. Yeah. Concerts, like, yeah, dances. Yeah. Okay. That's good to know. If someone sends a great tape for one project, can that tape help them later for something else? Is that stored in your database? Do you pull that footage? What does that look like?

[27:54] Peter Van Dam: Certainly. Certainly. Yeah. I mean, a great audition, be it in person or via tape is, is always remembered. Okay. Yeah. And I think it's our responsibility to flag those artists that, you know, might not have been cast in one of our shows thus far, but like we continue to put forward because we believe in them.

[28:13] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay. I like that. I've seen the other end of Breakdown one time and they had these numbers like one, two, three, four, five. What are those?

[28:24] Peter Van Dam: Oh yeah. Are you, are you ranking and categorizing? What is that? Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah. So one might be bring in front of the director. Okay. Two might be set for an appointment just with casting. Three might be send a self-tape request because I know that they're in LA. Okay. Four might be revisit down the line. Five might be move them to another role in the show because that we don't think they're right for the role that was submitted. Fair. And six might be not right for this. Fair. Okay. And each office can decide what those numbers mean for them. Yeah. We can do whatever we want with them.

[28:56] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay. That's great. All right. Two more questions and we're going to move on from that. This is all for me. I'm kidding. How do you organize submissions? Is it in order of when they are submitted by your agent or can you... Like for instance on Breakdown?

[29:12] Peter Van Dam: Yes. Yeah. It could, we could choose to do it when it was in the order of submission. We could choose to do it alphabetical order. We could choose to do it just completely randomly. I love that. So you know, I, depending on...

[29:21] Mikayla Petrilla: Spice it up.

[29:21] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. Is it the same for when you receive self-tapes or do you watch those in order of which they're received? Because people always read into the, oh, I have to get it in early.

[29:30] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. I would generally agree with that, but I don't know. Sometimes they'll be, no. Great. Because maybe we've, we have a spreadsheet and it's in alphabetical order and we're putting in our notes and all of that. So there's no, there's really no science to that with the self-tapes.

[29:46] Mikayla Petrilla: I love that. Even if these answers are like, there is no answer. I just know the people want to know. There's a mystique to what we do, you know, like the ins and outs of how everything is done. So I'm happy to answer those questions. Thanks.

[30:02] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay. Last one for me. Media. Do you, this is up to agencies as well. Like they want either live performance footage or self-tape footage. What is something that is going to stick out to you when you're looking at someone's profile? Do you just read the resume or do you click on all the things? And this is specific to Breakdown Express?

[30:18] Peter Van Dam: This is specific to Breakdown. Yeah. I'm generally looking at the picture and resume, of course, and then the media tab can be helpful, but oftentimes, you know, online, looking at someone's presence online, it really, it's like having an official website, you know, and that doesn't have to be the fanciest thing in the world, but just a place where like, maybe there's some production photographs, headshots, a bio, a resume, and some great examples of your work on tape. That could be a self-tape. That could be a performance, a clip of a performance from college. It could be, you know, any number of things, a performance of 54 Below. You know, I often am looking at like, yeah, the media tab on Breakdown Express, but also like I'll Google your name and see your official website or YouTube or, you know.

[31:07] Mikayla Petrilla: Okay. That is social media occasionally.

[31:12] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. Good to know. Okay. I'm done with the breakdown questions. I just had to know. Going back to process, can you walk us through, and we had started to do this, process from the moment you're brought on, how do production teams decide who they will use for casting? Is it like producers already have a relationship or are you submitting to be considered for this job, this intermediary position? How does that even work?

[31:38] Peter Van Dam: You know, we're freelancers too. We're also like, you know, oftentimes it's relationships with producers, directors, members of the creative team that know and trust us. Sometimes we're asked to interview, to read the play and put forward some ideas, have a creative conversation.

[31:54] Mikayla Petrilla: I'd imagine sometimes maybe a director has not worked with me, but might see a musical, like, you know, a cast dead outlaw, and maybe they're like, oh, this is sort of a similar vibe to what we're looking to, a new show that we're looking to cast. You probably have a good knowledge of that kind of genre of actor and all that.

[32:17] Peter Van Dam: So I think that's, you know, that might be a way of getting a new project, of course.

[32:21] Mikayla Petrilla: That checks. What questions are you asking them when you get into the first production meeting, or is there a roundtable meeting?

[32:26] Peter Van Dam: Yeah, it usually depends. Like, you know, it might start with just the producer, just the director. I like to read the script and sort of do my own homework, and then I like to come to them with a series of questions. You know, what kind of age range are you thinking for this role? Could this role be open to all ethnicities? Vocally, how important is the singing here? Are we really just looking for an actor who can carry a tune? Any number of questions like that. And I might throw out casually a few people that pop into my head to sort of see the temperature of how I feel about that actor in the role. And then from there, I will go in and do a proper list. But I always like to consult with everyone about, you know, what they're thinking before I blindly send a list of ideas.

[33:17] Mikayla Petrilla: That makes sense. Casting definitely feels like one of those jobs where you're the intermediary between literally everybody. Do you feel like your job is being the glue between all of those things? I feel like you're a real estate agent in so many ways, presenting options.

[33:33] Peter Van Dam: Yeah, that's an interesting way to put it. You know, you're not wrong. It's like someone looking for the perfect apartment that is the perfect fit. I'm trying to process this, but yeah, you know, there are parameters and they're both artistically like how an actor might feel in the room and also the more specific parameters. How tall are they?

[34:00] Mikayla Petrilla: Yes.

[34:01] Peter Van Dam: And, you know, are they willing to work for this contract? All of that. So yeah, a lot of things to consider.

[34:07] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Have you ever started a search thinking that the team wanted one thing and then the process revealed that you found something completely different that they actually needed?

[34:18] Peter Van Dam: Yeah, I would say usually the people that like everyone has in their heads in the first meeting aren't the ones at the end of the day that are in the cast. It's weird. It's like it does take time to sort of go through a process and see a lot of people, talk a lot about people, clips and videos and all of that to come to the final decision.

[34:45] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah.

[34:45] Peter Van Dam: Okay. I like that. I know that you've been very innovative in bringing different options to the table for your projects, and that is very exciting.

[34:49] Mikayla Petrilla: Oh, okay. Quick self-tape question. This is probably also relative, but actors doing musical theater are trying to present musical theater level energy playing to the full house in the scale of their five-story walk-up studio apartment. How does somebody honor the size of a big musical in your little tiny screen without overacting? Is there nuance to theatrical energy and push energy on tape?

[35:22] Peter Van Dam: That's a great question. I think what I'm looking for on tape is what I would be looking for if an actor were to walk into a studio. I'm not looking for it to be calibrated in a bigger way or to have pristine acoustics. I mean, listen, sound and ring lights, those are all great tools, but we're not looking for this perfectly presented audition. I imagine there's a lot of stress that goes into that. It's not only what do I look like? How do I sound?

[35:55] Mikayla Petrilla: That iPhone camera has done me dirty.

[35:58] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. And also I'm thinking, okay, I can control what I'm putting forward, unlike walking into a studio where what comes out comes out. Maybe you're asked to do it again.

[36:40] Peter Van Dam: Well, I will say generally I find in musical theatre, depending on the show, that less is more. I think oftentimes, you know, someone is auditioning for a show, it's a big thing. It's highly emotional and passionate, as many musicals are. So you're like, I am walking to this audition, or I'm going to do this tape. And I'm like, I have to greet this moment and this role and this music. And yes, of course, that's important. But I think sometimes it's very easy to get carried away into like, putting a hat on a hat. This song is so deeply moving to me and really strikes a chord. So like, I'm really going to go for it and show you how much it moves me. Instead of like, taking a moment and, you know, calibrating in a way that like, it's like peeling an onion or like finding the beginning, middle and end.

So it's not all like this big show. And I think that that is easier said than done. Because I think when you walk into a room or you're doing something, there are nerves you want to you are literally trying to prove yourself in a way, right. And also along those lines, I think there's a lot of focus on how am I doing? How am I doing? Do they like me? Did I hit that note? Well, did I connect to this moment in the scene? Did I remember my lines like all of that? So the headspace very easily is how am I doing? Not what am I doing? Yes. Yes. What moves me about this role? What moves me about this piece of material? What is the homework that I did to bring this to life? What do I want? Like all those things, very often go out the window when someone is so laser focused on doing a great job.

And I do have to say again, easier said than done. It's just something that I observe, right? Like when we talk about like pushing, right? Yeah. I that makes a lot of I keep saying that makes a lot of sense. But it does. And that is so well said focusing on the what instead of the how. Yeah, because we're always going over and even if I'm hyper present in an audition, and I just let all of that go and I stay present with what I'm doing. It's the post audition spiral that a lot of people need to take care of themselves. But that's our journey. How do you take care of yourself? That's what I want to know. Like, how do you take care of your physical and mental health? How do you ground yourself?

I'm sure there are also some nerves involved with the amount of stress and workload you have. Let me let me say this, like, I'm anxious in an audition, too. I have a lot to prove to, you know, like, I am there. I'm usually the first one there. So setting up the tables is from like, and then I'm managing a team of between, you know, could be a couple people to 15 people that have come to a presentation, more or less, put together. Right. So the stakes are high. And I want that day to result in I want it to be a joyful room. I want it there to be humor. I want everyone to walk away feeling like, oh, we saw some really great people today and the people that we're excited about, you know, so just saying that out loud.

I think everyone's a little nervous in an audition. A director might be nervous. So a director might be. It might be the first time they're working through a scene with an actor and they're giving adjustments and the book writer and the producer are there and everyone's watching them and expecting that they have something brilliant to say, you know, like there's a lot of elements there. But in terms of how do I take care of myself, I try and get as much sleep as I can. Exercise very, very important to me. Exercise. What do you do? You know, I have I'll take Barry's boot camp classes. I have like a nice little curated workout thing on my phone. OK, when I go to the gym, I have like this is what I do for forty five minutes or whatever.

And then I do realize I'm often sitting at a computer, emailing, watching tapes or at Pearl Studios, and I'm also like often like leaning forward. Are your traps like so beat up? There's a whole lot of stuff going on here that we're working through, like massage therapy and all of that. Oh, my God. I want to. I teach Pilates and I also have a chiropractor that helps with like any subluxation in your cervical. You know, bone thing like the forward neck. Yeah. I mean, your posture looks great, so don't even worry about it. We're trying. Yeah, you feel. Yeah. What do you love to listen to, watch, consume? That kind of is a palate cleanser for you if you need like a nice, gentle reset. Yeah, that's a great question.

It's funny. I always say like if I'm in auditions from ten to six and then I have an hour to get dinner and then I'm going to a three hour play that. Oh, my God. That's a lot of watching. That's what I do. Try and like, especially with theater, I try and best I can to like am I in the headspace to absorb this brilliant production of Death of a Salesman or, you know, am I in the you know, am I going to go to this 90 minute musical and like really like be engaged? Right. But in term, you know, there's so much great television out there. Like right now, I'm watching the series Half Man by Richard Gad, who did Baby Reindeer. I really in acting, it's it's like a excellent, excellent series. So I love a good, dark sort of HBO miniseries, smart, you know, with great acting.

Usually, you know, everyone's always talking about like the traitors, the real house. I usually like like I need to watch some things like scripted so I get like really like, you know, do my job as I'm watching the series. But then, of course, you know, there are real housewives on Broadway. So maybe you're going to find I need to recalibrate my, you know, reality TV show. So television and then try not to listen to too many musicals. But it's definitely on my playlist. But, you know, I love. You know, like 90s singers. I love me. I love like Tori Amos. Yeah. I love Joni Mitchell. Yes. Okay. Yes, this is James Taylor. Yeah. All right. I just I love the power of music as a palate cleanser. But then it's like just something totally different from what we're consuming for our job.

Absolutely. It's important. What do you think the industry doesn't understand about casting that you wish they did some or maybe something that the industry doesn't know about casting that you wish people would know if people could see you fully and clearly? Yeah, I think oftentimes like we are. Coin gatekeepers, because it's like we're we're the ones that are populating an audition room. I and I understand that. I think one of the things that is tricky is I do think that industry is over saturated, saturated right now. A lot of people are trying to do this. And every year, it seems like there are more and more schools that have a showcase in New York or whatever. I think just the understanding that we are we are trying to do are we care deeply about actors and we are trying to do our best to give everyone an opportunity.

But, you know, when one has three days of auditions and, you know, X number of actors to look at it, it's a challenge. You know, I think that's one thing to consider. What else would I like everyone to know about casting? Maybe something that other people misunderstand or you wish people would respect more. Everything you said is already great. I think. I think it's well, let's say this, I think it's amazing that casting was recognized by the Oscars this year, that there's a category for it. I think there is a sort of lack of understanding of the creativity of it, too, that much like a lighting designer or a set designer in consultation with the producers and the director about. We're taking that and it's like, OK, what is this the world of the play look like?

Who are the people on the stage and what's the vibe? What's all that? So I do think that we do have a really important artistic say and. I think it's a very important component, so I will say that and the amount of effort and work and a taste that go into what we do is is big. So. Just throwing that out there, I love to hear it, and that's important to know. What are the financial or lifestyle realities of casting that people might not realize? Or how do you live and support your life as a casting director? If so much of this is like on a freelance basis, how do you sustain this lifestyle? Absolutely. I mean, we're a company of 11, so we're quite a big company. So we have a lot of different projects.

But it is, you know, we're never going to be rich and famous, you know, a career in the arts. But I think perseverance and I can certainly speak for myself that, you know, when I first moved to New York, it was there was a lot of working for free and pounding the pavement and all of that, which is less a part of the industry right now. But I do think it's an it's a tricky thing to get your foot in the door in casting just because we don't really go to school for it. And there are internships now, but they're often like for college credit. Right. So, you know, it's a challenging thing to break into, I would say. But like in terms of lifestyle, it feels very much a part of my existence. It's not just a job to me.

And so many friends and colleagues that I work with are very important people in my life. And I'm deeply passionate about the art form and always at the theater. So, you know, it is it really is a lifestyle. It's not just like a 10 to six like this is what I do. So and I love that. Yeah. Tell me something that I might not know about TRC, maybe something fun about your co-workers or about being a business owner. Like what what is the fun part of the community that you have at TRC? I mean, I think Tara really set the tone from the beginning of Tara Rubin casting TRC Company being a group of people, like a family. Right. There's so much camaraderie. We have an office dinner to celebrate the end of the season in July.

We've gone bowling. We have a lot of fun. That's that's needed. That's so needed. OK, a couple more questions. What do you think is the biggest shift happening in commercial theater right now? I notice a lot the landscape of a lot of shows are changing. There are shows like Beaches that I had expected to do very well that did not or wasn't received the right way. And then so many shows or tours are going nonunion. How has that landscape changed? What have you seen? How does that affect your job? Yeah, I mean, I think it's clear when you look at the the grosses for the past couple of years post-pandemic that, you know, Broadway is in financial trouble. And I think that the industry has always worked itself out of that. And I can't speak for, you know, a producer and or a general manager in terms of all the ins and outs that they know. But I would say that.

[48:12] Peter Van Dam: Oftentimes we are casting smaller companies because gone are the days where there's a big cast of 35 plus. I mean, some shows, yes, but look at Beaches, for instance. We had to find these unicorns, these amazing people like Stephanie Marnietti and Mia Jaraschus that covered the leads, could dance in the ensemble numbers, could cover the mothers of the leads, and have the acting skills and the vocal skills, all of that, to pull all that out. So the expectations for all the things that people have to do in these smaller companies are huge. Oftentimes, in a musical, from the dance ensemble, people that have to do tricks and acrobat and all that, we have to find someone that can carry the legit score and play the lead.

So it definitely does affect our jobs in terms of a smaller cast size, which I think producers are obviously naturally looking toward. And as it pertains to non-equity tours, I know that that's definitely a financial consideration that a producing creative team has to make after a show is in New York and what makes the most sense. We have started to do some. For instance, we did Water for Elephants. We love working with that team. And we're almost done casting the national tour of Poop for Jerry Mitchell. So we have delved into the non-union world a bit this past year. But yeah, and also it's the amount of work that goes into these shows for everybody is huge. And sometimes they stick, sometimes they don't. So I think it's just being grateful for the work and the experience. And even if it lasts a couple of months, hopefully thinking fondly of what that process was like.

[50:13] Mikayla Petrilla: Yes, of course. What do you think would make this industry healthier or kinder or braver, or what can we do better?

[50:21] Peter Van Dam: Yeah, great question. You could take that wherever you want to take it.

[50:25] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah, I think there's a lot of digital overload. I had this wonderful experience. I inherited Tara had all the binders from the 1980s when she worked at Johnson Lyft. So I inherited all the original binders of casting Phantom of the Opera from day one. And what I observed in reading all those notes was more of a presence in a studio with a creative team and actors. Because you've got who's in front of you and that moment, you can't ask for a tape the next day because who's going to send a VHS? You pick up the phone, you call the agent, the actor comes and picks up the sides. Certainly it's far more convenient now and a completely different landscape. But I think we've lost the interpersonal, pick up the phone, how you doing? Because of the volume of everything going on and the number of actors out there, it doesn't feel like we've lost that something special in the digital chaos that we live in.

[51:46] Peter Van Dam: That makes sense. It's really hard too, because I think that feeds into the anxiety beast of what can I do better or how can I make an impression? Because there's such limited time to make an authentic connection with people and that's what we all crave or else we wouldn't be doing this. But just the saturation of the industry, it's so hard to parse through that. And Godspeed for that being your job.

[52:06] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah. And I also think everyone in the industry is there, hopefully, because they're passionate about it, because they love what they do and they want to be a facilitator for the best work out there. So we're all doing our best in a field which is often chaotic and often very fast-paced and often, frankly, heartbreaking. Because so much work is put into something that for whatever reason does not run. So I think just walking arm in arm and understanding where everyone is coming from is important. I try to do that with actors as much as I can. And I feel like if I don't, I'm not doing my job.

[52:55] Peter Van Dam: That's so comforting to hear. And that's like, you're just a really good person. I love it.

[52:59] Mikayla Petrilla: Thank you. I try.

[53:00] Peter Van Dam: What is your proudest moment in casting? Or what is a full circle moment where you're sitting in the house watching a show you cast or you're in the room with creatives and it's this surreal moment of like, little you is so happy that you're doing this, or I'm just so proud of the work that I helped create. What is an example of that for you?

[53:21] Peter Van Dam: That's a great question. A very proud and personal moment for me was Dead Outlaw. The director, David Cromer, is a great friend of mine. And I've worked with David Yazbek, the composer, before on Band's Visit. But after auditions and much discussion, a very dear friend of mine, who I lived with in New York for 12 years, went to school together, Andrew Durand, was cast as the Dead Outlaw and was nominated for Tony Awards. So I went with Andrew, my dear friend of many, many years to the Tony Awards. And that was a very special moment. Very full circle.

[53:57] Mikayla Petrilla: That is so sweet. Didn't think that something like that would happen when we were in school together.

[54:02] Peter Van Dam: Right. That's so surreal. So that was a proud moment. And I love that show.

[54:07] Mikayla Petrilla: It's a brilliant show. I was really sad it didn't last longer. But again, commercial viability of shows, you just can't figure it out. But that was such a special show. But that's just one highlight. I really fall in love with everything I work on. So there are many more. But yeah, that's what comes to mind.

[54:26] Mikayla Petrilla: What are your hopes and dreams for the industry? We talked a little bit about this when it comes to just finding a little more human-to-human connection. But where do you see the next era of TRC? What kind of work do you want to help build?

[54:40] Peter Van Dam: Yes, I love new work. And I love championing young people, young composers, young writers, young directors. So that's something that I'm really interested in. It's like we work on a lot of big commercial projects and Broadway shows, tours. But we also love doing readings with up-and-coming creative team members. I also, of course, want to mention diversity and inclusion in what we do. And I think over the past couple of years, I've had so many great conversations with actors and creative team members about how we can all do better and how we can all support each other. And my job and what I do, how important that is in terms of giving opportunities to people and thinking outside the box. So I'm very energized by that work and being able to talk human-to-human about it. And I hope the needle continues to move in the right direction there.

[55:44] Mikayla Petrilla: Great. And you sit in such an interesting spot in casting because you're both so visible and invisible, holding so many things behind the strings and figuring things out that you are, I know we said glue before, but you are the catalyst of bringing all this. So being the one to advocate for artists, inclusivity, diversity, that is so great.

[56:05] Peter Van Dam: Yes. I mean, hopefully that would already be happening, but just knowing that people are there to have those conversations and really be active about changing that for the better, I think is incredible.

[56:16] Mikayla Petrilla: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think one of the most important components of our job.

[56:20] Peter Van Dam: And you did that with Peppermint?

[56:21] Mikayla Petrilla: Peppermint. Peppermint.

[56:21] Peter Van Dam: Head Over Heels. Yes. That was another amazing moment, when Peppermint, her final callback. Tell me more about that.

[56:26] Peter Van Dam: Head Over Heels, this was back in 2016, 2017, around then. I think it was a show that was ahead of its time. And we were casting a non-binary character at a time where a lot of people didn't know what they, them, theirs pronouns were. And we looked a lot of people in the trans non-binary community and Peppermint taped, made a tape, and we gave some notes to her. She re-taped. When she came in the room in front of all of us at the final callback, it was very much like an aha moment about, oh, this is very special. Oh my gosh. And I think it meant a lot to the show. And you know, I love that cast. I love that group of people. And I wish Head Over Heels had opened post-pandemic at a time, because I think at a time where there's so much celebration, I think, despite the world right now of our differences, I think that show really tapped into that in a lovely, hilarious, heartwarming way.

[57:45] Mikayla Petrilla: Yes. And sometimes you just need to be able to laugh and feel camaraderie with people to really get through. And the spirit of that show does all of those things.

[57:48] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. Maybe a revival at some point.

[57:48] Mikayla Petrilla: Let's bring it. Okay. Last question for you. What is a piece of advice you received that sticks with you that you would want other people to hear as well? Or what has carried you through? It could be from family, friends, a mentor, maybe something that you heard from someone that influenced you growing up.

[58:03] Peter Van Dam: Yeah. I will say Lonnie Price at the Beaches meet and greet said, you know, we are all so lucky to be here. There are so many people that are trying to do and wanting to do what we do. And it is a privilege to be in this space together. So even though that was a recent piece of advice, it really meant a lot to me because it's true. You know, it's this community, what we do is many people are deeply passionate about. So I think I have to remind myself in the chaos and the sort of heartache at times of it, that like it really is an amazing community and industry to be a part of. And I am very grateful for, you know, my place, my contribution in that and to be able to do what I do and make a living doing it.

[59:47] Mikayla Petrilla: Yeah. So I feel very lucky and grateful. We're lucky to have you. Oh, my gosh. Like what an incredible advocate for everyone across the table. Thank you for coming on.

[59:55] Peter Van Dam: Thank you for having me to end on. But I get leading with gratitude is the best thing that we can do. It reminds us why we're doing what we're doing. And just knowing that you are in so many people's quarters is incredible.

[60:05] Mikayla Petrilla: Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on. And where can we support your work? Should we go on your website? Should we look at a playbill?

[60:12] Peter Van Dam: We have a great official website, our Instagram account, TRC Company. We often post open call flyers, virtual open call flyers. I have a personal Instagram. Feel free to follow me there. But yeah, TRC Instagram is a great resource for sure.

[60:25] Mikayla Petrilla: We'll link it in the show notes.

[60:26] Peter Van Dam: Yeah.

[60:26] Mikayla Petrilla: If you enjoyed this episode, please do all the things I'm supposed to tell you to do. Subscribe, like, comment, rate, review, share it with your friends. We are still in the early stages of this podcast. And every bit of love really does help us to grow in this strange little electronic algorithm we all live in. More importantly, I hope that we could lift your spirits today. All right, until next time, keep dreaming big, and I'll see you for the next cup of tea.