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[0:00] Ken Davenport: So I have to be prepared, and I'm generally prepared 70 or 75%. But I like divine inspiration. I like that. I believe in it. I believe that those actors are divine creatures. And I think if they have an instinct to move in a certain way or to do something at a certain time, I don't want to cut that off. I’ll put a ceiling on their creativity. I wanna be a producer with a hit show on Broadway. You're listening to the Producers Perspective Podcast with your host, Tony Award winner, Ken Davenport.

[0:38] Ken Davenport: Hey, that is Kiss Me Kate, currently on Broadway at the Roundabout Theater, choreographed by none other than today's guest, Mr. Warren Carlyle. We'll be getting to Warren in just a second, who's gonna tell you all about how he staged this number and the tricky part he had with another number in the show and how he solved it. And he's gonna talk about working with Hugh Jackman and Bette Midler and what it was like being a real-life Billy Elliot. Yeah, but before we do that, Kiss Me Kate's nominated for some Tony Awards this year. Are you watching the Tony Awards? It is coming up, my friends. It is coming up. Sunday, June 9th, CBS 8 o'clock. You know what's at 9? Game of Thrones. You know what would be over by then?

Game of Thrones. So set your DVRs, plan your Tony parties right now. Let's make this the most watched Tony Awards ever, including this number from Kiss Me Kate. I'm sure they're doing "Too Darn Hot." So tune in. Otherwise, you will have nothing to talk about the next day when everyone's like, did you see "Too Darn Hot" on the Tony Awards? They crushed it. So tune in. Sunday night, June 9th, 8 o'clock CBS. Enjoy the show. And now on with Mr. Warren Carlyle.

[2:02] Ken Davenport: Hello, theater fans. Welcome back to the Producer's Perspective podcast. My name is Ken Davenport. Thank you for listening and for your support of live theater. We are talking to one of the hottest choreographers in Times Square these days. Please welcome Tony Award winner, Mr. Warren Carlyle. Welcome, Warren.

[2:17] Warren Carlyle: Hi, hi.

[2:19] Ken Davenport: So Warren won for his beautiful production of After Midnight and was nominated for Best Director on that as well. He was Tony nominated for Kiss Me Kate this year, which I have not seen yet, but I cannot wait. Just one more next week I can see it. Other credits on Broadway include Hello Dolly, On the 20th Century, A Christmas Story, Follies, Finian's Rainbow, which he also directed as well. Tell us how you got started on your path to Broadway, because you did not grow up around here from what I know.

[2:45] Warren Carlyle: I did not. I mean, I clearly grew up in a different country, England. I grew up in a small town called Norwich. I danced from the age of 10. I got a scholarship to a ballet school. Billy Elliot is actually the best way to describe my life. That's actually truly who I am. I am Billy Elliot.

[3:02] Ken Davenport: That's so you were from a little small town.

[3:02] Warren Carlyle: From a small town. Dancing was not the thing for little boys to do.

[3:08] Ken Davenport: Absolutely, absolutely.

[3:09] Warren Carlyle: And my mom, God love her, took me to a church hall. I took a tap class. A year later, I got a scholarship to a ballet school, and then off I went. I danced in 10 West End shows, and then 20 years ago, moved to New York to be the assistant to Susan Stroman. I was the assistant on a show called The Producers.

[3:28] Ken Davenport: Never heard of it.

[3:29] Warren Carlyle: Never heard of it, right? A little bit of a little off-Broadway flop called The Producers. So I came for six months and never left. I sponsored myself for a green card, stayed, and now 14 Broadway shows later, here I am.

[3:44] Ken Davenport: So as you now, as you look at young kids going into dance now, is 10 years old considered late?

[3:52] Warren Carlyle: Yeah. Yeah, because it's the Olympics.

[3:55] Ken Davenport: It's the Olympics.

[3:56] Warren Carlyle: Unless you're three, I have a niece who's five, and she's doing backflips already. I mean, she's a very sophisticated gymnast at the age of five. So I think ten is late.

[4:07] Ken Davenport: Why did your mom bring you? Like what was it?

[4:10] Warren Carlyle: You know, I was hyperactive. I was really hyperactive, and I ran, I was in the track team and on the swim team, and I was into all sorts of sports. I did horseback riding, I did karate, I did all sorts of crazy things, and I saw the movie Top Hat on the TV. I saw Fred Astaire in a pair of tap shoes, and I literally pointed at the TV and said, I want to do that. And that was it.

[4:30] Ken Davenport: Because it is like the Olympics, dance is like the Olympics, you can never be perfect, or it can always be better. And what year was that, man?

[4:37] Warren Carlyle: Or, uh, 10. The 80s.

[4:40] Ken Davenport: So Top Hat, what I'm going for is Top Hat, obviously was a little bit of a vintage movie, obviously then. And you've been known for these classic revivals that are also a little throwback.

[4:50] Warren Carlyle: So even then you had a flair for that.

[4:50] Ken Davenport: Yeah, it feels like that's my wheelhouse. And I'm scared to say that because I'd like to be hired for some contemporary musical theater at some point in my life. But no, I think I have a, I like classic, I like elegant, I like intelligent, beautiful pieces of theater and joyous celebrations of things. I don't like looking down at things. My POV is much more looking up. With After Midnight, I looked up at Duke Ellington, I celebrated his music. With Kiss Me Kate, you know, you'll see I look up at that kind of era. I look up at the 40s, I look up at this kind of battle of the sexes, you know, since Adam and Eve, I look up at that, I look up at us folks in the theater. I think it's a really, that just seems to be my personal creative point of view.

[5:35] Ken Davenport: Well, I have to believe that that's part of the reasons for your tremendous success because musical theater, especially, that was at the point, right? To make people forget about their troubles and put some joy into their lives.

[5:46] Warren Carlyle: Yeah, and After Midnight is a good example, you know, it was set in the Cotton Club during the Harlem riots, and I kept those riots outside of the theater doors. I decided just to escape for 90 minutes, to let audiences take them back to a beautiful, wonderful time that we can no longer have. And a lot of my work, you're correct, seems to be of that kind of ilk.

[6:02] Ken Davenport: So you did 10 West End shows, so then you move here. Obviously, you could have continued, I would imagine, a very successful career as a performer, and you come over here to be an associate choreographer. So why the switch?

[6:21] Warren Carlyle: I think I'd always choreographed. It's funny, when I was 24, I choreographed my first West End show. So I was already, I think from a young age, I was listening to music and imagining people dancing. And I think being able to come to America, I wanted to be a small fish in a big pond. I wanted to come to the country of Jerome Robbins, of Bob Fosse, you know, Martha Graham. I just wanted to be in this country, I wanted to learn from the best. And being in New York and working on Broadway, I got to learn from the best. And of course, sitting at the feet of Susan Stroman was a really great introduction to this world.

[6:55] Ken Davenport: Did you perform here as well?

[6:57] Warren Carlyle: The last time I ever danced was in a movie called Center Stage, and that was in 1999. It was shot here in New York City.

[7:04] Ken Davenport: So you didn't perform on a Broadway stage?

[7:06] Warren Carlyle: No, never.

[7:07] Ken Davenport: Never. So when you got here, weren't you like, oh my god, now I'm a performer, I gotta perform on a Broadway stage? You were like, nope, I'm choreographing, that's it.

[7:15] Warren Carlyle: Yeah, because I think in my brain from 24, I'd already moved on. You know, in a funny way, I was so eager to choreograph, and I maintained the show, The Producers, for seven years. I waited for seven years for my chance to choreograph. I really waited at the St. James Theater. I waited for seven years. And having Finian's Rainbow in that very same theater was really a very powerful moment because I literally sat on the steps at the back of that Broadway theater and waited for seven years.

[7:42] Ken Davenport: And what came first? What was the opportunity that came to the store?

[7:46] Warren Carlyle: What was interesting was it was one that I would never have dreamt of. It was a show called Tale of Two Cities.

[7:52] Ken Davenport: A little known Broadway show, I have to say.

[7:56] Warren Carlyle: Right. I mean, it's really interesting. And I was booked to choreograph it in Florida. I didn't know it was ever going to be a Broadway show, and it was directed by a wonderful guy, and it was his first musical. And after we did our out of town version, it was clear that I needed just to wear both hats. It was clear to all of us, actually. So I did. I took over directing, and then lo and behold, my Broadway debut as a director was at the Hirschfeld Theatre.

[8:23] Ken Davenport: So tell me, let's talk about I want to get back to your trajectory, but let's talk about that because I find it so interesting, especially because I'm watching Fosse/Verdon right now on FX. But I've talked about this with some other guests as well. How many superstars in the theater we've had that are both directors and choreographers? So it became very clear that you needed to wear both hats. Why do choreographers make such great directors as well? Why is that transition so easy?

[8:48] Warren Carlyle: I think they're storytellers, actually. I think if you're good at telling a story, you're good at telling a story. It doesn't matter. I see. I think some writers actually make great directors too. You know, I've seen that happen. But I think great storytellers come in both bodies. And someone like Tommy Tune is an incredible visual storyteller. Bob Fosse, incredible, was able to work in a wide shot on a stage, but focused our eye by the isolation of the body, by moving one finger, and suddenly 1,500 people all looking at that one finger. And then Bob Fosse with a camera was able to do a close-up on that finger. So you see his vision translate from a wide shot in the theater to a close-up on film.

[9:29] Ken Davenport: And it was something that I think for him certainly translated very quickly and very easily. So the unexpected Tale of Two Cities lands on Broadway, and you're all of a sudden making your Broadway debut now, not just as a choreographer, but as a director choreographer. How was that? When you were, was it like, oh shit, this is happening?

[9:48] Warren Carlyle: Yeah. Was it exciting?

[9:49] Warren Carlyle: It was exactly that. No, it was slightly scary. It was a 19 million dollar production. It was my first as a director. I was a very, I continued to be an inexperienced director. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot. It was a difficult story to tell, and I was trying to tell it with a great deal of imagination, and it was a project that the writer had had. Jill Santoriello wrote book, music, and lyrics. So I had all three departments in one person. She'd been doing it for 25 years, and I was the person tasked with bringing her child to life. It was an interesting experience and something that I really loved. And I believe I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now had I not had that experience. And I just needed to get, I needed to hit the ball over the net.

I needed to direct and choreograph a Broadway show because there's that thing about once you've done one, once you proved you can do it, there's a little bit more likelihood that you're gonna do it again. So for me, that was a very important beginning. And I went to Jack Vertell after it and said, I think I don't think I can be a director, I don't think I can do this. This was really hard for me. And he said, oh good, I want you to direct Finian's Rainbow at City Center.

[10:59] Warren Carlyle: So I did. So he made me get back in the saddle immediately, and that was all Jack Vertel. Jack pushed me to do Finian's. And of course, I found a wonky little show that I just fell madly in love with. It has the kind of magic that I really like. It's not a linear story. And then it played at City Center here in New York, and an intermission of the show on the Friday night at the end of the run, Rocco Landisman called me and said, "You got the St. James Theatre. I love this show. I love it. It's going into the St. James." So before I even knew it, before I'd even had a chance to think, I'd booked my second Broadway show as a director. And then thanks to the glorious Charles Isherwood, glorious in font 22, bold, glorious, Charles Isherwood wrote me some really incredible reviews for that show that then I think helped just give me confidence.

They gave me confidence, they gave the industry confidence in me as a director and just helped me really get started. Yeah, that review is beautiful production, and that rare thing, revival with no stars, no real stars, Kate Baldwin and Shia Jackson, incredible performers, but not a whole they're certainly not Bette Midler, right? And across the board raves, I remember, like every single review was amazing for your work and for the show itself. Unfortunately, it didn't have a very long run. How did you deal with that? This industry obviously is so arbitrary. It's the first, you know, it's like your first breakup. You know, it's the first time you get your heart broken. And that was the first time because I'd really, I'd never in I'd never fallen in love with something actually as much as I loved that.

I really loved that cast. I loved that production. I loved being in that theater, the St. James, that magical, magical place. And it was the first time that I was really truly heartbroken about something. You know, and I've been better about it since. But we love these shows. We really love them. And it's when I direct and choreograph something, it's not a little bit of myself in it. It's my whole, you get my whole heart. You get all of me. You get the good, the bad, the ugly, like all of me is on that stage. And Finian's was really all of me. It was all my imagination, my childhood. It was all of my heart and it was just the first time that something like that came and went so quickly. So after the first show you had to pick yourself up again and thanks to Jack Vertel for helping do that. The industry always debt actually and after this, now did you find yourself you had to pick yourself back up again or were you no no I get it now.

[13:26] Warren Carlyle: No, I was I was a little bit older and uglier and I yeah I took some time. I didn't work I actually probably didn't work for about eight months after Finian's. I just it just took me a minute. It took me a minute to realize what my life was about to be like actually because I was very new at it and then and after eight months I did you know did 10 readings and 10 workshops in those eight months but nothing of any note and then after after some time had passed I was actually ready. I'd like steeled myself and I was and I was ready to be in the business actually. So tell me a little bit about your process. So someone calls you and says, oh, you're gonna do Hello Dolly, or you're gonna do Finian's, or you're gonna do something new. What's the first thing you do?

[14:07] Warren Carlyle: I read the script. I mean, I really I'm really good with my scripts. I spend a long time. The older I get, the longer I spend sitting down, actually. I spend a long time with the script. I go word to word to word to word to word to word. I make sure actually first that I understand every single thing that's been said. I try not to take anything for granted. Once I've been through the script three or four or five times, then I start with the music and I'll play and listen to every single note. I'll analyze the music. I'll write down certain things about certain characters. You know, he's a con man. Great. So now I know he needs a tap dance because tap dance equals conning. I can con someone with those feet.

Like that's fun for me. So I'll start to find things or pull things out of it, lift things out that appeal to me, appeal to my imagination, appeal to my sensibility. But it's really for me, it's really page one. I do one page at a time. The older I get, the slower I am. Because it feels like if I can get the concept right, then the steps come very easily. It's never really about the steps for me. It's much more about the idea. The idea of Kiss Me, Kate's a good example. Too Darn Hot is 10 minutes and 47 seconds of dance. But it's about actors at rest. It's intermission of the show. They're all in the back alleyway of the theater, and you get to watch these beautiful creatures at rest. And for me, it was all about that.

And then it became the second layer was it became this kind of battle of the sexes. If the men danced, then guess what? The women are gonna dance better. And if the women dance better, then guess what? The men are gonna dance. And then guess what? Here comes Corbin in a pair of tap shoes. Guess what? Here comes James T. Lane, and we have the Nicholas Brothers. Guess what? It's so great that steam explodes through the floor. Guess what? We're gonna tiptoe around and start again. I mean, it just it's interesting, but it becomes about layers. So I've learned just I've learned not to rush. I don't rush to opening night. One of the numbers in Kiss Me, Kate, I changed, I think, five days before opening because I still wasn't happy. It was a seven out of ten, and it needs to, in my book, be between it needs to be an eight out of ten minimum. So I worked at Bianca with sweet Corbin Bleu a lot.

[16:08] Warren Carlyle: And the seven out of ten, eight out of ten, is that your own scale? How much of that is dependent upon audience response or what you're hearing or seeing? Uh it's a little bit. A lot of it's just gut. I mean, I thought with Bianca as an example, I wrote in my script, "Don't try too hard, Warren, don't try too hard." Because it's in that moment in Act Two where we just we're in need of a charm number. The show needs a charm number. Bianca is a charm number, it's a response to her number before it. You know, and I just didn't want to try so hard. A lot of Kiss Me, Kate is very percussive, it's very athletic. The men are jumping and flipping, and there's all sorts of stuff going on. And I just wanted a smile.

I just wanted the audience to smile and enjoy this. And when I got it was beautiful in the rehearsal room, and it got to the theater, and the audience smiled, but then that smile felt like a seven. It felt like a seven out of ten. So I then went to work on what can I do to actually help make this better, make my work better. Corbin has always been incredible. It's never about Corbin, it just was about me and about my particular concept for it that didn't hold up. So then I looked at David Rockwell's three-story set, and of course, I realized I wasn't dancing on the set because I'd been in a rehearsal room with no set. So now suddenly there's a dance that goes on three layers, three levels that seemed to help.

And as I was sitting there, I was thinking, okay, so I've danced, so then it became an eight out of ten, better. Now all the girls are dancing, they're all tapping, which they didn't expect, nor did I. So now all these beautiful women are tap dancing all over this set on all these levels. And then there's one piece as a landing, and all I can see from the third row is that is the underneath of this landing, and I just thought I just gotta put his feet there. Like somehow I have to get Corbin to dance underneath that piece of scenery because it's the only piece of real estate I haven't used. So literally five days before we opened, I had some extra railings installed and bullied Corbin into flipping upside down on dancing on this, basically dancing on the ceiling. Um then now, and and you'll see it, it's more of an eight out of ten than it is a seven.

[18:07] Warren Carlyle: Sounds like I aged closer. Little spoiler alert there, but wow, it's amazing because I always think that a choreographer has to like blueprint the steps out so far in advance of even getting the rehearsal room, and it just sounds like much more of a freeform process for you being frankly inspired by what you're seeing. Yeah, I like collaborating. I think that's the fun of it for me. Like I could I could pre-plan the whole show, I really could, but it's but that's not fun. It doesn't leave any room for the actors, it doesn't leave any room for the writers. Then suddenly no one else has an opinion other than me, and I think that's lonely. So I have to be prepared, and I'm generally prepared 70 or 75%, but I like divine inspiration.

I like that I believe in it. I believe that those actors are divine creatures, and I think if they if they have an instinct to move in a certain way or to do something at a certain time, I don't want to cut that off or put a ceiling on their creativity. Because once they do something, then I can top that, and then they can top me, and then off and then off we go, and then before you know it, you're making these kind of numbers that can blow the roof off. Um so I like to I like to play I like to be prepared enough that I'm not in a panic, but I like to leave a little room.

[19:21] Ken Davenport: So speaking of collaboration, when do you like to come aboard a show? How early, how late?

[19:25] Warren Carlyle: I mean, I prefer if I'm just gonna choreograph, I would prefer early. Otherwise, it just becomes like a department that's just kind of stuck on. It's like the projection department or something. You know, it's like that's what happens. It's like, oh, we'll do the show, we'll write it, we'll do all the music, we'll do all this stuff, and then we're gonna hire the production, the projection designer, and he's gonna make some images. Like, I feel like sometimes choreography can be in that kind of billing. But if dance is in there from the get-go, um, I give you two examples. Oklahoma, Carousel. That's it. I mean, there's nothing more to say. That Agnes de Mille was in at the ground floor, and you know, her dances in those two shows change the way we do musicals.

And I think if dance can be in at the ground floor, it can it can tell story. It can tell story in a profound way. And I also think that it has this kind of special vibration. I think that when you can express yourself through spoken words, you sing, and when you can express yourself through song, you dance. So I feel that dance is a high expression of emotion, and I think to create the musical without that as part of it is a mistake. And I've done both. I've done musicals where I've been in there from the first day as it's been written, and I've done musicals where I've come in very late and then had to kind of push my way to expand um the minds of the other um collaborators.

[20:50] Ken Davenport: Yeah, just as you say that, it just reminded me of what we were talking about before about director choreographers. Obviously, they think Fosse, Bennett, some of the greatest music, Robins, right? Greatest musicals we've ever had, West Side Story, Chorus Line, were director choreographers because they were obviously thinking about dance at the get-go. I mean, the first the first words of West Side Story, think about the first words of West Side Story. It's a chassis sideways, actually. It's a dancer center stage on his right foot, and he goes, "B butter ball change. Shah say rock back." They're the first words of that play, and I think that's really profound, actually. And that Robins somehow figured that out. They all those guys figured that out. They knew that the first words of that play needed to be dance.

[21:33] Warren Carlyle: Yeah, what you know, actually, Arthur Lawrence, who wrote the book, is infamous for having quite an ego, but for able being able to take a back step to no no, I'm gonna let dance lead this because dance has to lead this.

[21:46] Warren Carlyle: Yeah, and we're still we're still trying to get to the level of what Robins did.

[21:50] Warren Carlyle: We still, still, generation after generation, that choreography is masterful, masterful, and we have yet, in my opinion, we have yet to get there, we have yet to do better.

[22:01] Ken Davenport: How has choreography changed over the last 20 years? Has it changed because of the athleticism of the dancers, just like basketball has changed or golf has changed?

[22:10] Warren Carlyle: I think that's brilliant. I would agree. I think it's like the Olympics. Every single season, every single year, the dancers get better. And I used to find it was me challenging them creatively, and now it's them challenging me. Now I walk into a rehearsal room thinking I'd better do something that's worthy of these guys. I'd better do work that's good enough for them. You know, I work on the TV show, So You Think You Can Dance as well. I've done five seasons of that. And I love doing it because they are the greatest dancers in the whole world. Those kids are 19 and 20, they're young, they're not yet broken. And it is it's like choreography in the Olympics, because there is nothing they cannot do. So every single year the standard goes up.

[22:52] Ken Davenport: And does technology affect choreography at all? We've seen a lot of changes, or are you one of those art forms that know, like painting, like it will just be always the same?

[23:02] Warren Carlyle: I think it's interesting, you know. The Hugh Jackman tour that I just directed and choreographed integrates. We have, I don't know, a lot of screens, a lot of screens, millions of millions of dollars worth of LED tile, and that is fully integrated actually. The choreography is integrated into the video content. The dance on the stage is reproduced by eight live camera feeds that I also direct, and it's an interesting marriage of choreography and cameras, and choreography and video content. I like that. Radio City that I directed a few years ago was also a good marriage of that, was this incredible video content, but we did a lot of green screen. I'm finding that more and more that it's part of what I do is being able to marry those two forms.

[23:52] Ken Davenport: Speaking of Mr. Jackman, you've dealt with some pretty big stars in your day, obviously. How is working with a big star versus working with someone who is not a big star? Do you find yourself having to act a little differently?

[24:06] Warren Carlyle: No, it's the same. I have to say it's the same. It really is. Bette Midler is wonderful, and Hugh Jackman is wonderful, and all of the people I've worked with, but ultimately we just want to do a good job. All of us. When you really get to the root of it, we just want to do a good job. You know, if you're a book writer, you just want to write a good book, you want to write some great lines that people remember, or that actors can succeed with. And if you're a choreographer, you want to create a musical number that blows the roof off. And if you're a big star, you want to do good for the show. I mean, that's a big responsibility. Bette Midler carried a big responsibility with Hello, Dolly! just as Hugh will do with Music Man. You know, it's Hugh Jackman's Music Man. That's a responsibility, and I know he'll feel that keenly.

[24:55] Ken Davenport: Do you read reviews?

[24:57] Warren Carlyle: Yeah, I read everything. Every single review. Yeah, I didn't used to. It's funny. I used to protect myself from it. But the problem is the business is so small that everybody you meet has read them. So I don't like meeting someone that knows something about me that I don't know. You know, and it does, it colors, it colors meetings or it colors, it colors things. So now I'm just brave. Now I just read them. It's okay. And I think if you can take the good ones, you should take the bad ones too. And quite often in my case, I have to say they're right. I've been reading them lately, and there are some really insightful ones in a couple of instances that I'm enjoying.

[25:33] Ken Davenport: Like what?

[25:35] Warren Carlyle: You know, Jesse Green, I have to say, Jesse Green writes really good reviews. He's generally right in my personal case, in my case, he's generally right. I've gone back a couple of times and read things that he's written over the years, actually, and that's been really interesting. For some reason, if I'm nervous about something, he can generally pick up on it.

[25:58] Ken Davenport: If the Smithsonian Institute called and said, we have room for one of your numbers in our institute to preserve forever. What's the your favorite number you've ever choreographed? Any show.

[26:13] Warren Carlyle: That's a really interesting question. You know, I secretly have three of my assistants have a list for my memorial. They have I have a famous list of numbers to be performed in my memorial, and they're like the all-time favorites. It's really funny. All right, let's see if I've got them here first. I got there's a couple. There's a couple on that list. This at this particular time in my life, it would have to be "Too Darn Hot" from Kiss Me, Kate. Just because it's 10 minutes and 47 seconds of just great Broadway dance. It's like beautiful animals doing what they were born to do. And I love watching the audience, you know, there's this weird thing with the number that it opens act two, and this polite applause, and then you feel the audience realize wait a minute, those kids just danced for 10 minutes and 45 seconds. And it's just the chorus kids, and there's a beautiful swell of applause that I actually I like that for them. So this season it would be that.

[27:07] Ken Davenport: Now I'm into this memorial theme. I'm gonna ask this question now. I'm gonna make this up as we go. So if you could have someone speak at your memorial, living or dead, known to you or unknown to you, who would it be?

[27:25] Warren Carlyle: Christine Baranski.

[27:27] Ken Davenport: Christine Baranski?

[27:28] Warren Carlyle: Yeah.

[27:29] Ken Davenport: Why?

[27:29] Warren Carlyle: Because I love her. Because I love her. I did a meme with her at the Kennedy Center, and she and I had a beautiful, beautiful connection, and she taught me how to read a script. She taught me how to read a script. That's Christine Baranski. So she's someone that gets me. Her understudy would be Nathan Lane.

[27:47] Ken Davenport: Have you worked with Nathan?

[27:48] Warren Carlyle: I have worked with Nathan, and Nathan was there right at the beginning of my American life, and was someone that really I'm very fond of, have continued to be fond of over the years, and yeah, Nathan would be the understudy to Christine Baranski.

[28:01] Ken Davenport: So you have that real great perspective because you worked for so many years in the West End, and then so many years here. What's something that we do? What's something that the West End does better than Broadway that we could learn from?

[28:17] Warren Carlyle: Oh that's hard to say really because I've been here for so many years. I enjoy some of their straight plays. I enjoy going to the Royal National Theatre and seeing what they're doing. That's something that I just and that's a personal thing, and it's not that one thing's better than the other in a way, but I think some of those young playwrights that they kind of champion that come up through the Royal National Theatre are really kind of great. Kind of great. And they take risks that I enjoy.

[28:46] Ken Davenport: What's something that Broadway does better than the West End?

[28:50] Warren Carlyle: Oh this I yeah, this I'm just gonna say my version of it. I think musical theater here is really kind of terrific. It's a very American, seems to me a very American art form. It's just in your DNA somehow of that, it has that can-do spirit, and I think it's slightly different in England. There's a slightly different mentality to a musical, there's a slightly different approach to a musical. It just feels like a very, very American art form, and something that everyone here is really, really good at.

[29:22] Ken Davenport: Any young choreographers out there that you've got your eye on that you like, new people to the biz?

[29:28] Warren Carlyle: Yeah, you know, she's not new, but she's quite wonderful. Camille Brown. I'm watching her, boy, is she coming, look out. I gotta dance a little faster. She's just I think she's wonderful. I think she's really wonderful. I watched Once on This Island. I thought was just wonderful, and Choir Boy this season, which she's nominated for. I think she's really wonderful and a strong, a strong woman with a strong voice, and I've got my eye on her.

[29:56] Ken Davenport: And besides that Music Man with that star that no one's ever heard of before, what else do you have coming next?

[30:02] Warren Carlyle: So I have a revival of Secret Garden, which I'm really keen on. I'm really keen on it. It's one of my favorite musicals of all time, that show. The music is just a killer. It's a beautiful show, and I did a workshop about a year ago now of it, and we're ready to go. I mean, we're ready to go, we're cast pretty much, and we're in line for theaters. That's our plan for that.

[30:25] Ken Davenport: Alright, my last question, which is my genie question. I want you to imagine that the genie from Aladdin comes to visit you and grants you one wish. So we already talked about how you look up at everything, and I can get that sense from you just in this last 30 minutes or so. But now I want you to think about what's the one thing about Broadway that drives you absolutely crazy, gets you pissed off, would have you flip this table up that you'd ask this genie to wish away in an instant.

[30:53] Warren Carlyle: I wish that I could hire every single person that auditions for me. That would be my one wish. I think the hardest, the hardest part of my job is saying no, actually. And I don't love it. I don't love sitting in judgment of people, especially people that work really hard. And so if I had a genie, I would hire every single person that auditions for me.

[31:13] Ken Davenport: What is your audition process like as a choreographer? We've heard all these actual stories and all this. Do you have what do you do with dancers in a room?

[31:22] Warren Carlyle: Yeah, it's pretty rough. It's pretty rough. Yeah, and I like to make them difficult because I don't always know what I'm gonna do in the show, and I never want to be in a position where I can't do something. So I tend to be pretty tough. I traditionally I'll always have a kick, I'll always have a turn, I'll always have a rhythm step. I'll always have something that's extremely difficult because then I get to test the person, not just the dancer. I just get to test whether they can say yes in a difficult situation. Yeah, I normally I normally test them quite hard.

[31:52] Ken Davenport: How does a dancer get your attention in a room filled with 30 of them?

[31:56] Warren Carlyle: Strong technique, long legs, short body, an ability to say yes, speed, rhythm, beautiful legs and feet, and an easy relaxed face. That's generally what I respond to.

[32:10] Ken Davenport: Well, there you go. There's a top 10 list of how to get cast in a Warren Carlyle show right there. Thank you so much for that answer, and thank you so much for joining us here today. Good luck this season, good luck coming up. Thanks to all of you for listening, and we will see you next time.