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[0:00] Susan Blackwell: The SparkFile podcast may contain profanity and other adult content. Please use your discretion.

[0:10] Susan Blackwell: When I bump into something that inspires me, I jump in my spark file. Spark file to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I pump it in my spark. Spark file. I jump into my spark slide. Let's open up the spark file.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, where we believe that everyone is creative, but smart creative people don't go it alone.

[0:42] Susan Blackwell: I'm Susan Blackwell, and we are creativity coaches who help people clarify and accomplish their creative goals.

[0:50] Laura Camien: Know that just by listening to this podcast, you are joining a warm and wonderful clan of creatives.

[0:57] Susan Blackwell: But hold up. You may be asking yourself, what exactly is a sparkfile?

[1:01] Laura Camien: A sparkfile is a place where you consistently collect all of your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:08] Susan Blackwell: Every episode, we're gonna reach into our sparkfiles and we're gonna exchange some sparks.

[1:14] Laura Camien: And from time to time, we may even talk to some folks who spark us too.

[1:18] Susan Blackwell: And your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to take some of those sparks of inspiration and make something of your own.

[1:24] Laura Camien: So without further ado, let's open up the Spark file.

[1:29] Susan Blackwell: Hi, Laura.

[1:30] Laura Camien: Hello, Susan.

[1:31] Susan Blackwell: Laura, I've got a big bountiful spark for you today.

[1:36] Laura Camien: I am so ready. I'm so ready for this spark.

[1:39] Susan Blackwell: Let's just dive straight in.

[1:40] Laura Camien: Okay.

[1:41] Susan Blackwell: So, as many of you know, our dear friend Gavin Creel passed away recently at the age of 48. Gavin was, to quote Hunter Bell, a special noodle, as evidenced by the outpouring of love towards him.

[1:57] Laura Camien: Yep.

[1:57] Susan Blackwell: We were speaking with Sparkfiler, Broadway producer, founder of Ours Nova, Jenny Steingart, and Jenny remarked that she had never seen such an outpouring of love for a member of our community. And it really was a testament, is a testament to the magnitude of the loss that we are experiencing and a life well lived.

[2:20] Laura Camien: I mean what a legacy.

[2:22] Susan Blackwell: What a legacy. The legacy of how many lives he touched.

[2:26] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[2:27] Susan Blackwell: So in addition to being a world-class talent and an extremely gifted teacher, Gavin was an incredibly vibrant person. So it's extremely difficult to imagine that his life in the embodied form of Gavin Creel is done.

[2:45] Laura Camien: But I recently learned from Laura Camien's Spark on Grief and Creativity that I could use my creativity to process this profound loss.

[2:55] Susan Blackwell: Yes. Now, I am, according to Maida Wagner's Five Creative Types. I made it. I am what we would call a sensitive soul. I use writing and sharing to order my lived experience, to get my arms around it, to see what shape it takes, to see what meaning I want to ascribe to it, and then hopefully ultimately to be of service to others who may be going through it.

[3:19] Laura Camien: So what I decided to make of it was this podcast episode. And I may make something else out of this in the future, but right now, first draft, it's going to take the form of this podcast episode.

[3:31] Susan Blackwell: And what a gift to us.

[3:33] Laura Camien: What a gift to all of us, Susan.

[3:35] Susan Blackwell: Fingers crossed.

[3:36] Laura Camien: So I want to dedicate this episode to the people who loved and lost Gavin, especially those folks who cared for him in his final days.

[3:45] Susan Blackwell: Laura, you know, my favorite quote of all time from our homeboy Ram Das, we are all just walking each other home. So I want to dedicate this and I want to thank those who walked Gavin home.

[4:02] Laura Camien: For this episode, in addition to contacting some folks who knew Gavin directly, I put out a call on social media that read, along with so many, I am grieving the loss of our beloved Gavin Creel. On the advice of the wise Laura Camien, I am processing my grief using my creativity, putting together an episode of our podcast, sharing some of the sparks of wisdom I learned from Gavin over the years.

[4:26] Susan Blackwell: For example, I learned the concept of hold on tightly, let go lightly from Gavin, which I think he was talking to a lot of performers about really committing to something, but when it's time to let it go, let it go. But it's actually a great lesson to lean on now as I process his transition from human light into actual light.

[5:02] Laura Camien: Did you learn something at a stage door or a party or on a street corner or a rooftop? I asked them to please leave a comment or direct message with any Gavin wisdom that they'd be willing to share with me and thus, all of you podcast listeners. And I said that they could remain anonymous, or I could cite my source. I concluded by saying thanks to everyone for sharing your stories, pictures, and videos about Gavin. It's the next best thing to having more time with him.

[5:31] Susan Blackwell: So, friend of the pod and one of Gavin's friends and collaborators, Angela Johnson, commented and said, You're right, Susan. He transitioned from human light to actual light.

[5:42] Laura Camien: That's right.

[5:43] Susan Blackwell: It's really hard. Can't say I'm processing it the best. I'm really sad, trying.

[5:50] Laura Camien: So I had just watched the recording of a special class that Gavin had done with our Illum group, just at the end of 2023. So I wrote back, my sweet Angela Johnson, I think we have to ask ourselves, WWGD. And you know what I think he'd say? Breathe and be present to all of it. Don't race to skip over the hard parts.

[6:16] Laura Camien: And Angela wrote back, WWGD. Amen. Here's to eternal love.

[6:24] Susan Blackwell: So I'm entitling this episode of the podcast, WWGD, short for What Would Gavin Do? And I'm just going to share some of the wisdom that we collectively absorbed from Gavin Creel as a performer, a teacher, a human. Essentially, I just want to explore what made that noodle so special.

[6:44] Laura Camien: And I share all of this with the caveat that Gavin was a whole dimensional person who contained multitudes. And I'm just going to be scratching the surface today.

[6:55] Susan Blackwell: And also I couldn't include everything that everyone shared because it was just like an avalanche of love. But I am so grateful to everyone who reached back.

[7:05] Laura Camien: So shall we get into it?

[7:08] Susan Blackwell: What a gift.

[7:09] Laura Camien: Susan, I just want to say like you and your process of healing is helping others heal, and I'm here for it. It's just such a beautiful thing.

[7:20] Susan Blackwell: I'm grateful to be part of it.

[7:22] Laura Camien: Thanks, Susan Blackwell. And I really hope that this helps, whether that's your healing or your growth. I think I really do believe that's what Gavin would have wanted.

[7:34] Susan Blackwell: Yep. So a few themes really began to emerge. The first being present.

[7:42] Laura Camien: Juliet Gray, who worked closely with Gavin at the Performing Arts Project, shared what I learned from Gavin over our years together was to be present in the moment. He had a genuine way of making people feel seen. When he spoke to you, it felt as if you were the only person in the room. Nothing else mattered. He was so curious about life and learning, so open and always striving to improve himself so he could give more to his fellow humans.

[8:11] Susan Blackwell: Jared Marshett Gertner, who co-starred with Gavin in Book of Mormon on the first national tour and London's West End shared, anyone who ever met Gav knew that when he would talk to you, he would make you feel like you were the only two people in the world. This was one of his many gifts. And Laura, you can attest, like he that Gavin Creel present.

[8:36] Laura Camien: Present, willing to go deep with you, see you, and I think you're gonna get into more of this, but it was for anyone and everyone.

[8:46] Susan Blackwell: It didn't feel like we were gonna get into that reserved for specials.

[8:50] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[8:50] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Specials. We call them specials. I think Tina Fey made that up.

[8:54] Laura Camien: I love that.

[8:54] Susan Blackwell: Oh, really?

[8:55] Laura Camien: Uh-huh. I feel that Gavin's presentness was coupled with his curiosity.

[9:03] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[9:04] Laura Camien: Juliet Gray, again from the Performing Arts Project, said, I saw him lean into people from all walks of life, giving so generously of his time and space, asking questions about their lives, offering ways to help them with whatever they were facing, sometimes even moments before he had to teach, catch a flight, face a crowd, or even perform. He truly authentically cared so deeply about others.

[9:31] Susan Blackwell: So there's something about that presentness coupled with that curiosity that I think is a real it really was part of that Gavin Creel recipe.

[9:43] Laura Camien: Yep. Now I want to share some things that people shared about being an artist, being a performer. Here's some wisdom that people collected from Gavin on that topic.

[9:55] Susan Blackwell: Sabrina, it's either Manjone, Mango. Sabrina, I apologize if I'm mispronouncing your last name. But Sabrina shared during one of the classes I took with him, he said, find your ideas in the sky. There's nothing interesting on the floor.

[10:13] Laura Camien: Sabrina says, I still think about that all the time. And I was like, what great advice for a performer. Great. Find your ideas in the sky. There ain't nothing interesting on the floor.

[10:24] Susan Blackwell: Kate Hurlihy, who attended TPAP, shared something she learned from Gavin. Great art is made in a mess. A lotus blooms in mud.

[10:33] Laura Camien: Which we love.

[10:34] Susan Blackwell: She loved. Oh my.

[10:36] Laura Camien: Macy Mathe shared something Gavin shared across a cafeteria table at the Performing Arts Project. The safest place to be is all the way in.

[10:46] Susan Blackwell: Oh wow.

[10:47] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[10:47] Susan Blackwell: Buckle up everybody.

[10:49] Laura Camien: They don't they only get richer.

[10:51] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[10:52] Laura Camien: Yes. Sarah Drebin shared that she was present in a class that Gavin taught on auditioning. And Gavin said, Auditioning should be approached like throwing a party. Own the room and warmly make those in the room feel welcome, comfortable, and relaxed, as if they're your guests.

[11:11] Susan Blackwell: Sarah said, I apply that to any performance. Fifteen years later, I still have a ritual to be reminded to throw a party every single time I perform.

[11:20] Laura Camien: I thought that was brilliant.

[11:22] Susan Blackwell: The beautiful Molly Hager, Broadway's Molly Hager said, during a conversation about mutual feelings of imposter syndrome, Gavin texted, this is happening to exactly the right person.

[11:35] Laura Camien: You and you don't have to pay for it. It is yours, and you can hold it fully with deserving ownership. Molly said, I try to remember that anytime I'm not feeling worthy. It goes along with something else he used to say, which was if it's meant for you, you can't miss it.

[11:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. And this is something I heard from several people. Heidi Blickenstaff shared that Gavin had said to her, if it's meant for you, you can't miss it. He also said, took her by the shoulders and said, You're Heidi motherfucking Blickenstaff. And she said sometimes she's like, even I can't, I can't fully embody it, but I almost believed it when Gavin said it to me. Kevin Forrestall shared that Gavin had taught him that it's okay to want something badly enough to feel hurt when it doesn't happen for you.

[12:25] Laura Camien: Oh. I'm gonna say that again because I think it's so fucking rad. It's okay to want something badly enough to feel hurt when it doesn't happen for you, but that you can't miss what's meant for you. Thank you for that, Kevin.

[12:40] Susan Blackwell: Oh, this is great. Kara Pacone said he came to NYU while I was there to do a master class, and it honestly just felt like he was hanging out with us more than anything. But he introduced me slash us to the phrase, other people's successes are not your failures. And he taught us about putting blinders on to not compare ourselves to others.

[13:05] Laura Camien: Yes. Holly Kelly shared Gavin's number one piece of advice to students was go to therapy. He is the reason I pursued finding a therapist.

[13:15] Susan Blackwell: Yes. And now I'd like to share something from the wonderful Broadway film television actor Susie Meisner. Susie Meisner shared this.

[13:37] Laura Camien: And I think that's really applicable for Gav deeply so, because I think he was always in search of something bigger than himself. When he would collaborate, he would model like what it is to dig deep inside of yourself and wrestle with the darkest parts of yourself and get curious about them. And then push the boundaries of who you think you are and inspire his collaborators to do the same so that he could, you know, meet them in the middle and make something bigger than both of them.

[14:21] Susan Blackwell: Um he did the same with his students. There was no one better than meeting a student where they were and saying, I see you, and yes, and what's more, how much more of you is there so that we can make something so big that it would be for the universe, because I do think that was deeply important to Gav. And he did it for his friends too, you know, whether that was through humor or um a lot of humor or silence or connecting in nature or cooking, he was constantly looking for that cord that connected us to the largest parts of ourselves, and then he had the courage to share it, and I think that is an extraordinary thing.

[15:27] Laura Camien: So that's one thing that I learned, and I will continue to carry forevermore. A person who did not miss it and lived so profoundly consciously.

[15:48] Susan Blackwell: All right, I love you, girl. Now I'd like to talk about how Gavin lived and modeled showing up for others. Now I told you how I let Gavin know I was doing that musical and that I was doing my best with the singing, and he wrote back this beautiful, beautiful email about how about my singing. And I was like, um, Gavin, I'm gonna tape that to my dressing room mirror.

[16:16] Laura Camien: And like three days later, there was a lifetime supply of scotch tape on my doorstep. I love that story.

[16:23] Susan Blackwell: I love it. Um, I want to share a few more stories. Julie Garnier shared a story about how she'd been in New York for about a year, and Seth Rodetsky had asked her to be in the ensemble of an actor's fund benefit for the concert of Hair. It was a one-night only benefit. They did it at the beautiful new Amsterdam Theater, and the cast was incredible. Adina Menzel, Raul Esparza, Gavin was in it, RuPaul was in it.

[16:47] Laura Camien: Wow.

[16:47] Susan Blackwell: And Adina had just won the Tony for playing Alphabah, and Adina was meant to be singing the 11 o'clock number, which was uh the number walking in space. And the ensemble was going to be singing behind her, and the dance ensemble was going to be taking off their clothes while being lowered into the pit on a hydraulic lift. I mean, it was gonna be like a big wow smoke in production number.

[17:11] Laura Camien: So a couple days before they were gonna do it, Seth asked if uh if Julie wouldn't mind just taking a look at the song because um Adina hadn't shown up to any of the rehearsals yet because she was shooting a TV show.

[17:24] Susan Blackwell: She's not a flake, she was shooting a TV show. She was very busy, yeah, and so she didn't come to any of the rehearsals. And so Seth was like, just take a look at it in case she gets stuck on set.

[17:35] Laura Camien: And Julie was like, it's not gonna happen.

[17:37] Susan Blackwell: And they had the orchestra rehearsal that afternoon, and Julie didn't sing it with the orchestra at the rehearsal, kind of glanced at it. She was like, it's gonna be mine. She'll be here by the evening. Uh, and then Julie went out to dinner with a few people, came back to the theater, and Seth and the choreographer, Christopher Gately came running up to her, and they were like, You're going on. She's not coming, you're going on.

[18:02] Laura Camien: And Julie had to learn the song and had to take a little break to have a panic attack.

[18:09] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh. So Julie's having this panic attack. They get through the first act. She gets backstage. She's kind of losing her mind.

[18:19] Laura Camien: And she was really freaking out. And Gavin and Annie Golden and Raul came up to her and were trying to calm her down, ease her nerves.

[18:30] Susan Blackwell: And she was fucking freaked out. And Gavin was like, You're gonna be okay. And he's like, let's run.

[18:36] Laura Camien: And she was like, What?

[18:39] Susan Blackwell: And he was like, let's run. And they ran up and down the stairs, flights and flights of stairs in this Broadway theater, until Julie was like knocked out of her panic attack.

[18:53] Laura Camien: She was laughing.

[18:54] Susan Blackwell: And essentially, Gavin had helped her to get out of her own way.

[19:00] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[19:00] Susan Blackwell: So there he is with that twinkle in his eye. She's out of breath, feeling 1,000 times better. And he was like, see, you just had to get out of your own way. Julie said, I was a no-name. I didn't even have an agent. I had nothing. And this is something I have taken with me throughout my entire career. Getting out of your own way and just living in it.

[19:21] Laura Camien: Wow. Thank you for that story, Julie.

[19:23] Susan Blackwell: Oh. Here's another story about showing up for others, courtesy of Beanie Feldstein.

[19:32] Beanie Feldstein: Hi, Susan, it's Beanie. Um, I hope you can hear me. I'm on the streets of Midtown. Um I think Gavin taught me every second of every day. He was a pillar in our community, in our company, in my heart, in my life. Um, but the thing that comes to mind most with Gavin, I think is really fucking showing up for people in action.

[20:04] Laura Camien: Um our first couple weeks of rehearsal, I'd had a really tough day. Just felt very beaten down and like I didn't know if I could do it. And Gavin could clearly see that. I didn't say anything, but I he could feel it because he was so intuitive. And he came up to me, he grabbed my hand, he said, I'm walking you home. Where do you live? I'm walking you home. And he walked me all the way home.

[20:36] Beanie Feldstein: And in that time we had a conversation that I will cherish every minute of my life. But it was it was the being unafraid to see that someone needs something and just jumping in. I think so often in grief in life and pain and in all of it, we're afraid to say the wrong thing, afraid to do the wrong thing, and then it just leads to inaction.

[21:02] Laura Camien: And Gav was the opposite of that.

[21:04] Beanie Feldstein: He always jumped in. He always sought out to help someone, and he wasn't afraid to just try to help. And I he always succeeded. But I think in this life, we're often so afraid of doing the wrong thing that we just don't do anything. And I am hoping and trying and pleading to carry his unbelievable intuition of when to help people for the rest of my life.

[21:37] Laura Camien: All right.

[21:45] Beanie Feldstein: That activism. Let's talk about that activism.

[21:48] Laura Camien: Wow.

[21:49] Beanie Feldstein: Yeah. So Paul Oakley Stovel wrote, Here's what I learned from Gavin. I was guest editor at large on the premiere issue of a short-lived magazine. It was a monumental task, and I made sure everyone around me knew how hard I was working and how important this work was.

[22:07] Laura Camien: Laughing, crying emojis, laughing crying emojis.

[22:10] Beanie Feldstein: The issue of being an out actor was in the news a lot in those days. Would it kill your career? Would you be able to believably play a straight character? So I got the idea to do a cheeky photo shoot without actors and iconically heteronormative theater roles. We needed a Stanley Kowalski from Streetcar. Gavin had recently come out professionally, and I went after him and he did it.

[22:34] Laura Camien: What he also did when he showed up to the photo shoot was quietly and simply disarm me with his preparedness, kindness, and humor. He taught me that your activism can be quiet and powerful.

[22:49] Beanie Feldstein: Get to the point and keep it moving. Don't shine a light on what you're doing, just do it. And for God's sakes, have fun.

[22:57] Laura Camien: Jen Waldman, the great New York acting teacher and activist, shared one thing I learned from Gavin nothing's a problem, and everything is possible.

[23:07] Laura Camien: So Gavin, along with Rory O'Malley and Jenny Canilos had just started Broadway Impact, fighting for marriage equality.

[23:16] Laura Camien: And they were partnering with Jen Waldman's group called For Good Productions on this giant benefit.

[23:23] Laura Camien: It was a massive undertaking at the Gershwin Theater with 300 performers on stage.

[23:29] Laura Camien: And Jen said, Gavin was calmness amidst the chaos, and his whole vibe was nothing's a problem, everything is possible.

[23:40] Laura Camien: So consider tucking that into your activism.

[23:45] Laura Camien: Oh another, I think, really, really, really important part of Gavin and his wisdom is these are my words, but he really embodied a no one is above me, no one is below me approach to people.

[24:03] Laura Camien: A non-hierarchical approach to people.

[24:07] Laura Camien: Again, Jared Marshick Gertner said, Gavin and I led the first national company and London Company of the Book of Mormon.

[24:15] Laura Camien: I say led the company because that is what I learned from him how to truly lead.

[24:20] Laura Camien: He walked around the building before every performance to make sure he connected with everyone before the show started.

[24:27] Laura Camien: He brought only positive energy to the building every day.

[24:31] Laura Camien: He made sure that everyone in the building felt seen and respected.

[24:36] Laura Camien: Gav would check in with the front of house staff, the crew, with management, with musicians, and he brought me along for all of this, letting me lead with him, guiding the way for me so that I could become a better version of myself and the co-leader that the company needed, unselfishly sharing the spotlight and the love.

[24:56] Laura Camien: I will never be okay with him being gone, but I carry him with me in everything I do.

[25:03] Laura Camien: Gosh, that relates back to that first one of like being so pre so many of these.

[25:09] Laura Camien: I see this theme of like being so present for other people that you're not making everything about yourself.

[25:18] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[25:19] Susan Blackwell: And you, you know, the star of the show, everyone, you can operate as though guess what? I'm here, I'm here now.

[25:24] Susan Blackwell: The show can go on because I'm the most important person in the in the space.

[25:30] Susan Blackwell: And he behaved the opposite.

[25:32] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[25:33] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[25:34] Laura Camien: Mariah Grandy co-signs on this.

[25:36] Laura Camien: Mariah Grandy, great, great performer, great vocalist, great member of the Spark File.

[25:42] Laura Camien: Mariah toured with Gavin in Into the Woods, and she shared something we bonded over.

[25:49] Laura Camien: It was important to both of us to learn everybody's name on every show that we did, not just the cast, not just the creative team, every single member of the crew.

[25:58] Laura Camien: And Gavin also did that in every touring house that we were in.

[26:03] Laura Camien: Gavin made a point of learning everybody's name and referring to them by name as often as possible.

[26:09] Laura Camien: It's such a small kindness, but it is so humane and affirming.

[26:13] Laura Camien: And that's one thing that we shared that sense of everybody is worth having their name said to them correctly.

[26:23] Susan Blackwell: Thank you for that, Mariah.

[26:25] Susan Blackwell: Yes, yes, yes.

[26:27] Laura Camien: Another really, really important part of Gavin was his playfulness.

[26:35] Laura Camien: Deborah Craig described Gavin as a hot golden retriever puppy, just full of zest and life.

[26:41] Laura Camien: A little wild.

[26:43] Laura Camien: And he was he was really, really playful.

[26:46] Laura Camien: Kate Baldwin shared these words.

[26:52] Laura Camien: Gavin and I had a an agreement during Hello Dolly that if either of us couldn't sing anymore, either because we lost our lyrics or failed to make an entrance or uh got sick, that we would have each other's back and we would say the words or sing for our partner, our other person.

[27:13] Laura Camien: And lo and behold, that happened.

[27:15] Laura Camien: Um during our our only duet at the end of the show called It Only Takes a Moment, which is uh such a beautiful, beautiful song, uh during one matinee.

[27:27] Laura Camien: My voice just decided to leave, and he sang both his part and my part while I just stood there holding his hands and uh leaking out of my downstage eye.

[27:41] Laura Camien: I just started crying, and then gently he just brushed the tear away from my face.

[27:46] Laura Camien: I was so uh I was pretending I wasn't sick, but I was really sick and sort of uh powering through, and he knew.

[27:55] Laura Camien: And um guy I went home after the show, and uh my understudy lovely, lovely Annalisa Lemming went on for the evening show.

[28:04] Laura Camien: But that moment of him just looking at me, understanding and nodding and saying, I got you, and just miraculously somehow singing both parts.

[28:13] Laura Camien: I don't know how he did it, but he did.

[28:15] Laura Camien: He sang both parts.

[28:17] Laura Camien: Um and then treating me with such um delicate kindness uh in that moment.

[28:25] Laura Camien: Um and not and not being scared and just being brave and saying and holding my hand.

[28:30] Laura Camien: Amazing.

[28:31] Laura Camien: Then there was another moment uh where something similar could have happened and yet it didn't.

[28:38] Laura Camien: Um when Bernadette Peters came into the show as a replacement for Bet Midler, uh, we had rehearsals with her, and then uh a put in, and then um, which feels odd to say that you put Bernadette Peters into the show, which is weird.

[28:57] Laura Camien: Um, but when we got to our very first performance, I sort of had an out-of-body experience because Bernadette Peters is the person that I grew up listening to and loving.

[29:08] Laura Camien: And so all of a sudden, uh my my my spirit left my body because I realized I was on stage with my childhood idol, and I uh froze.

[29:18] Laura Camien: And she there was a bit of blocking where she put her hands on my shoulders, she turned me towards Gavin, and I was to sing my line in dancing, the song Dancing.

[29:28] Laura Camien: Uh, and I forgot my words because Bernadette Peters had touched me on the shoulders.

[29:33] Laura Camien: It sounds lame, but I hope you can relate.

[29:36] Laura Camien: Um so I just I sang gibberish.

[29:39] Laura Camien: I went to and he his eyebrows went into his hairline.

[29:46] Laura Camien: The the ray of joy that came out of his face because I was going up.

[29:54] Laura Camien: Um was infectious, and we both started giggling so hard, and he did not honor our agreement and come in with my words because he was laughing too hard at me.

[30:06] Laura Camien: We all left.

[30:07] Laura Camien: We all left.

[30:09] Laura Camien: Um, I love ya.

[30:11] Laura Camien: Okay, thanks, Susan.

[30:13] Laura Camien: Bye.

[30:16] Susan Blackwell: Thank you so much for that, Kate.

[30:20] Susan Blackwell: When we're talking about Gavin Creel, we're talking about Gavin Creel's wisdom.

[30:24] Susan Blackwell: We have to talk about the power of self-acceptance.

[30:28] Laura Camien: Luke Witt wrote, When I was in my teen years and struggling with my sexuality and thinking I would have to hide that part of myself to ever be a professional performer, seeing someone like Gavin live so authentically and proudly of who he was showed me it was okay to be proud of who I was and to love myself.

[30:45] Laura Camien: I sadly never got to meet him or see him perform live, but he still taught me about love.

[30:51] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[30:51] Susan Blackwell: And I know I'm not alone in this.

[30:53] Laura Camien: The last 24 hours, I have seen so many other queer and gay performers posting the same thing.

[31:00] Susan Blackwell: Luke, I know that's right.

[31:01] Susan Blackwell: Thank you for sharing that.

[31:03] Laura Camien: And just to co-sign on it, Jonathan Groff texted me this.

[31:08] Laura Camien: Gavin taught me the life-changing power of opening up your heart to love.

[31:13] Laura Camien: A romantic relationship changed the course of my life forever.

[31:17] Laura Camien: Even though I had come out as gay to my friends and my family in 2008, I still felt deep shame.

[31:25] Laura Camien: I had worshipped him for years as a performer, but when I got to know him as a person in 2009, and the channel of love opened up between us, he gave me the gift of an all-consuming passion, and my soul bloomed.

[31:41] Laura Camien: Public displays of affection used to make my whole body tense, and suddenly I was all over Gavin on street corners without giving it a second thought.

[31:50] Laura Camien: Films, poetry, music, art, all of it came into focus.

[31:55] Laura Camien: But it was his activism that shook me to the core.

[31:59] Laura Camien: He monologued with such purity and honesty about equality, rooted in his own struggles with his identity.

[32:06] Laura Camien: He organized the Broadway Impact trip to the marriage equality march in DC.

[32:12] Laura Camien: I will never forget a specific moment of looking over at his shining face with the purity of his heart beaming out of his eyes.

[32:21] Laura Camien: The powerful light he radiated completely possessed me and snapped me into evolution.

[32:27] Laura Camien: I turned from looking at him and immediately came out of the closet publicly.

[32:46] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[32:47] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[32:47] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[32:50] Laura Camien: Here's a different take on that power of acceptance that Gavin embodied.

[32:56] Laura Camien: Heather Mieko Lackey shared in October of 2023, our musical theater class of 1998 had our 25th reunion in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

[33:06] Laura Camien: Fifteen of the 20 from our graduating class were able to go to our reunion.

[33:11] Laura Camien: Gavin was a driving force in keeping us all together.

[33:15] Laura Camien: At our last reunion, Gavin and I were talking about aging.

[33:18] Laura Camien: It's something I've really been having a hard time with.

[33:21] Laura Camien: My physical appearance is something I've struggled with my whole life, and getting older and saggier and wrinklier does not help.

[33:28] Laura Camien: He told me he had decided to stop comparing himself to his 25-year-old self, and that when he looks in the mirror each day, he says, Looking good, kid.

[33:38] Laura Camien: In December, I was texting with him and I said, Your words about feeling good about yourself really stuck with me and not comparing ourselves with our 25-year-old selves.

[33:47] Laura Camien: And he wrote back, let her go.

[33:51] Laura Camien: Oh.

[33:52] Laura Camien: This is the one that matters now.

[33:54] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[33:55] Laura Camien: Those few words had such a profound impact on me.

[33:59] Laura Camien: Since I posted this on Facebook, I've gotten calls, texts, and comments on the post about how his kind words helped them to.

[34:07] Laura Camien: I hope we can all look in the mirror and say, looking good, kid.

[34:12] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[34:15] Susan Blackwell: Love that.

[34:16] Susan Blackwell: And I'm so thankful for Heather sharing that.

[34:19] Laura Camien: Yes.

[34:20] Laura Camien: And while we're talking about loving ourselves, let's talk about love.

[34:23] Laura Camien: This is an anonymous share.

[34:26] Laura Camien: I got to know Gav when he got his lake house in 2019.

[34:30] Laura Camien: I was having a really hard time in a relationship, and Gavin used to sit with me in his kitchen and listen to me talk through what was happening, sometimes for hours.

[34:38] Beanie Feldstein: He would make us Midwestern medicine, which is a tin roof Sunday that his mom made for him growing up. Ice cream, chocolate sauce, and dry roasted peanuts. It's one of my favorites. One day he said something that changed my life. Love is not a feeling, love is a doing. He had learned that being loved by someone is the things they do for you, to you, around you, not a feeling they say that they have. And loving someone back is a behavior. It now guided all of his relationships and helped me guide mine. I'm so struck how Gavin clearly meant what he said. He was generous and nurtured so many. He actively loved them and they felt that. And more on the topic of love from the co-founder of the Performing Arts Project, Jonathan Bernstein.

[35:35] Jonathan Bernstein: The thing that I take almost above all else from Gavin is his um brazen uh willingness to embrace full stop to embrace literally to actually he was a very tactile guy. And um I think in a lot of ways he taught me how to hug, like just really hug and touch and um and greet and say goodbye. Uh those were important things to him. Uh and he did them with a lot of uh vigor. Um and and in so doing, he had a kind of uh very um monumental wingspan. And I mean that literally actually. Uh he had an incredibly like long arms and fingers, and he just sort of, you know, often was seen to be stretched out, embracing East and West, um, in such gloriously unself-conscious ways. And uh I hope, I hope that among the many things that I've um learned from him is that is the uh necessity of moving your elbows away from your ribcage. Um and my elbows can often be found tethered to my rib cage. Um, but uh knowing him, um I would think that they are more seldom to be found where they used to be, and I'm able to uh reach out.

[37:28] Beanie Feldstein: Thank you for those words, Jonathan. Here's a few words from a friend of the podcast on the topic of gratitude, which I think was another one of the dimensions of Gavin Creel. Take it away, Lynn Manuel Miranda.

[37:47] Lin-Manuel Miranda: Hi, Susan, it's Lynn. Um when I look back on my text messages with Gavin over the years, stretching back as far as my text messages go, what I see over and over again is gratitude. I don't think there's an unkind word in the entire text thread going back a decade when we first met when he was on Hair um with so many good friends of ours, like uh Groff and K.O. and and Swenson. And um he never failed to take a moment to remind me um how grateful I should be and we should be for actually getting to do the thing we love for a living. One of my favorite he would always send me anytime you saw anyone singing Hamilton, he would send it to me. Um, or anything I was doing. Um, I'm gonna send you a video of him.

He was walking by a school and heard these kids uh singing My Shot. Um first is the video of him just freaking out that it's happening, uh, and then is a video of him being like what's your name? I'm gonna send this to Lynn. Lynn's a friend of mine. Really? Yeah, I promise. I just got a video of you guys. Tony. Oh, Harrison. I'm Isabella. I'm just walking down the street, Lynn. And you just get out of school today? Yeah. And they're fucking singing Hamilton. You're changing the world, man. Like, say hi. I'll send this video to him. Um, and them freaking out, uh, and him going, You're changing the world, man. Um, because that's he he just kind of was generosity and collaboration personified. That is totally the kind of adventure that would just take him on a detour through his day.

Uh, a text to a friend, and let me freak these kids out and let them know that their dreams are a lot closer than they think they are. Um, so uh I I will try to take that gratitude with me. Um, even though I will miss him every day of my life, like the rest of us. Love you.

[40:03] Beanie Feldstein: Thank you for that, Lynn. A few last gems of wisdom from Gavin. Jordan wrote, Hi Susan, I'm from Australia, but was living in London when Hair was playing. Gavin did some side gigs in London, and the first was his solo show, but the whole Hair cast were there. It sold out, so Gav and the cast did a mini show outside for those who missed out. At one stage, he asked the crowd to close our eyes for just 10 seconds to give something back to the universe and bless those we love. I've been trying to do that a lot this week. Thanks, Jordan.

[40:42] Beanie Feldstein: Thank you for that, Jordan. Taylor Trench, whom Gavin co-starred with in Hello Dolly wrote, What did I learn from Gavin? My gosh, so many things. The importance of seeking joy and creating a little stockpile of it in your heart because pain comes for all of us, and it's easier to face when you're prepared with an antidote. That and the power of a perfectly timed fart.

[41:13] Beanie Feldstein: Thank you for that, Taylor. Oh gosh. In conclusion, speaking with the great acting teacher Jen Waldman, Jen shared that her students were grieving that they'd never have the opportunity to work with Gavin. And because I was in the midst of preparing for this episode, and I've been soaking in the glory of Gavin Creel, I said, that's true. But if they did want to get closer to the Gavin of it all, they can embody all of those qualities that made him so remarkable. His kindness, his curiosity, his gratitude, his nobody is above me, nobody is below me, his warmth, his playfulness, his intelligence, his lifelong learning. We can embody, we can embody all of those elements, and we can be that for ourselves. And I think we can be that for each other. And that is my spark.

[42:30] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[42:33] Susan Blackwell: Oh Susie B. Thank you, Laura. That was beautiful. Um I'm I'm just really grateful that you put that call out and you gave everyone the opportunity to tell their stories and for to everyone who did send in their stories to you so that we could all take part and all you know continue to learn from Gavin. It means a lot.

[42:57] Laura Camien: Yeah yeah one of my I don't have many regrets in life but one of my regrets is that for years literally years I've been talking with Gavin about making something together and I mean it's throughout all of our emails with each other I remember so clearly when we went to see Hello Dolly being backstage with Gavin and Taylor Trench and being like hey like you would you guys want to do something and they were like name it and when leads to way and we were busy with our own projects and lives and I lost that opportunity but even in my regret I'm like WWGD what would Gavin do?

[43:47] Susan Blackwell: That's right. And so I got some work to do on that.

[43:52] Laura Camien: Yeah, that's right.

[43:54] Susan Blackwell: I mean, yeah. It yeah.

[43:56] Laura Camien: So, friends, yes.

[44:00] Susan Blackwell: That's it. This episode of The Spark File was made on the lands of the Lenape and the Mohican people. And as always, we hope that it put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or you'd like to learn more about how to coach with us to accomplish your creative goals, you can email us at getcreative@thesparkfile.com or reach us through our website, thesparkfile.com. We'll even happily take your feedback.

[44:29] Laura Camien: But you know the price of admission. First, you need to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[44:36] Susan Blackwell: You can follow us on social at The Sparkfile. And we hope that you'll subscribe, rate, and five-star review of this podcast. It really, really helps other listeners to find us.

[44:45] Laura Camien: Also, if you liked this podcast, if you think it would be of service to others, if you think it would be healing to others, we hope that you'll share it with people that you love.

[44:54] Susan Blackwell: And if you didn't like it, I don't even know what to say to you. Life is too short.

[44:58] Laura Camien: Yeah, baby. On the other hand, if something lights you up and you are inspired by the wisdom of Gavin Creel, we're writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[45:14] Susan Blackwell: It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

[45:19] Laura Camien: You know, you gotta take it and make it.

[45:23] Susan Blackwell: Take it away, Gavin.

[45:25] Gavin Creel: When I boped into something that inspires me, dump it in the spark files. Spark could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I'll pump it in the spark files. Spark file. I jump into my spark file. Let's open up the spark fire.

[45:55] Beanie Feldstein: That's the one.