This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of CATS. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. We are working with the Perelman Performing Arts Center reimagined production of CATS called CATS: The Jellicle Ball to bring you a series of episodes throughout the run. I am honored to have Baby here with me today. Baby's ballroom dancing brings a whole new element to Victoria, and I cannot wait to hear about it. So welcome, Baby. Thank you for joining me.

[0:37] Baby: Thank you for having me.

[0:41] Mike Abrams: I was excited to have you on because I sat so front row, and I was really curious how they were going to do Victoria, like how you're going to handle—like there's those moments that Victoria is known for for dancing, and you came out, and I was like, okay, I get it. I loved how you brought the ballroom element to Victoria, and it was very clear you were Victoria right away. So I want to get to that, but I want to start with your CATS knowledge. So when you booked this show, how much did you know about CATS before?

[1:10] Baby: I knew very little about CATS. So my only knowledge of CATS was from—I went to LaGuardia High School. I was in the drama program, and one of my teachers had been in the Broadway production of CATS at some point. So that was like his thing that he would always talk about. He would always talk about "Memory." You know, that was like, I think, something that was really important to him in his career.

[1:36] Mike Abrams: Is this Lee?

[1:37] Baby: Yes. I've had—okay, Lee strikes again. I've had Lee on the show before.

[1:44] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[1:45] Baby: Yeah. Lee is a teacher, and he's had a few other people do CATS from his classes over the years too. And yeah, that is—I don't know, what a small world.

[1:55] Baby: Yeah. So that was my knowledge of it. And then going into the audition, which was in 2022 for the first workshop, I had strayed away from theater after high school and was focusing on dance, becoming a commercial dancer and falling into ballroom, joining Omari's House. And so the first thing that I ever heard from CATS besides "Memory," because that's a classic song that if you know theater, everyone knows that song. But the first song from CATS that I heard was at the audition, and it was the Overture.

[2:34] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[2:35] Baby: With crashes added.

[2:39] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[2:42] Baby: Wow. So, okay. So you had—obviously, you had a teacher who did it, and that was a big part of their teaching because I've heard a little bit about Lee's history with that. But it's just "Memory." And so you come in, and this has been a two-year journey to get this onto the stage. And so you get to hear that, but you hear the updated music. Wow, that's such a fun way of—didn't know much. So how much did you know anything about Victoria? Or was that from scratch?

[3:10] Baby: I didn't know anything about Victoria. I learned about Victoria from, obviously, when I booked the gig, I watched the London production that's on YouTube. And I didn't even see the movie until earlier this year.

[3:27] Mike Abrams: Okay. So what was told to you about Victoria's backstory? Because I do think the version that's the revival or that you saw on YouTube is very different than the version you performed.

[3:39] Baby: Definitely. So the backstory that I was told about, and just consensus from watching it, was that she is a very virginal cat. And the solo, her solo in the beginning, was her losing her virginity, metaphorically. So that was my knowledge of Victoria. But I knew from jump that I wasn't going to play it like that. Because in this world, right, it's a ballroom story. And Victoria, being the white cat, is kind of funny in the way that if you're a white person in ballroom, you're a guest or, you know, like ballroom was created for black and brown LGBTQ people. And so I turned it more into that.

[4:38] Mike Abrams: Yeah, interesting.

[4:40] Baby: Yeah. And so I'm from Queens, I grew up in Rockaway. And my category in ballroom is women's performance. And there's a lot of fabulous women's performance in ballroom. You know, some people with dance backgrounds, some people just, you know, have gay friends and join ballroom organically through that route. But I knew I was going to bring more of myself to Victoria to kind of stamp that into this specific history of CATS that we created.

[5:14] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that's a really interesting parallel. Because Victoria normally is almost the conduit as the narrator—like not the narrator in the Monkishtrap sense, but a narrator of like a lot of like the new movie, the 2019 kind of disaster of a movie. Victoria is the eyes of that movie. And it is like a lot of times, Victoria is the fresh perspective of the young virginal cat, as you said, coming in. So there's an interesting parallel of, as you said, in ballroom being a guest as like the white person, the white cat. How much did you talk about that? Is that something that you kind of brought in to portray as Victoria? Or was that something that was part of the workshop that you kind of figured out as you went?

[5:57] Baby: So for this production, since it was so ballroom oriented, I felt like I was kind of a source for a lot of people. And there wasn't a lot of discussion about my character because it was almost like, you know, me, Primo, Silk, Junior, Chastity, and Deva were like really the core people that come from the ballroom community. So when we were building the story, the eyes would like turn to us and be like, well, what does this mean in the ballroom context? So I guess it was a fresh perspective in the sense of we're bringing this new thing to CATS, but it's just through a different lens. You know what I mean?

[6:38] Mike Abrams: Yeah, definitely. I think that's what makes it so brilliant and so great is that as someone who—like just being in the crowd, there was a mix between a ballroom group that was there that is there because of the ballroom element, and then the theater group, and then people who just have heard how amazing it is that are there for the energy and the experience. And I feel like your cast had a similar sense of—you have a mix of theater background, ballroom background, everything in between, and you were able to kind of like merge these worlds together so beautifully.

[7:12] Baby: And so I've been fascinated by the process of you being able to kind of come and say like, okay, this would never happen in the ballroom scene, or this would be how it'd be portrayed, but then also still find those elements to keep it—like at its core, it's still CATS. And that's what almost surprised me in a really good way is I was like, wow, this is still CATS, like completely still CATS. But with all these elements, I was not expecting or learned about. So can you talk a little bit about, as you mentioned, being able to bring in some of that ballroom elements, not just of the dance, but also the history and some of those experiences, because it's very clear how well it's mixed into the story. And that all had to have come from you all being able to share your real-life experiences.

[7:57] Baby: Right. So you obviously know more about CATS than I do. But my take on it is it's kind of a story of identity within community. And ballroom is all about identity, creating a name for yourself in a world that doesn't want you to have that name or to have that title. So to me, the story of CATS is a ballroom story. Like, it truly is. And we found more of that as we went on, even in the language of like Gus is saying, "I knew how to gag." There were so many moments where the perils were too easy and too good to be true. And then obviously there were some moments like in "Skimbleshanks," for example, we're all waiting for Skimbleshanks to get to the ball so she could walk the ball. In ballroom, that would never happen.

You're not waiting for anybody to get to the ball. But then, you know, between the conversations, it was like, okay, some truth of ballroom must be sacrificed for the legitimacy of the musical element of the story. And then we all built that together. We all had an agreement that, you know, we're building a new story from both of these things.

[9:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. It's like you're paying some homage to both sides, but it's never going to be perfect on either side because otherwise you can't merge the two worlds together, even with how well it overlaps. Like, as you said, it overlaps really perfectly. Like, I had always joked that I thought this was a singing competition on drugs. And so there is that like competition element that you can fit in really perfectly into like all the different houses and the different styles. Like it fits a community, a tribe really, really well. And so I've loved—like, that's why I've loved this production so much is when I heard about it, I was like, this fits so well. And then to see the execution of it is amazing.

And it's so clear that you have so many different people coming to collaborate because you've been able to do that by bringing all those elements, including like, I think it's the moments of happiness. Like that was a part I wasn't expecting. And it was so beautiful to learn as someone who didn't know as much about the community, to learn a lot about the history of that and to see some of that in, you know, outside the theater and during the show, as someone like I was watching it from the cat standpoint. I'm like, all right, what's coming out here? And I learned a lot about the other side. I want to hear a little bit from you about being already in the houses, like the house element, because the CATS kind of world is the Jellicles are the Jellicles, but it does feel like they have their own little groups.

Like there's a couple that kind of migrate together and a couple that are a little bit more together that does feel kind of houses. And so can you talk a little bit about the house component, just in general in ballroom, but also with you coming from Omari's house and Omari helping, you know, being one of the two choreographers, how your houses maybe influence on some of the choreography that people see when they come to see the show?

[10:59] Baby: Of course, in the Jellicle Ball, you have the House of Dots, which is me, Victoria, Tumble, Brutus, Jenny Annie Dots, and Cassandra.

[11:10] Mike Abrams: Okay, so you're in the House of Dots.

[11:12] Baby: I'm in the House of Dots, yes. And then we have the House of Macavity, which is Macavity, Bombalurina, and Demeter. And we have the House of Larceny, which was made up by Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer.

[11:27] Mike Abrams: I love it. I love it.

[11:28] Baby: So yeah, those are like the three houses that we created in the show to make it like that authentic element. But the House of Oricci, the house that Omari created, which was the house that I joined in 2019, is very parallel to the House of Dots, in the sense that Omari was the founding father. Jenny Annie Dots is the founding mother of the House of Dots. And she's a mother down, like she takes care of her children, she makes sure they're ready for the ball, she makes sure they have everything they need. That is Omari. That is what Omari has always done for me. And, um, but Jenny Annie Dots, if you could tell in the Jellicle Ball, for example, when she dances and she gets down, it's like Omari will get down if he needs to get down, you know, like, he will step onto the floor and give you that performance. He has that fire in him.

[12:21] Baby: So whenever I think about the House of Dots, I think about the House of Oricci.

[12:26] Mike Abrams: Does Omari, like, say that that is very much the parallel? Or is that just something that you're kind of picking up along the way?

[12:30] Baby: That's just something that we picked up along the way. And, um, but in terms of the choreography, what I will say is, the ballroom people in the show were very...

[12:46] Baby: Crucial in the building of the show. So there was a choreography that was set, but voguing is a freestyle dance. So we would be in the studio trying stuff, and then Omari and Arturo would be like, oh, that looks great. Stick that. So I think the freestyle element is also what helped make the show seem really authentic, because we were really bringing ourselves and our own specific dance styles into it, into the rehearsal room.

[13:14] Mike Abrams: I'd love to hear a little bit more about the choreography, because that was one thing I was a little, not worried about, but the CATS choreography is either Gillian Lynn or Andy Blankenbuehler. You know, it's like these very, very famous choreographers. And there's this, like, how do you, like, there are people, CATS super fans, that they are very traditional, like, if you're not doing Gillian Lynn's choreography, that's not CATS. And a lot of those people have come and loved your production, which is great. But I'm curious of how much did you, like, I thought the choreography was amazing, because there were so many things, I'm like, I don't, I didn't think a human could physically do this. And it's all the ballroom elements. But how much of it do you get to freestyle versus how much is very much trying to pay a little respects to the Gillian Lynn and some of the other choreography that was there that's been, you know, CATS has been around for 45 years?

[14:06] Baby: Yeah, I don't want to completely parallel the choreography in this show to Gillian Lynn. Because I feel like it's just a completely different thing in my head. And it's no disrespect. I love the original CATS choreography. I really do. But for this, we had to, first of all, teach the musical theater people an entire language, an entire culture, which is ballroom and voguing and the movement that is within that, which is feline in a different way. Which we, Omari and Arturo kept it feline, which I think is the parallel between Gillian and them. But with ballroom, the feline turns into more of like, like, pussy, like, can I say that? Yeah. It turns into like a pussy, like, pussy extravaganza, like with more demure movements and like the bend of the wrist, which we do at the end.

That was the homage, I guess, to the original. But then the freestyle moments. Anytime you see me, Deva, or Primo doing a dip in the show, like in the Jellicle Ball, you know, we have that section where Primo dips, I dip, Deva dips. That's different every night. So we do have moments like that, too. And then even in the Jellicle poem, where we're saying Jellicle cats are black and white, and we're all kind of doing like a small movement. This was movement that each actor kind of created themselves, either created themselves or was assisted by Omari and Arturo to really step into their character, their ballroom character, right? Because in this version, cats is a metaphor for your ballroom persona. And so that's, that's as, you know, as fierce as you want to be, or as realness, like as thug as you want to be, or something like that.

[16:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's really so interesting, because you can tell, I was also at a preview. So I was really early in your production, I want to come back where I think some things are maybe now fully finalized. But there are moments I was like, well, the bows, you probably can kind of do different than every night. But there are also some areas where it does feel like this can't change, and this could change. And so it's really cool to hear how you get to almost bring, which is what the cats would do, like your own version of today, this is how you feel today, within the idea of like, this is the way Victoria is supposed to be in general. So I've kind of loved all those moments. And I do think it brings an energy to the audience and to the crowd that, not that doesn't exist in the other productions and other versions, but it's just a different type of audio, like energy, like you're very much in a, it's a little less interactive, like there are moments, but you're in a theater sitting there kind of looking forward. Whereas, at least for me being at a cabaret table, there you were behind me, you were right in my face. You were at the ball.

[17:15] Baby: Yeah, you are in the show. And so that made it really also kind of super interesting. I want to say one more thing about choreo, because there was one, there was actually one Gillian Lynn reference, where Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer do that cartwheel thing. And in our version, we wanted to keep that. But since it was tag team performance, and Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer end up losing, we had Primo and I do it.

[17:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[17:45] Baby: Like as a homage, but as a, like, this is a different story. So I like that part.

[17:51] Mike Abrams: It is such a great part. It's also, yeah, a really cool part of the, like, again, that's where I felt like you, even without it being, like, there's still some moments that if you're a CATS, Gillian Lynn purist, you're going to notice and see, which I thought was really cool. Because like, you're able to, again, create something new, but still keep the core of what it was, you know, what it is as a show. And it takes a, it's a very thin line to kind of like, go around. And it was, it was, I'm sure a journey to get you there, but it was really amazing to see. We're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. I want to hear one more thing before we go to rapid fire.

I'm really curious as someone from the ballroom scene, what was something, what's something you want people to take away? Or what's something you want people to know for the people that are coming in that are more of maybe the theater people that have less knowledge of the ballroom scene? What's that kind of moment that they should take away? Or what's something that you hope you portray from the ballroom scene that you can bring to this audience that maybe knows less about that community and scene?

[18:46] Baby: So people are always like, yes, ballroom is a competition, right? Like, it's a fierce competition. There's shade, there's people like, you know, if you could go to a ball and your girlfriend's in another house, but you're not going to talk to your girlfriend during the ball, because it's like, it's like competition. But I want people to take away the joy. Like, there is such a present joy in the ballroom scene, just because of who is in it, where it came from, and where it's going. And I know that the joy is very palpable at CATS: The Jellicle Ball. But that joy also comes from overcoming a lot of adversity. It's not just like a joy that is there because people started walking, like it, it came through something really, really traumatic and deep.

But it's still there, and it's still thriving. And I want people to take away that. And also the sense that yes, it's a competition. But when we all need to unite, we do. Like, even in the show, when the cops come and call out for Macavity, we're like, we're all Macavity. Because even though he's the villain in the night, because he stole the clothes, like, he is not a villain to us.

[20:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah, it's such an interesting, again, like, I looked at all this from the CATS lens. So it's like, I'm coming in as someone who is learning about the ballroom culture from the show. But one of the things I loved is that there's this like, uniqueness of everybody has a slightly different background, a slightly different story that brought them there. And you're all competing. And that's kind of the way all the cats are competing, because you're all trying to win this prize. But at the end of the day, you're all family. And like, you're all there for each other. And you might be a little annoyed with this one today. And you might be throwing shade at this one today. And, you know, you might have that, but you have each other's back.

And that's kind of like, that's where this parallel to me fit so perfectly, is it just felt like the Jellicles like the ball is the Jellicles, because it is this community that you have. And it's been such a beautiful way to watch the worlds merge and tell it through a story that, again, has been around for 45 years, and hasn't had that type of interpretation put on it. And I've loved seeing all the reaction and all the amazing reviews that you've had, because it works so well. And that's a testament to all the work you've all done.

[21:36] Baby: Thank you.

[21:38] Mike Abrams: Before we go to rapid fire, what's your favorite moment in the show for you either to perform or watch? So someone who's coming and listening to this, like, what's the moment that they should be waiting for?

[21:50] Baby: Well, if they haven't seen the show, I gave so much away.

[21:55] Mike Abrams: We'll put a big spoiler at the beginning of this.

[21:57] Baby: Okay. But my favorite moment, I'm in it. But also to watch because I've seen video from rehearsal is when the House of Dots comes out during Macavity for labels. And then just that into the end of Macavity when Macavity comes out. It's my favorite song in the show. And I just feel like that's such a ballroom moment. Like, you don't think the House of Dots is gonna come out, but we come out looking fab and we gag everybody.

[22:24] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's so great. You're also part of one of my favorite moments, which is a spoiler. This at this point, this show has been now running for a while. And I think if you're listening, if you haven't seen at this point, like, you should go see it. If you're if you're listening to this, I really love the tag team, because at that point, there's already been a winner too and so I'm like, Oh, this is I love how they're doing this and how you're giving different trophies to different cats. And you're giving different winners. And then I'm like, wait, Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer lost. I was like, I couldn't believe it. And then the minute they stole it. I'm like, that is such a perfect way for them to take the trophy.

Like, it's just such a brilliant piece of the plot that they were able to add in. And it kind of brought me through the range of emotions, where I'm like, I can't believe they lost. Oh, wait, this is what they're doing. Oh, that's really clever. And so that's one of my favorite moments that I still, since that happened, I've thought about it. And there's nothing at all to be done about that.

[23:20] Baby: Exactly. Exactly. All right, let's do some rapid fire, because I want to get us to the most important question, obviously. So if you could go on for one night and play any cat, whether male, female, whether you could do it or not, whether you could sing it or dance it, just if you could go on for one track one night, who do you want to perform as?

[23:31] Baby: I want to perform as Skimbleshanks.

[23:35] Mike Abrams: Skimbleshanks, love it.

[23:40] Baby: I want to be in uniform, stretching, doing splits and singing at the same time.

[23:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that's another very fun, slight tweak of the plot twist that I love that everyone who's seen it is raving about.

[23:55] Baby: Yeah, I love that. I love what we did with that number.

[23:59] Mike Abrams: Oh, it's so fun. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats from like a personality-wise? Like, who would you vibe with? And who would bug you? Thinking cats, not performers.

[24:05] Baby: Thinking cats, not performers. Right, right, right. Okay, so plot twist, secret plot twist, but Victoria really vibes with Macavity. And this is because, this is something that we built, it's a secret inside scoop. Macavity wants to steal me from the House of Dots and have me join the House of Macavity. So that's like something that we play with. Like, we have this moment right in the beginning where he comes up on the stage like, oh, you're cocked up, don't walk. And then I stand right in front of him. So he's a cat that I vibe with. I vibe with MonkaStrap. MonkaStrap is like uncle to me. I dislike, in the show, Victoria and Bombalurina have beef.

[25:00] Mike Abrams: Really? Where's this beef come from?

[25:04] Baby: She's always telling me to brush my wig.

[25:10] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[25:10] Baby: She always says my wigs look nasty. But I'm like, girl, you are in the House of Thievery. So we have beef in the show. Victoria and Rumpelteazer are kind of like enemies, but we also kind of have a secret crush on each other.

[28:03] Baby: You get to go out into the streets and be that same thing. Whereas, we're all still competing for that status within ourselves. It's like she gets to go out there and be the girl in real life. Not that ballroom's not real life, but it's different being in a subculture versus being in the mainstream and being recognized as someone who is worthy and fab and all those things.

[28:58] Mike Abrams: Totally. So, why her over Gus with the same argument?

[29:03] Baby: With the same argument? Gus wants to go to the heavy side layer so bad. Let me just tell you that. Gus wants to go so bad. And the person who plays Gus wants to go so bad. I love Junior, but her over Gus, that's a really good question. Because she's a femme queen.

[29:25] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[29:25] Baby: And Gus is not a femme queen.

[29:27] Mike Abrams: Okay. So, I think where we differ, and I've said that your production does an incredible job of making it much harder to argue against her. Because the reason is, I think so much of it depends on what you interpret the heavy side layer as. And I think your production does not make it as dark as it could be. I've always said that it's like being murdered. That's why this is called The Wrong Cat Died, is because it was like, oh, she's done. Let's go sacrifice her to start a new life. Whereas I think in your production, it doesn't feel like that's the case. It's not like her career's over. It feels like it's going to the next part of her career. And from that standpoint, I don't think that you could argue Grizabella, because it is much more of a... It's not like a... I always looked at the heavy side layer as the end of Grizabella, which I don't think is fair, which is part of why I don't think she should be the choice.

[30:21] Baby: You all welcome her back. I want her to spend time with you all now. I want her to be in the culture, be part of the scene now. She comes, especially in your production, comes back and, spoiler, in her dress, and belts out memory. Why do we have to end this here? But if this heavy side layer and she's walking up to a continuation of that, that's a very different story and a very different argument. So that's why I found your production much harder to argue for, because that is a very different answer and a different ending than what I have always interpreted the other productions as, which is, congrats, we've welcomed you back. Now we're going to murder you, which is, again, very... We're not going to let you spend time with the family.

[31:05] Mike Abrams: So I do love that thing. I do love Gus as, like, Gus is normally my choice. And Junior does feel like Junior's enjoying the ball too much to be ready to go anywhere.

[31:15] Baby: Yeah.

[31:17] Mike Abrams: But that is where it becomes interesting of what... So much of it depends on what the interpretation of the heavy side layer is. I was familiar with that concept. And so when the staircase comes down, I do... I always, every night, even though I know it's going to come down, I get choked up when it comes down, because I'm like, oh, wow, maybe we'll never see Grizabella again, even though she's where she needs to be. So it is very deep still to me, from a personal standpoint. But I am thinking about death as she's walking up the stairs, even though that's not literally what it is.

[32:01] Baby: Yeah. Yeah. The femme queen part's really interesting too, because my whole take on the show is I don't want to change the show at all, except for the minute Memory finishes and she gets welcomed back. I want one more scene where you have either another competition or something, and then somebody else can go to the heavy side layer, depending on the night, the performances, the day, it can change up. So I don't want to change Grizabella from getting her flowers, or getting her recognition, and especially being welcomed back to the family. I think that's an important part of the show. I just want a different pick every night.

[32:38] Mike Abrams: I love that idea, because honestly, at a ball, even the fabbest girl sometimes will not win, and it's just not your night. So that's a really cool concept to be like, okay, who really carried tonight? You. Wow.

[32:53] Baby: It could be you tonight.

[32:55] Mike Abrams: It could.

[32:56] Baby: Could be Victoria, who, you carried the show today, and it's your turn to go. That's what I want. I'll email Bill and Jalen and say, there's still time. Still got a couple weeks left. Just one more extension where everyone gets to be the Delacorte.

[33:11] Mike Abrams: One more night. One more night. Why can't someone from the crowd go? Why can't one of you all go? Let's audience vote. We've got time. We've got options here.

[33:19] Baby: We do.

[33:20] Mike Abrams: So did I change your vote, or are you still Grizabella?

[33:25] Baby: I got you thinking, that's at least all I was trying to do.

[33:28] Mike Abrams: You have me thinking.

[33:30] Baby: All I'm hoping for is that tonight or tomorrow, whenever your next show is, whenever you get there, you're going to get to that moment. Those stairs are going to go down. And maybe I'll run up them.

[33:37] Mike Abrams: I want you to go, why not me?

[33:41] Baby: Okay, work.

[33:42] Mike Abrams: That's what I'm here for. I'm slowly getting this.

[33:46] Baby: Did a lot of other people say Grizabella? Is that why you feel like you always have to fight?

[33:51] Mike Abrams: So Grizabella, I do keep track, and I've actually been posting where the rankings are. Grizabella is actually less than half the votes, but she is still leading for the most votes. And your production, as I've interviewed more of your cast, has not helped because most of your cast has been saying, not everyone, but most of your cast has been saying Grizabella, which I understand because it's a much harder argument against her in this production because of the way the storyline is just so clean and so nice. And like you said, everything you mentioned does fit neatly. Even when I did my review of the show and the recap, I kind of was like, maybe she does go tonight? I don't know. I don't want to change my show.

I'm not ready, but I get it a lot more than normal. Where for me, where this all stems from is when I saw it in 2016, I just was like, why her? I just watched all these other cats tell me why they should go. Performance of memory was great, but I wanted to see the... I was seeing the X Factor. I was seeing a former X Factor person. And so that's why I was like, oh, it's X Factor. I would have picked this person as my favorite. This would have been my vote. If I had an audience vote, it would not have been Grizabella. It would have been this person. And here's why. And it was Gus.

[35:04] Baby: And then I was... So Gus is to me, if you're picking, depending on the interpretation, mine was actually, I wanted Tugger and Mistoffelees to go together. Because I thought they were the most energy and fun of songs and performances at that particular production in time. And then there's all of this story of if are they together, are they not? What's going on there? Which your production leans heavily into for us. And so I was like, let's send them together. They can be a boy band.

[35:32] Mike Abrams: Work.

[35:33] Baby: So that's where I am. But I'm slowly just like, now I really want an audience vote. I want you to go up one night. I want Emma to go up one night.

[35:41] Mike Abrams: I actually saw your little poll thing with the percentages. Victoria only got 1% votes, so she's not going anytime soon.

[35:47] Baby: She's got one vote. Yes, there's one vote. And I did hear one interesting interpretation from a former Victoria, which was that she was actually last year's Jellicle Choice. And this is her reincarnation is what you're seeing, which is why you get the beginning of Victoria's story, why she's a kitten and younger. So yeah, I've not gotten many Victoria votes.

[36:13] Mike Abrams: I like that. I like that.

[36:16] Baby: But there's a lot of ways to interpret it. And I always love hearing different arguments for it, because it's open. The whole idea of cats is very loose as a plot, but there's a lot of stories still there. And so what I can interpret is very different than when someone else can. And that's what makes it, I think, so compelling and why it's sustained such success is by having such an open ended ability to have you and I watch the exact same thing and take different opinions from it.

[36:45] Mike Abrams: Thanks. And I can tell you why I don't think Victoria could be the Jellicle Choice just yet, is she's too vital. She's too vital for the cats.

[36:53] Baby: Too important. Yeah.

[36:55] Mike Abrams: It's like when you don't get promoted because you're too good at what you do. It's like that.

[37:03] Baby: Yeah. But if the criteria for the heavyset layer is who carried the show that night, don't you think you're picked a couple times?

[37:11] Mike Abrams: Yes.

[37:12] Baby: Right? So that's where I'm like, maybe you do deserve to go. Let's not rule Victoria out yet.

[37:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's an option.

[37:20] Baby: Wow, this has been so fun. How can people stay in touch with you, social media and everything else?

[37:25] Baby: So my Instagram is at burnbabygocrazy. And yeah, I post what I'm doing there.

[37:36] Mike Abrams: Amazing. Yeah, we'll link that. And also the show's going through August 11th. So yes. Come see it. It's amazing time. And it is probably the most fun I've had in theater this year by a lot. So go see the show if you can.

[37:52] Baby: Amazing. Thank you so much.

[37:53] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Thank you for coming on and sharing. And thanks everyone for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of catastrophe. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and threads at The Wrong Cat Died or check out our website, thewrongcatdied.com.