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[0:16] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Cat Statisticphy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. We are working with the Perelman Performing Arts Center, a reimagined production of CATS called CATS: The Jellicle Ball, to bring you a series of episodes during the run, and we are on to their third extension. So I'm honored to have Teddy Wilson Jr. here with me today. Teddy is performing as Sillabub. So welcome, Teddy, and thank you for joining me.

[0:37] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Hi, thank you for having me. So excited to be here.

[0:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah, this will come out during your... I would have been saying your break, but I don't think you're getting a break, but without performances during the couple of weeks, and then it's going to be a three-week sprint to the end. So I'm excited that you're getting that extra time and that more people are getting a chance to see the show because it's been incredible and it was sold out for a while. But I want to ask you as a musical theater person, take me to the beginning of your CATS history. When was the first time you saw it or learned about CATS the musical?

[1:11] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Okay, so I remember I watched the filmed production of CATS on YouTube, like probably when I was in middle school, sometime around then. And I remember seeing it and I wasn't really into musical theater. I hadn't been in the show ever, but I was a little mini gay and there was people dancing in leotards and singing high. And I was like, oh wait, this is probably something I should watch. And I remember watching it and I was always obsessed with Victoria, the white cat. And I was like, because of course, she's the softest girl in that show. And I was like, that's the one. She doesn't sing a lick, but she's the purest, beautiful, just elegant on stage. And I was like, that's it. And then of course, I think it's Elaine who was in the filmed version of it.

I think it's her. And I remember watching her and I was like, wait, that's so cute. And then I sang Touch Me for a good week, sang Memory for a good week after that, had it on my brain on loop. But yeah, CATS. I think it was about 2012 when I first listened to it.

[2:23] Mike Abrams: Okay. So you watched the 1998 movie growing up, but on YouTube, which is great.

[2:27] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yes.

[2:28] Mike Abrams: So that is what it's on YouTube. You also, it seems like, I think you've had at least Ken Page and Jacob Brent come through your show that I've seen.

[2:36] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah.

[2:37] Mike Abrams: So you've got to meet a couple of that cast has been able to come see the show, which is pretty awesome.

[2:42] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah. The original Macavity, original Mr. Mistoffelees, and original Deuteronomy, Ken Page.

[2:49] Mike Abrams: Original Deuteronomy. Yeah. Yeah. They were all there. And it's like, it's kind of like they show up and it's like, oh my gosh, we're doing that show, but like not that show. But you know.

[2:59] Teddy Wilson Jr.: And I got to speak with Jacob about it and we put an episode out because it is like, it's different, but the same. And so there's a lot of really cool parallels to it. And it's so fun.

[3:09] Mike Abrams: So you had never really listened full through or like really seen a production. You just watched YouTube clips.

[3:13] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah. It was YouTube clips up until I eventually got into a workshop for CATS and I was like, oh, I should probably listen to the score so I know what to sing when I come on to rehearsal. But yeah, that was my first time.

[3:33] Mike Abrams: I love it. So you did score. You never sat down and watched the whole thing from start to finish, did you?

[3:38] Teddy Wilson Jr.: No, I don't think I did.

[3:39] Mike Abrams: Have you still to this day?

[3:41] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Is it bad to say I haven't?

[3:42] Mike Abrams: No, no, not at all. Because you're doing a different production and there's two schools of thought. And I found it really interesting. I've talked to people who've said, it's kind of nice to go in fully fresh because it allows you to create your character and not kind of base everything off of what you've seen one time or the version you've seen or know. But at the same time, there's also like, maybe you do watch it and pick some stuff up. The film version is also a little bit like, they point you, the camera, to directions of what they want you to see versus seeing it on stage, even then when there's a lot going on. But I love it. So you were part of the workshop. This would have been two to four years ago, depending on when you jumped in.

[4:20] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yes, I did the first workshop. At least I think it was the first workshop that was cast in 2022, a few months after graduating from college. And I remember going into the audition and trying my best to feel not feline, but still cunty. And I remember stepping into the workshop the first time and being with all these amazing, crazy performers and feeling very much like imposter syndrome for a lot of it, but also feeling accepted and welcome. And just being with the project, that stage of its life was really inspiring. And ever since, I was like, oh my gosh, I hope they call me back. I hope they call me back.

[5:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Do you remember what was the casting notice for Sillabub about that time? Because I remember these casting notes went viral because they were a little strange for what people were not used to. No one knew at that time what it was.

[5:21] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah. I remember my agent sent it to me and I was like, oh, this is not CATS. They're not CATS. And I think for Sillabub, they were looking for someone who was at that childlike wonder, and a good dancer, a good singer. I actually think at one point they were looking for a plus-size person to be Sillabub, which I'm not. So when they called me back for that, I was like, oh, I think you mixed something up because that's not me. But I think they really saw my version of Sillabub in my audition and they were like, yeah, let's try that.

[6:03] Mike Abrams: Okay. Let's talk about Sillabub then.

[6:06] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Oh my gosh, please.

[6:07] Mike Abrams: I want to hear your version. So I love hearing a little bit of what was told to you about Sillabub versus what did you get to create through this process?

[6:18] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Well, Sillabub, if you've seen the show, is very different from how I feel it's traditionally played historically. I feel like Sillabub is a very symbolic character and kind of, you know, like, sings Memory with Grizabella, but it's kind of like, you know, at a distance, a stance, like on top of an old tire where she's like, and she's just singing. But in this version, I think they really wanted to create this relationship between Sillabub and Grizabella and Deuteronomy to have this storyline and through line of like, really giving meaning to why Sillabub might be singing in the moments that she is singing and what she is singing about. I know that in our first workshop, we did some table work, you know, with me and Grizabella.

And what happened, we kind of started working with like, maybe like, Grizabella was the house mother for the house that Sillabub is now in. And maybe like Sillabub, you know, went away and came back. And it's really confused about the new point of view of the community at Grizabella. And like, how do we work with that? And it started there. And then it kind of molded to this other thing where, you know, Sillabub is a new cat entering into the world and knows of Grizabella, knows of really all the cats, you know. I kind of treat Sillabub as the Gen Z-er who like, watches the reels on Instagram, and it's like PhD in folk and things like that. It's like, you know, has always lived and knows these people by name, but has never experienced them in a space and been to a ball.

Maybe she's been to one ball once before. And like, maybe she walked like one category and like, that was her, like, you know, big moment. She was really excited about that. And, you know, bringing that life into Sillabub as this production, she's more of a watcher. And like, she has this outside perspective or the audience perspective on stage being learning about the cats, you know, learning about the names of cats and how each cat has a very specific category that they walk and like, what these categories mean. And I think Sillabub is that point of view of curiosity, of wonder, of, you know, enjoyment, of appreciation, but also of learning and finding out new things and seeing the messy side, as well as the beautiful side that you don't see on the reels and on TikTok and things like that.

[9:02] Mike Abrams: I love everything about that, that you're saying, because I, when I saw you do the performance and I saw your Sillabub, I've always been fascinated by how you view the story of CATS, like as an audience member, because the version I first saw in 2016 on Broadway as a revival, it's a pretty loose storyline and there's not a lot of directing you through it. And then the movie that we don't want to talk about from 2019, that gave us at least Victoria as the lens to watch the whole thing through. And I kind of felt like you and Sillabub are the lens to almost watch this production through. MonkaS Trap is our narrator and kind of talking us through all the different things, but the moments that kind of continue to move the story forward, it seems like you pop into them as Sillabub.

It's like, there's a moment where you're here doing this. There's a moment where I feel like if I just follow you around the stage, I'm going to know where to look at all times, because you're observing at the right spots. And I love some of the things you do with Grizabella. I hope we're not, again, we're not spoiling, it's been around now. I don't know if I think we can say this, where if you haven't seen it yet and you're listening to this, then hopefully you'll get a chance to see it. But you're the one that brings the dress out and you're the one that kind of like has all these moments with Grizabella. So it does fit. I love the Gen Z. You don't really know her. You don't know Grizabella that well, but you have watched enough that you kind of feel like maybe you do, and you're now there. You're going to get your moment. So that's a really fun version of that.

[10:26] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you said that you can watch Sillabub and know where to look, because that was actually my intention. Part of my way of going through this track and figuring out what Sillabub was and taking note of you are the audience perspective, you are that lively, joyous, having a great time. So I made an intentional choice that during each of the Cats numbers, I'm kind of in their area. Like during Bustifer's number, I'm sitting at the bar that Bustifer owns. And if you're watching, I always say, if they put the softest little special on me, that will be the clearest idea of like, oh, you're supposed to look at me and you can see where I'm looking at. I'm pushing that energy out on stage. I do that during Diplocavity. I do it during Wiggle Jerry Rumble Teaser. I'm always at a point of view where you can look and follow the story. So it's like that shows through.

[11:31] Mike Abrams: How do you as a performer still really build and add to that story when you maybe aren't always in the front of the catwalk or going through? You do so much work for that story, but it's not as I would say, you know, like there's not a song for Sillabub. There's not the like, about Sillabub and here's why we need to know Sillabub type of thing. So how do you try to do that as a performer?

[11:56] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Standing on the sidelines and being a watcher throughout the show has really helped me become an ensemble member. And honestly, you know, the help of the ensemble around like, you know, things are happening on stage during tag team performance with Muggle Jerry and Rumpleteaser and then, you know, Victoria and Tumble Brutus, they do their thing. And so like, I'm on the side with Jelly Laura. I mean, you know, we're cheering on, we have our opinions, we're talking, we're having ad-libs, you know, the things that we can say about, you know, putting too much focus to really build that storyline. And, you know, sometimes it's as simple as what does Sillabub know here and what does she not know? So like, when they're like, Deuteronomy has buried 99 wives, I might say, I'm like, oh, 99, that's crazy. That's a different point of view than, you know, somebody like MonkaStrap who has been here time and time again. It's like, it's definitely 99 wives. Like, it's not nine, you know?

[13:05] Mike Abrams: I'm curious a little bit about you, you know, you mentioned the Gen Z on, you know, TikToking or watching social media, but then if I'm not mistaken, you have a camera around your neck.

[13:12] Teddy Wilson Jr.: I do.

[13:12] Mike Abrams: That's an old school camera. Is that one? My first question is, are you actually taking photos that like, is there like a collection you have somewhere of everything you've been taking throughout the shows?

[13:23] Teddy Wilson Jr.: So it's funny because that's actually something we added to the show right before opening, like the day before. So it was kind of like, we were trying to figure out how do we really, you know, push that envelope of Sillabub being the watcher. And, you know, Jalen, one of our directors came up to me and was like, what if you had a camera? You just like snap photos with a little flash. And I am actually taking pictures. I'm like, actually lighting them up. I'm like, oh, I have to like, give this a good shot. I don't know if they are going to print them because it's a real, you know, real disposable cameras. I've gone through probably like 20 of them throughout this run. And the camera's real. I'm taking real pictures.

And that camera to me is that extra bit of let me slap this moment because throughout the entire show, and specifically in Act Two, there's like this idea of paying homage to the people who came before in the history. And I feel like that camera for me is, you know, also documenting this momentous time, like before in Act One, it's really about, you know, having the fun and, you know, getting a good like memorabilia to take back home, you know, to show my friends, wherever Sillabub's friends might be outside of the Jellicle Ball. And Act Two, it comes, you know, we do Moments of Happiness, and then we do Gossip Theater Cat, and it's really about, you know what, this is a moment in history that we do need to solidify.

And I'm hoping I'm actually going to talk to marketing and be like, can we like make a yearbook? Because I'm taking so many pictures, and I'm making a point to get moments that I think are integral to the story as well as, you know, being a fun little thing for the cast to be able to look back on and say that we, you know, did this revolutionary version of Cats that no one was expecting, but it seems everyone loves.

[15:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's so cool. Because the first time I saw you do it, I was like, I hope this is actually taking a photo and not just Mom.

[15:31] Teddy Wilson Jr.: I know, right? And I do love the parallels, because like you mentioned, you've got, you've got the, you know, Sillabub is supposed to be a younger Cat observing, and you're using an old disposable camera, like, you know, a technology that's very outdated at this point, although maybe would be trendy and coming back for Gen Z, you know, that type of thing.

[15:48] Teddy Wilson Jr.: It definitely is trending and coming back. I actually, in my room, I have a photo wall from college, because I think it was about the time, like post COVID, after 2020, everybody was like, you know, let's like, start taking photos on disposable cameras. So like, they've gotten way more expensive. They're like, okay, $20 for a pack of two. And, you know, you get them developed, you pass them out to your friends, they give you a little CD now so you can like save them and really have the memories and everything. So, yes.

[16:19] Mike Abrams: Do you have any moments that you have taken during their show where you're like, oh, that one is going to be good?

[16:26] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Oh, my gosh, there's so many, like during Rumpleteaser, Muggle Jerry Rumpleteaser, they like do this high kick. And one time I got it right, perfect when they were both, both of their legs were extended. And I was like, that's going to be a great picture. I always take one at the end of Victoria's solo, and she like places her hand on her neck and I'm centered right in front of her. Mug shots in the background. That's a great picture. I've gotten a lot of Mr. Mistoffelees because how can you not? Like I take like five pictures throughout that one number and I'm like, that's great. That's great. That's great. Let me get them the Mr. Mistoffelees Rum Tum Tugger moment, especially if you know, you know.

[17:09] Mike Abrams: Oh, yeah, they know.

[17:11] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah, there are a few. I try to get one for each number that I can that it fits dramaturgically because it is a flash camera, so I can't always be like, click, click, because everybody will be like, what's going on?

[17:22] Mike Abrams: Have you hit any audience members? Have you gotten any good, like, oh, this person's into it. Let's capture them.

[17:28] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely have taken pictures of audience members. Taken in the beginning, actually, the first thing I do is when I say, can you find your way blind? I snap a picture of the audience so they know like, this is, this is going to be happening throughout the show. And I think every time somebody's always like, okay, yeah. All right. Next time I come, I'm going to, I'm going to.

[17:50] Mike Abrams: Yeah, tell me where you're sitting.

[17:51] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah, and then then we'll have to get them all developed. Now, it's such a good idea to get them developed and have that, like, you know, it's throughout the run, too, because like, there's obviously the ones that marketing is going to do and like the true production photos. But these are very in the moment. I mean, these are as authentic as you can get of the performance and you're doing it every night. So you've got just a ton of really cool pictures.

[18:18] Teddy Wilson Jr.: All right. We're going to be, if it doesn't happen, I'm starting to send emails after if I don't see them by a month after the run ends.

[18:24] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I know, I'm like, oh crap, I'm like, excuse me. Hi, we need a yearbook.

[18:27] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah, I'm setting up the yearbook club. That's what I'm doing.

[18:30] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. What other, like, relationships do you feel with Sillabub? Have you kind of crafted with the other characters? Because again, it's not one where, it's not Tugger Mistoffelees where it's well documented on fan fiction and art and everywhere else. There's a little bit more of like the Grisabella relationship is very clear, but some of the rest are a little bit more, I think you have more freedom to play with. So which ones have you built out?

[19:01] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Well, some of the main relationships are between Sillabub and Bustopher Jones and then Sillabub and MonkaStrap. Throughout the previews and texts, they were kind of like, oh, we kind of need a hand to do this. And suddenly Sillabub kind of became the stagehand of the bar. So me and Bustopher kind of established this relationship that they are like, oh, like, can you go sweep up those petals that you just threw on the ground? Thank you, you know, almost like that. And like, bring out this fan, grab this sign. So me and Bustopher definitely have a budding relationship throughout the show where it's like, they become almost like taking me in and, you know, showing me the way. And MonkaStrap being this fatherly figure throughout the bar is always there for Sillabub.

You know, we always check in with like, they're like, like powerhead in the space, but also like just loving, gentle person to Sillabub, especially. And I think those two relationships have definitely crafted. I also think the relationship between Deuteronomy has been, you know, there's this like, almost like connection between the two of them where Deuteronomy will just give Sillabub a look or like, he'll be like, you're new here. It's okay, boo. Take your time. You'll get it in the end. I promise.

[20:25] Mike Abrams: Oh, yeah. It's, I mean, it is, it seems very clear that you are the newest either Jellicle or the youngest or the one that's kind of experienced this, this ball for the first time. So it's a good parallel for my next question and a good, good segue to it. How much ballroom culture and knowledge did you have before getting into this project? Because like, as someone who had the theater background and then having these icons of Junior of Asia and, you know, this Silicon Baby and Primo and Deva and all these other people from the ballroom scene and ballroom world, it was such a cool thing to hear from, for me to hear from everybody. But I walked in the first time I saw the show with like, very little ballroom knowledge.

I knew the general idea and then I was able to see Paris is Burning. But to put this on authentically, I know you had to have like, you had a bunch of people involved, but how much for you did you know going in versus did you learn as you were building out the show?

[21:21] Teddy Wilson Jr.: So I had always been very aware of the ballroom scene. I think, you know, after graduating college, I didn't have any really real connection, like I'm not in a ballroom house. But I came here one summer after college and I was like me and my friends, we went to a ball and I actually kind of did the Sillabub thing where I walked my first category. I walked Virgin Runway and like, I like got my 10s and then I got chopped. So it was literally kind of like Virgin Vogue where I got my 10s and they were like, sorry, you're chopped. And I was like, OK, that's fine. I had a great time while doing it. But, you know, growing up in a conservative household and like I'm from South Florida, the ballroom scene isn't as extravagant and as grand as it is here in New York City.

So I didn't really have that inlet through there. But coming into this process, you know, I've made so many friends with the ballroom people, you know, me, Baby, Primo and Silk have been with this project since the first workshop. And so I do feel like we are a ballroom house. The Jellicles, I like to call us, the Jellicle cats, that's our ballroom house. But I feel like my connection to ballroom has grown. But it was definitely, you know, there were some growing pains, you know, being from a predominantly musical theater background, you know, not necessarily knowing the vocabulary or feeling like I had the agency to, you know, join in in moments, you know, when the voguers are voguing down on our breaks and things like that, because there's a certain level of reverence.

And you really want to respect the culture. And ballroom, historically, is very cutthroat. And musical theater people are very, like, sensitive. So like, you don't, like, don't ever want to cross a line to the point where they're like, you know, that's a chop to you. Because then it's like, oh, my feelings hurt. But also, throughout the process, you kind of learn that just because it is cutthroat doesn't mean that it's malicious. It's more so just about the energy of ballroom just flows throughout even the rehearsal process, even when we're on breaks. And it is about inclusivity for the Black and brown queer community to really feel liberated and feel able to have that agency to say, well, that's a chop themselves, you know?

[23:52] Teddy Wilson Jr.: I definitely have grown to feel more in tune, and I am looking at ballroom houses myself. We have two legendary ballroom fathers as choreographers. Some people have joined Dio Ricci, who is Omari's house, and Arturo's house father, Jean Gler, and I have interest in both of them. It's hard because you can't do both. You have to choose one. But there's also the Kiki scene. I'm thinking of joining a house in the Kiki scene and trying to find a family through there. I'm very excited for what my ballroom experience will be post this production. Yeah, I think this has been a recruitment effort for a few people, it seems like. I have found the parallels to what I've learned about ballroom through talking to these amazing ballroom performers and people from the scene for this show.

It's been really cool because it does parallel. I know CATS, and that's what I know now. There are some parallels. There's this fierceness, there's this competition, but also there's this family. The Jellicles are family. Buggy, you might be fighting with them, you might want to be the winner tonight of the Jellicle choice, but at the end of the day, you're all there together. And I felt that's very similar to ballroom, which is why this parallel worked so well, and it's why it's succeeding. And then your energy and performance is what has caught everybody's attention because it's got a clear storyline and it's fun, it's entertaining. And the energy is, I think everyone's been using the word electric, which is what I said the first time I saw it.

And I've loved that every time I've seen it. I've seen it twice. I've been fortunate to see it twice. I have tickets for a third time in the last one, hoping to come back at least once more. But I think what I've loved each time is the first time I went, it was a second preview. It was mostly ballroom and CATS people or theater people. It was people who very early on were like, I've heard about this, I'm ready. The second time was right before BroadwayCon, and it was a wide range. And I was sitting with a six-year-old kid next to me, and I had these two older ladies to my side. And I asked them, I was like, hey, how did you decide this show? And they're like, we don't know. We just heard it was great.

And so I love that that is now you're getting much more of the masses to come. And then they loved it. They could not have had a better time. They were jamming through the whole thing. And I think that's a really cool thing because one is it's bringing, I think, some CATS haters around because there's a lot of CATS haters that are now like, oh, it's clear. I understand it. And two, I think you're bringing a little bit more awareness to a community and culture that maybe wasn't as well-known to segments of the population. And I think that's a really cool piece. I love the moments of happiness and the history that is put up for everyone to see to kick off Act Two. And then it's also right before you bring out Junior, who's just Gus to a T, as perfect as you can get. It lines up perfectly. It's absolutely upsetting.

[27:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So, okay. I want to do some rapid fire because I want to get to the Jellicle choices, especially coming from Sillabub's lens. It's such an interesting question for you. But before that, first one is, if you could go on for any other CAT, whether you could sing it, dance it, male, female, who would you want to perform as for one night?

[27:23] Teddy Wilson Jr.: I think I would want to do either Bombalurina or Demeter because Macavity was one of my favorite songs when I used to listen to the actual moments. I would always click on Macavity because it's like, that's the big belty number. And I actually, for my audition, I auditioned with the Macavity song. Bombalurina's birth. And I was serving, giving split, crawling on the floor, screaming, singing, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then they were literally like, you're the baby. I was like, okay, great. But definitely Bombalurina and Demeter, for sure.

[28:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I love that. I love that song. Who are your favorite and least favorite CATs from a personality-wise? So who would you like to hang out with and who would bug you?

[28:14] Teddy Wilson Jr.: I think Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer scare me. They're like, in our production, they're the brassy attitude, like Mungojerrie, they're just feds. Are you mean like a mink? And from that moment, I steal the autograph from Rumpleteazer and she gets it back. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm scared of you. Y'all are great. But I think the people who I want to be the closest friends with is probably Tumblebrutus and Victoria in our production because they're the coolest cats. They vogue daft each and every time. I've told a few people to watch them do their dancing, if you're going, because the two of them, Primo and Baby, do some work throughout the show. And they're doing crazy things that isn't always necessarily maybe the front center because even in the Mungojerrie Rumpleteazer number, they're so heavily featured.

And they're almost villainous in that sense because they're competing with the song. And the last time I saw it, I was like, dang, these two are really, these two are getting after it. It's impressive to watch.

[29:28] Mike Abrams: Favorite song? Is it Macavity?

[29:33] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Oh, actually, my favorite song to watch is actually Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer because it is just a marathon of a song. And my castmates are up there on that stage eating every single bit of it. There's so many words. They're flipping, they're splitting, they're turning upside down. I'm like, that's amazing. It blows my mind every single time.

[29:53] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And they do that costume change and all that. There's so much involved in that one. Um, is Sillabub in a house?

[29:58] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Sillabub is 007, so she's not in a house. It's her first time. But I think by the end of the night, she has her eyes on a few houses. And I think a few houses have their eyes on her as well. So I guess that's the two questions in here. One is, where do you think Sillabub's going if she's joining? And if not, what is Sillabub's house name going to be if she's creating her own house?

[30:28] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Oh, okay. I think if she was to join a house, she would join probably the House of Macavity. Okay. Just because I feel like the energy and that's another, those are another set of relationships between me and Demeter and Sillabub and Bombalurina that also grow throughout the show. And there's moments where it's like, I like y'all. Y'all are the fashionable ones. Yeah. So I think she would join the House of Macavity. And if she had to make her own, it'd probably be called like Florals or something like that. Cause she's always talking about flowers.

[31:10] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. Okay. So the million dollar question is I've argued at length. I don't think Grizabella's the right Jellicle choice. Do you think your production makes it a lot harder? But as Sillabub, who kind of really ushers that story through, who's Sillabub's correct Jellicle choice? And then who's Teddi's correct Jellicle choice?

[31:21] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Okay. So Sillabub's correct Jellicle choice is definitely Grizabella because Sillabub's confused right off the gate when everybody's like, oh, who is that? I'm like, no, that's Grizabella. What do you mean? That is the legend Grizabella walking into the space. And like, yeah, she looks a little rough, but that's fine. She has history. She doesn't have to look amazing to walk into the space. So I definitely think Sillabub is like, oh no, Grizabella. And that's why she's like Deuteronomy. Like this is the third time Grizabella enters the space when she's about to sing, when she sings Memory. And Sillabub goes, Deuteronomy, she's leaving. We can't let her leave this last time. And Deuteronomy's like, take it away.

She runs and she's like, please stay. Just walk. Just do it. Just put yourself out there. And I think she's so thrilled when Grizabella is chosen. Teddi, however, I don't know if this is revolutionary to say, but I do think that Mr. Mistoffelees is the Jellicle choice. He brings Deuteronomy back. And that number, especially in this production, is just so monumental and filled with such joy, like gay rights. I think Mr. Mistoffelees is my Jellicle choice, Teddi's Jellicle choice, because it's just, how can the person who brought back the Jellicle leader not go to the Heaviside lair? Even if Grizabella is ratted and tatted and probably needs it.

[33:01] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's a philosophical question on what do you think the criteria is and what do you think the Heaviside lair is, right? That's really what it breaks down to. And so I love the Mistoffelees choice because I have noticed your production has flipped a little bit of the script on this because of the way the story is told and just the nuances. Because it's still the same story, but there are different pieces to it. Because before this production, it was a two-cat race. It was Grizabella and Gus, and that was it. I mean, there were some votes here and there, but now I think in your production, a little bit more, it's been more Grizabella and Mistoffelees, a lot more. And I do think that's an interesting small tweak in difference because Mistoffelees got some votes before. They were definitely in the little bit of the running, but it was very clear Gus and Grizabella.

[34:11] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. I think Junior's not ready. So Junior does not make anybody ready to believe that Gus is going.

[34:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And also Junior's like, fine, girl, take it.

[34:22] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah. It's been fun. It's been fun to see the piece. And you get to, as Sillabub, almost kick off the beginning of that ending and that number by being such the through line to the whole piece. And then you get to sing and harmonize with Grizabella. So you get to bring it home to the choice. Which is very cute and fulfilling of me, dare I say.

[34:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah. How can people stay in touch with you? And then of course, I'll link how to get tickets because there's only three weeks left and there are still some available, but they won't be if you're waiting. I'm sure they will be sold out before the end of the run.

[35:00] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yeah. My Instagram, teddywilsonjr is probably the best place to get in touch with me. Otherwise, talk to my agents at Clear Talent Group.

[35:10] Mike Abrams: Yeah. If you're ready to hire Teddy, that's how you go. If you want to talk about fandom, Instagram is the way to go.

[35:14] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Yes. If you want to send me some flowers, you have to hit me up in my DMs.

[35:19] Mike Abrams: Amazing. This has been so fun. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story.

[35:23] Teddy Wilson Jr.: Thank you. Thank you so much.

[35:25] Mike Abrams: And thanks, everyone, for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of CATS Ashby. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other social podcasts. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads at TheWrongCatDied or check our website, thewrongcatdied.com.