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[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown that casts at your feet. I'm your host Mike Abrams and today we have a very exciting guest.

[0:20] Mike Abrams: I have now known this guest for a few years and he might be one of the most devoted fans of Cats: The Jellicle Ball I have met. And by the time this episode comes out, he will likely have seen the show over 50 times. So I'm thrilled to have him here today to talk about his Jellicle experience. So welcome, Jordan Stefanski. Thank you for joining me.

[0:39] Jordan Stefanski: Thanks, Mike. Thank you for having me on your podcast.

[0:42] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I, you know, we've obviously met at the pack and have known each other now for a little bit and talk a lot about the Jellicle Ball. So I want to always start though with, I know you're experiencing the show at the pack a bunch of times, but what was your Cats experience before that? Were you a big Cats super fan or was the Jellicle Ball kind of the turning point for you?

[1:03] Jordan Stefanski: It's, it's a very, it's a very weird and winding road because I, I mean, I grew up, my mother is sort of like my gateway to everything theater. But I always remember her saying that she absolutely loathed the original Cats, just because I guess that her and my dad were just not where they weren't feeling, you know, the costumes and the fact that they were dressed as cats and all over, all over the audience all over each other. And, I mean, it just sounded weird to me. I mean, and then kind of moving forward, I saw clips of the show, the 1998 video that everyone knows, you know, on YouTube. My first real though exposure, well, actually, and then also, of course, you know, some of the clones here and there, obviously, memory is in the canon of, well, anybody who has ever listened to musical theater.

But then my first real experience with it, unfortunately for me, was the 2019 movie. I went on opening day. Just because I'm thinking, I'm like, this is, I like, I do love supporting musical films. And like, you know, you don't get a lot of them. And, you know, I have my AMCA list. And I'm like, you know what, what the hell? Why not? I'll go. I sat there. And I, I didn't know, like, I didn't know what I was watching. Like, was I having a stroke? Or was I just not understanding the concept? Because I'm usually good at trying to understand concepts. And it just, like, by the end, I'm like, look, I don't even use any form of substances. But at the end, I'm like, I feel like I understand why my friends use substances now. It was an experience. Like, I got home and I was like, well, that was the thing that I saw.

[3:20] Mike Abrams: What an introduction to the musical. I kind of love that, you know, your mom was like, yeah, you know, this isn't for me, but you obviously know about it. And I was waiting for you to say the 2016 revival or, you know, something else was the introduction. But yeah, the 2019 movie, that is quite the introduction to the cat's world.

[3:40] Jordan Stefanski: The thing about the 2016 revival is that I considered seeing it. And again, like, I was a little, I obviously had grown up a little bit and, you know, had my own little disposable income to do, you know, Russia lottery or whatever. But my mother, still traumatized from the 80s, was kind of just like, maybe no, don't. And I was just going, and I ended up going to see Jersey Boys with my aunt right across the street from there.

[4:12] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. So you were, your mother was like deep into do not go see this, but I want to fast forward to...

[4:21] Jordan Stefanski: It's what I call a gentle, gentle hatred.

[4:24] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. Not the like extreme, but enough that you were like, when you, you're not going to go see every show. So you're going to see, you know, you're not going to pick that as one of your choices, which I understand. So then when did you first learn about the Jellicle Ball? Because it hit the like lure in the cat's world pretty early when they started doing like the readings and they had the postings for the readings. But was that something that you kind of picked up on or was it actually when it came to the pack?

[4:51] Jordan Stefanski: So oddly enough, so my, my origin story with this production of Cats actually goes back to the workshops, but it just happened to be, it just happened to be just a random conversation with, you know, a friend of mine at the time who was in the workshops and later in the production. And we had just gone to see Pearly Victorious together. We were walking down the street. I was walking with him back to his apartment and, you know, I asked him like, Hey, so what's going on? What do you have to like, you know, what's coming down the pipeline? What should I be putting aside my ticket money for? And he's just like, okay, so listen to this next summer, we're going to be doing Cats, but it's going to be off Broadway, downtown.

And the concept is ballroom, like think Paris is burning and pose. And I just remember stopping like he was telling me and I'm thinking I'm like, okay, I mean, sure, Dan, but I was like, a little confused because I guess yeah, I because of because of the 2019 film, I kind of just burned the entire idea of the musical out of my head. Like, I didn't really care what the story was about. So I'm like, how's this gonna fit into ballroom? And I think the words that came out of my mouth are you've got to be effing kidding me. Because I my flabbers were gassed it I was just like, who came up with this? Okay, sure. I mean, I'll go support you. I'll go see it. Why not? You know, it's it's theater. You know, you've got you've got me on the hook with the ballroom, you know, and I always love supporting black queer theater when I can.

And I'm just like, you know what? What's it what what's to lose? Like, it'll probably the worst thing. It'll probably be like the best thing I ever saw. Or it'll be, you know, one of those shows that, you know, you talk about a cocktail parties later on. And the entire story begins with you going, girl, it's so true.

[7:18] Mike Abrams: It's it was such a wild concept when I heard about it at first. And obviously, they did so many workshops. But I love that you're that you were supporting a friend like that was really the origin of this is just, you know, a friend that is working on it, and you're going to support and then obviously, it struck a chord with you. And you went back. I remember this is how we mix. I remember I was at the show. And I think we met actually at another show too that we we've obviously been in a you and I see a lot of theater now and we end up seeing a lot of shows at the same time. It seems like what I remember here lies love because I think I think that was the it might have been the immersive theater era.

Yeah, here lies love. And then I remember, we met outside of na, because I saw you, you were wearing a Starlight Express t shirt. And there was only like two of us standing there waiting. It was like me, you and then my two friends and like one other person. And I was like, Oh, Starlight Express. I had just seen it in London. And so I remember being Oh, yeah. And then we I think the next time I went to the pack, I saw you and then you were like, Yeah, this is like my 12th viewing of it. And that's how we started kind of kicking it off. So it obviously struck a chord with you. And you went back at the pack a lot of times.

[8:29] Jordan Stefanski: I did. I did. I my grand total ended up being 13 times. Yeah, 13 at the pack. Wow. Okay, there you're. And you went to the first preview. I remember on the on the Broadway transfer. What a night that was. Crazy. And then you've been back multiple times since so I'd love to hear a little bit about like what in that first viewing and then over and over and over again kind of connected with you to want to continue to go back to a show because it's you know, there's I've seen a lot of shows we talked a lot about repeating shows. And I've had someone on this podcast who went to the 2016 revival, I think 80 plus times, but it's not common you get somebody that goes more than 10. You know, like that's, that's a lot. And so what was it about this show in particular that got you to just almost anytime you had the chance to go back?

[9:21] Jordan Stefanski: Well, here's the thing, like, since the since theaters reopened after the pandemic, I have kind of just leading to the philosophy that if you like it, go see it. Go see it multiple times. Some and a lot of cases, a lot of cases, you'll find that every time you go back, you see something new. So like, kind of just give it a little bit of the origin, like the first show this happened with for me was a strange loop. And I know when I talk about seeing that I have seen that a total of 50 times across productions on two continents. So like that was that was a show that just it knocked me on my butt. It spoke to me. I knew it was something very special and something that I would cherish. But also it was one of those things where it's like I I need to bring everybody I know to go see this.

And like my again, it just kind of spirals into you know, my new philosophy of if it brings you joy, go see it. If you if you have the means go. I mean, I've paid I I've bought tickets for my friends to come with me because it's like, they'll say sometimes money's a bit of a barrier. I'm like, Nope, I'll get your ticket. We're gonna go. Because also sometimes, especially in theater, that's not particularly conventional. The especially the more offbeat things like another one of my frequent, frequent haunts is Oh, Mary. So the Lyceum staff know me by name. But yeah, I like I'll buy a ticket and I'll just be like, Nope, you're coming with me. You're gonna see this. It's no investment on your end.

And sometimes the best experiences are watching my friends or watching my family watch the show. Because I kind of already know what's coming. And so I talked to like, I want to talk to them after the show and see like how they feel, but watching some of their reactions, especially when it comes to Jellicle Ball. Oh, my, it's it's priceless sometimes.

[11:50] Mike Abrams: I agree with that wholeheartedly. I, I think there's a joy and you know, obviously, there's a privilege that comes with this and being able to to do this, like be able to either afford it have the means to do it, or choose to spend your your disposable income on this. But I agree completely. I there's a couple shows I've brought a lot of like out of town tours to in Juliet, I just have taken a lot of people to Titanic recently. And the Jellicle Ball fits that completely. The Strange Loop doesn't fit that as much for me. That is a heavy show like an amazing and excellent show. But that's a little bit more of a a tougher experience because it's it is so thoughtful and, and heavy. But Jellicle Ball I falls in that realm for me, that you walk out with such energy and a good time and you catch something different.

And I love bringing people to stuff as well. And I've done the same thing where I've brought a friend who wants to see it just because they haven't been like, fine, I'll get the tickets, we'll go whenever you want. I'll be there. And I love that you do that with with your friends and family. And is there anything that like you warn them before they walk into the Jellicle Ball? Like how much do you tell them because Cats is so, so unique of a and polarizing of a show but Jellicle Ball is a little bit easier to follow. Do you give them like a briefing before they go?

[13:07] Jordan Stefanski: Just cold walk in and see what you get. I mean, it always depends on the show I'm taking them to see. So like, obviously, like shows like, like I've taken people to like, you know, A Strange Loop, I kind of have to give them context beforehand. Oh, Mary, I give them like one sentence because I don't want to spoil all the jokes. Cats: The Jellicle Ball, I basically tell them that, yes, it is the musical Cats. No, they are not dressed as cats. And most of my friends are gay, unsurprisingly. So it's just like, so I just tell them, it's like, have you watched Pose or Paris is Burning? If they say yes, I'm like, okay, it's very, very similar to that. Plus, also you have Junior LaBeija in there. If they say no, I say, we can't be friends again, go do your gay homework and come back to me.

[14:06] Mike Abrams: Okay, I think that's, I mean, I think that's fair. Like I, I bring like, a lot of my family is not familiar. And so with either Cats or Ballroom, and so I have to kind of give them a little bit of a rundown of what they're walking into. But I also just simplified it, which is like, you almost don't need to know too much. Like they'll know some of the music and just go in and have fun. Clack your fan and enjoy it. Like it's, it's a good time, whether you understand all the nuances of it or not. And the only time I have deep conversations more about it is with the Cats fans, because I have to kind of give a little bit more of the like, all right, here's the Cats part that you're going to really like.

And here's the part you have to let go of and embrace. And you're still going to really love it because it stays true to a lot of the Cats pieces of it. I mean, I've always encountered more Cats haters than Cats fans. So to me, it's just kind of selling the basic concept, especially because we live in an age where queer theater is under not only under threat, but also it's not seen as much as it should be. And the fact that Jalen and Bill and Omari and Arturo and Queen and all them took the concepts here and turned it into just this massive expression of queer joy in the time we are living in right now. It does, it doesn't deserve to be seen. It demands to be seen like we should be stealing the billboard for Death of a Salesman that says attention must be paid and putting it over the Broadhurst.

[15:44] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, I think that is so, so important. Like this show in this current climate and this time is so important. And I loved seeing how they took something from the pack where, you know, you can be a little bit more experimental downtown and bring something to the masses on Broadway and not just have it well-received, but literally be the hit of the season. Like one of these shows of the season, which was, you know, some of my worries when they transferred was like, how do you keep the energy? How do you keep the intimacy? How do you keep some of the joy in a bigger, broader space? And not only did they do it, I think they expanded on it, which was so cool to see.

[16:26] Jordan Stefanski: Oh yeah. The fact that you are that much closer, like I don't get me wrong. I love that long runway, especially at pack with the curtain call where I would joke with still that whenever they did curtain call, they would go into another jump split and then basically just Swiffer the entire stage with her legs all the way down. And it's like, Oh, stage is clean. But, um, I love that now you feel much closer, but there's no joy dialed down. It's just concentrated more at anywhere you go. Like, yeah, like the original, like the original Cats. Sure. The cats are everywhere in the audience, but they're there to start the party. They're there to get you in there, there to get you feeling in the mood, ready to go have fun. You know, like they're not necessarily all over you. It's basically just like being among a bunch of really cool club kids in the hottest club in midtown. And you forget, you know, 20 minutes in that you're watching a musical.

[17:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah, completely. I think if you eliminated, like if you didn't have the overture, I'm not sure you would even realize you're watching Cats at points. Like it just is, it's, it's, uh, it starts with it where it's like, Hey, this is the same. And then it does veer in a cool way. And, you know, they do in Cats, they walk around and there's a lot of this, like you're in their space. But one thing that was told pretty early on doing this podcast from guests who, you know, have done Cats over the world is that, that you're lucky to be there. They've invited you to their ball and they're just like letting you watch. Whereas I think the Jellicle Ball is much more of like, we want you here and we want you to participate.

Like you're a part of this with us. And you feel that like, I, you know, I've had, I've sat in a lot of different places. I've been a handful of times now and I've sat in a pretty much a different spot every time I've gone. And every time I turn and I'm like, Oh, there's like, Dundee's just standing there. And you know, here's the, you know, there's all of a sudden I turn and there's somebody else walking out. And so they, they really do utilize the whole space super well. And, you know, you'll see different, you'll see little, again, same thing at the pack, wherever you sat, there was always something that you caught that the next time around you missed, but you caught something else. And so it's like, you're going back and almost assembling all of the pieces to the puzzle.

[19:07] Jordan Stefanski: I know you just mentioned the overture though. You said like, you know, if they cut the overture, they wouldn't forget it. So Saturday night, I went day before pride. And I was in the box next to DJ Griddlebone, Ken Ard. And, you know, all this time, like I couldn't really see, I think it was Capital Chaos who did it downtown. I didn't really see up in the DJ box. I usually were there, but they were just kind of peripheral, but here they made, you know, Griddle like DJ into Griddlebone into a full fleshed out character. But I always wondered, I'm like, what exactly is he doing up there? And I got to see it firsthand that he's got the DJ set up and the drum machine, but he's got his own set of choreo.

And he's singing hits full lungs out. Like, you know, yes, DJ Griddlebone is kind of a side character. He doesn't have his own, you know, song or introduction. He is kind of like, you know, the first mate of Monkey Strap, but he has his own track. And like, if you're going to see it, don't take your eyes off the DJ, like don't sleep on him. He's got some good stuff going up on there.

[20:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah. He, I mean, he has an entire thing. I sat the last time I went, I ended up with a mezzanine lottery ticket. So, uh, you know, a friend had gone, uh, one lottery just was like, let's go. And, and saw it. And I was pretty close to that box. I was, I was over on that side. And like you said, it's not just the intro when the spotlight's on him, but he's got stuff the whole time. He interacts with the people in the box next to him. I love that when the police comes out, he grabs his phone. He grabs his phone when the police comes out and starts filming, like he's got an entire thing. And like, that's utilizing, you know, a Broadway star to their, to their best ability. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died.

[21:07] Mike Abrams: You've seen it in so many different spots and like, there's obviously no bad seat in this house, but if you're bringing somebody for their first time, do you have a preferred spot you want to sit?

[21:17] Jordan Stefanski: Well, I've been telling all my friends, the worst seat in the house is if you're out on the street and not in the building. Fair. But I will say the one, I mean, the one I did have to stand. So for context, I am six foot eight. So seats are uncomfortable in like 90% of Broadway theaters. Sometimes I got to just suck it up and deal with it. I will say one time I did, I was in the little standing room section because I just could not bet in my seat. But I like I got to stand up. But after that first act where you're just popping and dancing along, I had like my feeling of like the clubbing needs like that day after Oh, no, I shouldn't have danced that hard. How am I going to survive act two? But I honestly, I liked the boxes the most.

Yeah, those boxes like those are to me, the premium seats. And they have a price at a steal. Because it's two or three people. You have your own leg room. You know, the cast comes up there and play but you have a bird's eye view of the entire show, including like some of the more epic well lit choreographed moments. It's, it's basic, like, it kind of feels like, you know, one of the West End theaters like they have like, the queen's box and the king's box and those boxes, like, that's what it feels like to be at those cabaret tables.

[23:04] Jordan Stefanski: Because also, the added benefit is that sometimes where you're, you know, depending on where you're sitting in the orchestra or mezzanine, you might miss a little bit of VJ and some, obviously, I said some fun stuff goes on there. But also, sometimes you'll miss and it took a couple trips for this iteration for me to realize. Junior LaBeija is doing as Gus, he is in the house right front most box. And he has interactions with some of the cats, mostly Jelly Lorem. And in between death glares, he's doing basically just one continuous hands performance. And you see him just sort of, it almost looks like he's manipulating the action on the stage. They're very long nails, this sort of just like spectral figure in the shadows.

But he, but you feel his presence. And he, you know, it's, it's almost magnificent to watch as knowing Junior, like, knowing Junior is a ballroom legend. And, you know, the architect of 10s, 10s, 10s across the board, and to see him in a musical that is, that wouldn't necessarily exist if it weren't for him and the other forebears of ballroom culture. Like, to me, that's, that's just one of the gifts that I feel like I get every time I go because it's like, I'm watching history.

[24:44] Mike Abrams: Completely. And he never calls out. He's like, always there. And yeah, I mean, he's sitting for most of the show.

[24:54] Jordan Stefanski: Yeah, he is. I think like you're totally right on the boxes because you're either sitting next to Kennard, who's a original Broadway Cats performer, or you're sitting next to Junior LaBeija for most of the show in those boxes. And you get to see without doing too much spoilers. There's a cool part of the Jellicle Ball that you get to see there's a cool part of the the ending that you get to see that you have a really good shot of that you have almost a better shot of sometimes some of the back orchestra, even though you know, it obviously all comes around. I am a sucker for that Jellicle Ball. Like, like after half like once that beat drops, and whoever's playing the cavity, whether it's Laomi or Kaya, once they go the 234, you hear the vamp up the lighting changes.

Oh, God, it's it just it, it hits you. And it's, it's just a marvel to watch. Like, like you, you don't see dancing and bending. And like, on any Broadway stage like that, like, no mere mortal could do what some of those people are doing it for sure. And it's

[26:15] Jordan Stefanski: It's so cool because The Jellicle Ball is such a well-known piece of choreography. And what Omari and Arturo did is take, you know, pay homage to that while creating their own thing and making it ballroom. And it's so well done. And I love that, you know, the Cats fans that have seen it have been able to come in and still see, you know, the moments that they have that are still, you know, Jillian Lynn and paying homage to that, but also something new and different, which is it's it's so well done. Exactly. You have those little homages, especially when you see. And again, not getting too much into spoilers during the overture, the windows, the warehouse windows on the stage or the screen surrounding the mezzanine, obviously, if you can't turn your neck all the way around and see if you're on the stage, it shows that just transition, that it's paying homage to the past while evolving into this new creature. It's honor, like it's honoring its predecessor while claiming its own space.

[27:22] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[27:23] Jordan Stefanski: And I got it's it's it's it really is. I never I never thought I would be ever in my life saying that Cats was a magical experience. But I mean, after that first production that half like intermission, I went back down to the box office and bought three more tickets so I was I was all in. I mean, I finally brought my mother a couple of weeks ago after a couple of months of convincing and she had a blast like she loved it. Like because I told her, I'm like, no, they're not going to crawl over you. It's not it's not cats, not the cats you like. It's like Pose. I remember like you remember you liked Pose when I told you about it. And Sidney playing Rum Tum Tugger at one point, he was coming down the aisle and he was dancing up against me. And my mother turned around and joked and looked at him and then turned to me and joked and said, she's like, OK, so that's why you've been coming back so many times.

[28:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yep.

[28:31] Jordan Stefanski: Just Team Tugger all the way. But also they have, you know, when you when you have the swings on, I got to give major credit to the swings and the ensembles who play like eight hundred and fifty different roles, but also the two dance captains. So it's Bryce and Bryce Farris and Deva Huesca, who Deva usually plays Rumpleteazer. But the two of them, like, are just freakishly versatile. I've now seen Bryce in four different tracks and he just kind of melts into every single one. Last night I saw him as Victoria and him opposite Primo during tag team performance. Bryce was wearing his tumble brood, his costume with Primo, and it was it was actually very like it was almost iconic to watch because they look like, you know, the double mint twins, like they looked exactly the same.

And I looked down like, oh, that is a tag team performance right there because they are both very skilled. But also going over to Deva, Deva is I I call her. She's like the like she's the dance assassin of the show because Muggle Jerry and Rumpleteazer, they're not necessarily the people that are the cats that people are rooting for because you can kind of see throughout the show they're not they're not really well liked. And the fact I say this as somebody who lives in New Jersey, the fact that they place them as New Jersey residents does offend me a little bit. But when you're paying attention to Deva for the rest of the show, when she's leading the Jellicle Ball or one time I saw her do silk specialty split during the first part of the Jellicle Ball, the girl doesn't stop. She can she like again, I mean, you don't sleep on the whole cast, but like you really like if you're paying attention, you can find every diamond you want in the coal mine here.

[31:01] Mike Abrams: Completely.

[31:02] Jordan Stefanski: Deva, I mean, she obviously is incredible. I had her on the show. What I love is I love when she gets to do like when, again, I won't spoil, but she gets to do a part with Emma at the end with Skimbleshanks towards the end of the show where you get to really see like a ton of her dancing just like featured. And then I saw Bryce as Tumble Brutus the last time I went. And Bryce jumped into some dips that I was like, how do you physically do this without like hurting yourself? Like it just was it was so athletic and impressive and kind of like took my breath away a little bit. And I'm with you. I love the I love seeing understudies. I think it's such a cool, especially if you've seen the show before.

It's a cool way to see different takes on the same thing. And for somebody like you, when you've seen it 50 plus times, like it's got to be amazing to watch the minor changes that are really cool, like just it's their own personal take on the character versus just trying to recreate what the other person's doing.

[32:04] Exactly. Like when I like that's why I've gone like and that's a big reason why I repeat shows is when you have the understudies and swings on and the director has done their job, you will get an entirely different show. That's what happened with a strange loop. That's what happens with Omeri. That's what happens with the Jellicle ball because, like I say, you can insert Bryce into like I joke that he has literally played every role at this point except Grizabella and the ticket taker. So like I it's just amazing to watch and see what they do. I was also there the week that they had all the the week of the Tony nomination that we Andre was out. So they had Puma and can go on as old Deuteronomy, so I hit swingo with all three of the old Deuteronomy's and again, three diametrically different performances, but all just very, very regal in their own way.

[33:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I think it's it's so fun because it's like you're you're going back for many reasons, bringing new people, seeing different versions of it and then just experiencing the joy I have to ask now that Cats has been like non Jellicle ball. Cats has been making a little bit of a resurgence in a lot of places around the country and is about to start overseas in London. Has this sparked your interest into seeing a, you know, cat cat version of cats?

[33:44] Jordan Stefanski: You know, I actually haven't given it much thought. I know they have the I think it's circus themed Cats opening in London. It's I think it's a production at Regent's Park, which is the theater you've ever been.

[34:01] Mike Abrams: I have I have my tickets already. I'm going in August and I don't know if it's I haven't figured out much about their they've been a little cagey with what they're sharing. So I'm not sure if it's circus, it's outdoors. We're not sure if it's actually in Cats costume. I mean, hopefully it's going to be outdoors.

[34:17] Jordan Stefanski: Yeah, yeah. No, I'm saying like it's outdoors. So it's like I don't know if they're going to lean into to that different piece of it, but I my goal is I'm in touch with trying to to get some episodes with them to to get a little bit more. But there's there's a bunch of, you know, a couple of weeks productions happening all over the country to where you get a regional theater or or even smaller at times doing their own their own little production of Cats, which is fun.

[34:41] Mike Abrams: So is it something that you're not interested?

[34:44] Jordan Stefanski: No, I wouldn't say I'm not interested. It's that usually by the time I hear about them, they've already kind of come and gone.

[34:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah. OK, that's fair.

[34:52] Jordan Stefanski: Around because if they're around the country, it's like, OK, get up or go. Like it's easy for me to just kind of, again, where I live, just go in, go to New York, go to the ball, have a ball, go home. Yeah. To go and see a show, you know, across the country. It's like, do I like it's like I want to be able to support shows. It's just, you know, a logistical nightmare. So I mean, I'm not averse to it, like especially like if you have somebody who has invested time in reconceiving a show. Like this, I would like I would be definitely interested in seeing it. I saw a tweet that made the rounds that says if it's it's something I'm paraphrasing here, but it's like if it's one thing that 2020s have taught us, it's that Andrew Lloyd Webber's musicals are not meant to be enjoyed as originally intended.

[36:10] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[36:10] Jordan Stefanski: They are getting a little bit of a fun renaissance, which is which is great, and I've shouted this out at the opening night, but like kudos to him for embracing it, because some of these have been like they still stay true to what he created. It's not like they're saying, oh, what you we don't like what you put together. It's like we loved what you put together and we want to use it in a different way. And he's, you know, embraced it with all these different things with Evita and Sunset and all the other, you know, Starlight was a slightly different and all these other ways he's allowing it to be brought to life, which I commend a ton because it's very easy to be the opposite, which is like this is my baby. I created this. I don't want anybody to touch it. And he's really leaned into that.

[36:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, like I saw that Starlight Express in London. And again, I I had I I only knew of it as basically cats as trains. But I when I went to the show, I had it. It was my last show in like a 13 show run in London and eight days. And I'm thinking, I'm like, again, either it's going to be absolutely terrible or, you know, going to be fantastic to watch. And I like I don't usually try to speak that black and white. But something about Andrew Lightweather's work really makes me think that way. I don't know why. But that production of Starlight Express in the Percuss Built Theater, feeling all of the whiz by me. I was I was enraptured. Like, again, it was like watching. It was like being in the middle of a almost like a like a futuristic kind of sci fi film.

I mean, I loved it. I saw it. Same thing. I saw the last one of a multiple show trip and I was there for Wimbledon. So I was like I had gone to tennis and then a couple of shows. And this is the end right before I flew home the next day. Funny enough, I ran into Bill Roush, the director of the Joke Ball, one of the co-directors in the lobby, also seeing the show just like happened. And this was like just after the like we were a little ways into the pack production. So it's like I had met him and we talked a few times, but just I didn't know him as well as I do now at that point. And it's just like there he is in the lobby. And at first I was like, this can't be like this can't actually be like I don't know anybody in London.

And then I talked to him and we had a really funny conversation of like, yeah, we're both at this other Andrew Lloyd Webber show. But same thing. It's such a fun, like, again, fun production. It is cats on wheels. It's it's a very, very similar storyline.

[38:36] Mike Abrams: We're going to take a quick break and the way back for more of the wrong cat died. Let's move to some rapid fire to round us out.

[38:41] Jordan Stefanski: OK, so if you could play one cat in the Joker ball, who do you want to go on as?

[38:49] Jordan Stefanski: I honestly would love to be I mean, as much as I would love to be any of the major dancer tracks, I know I would absolutely break myself into pieces if I tried any of those. I think I would want to be like either either Bustopher Jones or Gus, the theater cat.

[39:12] Mike Abrams: OK, well, let me ask this question of if I can't do any of these things, I can't sing, I can't dance, so just if you could do it all, which one would you want to do?

[39:23] Jordan Stefanski: I love it. I love it. From a personality standpoint, who would be your favorite cat to hang out with and your least favorite cat to hang out with from the Jellicle Ball?

[39:48] Jordan Stefanski: Cat to hang out with? Hmm. Well, I wouldn't want to hang out with Bombalurina. Because in this iteration, she's just, she's just shady boots. Like, I don't think I, like, I don't think I see her do anything nice in this. I think, like, you know, she's clapping and tugging her face and giving Tugger, you know, a load of a bunch of crap. And then she's, you know, committing theft and all that, like, you know, like, Bombalurina is very much an unsavory individual. If I had to pick the one I would want to hang out with, I think I would have to say, I'm split, I'm split between two. I would want to hang out with Tugger. Because Tugger, as much as he is very self-involved, you know, as hot as he knows it type, he can also be the greatest hype man.

Like, I feel like going out with Tugger to, you know, a gay bar in Hell's Kitchen or in the West Village, you know, and like, he would be like, Oh, yeah, like, I know I'm good. But my friend over here, like Tugger, Tugger has major wingman energy. But the other would be Jenny Any Dots, because Jenny Any Dots and I are very, very similar. Like, we both just have that sort of like, cranky, neurotic, maternal energy. And I feel like if we ran a house, like, I feel like we could run that house together. And, you know, she runs that house like the Navy. And honestly, I respect it.

[42:46] Jordan Stefanski: Yeah, I agree with all that. Favorite song in the show? So I love, I mean, I love the orchestrations for the main Jellicle Ball, especially when the beat drops. I wouldn't say if that's my favorite song, I would have to go with it changes up. But right now, it is Mungo Jerry and Rumpleteazer. Okay, my answer changes every time I see the show. So that's, it's a hard question. So I'm always like, what's today? What's the answer today? Because a lot of times it'll be just the title number because it's at that point when it goes quiet before it goes into the big, big first voguing choreographic moment. That just again, just feels like a shot of adrenaline right in your body. But Mungo Jerry and Rumpleteazer gets stuck in my head more often than I want to admit.

And also, again, in the current iteration, with their costume reveal for the tag team performance, there seems to be a piece of the orchestration when they come out. It almost sounds like a little bit like New York, New York. And I hear it, and I think, what a clever homage, like, it's acknowledging that this, you know, space is in New York City. It has that big, you know, take line showgirl energy before going into, you know, that underground ballroom mode.

[44:30] Jordan Stefanski: So true. It does have the little Victoria Grove, New Jersey, like piece to it, which is very smart. If you were in one of the houses, which house would you be? House of Dots, House of Macavity, House of Glamour?

[44:43] Jordan Stefanski: I don't think I mean, we don't know much about House of Glamour. I mean, well, I don't think I know much about House of Glamour. Maybe that's something I'll pay attention to on the next round. But I think I would be, I wouldn't be Macavity because let's be honest, I would not be good at a felony. I think I would, if I had to pick of the houses that are there, I would say House of Dots because again, like I said, Jenny Any Dots, you know, my grandmother was from Puerto Rico. So every time I see Jenny Any Dots like run in with an iron fence, I'm just imagining my grandmother. But also, I would love to actually be in the lineage of Gus and Monkeystrap, because I feel like that role to me as a person, that I have a very large outsized presence.

And I can, you know, I'm very charismatic. And they are the common, like, they're the commentators, they keep things moving. But they don't always necessarily want to draw the attention to themselves. And I think the Gus and Monkeystrap lineage, that fan, that house, that would be where I would, where I think would firmly belong.

[46:05] Jordan Stefanski: I think, yeah, I think that there's probably more houses than they announced. So I think that that's a good answer. My last question is, obviously, I've argued at length, and that's what the show started about that I didn't think Grizabella was the right choice. Very different production. And since you haven't seen, besides the 2019 movie Cats, the other kind of version of Cats, who is your choice? And why?

[46:32] Jordan Stefanski: I wouldn't pick Grizabella only because I think her, although in this context, her story arc does make sense. She is looking for that sort of redemption and you see Old Deuteronomy and Gus kind of trying to guide her back into the flock. Gus seems like the most logical second choice, but Junior looks like he's having way too much fun to be sent off to whatever liminal space the Heaviside Layer is. So I think my third, and I think my definitive choice going off the board of it is Jenny Any Dots. Because she is a house mother. She raises her kids. She makes sure that, you know, they're looking for employment, they're practicing their routines, they're dressed properly. She's ironing their clothes like she is a tried true blue mother.

And I think one thing about society is that we don't really acknowledge the unspoken labor of mothers in the household. And I mean, the old Gumby Cat song in this show does kind of show that she is, you know, mother of the year, but mother of the year in the ballroom context, like, yeah, that you can keep your house together, but what does it take to keep a house together? And it's showing all of those little things in that one number, like those things that people would probably not normally see in the ballroom space, but occur outside. So, you know, again, like ironing the clothes, you know, making sure Mungojerrie takes the joint out of his mouth, things like that. I think she would, I think she would deserve to go up to the Heaviside Layer and be able to come back and mother the next generation.

[48:43] Jordan Stefanski: I love the rationale too. I think it makes a lot of sense. And it is true. You see a little bit of it if you're paying. So next time somebody, if you're listening to this and you go see the show, if you're paying attention before that battle, you really do see her doing the like motherly get Cassandra ready type of stuff that is, it's almost like, you know, it is truly the motherly need to get her on stage and to win. And so I love.

[49:17] Jordan Stefanski: Yeah, it's just one step from like being like Kris Jenner holding up the camera phone and be like, you're doing great, sweetie.

[49:22] Mike Abrams: Exactly. It is exactly that. So I'm pro Jenny Any Dots for this choice. So this has been so fun. I have loved hearing. I mean, obviously you've talked a little bit about this before shows and stuff, but not at this level of depth. And I've loved hearing the, you know, the why behind you're seeing it so much and the way you think about it and just your love for the show. And I hope people that listen to this see that like the show does bring that much joy to people. And you know, if you haven't seen it yet, you've got to go. And I'm sure if you go, probably one of us will be there. So come find us and come say hi. And cause the chances are that one of us will be at this show anyways. Nice me from my social media at the show.

And I get a little flustered because it's just like, Oh, you're the one who's here all the time. And in my head, I'm like crap, but like, it's been a coming to terms with, you know, cause I bristle at the idea of being a quote unquote super fan. I feel like it's a dirty word. I just prefer being somebody who loves to patronize good, well-crafted theater. And if it means that I am seeing a 40, 50, 800,000 times, that's my way of appreciating good art is going back and dragging everybody I know and their mother with me, especially queer theater, especially black theater, looking outside of the box that I exist in as, you know, a white presenting man with male privilege, this gender, the theater that is always outside of my own lived experience is almost always the best theater that I could see.

[51:12] Mike Abrams: I agree with that completely. And I think that is a wonderful way for us to close this cause it is spot on. So it has been a joy to have you on. Thank you so much. I'm glad we finally got to do this.

[51:23] Jordan Stefanski: Yeah, me too. It's been so nice trying to finally have an opportunity to explain myself and now people can finally understand, Hey, why do you keep going back? Do you have a problem? And it's like, no, no, no. Listen to this podcast. You'll know why.

[51:45] Mike Abrams: You know what? I've never thought you've needed the why. I'm here. I've always believed that like, if it gives you joy and it doesn't harm anybody else, have at it. And so resorted to telling people too. It's like, it brings me joy. Like I know it brings you joy. You know, we're not the same person.

[52:01] Jordan Stefanski: Yeah. Well, this has been so fun. So thank you for coming on and thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, but if anywhere else you listen to podcasts, follow us on social media, The Wrong Cat Died or check our website, thewrongcatdied.com.