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[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She was an understudy in CATS: The Jellicle Ball at the Permanent Performing Arts Center before the Broadway transfer, and she's about to head out on the national tour of Six as Anne of Cleves. So welcome, Shelby Griswold. Thank you for joining me.

[0:33] Shelby Griswold: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. It's such a treat to get to talk about Cats whenever I get the chance. And yeah, catching me right before tour, so party time.

[0:45] Mike Abrams: I cannot wait. I'm so excited. Because actually, I mean, I didn't know a ton about your career until The Jellicle Ball, and then I've followed it and I've seen you in Juliet. And now I'm excited for you to be on tour in Six. And because I love those shows. But let's start with Cats. Before The Jellicle Ball, what was your Cats history? When did you first see it?

[1:07] Shelby Griswold: So it's actually so embarrassing because my Cats history prior is like nothing. Almost zero. I've never seen a production. My brain has some memories of, I think, my high school locally in Florida, in Orlando, where I grew up, did Cats when I was in elementary or middle school, I think. And we maybe saw some of it, but it's hard to remember. And then I've never seen a professional production of it. I remember seeing the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade performance of Cats like years ago, because I was that kid who lived for the parade every year. And that was like my only stitch of Broadway at some time. So I'll never forget that. They did Memory. And I was like, oh, she's gray and sad and singing her face off.

And then funny, you mentioned Carrie Renee Fuller earlier. And she actually went to the same college that I did. We did not go to school at the same time, but we both went to Baldwin Wallace University. And her video, oh, what is the company that does the like, they're like in a room and it's lights and they're out of costume and they just like sing on a microphone, one of the songs from their show. And she there's this video of her singing Memory from Cats. And it's like, very iconic to me. And I like saw it everywhere. And that was it. And Cats for me was always like, I have literally never seen the original theater movie. And I did not see the movie with Taylor Swift in it, James Corden, because everyone told me I didn't need to.

And it served as this thing that I was like, well, maybe when I'm older, I'll play Grizabella one day. But until then, like, it's just not a show I'm going to be in because you have to look good in a unitard and point your toes. And like, those are things that I don't, not entirely sure that someone's going to hire me to do. Which, you know, maybe I was underserving myself. But I just was like, I just don't think I'm going to be in Cats ever, until I'm like, in my 40s or 50s. So that's, that's, that's a problem for Shelby of tomorrow. And yeah, so Cats, The Jellicle Ball was my first time, like, even listening to the soundtrack of Cats start to finish.

[3:17] Mike Abrams: That's, it's wild to me, because it's like, you're a theater person. Like, you have that background and you studied it. And it's like, it feels like a piece that everybody in that world would do. And I've learned over time that that's not actually the case. It's like, there are plenty of people that either ignored it, hated it, just didn't end up, I think you didn't ignore or hate, you just didn't get in front of you in those moments.

[3:41] Shelby Griswold: No, I think it also like, generationally, it really depends. Like, I put myself, I would say the generation of like, Legally Blonde and Shrek the Musical are like, and like Thoroughly Modern Millie, that's like, so early 2010, like early 2000s into 2010s musical theater. Like, Legally Blonde was the first soundtrack that I ever purchased to play on an iPod. Like, I was using iTunes at like, 11. So like, I just kind of skipped some things, I think. And like Cats, my parents were in high school in the 80s. And like, my mom loves Cats, and she really enjoyed it. But like, I don't know, it just never, it never was something that was like, considered musical theater, like, a must see, must watch for me, which is like crazy to think about in hindsight, because everyone thinks of it as like, iconic, but the only song I even could like pluck from my brain from the show was either Memory or Macavity, maybe Magical Mr. Mistoffelees, but like everything else, I was like, sorry.

I didn't grow up the theater kid. And so I didn't like, I knew Memory. And I realized after a while, it's just because my mom played on the piano. Like it was, I knew the tune. I didn't know the lyrics. But I didn't, because of that, I didn't grow up with the 1998 movie or the like, you know, that ProShot. And so that's kind of where I'm surprised that even that didn't end up like, in school or in any singing or dance, you know, classes type of thing.

[5:08] Shelby Griswold: I think I just maybe was around people who just didn't like it. Because I'm like, we watched like Newsies in middle school. We like watched some movie musicals. I watched Mary Poppins. I have memories of like, watching that original when I was really young. But yeah, Cats just never made its way. I think my, people in my family like hate Cats as like, we're like dog people. Yeah. So like, maybe it was a subconscious like, we're not, we're not doing that.

[5:34] Mike Abrams: No, we're not. We're not here for this. Okay. Well, so then fast forward to like, getting like, even hearing about The Jellicle Ball, because at that point, like when I first heard about it was early workshops, when they started putting casting notices out, and that kind of went viral. And the beauty of having this podcast is everyone sends me anything cast related multiple times. And so I learned about it probably two years before I hit the stage. And I talked to Bill and I emailed Bill and I was kind of like, I'm tell me more. And he's like, let's see where this goes. So when did your introduction to the production happen?

[6:10] Shelby Griswold: Right. So I'm like, really behind the power curve there as well. So I think, I think I might have also like, perhaps those casting notices went out when like, I kid you not, I was doing Six on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean or something and like, just missed the wave of it kind of like blowing up because I, I had not heard of this production happening until I got my initial audition appointment, which would have been like, January, February, March before we started rehearsals. So like, yeah, pretty, pretty close to what year was that? I was like, what, two years ago now?

[6:44] Mike Abrams: 24, 25.

[6:46] Shelby Griswold: So like, it would have been early 24. And to the point where and you can find it on my TikTok. It's like, I got the audition. And in my mind, I was like Cats. I was like, why am I being called in for Cats? And then I was like, oh, it's ballroom Cats. And I was like, well, that's kind of fun. It's weird. I don't know. I don't really know if that's gonna work. And they kind of, I wish they had given a little bit more explanation of like, what they were looking for, because it, I translated all of their descriptions and stuff as like, I'm just gonna be myself. And if it works for what they want, then great. But I already knew from the audition breakdown that watching clips of Cats, the original like, I was like, this is not going to be helpful.

I was like, there's no way they want me to sing Macavity the way that it's on the soundtrack. Like, I was like, wait, I think they're looking for your own interpretation. So but they were looking for a soprano, which I am not. So I also we had to record Macavity, we had to record the naming of Cats. And we had to record Memory, the like, little ensemble section. And oh, no, the moonlight turn your face. Yeah. And I did the addressing of Cats or the naming, whatever. Yes, it's the addressing of how you address a cat. I don't even remember the names of the songs. They all blend together. And it was the high, high soprano part. And I finished the self tape. And I was like, well, that was horrible.

I was like, that is some of my worst work I've ever done in my life. I was like, I'm only getting called back for this job if they really enjoyed my work on Macavity. And I was so wrapped up in my bad work that I made a TikTok where I was like, hey, everybody, I just did like a random audition for like a random production of Cats that I don't really know what it is. But I kind of didn't love how it went. So I'm going to sing the song again and sing it like the way that I want. And that didn't get any traction. But then cut months later, I like spliced that TikTok and saying where I was like, hey, got a random audition and it went really bad and like random production of Cats and then like cut to my like casting announcement coming out on like the PAC homepage.

And everybody in the comments was like random production of Cats. Shelby, did you not know what you were auditioning for? And I was like, not really. Like I walked in on day one of rehearsal and Sydney James Harcourt was like, so like, you know that this is like probably going to go to Broadway, right? And I was like, wait, really? Like, I was like, oh, that's what we're doing. I just was so along for the ride. I had no idea what was happening. And still to this day, I was when it comes to me being cast for this production. This is when I talk to people about this industry. I was like, often when they're casting, they have to look past like so many very, very talented people because they're looking for a very specific solution to a problem.

And so in this case, they were they had to fill certain holes in the cast of simply because they had done workshops with people they liked. And then some people booked other jobs or some people left or Angeloid Weber made decisions about characters and how they needed to be presented. And so people had to get moved around and they were left with holes in coverage and on stage. So they emailed me like, I mean, like, maybe three weeks before rehearsal started, they were like, by the way, Shelby's still in the mix. We just don't know for what track yet. And then I didn't get my official like offer until like a week, week and a half before rehearsal started. And it was just like, like, I walked out of my final callback for it like, well, maybe I got that.

Maybe I didn't. I don't really know. And then like months go by and I really was like, OK, I guess I didn't get it. And then it just for whatever reason, they decided that to trust me enough based upon what they saw in the auditions to take on the coverage. The hot take is that I think some people at PAC, like, kind of didn't think that understudies were going to go on. So it was like, you know,

[10:46] Mike Abrams: And then you went on a whole lot.

[10:47] Shelby Griswold: Like a whole lot. Like and I was just like covering tracks and roles that asked for things that like, like Victoria had to do a cartwheel. And I was like, they didn't ask me to do a cartwheel in my audition. They didn't ask me to do a dip in my audition. Like they had no idea if I could actually make any of that happen. They just said to trust the vibe, I guess. So, yeah. And then my first time reading the script of Cats was when they sent the like the like working script to everyone who'd booked the job. I was like, I guess I should read the script before I go to rehearsals, just so I like kind of know what the show is about. Because I like actually didn't know the plot of Cats at this time.

And I'll never forget, I got like chills just reading the like stage direction breakdown of the Overture and how they had the, which was Primo and Tumblebrutus like silhouette. And they like described, oh, they come out in a cat costume and then shed the layers to like show that this is like not a story about actual cats and it's something else entirely. And then the stage direction for at the end when Macavity like looks at the audience and is like, oh, there's a man over there. But it's like, oh, he doesn't know what a jellicle cat is. And they go, what's a jellicle cat? And then they're like, and we're going to show you. And yeah, I just was like, from that moment, I was like, it's going to be brilliant.

And I think this actually might work. And just every song after that, I kept reading and reading and reading and every single choice. I was like, it works. I don't know how they got here, but it works. So when you got there, I mean, you read the script, you read the poems. Did you like, how did you prep for the ballroom elements and aspect coming from the theater world and also just like Cats in general? Like, did you watch the movie at that point? Or did you just read the script?

[12:34] Shelby Griswold: I still have not watched the movie. I still have not watched the bro shot. I actually kind of love it feels like such a random, pure gift that most of my knowledge of Cats is through The Jellicle Ball and The Jellicle Ball only because it feels like a more, it fixed a lot of the problems. So to me, I have so much like love for Cats now as opposed to like distant judgment. And I don't really want to change that. I'll probably watch the movies eventually when I have time. But I wish I had had more time to prepare to be honest, because like some of the other understudies or some of the other music.

[13:11] Shelby Griswold: I was hired, like, knew ahead of time enough to, like, go to classes. And because my casting was so late in the game, like, I did not have time to, like, book a ballroom class and, like, learn how to catwalk or do a dip. So, like, I showed up on day one going, like, I hope I can make this work. Like, I come from dance, technically. Like, I started in dance class first. So, I have a lot of comfort in movement and, like, I am a strong mover, but I am, like, no way, shape or form claiming to be a dancer first. And this CATS, the Jellicle Ball was certainly the hardest dance job I've ever had to do and, like, definitely pushed me to do a movement. I was basically learning a new movement style for the first time and learning, like, new vocabulary and new ways of moving my body that I had never done before.

So, they understood that. So, we did, like, day one of rehearsal. They kind of split us off into groups and, like, there was a group of us that were sort of clearly a bunch of people who, like, were like, well, we think all of you have never done ballroom before, so we're going to start you over here. And you're going to learn fundamentals while then we start with, like, a medium group. And then they had their advanced group of, like, you know, the girlies who were twirling and dramatic dipping and doing all the things. But, yeah, I mean, I love a challenge and I certainly got one. And I figured it out by the end, but it was very, very stress-inducing. So, that was some prep. And then, technically, the, like, Cot Booth singer track that I covered was a soprano.

Like, I, this is probably the healthiest my voice has ever been, was singing this score, because it was, I usually am hired to do, like, kind of pop rock, big belty, rock skelty stuff. And so, this was one of the first times in my professional career where I was having to sing, like, legit soprano content, even just in the ensemble backing vocals. But it was very, it was a nice break. I was in that booth. I was like, oh, she's so, she's so warm. The range is so high. It's like, wow. But, yeah, as far as pre-rehearsal preparation goes, pretty much nothing. We were fine by the seat of our pants. But then it became very clear after day one that I was like, I'm going to have to lock in.

[15:22] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I think, like, again, I'm not a dancer. I'm not a singer. I don't know any of this stuff. But it does feel like the ballroom movement, it's a different, it's like a different style to different dance. It's just like trying to learn jazz versus hip hop versus this versus that. Like, there's so many different versions, and it is its own thing. So even if, you know, the best dancers would still have to really learn something new.

[15:46] Shelby Griswold: Yes. No, even if you were super, super trained commercial dancer. I mean, these days, it's the lines are a little blurrier. Like, that show wasn't necessarily going to be in the business of hiring like a ballerina type. And if you're someone who is maybe more of like a commercial dancer from LA, like you probably have taken like a heels class or you've taken a ballroom inspired hip hop class. But they even across the entire board of the Delco Ball, they tried to bring people and have actors and have people on the team to make sure that we were building it from the most authentic place possible. So there was also like, even if they had hired someone that like maybe has tried to do a catwalk in their bedroom after watching drag race, like, that's maybe not the same actual real technique of how it like should be done based upon the roots of where real ballroom culture comes from.

And so there was like, I tried to be very aware and respectful of that from the jump of like, you're learning, it's like, you're learning a new movement style that like it was created by black and brown queer people in the world of ballroom. And like, I was one of two white actors in the show at the time and like, invited into the space and being asked to like join in this like beautiful, joyful culture that they have. And so yeah, I think there's just a lot of like reverence in that as well. So it was a delicate thing. The thing that I probably struggled with the most though, like beyond the technical aspect of it, is that a part of ballroom is improv. There's like a whole part of it that is like, you're just kind of going out there and flinging it like you can rehearse sequences and you can rehearse things but you don't know who you're competing with that at a real ball like until it's happening.

So you're just working around each other and you're just working the space and you're, oh, the tables over here and then the tables over there and like, so it definitely the off Broadway production I think was very informative to everybody about how that works for the people that that works for. But when it comes to when it comes to doing a commercial musical where you are hiring trained musical theatre performers to come in and be understudies, meaning I'm going to go stand where you stand where for safety purposes and lighting purposes and everything about this, where you stand needs to be the same spot every night. So we got to have to set that and it like took a long time sometimes for everyone to realize that some stuff was going to have to be set and stuff that they were like, well, why can't I just make it up every night?

And it's like, well, some things you can put there's going to be some things that like, we know for the sake of everyone and how an eight show a week full produced musical works like that has to be locked and loaded. So even down to like, I think all of my tracks had some sort of solo dance moment or movement where I physically couldn't create the same shapes that the person I was covering could create just because I'm not the same person, body, dancer, mover background. So then like the entire Victoria solo, I had to just take whatever baby and the choreographers created together and like, on my own time book a studio at Ripley and like make up my own version. Like I was like filming myself in the corner doing the dance and going, okay, that looks really good.

And then having a moment where I'm like, I tried to do what she does and it looks horrible. So we're going to shift it to this other thing. And they were all okay with that because that's ballroom. They were like, well, you show up and you do your best moves. And it's just like it was a whole as me, I love being told what to do, and then selling it. Like I love the challenge as an actor of I'm an interpreter, you give me material and then I tell the story. But I don't write, I don't choreograph. That's not my job. So it was definitely a learning curve for me as far as like, the confidence to take up space in a certain way and do it and like, knowing that I had to do work outside of rehearsal of building my own stuff so that when the time came, we knew what to do.

[19:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's interesting to hear that too, because Cats is such a, to me a show that has so much open ended interpretation to begin with, that you do have probably more freedom of movement, even in non Jellicle ball cats, because there's like, there's the like you said, there's got to be something set for safety purposes and lighting purposes and stuff. But then there's a lot that doesn't have to be and especially like the moments when there were cats and kittens on the side during somebody else's number, they're still on stage, but and so it is like, it's unique to hear you talk about it from that way from the Jellicle ball perspective, where there was a lot of times where it's like, oh, they made a joke and said something to the audience.

And you did this today, and you're sitting over here and you're kind of out of the way. But those other moments you have to do, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died. I am curious here a little bit about the like actual categories and being able to like walk different categories as someone that's like, that is different. That's new. That's not your traditional theater. So what was that experience like for you? Like, did you love a certain category to perform through?

[20:59] Shelby Griswold: I mean, personally, because the dance made me so anxious, like, my favorite track to go on for was Demeter, because the categories that she got to do was just the like labels from a cavity, which is basically walking and looking hot. And then the body category, which is like, you know, you're taking pieces of clothes off. And it's all about sort of like physique, which was stressful for me, but again, just walking. And, and then I we didn't really get to walk it. But like, they have so many different versions of the face category, which is what Grizabella's category was, was face and like, and I just think that's so interesting that like, you just would walk but you're supposed to like show it off.

And one of the cast members at one point through the show, like looked at me one day and was like, Shelby, you could walk big girl face if you wanted to. And I was like, me like in real life. I was so honored. I was like, I don't know if I'll ever go to a ball for real. But I think it's amazing that a you think I should come and be you like think I could compete in something, which is essentially something I was born with, and is working for me. I'm like, okay, thank you. But I think it was also just fun to learn about like, it is a truly a whole, rich, layered culture. And the categories was a big part of that and seeing how many different kinds of categories there were, and like been sub categories of the categories.

Like we like just grazed the surface of all of Rum Tum Tuggers category presentational things. And, and even the body categories get kind of like everything gets kind of like combined for the dog ball, where at a real ball, I mean, real balls go on for hours, because it's like, so many different layers. And then kind of learning about the history of where some of these categories come from and how they developed. And then knowing all of the work that the team did to figure out the right one for the right cat. And then just the wordplay alone of cat to category is like, I don't know, it's just brilliant. And I just was constantly floored at how great it was and how much it worked. And you're like, like, I don't know, I'm just I just love thinking about them at the writer's table being like, okay, Mungojerrie Rumpelteazer, they were like, what's a category with two people?

And they were like tag team performance. And someone's like, great, done. Like, yeah, what? Um, so yeah, I think it, I wonder, for people who don't know anything about categories, if they really understood what Grizabella's category was, and sort of what we were kind of implying there. And sort of why, from the inside perspective, I always felt really moved when she would be singing about, I was beautiful then, and like how her beauty was her entire identity as a competitor, like, as a young person, and then and then it's something that fades over time. And so in the world of ballroom, if you lose the thing that's helping you win and have notoriety, it's like, I don't know, it just was it added so many layers to the storytelling that I'm like, I don't know if people are getting this. I hope they do. Because it's not that deep, but it kind of is. So I don't know, it's fascinating.

[24:16] Mike Abrams: It's another, it's another fun part about cats, though, for me, and why I think the Angelica Ball worked was, thankfully, I had interviewed Bill and Jalen and Will, before the show, before I came, as like a teaser. And I watched Paris is Burning because of them before I came to the first performance. Now, I don't think everybody does that and did and a lot of people came without knowing that. But it was super helpful for me because I walked in really not knowing what to expect. And I was like, I know cats, I know this one version of ballroom and a couple other like very pop culture-y things about it. But that was it. And that really helped a ton. But what I love about the Angelica Ball is like, I know a lot of people that didn't do that.

And they still had the time of their life because it's just fun and energetic. And it reminds me a lot of traditional cats or the other cats, where it's like, you walk in and also don't know what you're walking into, because it's kind of weird and a little strange. And if you don't know the story, well, it's a little confusing, even though it shouldn't be because it's kind of right there for you. And so I think that that was kind of another part where I'm like, yeah, the regular cats is challenging for people. And it doesn't need to be. But you got the ability to go in and still have fun either way and just appreciate what you saw. I'd love to hear before we go to six, like, what are some of your favorite memories from doing it at the pack?

[25:42] Shelby Griswold: Yeah, um, I mean, in general, and I just did a solo show cabaret a few weeks ago at Chelsea Table and Stage. And so I did talk about cats. And my sort of always walk away summary of my experience or it really was so transformative for me. Like there's a before and there's an after it feels like for me as like a human person and a performer like how I approach work and my work and also how I approach like my place in the industry. I think it was important for people to be in spaces.

[26:20] Shelby Griswold: On purpose, where they're in rooms, like, where they're not, where they're surrounded by people that are not like them, that are coming from other life experiences. And to immediately, not only as an understudy, but just like also someone not from ballroom, as one of two white actors in the show at the time. And like the other white actor being Baby, who like really comes from ballroom that I just like constantly felt like I was like, like, I was like, you need to be here as like a sponge. And like, this is an educational experience. And like, everyone here has so much to teach you about being a person and being an artist and like, what storytelling means and what and their story and that's, and their story is the story we were telling.

And so like, I definitely struggled for a bit of how to marry the idea of like, well, I need to show up and do my job, because I'm really good at my job. But that is to be an understudy and know the lines and know where to stand to do the thing. But then there's this other layer of being a cover and a principal cover. And I know now, we're like, but your job is also to sell it. Like your job is to make sure nobody dies on stage, and we the show goes on. But it would be really awesome if people also thought you were an amazing performer. But then I had to figure out a way to tap into this story. I was like, where do I belong in the world of ballroom? Like, I don't, if it feels like it's not my story to tell, then how do I tap in?

And I also was faced with, I consider myself a confident person. And on a part of my mission as a performer is sort of like body positivity and like being a plus size woman in this industry and how that affects my career and like, and how it shouldn't affect my career as much as it does. I was faced with an interesting thing with covering Demeter, who does have to go out there and my costume was different, but I was in like a string bikini top on stage and like a skirt and like that was probably the least I'd ever worn on a stage ever in my life. And, and then playing Victoria, I, my debut day, I like I cried in my dressing room before I went on stage because I was like, Oh, I'm about to go out there in a skin tight, white bedazzled body suit and dance a like slow, sensual, two to three minute solo where I'm not singing and singing is the thing I want people to like, take away from me.

There's no singing, Charlie, you're just dancing. You're just asking people to look at your body and look at the story that it's telling. And mind you, JLo was in the audience for my Victoria debut. So like, just add that as like the cherry on top. I was like, Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, awesome. And I was having an emotional breakdown and it just like, and then I did it and I sold it whenever and then after I think my first or second Victoria show, I got an email from a patron who came to this came to see the show with her daughter. And it was a very lovely, heartfelt email about how like, she was just so happy. She had seen the show already. And this was a second time she was seeing it with a different cast, first time seeing me.

And she's like, I've always struggled like with my weight and my body in this industry and as a performer. And she's like, it was so special to me to like, see you out there being confident and sexy and playful and gorgeous and for my daughter to see that and like how much it moved them. And she was just so happy to see so many different types of bodies on a stage at the same time telling a story. And it helped it clicked something for me that I was like, Oh, there is some there is a place for me to be here. Like I do belong in this story. And there's a world where people are seeing me in the Jellicle ball and being moved and are finding a way to connect to this this other world because it ballroom was a safe haven.

It was a place for people to go who felt who felt like they didn't belong other places. And if you felt you belong there's they open the doors and they said, Come, come here and be free and be whoever you want to be. And that was just a lesson I think I needed to learn as a performer. And it challenged and pushed me so much that I made it through those like really stressful hard moments and then got those sort of affirmations from strangers that I didn't know that I just like, feel so much like peace at like, as a human after that, of like, well, if I can do that I can do anything. And I like took that energy into and Juliet and like, had some crazy cover stories for that as well. And like, was frequently put in some random, like, high stress theater environments that you're just sort of like, everything's gonna be okay.

Like, I'm, I'm good at my job. I'm good at this. I've prepared and I and I deserve to take up space and be a person that tells a story and helps other people feel seen. And yeah, I just really genuinely feel like Cats has changed me forever because of that. And a lot of those memories that are things that stick out to me are the sort of individual connections I made with people. My dressing room was really lovely, and they were very welcoming. And like, I don't know, I just felt really, it's insane how in a room full of so many divas, right? Like, you don't win a ball without ego. Like you don't win a ball without being a star. But that meant there was a lot of that star power energy constantly like battling each other in the rehearsal room and a lot of tension and a lot of drama frequently.

But everyone in Cats has been in a situation where they felt othered. They felt a sense of otherness and a sense of maybe there's I'm in a space that I don't belong or they don't people don't want me here. And that subconsciously creates a sense of community when they're all together. And you end up learning how much power there is in supporting other people and supporting people to be free and find themselves. And as much as it's like, okay, this is my time to shine. There's also the knowledge that Oh, that's not my category. So I'm going to step back and it's now somebody else's time to shine. And when they're up there, I'm going to give them 110,000% of my support, because they deserve the same amount of love and energy and support that I deserve, you know.

And it's like, it's such a cool thing to experience and see. And I just Yeah, I learned a lot. That was a lot. But that's sort of like, I love it. It's beautiful, too, because it's, it's, I felt the same way, even in the audience. Yeah, there was the most accepting and open audience. In a time where there's a lot of not great audience situations happening all over that crowd always felt like it was having fun and open to each other. But it's also interesting to hear you say what you said, because it transitions very nicely into six, which is a community of people that have like, they want their moment, but it's also coming together of working together. So let's talk a little bit. I mean, I've seen six a ton.

It's been around for many years now, and you're going on tour, probably to some cities that maybe hasn't had six come through. Yeah. So what are you most excited for? And then I'm going to make you cast six as cats. I'm excited. Cleaves is going to be a challenge for me in the sense of like, it's a different pop star energy. I know how to park and bark like I'd love to sit and sing a ballad like an Adele song. But this is tapping into honestly, some energy that I think I learned during cats, the sort of like crowd work and sort of like, like, just be unapologetic and like, love yourself and have a good time. Like she's there to throw a party on Cleaves is there to just make sure everybody is ready to get up on their feet and dance.

And I love that. And I'm like, so excited that my end this my track in the show is like not a very difficult thing. So I'm like, it's gonna be a new experience for me to be doing a job where I'm not stressed about my voice. But I my like primary objective is to literally just like entertain and have fun. It's kind of the dream. Like I'm like, wait, I get paid to sing, dance, wear this like really cute, but dazzled costume thigh high boots and just like have a party. Like couldn't ask for more. So I'm excited for that. And but I am having to like learn some new things about myself, like we're still in rehearsals. And even the other day, I was like, I thought I was doing great. And now I'm doubting all of my life choices.

But ultimately, it's gonna be a blast. And the cast so far is amazing. And we've had a really good vibe going. And I keep joking that I feel like I've joined a sorority because I did not in college. And I that's never really the energy of like the friend group that I had. And girlhood is such an interesting experience. And sometimes with six, you get a cast of a bunch of women that like, they don't really mesh. And then it's kind of like a problem. And then but then I feel lucky that I'm now on my second cast of six and like, both times feel like I've met like my sisters and like, let's just open stairs that way. But I think I think it's gonna be really fun to like, craft this piece together.

And then yeah, share like the message of, of, hey, maybe competing, like, isn't really serving us. And like, maybe we should just be supporting each other. It is a little cheesy, like six is is cheesy. But it it also is like so beloved for a reason. I think it it's a really great starter musical for people to like, if you haven't seen a lot of musical theater, it feels really familiar because there's some moments where you're watching it and you're watching like, light cues, like time to the music and like, choreographed dance moves that you're like, am I watching a concert? Am I watching a music video? And it's like media that we're used to seeing. But then there's all these really heartfelt moments or you listen to the lyrics or some of the lines and you're like, wait, that's actually really clever.

The way that they did that. And if you're at all a history nerd, yeah, if you're at all a history nerd, it's like, it's like, oh, wait, like they reference a lot of very true history facts. And then they of course, exaggerate and take some things and tell a story. But um, but yeah, the show is really, really fun. And I think it's like, it's been four years since I've done it. So it's finding me at like a fresh, new, very clean slate space. And I'm kind of rediscovering a joy for it. But yeah, I am very okay that it's, I keep stumbling into jobs, because I feel this way with Angelette, with Six, and with the doll cabal that like, all of these roles and shows are kind of asking me to bring a lot of myself to the character.

So like, I think sometimes as actors, you're like, playing a character where you're like, totally transforming. Like, like, if you're to you were to play like Cabaret, you do Sally Bowles or the MC, you're like, becoming like, a new person, almost, you're really playing a character, you're, you know, and then a show, like Six, they literally, when they explain the show to us, they're like, okay, you're 40% pop star, 40%, the queen historical inspo, and then 20% yourself, like you are playing yourself, they cast you because there's a certain individual essence about you that they want to be carried through the character. And I felt that way in Angelette, I was like, all of my wigs are exactly the same hair color as my hair.

So I put it on and I go, I look like myself. And I'm also just playing a woman in love, or I'm just even like in the ensemble, they told us with the players in the ensemble supporting Angelette, they're like, well, we love that all of you have your like, your own identities as artists, and we want that to come through. You're like, oh, okay. And then with Cats, it's like, that's implied. Like, there's no world where I was going to be giving the same performance as Bebe playing Demeter. Like, I was gonna have to find my own way into that. And because we were playing contemporary humans at a ball, you end up playing yourself out on the town, but with a little bit of like extra spice in whatever direction you need to go.

So that's been like, a very interesting journey for me, it kind of like, can be a little bit almost more vulnerable, because I don't get to like put on as much armor, to like protect myself against opinions, you know, it's like, it's like, no, this is what you got. It's like, people are gonna come see me as Cleaves and be like, well, isn't that just Shelby every day? And it's like, that's kind of the point. It's me just in like a really cool costume. And I'm doing things that I've rehearsed to say, but like, yeah. And, and it's been fun. And I and also like, being okay with my niche being like, I get to like wear sparkles and hold a microphone and like break the fourth wall a lot. Like, I don't know, this is like every single job.

There's some element of that and, and I'm not gonna fight the powers that be. Hey, it pays my bills. And, and it's, it's very fun for me. I do think eventually I'll be like, can somebody hire me to do like Sondheim or something, please? Like I need, I need to like, do some like storytelling acting pieces again. But for the time being, I, I am happy to enter my girl band era again and ride it until I can.

[39:02] Mike Abrams: I love it. I, you know, having seen it multiple times, I think the first time I saw it, I was actually, it was like really early when it came out and it was kind of like all the rage. But someone said, you got to go see it because it was the version of Cats I kept talking about, which is it's a competition where they're all fighting for to be the choice. Like there's a lot of cats in here. And then I saw, and I had as someone who has done a lot of parody and writing.

[39:30] Shelby Griswold: I could not get over how clever the lyrics were. And that was the part that really stood out to me, especially like, a lot of the Katherine Howard song, like, there's a lot of jokes there that are going to go right over your head for the children that are in the audience, but is so lyrically clever. Yeah. That I still like, there's still a couple lines in there. I'm just like, that is brilliant. And so I love that people can experience it. And like you said, they're familiar with it, because it's honestly probably a pop star they recognize, like whether whoever they're going to place it to, even if they don't read the playbill, there is some recognition of it. And it's 75, 80 minutes or whatever, which for me selling it to a non-theater person, I'm like, hey, there's a three hour, two intermission play that's going to be really, really well done, but a little dramatic and going to make you think at the end.

Or here's 80 minutes of a bunch of pop songs you would like, and it's just lights and fun and singing and dancing and you're going to walk out happy and a little history if you don't know it. Which do you choose? And a lot of times I think the same way I said this for Broadway with the Joel Cabal, it's kind of fun to choose joy right now, like at a time of a lot of other things going on in the world to have however long of an experience where you just get to be in a fun, joyful environment. So I want to try to now cast cats. I'm curious how we're going to do this because I did this with Carrie as cats cats, like not Joel Cabal cats. So I'm going to give you the queen and then I want you to tell me who you think would be the cat.

And then I'm going to tell you what I wrote down and I actually have what Carrie wrote down too because I pulled my notes from that. So let's start. We're going to go in order. So Catherine of Aragon. So I fear this one's a little obvious because she is the Spanish queen, right? So like she has all these lines where she's like, por favor, don't ask to my crown, like she's giving Spanish. And so like, I fear it's Jenny Annie dots like that. Yeah. That to me feels the most natural of like, I just could see the Joel Cabal version of Jenny giving us like a... What about Skimbleshanks though too? Oh, that's true. But Skimbleshanks is so... Hmm. No, you're right. Maybe it is Skimble. Maybe because she has a little bit more fire and Jenny's a little bit more like comedy.

Maybe I could save Jenny for somebody else too. So Carrie had Jenny. And then I actually had old Deuteronomy just because the lyric is that you're not replacing me. Right. And so there's this like, I'm still in charge. Like I'm the one running the show. No, that's there's a valid argument to that as well. I think for the essence of starting the show off with a bang, I think I would go Skimble actually. Because also, you know, and she could just slay that opening monologue and like, Aragon has a lot of like, stubborn interjections throughout the show. And that would be fun for Skimble, but still has to be like likable, you know, but old Deuteronomy, I don't know. I see Jenny. Right. And I see Jenny too.

There's a lot. Okay, what about Bolin? Okay. My soul says Mungojerry. I think that a little bit is because of the green tracksuit. But also Jonathan Burke, like playing Bolin kind of feels fun to me. And they're just kind of like mischievous. Like it could be Mungojerry, Rumpelteaser, energy in general feels very Bolin because they're just kind of like he he he he and that's like literally how she starts her number is like on her cell phone laughing. Oh my god, Anne's like kind of lore. So Anne is the only she introduces the cell phone for the top of the Bolin number. And I'm trying to remember. Oh, maybe it was Jenny who was recording during like the cop scene. It's always funny when when certain cats would pull phones out for the Dunkelball because it was just kind of this thing that was like, some people were given phone props.

And then we like they were like, I'm just gonna do it. Someone should be recording the cops. And we were like, yeah, that makes sense. But otherwise, okay, what are some other options, though? I can give you mine. So yeah, here we also had Mungojerry and Rumpelteaser. I had Bombalurina just because of the confidence of, of basically knowing who she is and saying this is like, this is right, right. Well, and she has those little interjections during Rum Tum Tugger. Like she's very out on the prowl a little bit. So I see that argument for sure. Yeah. Okay, how about this is the only one I think that I thought there was consensus on, which is Jane Seymour. Well, that's like people, that's like people's Grizabella, right?

Exactly. I think it's Grizabella. Carrie thought it was Grizabella. Yeah, a little bit. Because you could even argue that like Grizabella is like, I was the only one who truly loved life. So like, pick me. And like, I was let go too soon. I don't know. And also Jane dying so young is such a great like, if someone's going to be sacrificed to the great beyond, like, it would be the like, Virgin Mary mother. But I'm trying to think if there's any other arguments to be made. There are a lot of Grizabellas who then play Jane Seymour's because it's a lot of belting, a lot of similar, you know, singing memory and then singing Jane Seymour songs. You could argue a little bit in the Jellicle Ball version Cillabub.

Fair. Just just a little bit, but maybe Cillabub will be pulled into par but there's a certain Seymour gets to maintain a little bit of like childlike innocence too. I think because she like didn't end up experiencing a lot of life. And so yeah, there's there's a version of that. Our little valid queens. Anna of Cleves. Okay. I don't think this is a great question because I should be. I feel like Macavity is an option. Just for that, like, sort of, I'm going to do whatever I want energy. I think about who else? Maybe Bustifer. Maybe Bustifer. That's what I said. I said Bustifer just because of the like, I'm rich. I don't have to deal with whatever I want. I can have whatever I want to do. And probably probably our our version too, because we really tried to make it clear that Bustifer like owned the club, right?

And like, that's who's hosting the ball. And so like, they keep giving me this note in rehearsal. Actually, they're like, so I know it's like really fast and you're sitting in choreography, but like, really let us know that you're like sitting here all alone on a throne in a palace that I happen to own. It's like, really show us that you own this palace. And so there could be an argument for Bustifer, for sure. Also, because Nora would probably kill Cleaves at some point. But but yeah, I so those would probably be my two like Macavity for maybe a little bit more like slinky. Ah, but but now I'm thinking about Howard. Okay, those are my answers for. Okay, so let's go to Howard. I don't know. I'm like, kind of with the Macavity version we had on Broadway.

You know, she could she feels a little Howard energy. But Victoria might be a silent girl, but she could slink into Howard a little bit. You know, I had it and I think Carrie and I had the same thought, but different times. So she had Tugger at the beginning of Howard, and I had Demeter at the end of Howard. So if you think like the journey of the song, she started Tugger and ends very Demeter. This is true. This is valid. Okay, what about Par? This is why I was like, oh, a syllabub of Par. But Par could also be like Gus energy or Oh my god, it's escaping me who sings the Gus solo. Jelly Lauren. Jelly Lauren. Like there's this whole like vibe is a little bit more like, we're gonna teach all of you a lesson and like give you a little bit of background and history and like, that is so Par to a T. And also like the language of Gus is kind of, they like to say that Par kind of has like dad jokes, like she makes like bad jokes that are like wordplay and the wordplay is funny, but like no one's really laughing.

And so I bet kind of feels a little bit how we leaned into Gus because it was like, how some of the words were used and then like we tried to lay on like little metaphors with it, but I don't know who else. And those are the two we had. Yeah. Gus, I had jelly. So we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. Okay, we got to do some rapid fire to close this out. So if you could go on for one cat one night, any version you want to do, who would you want to perform as? Oh my god, one cat one night. Like hot take maybe Jenny? Love it. Love it. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats from a personality standpoint? So which character would you love hanging out with and which one would kind of get on your nerves?

As someone who spent time in both the House of Macavity and the House of Dots, oh god, I like kind of like think Bomberlain and Demita are like a hot time. Like I think they're fun. Like I want to hit the town with the Macavity girls. And then like the House of Dots, sometimes it's like, okay, fine. I guess I'll hang out with Tumble Brutus. But like, do not bother me today. Like, okay, you got to watch your favorite song and cats. Oh my god. Okay. I'm gonna have to up tempo. Mistoffelees did grow on me. It's it's over. It's she it's cheesy, and it's overdone. But then the Demeter solo for with Grizabella became like one of my favorite parts of the show to sing and to just watch but the hands and then it was I don't know what it's called.

It's like the entry of Grizabella, I think. Yeah. And it's like not even like a whole song, but it's just so like, cool. And it's like, Oh, this is the beginning of Grizabella, the Glamour Cat. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I always ask a fun one. So which cat do you think gives off the most Henry VIII vibes? Oh my god. I feel like I have to say old Deuteronomy. Yeah. He's just like, he's just like, you're here. You're my subjects. And like you had 99 wives. So many wives. So yeah, okay. million dollar question. I've argued at length. I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So who is your Jellicle choice? And why? It's tough. My heart wants to say Monkey Strap. I love it.

He does like so much in the show. And he like, especially in the Jellicle ball, he's given a lot of responsibility. And then he does the bizarre and it's like, I don't know, it feels like, like, the the overachieving like, like person who leads the group project and then like doesn't get any of the credit. And so so yeah, I feel like maybe I could see a nod to Monkey Strap. And he's been around the block. A lot of the other cats feel too young. It's like, it's not your time yet. Like, you know, yeah, I like it. I mean, the Monkey Strap has to work in the Jellicle ball. That is a busy track. But I'm any non Grizabella vote is a vote for for me. So I take it. This has been so fun. How can people stay in touch with you social media, TikTok, Instagram?

What's what's everything? Yeah, I'm definitely an Instagram primary gal. So that's Shelby double underscore Griswold. And it should be Shelby double underscore Griswold, like everywhere. So not like spelling out the word double. It's just Shelby underscore underscore Griswold. We'll tag it off. Great. But yeah, yeah, website, I try to keep it updated. And I have a tick tock. We're gonna see if I'm gonna post more with sick stuff. Might get into YouTube one day. I don't know. Stay tuned. But but yeah, no, Instagram is usually where it's at. And I post I'm gonna try and post about six stuff because I know the girlies like to be involved. But I also post about like my photography business and other like adventures and like fashion content.

So it's just an overall good time. You know? Yeah, I've been a follower for a while. So I agree. And we'll link to how to get six tickets because you're going all over the place. In a town. I'm already sending some people your way in Bloomington. But this has been so fun. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your experience. Of course. Thanks for having me. I had a blast. It's good to like reminisce, you know? Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you. And thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the Wrong Cat Diet podcast. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and this podcast. Follow us on social media at TheWrongCatDiet or check out thewrongcatdiet.com