This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She's currently performing in the incredible musical Six here on Broadway as Jane Seymour. But before the pandemic, she was on the US National Tour No. 6 of Cats performing as Grizabella. So welcome, Keri René Fuller, and thank you for joining me.

[0:38] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for having me.

[0:40] Mike Abrams: I am excited because when Six originally came out, I had a lot of people reach out and tell me, Six is what I wanted Cats to be because I wanted a singing competition for Cats. And Six starts as a singing competition. I've noticed there's some parallels that we'll get to, but let's talk about the Cats part first. So before you went on tour, I always love to know, how much did you know about the show?

[1:05] Keri René Fuller: Well, I did have the VHS when I was a kid.

[1:09] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[1:10] Keri René Fuller: And I remember being like, oh, yeah, if I was... because I didn't start theater until I was... Like, you know how some people start wee-wee-wee last.

[1:20] Mike Abrams: Right away, yep.

[1:22] Keri René Fuller: I started, like, towards the end of middle school. So I was, like, not... I was still a kid, but it was later than a lot of kids. And so I was, like, I didn't... I played basketball. I played soccer. I thought I was going to be a crime scene investigator at some point. But somehow I got the VHS of Cats. I really did. It was definitely before I was in theater. So I don't know how it ended up in my house. However, I watched it, and I was like, yeah, I mean, if I did this show one day, I'd probably be the one that dies at the end. Like, I don't know. It just seems like... it seems like what... because I've been singing forever. I hadn't done any dancing. I was like, that's really the only one I could do.

[2:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[2:04] Keri René Fuller: But I didn't follow the story. Like, I definitely didn't understand the story.

[2:08] Mike Abrams: Oh, no.

[2:09] Keri René Fuller: Well, I guess how old were you when you first saw it?

[2:11] Mike Abrams: So you said middle school?

[2:12] Keri René Fuller: No, it was, like... it was probably elementary school. I think that we probably got it at a garage sale.

[2:17] Mike Abrams: Okay.

[2:18] Keri René Fuller: I kind of love the fascination of people who just end up with this VHS, because I definitely did not have it growing up. I know my mom took my sister as a young child, but I didn't go. And so I knew nothing about the show until 2016, really, besides that it was a punchline in a lot of, like, TV shows and sitcoms.

[2:35] Keri René Fuller: Oh, yeah.

[2:36] Keri René Fuller: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember... I think it was one of my favorite jokes of all time. I heard it was Conan O'Brien. Remember that guy?

[2:44] Mike Abrams: Oh, yeah.

[2:45] Keri René Fuller: He said, in other news, the... oh, gosh, I'm going to slaughter it. But he was, like, he was, like, there is now, like, if you're in China, make sure that you catch the tour of Cats. And then he said, in other news, the entire cast of Cats has been eaten.

[3:04] Mike Abrams: Oh, God.

[3:06] Keri René Fuller: Yes.

[3:08] Mike Abrams: So clearly butchered the delivery.

[3:11] Keri René Fuller: No, that's so funny. I'm sure there's a video of that somewhere on the interwebs. But I didn't... I truly didn't know anything about the story until I joined the show. I kid you not.

[3:20] Mike Abrams: Well, it's probably a good thing, though, because it's kind of a dark story when you, like, really dig into it. So it's, like, not the best plot line for, you know, an under-middle-school-aged person to be watching.

[3:26] Keri René Fuller: I actually... I've complained through this whole podcast. I don't think kids should be there.

[3:38] Mike Abrams: Really?

[3:39] Keri René Fuller: Because I know it goes over their head. But as I've learned more of the plot line, it's, like, well, we're going to... it feels like a cult. We're going to murder a cat.

[3:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[3:46] Keri René Fuller: One is being sexually abused. That's, like, a staple of the history for Demeter.

[3:50] Mike Abrams: 100%.

[3:51] Keri René Fuller: And it's, like, all these things are happening. And it's, like... and it's pretty sexual, like, the balls and orgy. And so I find... I think there's a window. So I think if you're under, like, 10, it's all going over your head. Bring them. It's fine. It's fine.

[4:04] Mike Abrams: Right.

[4:05] Keri René Fuller: But it's at, like, 10 to probably, like, 15 range where it's, like, eh, they probably understand a little of what's going on. It's probably a little inappropriate.

[4:10] Mike Abrams: Probably, yeah.

[4:12] Keri René Fuller: And then there's the adults where it's, like, come figure out how you feel about it, love or hate.

[4:17] Mike Abrams: And there's definitely a big mix.

[4:18] Keri René Fuller: 100%. 100%. I think that people just assume that since it's called Cats that it's really not that deep. And that, you know, it's just dancing. So any kid that's ever had the dream of dancing, parents are, like, this is the perfect show for you.

[4:37] Mike Abrams: I don't know.

[4:39] Keri René Fuller: Until they learn what to do. Gray areas.

[4:41] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[4:42] Keri René Fuller: Gray areas. Definitely.

[4:44] Mike Abrams: Okay. So you don't know a ton about it until you get cast on tour. And this is after Waitress when you were on Broadway in Waitress. What was that experience like being cast in this tour revival coming off of, I think, it's the 2016 kind of production being brought on tour?

[5:00] Keri René Fuller: Yeah. What are you told about? You know, like, what were your aha moments when you're learning the craziness and backstories of all of Cats when you're now seeing it from a different lens?

[5:11] Keri René Fuller: I mean, it was kind of, I'm going to be honest, it was kind of a confused production, our tour in particular. Because Andy Blankenbuehler was our director and choreographer. However, he was working on the film at the time. And so we didn't really get to work with him that often. And so we were working with Gillian Lynn's assistant, you know, Chrissy Cartwright. She's worked on I adore the woman. I think that she is so funny. Obviously, British has worked with like every production. So she knows the show unlike anything else. I was very much looking forward to the fusion of traditional and new. But I didn't really I was called to every rehearsal. But I didn't really I had got I had two sessions, I think, with Chrissy.

I never really got to work with Andy. And because he just he was when he was there, he was working mostly on the choreography, of course. Yeah. And since, you know, Grizabella only has like 20 minutes on stage. She has the most famous song, but she took a backseat a little. And so a lot of what I did was based on conversations that like little passing conversations I had with Chrissy. But Kristen Blodgett and I had probably some of the most effective sessions because she she was our music supervisor. And obviously, she also knows the show extraordinarily well. So I was getting just like essentially narrative because Grizabella doesn't interact really. And so it was unique in that I was kind of making up my entire thing the entire time. I was flying by the seat of my pants. I was like, OK, well, I know the words. I am not really getting any direction. So I'm just going to try things and see what happens.

[7:14] Mike Abrams: Was there any with 40 years of history? Did you kind of go back to and knowing this also is a new production, but you had, I think, two Grizabellas, at least from the 2016. Did you talk to Mamie or did you did you explore kind of what historically was done to kind of bring into this kind of new thing?

[7:31] Keri René Fuller: No, because this is going to sound very bad, but I did not care. I did not care what had been done before because, A, I was 25 at the time, 24 when I was cast. So, like, I was young. I was on the younger side. And everybody's talking about how Grizabella is this old weathered thing. And I'm like, she doesn't have to be actually. Yeah, actually, she doesn't have to be old. She can just, you know, we all know those people that have had a great, successful careers in theater. And then they like break their leg or something. And they are, you know, financial advisors in Wisconsin for the rest of their lives. Like things happen. Yeah. And so I was like, OK, well, I am 25. I don't have the wisdom of.

And there's only so much you can learn about wisdom from other people's wisdom. And so I was like, I need to figure out my own wisdom. There was no other 25 year old that I could talk to. You know, there was no other like like young person that was like, yeah, like this happened. This happened. I messed up here. I messed up there. And I'm just really trying back in cattle calls again. And I really don't know if I'm going to have a career in this anymore. And it's all I want to do. There was nobody like that for me.

[8:55] Mike Abrams: So it's so interesting to hear you say it, because when I've talked to I've asked this question for a few different roles and a few different people, because this show is such a staple for that. There's there is so much history with the different amounts of productions. And it's on Royal Caribbean Cruise and it's in Vienna and it's on international tour and U.S. tour. And it's kind of a 50 50 answer. It's it's there's a I want to learn everything and then make it my own. Or I really don't want to learn anything because I want to make it my own. And it's just a little bit two different processes to kind of get to the same spot to individualize a role. Both of them are so valid.

[9:29] Keri René Fuller: It's like I completely understand the desire to like in a historical show, want to know everything about it. I obviously like egocentric. I like Wikipedia. And I was like, who's the youngest? Grizabella. I'm making history. I did not make history, but there was one other Grizabella. But that was the extent of like the history that I did. And I also like I respect I respect Broadway performers, especially that we're doing it at this at the time when Cats was originating. I respect them so much because it was such a different time. And I wanted to make sure that this that this version, because it was so press always wanted us to say that it was a refreshed outlook on the classic story. And I, you know, to a certain extent, I really wanted to make sure that I was I was doing honor by that and not allowing too much of the history into the new version.

[10:40] Keri René Fuller: So, yeah, that's I. I feel I sometimes feel bad that I didn't do more research, but I feel like it was a successful run.

[10:50] Mike Abrams: No, I don't think I mean, it definitely shouldn't feel bad. I think that's part of the process is like you've got to because you're going to learn the in rehearsals, the backstory, which we'll get to next. I have one more question about the tour that I'm curious about before we get to the Grizabella theories that are out there that you can shed some light on. You were on tour when the movie came out, right?

[11:09] Keri René Fuller: It was like that was kind of what was that experience like? Because, I mean, the movie had such mixed reviews is maybe a generous term, but that's kind of a wild time in itself. And it's also right before the pandemic where the news was starting to break that things could be maybe not so good. And, you know, but it wasn't quite at that point yet. So what was that end of 2019 like?

[11:33] Keri René Fuller: Honestly, so we saw it. I remember very clearly we saw the movie. We went kind of as a cast and we were in Toronto at the time to the local cinema. And it was a it was an amazing night at the theater. I we had finished a show. I honestly don't think the problem was with the movie. I think the problem was with the marketing. If they would have marketed that movie as a parody, there would be no backlash. There would have been no back because it was a perfect parody. It was perfect. Unfortunately, they marketed it and I believe intended it to be a serious film, in which case it failed miserably. I also have my own feelings about stunt casting, but just is what it is. They spent one hundred million dollars. I don't think that was a parody attempt.

[12:33] Mike Abrams: No, I think you're right. It would have landed better.

[12:36] Keri René Fuller: It would have landed so much because people would have managed their expectations. Like it wasn't really like I don't know who dropped the ball. I really don't know. I don't know who, but it's the director. It's the editing. I can tell you, I still think if someone took the whole thing that they shot because the choreography looked amazing, the singing was great. The dancers are incredible. It was the way to me. It was cut together, which there was a lot of news at the time was done, not even done at the time of the premiere. So, yeah, I still think that there's probably a version. If somebody went out and took all of the raw footage and edit it properly, that there's still maybe a more real.

[13:13] Keri René Fuller: I think one of the most interesting things about Grizabella is that she is such a complex character. I don't think she expected, at all, to be chosen to go to the Heaviside Layer.

[13:43] Keri René Fuller: When I was learning the role, I had to really dive into her backstory, even though there wasn't a lot provided in the script. I had to create my own theories about why she came back to the tribe after so long.

[14:13] Keri René Fuller: I believe that Grizabella's return is about seeking forgiveness and acceptance. She’s been through so much, and I think she longs for that connection with her fellow cats.

[14:43] Keri René Fuller: There’s a certain vulnerability to her character that resonates with a lot of people. It’s not just about the glamour of being a Jellicle; it’s about the pain of being an outcast.

[14:53] Keri René Fuller: I also think it’s important to defend Gus, the Theatre Cat. He has his own story and struggles, and I feel like he deserves more recognition for his contributions to the Jellicle tribe.

[15:03] Keri René Fuller: Comparing Grizabella to the Queens in SIX, I see similarities in their journeys. Both characters face judgment and have to fight for their place in the world.

[15:13] Keri René Fuller: The Queens in SIX are powerful and unapologetic, while Grizabella is more about redemption and vulnerability. It’s fascinating to explore those contrasts.

[15:23] Keri René Fuller: I think audiences connect with Grizabella because she embodies the struggle for acceptance, which is something everyone can relate to at some point in their lives.

[15:33] Keri René Fuller: When I performed her, I always tried to bring that depth to the character, showing her pain but also her hope for a better future.

[15:43] Keri René Fuller: It’s a delicate balance, and I think that’s what makes Grizabella such a compelling character in the musical.

[15:53] Keri René Fuller: I also love how the music reflects her emotional journey. "Memory" is such a powerful song that captures her longing and regret.

[16:03] Keri René Fuller: The way the music builds and the lyrics convey her story really resonate with audiences, making them feel her pain and hope.

[16:13] Keri René Fuller: I think that’s why people have such strong opinions about her character. She evokes empathy and compassion, which can lead to passionate discussions.

[16:23] Keri René Fuller: It’s interesting to see how different people interpret her story and what they take away from it.

[16:33] Keri René Fuller: Ultimately, I believe that Grizabella’s journey is about finding peace and acceptance, both from herself and from others.

[16:43] Keri René Fuller: That’s a universal theme that transcends the musical and speaks to the human experience.

[16:53] Keri René Fuller: I think that’s why the character continues to resonate with audiences, even decades after the show first premiered.

[17:03] Keri René Fuller: It’s a testament to the power of storytelling and the depth of the characters in CATS.

[17:13] Keri René Fuller: I feel honored to have played such an iconic role and to contribute to that ongoing conversation about acceptance and redemption.

[17:23] Keri René Fuller: It’s a role that challenges you as a performer, but it’s also incredibly rewarding to portray such a layered character.

[17:33] Keri René Fuller: I hope that audiences continue to see Grizabella not just as a tragic figure, but as someone who embodies resilience and the quest for belonging.

[17:43] Keri René Fuller: That’s what makes her story so timeless and relevant, no matter the era.

[17:53] Keri René Fuller: I think that’s the beauty of theatre; it allows us to explore these complex emotions and connect with each other on a deeper level.

[18:03] Keri René Fuller: And I’m grateful to be part of that journey through my work in CATS and now in SIX.

[18:13] Keri René Fuller: Each role brings its own challenges and rewards, and I love being able to explore different facets of storytelling.

[18:23] Keri René Fuller: I think that’s what keeps me passionate about performing and sharing these stories with audiences.

[18:33] Keri René Fuller: It’s all about connection, and I hope to continue fostering that through my work.

[18:43] Keri René Fuller: Whether it’s through Grizabella or the Queens in SIX, I want to leave a lasting impact on those who come to see the shows.

[18:53] Keri René Fuller: That’s what makes being a performer so fulfilling; the ability to touch lives and evoke emotions through art.

[19:03] Keri René Fuller: I’m excited to see how audiences continue to interpret these characters and their journeys as the world evolves.

[19:13] Keri René Fuller: It’s a reminder that storytelling is a living, breathing art form that adapts and grows with us.

[19:23] Keri René Fuller: I think that’s what makes theatre so special; it’s a shared experience that can spark conversations and inspire change.

[19:33] Keri René Fuller: I’m grateful to be part of that tradition and to contribute my voice to these important narratives.

[19:43] Keri René Fuller: I hope that as we move forward, we continue to embrace the complexities of these characters and the stories they tell.

[19:53] Keri René Fuller: That’s what keeps the art form alive and relevant in today’s world.

[20:03] Keri René Fuller: And I’m looking forward to continuing that journey with audiences, both in CATS and in SIX.

[20:13] Keri René Fuller: It’s an exciting time to be part of the theatre community, and I can’t wait to see what the future holds.

[20:23] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for having me on the podcast to share my thoughts and experiences.

[20:33] Keri René Fuller: It’s been a pleasure discussing Grizabella and the impact of these characters with you.

[20:43] Keri René Fuller: I hope listeners take away a deeper understanding of the complexities of these roles and the stories they tell.

[20:53] Keri René Fuller: Thank you again for the opportunity to share my perspective.

[21:03] Keri René Fuller: I look forward to connecting with everyone on social media and continuing the conversation.

[21:13] Keri René Fuller: You can find me on Instagram at @krfuller13, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on Grizabella and the Queens in SIX.

[21:23] Keri René Fuller: Let’s keep the dialogue going and explore these characters together.

[21:33] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you at the theatre soon!

[21:43] Keri René Fuller: It’s been a joy to share my insights and experiences with you all.

[21:53] Keri René Fuller: Until next time, take care and keep celebrating the magic of theatre.

[22:03] Keri René Fuller: I appreciate the chance to reflect on these roles and their significance in our lives.

[22:13] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for being part of this journey with me.

[22:23] Keri René Fuller: I can’t wait to see where our conversations lead us in the future.

[22:33] Keri René Fuller: Let’s continue to uplift and support each other in the arts.

[22:43] Keri René Fuller: Together, we can create a vibrant community that celebrates storytelling and connection.

[22:53] Keri René Fuller: Thank you once again for having me on the podcast.

[23:03] Keri René Fuller: It’s been a wonderful experience sharing my thoughts and insights.

[23:13] Keri René Fuller: I hope to inspire others to explore the depths of these characters and the stories they tell.

[23:23] Keri René Fuller: Let’s keep the conversation alive and continue to celebrate the power of theatre.

[23:33] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for listening, and I look forward to connecting with you all soon!

[23:43] Keri René Fuller: Until next time, take care and keep the magic of theatre alive in your hearts.

[23:53] Keri René Fuller: It’s been a pleasure sharing this time with you.

[24:03] Keri René Fuller: I hope you enjoyed our discussion and found it insightful.

[24:13] Keri René Fuller: Let’s continue to uplift each other and celebrate the beauty of storytelling.

[24:23] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for being part of this journey with me.

[24:33] Keri René Fuller: I can’t wait to see where our conversations take us next.

[24:43] Keri René Fuller: Together, we can create a vibrant community that embraces the arts.

[24:53] Keri René Fuller: Thank you once again for having me on the podcast.

[25:03] Keri René Fuller: It’s been a joy to share my experiences and insights with you all.

[25:13] Keri René Fuller: I hope to inspire others to explore the depths of these characters and their stories.

[25:23] Keri René Fuller: Let’s keep the dialogue going and celebrate the magic of theatre together.

[25:33] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for listening, and I look forward to connecting with you all soon!

[25:43] Keri René Fuller: Until next time, take care and keep the spirit of theatre alive in your hearts.

[25:53] Keri René Fuller: It’s been a pleasure sharing this time with you.

[26:03] Keri René Fuller: I hope you enjoyed our discussion and found it insightful.

[26:13] Keri René Fuller: Let’s continue to uplift each other and celebrate the beauty of storytelling.

[26:28] Mike Abrams: And so many, you know, we love a conspiracy theory. We love a theory. We just love them.

[26:34] Keri René Fuller: Yep, completely. We'll be back after this short break.

[26:47] Mike Abrams: I want to transition to SIX because I'm obsessed. It is one of my favorite things to go see. Um, I've loved seeing you perform as Jane Seymour. So I want to ask my first question because Grizabella to, or CATS even, to SIX is you go from 15 minutes, 20 minutes on stage to zero breaks on stage and performing straight for 80 minutes. What was that? I mean, like it's, it's kind of almost, it's uncommon at this point. I feel like SIX is one of the few ones where you, I mean, you'd go get your drinks of water and stuff. And I think you go off maybe before the, um, before Anna Cleaves, you know, there's like a little small, like, but it's like 10 seconds, not even. So what was that, you know, prep for that going like, where you've been in these, you know, these shows where you kind of got your, your time on stage, your time off to all of a sudden, I'm going to be on for 80 straight minutes.

[27:47] Keri René Fuller: Right. I mean, it is, it, this show does, SIX does require a lot of stamina. I think I even think back to CATS and I think about my cast mates and I always felt so guilty. I was like, I get to relax and do things off stage. And they're essentially on stage the entire show. And that's like what, two hour, two and a half hours? Yeah. So like, I definitely have, I think the difference is, is that I have perspective now that I didn't have before CATS. So like, if you would have, if you would have asked me this question before CATS, I would have been like, oh my gosh, just, oh, so hard, like going on, you know, but now that I, uh, I have seen cast mates truly, um, not stop, not stop and doing a lot more physically demanding things.

I, um, I, I have it, I have it pretty good. That being said, that being said, this show is extraordinarily challenging in its own way. So I have, you were right. I have only like, I only asked the stage three times for less than like 15 seconds. Yeah. And, um, it's like, it's like a quick sip of water and then back at it. However, I always joked, I was like, I only get hired to sing sad, high, sad ballads because I mean, I was, I was hired for Waitress to understudy Jenna. I was hired obviously for Grizabella from memory and now Heart of Stone. Um, but that's, what's challenging to me. That is, it's the vocal aspect of this show. Um, only because we sing in every number, we dance in every number and we, it's not like Heart of Stone is not an easy song.

Luckily we have such an amazing front of house team. That's like our sound mixing and everything that just makes our life so much easier. I'm just now getting to the point where like I'm trusting the microphone. I'm trusting the in-ears. Um, we have any monitors, which I've never worked with before. So it's, it's, you, it's a very unique experience and it goes by so much faster than it looks. It does. Once, you know, get down happens. We're just, we're pretty much done with the show and that's how it feels on stage too. And I think we also just have so much fun that the time passes pretty quickly too.

[30:27] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It is such a, a unique song in the sense to, or maybe as the audience is that you go from very upbeat, upbeat, upbeat, and then it's like, boy, we're going to slow down and we're going to get emotional and we're going to go into this kind of power ballad. And so, um, it's, it's kind of, and then it goes right back to very, very upbeat again with, you know, the house of Horvath and stuff like that. So, um, it is interesting. I want to, my favorite thing to do is with their, one of their current shows going on is to compare the characters to CATS. So I want to compare the Queens to CATS. So I've, I've done a little bit of thinking on this. I think I've landed on almost all of them. Um, with one that I'm, I have a couple of choices here, but I want to hear your thoughts on them. So let's start with, we'll go in order. So let's start with Catherine of Aragon. I think Catherine of Aragon is, um, this is the hardest one for me. This is so hard.

[31:29] Keri René Fuller: Catherine of Aragon, I think is the, um, is, is, uh, what is her name? Oh my gosh. It's weird. It's weird, but I think it's, I think it's Jenny AnyDots.

[31:38] Mike Abrams: Jenny. Okay. So why? Because she is, she's a, uh, like she's one of the OGs. So is Jenny AnyDots. She's, she was like, she's like, so she's one of the OGs. Um, Catherine of Aragon was obviously the OG and, um, um, like stylistically, they're very presentational. Uh, oh, okay. And they're performing style. Um, and there's like, there's like a nice confidence that comes with the, with knowing that like you are setting the bar.

[32:26] Keri René Fuller: Yeah. She's also one of, isn't she one of the first cats?

[32:29] Mike Abrams: Very much. Yeah. She's like second, I think second one first or second. So I like that. I, I was, I never placed Jenny anywhere. And I thought about like where she would fit. I took the lyrics of this a little bit more to heart. And so I thought, well, Deuteronomy, cause it's like, you're not replacing me. And it's like, Monkish Trap is ready to take over. And he's the true OG of CATS. And so I kept thinking, oh, I love that. I think you're right. I think you are right. Okay. Let's go to Anne Boleyn.

[33:04] Keri René Fuller: Anne Boleyn, I think is, uh, Monkey Strap and Rumpelteaser.

[33:10] Mike Abrams: Okay. I could see that. I went with Bombalurina.

[33:19] Keri René Fuller: I see like, I just think that Anne Boleyn is just such a shit stirrer.

[33:22] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay. That's so it's like, and so are they? Yes. So Mongo and Rump.

[33:27] Keri René Fuller: I, I said Monkey Strap help Mongo teaser. Wow. Yeah. What is it? Mongo, Jerry and Rumpelteaser. Did I do this show? Did I even do this musical? Oh my gosh. Monkey Strap.

[33:34] Mike Abrams: Monkey Strap is the one that wants to take over for old Deuteronomy that like narrator.

[33:38] Keri René Fuller: Yes. Thank you. Wow. It's been a minute. Yeah. I that's, that's a really good answer. I didn't think about it from that way. I was thinking more about it like very promiscuous and kind of like carefree. And that's why I thought Bombalurina. Um, I do love that. I do love that. I just think that stirs the pot.

[34:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah. They're just like little troublemakers. And I just, it's just like the cute, it's cute. I think Jane Seymour is an easy one. I think. Yeah. I, I think that those, those are pretty. Yeah. Dyes. It's Grizabella. It's obvious.

[34:13] Keri René Fuller: It's true. It's true. I mean, I also would say like, maybe Jellylorum could fit in there because she's such a caretaker.

[34:20] Mike Abrams: Yes. I have Jelly for a different, I've got a Jelly for a different queen. I can't wait to hear this one. Um, let's do Anne of Cleves.

[34:32] Keri René Fuller: Okay. Anne of Cleves is such a show off. So I think, I think that it's Misto.

[34:37] Mike Abrams: That's okay. So interesting. I took the life of luxury and rich. And so I thought she was Bustopher Jones, like lives in a palace.

[34:44] Keri René Fuller: I think I block out Bustopher Jones just in general. I think I just block him out. Bustopher Jones is cut in the 90 minute, um, version on the Royal Caribbean cruise. So, so yeah. Um, but that was where I, I, that's a, I really liked that. Um, kind of a showy dancing heavy number.

[35:08] Mike Abrams: Right. I know they're really, really good. Catherine Howard.

[35:14] Keri René Fuller: Oh, that's Rum Tum Tugger for sure.

[35:20] Mike Abrams: Tugger. Okay. I went to Demeter and I went to Demeter cause I thought Demeter sings kind of that same very sexy song, but it's also a little skittish in it. And as the song progresses, that's what happens to kind of Catherine Howard. So that's kind of how I was thinking about it. But I do get the Tugger confidence.

[35:35] Keri René Fuller: But I will say like, they're both in abusive scenarios. I just, yeah, I just, I, what the part that gets me is like the confidence in this. I feel like this would be Tugger's like internal monologue if he was capable of being honest with himself.

[36:05] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yep. So true. And Catherine Howard has all the like confident one-liners in the show, just throwing out, you know, that's the thing about Demeter is that she doesn't really have like these protective mechanisms. As far as like the psyche goes, she's more physically manifesting her protective mechanisms and Tugger is very much just in denial the entire time. Yeah. So, so there's two, it's basically before her song, Catherine is Tugger. Yeah. At the end of her song, Catherine is Demeter.

[36:30] Keri René Fuller: Yeah. And then back to Tugger for the lines. Exactly. Right after. And then Catherine Parr.

[36:38] Mike Abrams: Catherine Parr. I had this in my brain. It was like such a fleeting, I feel like it might be, um, what's his face? Um, the old one. Gus.

[36:55] Keri René Fuller: Gus. I love it. You just forgot the Bustopher Jones Gus track completely. The reason that I say that is because he was such a imaginative energy and like he, he set so many little records, you know, like even though for him, they were just like nothing, but like, they meant everything. And she's kind of like a trailblazer in that way too.

[37:29] Mike Abrams: But I'm curious, who do you think it is? That's where, so it's in the same world, because that's where I have Jelly. Yeah. Because kind of a caretaker for, you know, the group and especially Gus, very thoughtful and cerebral.

[37:45] Keri René Fuller: Yeah, you're right. So that's where, that's kind of where I put Jellylorum. Yeah. I feel like I just get so, I think I just, it's funny that I forgot him because I love Gus so much. Like I really love him. He's probably one of my favorite characters in the entire musical of CATS.

[38:03] Mike Abrams: So I think I just wanted him to have his queen moment. You know, I think I just really was manifesting for him to have his queen moment. I love it. Um, I didn't really put this in, but I think we could do, you know, the King. I, but to me, that's Macavity. It's our villain.

[38:17] Keri René Fuller: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Or maybe, so yeah, so Grizabella would have in this scenario, she would have a kid.

[38:24] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, I think there's some versions that she has a kid.

[38:31] Keri René Fuller: Yeah. I think she has multiple kids probably. It absolutely would not surprise me.

[38:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Would not surprise me at all. I just started watching Breaking Bad and, um, there's parts of like the CD underbelly of Grizabella that reminds me, did you ever watch Breaking Bad?

[38:48] Keri René Fuller: Yeah. You remember in, I think it's the first season, the two like crack heads that like take, um, Aaron Paul, take Jesse, they steal him.

[39:01] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah. Yeah. That wife, that wife who's like, I'm not a skank. I'm not a skank.

[39:08] Keri René Fuller: That, you feel that? That's your Grizabella? Is it your crack head? Your crack head who's stealing people? When she gives, when she gives into the temptation and then is, obviously that's not how I played Grizabella, but I, I, I saw that and I was like, why does that sound familiar to me? My controversial-ish take on Grizabella was that when she left the tribe, it was the bald Britney Spears phase. So it's like, you got your pop star who's the top of the world that has the meltdown, which I-

[39:41] Keri René Fuller: I think Grizabella's journey is so fascinating because she comes back to the tribe after being gone for so long. I don't think she expected, at all, to be chosen to go to the Heaviside Layer.

[40:11] Keri René Fuller: When I was learning the role, I had to piece together her backstory from what I could gather in the script and from the music. It was a challenge, but it also allowed me to bring my own interpretation to the character.

[40:31] Keri René Fuller: I believe Grizabella returns because she longs for connection and acceptance. She wants to be part of the tribe again, despite the pain of her past.

[40:51] Keri René Fuller: I think there's a lot of depth to her character that isn't always explored in the show. She's not just a tragic figure; she's someone who has experienced life and has a story to tell.

[41:11] Keri René Fuller: Defending Gus is interesting too. He represents the nostalgia of the past and the importance of remembering where we came from.

[41:21] Keri René Fuller: In a way, Gus and Grizabella are both seeking validation and recognition from the tribe, albeit in different ways.

[41:31] Keri René Fuller: The contrast between the two characters is compelling. Gus is celebrated for his past, while Grizabella struggles to be accepted for who she is now.

[41:51] Keri René Fuller: I think that speaks to a larger theme in the show about how we value individuals and their contributions over time.

[42:11] Keri René Fuller: It's also interesting to compare the Cats to the Queens in SIX. Both shows explore themes of identity and legacy, but in very different contexts.

[42:31] Keri René Fuller: The Queens in SIX are all about empowerment and reclaiming their stories, while the Cats are more about acceptance and redemption.

[42:51] Keri René Fuller: I love that both shows highlight strong female characters, each with their own unique struggles and triumphs.

[43:11] Keri René Fuller: It's a privilege to portray Grizabella and to bring her story to life, especially in a time when stories of resilience and redemption are so important.

[43:31] Keri René Fuller: I think audiences resonate with Grizabella because they see parts of themselves in her journey.

[43:51] Keri René Fuller: Everyone has moments of feeling like an outsider or longing for acceptance, and Grizabella embodies that struggle.

[44:11] Keri René Fuller: Ultimately, her story is one of hope and transformation, which is something we can all relate to.

[44:31] Keri René Fuller: I hope that when people see the show, they walk away with a sense of understanding and compassion for Grizabella and her journey.

[44:51] Keri René Fuller: It's all about connection, and I think that's what makes CATS such a timeless piece.

[45:11] Keri René Fuller: The music, the choreography, and the storytelling all come together to create an experience that is both magical and moving.

[45:31] Keri René Fuller: I feel so lucky to be part of this legacy and to share it with audiences across the country.

[45:51] Keri René Fuller: Each performance is a new opportunity to connect with the audience and to bring Grizabella's story to life in a fresh way.

[46:11] Keri René Fuller: I think that's what keeps it exciting for me as a performer.

[46:31] Keri René Fuller: There's always something new to discover in the character and in the way the audience responds.

[46:51] Keri René Fuller: It's a beautiful cycle of giving and receiving energy, and I cherish that aspect of live theater.

[47:11] Keri René Fuller: I also love hearing the different interpretations from my fellow cast members.

[47:31] Keri René Fuller: Each person brings their own unique perspective to the role, which enriches the overall experience for everyone involved.

[47:51] Keri René Fuller: It's a collaborative art form, and I think that's what makes theater so special.

[48:11] Keri René Fuller: I always look forward to our rehearsals and performances because of that sense of community and shared purpose.

[48:31] Keri René Fuller: We all want to tell these stories and connect with the audience in meaningful ways.

[48:51] Keri René Fuller: It's a reminder of why we do what we do, and it fuels my passion for performing.

[49:11] Keri René Fuller: I hope that audiences leave the theater feeling inspired and uplifted, just as I do every time I step on stage.

[49:31] Keri René Fuller: Grizabella's journey is a testament to the power of resilience and the importance of finding one's place in the world.

[50:01] Keri René Fuller: I think that's a message that resonates with everyone, regardless of their background or experiences.

[50:21] Keri René Fuller: It's a privilege to share that message through my work, and I hope to continue doing so for a long time.

[50:41] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for having me on the podcast to share my thoughts about Grizabella and the show.

[51:01] Keri René Fuller: It's been a pleasure discussing these themes and connecting with fellow fans of CATS.

[51:21] Keri René Fuller: I look forward to seeing how audiences continue to engage with the story and the characters in the years to come.

[51:51] Keri René Fuller: Thank you for the opportunity to share my journey and insights about this incredible role.

[52:11] Keri René Fuller: I hope everyone enjoys the show and finds their own connection to the characters and their stories.

[52:31] Keri René Fuller: Let's keep the conversation going about the importance of acceptance, redemption, and the power of storytelling.