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[0:00] Meghan: Welcome back, queers.

[0:01] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Thanks for joining us.

[0:02] Meghan: Today we're chatting with director, dramaturg, writer, and investor, Miss Hazel Jade.

[0:14] Meghan: Hey everyone, welcome to Thesis on Joan.

[0:16] Meghan: I'm Meghan, she/her.

[0:18] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I'm Harrow, they/them.

[0:20] Meghan: Thesis on Joan is a podcast dedicated to amplifying voices from the LGBTQ+ community in the New York performing arts scene and examining the industry from a queer perspective.

[0:30] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Join fanqueers and theater professionals, me and Meghan, as we sit down with groundbreaking theater folk from Brooklyn cabaret performers to people backstage and on Broadway.

[0:40] Meghan: For many queers, theater has been an escape.

[0:43] Harrow Sansom Thesis: This podcast looks to have open conversations on where we've come from and where we're headed as a community while queering the canon along the way.

[0:52] Meghan: Hi Harrow.

[0:54] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Happy mid-October.

[0:56] Meghan: For us, when we're recording, it was only last weekend, but when you're hearing this will be a little later.

[1:01] Meghan: But the Tony Awards were last weekend.

[1:03] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And I just wondered like what were your highs and your lows and your in-betweens and what stood out.

[1:09] Meghan: Uh, yeah, what you thought of this new format they did.

[1:12] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, and I also like that last time we recorded, we were both like, oh yeah, the Tonys.

[1:17] Meghan: Um, and now I equally feel like it was so long ago, right?

[1:20] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Uh-huh.

[1:21] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I mean, I like the idea behind the format, right?

[1:27] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I feel I've been thinking about this a lot this week because they came out with how the viewership was like its lowest ever in history.

[1:35] Meghan: But it was also up against a Dallas Cowboys game, so I don't know that I like how they use that.

[1:40] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I'm like, I don't think that audience was torn over the case.

[1:43] Meghan: There's not a Venn diagram.

[1:44] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That's very the crossover is not large, I feel like.

[1:47] Meghan: Yeah, it's only like the people who were forced to watch the Cowboys instead of the Tonys because of their partners or something.

[1:54] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But um yeah, I like the idea because as much as like we think otherwise, the Tonys is really just intended to be a good commercial for like out of town people to come see shows.

[2:09] Meghan: So I thought like condensing all the performances into a shorter time was like, oh great.

[2:14] Meghan: This is more like a shopping menu of like, oh, here are some things I could see.

[2:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Here's why I love Broadway and I forgot.

[2:21] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um like logically, like with that goal in mind, it makes sense because it's more of a menu for ticket buyers.

[2:30] Meghan: But like I we were confused.

[2:33] Harrow Sansom Thesis: We were texting each other, so if we couldn't figure out how to get from Paramount Plus to the other to the program, like that had to be such a fumble for so many people.

[2:46] Meghan: I can't like I can't imagine some of like the older generation folks I've worked with in the past figuring that out easily.

[2:53] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I think my mom like usually always texts me about the Tonys and is like watching it with me, and it's like a fun way for her to engage with me, and she had like no idea they were happening.

[3:04] Meghan: So yeah, I just I can't imagine that wasn't extremely harmful to the numbers.

[3:10] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I mean, we know they are, but yeah.

[3:13] Meghan: Yeah, and I feel like if folks didn't realize it was two parts, they probably watched the first part and they're like, that sucked.

[3:20] Harrow Sansom Thesis: We usually like to see the performances.

[3:22] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like, you know, they had no sense that like I don't know.

[3:26] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I and there just weren't clear directions on like how to like if you were watching on Paramount Plus, which I think was the only way to watch that first section, there was not clear directions on how to switch to the like the live broadcast.

[3:38] Meghan: No, yeah.

[3:39] Meghan: Cause there was like, I mean, love the Tonys for this.

[3:42] Meghan: They were done 10 minutes early.

[3:43] Meghan: They were like, We're ready, get over there, but then you're just watching the last 10 minutes of Big Brother while you wait for the Tonys.

[3:50] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[3:50] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I like it was interesting how they um they gave out the last what three or four awards, the big awards on the like performance end.

[3:59] Meghan: And I'm just yeah, I'm also afraid that the first section will become the new like design uh tech awards that no one you can see or no one watches, and it's just gonna get pared down, and like eventually in five years, it's just gonna be two hours of performances and none of the awards, or like just the two or three awards.

[4:20] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, that's a good point.

[4:22] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It's like they're admitting how inside it is, but at the same time that's like damaging to widening the audience.

[4:30] Meghan: Yeah.

[4:31] Meghan: I don't know.

[4:31] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It was it was very strange.

[4:33] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And it was also I was thinking about this last night, um, because before the pandemic I was working on Girl from the North Country, and I was looking at like some of their stuff on Instagram, and I'm like, if they would have known that I I know that it's because all the voters didn't get in in time to see all the shows, but like I feel like when they made that cutoff for the shows, they thought the Tonys were gonna happen like September 2020.

[4:59] Meghan: And the fact that there's like a handful of shows that already opened and got reviewed, and they're like getting pushed in the next year, is really weird to me.

[5:06] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I don't know.

[5:07] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It made like it felt like there were like five shows nominated for everything.

[5:11] Meghan: Yeah.

[5:12] Meghan: Yeah.

[5:13] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I mean, in an error and debate.

[5:15] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh my gosh.

[5:16] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I wish you would have had a better sense of humor about that.

[5:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like he didn't even like I know he was like keeping it serious, and he said some nice stuff, but like he could have joked a little bit about so many of those.

[5:31] Meghan: That was weird there.

[5:33] Meghan: Yeah, totally missed.

[5:34] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I feel like I feel like one of my favorite moments was when Audra McDonald like read her own name from the teleprompter.

[5:41] Meghan: That was the best moment.

[5:45] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Audra was great.

[5:46] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like she it was weird to like, why couldn't Audra just keep doing it?

[5:50] Meghan: Why do we have to go over to Leslie Odom?

[5:52] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, or they could have both have hosted both things the whole time.

[5:55] Meghan: Right.

[5:56] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I don't know.

[5:57] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I just feel like she's no offense to Leslie Odom.

[5:59] Meghan: Well, a little, I guess.

[6:00] Harrow Sansom Thesis: She's just so much more charming.

[6:02] Harrow Sansom Thesis: You know what I mean?

[6:03] Meghan: And she's very natural at that stuff.

[6:05] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, and she's funnier.

[6:06] Meghan: Yeah.

[6:06] Meghan: So she was great.

[6:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[6:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Obviously, Jennifer Holliday blew everyone away, and just I I was crying.

[6:14] Meghan: Like that was Yeah.

[6:15] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And I like how everyone brought it up afterwards.

[6:18] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like we couldn't stop talking about it.

[6:20] Meghan: And then like I stayed for Wheels, Wheels of a Dream.

[6:23] Meghan: Like that was so great.

[6:25] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I got like I'm getting chills just thinking about it right now.

[6:28] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Made me so happy.

[6:29] Meghan: Yeah.

[6:29] Meghan: I think that's the one I was saying to my partner.

[6:31] Meghan: I was like, I think that's the show that I would, if I could time travel and go back and see is like original Broadway cast Ragtime.

[6:37] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Hell yeah.

[6:38] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh my gosh.

[6:39] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[6:39] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That was cool.

[6:40] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I liked the duet thing.

[6:42] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um I thought that was like a good way to acknowledge like we don't have a lot to perform, but here's some things that you know and love about Broadway.

[6:51] Meghan: Um so that was cool.

[6:53] Meghan: I mean, it was kind of an eclectic mix, but it definitely felt like uh Lucy was saying, like, oh, this means that the people who are running the Tonys and making these decisions now are like our age, and like these are the musicals that were really important to them.

[7:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That's true.

[7:09] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That's a really good point.

[7:11] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[7:12] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I don't know what was happening.

[7:14] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like the first two in the award section were like lovely, but uh oh yeah.

[7:21] Meghan: Yeah, Alice Drocker, beautiful performance.

[7:23] Meghan: She's a wonderful performer.

[7:25] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But then I feel like following her with Jennifer Nettles, and then you have oh yeah, like these two white women.

[7:31] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I'm like, why why is this happening right now?

[7:34] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um singing ballads, and I just felt like that could have been mixed up a little more.

[7:39] Meghan: Now that you've said that, I like blocked out half the performances in real life.

[7:43] Meghan: I feel like I remembered a couple.

[7:46] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Uh yeah.

[7:47] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I feel like like I didn't love the Josh Groban one.

[7:51] Meghan: No.

[7:52] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I'm just always like underwhelmed by him, usually anyway.

[7:55] Meghan: Um, see, I love Josh Groban, but I'm like, this there was a lot of unnecessary things.

[8:00] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It was like this is this feels like it's such a blatant, like, look at us popular America.

[8:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like, you know, like look at these people that are kind of involved in theater that we can get you interested in this one.

[8:14] Meghan: Like even like the Andrew Rannells, Titus Burgess duet, which I liked.

[8:18] Meghan: I thought it was cool, but I was like, the only reason these two people are in this is because they've been on TV shows that people may have watched.

[8:24] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, yeah.

[8:25] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It's just very it's not for the theater people.

[8:30] Meghan: Yeah.

[8:30] Meghan: Also, like, oh look, we're like making theater gay, but only like cis gay men gay.

[8:37] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Right.

[8:37] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, totally.

[8:39] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I'm trying to think of like the actual awards were totally disappointing to me, but it's not like there was a lot of alternative.

[8:46] Meghan: I was really excited to see A Soldier's Play win stuff because I feel like it had such a limited moment right before the pandemic.

[8:54] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So I'm glad that people remembered it.

[8:56] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It was a really incredible play.

[8:58] Meghan: Should we touch on Lauren Patten and Jagged Little Pill?

[9:03] Harrow Sansom Thesis: You know, it it was disappointing and and kind of painful to see her win for uh win a Tony for Jagged Little Pill.

[9:11] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like with all the controversy happening, and yes, there was an acknowledgement, but I also didn't hear an apology.

[9:19] Meghan: Totally.

[9:19] Meghan: Yeah.

[9:20] Harrow Sansom Thesis: As they were announcing like her name, she was walking up.

[9:22] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I'm like, all right, she's gonna let him have it.

[9:24] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And she's gonna nope.

[9:26] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Thanks the producers.

[9:28] Meghan: Yeah.

[9:29] Meghan: It was yeah, I don't know.

[9:32] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Like you won the Tony.

[9:33] Harrow Sansom Thesis: You can now just they need you more than you need them because they want to say they have a Tony Award-winning performance in their show.

[9:41] Meghan: So just like bring them to task.

[9:42] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I don't know.

[9:44] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, and I feel like there's I think a lot of back and forth about the anger at Lauren Patten about this.

[9:52] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And I think it most of it is justified, but I also think it is also and holding the creative team and the producers uh accountable for this too, because it's not just her, and like, yes, she could make a decision to you know leave the show or do something more than what she's done, but there there are more folks than just her, who's she's like the public face of this scandal, right?

[10:17] Meghan: Yeah, right.

[10:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I don't see her leaving, yeah, or doing any more than what she did with that speech.

[10:25] Meghan: Yeah, it's unfortunate.

[10:27] Meghan: And and I still haven't watched that conversation with her and Shekinah I need to, but um I haven't either.

[10:32] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I know it's gonna piss me off, so I but even like I feel like even if she is like apologizing and it's a good conversation, like it's still very insular and only the people who are gonna see it are the people who are invested in this and it's not reaching like the wider audience that being a Tony winner, being on a Broadway production touches people and see and people see that, you know.

[10:59] Meghan: Mm-hmm.

[11:00] Meghan: There's a lot of disappointing wins, but that one was that one I think especially so.

[11:06] Harrow Sansom Thesis: A lot of the other wins too, I'm just like, uh there was no other choices really.

[11:12] Meghan: I was very happy for Danny Burstein.

[11:14] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Uh oh yeah.

[11:16] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I mean he deserves all the Tony person.

[11:18] Meghan: Right.

[11:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Unlimited awards for Danny Burstein.

[11:23] Meghan: What a sweetheart.

[11:24] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[11:25] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So talented too.

[11:26] Meghan: Mm-hmm.

[11:27] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Everything he does is just so fun to watch.

[11:30] Meghan: Yeah.

[11:31] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And everything he does, he's the best thing about it.

[11:33] Harrow Sansom Thesis: You know.

[11:34] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But not in a way that's like, I'm the star.

[11:37] Meghan: You know, he's like always supporting cast members more than they deserve, Aaron to be.

[11:43] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Uh if you could give if Thesis on Joan had our own Tony Awards or an award, uh, who would you want to give one to?

[11:50] Meghan: Yeah.

[11:51] Meghan: I think looking at the last year and a half, uh, I would want to give it to Elle Morgan Lee for everything that she has been doing everywhere.

[12:01] Meghan: Digitally, in person, you know, working on the um working on the Danish Girl um workshop in London and like all of the really just like uplifting, but also like moments of truth, like yeah, uh things that she's put online.

[12:18] Meghan: It's been I don't know, it's been a bright bright spot for me during the pandemic and I just am excited that she's gonna come out of the last year and a half with like I think a lot more attention and a lot more projects and like you know I everyone kind of knew her just from Strange Loop before which is great but she's been like hustling but not just for personal gain for like community awareness and I just love her and all the work that she does.

[12:54] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[12:54] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I think I would give mine I was felt really conflicted about Moulin Rouge sweeping everything and like no mention of Karen Olivo and like every time you saw her face and the videos and stuff I'm like oh I wish you know she would have more she got more um attention and props for like her contribution to the show and so I feel like I would give mine to her.

[13:18] Meghan: And you know I think what they did earlier or last year when they announced they're not uh coming back to Moulin Rouge was such a a powerful move and you know highlighting uh giving up of power and as a woman of color as a person of color I'm like oh this isn't the people who we necessarily want to be giving up power but uh I applaud her for her reasons why and you know it does take a certain amount of privilege to be able to turn down jobs like that but you know I don't want it to to disappear and like not be remembered and and honored I guess in the future.

[14:00] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So yeah, I really appreciate them and on all the work she's been doing.

[14:04] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And I feel like I constantly see her at the like panels and the like town halls, and like they're constantly showing up.

[14:11] Meghan: So really appreciate that.

[14:13] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, they's such an advocate for not only like their fellow artists, but also like the next generation of theater artists.

[14:21] Meghan: And I think we were both hoping that more people would follow like what she had done with her quitting the show.

[14:30] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And yeah, it's sad that they were kind of like on their own.

[14:35] Meghan: Um when especially when you look at Willon Rouge.

[14:38] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But yeah, agreed.

[14:39] Meghan: All the Tonies to Karen Olivo.

[14:41] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So let's move to our action of the app for this episode.

[14:45] Meghan: We're focusing on mass incarceration and solitary confinement for New York uh state and New York City.

[14:52] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So you can follow the New York campaign for alternatives to isolated confinement or the CAIC, the hashtag HALTsolitary Campaign and Vocal New York, and they're all fighting to end solitary confinement and reduce the incarcerated population in state prisons and local jails led by directly impacted New Yorkers and people who have experienced incarceration and criminalization.

[15:17] Meghan: CAIC and hashtag HALTsolitary Campaign's common goal is a sweeping reform of New York's use of solitary confinement and other forms of extreme isolation in state prisons and local jails.

[15:29] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So the HALT Solitary Act stands for Humane Alternative to Long-Term Solitary Confinement Act, uh, which is currently making its way through the New York State Legislature.

[15:40] Meghan: And we'll link to this in our show notes.

[15:42] Harrow Sansom Thesis: You could use the phone to action tool to email, tweet, and call city council speaker Corey Johnson to urge him and the city council to truly end solitary confinement in New York City.

[15:53] Meghan: If you don't live in New York, you can research your area and find local organizations that are doing similar work and help support them too.

[16:00] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Today we are so excited to sit down with our guest, Miss Hazel Jade.

[16:05] Meghan: Miss Hazel Jade is a theatrical director, dramaturg, playwright, librettist, literary consultant, and former investor, both to Broadway and the West End.

[16:14] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Some of the projects she's invested in or been dramaturg for include Waitress, Once on This Island, Spongebob, Frozen, Moulin Rouge, Pretty Woman, Beetlejuice, and Ain't Too Proud.

[16:26] Meghan: After the COVID-19 pandemic, Miss Hazel returned to an earlier love of directing for the stage, where she is now the director of The Regulars, a new folk musical by Will Shishmanian, which moved to the UK for development.

[16:39] Harrow Sansom Thesis: She's also the director of Off Broadway Bound Musicals, 2000 Miles and Rain, and the creator of two television pilots along with three films in development.

[16:48] Meghan: Miss Hazel Jade also has a thriving career as a private dramaturg and literary consultant for musicals, both New York's and Revivals, where she collaborates with writers to develop strong female leads.

[16:58] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Personally, she is a proud Afro-Latinx bisexual woman.

[17:02] Meghan: All right.

[17:03] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Well, welcome to the podcast, Miss Hazel.

[17:05] Meghan: We are so excited to have you.

[17:09] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And we always start with by asking our guests to share their name, pronouns, and anything else you would like to share about how you identify.

[17:16] Miss Hazel Jade: Amazing. My name is Miss Hazel Jade. I go by she/her pronouns. And I am just a theater maker. That's what I do. That's who I am.

[17:27] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Amazing. Yeah. And you know, as we were looking doing more research about you, you have so many roles in the theater world. You're a director, a dramaturg, a playwright, a librettist, a literary consultant, and an investor.

[17:40] Meghan: It's a lot.

[17:41] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah.

[17:42] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. Can you kind of talk us um through how you move through those roles and like what kind of work are you most excited about these days?

[17:53] Miss Hazel Jade: All right. I am uh how do I put it? I started in theater as most people do as a performer um many, many years ago. I trained uh with this little group out of Torrance in California. Um, and for me it was quite thrilling, I guess, uh, because uh I finally found a way to reconnect to the arts after my grandmere passed uh when I was six, she kind of introduced me to the theater with like Into the Woods and The Lion King, um, and it was our thing. We'd go to the theater once a month, and then that abruptly stopped, and I was still yearning for it.

[18:34] Miss Hazel Jade: And I tell a lot of my collaborators now that one of the reasons why I love theater is because it quite frankly is magical, and um, we can do certain things to continue to create that magic and to share it with young kids and adults, um, which is why I love it. I did a lot of shows like Peter Pan and Oliver, um, and The Wizard of Oz, Big River, Mary Poppins, um, The Sound of Music. Um, but think of it as like high budget shows with about a hundred and five, hundred and six uh kid performers and adults. It was wild. I miss it.

[19:12] Miss Hazel Jade: Um I would go back. It was so good. Um, and uh my first show, Peter Pan, which is it was my favorite childhood book, and I was so keen on doing it. Uh I actually did the show with Adam many, many years ago, Adam Lambert. Um and it it's been interesting keeping in touch over the years.

[19:36] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, and I am actually revisiting Neverland in a piece soon that we'll talk about later.

[19:43] Meghan: Ooh, what a tease.

[19:45] Miss Hazel Jade: That's great.

[19:47] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That's awesome.

[19:49] Meghan: Yeah, I'm excited. And so how do you decide how you want to work on a project?

[19:55] Miss Hazel Jade: And I guess like in what capacity you want to work on a project? Like what's exciting to be a dramaturg on, what's more interesting when you're actually writing? Like how does that play out?

[20:07] Miss Hazel Jade: Of course. Uh I think for me, I I got into dramaturgy because uh when acting kind of became boring to me and I wanted to get into more things, um, I started writing uh because I was a black performer.

[20:20] Miss Hazel Jade: Uh I kind of got involved in the Chitlin circuit, um, which is like a smaller version of theater. Uh, and I did a few shows uh in some small spaces, and when I uh grew those spaces, I went to a larger space like the Wilshire E Bell in LA, which was uh 127 DC or I think it was. Um, and I got to perform there, which was amazing, and uh uh I did some professional shows and some uh regional shows here and there.

[20:51] Miss Hazel Jade: I directed Beauty and the Beast more times than I can count. Um I've done Oliver, which I I'm obsessed with um papa. There's a little bit of um papa in The Regulars, actually.

[21:03] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, and I did Into the Woods.

[21:06] Miss Hazel Jade: Always good to have a Um Papa reference.

[21:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I can't have it.

[21:11] Miss Hazel Jade: Um and uh because I was a book writer um and had done it for uh quite a few years, I went to school and I studied playwriting.

[21:23] Miss Hazel Jade: Um I ended up going to Juilliard and it was fun and thrilling, and straight out of school I got my first job on Broadway as a dramaturg, which was crazy because I had no idea that I was experienced and I loved every minute of the show.

[21:39] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um obviously I can't show I can't share the name of the show, um, but it was a fun experience and I kind of kept doing it.

[21:48] Miss Hazel Jade: It was fun, I guess, for me to help other writers explore what was not necessarily wrong, but what could be improved in their pieces?

[21:58] Miss Hazel Jade: Um sometimes what I couldn't do on my own pieces. For me I I guess I define dramaturgy as or my role as I see it as helping writers and composers and uh directors kind of get their material to the best place possible for the story that they're trying to tell.

[22:19] Miss Hazel Jade: And I get to do that on so many shows, and I I love every minute of it.

[22:22] Meghan: Oh, that's awesome.

[22:24] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[22:25] Meghan: And then if when you're trying to choose a project, then do people usually like approach you with a role, or do you kind or you're like you suss them out and feel like, oh, where do I fit in here?

[22:34] Miss Hazel Jade: When I'm doing dramaturgy specifically for me, I think uh a lot of uh directors or uh theater companies will approach me um saying that they have a writer who's uh not exactly getting the story that they need to uh that they need for either marketing reasons or commercialization reasons.

[22:55] Miss Hazel Jade: Um, and so I I step in and kind of try to urge the drama to happen, if you will.

[23:01] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, and that that's been a fun experience for me.

[23:05] Miss Hazel Jade: Uh as an investor, I kind of find shows that I love, shows that I'm passionate about.

[23:10] Miss Hazel Jade: And for me, it uh usually has to be a really, really, really gay show.

[23:15] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, and when I say gay, I mean uh queer, not like white cis men.

[23:22] Miss Hazel Jade: Um but it's it's gotta be very gay.

[23:26] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And uh a lot of the shows, even if they weren't gay, it was either um a really black show that I was obsessed with or a show that had a phenomenal female lead producer and couldn't stay away, if you will.

[23:38] Meghan: Yeah.

[23:39] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And speaking of investing, uh, so one of your bios, you say you're a former investor.

[23:45] Meghan: So are you are you kind of done with that role with shows?

[23:50] Miss Hazel Jade: And like uh what do you wish you had known about investing in in Broadway and West End shows before you started?

[23:57] Miss Hazel Jade: Of course. For me, I think I am right now done uh with shows. I kind of want to reform everything from the inside on an artistic level.

[24:07] Miss Hazel Jade: Um I don't have any intentions of picking it up or picking it back up, but we'll see.

[24:13] Miss Hazel Jade: Um every now and then there's a a show that calls to me, or it's uh something from my young adulthood or my young childhood that I loved.

[24:21] Miss Hazel Jade: Shows like Once on This Island, I uh shared to my story this morning that I was obsessed with Once on This Island because Lynn Ahrens wrote uh a little line in The Sad Tale of the Bozomes uh that uh says they despise us for our blackness.

[24:36] Miss Hazel Jade: It reminds them where they're from. And as a young female theater artist, it really kind of saved me from the brink of um alive, and it was quite amazing.

[24:48] Miss Hazel Jade: Uh, but for me, uh I think I don't I don't want to return to uh investing right now.

[24:53] Miss Hazel Jade: I primarily because one Broadway doesn't need any more investors um until they reform itself.

[25:00] Miss Hazel Jade: I kind of want to decenter Broadway as much as possible and kind of return to uh grassroots nonprofit regional theater and uh kind of get more kids into theater.

[25:13] Miss Hazel Jade: Uh it's been my mission to continue to inspire next generations uh so that our industry doesn't die entirely.

[25:21] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And that's that's where my mind is right now.

[25:24] Miss Hazel Jade: Decentering Broadway.

[25:25] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That just like that right there got me.

[25:29] Miss Hazel Jade: I'm sorry to say that on the Broadway uh so great.

[25:34] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It's not it's a place, but I would even dare to say that Broadway is like America, an idea of what theater could be, and I don't think it's lived up to the idea that it set out to be.

[25:49] Miss Hazel Jade: It's not an idea that includes everyone.

[25:52] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I like it purports to it doesn't and doesn't include uh black and brown bodies, it doesn't include uh women all that uh often.

[26:01] Miss Hazel Jade: Um it definitely excludes queer and trans people, and that's not what I want to be a part of.

[26:07] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[26:08] Miss Hazel Jade: Which is why I moved all of my shows to London, and they have treated us well.

[26:14] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And um actually, today we moved The Regulars from the heart of London, which is kind of gentrified and uh it's got its whole thing to Manchester, um, which is very, very, very queer.

[26:27] Meghan: And I am excited to see what becomes of it.

[26:31] Miss Hazel Jade: Oh, my old uh boss uh lives in Manchester now, so I'll have to tell you.

[26:35] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh amazing stuff, yeah.

[26:37] Miss Hazel Jade: Should be able to see it next January.

[26:40] Meghan: Oh great.

[26:41] Miss Hazel Jade: That's so soon.

[26:42] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yes.

[26:44] Miss Hazel Jade: We're we're doing a small little uh workshop, uh the three-week workshop.

[26:49] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Um, but because of moving the show, um we're kind of gonna open up our presentations uh to the queer community to come and see and be a part of.

[27:01] Meghan: Oh, I've so many follow-up questions from what you just said.

[27:04] Miss Hazel Jade: I'm gonna try to limit it down.

[27:06] Harrow Sansom Thesis: No, no, no.

[27:07] Miss Hazel Jade: Ask as many questions as you want.

[27:09] Harrow Sansom Thesis: But the move from Broadway to the West End, it sounds like that's both with the people that you're creating with and with the audiences.

[27:19] Miss Hazel Jade: Is that the case or

[27:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah, th uh I always uh uh kind of go from the Broadway mindset of if you set a show in a certain place, um, and especially if it desperately has an audience and The Regulars has a built-in audience of queer folks and uh trans folks with Shish being a trans writer, um and Iris being in the show and so many other people that it I think our kids at our um audience will come to us uh regardless of of who they are.

[27:54] Miss Hazel Jade: Um so I'm I'm quite excited about that.

[27:57] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I've like I love the idea.

[27:59] Miss Hazel Jade: I feel like you never see it of opening up like the early um like early looks at shows to not and doing air quotes, not professionals, right?

[28:10] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Not theater professionals.

[28:11] Miss Hazel Jade: So w what do you think like your production will gain from like kind of being less closed door when it comes to accessing the audience that you ultimately want to reach

[28:11] Miss Hazel Jade: absolutely I think for me it was important to engage the community we do it a lot in uh nonprofit theater and we do it sometimes in our out of town tryouts before we transfer shows to Broadway um but uh I think bringing the community in closer it'll allow us to see what not problems per se but uh areas of improvement we can uh have with the show um it'll give us direct feedback.

[28:11] Miss Hazel Jade: I think one of the reasons why I have stayed in the theater and never left um even though I do write like film and TV every now and then but one of the reasons why I stay is because I've always seen uh the theater as uh a place to get direct feedback from your audience and to be able to have our audience right on the ground with us as we're doing a workshop is it's gonna be scary and exciting.

[28:11] Miss Hazel Jade: Um, I think for me as a director, I'm gonna constantly be watching the audience to see where they connect with storylines, what gets a laugh, what doesn't, things we'll see in that a town tryout, but we'll get to see earlier. And I think most importantly for me is seeing what storylines or pieces of dialogue or songs might trigger folks so that we can pull back if we need to because it is a very scary and vulnerable show.

[29:46] Miss Hazel Jade: I have a follow up question about like Broadway versus the West End.

[29:50] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Absolutely, what do you think is the difference there? Is it just like what the idea of Broadway is or historical context?

[29:57] Miss Hazel Jade: No, it's actually, I was just shocked in moving from New York theater and from the states entirely, which is purely based on capitalism, to London. I remember my very first meeting with a producer and I heard it about three or four more times after that is that they just wanted me to create art in a room and not focus on commercializing the show, which I've never ever heard in theater even back in my nonprofit days. So it was nice to see that I could just create art. I could just create gay art even if we said on stage fuck white men. It's acceptable and that's what we do.

[30:41] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Wow. And then I guess with that mindset and thinking about investing, which you're moving away from, which you have many other things that you're doing to the world and we're happy you're doing that instead. How there's been a lot of like attempts I feel like at disrupting the normal way that shows are invested but nothing's like really stuck like we're always in this old model of you know there's not a lot like there was I think a couple attempts at crowdfunding but in terms of like commercial producing that doesn't typically happen. Do you have any thoughts on like should we disrupt it? Is there a better way?

[31:16] Miss Hazel Jade: I have a lot of thoughts. I'll say initially getting into investing for me was a huge eye opener, one because they'll always tell you don't expect a return on investment. But even before then, the problem with American theater, but especially on Broadway, is who is actually eligible and who can invest. Because you practically and quite literally have to be a millionaire in order to invest in Broadway. And I don't mean that metaphorically, New York State law kind of requires that if you're gonna invest in a first-class production, you have to be making a million dollars a year, which is so stupid. But it's their law. So I think we start by changing those laws. And every now and then you'll have a producer who can find a loophole like they did on Montana's Highland.

But it doesn't happen too often, and I think it's primarily because producers, like many of my friends who I will not name, won't change or they won't change their minds and they're not willing to put in the work to truly make Broadway equitable, both for performers and for creatives and investors and producers alike. They kind of like the comfortability of the Neederlanders and Ju Jamson running everything.

[32:42] Harrow Sansom Thesis: It's so frustrating with those laws too, because it's like you either have to be a millionaire or you have to have friends that amount to millionaires, you know, and it's like how that shuts out the great majority of the population, and it's no wonder that we end up with what we end up with on the stage.

[33:00] Miss Hazel Jade: Exactly. But it's worse than that. It's because of these stupid laws and because Broadway can't recoup, and I have many reasons why it can't recoup, we don't get to see as many new works on Broadway as we should. We're constantly seeing very, very, very stupid fucking revivals, like many of the revivals coming this season. I shall not name names except for, you know, we got it. The Music Man and everything else. But yeah, it starts by reminding Broadway producers that they don't get to dictate what shows should go on stage. It kind of is up to performers and the audience alike. And they love telling us what we should see or what we want to see. And I think it's time we remind them what we do want to see, and it kind of starts by not going to see these terrible shows like Fine Girl and Tootsie that's getting ready to tour.

But in saying that I also have to advocate against asking performers to quit their jobs because of shitty shows. Because it kind of pays their bills, and I would never tell a black performer in Tootsie or any other show to quit their job.

[34:20] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I feel like in London you see more risk, not risk taking, but you see more variety of work. But I mean, do you think that's because of government subsidies, or do you think it's because of investment laws or different?

[34:34] Miss Hazel Jade: One of the first things that I heard back to back to back when I first got to London was that it is a thousand times cheaper to produce a show in London than it is on Broadway. I have no fucking idea why still I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. But what we spend 23 and a half million dollars producing on Broadway might be about five million pounds on the West End. And it's fun and exciting. And we try a lot of shit out. We're willing to fail. And then I think one of the reasons why I like Broadway in a sense is that Broadway has a lot more open-ended shows where you see West End shows that are strictly limited, like Wonderville that just closed. I think the only original or new pieces that are open there, aside from Come From Away, which was actually a Broadway transfer.

We've got Anne Juliet, Tina Turner, the Broadway musical started there, Girl from the North Country started there, it closed. Company started there, it closed. So it's frustrating to see only stuff coming from New York that's able to be sustainable. But let's I have my fingers crossed that Anne Juliet stays open and that they bring Jamie back and that The Regulars kind of gets an open-ended run. And I think that I remember when I first signed on to The Regulars, I immediately told Shish that I was gonna stretch the timeline just so that it can last longer. So we stretched our development timeline because I want to build a show that can be open-ended and then transfer over to that terrible place in three or four years.

[36:21] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That's such a marker of like white supremacy too, is urgency.

[36:26] Miss Hazel Jade: Yes, exactly. So it's amazing to be able to take your time with it more. But it's also like urgency, like they rush really good shows, and then they take their time or put their money into like really, really, really wide shows. Or shows that they want to see things like Funny Girl that we should never see again. They really put their money and their time into stuff that doesn't matter. There is actually a show coming to Broadway that is produced by a former friend of mine, and it's a trans storyline that I don't think needs to be on Broadway because it is way, way, way behind its time. But it's produced by the white guy who is going to ruin everything and he doesn't listen and he's been forcing it like he forced another show that flopped in a matter of a week. He's forcing it to Broadway. And there's nothing in the model to stop something like that.

[37:22] Harrow Sansom Thesis: No, I have emailed him a billion times to cancel it and he's adamant that it's gonna be a hit as he loves to say.

[37:30] Miss Hazel Jade: Great. Yeah.

[37:31] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So get ready for that. It's gonna be amazing.

[37:34] Miss Hazel Jade: You know more trash.

[37:36] Harrow Sansom Thesis: More trash not the trash we wanted.

[37:40] Miss Hazel Jade: We always said we wanted queer trash but not like that. We want like I bet it will be celebrated just to be like, oh there's a trans story on Broadway.

[37:50] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah, it is gonna get that buzz. They've finally after it being in development for five years they've attached some trans, some actual trans people and not a composer who says that he used to cross dress as a kid. So that's fascinating in and of itself. Wow, a podcast about this I will go on and on about it once it opens.

[38:13] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Well we want to switch to your more like artistic side. As a dramaturg and a director and a writer, what's important to you when you're working with queer stories and queer characters?

[38:24] Miss Hazel Jade: Absolutely. I think for me it starts any piece that I take on as a director now that I'm back directing, I kind of have to be entirely and absolutely obsessed with the piece. And before the pandemic hit I had no intention, no plan, had no idea that I would return to Broadway. I'm sorry, to directing. I knew I wasn't gonna return to Broadway. That already mapped out. But I didn't think that I would return to directing ever because it burned me years ago and it hurt. But I reached a point in the pandemic last October where I was insanely depressed, and I was going like on five or six walks around the riverwalk at my house, just like pulling my hair out because I was bored to shit. I was missing the theater like crazy, even though I said I was leaving the theater.

So I immediately texted Shish and I asked him to send me some folk music, and that fuck, that fucker. I love him to death. But he decides he's gonna send me a folk musical, not any music. Even though he writes phenomenal folk music, the likes of like Chanice Ian and Joni. It was weird getting a musical, especially after having been away from musical theater for so many months. And I remember listening to the first three songs, and I was hooked, and I asked him to send me some more material from it. And I paged through it in a matter of 30 minutes. It was the first 20 pages of the show, and I immediately called him and said, I have to direct this show. No matter what happens, I have to direct it.

Because I was obsessed with the piece. I found myself in it. I wanted to live in the world that it took place in. And quite frankly, I think I can say that I've lived in Amberland since October of 2020. And I never want to leave and I want to bring everyone to that world. So I'm excited about that. And that kind of inspires me with every project is I have to be insanely obsessed with the piece. The characters obviously have to be right. And they have to be people that I'm constantly rooting for, and yet at the same time, characters I just want to give a big old hug to because I see their pain and I know their pain.

[41:02] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And speaking of your characters, you put an emphasis on developing strong female leads in your dramaturg and literary consultant work.

[41:10] Miss Hazel Jade: Absolutely. But how do you see that applying to the rest of your work as well, maybe in The Regulars?

[41:15] Miss Hazel Jade: Absolutely. So The Regulars, the first character that I connected with really wasn't the main character. I don't even think the main character is the main character. I connected with Danny, the black queer woman in the show. Because I know what it's like to start theater and have people try to fuck it up or try to kill your dreams, or Broadway producers try to tell you that you're too ambitious. I want to create safe spaces for people. So I instantly saw myself in her, and there's this big number she sings in the middle of act one called Picture This. And I realized how strong she was and how much she didn't take shit, no matter how much shit she was thrown on her. And I take that and I kind of have to match every show that I read, which is why I'm not directing too much right now, against The Regulars or against Rain because I want my characters to be, especially my women and my trans characters and my non-binary characters to be folks who kind of don't depend on anyone or aren't dependent on their co-star, so to speak, and kind of stand on their own and can be badasses.

[42:34] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I love that. And that doesn't mean that there aren't men in the show, there just aren't as many men as men would like to say. I leave just enough men for like your mother to see and lust over and come buy another ticket for church end.

[42:49] Miss Hazel Jade: Just the right amount. That's what I do. Yes, exactly. Oh, that's great. And we've talked a little bit about like the industry and like what we want to see change, but now that theater is coming back and more in-person stuff is happening, like what do you want to see change in the theater industry from this past year with these recent calls to action?

[43:11] Miss Hazel Jade: I think for me, I want to see equitable theater, period. I want to see people, especially performers and techies, valued for their work. I want to see us working less hours a week, less days a week. I want all male producers to go away and all male directors to go away, but they're not going to. But I also want to see more. I know we've had quite a few trans folks on Broadway, but I want to see more trans folks on Broadway. I want to see more black women leading shows. I want to see more black creative teams. And I don't want it to be this performative bullshit that we have on Broadway right now, but true. And that's not to take a dig at any of the pieces. The pieces are phenomenal. I'm more worried about the producers being performative, and then in a year or two, once they've distracted us enough, going right back to producing the same shit they produced before the pandemic hit.

So for me, it's really about seeing everyone treated equally and respectfully, and if not, then seeing those people who are harming artists kind of fizzle out and go away. And I think that starts with dissolving the Broadway League. That's a whole podcast episode.

[44:33] Harrow Sansom Thesis: We have to do a lot of follow-up conversations.

[44:33] Miss Hazel Jade: Maybe Ms. Hazel. It would be if you could see my face when Ms. Hazel said that, but it was a gleeful grin. I would love to see it go away. And it's weird that like even AEA, and I'm proud that I'm not a member of AEA anymore, and I'm not a performer anymore, but it's frustrating to see AEA filter who's allowed to be a member, only because they're catering to the Broadway League. It's like telling performers, we want to protect you, but not at the expense of protecting the show that wants to treat you terribly. And if we do away with both of them and just allow performers to manage themselves, and we as a community support performers when they come out regardless of any abuse on Broadway, I think that it might be a better experience.

In London, there is an equity, but unlike on Broadway, you're not forced to become a member when you hit a first-class production. Like Broadway instantly forces you to become an equity member. On the West End, you can be your own performer and hit the West End and get paid more and get treated with respect and do shows you love. And not have to talk about your sexuality in every fucking interview. You get to just be a human, which Broadway producers don't love. Like Broadway producers don't love entertainment producers, don't love when you're a queer artist and won't obsess over your queerness. So we should all move to London, is what we're I mean, that's what I have said for many months, but do what you're gonna do. It's a safe space for art, and I've got a lot of shows in the pipeline there, and I advocate for as many performers and creatives to come over. I wish we could go over more often. Doors wide open.

[46:38] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah. Like this, they didn't come from away, come in, the doors open. Now, is there a creator or I guess creators is the most general word I can get. A creator that's working today in theater that you're really excited about and you would encourage our listeners to follow their work?

[46:56] Miss Hazel Jade: Besides you, of course. For me, I mean, obviously me, obviously was Shish, because Shish is a phenomenal writer. I think for me it's less about creators and that's no to get creators I just don't have much attention to notice them, or I don't get to see as many newer creators as much as I'd like to, and I see a lot more producers. But right now I love everything that Elliot and Harper, who's producing company is doing with the gender-swapped company if gender exists. Even though I'm not a fan of revivals, they're also doing an all-black The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe right now, which is gorgeous. Got some other projects that are coming up that I won't talk about. Or even like I said, and Juliet on Broadway, Hope Mill down are up in Manchester, who's actually signing on to The Regulars, Hope Mill is doing some phenomenal stuff.

I am someone who, and this is gonna be the most unpopular thing, but I hate Rent as a musical, but they are doing a production of Rent that is probably the most spectacular piece I've ever seen, and that's really good. That's all in London. Here in the States though, I'm probably most excited about We Won't Sleep, which is a musical shepherded by Jen Bender about, it's a phenomenal music I advise you to look into it. And Carolina Chain, which is going to Broadway soon. I wish it was running longer. I'm excited to see it. But I think that's everything that I'm looking at right now. Oh, and then obviously if I wanted to, and if Chicago wasn't simultaneously running on Broadway, I would take the Muny production to Broadway of Chicago, but you know, it's running with a bunch of folks that don't deserve jobs. It's not going away forever. I mean, performers will kill themselves, they will harm their staff, and it's just gonna stop. They're running on a nickel. Oh god, kill me.

[49:16] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That's a ton, thank you.

[49:17] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah. We all have a show that we hate that's, I hate Les Mis. Everyone has a show that they don't like popular opinion. The most overproduced piece of work by Cameron Mackintosh Shefford. Yeah, that was all like another unpopular opinion, but all Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals he tends to fuck shit up. Like when he did The Wizard of Oz, he fucked that up. He's currently doing Cinderella.

[49:42] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I was gonna say, do you know have you seen the Cinderella or anything?

[49:45] Miss Hazel Jade: I love Carrie Hope Fletcher who's starring in it. I love Yvonne who's starring in it. I hate Cinderella, his version of Cinderella. I think I would rather see Brandy sing in my own little corner every fucking day rather than see that musical. But it also just goes to show that like Andrew Lloyd Webber and his best friends Cameron Mackintosh need to go away. Go eat soup and go on long walks during the day and take your naps, but don't be in theater.

[50:17] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That was a pretty nice prescription, actually.

[50:22] Miss Hazel Jade: Just go, I would say go fuck yourself, but I won't eat soup. Yeah, it's going to be and then yeah, we definitely want to talk about your work on developing and directing the folk musical you mentioned, The Regulars. So can you tell us about like the story of the show and when we might be able to see it?

[50:43] Miss Hazel Jade: Of course. I'm kinda gonna go back. Like I said, I started on the production a few months ago. Not a few months ago, it's a whole year now. A whole year ago, and we did a reading of the first few scenes back in January, which was amazing. We've cut some demos here and there and released some things with Iris Minas and with Jada Valenciaga, who's a phenomenal performer. The show's about a trans guy named Mark who after some trouble with his family moves away from his hometown of West Virginia to this beautiful new upstate town, a very rural town called Amberland, in search of a new family, a chosen family, if you will. And immediately he picks up a job in an orchard, which is I think for me as a director, as a theater maker in general, I don't think I've ever seen a musical or even a film that takes place in an orchard.

It's like one of the weirdest places to set a musical. But I was obsessed with that at the same time. Like I said, he picks up a job at the orchard working in their stock room, and he as a trans man comes to terms with his newfound male privilege. And he also meets Danny, who is this like really butch, really sexy ass black woman who doesn't take shit from the guys at the orchard. She kind of immediately tells them that she can do her own job in a male-dominated industry, and on the side, she introduces him to this queer bar, this really gay ass bar that she's opening. And so many things unfold. You're gonna see a lot of crazy things in it. Like you'll get to see Harvest Festival take place, you'll see a lot not a lot of drag queens, but you'll see a drag queen on roller skates, you'll see a black drag queen getting her entire life, you'll see a lot of lesbian relationships and a lot of bisexual relationships in it.

Obviously you'll see a lot of trans people in it. Yeah, and you might be able to here in the States you probably won't get to see it until 2024-ish. But if you're in London or if you want to come to London, if you want to be on a flight that I might ship over some queer folks to London, you'll get to see it in 2023 on the West End 2022 for an out-of-town try-out in Manchester.

[53:26] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh wow.

[53:27] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah, sign us up for the ship ship. The queer tour. I mean, I have to get some folks over. I mean, you're gonna love everyone in it. It's got some phenomenal stars. Catherine Allison, who's playing our Danny. She's currently in Company on Broadway. You have Iris, who we all know what what's happened with here, and I dare not talk about it here. But and then you've got a slew of other people. There's a phenomenal trans guy in Germany who's coming over to play Mark. And then everyone else is really gay and really in love, and there are a lot of London performers, there's some New York performers that are coming over, and we're just gonna figure out what the heart of our gay show is. There are literally no white gay men scripted in our show.

[54:23] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[54:23] Miss Hazel Jade: I'm sorry, but they don't deserve to be. And it was unintentional to begin with, but I'm keeping it intentional.

[54:31] Harrow Sansom Thesis: I was just gonna say I feel like fans of the show are gonna like build this town and then I'll move to it one day. I'm so excited.

[54:39] Miss Hazel Jade: I mean, there's like the part of me, so this is something secret that we've been talking about, but I guess I can share it here. Is after the show wraps, like once we finish a performance, we're gonna open Danny's gay bar up for theater patrons to kind of join, and it's gonna be a queer bar I just got for a good hour and a half.

[55:01] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Ah so it's gonna be that same space you've always wanted and never had, and it what I love about the bar is it's not your typical like bar, it's a bar in a barn, kind of like Mutt's barn in Schitt's Creek. So I'm quite obsessed with that really rustic feel of our barn and can't wait to see a bunch of queers on stage where we would never invite them on stage.

[55:31] Miss Hazel Jade: Wow. Yeah, amazing. Oh, I cannot believe every aspect of this is just breaking every convention of like I mean I've break all so wonderful. And that's the thing about the West End is here in Broadway there because of equity exists, there's so many rules of what we can and can't do. And here or in London, I kind of don't have any rules. I can do anything I want, and that's why I love creating art there, and will continue to.

[56:01] Harrow Sansom Thesis: And you've created a few different, well, you've collaborated on a few different things with your partner Will Shish Mania. What has that collaboration been like? What keeps you guys working together?

[56:13] Miss Hazel Jade: He's gonna hate me for saying this. But it's really true. Both of us talk a lot. And when I say we talk a lot, I mean since October, every single day except for when we're on holiday, we've probably spent a good two to three, maybe four hours on the phone just talking through the show, talking through our vision. I've really never had a relationship with someone like Shish. And his the way his brain works, I joke to him a lot, but I'm very serious when I say it, that he is probably one of the greatest songwriters of our time because his lyrics don't bullshit you, they kind of tell you the truth. And his text does that as well.

[56:59] Miss Hazel Jade: Um but for us our relationship is built on immense communication. Um I think it's also built on the fact that um all of the women in his life are all Virgos. I'm a Virgo, his mother's a Virgo, his partner's a girl of a Virgo, so because all of us are Virgos, we kind of are very much uh perfectionists and we kind of get in his ear and he knows how to listen, which is really great. Um so it's built on that, but I also think uh that uh our relationship began because we were both working on a show that kind of was traumatizing to us, and um we kind of made it through together and we were uh committed to doing another show. It didn't happen, and then I think a good three or four months after that off-Broadway show wrapped, um, he kind of pitched doing a song cycle of something together.

Um we decided that it wasn't right at the time, and jump months and months and months ahead, and he kind of reveals to me that that piece was what became The Regulars, and I am so happy that it was it wasn't right at that time. Um, because I think if I had written the book to the show, it wouldn't be as authentic as it is. And our relationship is strictly based on the fact that we both talk a lot. And I think we talk so much that we don't realize how much we hate each other, but I I also don't think we hate each other because um we're so dedicated to the work. Um, but so we're doing The Regulars, we've got uh a lot of other projects that he like every week it's like a new show. Um, but after we finish The Regulars, we're doing a really, really, really gay, exciting um uh historical piece um that's currently titled Are you ready for this?

The Lesbian Cello Musical, which is such a clever uh title. Um it's so unique and original. Um but it's based around uh um Frida Bellonfante, who was a lesbian cellist and actress many years ago. Um, and I'm obsessed with her. I'm obsessed with the piece, and I'm excited for audiences to see it because we're doing a lot of cool things like you know, when you walk into a guitar shop and you see like guitars hanging from the ceiling, we're kind of doing that with the set, and it but with cellos instead, and um I always like to joke that the cello is my favorite instrument because you can it's like perfectly sized that you can cuddle it. Um so I'm really excited to hear a fuck ton of uh cello at a show, and it'd be super gay.

[59:44] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh wow, my partner played the cello.

[59:46] Miss Hazel Jade: Oh amazing. She'll be very excited.

[59:49] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yay! You don't even have to change the title.

[59:52] Miss Hazel Jade: I will keep it. It gives it everything you need.

[59:56] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Exactly. The audience will come.

[1:00:00] Miss Hazel Jade: So you have the the Lesbian Cello Musical coming up. Are there other pieces you want to talk about? And I know you're also like doing some TV and film.

[1:00:06] Miss Hazel Jade: Absolutely. Uh so Shish and I are doing that. We're doing uh Rain, which is a um adaptation of Christopher Marlowe's Edward II, um, which is kind of about um Edward II uh who picks up after his father passes away. He kind of reigns over the kingdom and um he brings his uh previously exiled lover Gio, um who's a trans guy, uh back to Rain with him and he kind of kicks his queen to the side, which of course pisses me off. Um and then she has them both beheaded, which I'm obsessed with. I'm thinking obsessed with that. Um so that there's that show. Um, like I said, we're revisiting Neverland. Um so we're adapting a very new um version of Peter Pan that is totally not centered on all of the tropes that are in the show.

Um the terrible tropes that I grew up on, like Tiger Lily and the fucking crocodile. Um I am developing that with uh Shish is writing the book, Jen Right Jen White, um a composer in London is writing the score, and I'm developing it with Iris Mina's, which I'm obsessed with because Z is Z has so many ideas. They're also going to be our pan, so I'm excited for that. To have a non-binary Peter Pan, which when you look at the original text, they quite literally are non-binary because they hate all men. And I think Tinkerbell's a like a massive lesbian because she hates Wendy.

[1:01:45] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Is that like a like a love-hate relationship?

[1:01:48] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah, it's like, no, go away. But I'm excited.

[1:01:53] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh, that's great.

[1:01:54] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah, we'll be here for that too. Um, so I'm doing that. I'm doing uh some TV stuff. Um I wrote a pilot in the pandemic when I said that I wouldn't come back to theater, and uh we're talking to some studios about that. Iris and I were actually writing another pilot together, and we're gonna do an animation piece for kids, which I hate kids, but I'm excited to write that piece.

[1:02:18] Miss Hazel Jade: Um absolutely despise kids. Uh and all those kids. Uh so many kids in that fucking organization that I I yeah, it taught me to hate kids. But also like kids have really smart mouths and they think they know everything, but they do and they don't at the same time. Um, so what's that? Uh but I'm I'm quite excited um to do that. And uh I've got a film in development, and then a few other shows. Um, we're adapting a uh Claudette Colvin musical, um, which I'm excited about. Claudette was the literally the first, or I shall I say the youngest um black girl to refuse to get off the bus right before Rosa Parks. And when she wasn't taken seriously by MLK and the movement, um Rosa Parks decided that she would sit on the bus and and refuse to get up um in place of Claudette, but Claudette was the uh six-year-old girl who refused to get off the bus.

So I'm I'm excited about that piece. It's it feels dark, but it's gonna be super joyous. It's got a lot of jazz in it, and I'm I'm excited. And it's written by country like black country artists, which you almost never see.

[1:03:36] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh incredible. So many projects, and they all sound amazing.

[1:03:40] Miss Hazel Jade: They're all projects that I I like I said, I've become obsessed with um uh regrettably I'm doing some revivals. Uh or shall I say I'm doing a revival. I I refuse to do any more than that, but um I can't really reveal what it is, but it it's gonna be exciting. You might see it on Broadway in the next two to three years. Um, but it it it's a stupid show, a very great adaptation of it.

[1:04:05] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Well, that kind of like leads up perfectly with our next section, which is queering the canon. Now that we clearly know your son revival. This question is a little tricky.

[1:04:17] Miss Hazel Jade: No ask the way.

[1:04:19] Harrow Sansom Thesis: So the question is what queer version of an existing musical would you like to work on? So a queer adaptation of a musical. You can choose to say no because of your stance on revivals, but it's up to you.

[1:04:33] Miss Hazel Jade: Absolutely. If I could queer any show, there's so many shows that like are inherently gay. Um it would probably I I would want to look at Once on the Silent again because uh T Moon is a raging lesbian and she just doesn't know it yet. And Daniel is a dumb boy. I think if we do away with him and make him a woman, it it might hone in a lot better.

[1:05:00] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh I love that.

[1:05:01] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah. Um so that that would probably be the show. There's so many others, but uh that's the one I I'm obsessed with. It makes me feel better about her sacrificing herself at the end.

[1:05:10] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Boy.

[1:05:11] Miss Hazel Jade: Exactly. Like sacrificing like this dumb white passing guy.

[1:05:15] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah and not a woman that you're obsessed with.

[1:05:18] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah, again and then. And then our next section is our our queer culture rec. So outside of theater, what what's your like queer culture indulgence? Could be like books or movies or events.

[1:05:27] Miss Hazel Jade: Uh for me it it's a lot of uh TV. I I have started to look at The L Word, uh Shish has been begging me for many, many months. Um so I've gotten into that.

[1:05:43] Miss Hazel Jade: Um and I'm sorry.

[1:05:45] Harrow Sansom Thesis: No, it's it's you know, it's there.

[1:05:49] Miss Hazel Jade: It's it's there. Um but I oh we know. I I I'm I've started to watch that. Um I've also watched regrettably again, uh Gossip Girl on HBO Max.

[1:06:00] Miss Hazel Jade: Um but it it it's it's there. I can't stop watching it. It's so bad and good.

[1:06:07] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Are you talking the the new the reboot of it at the end of uh the the I think it was their midseason finale? Um you kind of get to see this polyamorous couple making out at the very end, and it's so beautiful to see polyamory done wrong but also done very right at the same time.

[1:06:30] Miss Hazel Jade: Um it it excites me. A friend of mine is in it, um, which I almost try to stay away from friend stuff, but I I I'm obsessed with that. And then uh Ridley Jones, which is a a kids' show, uh an animation, and I like I said I hate kids. Um, but it's on Netflix.

[1:06:49] Miss Hazel Jade: Uh it's about uh um girl, I think, yeah, a young girl who um kind of wants to save the museum that her family owns and has worked in for so many years, and uh it's got a non-binary character in it, and I'm obsessed with seeing that. So that's that's what I'm into right now. Um there's a lot more out there. I just don't know if I have the attention span for it, and then sometimes I watch stuff and I feel that I'm too old.

[1:07:19] Miss Hazel Jade: Um, but I I'm waiting for the day that we get another Sherry Jones TV show to watch.

[1:07:26] Harrow Sansom Thesis: That was a good combo of like trash and also like good recommendations too.

[1:07:31] Miss Hazel Jade: It's a lot of tr it's a lot of trash. Um but it's like that trash that you can't it's like sometimes we're begging for queer art that we have to accept the trash that comes.

[1:07:41] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Yeah.

[1:07:42] Miss Hazel Jade: And we might not reveal that we're kind of obsessed with that trash. I enjoy it.

[1:07:46] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Right. And our next section we call Queer Gives. And so this is where we shout out an organization, a mutual aid fund, maybe a person, um, someone you'd like us to direct our listeners' attention to.

[1:08:02] Miss Hazel Jade: Of course. Um so if you have something in mind, uh you could shout it out now. If if you don't have one off the top of your head, we can always add it later.

[1:08:10] Miss Hazel Jade: I do. I uh for me, I really, really, really endorse the Trevor Project. Um, I remember many years ago, right before I got ready to come out as bisexual, I there was this riverbed by my house, which actually the TV show that we're pitching, um, explores that riverbed. Uh, but it was uh a really shallow riverbed that um like there was a bridge overlooking it, and every now and then when I was feeling very stuck in presenting a straight, um, I would go to the bridge and kind of look over. And uh there was one night that I I was feeling very um depressed, and I thought it might be a good day uh a good time to jump, and I ended up calling the Trevor Project, and they nearly saved my life. So I always say give to the Trevor Project when you can because they're doing some great work for so many people.

[1:09:11] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh yeah, thank you for sharing the Trevor Project is I love them. Incredible.

[1:09:17] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah. And also I I although I I don't know yet, I haven't seen it, but I think I'm gonna endorse the the Trevor musical that's coming, but also why there's so many pieces like that.

[1:09:33] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Interesting.

[1:09:33] Miss Hazel Jade: Uh and then finally, how can our listeners follow you and your work?

[1:09:37] Miss Hazel Jade: Absolutely. You can follow me on Instagram, Twitter, don't follow me on Twitter because it's very uh like angry political. Um, but you can follow me on Instagram at uh Miss Hazel Jade. Um you can always go to The Regulars site and subscribe and you'll get information and videos.

[1:09:55] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh, and we will keep our listeners up to you on everything that's happening with The Regulars do not worry.

[1:10:01] Miss Hazel Jade: Yeah.

[1:10:03] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Oh, thank you so much for being here with us today.

[1:10:05] Miss Hazel Jade: Of course.

[1:10:08] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Likewise. We have like three follow-up conversations. I can't wait.

[1:10:15] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Thank you again, Miss Hazel. This is great.

[1:10:16] Miss Hazel Jade: Of course. Thank you.

[1:10:20] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Thanks for listening. If you like, please follow, rate, and review us, and share us with your friends. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at Thesis on Joan.

[1:10:28] Harrow Sansom Thesis: We'd love to hear your queer culture vects and ideas for queering the canon. Send us an email at thesisonjoan at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at 845-445-9251.

[1:10:40] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Come back for more interviews, fun, queer content, recommendations, and discussions on current theater. Until next time, keep it queer.

[1:10:48] Miss Hazel Jade: Not that it'd be that hard for y'all to do.

[1:10:58] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Well, you wrote it for our last episode.

[1:11:01] Miss Hazel Jade: I didn't mean it like that.

[1:11:04] Harrow Sansom Thesis: Cut that out.

[1:11:07] Miss Hazel Jade: I love my own questions.