This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jennifer Apple: Hello.

[0:01] Welcome to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast.

[0:04] I'm your host, Jennifer Apple, a multi-hyphenate actor, educator, acting coach, writer, dog mom, and founder of this vibrant community that champions artists as they carve out their own unique paths in this wild industry.

[0:17] Whether you're just starting out in the thick of it or seeking a bit of artistic fuel to expand your toolbox, you're in the right place.

[0:24] In this space, we'll have honest conversations, share actionable strategies, tips, and resources, and delve into the messy yet beautiful journey of living a sustainable creative life.

[0:34] We unmask the reality of life as an artist, from navigating career highs and lows to nurturing your full human well-being.

[0:42] I chat with women and non-binary guests who share their personal stories, helpful learnings, and hearts to help you unlock your artistic potential, expand your knowledge, and show up fully and fearlessly in your artistry and daily life.

[0:55] Before we dive into this week's conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode.

[1:01] If today's chat resonates with you, please leave us a review.

[1:04] It helps us reach even more incredible artists just like you.

[1:07] And hey, feel free to spread the love.

[1:09] Share this podcast with a friend or post it on your socials, making sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can chat with you there.

[1:18] All right, grab a cup of something cozy, settle in, and let's get to it.

[1:22] How can performers turn the audition process into a collaborative partnership?

[1:27] In our first episode of our casting director mini-series, I sit down with casting director Sujotta Pace to pull back the curtain on the casting process and reframe how actors see the people on the other side of the table.

[1:38] As a former actor herself, Sujotta shares how she collaborates with directors and creative teams to clarify vision, why preparation and bold choices matter more than perfection, and how to book the room, even if you don't book the role.

[1:52] She offers tips for self-tapes, reaching out when a project aligns with your strengths, using your emotions to bring truth to your work, and demystifying the many factors that go into casting decisions.

[2:02] Together, we reframe an audition as an invitation.

[2:05] Unpack casting directors as the actor's advocate and give tips for ways to enter the field of casting.

[2:11] This conversation is a powerful reminder that casting is more about partnership, collaboration, and the shared goal of bringing great stories to life.

[2:20] Enjoy.

[2:23] Sujotta Pace: Oh my god, look at the alliteration.

[2:24] Didn't mean to do it.

[2:25] Anyway, welcome.

[2:26] Jennifer Apple: Oh, well, thank you.

[2:27] For anybody who does not know you, who are you today?

[2:31] Sujotta Pace: Today, I am Sujotta.

[2:35] Um, I am a daughter.

[2:37] I came to visit my mom in Georgia.

[2:40] Um, I am a person at peace, filled with joy, and I got to come see my dog.

[2:48] So I'm happy.

[2:50] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, the priorities.

[2:52] Sujotta Pace: Yeah.

[2:52] Real priorities right now.

[2:53] You might know.

[2:54] That's it.

[2:54] Jennifer Apple: I love it.

[2:55] Sujotta Pace: I love it.

[2:56] Your energy is already like super contagious in the non-scientific way.

[3:02] And I just, it's even like through a screen, and it's really palpable and the yellow is vibrant and it's just it's all working.

[3:09] Um, professionally, may I throw us into the mix and talk about that journey for you?

[3:14] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, yeah, let's go.

[3:16] Jennifer Apple: So, we love an origin story.

[3:19] You're currently in the casting arena, but I know that's not where you started.

[3:24] And I'm curious how the progression came to be and why and how you're feeling in it.

[3:30] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[3:33] So I have my BFA and my MFA.

[3:36] I started off as an actor.

[3:39] I um moved to New York um in 2015 to pursue my acting.

[3:47] And I had three goals that year.

[3:52] To become equity, to lose weight, and to move to Harlow.

[3:56] And I did all three in it once you did.

[4:00] My top three goals.

[4:04] And so I started, you know, I became equity, and I also jumped into stage management.

[4:13] So I did that.

[4:15] And then around 2018, I started, I don't know if it was like I lost my motivation or it was something, but the drive to be an actor wasn't there anymore for me.

[4:32] I knew I still wanted to be in the arts.

[4:36] But I just didn't know.

[4:38] So I left in 2018 and said I was never coming back.

[4:42] Wow.

[4:43] Sujotta Pace: And then I ended up applying to Actors' Theater of Louisville, and they had an apprenticeship program, which they don't have anymore.

[4:52] Um, but they build a company that mirrors the organization.

[4:58] So you had your, you know, your uh artistic producer, you had the directors that came through, your stage management, lights, sounds, scenic.

[5:07] So they built a company to mirror that.

[5:09] So I was producing and casting, and then you had like directors and stage managers and lights and sounds, and 20 actors to build this company, and they taught us how to, you know, run an organization, basically.

[5:23] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[5:23] Sujotta Pace: And so I know two weeks into it, I was like, this is it.

[5:30] Yeah.

[5:30] This is what I want to do.

[5:32] Jennifer Apple: Um, did you know when you were applying to this?

[5:34] Like, how did you know that uh initially even to put yourself in that lane?

[5:37] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[5:38] So I've always had an interest in casting, but I didn't know how to get in casting because in school they don't teach you about cast uh casting, like you have acting and lights and sound and stage management, but you don't have casting.

[5:50] Right.

[5:50] And so I know I knew that in some in some cases you would do free internships, but I wasn't able to do those um or even find out how to do them.

[6:05] Yeah.

[6:05] Sujotta Pace: Um, so I think just through research, I found Actress Theater of Louisville, and there you could apply to three things.

[6:13] So I applied to um casting and producing and um to acting.

[6:19] So I only did two.

[6:21] Um, and at the time I did not know uh that I wouldn't be able to be accepted into the acting because I was equity and they at the same time they only accepted EMC and non-act.

[6:33] Um, but but yeah, they um it was so funny because I was like, I don't have any experience.

[6:43] And like five minutes before it was due, I submit it.

[6:48] Jennifer Apple: Yes, you did.

[6:49] Sujotta Pace: No, it just goes to show though, like the amount of times that it's just like there's something there that just like either the stars align or actually this is the thing, and people know that even though somebody has to take the leap of faith initially, it has to happen.

[7:02] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, yeah.

[7:02] Sujotta Pace: And I would tell people, just do it.

[7:04] You know, that taught me that like just submit.

[7:09] Audition.

[7:10] Just go audition.

[7:11] Um, I like to say a closed mouth doesn't get fit.

[7:15] You know, you have to do it.

[7:16] You have to be accountable and responsible for your own journey, you know.

[7:21] Um, and don't be afraid to do it.

[7:23] I know sometimes it may be scary, but just try.

[7:27] You know, the worst thing is someone says, like, no, we're not looking for that right now.

[7:32] Maybe next time I'll keep in touch.

[7:34] Because sometimes that next time or I'll keep in touch will come back around.

[7:39] Jennifer Apple: Yes, right.

[7:40] Sujotta Pace: So yeah, so I I went to actors' theater two weeks in, I said, Oh, this is what I want to do.

[7:46] Um, I just really love um helping other people get work.

[7:52] I don't know how that might sound, but I I like I always call myself a servant leader because I like to be of service to other people because when other people are happy, it makes me happy.

[8:04] Yeah.

[8:04] Jennifer Apple: When they get to reach their dreams.

[8:06] Sujotta Pace: That's what I mean.

[8:07] When they when they achieve their goals, when they um are going after something that they really love and and I can assist with that.

[8:15] Yeah, it's like it's amazing, you know, um for them for me to help them.

[8:21] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[8:21] I love it.

[8:22] I love hearing also your ethos around it too.

[8:24] I think sometimes in various circles, there's some misnomer, and I'm gonna label it as such that somehow like casting directors aren't actors advocates.

[8:34] And for me, that like breaks my heart in all the ways, just because I mean, yes, I have like friends who are or I've built relationships over the course of being an actor for however long, and to know them and their own journey personally, in the fact that like they are there as the advocate, hopefully, but mostly that is usually the reason.

[8:53] Like you believe that these this person walking in is gonna solve a problem, and you get to be the person who brings that person in to solve the problem and you believe the person to solve the problem like it's really um so it's it's such a misnomer when folks are like the casting director doesn't they don't they don't they're not actually working for me as the actor like it's like no it's of service to the piece and you could be that missing piece for it.

[9:16] Sujotta Pace: I love that you brought that up because um it's it's us trying to find the right people yeah so it it all starts with you know the director saying hey this is my vision and we're taking that vision and searching for the right people or the people that we feel maybe the right fit you know so we're asking several people to tape or watching these tapes we're asking people to come in and low key I'm like in the back when someone does good I'm like I react yes like I don't know I um I mean we love to feel that when it's happening and we like if we could see that and feel that that's just arrow I love that yes it's it's we want I really want everyone to feel empowered feel encouraged um we really do for like you said advocates for the actor yeah you know we we really want you to succeed we want you to get the part you know all we ask is that you come prepared and it's so many reasons why people don't get the part you know it's like we're creating an ensemble and we're trying to create this puzzle piece, put these puzzles, you know, put the puzzle together, and it may just be pairing, you know, it's just like pairing it.

[10:44] Maybe it's a couple, maybe it's a family, maybe someone just came in with a certain delivery that was more in alignment with what the director was looking for.

[10:56] So many reasons.

[10:57] And I know that there are people that come in that don't get it, but it's just like for us, it's like I want to know that person.

[11:05] Like I'm always gonna know that person, I'm always going to bring them in because they came prepared, they made bold choices, and they were just amazing.

[11:14] And although you didn't, it's like booking the room, like yes, you would have it all the time.

[11:19] Yep.

[11:20] Sujotta Pace: Like I already know you want the part, but you need to book the room because once you get on our radar, the director's radar, the playwrights radar, producers' radar, it's like, hey, have we thought about X, Y, and Z?

[11:33] Like I'm working on a um on a piece, and a producer was like, Hey, what about such and such?

[11:40] And but because I knew she would have she would fit, yeah.

[11:44] I had already checked a veils and interests and all of those things, and unfortunately, she wasn't, you know, available, but it's like, you know, once you come in and you book the room, people are always gonna remember you.

[11:58] And when they go to different teams, different casting folks, um, that's one thing that we ask.

[12:04] We say, Hey, is there anyone before I start creating these lists before I start asking people to take, is there anyone that you want me to check a veil and or interest, or do you need to see, you know, need them to come in person or whatever the questions may be to you know get more information?

[12:25] Sujotta Pace: But it's just it's like I think we are really big advocates, yeah, or um for the actor. And sometimes, yeah, it makes me sad that you know, actors don't feel that way. Um, and I would love to see how we can, you know, I don't know, like support one another more. Well, like to figure it out. Like, is it is it we create a panel, yeah, and we like casting folks and actors and have a discussion, and so they can get a little bit more information of like why certain decisions are made or I mean, arguably that's like why I do these conversations, you know, in some ways, like in the little minuscule way of like individual conversations with various casting folks to see and hear the different philosophies, the way in which people, you know, work and also the way in which they think and engage and to get the energy of a casting person that arguably we don't necessarily get that face, you know, face-to-face recognition or conversation with unless we're in either like an EPA setting when we happen to drop in or we get called in for it.

And more often than not, it is a self-tape and we're not even actually even engaging directly what you know face to face with a person. So for me in my own little corner of the world, this is like the hope of beginning to do that. But I do think that that there is an if anybody is listening and they have this idea of a symposium of like a a version of a speed dating and or like a panel and or an interaction where we all can kind of level play and recognize that we are all freelancing human beings who are all hustling for the next thing and are all trying to collaborate to create a larger, you know, uh piece. Um, for me, that's you know, at least that's why you're in the space at the moment, is that I can begin to like share that to the masses and be like, this is this is at least where Sujada's coming from, you know.

[14:18] Jennifer Apple: Hi actor friends, talking to you. If finding the perfect monologue has you feeling stuck, I've got just the thing. I put together a free monologue selection toolkit just for you. It's packed with resources, free and paid options, plus tips for choosing, editing, and customizing pieces to showcase you. Head over to jenniferapple.net slash freebie and stop avoiding the auditions that ask for a monologue or waiting for the perfect piece to simply fall into your lap. Dive into this free toolkit that I set up just for you that'll set you up to feel agency over your process and artistry. That's jenniferapple.net slash freebie and get started on finding your next go-to monologue. I'm curious for you, with you know, you've talked a little bit now then about like your ethos around it and how you've come to it, which I think is super awesome and it's so cool to know that it inspires you and you're like, this is the thing.

Um, as far as like your day-to-day now, then obviously, like given you know, the ins and outs of having different shows that you know are running and then there's the replacements versus the new show that you have to fully cast from the ground up versus the you trying to get new work and putting that on the roster. Like, how does your actual job function before we maybe veer off into like the actor land of it?

[15:35] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, yeah. So it's basically um, so if I'm starting from a fresh slate, it's um, you know, having a conversation with the director, with the playwright if it's a new work, um, and getting more understanding of the needs, their vision, um, and then you know, creating lists of people that we think are right for each role, um, reaching out to agents and managers, postings, doing EPAs, ECCs of, you know, a musical, um, and just starting like that process of building and then like tapes and in-person auditions. And I always encourage, um, I always tell everyone this. So I know when it comes to me, um, if if you see something, right? If you see a posting, um, I encourage you to, you can reach out to me and say, like, hey, I see that you're on this casting team.

Um, I really um am filling this certain role, this certain play, this certain musical, and I would love to audition. And so you you may be asked to tape, and you may not be asked to tape, and only you may not is because I already know the vision of the of the director of the play and such. And you may just not be a good fit for what they what they what their journey is with the play. Um, for replacements, it's kind of like the same thing. It's like reaching out to ages, agents, managers, actors, creating lists, um, and having auditions. The only thing um I think for a uh new play or new musical, it's you get to bring anybody in everybody because you're still trying you're discovering. You know, yes, I know the vision, yes, I know the journey, but I'm like, dang.

But what about this person? What about this person? And what about like we could do what about a lot more, I think, than replacement, because you're just, you know, you're replacing a role, you know. You you do you are bringing your own little flavor to it, but it's already built around a thing. So basically, for a replacement, we're seeing, you know, what can fall in line with what was there previously.

[18:14] Jennifer Apple: Would you say that the majority of your day-to-day is like behind a computer going through breakdowns, seeing like clicking through stuff and or like emailing reps and being like who's available or not? Or is it more like watching? I mean, I or like is it, you know, you you designate a certain day for I have X amount of tapes that I have to watch, and now this is my watching day, or do you like break up your day, or is it like okay, cool, this morning I'm going to an EPA? Like, how are you like what is your time?

[18:40] Sujotta Pace: I wish I could be that organized. You're doing great. You're doing great. No, I I it really just depends. It's like if I'm working on three shows, and of course, I have to say, okay, where are they in in this moment, you know? Um, so my days, yes, mostly in front of a computer, whether it be watching tapes, emailing reps, um on Instagram, on TikTok looking for um uh people and not just because I know people are gonna come for me with this watching Instagram. It might, they might, but I mean, but I mean like I can look for you on TikTok. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And it's not just the TikTok stars. The reason why we use TikTok and Instagram is because I may have seen you in a play. And I'm just trying to find more about you, like find out more about you.

So when I say TikTok and Instagram, it's for like research. You know, we do a lot of research on YouTube, um, websites. I encourage everyone to get a website. If you can't afford a website, that's where the TikTok and Instagram comes in because you could put sorry information where I can reach out to you. Also looking for readers, you know, so being a being accessible, right? So but yeah, I'm um in front of the computer most of the time. I carry my laptop everywhere with me. Um watching tapes, yeah, um, just uh like doing it doing the thing, reading plays, you know. Um, and and if I'm not in front of the computer, I'm in our auditions, yeah. My my um some of my casting friends make fun of me because they're like, you're in you're in session more than anybody. Like every time I call you, you're in session.

[20:29] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. Do you like that for you? Like, are you like for between I guess we can dive into the tapes of it and the in-person of it all? And there's many feelings, I'd say around everybody feeling one way or the other for all of it. What do you enjoy most about being in person? What do you enjoy most about being on like watching things over tape? Uh and what maybe is like a harder element for both?

[20:52] Sujotta Pace: Yeah. Um, I like tapes because I'm introduced to more people. So now that tapes have become um a bigger thing, I get to see people that I probably wouldn't have seen like in different countries or in the West Coast because sometimes um with auditioning, it was like, oh, always, you know, like in New York or if it was regional, always in that area. So you're just introduced to so many people by tapes. Um and that's also like with the social media too, you know, you just introduced to so many people, so many people's talent. Um in person, I don't know. I'm just like, I'm I'm a people person. Yeah. I know like in my office, they like, you know, it's like a they make fun of me because I love an ECC or EPA.

You know, I love um to go. I'm always volunteering. Like, although yeah. I love, I don't know. I just love to um meet people and I love to see them in person. And I think for me is because I came from Actors Theater of Louisville, um, you know, that was uh a different set of people. And then so when I came to New York, it's me learning another set of people. So for me, it's always helpful if I go to shows, if I go to readings, if I go to EPAs and C ECCs because or just in per, you know, appointment auditions, because I'm um it helps me advocate for you better. Because if I know you and I know your talent, or I'm able to have a conversation with you, then it's like, oh yeah, this person, X, Y, and Z and A B and C and one, two, and three.

You know, being able to um have that conversation with the creatives to say, like, oh yes, this person can bring this, or I saw this person do this other thing. Right. Did they bring you, know, dimension, you know, levels, yeah, um, and stuff like that. So yeah, yeah, I love to, and we could do that with tapes too, you know, but it's something about like um an energy. It's an energy exchange in real time. I'm I'm a really big energy person. Yeah. So um and you can see I I like to, I don't think people are aware and bring me in, but but how you show up in the room, right? Like, yes, you have your talent, but um how do you show up as Jennifer in the room? Like, yes, you probably had a bad day.

And I and I think I'm a I um give grace a lot because something could have happened, yeah before you walked in this room. So I also allow that to be a part of the conversation to say, oh, I've seen them. I think you know, something might have happened today, um, to encourage a callback, you know, because you could could have done very well in the piece, but you as and just using you, yeah, Jennifer, you just probably, you know, having an off day, you know.

[24:15] Sujotta Pace: Um, so I I am aware of that, and I like that always is like, okay, hmm, this is uh not them, you know. Will you in real time address that or will you just be like, okay, I'm offering grace and just seeing that this feels a little off if you know a person, and then you can kind of put that let like that layer on yourself. No, I don't do it because I don't want to call anybody out in the room in front of anybody because something may not be wrong, but I'm a very playful person.

[24:47] Sujotta Pace: So if I'm walking you out of the room or I happen to see you, yeah, I may say like, hey, you know, um X, Y, and Z, you know, everything okay.

[25:00] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, you know, um, yeah, because and I do care, you know, because I feel like we are humans too.

[25:06] Sujotta Pace: Yeah.

[25:07] Sujotta Pace: And then we are actors, we are humans, and then we are casting folks.

[25:11] Sujotta Pace: We are human and then we are directors, and so on and so on and so on.

[25:15] Sujotta Pace: And sometimes we have to remember that.

[25:18] Sujotta Pace: Yeah.

[25:18] Sujotta Pace: All of us have to remember that.

[25:20] Sujotta Pace: Yes, right.

[25:21] Sujotta Pace: And I understand, and I understand we have to complete this project, but I do care if something's going on, you know, I'm not like I don't know, maybe that's the nurturing part of me.

[25:21] Sujotta Pace: I don't know.

[25:21] Sujotta Pace: Um, but I do care if something is like affecting somebody, yeah.

[25:47] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, you know, like that matters to me.

[25:50] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, um, um, but also on top of that, on the other end, it's how you show up in the room because people ask for references or how you show up um uh on a certain project, you know.

[25:50] Sujotta Pace: People ask for references of folks to see if you're a good ensemble member, if you're gonna be good in certain spaces, you know.

[26:15] Sujotta Pace: So it's just how we carry yourself.

[26:18] Sujotta Pace: I'm not saying like you don't I say be you, yeah, you know what I'm saying, but we still want to be able, you know, just like in a basic family, we all just want to get along, yeah, you know, so you have to build it like a family because you're gonna be with those people for sure for eight, twelve weeks and months, you know.

[26:18] Sujotta Pace: Correct, I feel like there is this idea that many folks um have and I feel like I try to combat this often when I'm coaching folks specifically around this idea of trying to be interesting and forgetting that like what makes them quote unquote interesting is the fact that they are themselves.

[26:18] Sujotta Pace: Like no one is them.

[26:18] Sujotta Pace: How and it's it's such a non-specific question because it's so abstract because we're just talking about like a human as you were just saying how do you encourage folks certainly if there's noise or if there is life stuff or if you know they really really want a part or if you know how do you encourage folks to really find hone in on embrace and bring out the version of them that is them the the thing that is like the piece of them that is them.

[26:18] Sujotta Pace: Oh yeah, I mean it's just really being yourself, you know, using if you're nervous using that nervousness for the piece.

[27:41] Sujotta Pace: How can you use how you're feeling right now to stay in truth when you're delivering the monologue or with the scene, you know, I would say you always sprinkle a little bit of yourself.

[27:55] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, like yes you have this character yes you have formed made all these choices but you still have to be present present and you have to sprinkle yourself into that, you know, because um I think any role it is we relate to things in some type of way so whether it be like oh I did this a month ago or oh my friend is going through this how can you feel that what is the backstory um of you that you can use for that piece.

[27:55] Sujotta Pace: What I'm hearing and reflecting back is just making sure that you are looking inward and being truthful with yourself first and acknowledging where you are and what your life given circumstances are so that you can then show up honestly and authentically to the given circumstances of the piece.

[28:49] Sujotta Pace: And it's just being prepared I think that's my biggest thing like if a person just made the choices you know the choices that are in alignment with the piece and you made bold choices you made smart choices you made um funny choices you know whatever those choices are and you just came prepared I think that's what woos me more than anything that like you may walk out the room and it's like oh they're not right for this but I know they might be right for what I have coming up.

[29:30] Jennifer Apple: Right.

[29:30] Sujotta Pace: Or they might be right for something else because we have like session sheets where we take notes right and it's like oh oh I'm a good heart person.

[29:40] Sujotta Pace: Like I'm writing hearts and noodles I love.

[29:44] Sujotta Pace: And I'll be like, yes.

[29:47] Sujotta Pace: Look, I'm y'all biggest cheerleader.

[29:51] Sujotta Pace: I'll tell you.

[29:52] Sujotta Pace: I'm obsessed.

[29:53] Sujotta Pace: I'm obsessed.

[29:54] Sujotta Pace: I'm just sorry.

[29:55] Sujotta Pace: Sometimes I have to catch myself and I'm like, oh, I got into it a little bit too much.

[30:00] Sujotta Pace: But um, but no, it's it's um just your truth, being prepared, and just booking the room.

[30:08] Jennifer Apple: Have you been using the same monologue for years?

[30:11] Jennifer Apple: Are you gearing up to apply for BA, BFA, or MFA programs and need pieces for that process?

[30:16] Jennifer Apple: Or maybe you just have no idea where to even start with monologue hunting?

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[30:29] Jennifer Apple: So many artists pick pieces based on external labels like type or for roles rather than finding material that represents who they truly are.

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[30:39] Jennifer Apple: We'll meet virtually and you'll share all about who you are, your passions, values, beliefs, and everything in between.

[30:45] Jennifer Apple: Don't worry, I will help guide you through this process.

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[30:59] Jennifer Apple: So if you want to feel empowered about the monologues you bring into rooms and use for auditions, I would love to help you find them.

[31:06] Jennifer Apple: And because you're a listener of the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast, I'm offering an exclusive rate.

[31:11] Jennifer Apple: Head to EmpoweredArtistCollective.com slash podcast promo to register and claim the special offer.

[31:17] Jennifer Apple: That's empoweredartistscollective.com slash podcast promo.

[31:21] Jennifer Apple: I cannot wait to help you find monologues you absolutely adore.

[31:26] Jennifer Apple: Let's talk about the self-tapes of it all, because so much of what we do lives in self-tape land.

[31:31] Jennifer Apple: Um, I know this is like a touchy question, but I just I have to ask it because I feel like I will get flack if I don't.

[31:38] Jennifer Apple: What about the phrasing or the notion that casting directors don't watch your tapes or only watch four seconds of it and then they turn it off?

[31:45] Sujotta Pace: Oh, you're not gonna get me on this one.

[31:47] Jennifer Apple: I'm just I'm not gonna get you.

[31:48] Jennifer Apple: No, I'm not trying to get you, I'm trying to like set the record straight.

[31:50] Jennifer Apple: I'm trying to like deliver so that we can like realign the shit.

[31:55] Sujotta Pace: No, the reason why I say that's so funny because somebody else asked me that question.

[32:00] Sujotta Pace: I would say with tapes.

[32:02] Sujotta Pace: So, like, let's use a musical, right?

[32:06] Sujotta Pace: Um, you really have to see, look at all of the tape, all of the tape, right?

[32:13] Sujotta Pace: And the reason being is that I need to know what I'm looking for, you know, because I may get a 500 tapes, right?

[32:27] Sujotta Pace: And I'm not gonna watch all five in one setting, like you said earlier.

[32:32] Sujotta Pace: I have to organize myself and say, like, hey, I might watch 50, 100 this day, this in the morning, and then then in the afternoon and stuff.

[32:40] Sujotta Pace: So I think in the beginning of a process, and I it's a new process.

[32:47] Sujotta Pace: I'm looking at all the tapes because um, because I need to know, like, oh, can you hit that note?

[32:58] Sujotta Pace: Can you deliver this line?

[33:01] Sujotta Pace: Can you um uh whatever, you know, whatever that I'm like, oh yeah, they got this, or they don't have this, you know.

[33:11] Sujotta Pace: And then I have to watch another tape and another tape and another tape.

[33:15] Sujotta Pace: So I will say it will get to a point where I automatically know what I'm looking for.

[33:22] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[33:23] Sujotta Pace: So I may say, like, hey, I'm gonna watch this much of the beginning, and then this much of the middle, and then this much of the end.

[33:33] Sujotta Pace: I'm watching your whole tape.

[33:35] Jennifer Apple: Right.

[33:35] Sujotta Pace: But I'm seeing there are key points that you I know that you need to hit, or this character needs to hit where I'm watching these points.

[33:46] Sujotta Pace: And then sometimes it's like I'll write myself a note, oh well, go back to this person.

[33:51] Sujotta Pace: And then I might go back and watch the whole tape.

[33:54] Sujotta Pace: Just because I'm like, oh, they have it or they don't have it, but they have this.

[33:59] Sujotta Pace: Let me watch a few more takes and then yeah, like come back.

[34:04] Sujotta Pace: And granted, there are different types of casting.

[34:08] Sujotta Pace: So you have theater, you have television and film, you have reality, you have commercial and all of these things.

[34:15] Sujotta Pace: And each casting director has their own system and their own process.

[34:20] Sujotta Pace: So for you knowing that like you have, say, in a musical situation that like by after you've, you know, like gone into the groove and identified for yourself, like, okay, these are the things.

[34:28] Jennifer Apple: As we as actors don't necessarily know specifically that these are the moments that have to be landed.

[34:34] Sujotta Pace: We're just like trying to, you know, give a full story.

[34:36] Sujotta Pace: Um, what are some of your recommendations in a self-tape space?

[34:41] Sujotta Pace: And I guess we can also just pull it out a little bit, you know, as this is something that now is expected of all of us actors to be able to like, you know, film light sounds, edit our situation.

[34:52] Sujotta Pace: Um, what have you found to be some of the most successful in addition to obviously understanding the like be prepared, bring yourself part of it?

[35:01] Sujotta Pace: What's a successful quote unquote uh self-tape?

[35:04] Sujotta Pace: It's the same thing of it like an in-person audition.

[35:07] Sujotta Pace: I don't think it's I don't want to say it's a right or a wrong, you know, certain things you want to have sound, you want to have all of those elements.

[35:16] Sujotta Pace: But I truly believe like you capture a person like the energy, like how are you throwing your energy through the uh camera with those those first couple of lines.

[35:31] Sujotta Pace: Yeah.

[35:32] Sujotta Pace: You know, um your delivery um just how you're going about it.

[35:38] Sujotta Pace: I don't know.

[35:38] Sujotta Pace: It's like self-tapes for me are just so tricky.

[35:41] Sujotta Pace: You know um it's just because you may be auditioning for one thing and it may not you may not pull it off very well but then I get another tape for something else and it's like oh wow I think it just really just comes down to the role.

[36:00] Sujotta Pace: Yeah in the choices you make.

[36:02] Sujotta Pace: Like for a musical you know you have to hit certain notes.

[36:05] Sujotta Pace: I could say that like you know you have to hit certain notes.

[36:10] Sujotta Pace: And I would say really follow the directions.

[36:12] Sujotta Pace: If they're saying like oh this person really needs to be a belter or does rifts or um does X, Y and Z really pay attention to that because I see a lot of the times that like we may put directions in there like that and people don't follow them.

[36:30] Sujotta Pace: So therefore because you don't follow them then you you don't, you know, it's like oh you follow the directions.

[36:39] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, you know and following directions is very is is key.

[36:43] Sujotta Pace: It's not because I just want you to follow the directions it's because that character needs to do a certain thing.

[36:50] Sujotta Pace: And in order for me to share your tape to the creatives, because this is something that they ask for, I need you to present that.

[36:59] Sujotta Pace: So then I can say, then there goes me advocating, like, okay, they did this thing.

[37:04] Sujotta Pace: Oh, yes, I know them because they did this, this, and this.

[37:08] Sujotta Pace: And it's what you have to help me help you.

[37:10] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[37:11] Sujotta Pace: You know, it's a is the type of thing. It's a lot of people there, a lot of singers and actors that I really love, and then they just don't hit that mark.

[37:19] Jennifer Apple: And it's like, well, I can't offer their tape.

[37:22] Sujotta Pace: Yeah. What happens? I mean, I guess I'll speak on behalf of myself, right? Where, like, let's say, you know, you get an audition and it's maybe like a new casting team, or even if it actually isn't, or it's been a hot second since the casting team has called you in for X, Y, and Z. Maybe it's they haven't had a show that you've been right for, or it's already been cast, or whatever the reasons are. You get this audition and you're like, cool. I'm really trying to book this metaphorical virtual room, but I'm trying to book this room. And then you send out your tape and it goes into the ether and you release and you accept and you hopefully move on and you pray and do whatever else you do with your practice.

[37:58] Sujotta Pace: How do you recommend for folks who are like, cool? I now haven't heard again from this casting office in X amount of months. And now I begin to think like, do they hate me? Did I totally mess this up? Do I, you know, will I ever work again? Whatever the spiral actors, you know, go through. What would be from your perspective? You know, I would imagine a lot of it is like the puzzle, or you know, like, are there ever what is the situation that like you would never call somebody back in, or they would be like bumped to the bottom of the recesses of your mind, or like why I guess do we do that? I mean, I'm not the like psychosis of why the actors like spiral because that's a whole other conversation, but like, how do we trust on our back end of things that like just because you haven't heard and you hear just now and then not again for a while that it isn't you.

[38:48] Jennifer Apple: So do you mean with that project or just hearing from?

[38:48] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, like that project specifically let's let's say you were like you know what I nailed this audition. I actually feel for the first time in my life I nailed this I made some bold choices I hit all my notes I worked really hard I did a lot of prep my lighting my sound my book everything was on point it's like my ideal audition and then crickets so that for both of like yes the role and also the office.

[39:13] Sujotta Pace: Yeah um I think for the role it's it goes back to what's needed or the conversations that have been um had with the creative team with the casting team um like thing and things change yeah you know um sometimes we may ask you to do a certain thing and um something in the back may change we may get more information about something um we may be placed on hold and it has nothing to do with the with the actors we may we may be being proactive and saying okay we know we have to do XY and Z so we're gonna get this done and then we may get some information to hold or we may um yeah just get information to hold.

[40:16] Sujotta Pace: I think that if you're always being asked, and then on the other end, if you're always being asked to take, it's like we see something and you I and I totally get it. And I totally get it. That it's like, well, book me. Like, I get it. I totally get it. I totally get it. Um, but it's so many factors. I'm telling you, being on the other side of the table, I'm just a lot of the times it's just like, oh man, you know, like it's our feelings get hurt, our, you know, we get disappointed because certain decisions, you know, um, um, because of certain things, certain decisions, or it could just be different factors. I I guess I just don't have a set answer because it's just like things happen.

[41:09] Sujotta Pace: And I know that's not like an answer people really want to hear, but it's like really things happen. It may, it may be that you know, yes, you killed the self-tape, but it's not what we're really looking for, yeah. Um, at the moment, so it's like, oh, maybe for something else, yeah, or it may be that you really didn't hit the note, or you really didn't deliver it a certain type of way. Um, it it could be all different types of fact factors again. Like, I'm not asking you questions that have real answers. I'm kind of just like airing what I know can tend to be common thoughts, feelings, and questions that people have, you know, and and it's tough because again, like being on the actor side of it myself when it's like cool, like this casting office hired me for really big gig, and they literally haven't called me in in years. What? And then you start to go down a spiral and you're like, actually, it stop it. It had look at what they're currently casting. Are you right for any of this? That's what I would want to say.

[42:17] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[42:18] Sujotta Pace: And it's like, no, you're actually not. Maybe they don't know that you are in theory. And then maybe that's up to you as the artist to be like, hey, FYI, like, I know you know me in this capacity. I would love to be considered for this. I know you don't know me in this way. Would you be open to seeing me in this new light? Um, but you know, I'm only bringing it up just because I know it's the thing that people think, but not necessarily because there's a real answer.

[42:41] Jennifer Apple: No, but no, to put to that point, it could be that. It could be strictly that of like, hey, has what is the person casting now?

[42:51] Sujotta Pace: Yeah.

[42:52] Jennifer Apple: Am I right for that stuff?

[42:54] Sujotta Pace: Yeah. And if not, I do encourage you to reach out and say, like, hey, or have your agent or manager reach out and say, like, hey, I would love to be considered for X, Y, and Z. Because for me personally, sometimes, you know, um, I may be creating the list, you know, and and I'm trying to think of everybody.

[43:14] Sujotta Pace: Right. And I'm trying to think think of everybody, and I'm sitting with this list for days, and I get an email, and I be like, Yeah, thank you for emailing me. Like, I'm not, I'm not gonna tell you, thank you, baby. I'm gonna say, thank you. But I'm just like, oh, I totally forgot about this person. And it could have been someone that's you know, that like I hadn't seen for a while, right? But really fits their role. So I it's like it's like a partnership, it's a collaboration, you know, and it's like a closed mouth doesn't get fit, you know. And I understand that we should know the actors, we shouldn't know everybody's talents, you know.

[43:51] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, but we're only human, just like everyone else. So we're like building these lists, we're making suggestions, we're calling people in, you know. Um, but it's like a partnership and a collaboration, it's us building lists, it's agents and managers pushing people, it's them submitting people to the breakdowns. It's also actors saying, like, hi, you know, like you don't know me, or you do know me, you came to see this, or it's actors inviting us to things and saying, like, hey, come see me. You know, I know you know me this way, but I would really love for you to see me like this. And and that's just suggestions, you know, we don't have like have to take them, but it's just like I'm uh for me, it's just like how can we collaborate more? Right. And maybe stop like, oh, they don't love me.

[44:42] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, and it's like, oh, on our end, it's like, oh, they hate us, you know, like not. Um, and I know it's not like that for everyone, like for casting, it's like we bring you in, and we're like your cheerleaders, right? And so it's like we are so happy when you do the thing, you know, and even when we watch tapes, it's like, oh, watch this tape with different people. So I might be on one project and they might not be. I'm like, oh, they're not really, you know, in alignment with this project, but I know someone that's doing something else, and hey, you need to see this person, right?

[45:24] Sujotta Pace: So yeah. Well, I mean, let's talk about that too for yourself, right? Like you work roundabout C12, you work like freelance, you I mean, you're you're kind of in a bunch of different pockets. How does it work differently when you are working for say an institution or a specific casting office versus yourself? Does it change, or is it just more like we now have more, you know, folks in the mix that we have to collaborate with?

[45:40] Sujotta Pace: Yeah no i think it's pretty much the same it's just like with an institution you have a season right and so the artistic team with the artistic producer comes up with a season and then connects with casting and saying like hey how can we cast this right and we do a lot of new works we do a lot of revivals so seeing how we can work with all the um you know all the people to achieve that and then with C12 we do a lot of um commercial work workshops readings off broadway um um regional and things like that so it's just like working with um other institutions so like let's say with C12 we may work with um ART and so we're just collaborating with them to see how we can help them with that show for their season and then for freelance um I think it's just really the same thing me working with creatives um I may co-cast so like for cats I co-cast uh cats with Victor Vasquez um so just me and him working together to see how we can uh cast the best people you know for all so I would just say that the only difference is um I'm not freelance with roundabout so I am uh an employee um and then uh freelance on the side so it's like like what an actor would do or director, yeah.

[47:17] Jennifer Apple: Do so can we talk about some of the work that you've been working on and have worked on? I mean, it if you really think about like the scope of your work, it's been so eclectic and awesome. It's like you have Anne Juliet, you have Operation Mincemeat, you have English, you have cats, you have home, right? Like you have like it's like a real breadth of pieces. I feel like there are some casting directors who, for better or for worse, whether they want this or not, they also get pigeonholed in like you do this so well. Let's stick you on, you know, the big boisterous commercial musical forever. And maybe they love it, or maybe they're like, actually, I don't really want to do this really like subtle play over here, but like no, I guess I'm niche down similarly to actors.

Like for you with this big breadth of um work, is that something that you've sought out? Has it kind of fallen in because of the various, you know, whether it's roundabout C12 or like, or is it like, hey, y'all, this is actually why you want to hire me because I can see visions in all sorts of ways. Like, what has that been for all of that?

[48:16] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, so just going back a little bit with roundabout and C12 casting. So, in that area, I'm an associate. So I'm a casting associate, and then for my own thing, I am a casting director, but I also freelance as an associate. So I think when it comes to roundabout, it's more of like I say, with I think we're really good about picking diverse pieces that speaks to the masses, like home and English, um, um, and then we have liberation in our uh black box. We had Covenant, um, I think in 2023 that I worked on with York, who went to ACT where where it was in my MFA. Oh, dope. I mean, York is old, York was like above me, and but we're in MFA. So shout out York. I love it. So you have that end, and then I think the same thing with like C12 casting. So my two supervisors have um uh their company within that, and then they choose certain things that aligned with what their strengths are or what they desire, right?

[49:30] Sujotta Pace: And then with me, it's like I think what fulfills me artistically, like, oh, I'm down for that. Oh yeah, I'm down for that. So like when Cats was presented to me, I was just like, oh yeah, that'll be dope. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like that would be very dope. And just I guess when projects come to me and reading the story, um, reading the story, reading um seeing who's attached, um I don't know. I just I've been um I guess lucky enough to work on a lot of pieces that really speak to me artistically and that I love and that I'm able to give you know people opportunities.

[50:13] Sujotta Pace: Yeah. Um opportunities for. So it's just crazy. My journey has been crazy. I'm just like, yeah. Just think about it right now. I'm just like, wow, like you've done a lot. You've done a lot. You've well, you know, no one. I don't know if I'm shooting myself in the foot or whatever, but I started in 2019. You better. When people when I say uh like what what do you desire? How do you know you wanted to do certain things? Or like even with acting and the actor, you know, um, like does it fuel you? Like, do you get up every morning and like you wanted to run those lines, you want to learn that monologue, you want to go to the auditions. It's like what fuels you and I feel that um even though I always say always get paid, but my my measure of thing is when I forget to turn in my invoice or I forget to say oh yeah I'm supposed to get paid on that or because it's like you're fulfilled yeah I'm fulfilled like yes the money matters and I need it to live and eat and sleep and all of those things but when you're just when you're doing the work and it's like oh yeah like this person and this person and X, Y, and Z and I feel like that's when you know like this is for me.

[51:32] Sujotta Pace: You know like yeah money is essential but it's like when you forget about it.

[51:39] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, it's like oh wow yeah yeah for folks then who are thinking in their own way whether it's like they're actually in undergrad and there isn't a specific you know casting director track or it's folks who have maybe decided similar to you that they went down say an actor or director track and they're like actually maybe I might want to pivot or you know folks having a calling into the arts generally and they're like I actually think it's directly into casting like what do you recommend folks to start out or to try to find their way into it if that is the thing that they are trying to actually enter into as a profession rather than the way in which we engage as actors just solely with you.

[52:17] Sujotta Pace: Yeah so a couple of things I would say and admin work so like in your if you can learn about stage management because that's one thing that I I wouldn't like when I created my casting producing resume I wouldn't add a stage management. But when I would have an interview that would come up and they would say oh you need to put that on your um resume because any admin work if you're um uh front desk somewhere because casting is a lot of paperwork it is a lot of um it is a creative because we're thinking about things piecing everything together but like paperwork especially with television and film I don't do too much of that but they um I know it's a lot of paperwork so that would work for that but I would also say reach out to casting folks whether it be you know other assistants associates or directors and just say like hey I have an interest can I shadow you or um can I help you do something or can you just chat with me I would just say like just reaching out to people and seeing if you just can have that conversation to say like hey I'm interested what was your journey what do you think this is what I what my background is yeah and maybe they can help navigate you because I know I'm really big on that like I'm just like oh you can come shadow you know like if you just want to sit in a room I'll I'm just strategic on like the creatives that are yeah like in the room to say like okay like I know they will help guide and they will like that fuels them as well so like my um one of my former um supervisors um now friends Emily Tarquin you know they picked me to be the producing and casting apprentice.

[54:19] Sujotta Pace: And um I love putting people in the room with them because they have the same motivation or the same underlining of like nurturing or you know, just saying, like, hey, I'm here. What? Yeah, you know, and having those conversations, like picking their brains and stuff like that.

[54:40] Jennifer Apple: So yeah.

[54:42] Sujotta Pace: Yeah. Thank you for that.

[54:44] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. I think you know, it's it's interesting because there again, there isn't the direct pipeline for it. And so, and that's arguably why have you know, folks in the same title of position come on to talk about the position so that people can see the way in which people enter and exit and recognize that in this ecosystem that we're in in this industry, there is no one right way, and there's certainly no one way generally for people to get to those points of um their career. And I I think it's important to highlight that, you know.

[55:13] Sujotta Pace: And I would, and I want to encourage because I am on the older side. Not gonna say my age, but I am on the older side. Older is relatives, older is relative. Um, but I will say that let's just say when I went to actors' theater of Louisville, I had big people's bills. Like I had like I had worked for the City of Atlanta government. I have had several, you know, other jobs. I um went to, you know, end up going to grad school later on, and never feel defeated.

[55:53] Sujotta Pace: Like, because you know, apprentice they, you know, apprenticeships, they gave us what they could. Like this was my journey. I would get up at two or three o'clock in the morning and go to FedEx.

[56:06] Jennifer Apple: Wow.

[56:06] Sujotta Pace: And work until like nine, rush back to my apartment, get dressed, and go to the theater from like 10 to like six or ten to five or something like that. And then I had another job at Cocheck.

[56:23] Sujotta Pace: And so you slapped one. You slept. But I had like I had my computer. So when I was doing coachek, I had my computer that I could also work. And it wasn't like every day, like FedEx in the theater was every day, but you know, KoCheck wasn't every day. And it was just, but I I was so excited about it. Like sometimes I would stay in the office, and the security guard I knew when that when that elevator came, I said, I'm coming. Like Nino making noise.

[57:02] Sujotta Pace: Sometimes I stay in the office until 11 and 12 here at roundabout, just like on the computer working, um, and stuff like that, or going home, staying up late at night. And it's I don't know, like casting really fuels me.

[57:18] Sujotta Pace: Um, fuels me, motivates me. Yeah. Um I'm really, I guess, in love with it. I'm with it. And um, and I just love to I don't know, it's like it makes me happy the casting, but like I said, it also makes me happy when people get yeah, their dreams, you know, and and I don't want anyone to feel like if I can leave you with anything, like I don't want you to feel that we we are not advocating, yeah, for actors.

[57:51] Sujotta Pace: Um, that we don't want you to get the job. Um, you just you know, I hope you just understand that it's like a lot of factors that sometimes aren't in our control or um or in our control, yeah, or or and it and it and the thing is just to be totally transparent and honest, you know, it's one role, yeah. It may be a cast of 10, but that's like one of 10, you know, and we're bringing the best people in, you know.

[58:27] Sujotta Pace: So if we're asking you to tape, it's because we love your work, correct? You know, you you made it, you just didn't hit the mark at that moment, but that doesn't mean yeah, you've got that audience, like you're not talented or whatever. Because if we keep on asking you, and that's the thing, if you keep like if your name like we're asking you to take, we're asking you to come in, is because we want you to book the role, yeah.

[58:55] Sujotta Pace: You know, we see something in you, and we're gonna continue to call on you. I know you can feel defeated, yeah, but I would say just keep like keep going.

[59:04] Sujotta Pace: I love it. We just gotta keep going for it. Because if like I said, if everyone's keep, you know, if if this office is calling you, if this call office is calling you, then like, see, I start rambling and my words start when I get excited.

[59:21] Sujotta Pace: Like I'm excited, I'm feeling like, oh, I'm excited. It's good, it's good. No, people don't know that they're appreciated. Like actors, like we appreciate you. We appreciate that like this office is telling you to take two songs and a monologue, and this office is asking you to tape three scenes, and this office and is all happening at one time and we totally understand and we want you to know that we truly appreciate you.

[59:52] Sujotta Pace: You're awesome. You're great. I love it. This is so thank you so much for just showing up with so much zest and clear, clear, clear love for what it is that you do. Like it's so so obvious. And I'm so grateful that you graced us with your presence, with your brilliance, with your knowledge here in this space.

[1:00:08] Jennifer Apple: For anybody who does want to reach out, um, hire you and or you know, sh ask the questions or want a shadow or whatever it is, what within your best boundaries is the best way for people to reach you.

[1:00:21] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, you can email me. Um Instagram's uh Instagram is just at Sujata at S U J O T T A. And then my email address is Sujata Sujata casting at gmail.com.

[1:00:38] Sujotta Pace: So S U J O T T A casting at gmail.com.

[1:00:42] Jennifer Apple: Thank you so much for being in the space.

[1:00:45] Sujotta Pace: Yeah, thank you.

[1:00:46] Jennifer Apple: That's it for today's episode. I hope you walk away with some fresh insights, feel inspired and a little more empowered to take the next step on your artistic journey. Remember, whether it's a small shift or a big breakthrough, every step forward counts. You've got this, and we're here cheering you on every step of the way.

[1:01:03] Jennifer Apple: If you found today's episode helpful, don't forget to hit subscribe so you'll never miss out on the discussions we have each week. And if something today really resonated with you, please leave us a review. It truly is one of the best ways to help other artists find our podcast and join in on the conversations. Plus, we feel the love too when you do.

[1:01:21] Jennifer Apple: And don't keep all this goodness to yourself. Share this episode with your people or post about it on social media. Be sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistsCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can see what's landing for you and keep the conversation going. As always, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. And thank you for being a part of this incredible community. Keep creating, keep thriving, stay empowered. I'm Jennifer Apple. Until next time.