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[0:00] Jennifer Apple: Hello! Welcome to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Apple, a multi-hyphenate actor, educator, acting coach, writer, dog mom, and founder of this vibrant community that champions artists as they carve out their own unique paths in this wild industry. Whether you're just starting out, in the thick of it, or seeking a bit of artistic fuel to expand your toolbox, you're in the right place. In this space, we'll have honest conversations, share actionable strategies, tips, and resources, and delve into the messy yet beautiful journey of living a sustainable, creative life. We unmask the reality of life as an artist, from navigating career highs and lows to nurturing your full human well-being.

I chat with women and non-binary guests who share their personal stories, helpful learnings, and hearts to help you unlock your artistic potential, expand your knowledge, and show up fully and fearlessly in your artistry and daily life. Before we dive into this week's conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. If today's chat resonates with you, please leave us a review. It helps us reach even more incredible artists just like you. And hey, feel free to spread the love. Share this podcast with a friend or post it on your socials, making sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can chat with you there. All right, grab a cup of something cozy, settle in, and let's get to it.

[1:22] Jennifer Apple: What does the ecosystem of a casting office and career look like? In this episode of our Casting Director mini-series, I chat with Casting Director and co-owner of the TRC Company, Claire Burke. Claire shares her journey from intern to co-owner, offering a glimpse into the intricate workings of a casting office. She emphasizes the need to balance artistic intuition with analytical skills for her job, the importance of reading the room during auditions for performers, and never underestimating a specific submission or attending an EPA. Together, we discuss maintaining a website to enhance visibility, embracing elements out of one's control, and insights for aspiring casting directors on breaking into the industry. Whether you're an actor seeking to better understand the role of a casting director or someone interested in becoming one, this episode sheds light on the ins and outs of the casting world. Enjoy. Claire Burke, welcome to the space.

[2:16] Claire Burke: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

[2:18] Jennifer Apple: I'm so pumped for you to be here. For anybody who does not know you, who are you today?

[2:25] Claire Burke: You know, today I am Summer Friday, Claire. It is Friday in mid-August. It is, I think, very warm outside, but I wouldn't know because I haven't set foot outside today. I'm just easing into my weekend here. That's who I am today. It's a good place to be.

[2:47] Jennifer Apple: I love the, like, we notice the environment outside our window, but we're not participating in it, but we can feel like we are. In New York, it's a luxury to even see the environment outside my window. And the Friday of it all, in the summertime, is like a different kind of quiet. I mean, it's a relative quiet, but when we know what it could be, I feel like that's a different vibe.

[3:11] Claire Burke: Mm-hmm. I love it.

[3:12] Jennifer Apple: Sure. For anybody who does not know what you do in this gorgeous industry, how do you find yourself in this career?

[3:18] Claire Burke: I am a casting director and one of the co-owners at the TRC Company, which is a casting office formerly known as Tara Rubin Casting. We're really the same company as Tara Rubin Casting. All the same people. We've just switched over ownership in the last few months. And prior to Tara Rubin Casting, there was a company called Johnson Lyft Casting, where Tara worked. So we kind of consider ourselves the next, just the next era of this very longstanding tradition of casting offices. We work on a whole lot of musical theater. We also do some plays. We do lots of regional plays and musicals. And we are starting to slash dipping our toes into some film and TV. And that's something I know we're all excited to learn about as we go through the next few years in the business. But I started at Tara's office in 2013 as an intern. I love it.

[4:26] Jennifer Apple: And so most of my casting career has been with her and just coming up through this office. Well, first of all, congratulations on the co-ownership. It's a big deal. And I think for folks to hear that you started as an intern and now you're co-owning a casting company that has an insanely gorgeous legacy is, inspirational, but also really freaking cool. And so I hope that you've been able to celebrate that transition and that growth. It's a lot of growth.

[4:58] Claire Burke: Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that a lot. I feel like I'm so in the midst of the day-to-day and the hubbub of everything that sometimes I need to step back and look at the larger picture. Even saying I started in 2013, which is 12 years ago, it doesn't feel like I've been doing this for 12 years. It feels like yesterday in some ways. And then in other ways, it feels like I've grown a whole lot and know so much more than I did when I first got into this business.

[5:31] Jennifer Apple: Well, I'm curious how you got into this business from this angle. What made you go into casting? How did you even know that this was a thing? Where did you begin your origins with all of it?

[5:44] Claire Burke: Like many theater professionals in all walks, I went to school for acting. I went to NYU. I studied with the Atlantic Theater Company and I was an actor there. And I would say during my time in college, I started to think about other careers in theater that I might want to pursue. I saw how much dedication and hard work and how just everything that goes into being a working actor, it's relentless, as you know, and as I'm sure a lot of your listeners know. And I wasn't sure if I had the stamina or like the heart for that. I knew I loved theater, but I couldn't really see myself getting up at 6am for EPAs every day and doing the things that so many actors do. And I started dipping my toes in other areas.

When I was in school, I stage managed one of our shows. And then after school, a few friends and I formed like a teeny tiny downtown theater company where we were all just wearing all of the hats. And I got to fundraise and apply for grants and do all sorts of things on that side. And finding my way to casting was, you know, I knew of casting, obviously, as a career, but no one teaches it. And it's not something you can study in school. And I didn't know a whole lot about what went into it. So I just started. I started applying for internships. And I happened to get one at Tara's and I think I was like, a backup, you know, interesting, like, I think someone had fallen out for the spring or something.

And Lindsay Levine, who is a casting director, who's fabulous, emailed me. And that was my very first experience in a casting office. After that, I interned a little bit at Judy Henderson's. And I've seen how some other casting offices work. But Tara's was my very first time seeing everything that goes into it. Yeah. And what I was drawn to, and I'm still drawn to today is the balance between the artistry of the job and also just using your other the other side of your brain and being very analytical and organized and all of the like administrative work that goes into it. That does appeal to me as well.

[8:37] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. I love that you're naming that as a part of the job, you know, in that there's because I think in some ways, many folks have this idea that okay, the casting director is the one that just does all of the scheduling and the calling people in and the sifting through. But to also name and then there's I think the others that are like, oh, it's a creative thing. You're bringing folks in, you're involved with creatives. And I think to recognize that it really is this beautiful little marriage of both that you have the creativity to be like, okay, here's the project. We know this brief from the creative team, director, whomever. Who do we know? Who do we like? Who do we think might be a good fit?

And then you get to bring your artistic vision in that way, while also being organized on the back end to make sure that those people can get in the room and they have the appointments and all of the back end. So how do you balance for yourself those two? I don't know if they're hats for you or those two areas of what it is that your job entails.

[9:29] Claire Burke: I don't I would love to say I balance them. I think it's very what my day to day. There's no like regular this is what I do in the morning. This is what I do in the afternoon. It absolutely depends on what has popped up, what's most time sensitive, what I need to prioritize. So when I have days where I can spend hours in the morning, you know, going through old notes, clicking through YouTube, clicking through people's websites, really doing the fun artistic digging. Yeah, I love to do that. And I can get into a total zone while I'm doing that. But then once you're, once you're kind of into the process, you need to be bouncing back and forth a lot. There's a whole lot of, you know, emailing, printing, typing, just very dry things that I don't know that everyone thinks of when they think of that thing.

I feel like a lot of people imagine us sitting behind a table and just like, we appear there and then sit there all day. But there's so much just like running to staples, you know, things like that that go into it. And once we're in a process where we're auditioning 10 to six every day for a week or two weeks, it's very administratively heavy. And you need to have done all of that kind of research artistic work beforehand.

[11:07] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What would you say are some of the things that you cannot live without in order to do your job besides like, like a computer? But like, are there certain resources, or ways of working that you're like, I live and die by my notes app? Or like, you know, I have a CRM on the back end with like, all the people that I know, or like, what are some of the things that you love?

[11:26] Claire Burke: I mean, I love a Google Sheet. I don't know if that's the kind of thing. Yeah, no, it is. I mean, people have different ways of working. And I'm always curious about it, which maybe is just me. But I'm kind of always like, how do people stay organized?

[11:40] Claire Burke: Yeah, I will. I do my best to stay organized. And it's very much like I live by Google Sheets. I also am the person like, everyone in my office makes fun of me because I'm a I'm a real tabs lady. Like, I don't shut any of my tabs.

[11:53] Jennifer Apple: By choice, or like, you love seeing them.

[12:01] Claire Burke: I, I don't even know that I love seeing them as much as I need to see them to remind myself of everything I need. Yeah. So it's like, you know, all of the Google Sheet part one show up, another show up, another show. Here's a link. Here's like a bunch of resumes. Here's this email I need to send. It's almost like my to do list in tab form.

[12:22] Jennifer Apple: I kind of understand that with my email, I kind of like until the email has been, you know, read it acts as like invoice, you know, inbox 15. And then finally 15 becomes 10. And I know that that is I have 10 things now I need to do in my inbox. So I relate to that. You know, somebody once turned me on to it's called one tab. I'm not sponsored by this, but you probably have heard this before. It's like, it's this little button that you put on as a little browser thing. And what it does is on the back end, it keeps let's say you have like, this is so technical, people are like, why am I why am I sleeping? But like, if you have, you know, one browser open that has five tabs on it, and then you have another browser open that has 12 tabs on it, and you click the little one tab on the back end, it still keeps them organized by the tabs that you have per your little screen. And you can always rebring up that browser with 10 different tabs that saved without it being directly in your front.

[13:14] Claire Burke: Okay, that's great.

[13:19] Jennifer Apple: That is Yeah, that is good to know. I, I think in certain circumstances, I can use that in others, I need to be looking at something.

[14:00] Jennifer Apple: Welcome back to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. Today, we are continuing our Casting Director Mini-Series with the incredible Claire Burke, who is a casting director and co-owner of The TRC Company. Claire, thank you so much for being here.

[14:30] Claire Burke: Thank you for having me, Jennifer! I'm excited to be here and share a bit about my journey and the casting process.

[15:00] Jennifer Apple: Absolutely! So, let's dive right in. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey from intern to co-owner of The TRC Company?

[15:10] Claire Burke: Sure! I started as an intern with Tara Rubin in 2013, working on Andrew Lloyd Webber's "School of Rock." It was an incredible experience that really opened my eyes to the casting process. Over the years, I worked my way up, learning the ins and outs of the industry, and eventually became a co-owner of the company.

[15:20] Jennifer Apple: That's amazing! What do you think are some of the key skills that a casting director needs to have?

[15:30] Claire Burke: I believe it's essential to balance artistic intuition with analytical skills. You need to be able to read the room during auditions and understand what the creative team is looking for. It's also important to never underestimate a specific submission or attending an EPA.

[15:40] Jennifer Apple: Those are great insights. Can you elaborate on the importance of reading the room during auditions?

[15:50] Claire Burke: Absolutely! Reading the room is crucial because it helps you gauge the energy and vibe of the audition. It allows you to adjust your approach and give the performers the best chance to shine. You want to create an environment where they feel comfortable and can showcase their talents.

[16:00] Jennifer Apple: That makes so much sense. Now, let's talk about visibility. How important is it for performers to maintain a website or online presence?

[16:10] Claire Burke: It's incredibly important! A website enhances visibility and serves as a platform for performers to showcase their work. It’s a way for casting directors to find you and see what you can do. In today's digital age, having an online presence is essential for any artist.

[16:20] Jennifer Apple: Great advice! What would you say to aspiring casting directors who are trying to break into the industry?

[16:30] Claire Burke: I would encourage them to gain as much experience as possible. Internships and assistant positions are invaluable. Networking is also key—attend industry events, connect with professionals, and don’t be afraid to reach out for informational interviews.

[28:00] Claire Burke: Welcome to the Casting Director Mini-Series. I'm Claire Burke, and today we're diving into the intricacies of the casting process and what it takes to book the room.

[28:30] Claire Burke: As a casting director, my journey began as an intern, and I’ve worked my way up to co-owning The TRC Company. It’s been a fascinating ride, and I’m excited to share insights from my experiences.

[29:00] Claire Burke: One of the key aspects of casting is balancing artistic intuition with analytical skills. It’s not just about finding the right talent; it’s also about understanding the dynamics of the room during auditions.

[29:30] Claire Burke: Reading the room is crucial for performers. You need to gauge the energy and adjust your performance accordingly. It’s about connecting with the casting team and making a memorable impression.

[29:38] Claire Burke: I always encourage actors not to underestimate any submission or the importance of attending an EPA. Every opportunity counts, and you never know what might come from it.

[29:47] Claire Burke: Maintaining a strong online presence is also vital. Having a website enhances visibility and allows casting directors to find you more easily. It’s an essential tool in today’s industry.

[30:02] Claire Burke: Embracing the elements that are out of your control is part of the journey. The industry can be unpredictable, but focusing on what you can control—like your preparation and mindset—can make a significant difference.

[30:11] Claire Burke: For those aspiring to become casting directors, my advice is to gain as much experience as possible. Internships and entry-level positions are invaluable for understanding the casting process from the ground up.

[30:19] Claire Burke: It’s also important to build relationships within the industry. Networking can open doors and provide opportunities that you might not find otherwise.

[30:28] Claire Burke: I love working with young artists and teaching acting and audition techniques. It’s rewarding to help them navigate their careers and find their unique voices.

[30:37] Claire Burke: When I’m not casting, I enjoy exploring new restaurants and attending concerts. It’s a great way to recharge and find inspiration outside of work.

[30:45] Claire Burke: I live on the Upper West Side with my husband and two cats. They keep me grounded and remind me of the importance of balance in life.

[30:54] Claire Burke: Thank you for joining me today in this mini-series. I hope these insights help you understand the casting world better and inspire you in your artistic journey.

[42:01] Claire Burke: These audition days often are just very long days with a whole bunch of different people, a whole bunch of different personalities in a room trying to create something with a shared vision. And that is not always cut and dry. You know, it's constantly evolving, it's constantly moving. And just the little gesture of like, well, I have my comfort coffee, and I have everything I need. Like that just helps everything move forward more smoothly, and keeps everyone, you know, in a positive mind headspace.

[42:55] Jennifer Apple: For sure. For sure. Within your office, do people all touch all the shows and projects happening simultaneously? Or do you delineate by show, depending on the project?

[43:06] Claire Burke: We have point people for every show. So it kind of depends on the show and the timing. Sometimes we'll have co-casting directors on a show, or sometimes we'll have one casting director and two associates, or at the minimum, there's always one casting director and one associate assigned to a show. So those are the people who are super involved in the day to day, all of the emailing with the creative team. They're at the auditions, and they know everything, all the details of what's going on. But we do, it's very important to us to be collaborative as an office. And I think one of the great things about having as many of us as we have, is that I may have seen someone that, you know, the stance call who is so right for this other show that I might not be the point person on, but I can give that person to Kevin and, you know, say, oh, you should see them for Death Becomes Her.

And we have, you know, weekly staff meetings and check ins where we find out everything that's going on with all of our projects. And so we can collaborate in that way, even though we might not know every single detail.

[44:18] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I think this is something that people forget is that like casting directors operate similarly in that y'all are freelancers. I mean, like, yes, if you have a show that, you know, runs a long time, that's a different kind of thing. But you're still hustling to find the projects in some kind of way. So how do you secure your opportunities, your shows, your tours, your regional stuff, your Broadway or whatever? Like, what are you doing?

[44:41] Claire Burke: I mean, we're hired by producers. And we are brought on through any number of avenues. It might be a director who we worked with a whole bunch. And we have a great relationship with and the director asked the producer to use us. It might be a general management company who we have, you know, who we know. And then there are certain producers who Tara has a history with, or they work with Mary Sugarman all the time. And so they come to us. But there we are also always trying to meet new people and work with new people in the industry who are coming up and who are very exciting to us. And so we also like, just as actors do, we send out our little emails and say, you know, I see that you're working on this. Yeah, this seems like such an exciting show, we'd love to be a part of it. And we go about things that way as well. Like on top of the connections that we've built.

[45:42] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. Is it by staying on top of creatives that you're into and seeing where they are in the process of their work? Is it like, and by that, I mean, like keeping your fingers on like all of the projects? Or is it, again, like trusting that there's somebody in the office who's like, hey, I just saw this one thing, actually, we should do this. What about what are your thoughts?

[46:02] Claire Burke: It's, it's both we do all, I would say have a, you know, our fingers on the pulse of what's kind of going on in the industry and what is having a reading or what was just announced what was in the briefing. Yeah. And we try and follow that. And then if there's something that's exciting to one of us, we will usually bring it to the other casting directors or the other partners and say like, hey, I'd kind of like to put us forward for this. What do you think? Does anyone here know anyone involved? You know, how should we go about this in the most respectful, but also advocating for ourselves way?

[46:44] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, very, very, very real. Yeah. Very relatable.

[46:52] Claire Burke: For anybody who is wanting to go down the casting director route, and you named it in the beginning that there isn't at the moment, you know, like the educational structure of like, this is how you do it. And again, why this series exists, you know, is so that people can recognize that there are many access points into the way you can enter into it and also the way you can do the actual career. But for you, what are some of the things that you would recommend for folks who are wanting to potentially dabble in casting land, whether they're like in the school of it all, like in undergrad, or whether they're at a point in their career that they're maybe trying to pivot out, or they've had a realization and an aha moment. And this is, you know, they're in corporate and now they're here.

[47:34] Claire Burke: Yeah. Or for people who are in the industry in some way, or are in school, and maybe have come across casting directors, either in a class at their school, or through an audition process, if they were an actor, I there's truly no harm in reaching out and just saying, you know, I'm thinking of a career change, I'm thinking of going into casting when I graduate, I would love to learn a little bit more about it, I would love to meet with you. I know, time, you know, if it's not an insanely crazy time in my schedule, I'm always more than happy to meet and have coffee with someone. And I know my colleagues are as well. And then if, if you're kind of coming totally cold to this, Casting Society of America is a professional organization that many casting directors belong to.

And they, I believe this is actually how I even found my first internship, they have a listserv, and they will send out emails, whenever a casting company or a casting director is needing help, they'll put it out on the CSA listserv. And often those are, you know, entry level assistant positions. And that's a great way to just kind of follow along with who's hiring and get your foot in the door that way.

[49:05] Jennifer Apple: I love it. That's so helpful. Also, just like, I mean, the CSA is, I feel like slowly and surely as the industry is recognizing how in, how important casting directors actually are, and how crucial they are to the whole process. I mean, not that I believe awards are anything, I have mixed feelings about it. But I think, you know, there's finally a little bit of a coming to around like, hey, none of these people would be on the stage. Yeah, like, here's the thing, maybe we should like acknowledge them at least. Um, but I, you know, I feel like at least in my sphere of influence, I'm starting to see a lot more from CSA around the work that they're doing. And there's some incredible people, some of my friends who are casting directors, like a part of it. And I had no idea that they have that listserv. And so that's really, really cool to know for folks who are wanting. So thank you for sharing that.

[49:51] Claire Burke: I think one thing that I just always want actors to take to heart, which is so much easier said than done, and I know, but is just almost like embracing the elements of auditioning that are out of your control. And letting that rather than letting that be something stressful to you, letting that free you up to just walk in the room, trust your preparation, have the opportunity to act and sing that day, and then leave it. Because I what I get upset and like feel bad about is when I see actors kind of spiraling after a process, or just thinking through all of the things that they could have done, or maybe if they'd done this differently, or maybe this happened, or maybe they were going for this sort of person. And that's why I didn't get it. And just now with years of being on the other side of the table and hearing these conversations and realizing how little of this has to do with like, the one choice you made, you know, it's not that's not the reason.

[51:11] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, that you didn't book this particular job. And just because you didn't book this particular job doesn't mean you didn't do a fantastic job. And you won't be remembered and called in again. And then when when it is the right role, that's gonna find you like, sometimes it takes more time than others. But I guess I just, I hope that is a positive thing that people can take away from the fact that they don't always know all the decisions being made is that there's not one thing they can do or not do that's gonna make or break this.

[51:43] Claire Burke: Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. It's definitely a reframe that I think with more time in my career at this point, I'm not perfect at it. But it's definitely something that I've really tried to lean into, which is not I don't even love the word control. But like, what do I have control over? And that's like, how I show up in the room and my preparation. And then as much as I could Pavlovian myself with a little cookie afterwards, no matter how it goes, you know, to perpetuate the like cycle of reward around your preparation and showing up and that is my job. My job is to do that. And how lucky I am that of a sea of hundreds and hundreds of people who submitted for this audition, I was given that opportunity.

And to take the little wins as they come as very real wins. And the reframe that yes, the luxury, unfortunately, but the luxury of this career thus far, and for most of us is the the ability to book something that you perform in forever. The the job in day to day, even when you have the thing that you're in forever, the job day to day is to keep showing up. And how can you continue to cultivate those skills to let you do so in the most free, collaborative, open, tenseless way to give yourself the best shot for you.

[53:06] Jennifer Apple: Mm hmm. And I love, I love what you said about like a cookie at the end or treat at the end. That is I also do encourage like, have something fun afterwards that you're gonna do. Yeah, because it's, then it's just, you know, it's a fun stop on your day on your way to do this even more exciting thing.

[53:25] Claire Burke: Yeah, exactly.

[53:33] Jennifer Apple: Thank you so much for going on this journey. And for engaging in this conversation and sharing your perspective and insights. And I am so grateful for the time that you've given knowing that your schedule is wild and inconsistent. So thank you.

[54:02] Claire Burke: Of course. Thank you. And this was so fun.

[54:09] Jennifer Apple: Yay. For anybody who wants to find you reach out, communicate, share what within your boundaries are the best ways for people to find you.

[54:18] Claire Burke: If you want to email me and we do not already have an email relationship, email the info at the TRC company.com and say in the subject line that it's for Claire and it'll get to me. If you want to learn about the shows that our company is working on, it's the TRC company on Instagram. If you've met me and you want to follow along with my cats and my husband, my Instagram is Claire Louise WB. And if that's not of interest to you, that's fine too. Honestly, we love the preface of this is what you're going to receive if you engage with my personal life. I do not have an industry centric personal Instagram. So just fair warning there.

[54:51] Jennifer Apple: You live amazing. Thank you so much for being in the space.

[54:57] Claire Burke: Of course. Thank you.

[54:57] Jennifer Apple: That's it for today's episode. I hope you walk away with some fresh insights, feel inspired and a little more empowered to take the next step on your artistic journey. Remember, whether it's a small shift or a big breakthrough, every step forward counts. You've got this and we're here cheering you on every step of the way. If you found today's episode helpful, don't forget to hit subscribe so you'll never miss out on the discussions we have each week. And if something today really resonated with you, please leave us a review. It truly is one of the best ways to help other artists find our podcast and join in on the conversations. Plus, we feel the love too when you do. And don't keep all this goodness to yourself.

Share this episode with your people or post about it on social media. Be sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistsCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can see what's landing for you and keep the conversation going. As always, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. And thank you for being a part of this incredible community. Keep creating, keep thriving, stay empowered. I'm Jennifer Apple. Until next time.