This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Dan Tracy: From the guys that brought you HELLO DOLLY versus The Music Man comes the March Madness Musical Spectacular Spectacular Spectacular Spectacular.

[0:20] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[0:21] Dan Tracy: There's like so much saliva on my microphone.

[0:24] Joe Carroll: Well, you were also just eating. So like we, you know, we're just listening to the food, the food and the saliva of weird.

[0:34] Dan Tracy: There it is. This is gross. This is gross. Literally, we I don't know, no one's gonna listen to this.

[0:40] Joe Carroll: I'm 99% sure that everybody has stopped listening to us, don't you think?

[0:44] Dan Tracy: Uh maybe.

[0:46] Joe Carroll: If they haven't yet, I mean I'm really excited about it. They're probably still listening in Brazil because apparently we are a top podcast in Brazil.

[0:55] Dan Tracy: Not a big deal. I got an email. I got an email this morning from uh chart topper something or other that Guys Who Like Musicals is the number 44 most popular podcast in Brazil.

[1:07] Joe Carroll: Not overall. In the performing arts category.

[1:10] Dan Tracy: Okay, let's tone it back. Also, who's that voice we hear?

[1:13] Matthew Mucha: Oh, hello, hello. Oh, welcome, Matthew.

[1:15] Matthew Mucha: What's going on, guys?

[1:18] Dan Tracy: Who are you?

[1:19] Matthew Mucha: I am Matthew Mucha, and I am uh moderating this superstar showdown today. And I'm very excited.

[1:27] Joe Carroll: The nimble fingered social media director of Guys Who Like Musicals listen here with us today.

[1:35] Dan Tracy: If you thought that our social media got better in the last six months, it did.

[1:39] Joe Carroll: That's right. It did.

[1:41] Dan Tracy: Because we hired somebody, this guy.

[1:43] Joe Carroll: Oh we haven't started paying him yet.

[1:45] Dan Tracy: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[1:46] Joe Carroll: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[1:48] Dan Tracy: So an actor is saying his lines, and then out of nowhere, he just starts singing.

[1:56] Joe Carroll: Bob Sixing 70.

[2:04] Dan Tracy: Don't cry for me.

[2:09] Joe Carroll: This week we're doing something totally different and totally fun. It is a battle royale.

[2:11] Dan Tracy: That's right. A March, a March Madness themed episode where uh Dan and I fight about what is the greatest musical of all time.

[2:24] Joe Carroll: Fight to the death.

[2:26] Dan Tracy: Through the guy the the format of March Madness.

[2:29] Joe Carroll: That's right. We have four categories. Dan explain I still don't know what we're doing exactly. Can you so what are we doing?

[2:35] Dan Tracy: Some of you, how many people, Matt?

[2:37] Matthew Mucha: I think by the end of it, it was almost 40.

[2:40] Dan Tracy: So 40 of you beautiful people out there in the world, probably 35 of you are from Brazil.

[2:46] Joe Carroll: Uh filled out our Google form and told us.

[2:52] Dan Tracy: There's probably like eight podcasts in Brazil. That's why it's like number 44 out of the correct.

[3:00] Joe Carroll: Um a couple of you filled out this Google form and told us uh what musical was your favorite in each of the four categories or regions.

[3:11] Dan Tracy: If you're a sports fan, we've got pop rock, contemporary, golden age, and dance.

[3:17] Joe Carroll: So on one half of the world we have pop rock versus contemporary in the final four, and on the other half of the world we have golden age and dance in the final four.

[3:26] Dan Tracy: Similar to the way it happens in Batman.

[3:28] Joe Carroll: That's right. We're gonna post this chart on on social and stuff so you can follow along with this madness.

[3:34] Dan Tracy: That's right. Um because uh but yeah, so basically the way that the March Madness works, where it's the east what region, south region, west region, north region.

[3:44] Joe Carroll: That's right. We are doing a pop rock category, a contemporary category, a golden age category and a dance category.

[3:52] Dan Tracy: That's right. And these shows are gonna fight to the death.

[3:55] Joe Carroll: And so in the first round we will fight to the death until we have eight teams left. So we will play two rounds today until we have eight teams remaining and then the audience will decide and it will be a head to head of Joe and Dan versus the fans.

[4:13] Dan Tracy: That will be next week.

[4:15] Joe Carroll: Or Joe and Dan versus each other.

[4:17] Dan Tracy: Joe and Dan versus each other with the final decisions made by the fans.

[4:21] Joe Carroll: Exactly Dan Team Joe basically and obviously they know what team they're on.

[4:27] Dan Tracy: So well I'm gonna need shirts at that team Joe Team Dan.

[4:34] Joe Carroll: Yeah exactly that's right. Get on it Matt that's that's your job we sold approximately one T-shirt this year so that'd be great.

[4:46] Dan Tracy: Yeah I think this is gonna be this is gonna be great. Um and we're gonna do all of our own um sound effects so we'll we'll do we'll right we'll do dinging for different rounds we'll we'll sing songs from the shows maybe if we're lucky uh maybe we won't um but uh let's go let's start let's start the battle this is wait this was from the this was based on uh the our favorite episode of last year where Dan and I fought about uh The Music Man and HELLO DOLLY.

[5:16] Joe Carroll: And so that's where this came from, because we had such a good time doing it. So we're just gonna we're gonna we're gonna battle.

[5:21] Dan Tracy: We're gonna battle royale. And if you don't like it, you can listen to the next one.

[5:29] Joe Carroll: Um what are so how does this work?

[5:34] Dan Tracy: Alright So if I'm looking at the bracket. Let's get ready to tumble First we have Legally Blonde versus Mamma Mia.

[5:50] Joe Carroll: No contest legally blonde next.

[5:53] Dan Tracy: Next wow, alright, there we go. Legally Blonde, perhaps one of the greatest films of all time.

[5:59] Joe Carroll: Okay, literally, one of the most brilliantly written screenplays that's ever existed. That is like you want to know how to write a movie.

[6:10] Dan Tracy: Also, I'm crazy about Reese Witherspoon. I think she's a genius.

[6:14] Joe Carroll: She is like created so many businesses. Uh the book club, all of the shows that she, you know, books that she's optioned, and so yeah, big fan, big Legally Blonde podcast, um, over here.

[6:26] Dan Tracy: Don't love her on Morning Show. Hot take.

[6:29] Joe Carroll: Oh.

[6:29] Dan Tracy: Don't love show. Feels feels false.

[6:32] Joe Carroll: I've never s never felt like Reed was false until the Morning Show. Great show, but um yeah, and Mamma Mia, um, I did I I did audition for Mamma Mia. That was one of my first Broadway auditions.

[6:44] Dan Tracy: Um didn't didn't didn't book. No callback. Uh we're not bitter at all.

[6:50] Joe Carroll: Not bitter. Yeah, so uh there's there's no way that Mamma Mia was gonna win that.

[6:55] Dan Tracy: Okay. Next.

[6:56] Joe Carroll: Alright, next up, we have AMERICAN IDIOT versus Rent.

[7:02] Dan Tracy: Oh, this no. No. This is the six this is a sixteen seed versus a seventeen seed, which is always tricky. Um man. I I think I got alright. I'm I'll go first, Dan. If you I was t I was thinking about this this morning.

[7:17] Joe Carroll: Um there is no AMERICAN IDIOT without Rent.

[7:21] Dan Tracy: That's true. So that is a quote from my wife, Alex Fink said that this morning when we were talking through talking through the bracket.

[7:29] Joe Carroll: Yep. So I think it's it's really hard because AMERICAN IDIOT is one of my absolute favorite shows of all time.

[7:36] Dan Tracy: Absolutely.

[7:38] Joe Carroll: But I think that Rent has to take it. I think that you just uh, you know, for history's sake. So I'm going with Rent.

[7:44] Dan Tracy: Absolutely. I I unfortunately have to have to agree. Especially, you know, not to say that like any book musical should beat a jukebox musical, but I think you put it perfectly, like without Jonathan Larson's Rent, there is no other like there isn't even a glimmer of hope that AMERICAN IDIOT would see a stage.

[8:04] Joe Carroll: Totally. So right. Right.

[8:06] Dan Tracy: Uh you you just have to, you know.

[8:08] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[8:10] Dan Tracy: Yeah. 100%.

[8:11] Joe Carroll: And then thinking about the people who made the people who said to Billy Joe Armstrong, let's turn this into a musical. Those people, you know, the Michael Mayers of the world, and the Tom Kitts of the world, and you know, the people who made that what it was, you know, they were in, you know, so it's like uh you know, we're just driving that point home that you know, Rent was so revolutionary.

[8:34] Dan Tracy: Didn't it just celebrate 20, what was it? There was a big interview.

[8:39] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I think they have like a documentary kind of tracking the history of it and stuff.

[8:44] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Somewhere.

[8:47] Joe Carroll: Alright, boys, we got a lot of games to cover here.

[8:49] Dan Tracy: We do.

[8:50] Joe Carroll: Alright, next up, we have the battle of the Long Hair. JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR and Hair.

[8:53] Dan Tracy: Huh.

[9:02] Joe Carroll: Blow it. I mean, that's another one where like I don't think there's like there's no Rent without Hair.

[9:04] Dan Tracy: There's no Rent without Hair.

[9:12] Joe Carroll: Yes. There's no JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR without Hair.

[9:15] Dan Tracy: Right. Right.

[9:17] Joe Carroll: So if we wanted to go by on that model, um I mean this is this is we're getting tricky now because they're both very conceptual.

[9:29] Dan Tracy: Yep.

[9:29] Joe Carroll: They're both very abstract. I mean, I just think I think Hair is still so timely in a way. And I don't know. I mean, I don't want to take it based on like revivals and like the success of the show, but like, I mean, there was a JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR revival a couple years ago. Paul Nolan.

[9:52] Dan Tracy: But like is this like that?

[9:57] Joe Carroll: Hair?

[9:57] Dan Tracy: That's Hair. I think I might have to build that into a hotkey. So that like at certain moments in the show I can be like.

[10:11] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[10:11] Dan Tracy: Alright. But what's I think take it take the shooter shot. For me it's me, it's Hair too.

[10:17] Joe Carroll: That's our first uh sorry, first upset. That's our first upset. 25 beats the eight seed.

[10:21] Dan Tracy: Okay. Next to Normal and SPRING AWAKENING.

[10:23] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Damn, these they are out here with. This one is I mean, like, this one's brutal. It's tricky. It's gotta be Next to Normal.

[10:33] Dan Tracy: I mean, it's it's gotta be.

[10:35] Joe Carroll: Fuck. Wow. I know you're a SPRING AWAKENING head, so I didn't know that I I'm I'm shocked by it.

[10:41] Dan Tracy: Honestly, I think I think we can fight about this because I I saw Next to Normal. I saw both of these on Broadway.

[10:47] Joe Carroll: I was at the winning night of Next to Normal.

[10:49] Dan Tracy: Wow.

[10:50] Joe Carroll: No way.

[10:51] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[10:53] Joe Carroll: I remember being so crazy moved by by both of these shows, but SPRING AWAKENING, I remember watching a whole bunch. I was 16, and we talked to Michael Arden about this, but like I remember watching it and seeing people who were my age starring in a Broadway musical singing about shit that I was related to.

[11:12] Dan Tracy: That we were going through.

[11:13] Joe Carroll: I don't know. I think for me it's SPRING AWAKENING. I just I think it ushered in an era of rock musical in the in the you know early 2000s that like I I don't know. I just I think that I don't know it can't be.

[11:29] Dan Tracy: Okay, alright. It can't be. It has to be Next to Normal because I I'm with you. I don't know. This is fucking hard. Because like there'd never been anything like Next to Normal.

[11:42] Joe Carroll: You know, it just it breaks it, it's like it ha as a play, it really breaks a lot of ground.

[11:49] Dan Tracy: And and in many ways, so does SPRING AWAKENING, but I think you you would be hard pressed to not pay attention to the way that the music is integrated in Next to Normal as as it compares to SPRING AWAKENING.

[12:03] Joe Carroll: And you know, I love that SPRING AWAKENING score more than anything in the world, but the fact that it is a separation of the story, not a continuation of the story, I guess is why I choose Next to Normal.

[12:14] Dan Tracy: Because right? But but also who who said that's the one. That's a musical theater nerd some bullshit that's yeah, but that's why technicality. You know, yeah, I mean also yeah, it that's like some kind of old school stupid shit, which is the reason why, you know, people feel uh alienated by Broadway because we have all these stupid fucking rules about stuff like that.

[12:33] Joe Carroll: But I still think that it's Next to Normal.

[12:36] Dan Tracy: Alright, so Matt, this is the this is the first this is this is the the um the first time you gotta weigh in here. What are the f what are the fans say?

[12:42] Matthew Mucha: I mean, based on the votes based on the votes from the fans, SPRING AWAKENING beat it out by one. However, so so we can move forward with that, but I also think the argument made for Next to Normal was was strong.

[13:01] Joe Carroll: And yeah, I don't know. I'm splot. I did the bracket through with my girlfriend yesterday, and this was like one of the hardest ones that we debated about.

[13:12] Dan Tracy: All right, listen, you're the judge. You're the czar. Didn't Next to Normal win the Pulitzer?

[13:16] Joe Carroll: This is bullshit. I'm pissed.

[13:18] Dan Tracy: Yeah, it did. You people I can't believe this.

[13:22] Joe Carroll: Oh my god. If you alienate our fans one more time, what are you gonna do?

[13:28] Dan Tracy: I'm gonna claim it and chem through this computing.

[13:31] Joe Carroll: Yeah, you might. Maybe that yourself.

[13:35] Dan Tracy: Right. Yo fine. Okay. Next to Normal it is.

[13:40] Joe Carroll: All right. Uh congratulations, Dan.

[13:44] Dan Tracy: Congratulations. Uh wait, no, I didn't win, I lost.

[13:48] Joe Carroll: No, it was Next to Normal.

[13:49] Dan Tracy: No, we're gonna go with it.

[13:50] Joe Carroll: Yeah. You said the fans said SPRING AWAKENING by one.

[13:53] Dan Tracy: Yeah, but Matt just weighed in and said SPRING AWAKENING streets.

[13:57] Joe Carroll: Okay. Oh well, all right. The rules are the fans decide.

[14:00] Dan Tracy: Wow. So I lost it, and I'm pissed.

[14:03] Joe Carroll: Alright. Okay. Alright. I just oh I understand. We're getting the rules straight here because for a second, I wouldn't not sure. We made this game up, okay? We have to follow our music rules. Incredibly prepared and organized.

[14:15] Dan Tracy: Alright. Alright, so we're going with the so the people who spoke in SPRING AWAKENING is. Wow. That is an absolute shame.

[14:23] Joe Carroll: So coming out of the first round in the pop rock category, we got SPRING AWAKENING, Hair, Rent, and Legally Blonde.

[14:31] Dan Tracy: That's correct. Moving on to uh the contemporary category.

[14:37] Joe Carroll: Yep. Our first one, and this is another one that's gonna this is I mean, it's just gonna be a whole afternoon of this. Company and Ragtime.

[14:47] Dan Tracy: Brutal. Absolutely brutal.

[14:50] Joe Carroll: Because when we talk about contemporary musicals, I mean they're like these two are basically in two completely different categories. But Company is a four seed, Ragtime's a 29 seed, which I think is an absolute atrocity.

[15:03] Dan Tracy: I think that's arbitrary. I think that's yeah. Because twenty uh Next to Normal was a nine seed and SPRING AWAKENING was a 24 seed, and SPRING AWAKENING had more votes, so we don't have to pay attention to the seeds.

[15:12] Joe Carroll: Is that true, Matt?

[15:13] Matthew Mucha: Uh yeah.

[15:14] Joe Carroll: Going back on my incredible knowledge of sports, I will say that the seed numbers may be a little uh okay, good.

[15:21] Dan Tracy: What well what's good about that is that it doesn't give it away for us. Like Ragtime, like it doesn't give it away.

[15:27] Joe Carroll: So um I think that this is too hard to have put together. Um I think Ragtime is possibly the best musical written in the last 20 years.

[15:39] Dan Tracy: Uh but I also recognize that there like if we're gonna go about firsts, we didn't really show a depiction of contemporary American life in in a realistic way until Company. And there it was the first musical ever about divorce.

[16:02] Joe Carroll: Mm-hmm. And I think it's arguably top three, four for Sondheim.

[16:09] Dan Tracy: So I have to go with Company. Spe it's also just a personal preference because like that show shaped my love. Like 2005 Tony performance, we'll never forget it.

[16:19] Joe Carroll: That was like clear, straight arrow to where I am right now. I was like decided when I was watching that performance on the piano on the Tony Awards, so yeah.

[16:28] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I mean, I I'm gonna go with Ragtime, and I'm I'm not gonna fight you too hard on it because I get it. I love Company. I get it.

[16:36] Joe Carroll: Uh but Ragtime was was like that for me. I got to do it sophomore year of college. I think that the depiction of racial tension in that show and immigrant tension in that show is still it's it's st it's still spot on.

[16:51] Dan Tracy: It's still uh is way too um prevalent and and and topical. Um I think the the issue people have with it, like when we when we were talking about Ragtime over the summer, that like it it is so grand, it's so like every song is just the most epic song you've ever heard, and I'm not mad about it because I like when I was on a well, Alex and I were on a road trip last summer, and we put on Ragtime, you know, singing it at the top of our lungs, driving across Ohio or whatever, and like I listened to Company and I like Company, but I mean there's nothing like cruising down I-80 just like screaming till we reach that like at the top of your fucking lungs over caffeinated.

[17:36] Joe Carroll: I'm with it. Um so Ragtime it is for me. What are the people say, Matt?

[17:39] Matthew Mucha: People say Ragtime.

[17:41] Joe Carroll: Hey! Well, everyone hates that.

[17:44] Dan Tracy: That's not surprising at all. Let's keep going.

[17:48] Joe Carroll: Back to the uh the Team Joe and Team Dan shirts that we're gonna get.

[17:51] Dan Tracy: Totally. That's two swish sounds for Team Joe.

[17:55] Joe Carroll: Okay. That's my swish sound.

[17:58] Dan Tracy: No. We're going back to high Cs for Team Joe.

[18:08] Joe Carroll: Okay. Unbelievable. Alright. Next up you have Hamilton versus Wicked.

[18:16] Dan Tracy: Which is just a crazy matchup. It's just supposed to match up.

[18:24] Joe Carroll: This is this is I love it though, and I love that Hamilton is a 13 seed and Wicked is a 20 seed.

[18:30] Dan Tracy: Right. Like we took box officer seats and just like threw them out the window with this particular matchup.

[18:36] Joe Carroll: Um this is not a hot take for me. I think that Wicked is trash.

[18:42] Dan Tracy: So um, I I think that every single time I read the scenes from that show, I'm like, wait, this isn't actually good.

[18:52] Joe Carroll: Um I I I don't love and and you know.

[18:56] Dan Tracy: Yeah, the New York Times agreed with you in 2000.

[18:59] Joe Carroll: I just like I think the music is amazing. I think the story is amazing. Again, it was the first Broadway show I saw, and is the reason one of the reasons why I do this, but I still just don't think it it has the same kind of legs.

[19:12] Dan Tracy: I think it's all like um it's driven by music, spectacle, hype, nostalgia because of the Wizard of Oz kind of crossover, and and tie-ins, and I have to go with Hamilton.

[19:27] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I think it's just it's not even close. I think that that Wicked I will say this for you know, I don't I don't feel as strongly about uh you know people people straight up don't like Wicked, which I which I totally I understand, but like Wicked was for lack of a better analogy, the Hamilton of like our generation.

[19:49] Dan Tracy: You know, when we were coming up, it was the first like pop culture phenomenon that had happened on Broadway in a long time.

[19:58] Joe Carroll: So you're you're like walking through the you know, you know, the mall or whatever, and somebody's singing Popular, you know, in the you know, like I remember I remember that.

[20:08] Dan Tracy: I remember like it being one of these complete phenomena.

[20:11] Joe Carroll: So like I think that w musical theater has these like bench posts of popularity that happen every like ten or fifteen years or so, um, that just like frankly keep it relevant because like I'm you know, it's like it was Wicked, and then it was Glee, and then it was you know, and then you know SPRING AWAKENING theater somewhere.

[20:29] Dan Tracy: The Book of what you know, and so I don't know, Hamilton is just it's it's it's a c it's iconic.

[20:35] Joe Carroll: It's it's you know, I go I go I think back to when um Rob McClure posted this thing. He lives in Philadelphia. Do you remember this post where he was he was doing I don't know if he was doing what he was doing at the time, but he lives like outside of Philadelphia and the trains were down or something, and so he had to take an Uber from New York City to Philadelphia.

[20:52] Dan Tracy: Uh-huh.

[20:53] Joe Carroll: And he was talking with the driver, and the driver's like, What do you do? And he's like, I'm an actor, uh musical theater, and he's like, Have you heard of Hamilton?

[21:01] Dan Tracy: And he get in gets in this conversation with uh he gets in the conversation with this Uber driver who is a who's an immigrant, uh-huh, and they put on Hamilton, the record had already come out, and they listened to the entire thing from on the drive from New York City to Philadelphia.

[21:13] Joe Carroll: Wow and this guy who was who had literally moved to the United States weeks ago or whatever in this story you know was like this is the most comprehensive history of the Amer of like why America is the way that it is and it's it's you know all of these you know I don't know there's a million stories like that about Hamilton but I just think that it like you said Hamilton has legs.

[21:35] Dan Tracy: It's it's just there's just no there's no comparing all right Hamilton it is yeah um there's no way that the people chose Wicked right no the people chose Hamilton yeah that's right it was closer than I would have expected it to be but there was Hamilton.

[21:54] Joe Carroll: I don't know it's gonna start losing faith in our audience good God okay let's move along.

[21:54] Dan Tracy: Yeah don't you keep talking shit about our audience I swear to God I thought that's what we were doing today.

[22:05] Joe Carroll: Don't get it no we're talking shit about each other we're you talking you listen you okay do we have uh oh HELLO DOLLY plays Oklahoma later okay so we can talk about that anyway biggest piece of trash fucking yeah I'm waiting for that wait Waitress all right here we go Matt was Waitress versus Come From Away I'm just we're just trying to start house fights Virgo I mean we're just trying no well listen I um I think I think for me it's gotta be Waitress.

[22:49] Dan Tracy: Me too.

[22:50] Joe Carroll: Which is might be slightly blasphemous because my wife did Come From Away for two and a half years, but I remember I mean, come on, Waitress.

[22:59] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[23:00] Joe Carroll: It's just I freaking loved that show.

[23:04] Dan Tracy: And the music holds up.

[23:06] Joe Carroll: I mean, I also thinking about what we have access to right now. Like, I put on the Waitress soundtrack all the time.

[23:11] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[23:12] Joe Carroll: Waitress might be a perfect show.

[23:16] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[23:17] Joe Carroll: It's not a good idea.

[23:17] Dan Tracy: No, a lot of people didn't like showing it all the time, but it's it's it might be a perfect musical.

[23:22] Joe Carroll: It has all of these like bench posts that it needs to have. It's got comedy throughout, it's got likable characters all the way through. The music is super epic. It's got something happening on stage that we've never seen before.

[24:30] Dan Tracy: And Come From Away, I think like suffers in comparison only because it's an ensemble piece. One of the things that makes it as strong as it is, you can't latch on to uh character identities and character journeys in the same way because it's kind of just a brilliant historical reflection, but it suffers that thing of it becoming more journalism than drama.

[24:30] Joe Carroll: Which is what Aaron Sorkin always talks about.

[24:30] Dan Tracy: Yeah, and and I also find Waitress, I think you said that the I love that the characters are extremely messy. Every single person in Waitress is a flawed individual.

[24:30] Joe Carroll: Right.

[24:30] Dan Tracy: And I love seeing that. I love seeing people that want and feel things that they shouldn't.

[24:30] Joe Carroll: Right. You know, as opposed to, you know, everything's tap dancing and puppy dogs or whatever.

[24:30] Dan Tracy: I don't know what show that is. What's the t tap dancing puppy dog show?

[24:30] Joe Carroll: Um, but uh Come From Away, I do, I think is is amazing, and I think that a lot of our audience would probably disagree because Come From Away is such an audience show.

[24:38] Dan Tracy: Like, I mean I have seen it as many times as I did. When you leave that thing, Matt, did you see it?

[24:42] Matthew Mucha: Yeah, I saw it twice.

[24:44] Joe Carroll: I saw it once early on, and then I went again with my girlfriend and her parents, and it's again one of those things where it's like even if you're not a theater person, just because of what it's about, there's you know, you innately are connected to it, and then when it ends, you're like, oh wow, I'm obsessed.

[25:00] Dan Tracy: And and I gotta say, the audience this was a really tight one. There was a lot of love for Come From Away.

[25:06] Joe Carroll: Alright. What's the what's the what's the so who's the one the audience did pick Waitress, but it was by like two votes, and this was like the highest voted across the board.

[25:19] Dan Tracy: Like almost everybody had one or the other on their on their thing, yeah.

[25:25] Joe Carroll: Good taste.

[25:26] Dan Tracy: Huh.

[25:27] Joe Carroll: Good taste.

[25:27] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[25:28] Joe Carroll: Very interesting.

[25:29] Dan Tracy: When the audience listeners.

[25:32] Joe Carroll: Yeah, we'll see.

[25:33] Dan Tracy: So now if they keep picking Team Joe, I'm not sure I'm gonna like anybody.

[25:38] Joe Carroll: Let's listen.

[25:43] Dan Tracy: So like everyone should be afraid of me.

[25:46] Joe Carroll: Oh, for sure.

[25:48] Dan Tracy: That was really funny.

[25:49] Joe Carroll: Um that was really funny.

[25:50] Dan Tracy: I thought that was funny too.

[25:51] Joe Carroll: What's next?

[25:52] Dan Tracy: We got Lamez versus Phantom.

[25:57] Joe Carroll: This is really funny too. Like actually a perfect matchup because you have to choose between the epics.

[26:06] Dan Tracy: Mm-hmm. You know.

[26:08] Joe Carroll: Um huge scale.

[26:13] Dan Tracy: Sorry.

[26:15] Joe Carroll: You good, bud?

[26:16] Dan Tracy: Yeah, no, I'm good.

[26:17] Joe Carroll: You looked scared for a second.

[26:19] Dan Tracy: I'm just a scary person, Joe.

[26:22] Joe Carroll: This is true.

[26:23] Dan Tracy: Very true.

[26:24] Joe Carroll: No, so it's a battle of the epics.

[26:25] Dan Tracy: Battle of the epics.

[26:27] Joe Carroll: Yeah, this was a couple of these on this side. I'm like, why are these next to each other?

[26:32] Dan Tracy: It's like they did. Did you do this on purpose?

[26:34] Joe Carroll: Um a couple of them.

[26:36] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[26:36] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[26:36] Dan Tracy: Jackass.

[26:37] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[26:38] Dan Tracy: Um hate him.

[26:39] Joe Carroll: Hate hate this guy.

[26:40] Dan Tracy: No, I listen. He is the literal reason that people are listening to us.

[26:47] Joe Carroll: I know.

[26:47] Dan Tracy: I know.

[26:48] Joe Carroll: I hate him.

[26:49] Dan Tracy: You'd be nice.

[26:49] Joe Carroll: I wanted to have a whole segment where we like have Matt the intern and we treat him like shit, but I just can't anymore. Like I can't I can't do that with you because you've created such, you know, you've boosted our social media a thousand percent.

[27:07] Dan Tracy: Okay.

[27:07] Joe Carroll: Um starting out. Let us discuss Lay Miz and Phantom.

[27:15] Dan Tracy: I mean for me it's not even close.

[27:18] Joe Carroll: For me, it's not even close either.

[27:20] Dan Tracy: Alright.

[27:20] Joe Carroll: Absolutely.

[27:23] Dan Tracy: Jesus Christ.

[27:25] Joe Carroll: Okay, yeah, I was gonna say Lay Miz too.

[27:27] Dan Tracy: Great.

[27:32] Joe Carroll: And that's not anything against Phantom, but just like they're they're it's not even uh I don't even think it's a contest, to be honest.

[27:40] Dan Tracy: Better story, strong, you know, more uh I guess it's a good one. I mean, like one is a melodrama and the other one is an epic tragedy.

[27:48] Joe Carroll: It just completely different categories in ways, and like, you know, there's yeah.

[27:55] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[27:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I guess, you know, uh one of the things Alex was saying this morning we were talking these through is um you know, Phantom was like one of the early like one of the earliest spectacles, you know. The chandelier comes falling, and like that was that was a feat of theatrical engineering.

[28:10] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[28:10] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[28:11] Dan Tracy: Okay, cool.

[28:11] Joe Carroll: And it's like a billion dollar enterprise. We get it. But I just think that yeah, it's just not even close for me.

[28:20] Dan Tracy: Like also Le Miz like I sat there watching the tenth anniversary of Le Miz VHS tape in my childhood bedroom on repeat. Talk about musicals that made you want to do musicals.

[28:31] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[28:33] Dan Tracy: So that's so funny.

[28:34] Joe Carroll: Yeah. I watched the Royal Albert Hall Phantom with Ramin and Sierra, like or that like wore the DVD out like completely.

[28:43] Dan Tracy: And then when it was on Netflix for a minute, and I was like, oh, this is something else. But yeah, I gotta go.

[28:48] Joe Carroll: And the people agree. This was again another even matchup, but Le Miz beat it out.

[28:56] Dan Tracy: Oh right.

[28:58] Joe Carroll: Shifting over to the old world.

[29:00] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[29:00] Joe Carroll: First stop. We got Fiddler on the Roof versus the Sound of Music.

[29:02] Dan Tracy: Fiddler on the Roof.

[29:09] Joe Carroll: Next.

[29:11] Dan Tracy: No, no. Sorry, was that too fast?

[29:14] Joe Carroll: Was that too fast?

[29:15] Dan Tracy: No, I think that I think I think the same.

[29:18] Joe Carroll: Sound of music, the movie, the film.

[29:21] Dan Tracy: Better than the stage show.

[29:22] Joe Carroll: Better.

[29:22] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I agree.

[29:25] Joe Carroll: There are some unbelievably perfect musical moments in the Sound of Music, but I mean talk about.

[29:32] Dan Tracy: Go ahead.

[29:33] Joe Carroll: Well, like, there is no Le Miz without Fiddler on the Roof.

[29:37] Dan Tracy: No anything without Fiddler.

[29:38] Joe Carroll: I mean, Fiddler on the Roof. Structurally, there's no Hamilton. Hamilton is structurally Fiddler on the Roof.

[29:44] Dan Tracy: Right.

[29:44] Joe Carroll: It's the same it's the exact same tradition and the opening of out, you know, the opening of Ham.

[29:51] Dan Tracy: Come on.

[29:51] Joe Carroll: It's the same thing.

[29:52] Dan Tracy: It's the same.

[29:53] Joe Carroll: There's not that is structurally uh musical theater is fitly from a nerdy standpoint.

[30:01] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[30:02] Joe Carroll: I don't disagree at all.

[30:04] Dan Tracy: Okay, moving on along.

[30:05] Joe Carroll: Alright, let's do it. Did the did the people agree or did the people go with the people?

[30:06] Dan Tracy: The people did agree?

[30:12] Joe Carroll: But it was again, it was a close one. It was like it was like a one off because I think there's a lot of love for Sound of Music, like you said, movie-wise.

[30:17] Dan Tracy: Well, yeah, more so than the stage.

[30:19] Joe Carroll: Like people like the music because they grew up on it, but totally.

[30:22] Dan Tracy: Oh, this is gonna this next one's gonna be controversial.

[30:25] Joe Carroll: Yeah, gypsy versus music man.

[30:27] Dan Tracy: It's trying to come for my show, and I gotta adjust myself in my sequence.

[30:32] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah, I alright.

[30:35] Dan Tracy: This okay. Do you want me to go first?

[30:37] Joe Carroll: Sure.

[30:37] Dan Tracy: This this is not gonna create this is not gonna be great for radio drama, but it's music man by a landslide.

[30:47] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[30:48] Dan Tracy: Interesting.

[30:49] Joe Carroll: Not a gypsy fan.

[30:50] Dan Tracy: Not a gypsy fan.

[30:51] Joe Carroll: Not a gypsy fan.

[30:53] Dan Tracy: I don't I get it.

[30:57] Joe Carroll: I get it like for the that is the definition of an 11 o'clock number.

[31:01] Dan Tracy: There's you know, that that is a tentpole of the musical theater.

[31:05] Joe Carroll: Mm-hmm.

[31:07] Dan Tracy: 100% true.

[31:08] Joe Carroll: And I know that if we would open of our of our song bumper.

[31:14] Dan Tracy: That's true.

[31:15] Joe Carroll: The one four one five.

[31:16] Dan Tracy: That's it.

[31:17] Joe Carroll: But still, you know, I'm gonna pick the music man.

[31:20] Dan Tracy: Fucking music man music man for the natty.

[31:24] Joe Carroll: That's right.

[31:25] Dan Tracy: He takes it.

[31:26] Joe Carroll: Music man all the way.

[31:27] Dan Tracy: Why does anybody the crossover of just like bro culture, sports and musical theater? I don't understand why anyone listens to us, but we've got 44 people in Brazil that do, and so we love you for it.

[31:32] Joe Carroll: We love you.

[31:39] Dan Tracy: You do it for them.

[31:40] Joe Carroll: Um I think I would love to have a debate with somebody who is a huge gypsy fan, and I know that like we have a lot of friends who are, and yeah, I think Samantha Bissell might never listen to the show again.

[31:50] Dan Tracy: Now that she has in the first place, but yeah, yeah.

[31:53] Joe Carroll: Hey, hey Sam, if you're listening, text me and tell me that you listen to this episode.

[31:57] Dan Tracy: Right.

[31:58] Joe Carroll: And I'm never gonna get a text message.

[32:00] Dan Tracy: Um but uh yeah, I mean, I just I I don't get it.

[32:04] Joe Carroll: I mean I get it, but I'm just not it's not for me.

[32:04] Dan Tracy: Not for me.

[32:09] Joe Carroll: Very um, moving right along. Music Man takes it.

[32:12] Dan Tracy: Alright, we got carousel against my fair lady.

[32:17] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[32:22] Dan Tracy: Never been a huge My Fair Lady fan.

[32:24] Joe Carroll: I gotta go with Carousel.

[32:26] Dan Tracy: Same.

[32:26] Joe Carroll: I gotta go with I know it's not a it's such a flawed show, and they both are.

[32:32] Dan Tracy: And I I think that they could have fucking Jack O'Brien love the man to death, but he could have saved Carousel that recent revival, and he didn't.

[32:43] Joe Carroll: And I've gone on about that on this show before, but you know, the bench sequence in Carousel is possibly the greatest sequence in musical theater full stop.

[32:55] Dan Tracy: Right.

[32:55] Joe Carroll: So I I got you know, you gotta give credit.

[32:59] Dan Tracy: Totally.

[32:59] Joe Carroll: And now Dan and I are gonna do the entire bench scene from beginning to end right now. Ready?

[33:03] Dan Tracy: I'll be Julie Jordan.

[33:09] Joe Carroll: I would be so impressed if you could do everything.

[33:11] Dan Tracy: I'm trying to think too. I did in college. Probably could.

[33:14] Joe Carroll: Uh yeah, I'm almost positive that's you're scared of me.

[33:21] Dan Tracy: Ain't you scared of me?

[33:24] Joe Carroll: No.

[33:27] Dan Tracy: Do you want to know what the wish I could do for that one?

[33:30] Joe Carroll: I don't have any money, and I did have if I did have money, and it's nothing.

[33:33] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I can't, I don't know it.

[33:34] Joe Carroll: But can I give it to you?

[33:40] Dan Tracy: Yeah, that's it.

[33:42] Joe Carroll: Anyway, what did the people say? Did the people say my fair lady?

[33:44] Dan Tracy: We did.

[33:45] Joe Carroll: And almost by a lot more, surprisingly.

[33:49] Dan Tracy: It was like uh it was like four or five votes above.

[33:53] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[33:54] Dan Tracy: Well, sorry, folks.

[33:57] Joe Carroll: Or you don't care as well.

[33:57] Dan Tracy: I just carousel.

[34:00] Joe Carroll: No, we win.

[34:01] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[34:02] Joe Carroll: See ya.

[34:03] Dan Tracy: Two to one.

[34:03] Joe Carroll: Two to one.

[34:03] Dan Tracy: It's just I I love carousel.

[34:10] Joe Carroll: What keys?

[34:11] Dan Tracy: It's just something that you had to go.

[34:13] Joe Carroll: So it's just a literal different song.

[34:15] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah.

[34:16] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[34:17] Dan Tracy: Not not great.

[34:19] Joe Carroll: Well, maybe we do we we do need to we need to trigger your stuff.

[34:22] Dan Tracy: Like Steven Pasquale, yeah, to save us.

[34:25] Joe Carroll: Oh man, this is like I probably shouldn't say this on live TV, but um uh when so Laura Osnes and and Steve Pasquale did that rip revival of carousel at the lyric opera in Chicago.

[34:38] Dan Tracy: They were trying to revive that around the same time as they did uh the Jack O'Brien production.

[34:43] Joe Carroll: And then we were doing bandstand together and Laura had a bootleg of Steve Pasquale's last soliloquy from the wings.

[34:51] Dan Tracy: Bro.

[35:11] Joe Carroll: Oh no.

[35:13] Dan Tracy: Oh no.

[35:15] Joe Carroll: I don't I don't get the pipes on that guy.

[35:17] Dan Tracy: I just wet your shorts, Joe.

[35:19] Joe Carroll: I don't need let's move on.

[35:21] Dan Tracy: Um like just if you don't know, like just wherever whatever you're doing, stop listening to us and turn on the bridges in Madison County for this album.

[35:33] Joe Carroll: And then listen to that and then come back to us.

[35:37] Dan Tracy: But that's actually now that we say it, the Laura Osnes and Stephen Pasquale have a full bench scene online.

[35:46] Joe Carroll: They do.

[35:46] Dan Tracy: They do.

[35:47] Joe Carroll: There we go.

[35:48] Dan Tracy: You're starting to tell me a story about the girl at Coney Island.

[35:53] Joe Carroll: Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

[35:55] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[35:56] Joe Carroll: Right.

[35:57] Dan Tracy: Say, tell me something.

[35:58] Joe Carroll: Ain't you scared of me?

[36:02] Dan Tracy: After what that's impression.

[36:06] Joe Carroll: After what that cop said.

[36:08] Dan Tracy: What's your name?

[36:09] Joe Carroll: Julie?

[36:09] Dan Tracy: Julie something.

[36:10] Joe Carroll: I think you got like dentures in.

[36:11] Dan Tracy: Julie Jordan.

[36:12] Joe Carroll: Julie Jordan.

[36:17] Dan Tracy: You're a queer one, Julie Jordan.

[36:22] Joe Carroll: Excellent.

[36:24] Dan Tracy: This is awesome.

[36:25] Joe Carroll: Alright.

[36:26] Dan Tracy: Next up.

[36:27] Joe Carroll: Here we go.

[36:28] Dan Tracy: Hello, Dolly.

[36:28] Joe Carroll: We have to drop this in.

[36:29] Dan Tracy: This is going in the chat.

[36:31] Joe Carroll: Whoever does this edit has to fucking put this part of this in there.

[36:34] Dan Tracy: Great.

[36:35] Joe Carroll: Uh next up, hello.

[36:40] Dan Tracy: Oh, this is the bench scene.

[36:41] Joe Carroll: Sorry. I gotta check it out.

[36:43] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[36:44] Joe Carroll: Um alright, hello, Dolly, Oklahoma.

[36:48] Dan Tracy: Say.

[36:51] Joe Carroll: Rest of the episode, just like that, Dan.

[36:54] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[36:54] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[36:55] Dan Tracy: I'm just gonna do my Stephen Pasquale impression for the rest of the episode.

[37:00] Joe Carroll: Okay, Joe, let's hear it.

[37:02] Dan Tracy: Okay, alright. This is a hard matchup for me because HELLO DOLLY should have been in the dance show category.

[37:11] Joe Carroll: Uh no.

[37:13] Dan Tracy: Disagree.

[37:14] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[37:16] Dan Tracy: Definitely disagree.

[37:17] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[37:18] Dan Tracy: Um you think HELLO DOLLY is a dance show?

[37:20] Joe Carroll: No, it's not.

[37:21] Dan Tracy: It's not like a dance show.

[37:22] Joe Carroll: You just don't like HELLO DOLLY.

[37:23] Dan Tracy: That's right.

[37:24] Joe Carroll: You just hate HELLO DOLLY.

[37:25] Dan Tracy: Correct.

[37:26] Joe Carroll: Um, I like Barbara Streisand and HELLO DOLLY, and I don't like HELLO DOLLY.

[37:31] Dan Tracy: How's that?

[37:32] Joe Carroll: Alright.

[37:33] Dan Tracy: That it's we're we're everything everything is allowed.

[37:37] Joe Carroll: You know?

[37:37] Dan Tracy: It's like I pick Oklahoma.

[37:39] Joe Carroll: I get that.

[37:39] Dan Tracy: Hand over fist because it is the first.

[37:42] Joe Carroll: Uh it is the first musical.

[37:45] Dan Tracy: Yep.

[37:45] Joe Carroll: So like Oklahoma, but you know.

[37:49] Dan Tracy: We don't have we don't even I don't even like Oklahoma, and I'm gonna pick it over HELLO DOLLY.

[37:54] Joe Carroll: I despise HELLO DOLLY that much.

[37:56] Dan Tracy: That's real.

[37:56] Joe Carroll: That's how much I hate HELLO DOLLY that I'm gonna pick a show I don't even like.

[38:01] Dan Tracy: That's how much I hate HELLO DOLLY, and I hate you.

[38:03] Joe Carroll: That's right, Joe.

[38:03] Dan Tracy: That's how much I hate.

[38:04] Joe Carroll: That's how bad your taste is, Joe.

[38:06] Dan Tracy: This is what the people want.

[38:08] Joe Carroll: That's how bad my taste is in best friends.

[38:09] Dan Tracy: That's right.

[38:12] Joe Carroll: My taste in friends is so bad.

[38:13] Dan Tracy: That's right.

[38:17] Joe Carroll: Next.

[38:18] Dan Tracy: Oh, God.

[38:19] Joe Carroll: Um, yeah, I mean, Oklahoma was the first.

[38:21] Dan Tracy: We have no art form.

[38:23] Joe Carroll: I think that the the revival, the recent most recent revival and the Hugh Jackman production at the National are like what shedding light on what Oklahoma really is.

[38:32] Dan Tracy: So if you don't know those productions, like Oklahoma is dark.

[38:37] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[38:38] Dan Tracy: You know what I mean?

[38:38] Joe Carroll: Like, Oklahoma's not just like, oh, okay, L hey, like everything, you know, I'm just the girl who can't say no. It's like, no, this is about a town who fucking murders a guy.

[38:46] Joe Carroll: That's right. You know, and covers it up. Right. And they just made there's a documentary about that. There's like some that that like just happened a few years ago in some like town. They made a documentary about it for Sundance channel.

[38:58] Dan Tracy: Oh wow. Have you seen the ads for this? That like that like there was like this bully in the town, and they killed him and covered it up. Like it's kind of timely.

[39:08] Joe Carroll: Anyway. What?

[39:09] Dan Tracy: Yeah. And also, people will say we're in love. It's a great one.

[39:13] Joe Carroll: True, true, true.

[39:15] Dan Tracy: Okay. Alright, moving on to dance.

[39:17] Joe Carroll: I'm good. We gotta move more quickly here, boys.

[39:19] Dan Tracy: Alright. This one's gonna be long. Uh dance. Number one, we got West Side Story and 42nd Street.

[39:21] Joe Carroll: West Side.

[39:29] Dan Tracy: Well by a mile. Not even close. Big time.

[39:38] Joe Carroll: Next up, we got now. Dan's gonna sing Maria.

[39:39] Dan Tracy: Dan's gonna sing Maria from top to bottom. Go.

[39:56] Joe Carroll: Try to sing Maria.

[39:58] Dan Tracy: Well out in your drum. Trying to sing.

[40:02] Joe Carroll: Did you hear that microaggression, Matt?

[40:03] Matthew Mucha: Yeah.

[40:04] Joe Carroll: Did you hear him say that?

[40:06] Dan Tracy: To sing.

[40:07] Joe Carroll: Trying to sing Maria.

[40:09] Dan Tracy: I feel like I didn't say this. Did I say that?

[40:11] Joe Carroll: I think I said from the mic.

[40:15] Dan Tracy: Trying to sing.

[40:17] Joe Carroll: Oh.

[40:17] Dan Tracy: Shots fired early on.

[40:20] Joe Carroll: Sorry?

[40:21] Dan Tracy: This is what I deal with. This is why.

[40:24] Joe Carroll: This is why. You're both great.

[40:27] Dan Tracy: This is you're both pretty.

[40:28] Joe Carroll: You're both pretty.

[40:30] Dan Tracy: Newsies in American in Paris. The next set category. The 14 seed newsies versus an American in Paris.

[40:37] Joe Carroll: Um God, I mean, I love me some newsies, but American in Paris is so good. You know what's cool about American in Paris is that.

[40:49] Dan Tracy: And here's a really hot take. I might actually go for it.

[40:53] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[40:54] Dan Tracy: Because obviously one of my favorite shows, and I wanted to play Jack Kelly for the longest time. And at the end, and I saw it, it was great. Yeah, it was fun. Um, and hard and and great and a great show.

[41:06] Joe Carroll: But I think if we look not like at the shows themselves, but at the Broadway productions, I thought there was something that happened with Newsies on Broadway, which was like, oh, here we are at a So You Think You Can Dance concert.

[41:18] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[41:19] Joe Carroll: Here we are, like, and the choreography is spectacle. And American in Paris, the choreography was story. And that's awesome.

[41:27] Dan Tracy: And that doesn't happen all the time. A lot of times dance is spectacle. And in American in Paris, dance was when they couldn't express themselves, they sung. And when they couldn't sing, they danced. It was awesome.

[41:44] Joe Carroll: Hmm.

[41:45] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[41:46] Joe Carroll: Yeah. And also, I mean, we may be we may be talking ourselves into American in Paris.

[41:52] Dan Tracy: Because I went into this saying newsies. Because I love news. Like newsies is just I mean the score, like, you know, talk about something you sing driving on the highway. Perfect perfect script, perfect score, super funny. Lots of twists and turns. Bad guy, uh you know, underdog wins in the end.

[42:09] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[42:10] Dan Tracy: I don't know. I guess it's gotta be newsies. That was hard. American in Paris, though, like, I am such a huge Brandon Uranowitz fan.

[42:18] Joe Carroll: He's awesome.

[42:19] Dan Tracy: I saw that dude for the first time. I like I I just discovered him from myself in American in Paris when I saw that show, and I was like, who is this guy? This guy is a frickin' star. And everything, you know, anytime he gets cast in anything, I'm just huge, huge fan.

[42:34] Joe Carroll: So I think it's gotta be newsies.

[42:37] Dan Tracy: But almost reluctantly so that a production American in Paris was so gorgeous. And Will Burton, friend of the pod, made his Broadway debut in that show, so we love that show.

[42:47] Joe Carroll: Anyway, what are the people?

[42:49] Dan Tracy: Uh people said newsies overwhelmingly. There's a lot of a lot of people. I mean, it's like it's there's a lot of social media love for newsies got like that cult following.

[43:02] Joe Carroll: Right.

[43:02] Dan Tracy: Yeah, right.

[43:03] Joe Carroll: Totally. Everybody went crazy.

[43:05] Dan Tracy: Um this is another one that we can just chorus line skills.

[43:14] Joe Carroll: You won't even hear me say the word of the second show.

[43:17] Dan Tracy: That's how little cat.

[43:23] Joe Carroll: Oh cats.

[43:24] Dan Tracy: Oh rats.

[43:26] Joe Carroll: Rats the musical.

[43:28] Dan Tracy: Rats the musical. Dan and I wrote a parody of Cats, the musical called Rats the Music. And then we found out that that was already played out in Hey Arnold.

[43:36] Joe Carroll: Really?

[43:37] Dan Tracy: Which is crazy. Like subliminally, we must have watched it when we were kids. And it planted a seed. We thought we were so yeah, we thought we were so clever this summer, like writing up this whole bit where a character is like performing rats.

[43:52] Joe Carroll: Oh, wait, I'm vaguely remembering that Hey Arnold episode.

[43:54] Dan Tracy: Now that you're talking about it, I can.

[43:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah, and then somebody like posted it and was like, this is how I feel about cats.

[44:01] Dan Tracy: And damn you, hey Arnold.

[44:05] Joe Carroll: Damn.

[44:06] Dan Tracy: Damn, we thought we were so smart.

[44:07] Joe Carroll: You gotta be out.

[44:10] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[44:11] Joe Carroll: Alright, what's next?

[44:11] Dan Tracy: Oh, we got our last one of this first matchup, and this is Billy Elliott and anything goes.

[44:20] Joe Carroll: I mean, they're almost like completely different.

[44:20] Dan Tracy: Completely different. Completely different. They're c they they're they're both dance shows. They both are incredibly dance forward and and you know, use dance in such an amazing way, but I mean this is tricky.

[44:37] Joe Carroll: I saw Tom Holland in Billy Elliott in London.

[44:42] Dan Tracy: That's like the same trip that I met Carrie St. Louis.

[44:45] Joe Carroll: Cool.

[44:47] Dan Tracy: And they were sitting behind us, the three Billys.

[44:51] Joe Carroll: Oh yeah.

[44:52] Dan Tracy: In the audience.

[44:55] Joe Carroll: That's awesome.

[44:56] Dan Tracy: And he was one of those kids, which is crazy.

[44:59] Joe Carroll: And um I was like, hey, you suck.

[45:05] Dan Tracy: Now he is the Spider-Man.

[45:08] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I know.

[45:10] Dan Tracy: Well, the story of how he got the Spider-Man too, I was just thinking about, which is crazy because like somebody dropped and then he auditioned and tested the next day and then was working the next week. Like it was was like one of those stories, Joe that we've been talking about where it's like Wow.

[45:24] Joe Carroll: I just hope someone drops out of a pilot, so like I can do that.

[45:27] Dan Tracy: Yes, um you just had that this week.

[45:29] Joe Carroll: Yeah, no, I that's like yeah.

[45:31] Dan Tracy: That's the best.

[45:32] Joe Carroll: That's the best. Like you get that audition, and they're like, We're we're we're really desperate to find someone. You're like, great.

[45:36] Dan Tracy: And you're like, I'm in.

[45:37] Joe Carroll: I would love to be your desperate children.

[45:40] Dan Tracy: I'm also desperate.

[45:42] Joe Carroll: Right, exactly. Because I'm also desperate.

[45:45] Dan Tracy: Uh okay, so my take here is is Billy Elliott. I think that that show does so much for what I think is kind of a tent pole of my uh inner workings as an artist, which is like trying to speak to toxic masculinity and be a voice for, you know, alternative representations of the male form, and I think Billy Elliott is the greatest representation of that in contemporary theater.

[46:17] Joe Carroll: And watching this young boy dance with his older self and the just like the beauty of that and have it not be something that you turn to your sixteen year old buddy and say, Oh, that's gay. You know, like we grew up in that toxic culture in locker rooms and all of that stuff.

[46:36] Dan Tracy: I just think that like I cried a lot watching Billy Elliott. And I don't think I knew at this at the time at 17 what that was all about, but having pieced it together now, I think like anything goes as an amazing show, and I've loved every version of it, and I did it in high school, and it's great, but it's just not the same. I gotta pick Billy Elliott.

[46:55] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[46:56] Dan Tracy: I mean, Dan, you that was super eloquent, and I agree with absolutely everything you said. I watched the movie in English class when a freshman year English English class.

[47:06] Joe Carroll: And I remember being so emotional watching it, and the lights turn on after the movie, and one of these stupid buddies, quote un air quotes, buddies of mine in English class turns to me and says exactly that.

[47:22] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[47:22] Joe Carroll: He's like, ugh, this is gay ballet.

[47:26] Dan Tracy: And it was like and then, you know, being like, but wait, I think I want to do what I think I want to do that.

[47:34] Joe Carroll: Right.

[47:35] Dan Tracy: And then like eight, you know, a year and a half later, I was taking ballet four times a week.

[47:42] Joe Carroll: And you know it is, I think it's I so, yeah, Billy Elliott, especially for what, you know, I don't know. Everything you just said. You said it m better than I could. That was awesome. Billy Elliott for the win.

[47:57] Joe Carroll: For the win.

[47:59] Dan Tracy: I think that we should I think w the what did the audience say?

[48:02] Joe Carroll: Ah Billy Elliott.

[48:03] Dan Tracy: I agree.

[48:04] Joe Carroll: Good.

[48:05] Dan Tracy: I think that we should we should call it here.

[48:08] Joe Carroll: I think we should I think we should go over the yep.

[48:11] Dan Tracy: Go back over Google.

[48:13] Joe Carroll: Yep. We'll we'll read out our eight teams. We can release this and then we can uh we can do some picks of this and then we can do votes based on that we'll talk we'll sidebar about this and we'll figure out for next week but then next week we'll get to the final four and then the final four will be decided by the audience and we can fight about who the ultimate winner is.

[48:40] Dan Tracy: I love I love it.

[48:42] Joe Carroll: So so going back over the the winners so far in the pop rock category we had legally blonde rent here let's go who was legally blonde over Mamma Mia.

[48:52] Dan Tracy: Yep.

[48:52] Joe Carroll: Was rent over AMERICAN IDIOT hair over JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR and SPRING AWAKENING over Next to Norway.

[49:00] Dan Tracy: Absolute disaster that that is a travesty.

[49:02] Joe Carroll: Which w which was an upset.

[49:03] Dan Tracy: That's a travesty in the minds yeah.

[49:05] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[49:06] Dan Tracy: I'm disgusted.

[49:07] Joe Carroll: I know.

[49:08] Dan Tracy: And then we had in the contemporary category, we had ragtime over company.

[49:12] Joe Carroll: Again, two to uh Dan's Dan's set.

[49:16] Dan Tracy: That one's a little bit better.

[49:17] Joe Carroll: Yeah, we had Hamilton over Wicked.

[49:20] Dan Tracy: We had Waitress Overcome from Away.

[49:22] Joe Carroll: We had Le Miz by a Landslide over Phantom.

[49:26] Dan Tracy: Up in the Golden Age category, we had Fiddler over Sound of Music.

[49:30] Joe Carroll: We had Music Man over Gypsy.

[49:32] Dan Tracy: We had Carousel over My Fair Lady.

[49:34] Joe Carroll: Sorry, audience.

[49:36] Dan Tracy: Sorry, audience. We still love you guys.

[49:38] Joe Carroll: We had Oklahoma over HELLO DOLLY.

[49:40] Dan Tracy: West Side's story over 42nd Street.

[49:43] Joe Carroll: Newsies over an American in Paris.

[49:45] Dan Tracy: Chorus Line over a show that has something to do with animals with Auls.

[49:53] Joe Carroll: And then Billy Elliott over anything else.

[49:58] Dan Tracy: Oh my god, this was so much fun.

[50:00] Joe Carroll: That's too funny.

[50:00] Dan Tracy: That's awesome.

[50:01] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[50:02] Dan Tracy: That's so good.

[50:03] Joe Carroll: So uh yeah, stay tuned for next week when we'll go through the Elite Eight and uh we'll see how many live elites we lose.

[50:12] Dan Tracy: Matt, thank you so much for moderating this nonsense.

[50:15] Matthew Mucha: Of course.

[50:16] Dan Tracy: Happy to be here. Thank you for putting up with us.

[50:19] Joe Carroll: And and uh ladies and gentlemen of the of the listening world, the more ads you buy and the more t shirts you buy, the more we can pay Matt.

[50:27] Dan Tracy: So more from Matt.

[50:32] Joe Carroll: Yes.

[50:33] Dan Tracy: That's what it is.

[50:35] Joe Carroll: So next week we'll be back for the Elite Eight games, and then uh we promise we'll be back with some interview guests.

[50:42] Dan Tracy: We got some great guests lined up very soon.

[50:44] Joe Carroll: So stick with us.

[50:48] Dan Tracy: Thank you for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[50:51] Joe Carroll: We are now part of the Broadway Podcast Network.

[50:54] Dan Tracy: Woo!

[50:55] Joe Carroll: We are hosted by Dan Tracy.

[50:57] Dan Tracy: That's you.

[50:57] Joe Carroll: And Joe Carroll.

[50:58] Dan Tracy: That's me.

[50:59] Joe Carroll: We're produced by Ryan Kincaid, and Matthew Mucha is the social content manager.

[51:03] Dan Tracy: You can find us on Instagram at Guys Who Like Musicals, on Twitter at MusicalGuys, or the old fashioned way at www.guyslikemusicals.com.

[51:10] Joe Carroll: If you'd like a chance to be featured on the Ask the Guys segment of our show, please call 203-900-7990 and leave a message with your question.

[51:20] Dan Tracy: As always, thanks for listening.