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[0:00] Joel Crump: Hey you guys, welcome back to The Weekly Dose of Joel. Today I have a very special conversation with Grammy and Tony Award nominee AnnMarie Milazzo, who recently released *The Shape of Things: Songs From Joy The Musical*, a concept album inspired by *Joy*.

[0:15] Joel Crump: AnnMarie has worked on Broadway shows like *A Beautiful Noise, The Neil Diamond Musical*, *Almost Famous*, *1776*, *Once on This Island*, *Spring Awakening*, *Finding Neverland*, *If/Then*, and *Next to Normal*. Join me today as AnnMarie unpacks the way she wrote *Joy The Musical* and also explains the interesting way that she processes and writes music. So without further ado, let's get on to this week's special episode of The Weekly Dose of Joel.

[0:41] Joel Crump: Hey you guys, today I am here with AnnMarie Milazzo, and we are talking all about the new album, *Joy*, and we're gonna be talking about *Joy The Musical*, the musical that she's been working on. AnnMarie, how are you today?

[0:54] AnnMarie Milazzo: Oh, I'm amazing. Thank you for this interview. So amazing.

[0:59] Joel Crump: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when learning about your story and the way that you work and you write, I was completely amazed. So to start off, I mean, talk to me about the unique way that you experience music. Explain to the listeners how you experience and write music.

[1:15] AnnMarie Milazzo: I experience music, I think, if I may say, I think the way everybody does. Just as much as you hear music, I feel like people can see music and experience music with a lot of the senses. And I think I tap into those senses when listening and when writing music.

[1:39] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[1:40] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah, so I mean when I was reading, you do you see colors when writing and listening?

[1:46] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah, and it's nothing, it's not like I say, it's not special because I think I discovered it when just assuming that everybody did. But when I say, if I'm teaching something and I say I need it to sound like Skittles, everybody knows what that means. So I do believe everybody can tap into that as well because if there's an understanding there visually, that music has a visual as well as you can hear it, you can see it. And so when you describe music, like I always use this thing like a pipe cleaner or a wire hanger. Everyone knows what that would sound like. So yeah, I use visuals along with other things.

[2:33] Joel Crump: I love that. So talk to me about *Joy*, *Joy The Musical*. This album just came out, and I've actually been following *Joy* for a moment now. I remember when it did its out-of-town tryout with Earth Henningson, and now you know it's still in the works. Talk to me all about *Joy*.

[2:48] AnnMarie Milazzo: Um, I fell in love. *Joy* is a real person. She invented a miracle mop. Um, and I really related to her story. She was living on Long Island, she was broke. Um, she had a lot of challenges, a lot of struggles, like financial struggles, family struggles. And she was always an inventor. And she invented her way out of these struggles. I mean, she has more, you know, like everyone else, it didn't solve all the problems. But what she did is she took an idea and followed through with it.

[3:25] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah. And eventually, and she invented this thing called the miracle mop, and it's a mop that people loved, and she went on the Home Shopping Network, and she has created an empire of inventions from this idea. And what I loved about it was like following through on something for me was a challenge, like in my life, and just the fact that she did that inspired me to write her story. I saw the movie with Jennifer Lawrence, I loved it, but I read her book, and I saw my own family in her family. I saw my own struggles and her struggles, and I just, and her story sang, and I wanted to musicalize it. And I just, I fell in love with her.

[4:11] Joel Crump: That's wonderful. Talk to me about the concept album, what this album is, and you know, what fans can expect when listening to the album.

[4:21] AnnMarie Milazzo: Um, because I'm a singer-songwriter, that's the other half of my brain. I love performing. When I was writing the show, and when I write other shows, I sing them.

[4:34] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah. And you know, it doesn't ever sound like it sounds like in the show because you're writing the song and you're singing it, and I, you know, do the vocal design and whatever, I do little tracks. And so it was just an opportunity for me to actually go into the studio with a bunch of my friends and rehearse and just say, what do we want these songs to sound like as a concept record? And it was just, um, so I, it could be in my voice before it goes to the theater and it becomes hugely theatrical and sounds different and more amazing, but um, it was just a chance for me to just get back to my roots and to the singer-songwriter thing. And I loved it. I loved it.

[5:13] Joel Crump: That's so cool. That's so wonderful. I mean, the title of the album is *The Shape of Things*. You know, that title suggests transformation and discovery. What emotions do you hope that the listeners will take away from the album?

[5:30] AnnMarie Milazzo: I guess I hope that they could listen to the words and the dramaturgy of the melody and kind of get inside of the songs and recognize and see themselves in the songs, or um, something wider and hopefully sing along with them and make up their own story to those songs because they know the story of *Joy*. You know, like when you're, you know, you have your favorite album, your listener album, you create your own movie to the album.

[5:59] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah, yeah when there's nothing else attached, and which is why a lot of you go see your favorite bands and you love the songs that they sing, but like you, your memories are attached to those songs. Like, oh, this is my first kiss, oh I remember this drive, or I remember, and so I think that is the power of music. And when you listen to a concept record, there is a theme you can, and but you can create your own story to the record, yeah.

[6:24] Joel Crump: Do you have a favorite track on the record, or like is there a track that brings back a certain memory, a certain moment in this, you know, journey for you so far with *Joy* that makes you think, oh my gosh, this is something that I'll always love and cherish?

[6:40] AnnMarie Milazzo: I think it was, I think it's the finale, it's *Goal Maker Miracle*. I had a struggle writing that song because it was the finale of the show. I really did need a miracle. And it kind of, you know, it was like one of those days you're like, oh god, nothing is happening, and then finally you, you know, you get that one chord or that one hook, and you're like, wow, and you start to get excited about what you're writing, and it just kind of flows out, it flows, and you're like, it just felt so accomplished, and I loved singing the song, and I actually love doing the vocal design on that song. And it is important, it's an important song to me because I think every day we challenge ourselves to go out and make miracles of our own. Little, small, whatever.

[7:27] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah, you mentioned it doesn't have to be music, you know, just any miracle. Exactly cooking a great dinner. It's a miracle. Holding the door for 10 people in one day. It's a miracle.

[7:38] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[7:38] AnnMarie Milazzo: So I challenge everybody to go out and make miracles of their own.

[7:43] Joel Crump: Yeah. I mean, you mentioned vocal design. You've done some vocal design for a lot of Broadway shows. Some of my favorites including *A Beautiful Noise* and *Once on This Island*, *Almost Famous*, which I loved. I mean, talk to me about what it's like being a vocal designer for Broadway.

[8:01] AnnMarie Milazzo: I have no complaints. It is so much fun. I get to be in rooms with the best, most funnest people. Can I say funnest? I'm going to people on the planet and literally play and change. And you know when we're creating the stuff, you know every, I like to think of shows having a thumbprint. Like what is the thumbprint of this show? What does a show need to sound like? How many colors on the toolbox do I have? What's the cast size? Is it six? Is it 22? Is it 26? Is it 10? What colors do I have? And you know, it's almost easier when it's a bigger cast because you have a lot of colors to play with, but the challenging ones are like the 10 people or like the six people like, all right you got six colors, go.

[8:46] AnnMarie Milazzo: And it is a fun ride to see what you can do with human beings and what sounds you can create with humans. Um and you do, I do it. I like to work on my feet and I like to change in the room.

[8:59] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[9:00] AnnMarie Milazzo: Because you know, it could, you're, it's in your head, it's people put it on paper, but you don't know what the person sounds like. You don't know them, you don't know the cast before you do it. Um you meet the cast. It's kind of like naming your baby before you meet the baby. Like, oh, I thought you were James, but you're not a James, you're I don't know, a Dan.

[9:19] Joel Crump: Right, right.

[9:21] AnnMarie Milazzo: So then you have to change it because you're like, oh, these are the Tamars in the room, these are the people, and you get to go, Oh, that do this, and you get to create with the people. It's very collaborative.

[9:34] Joel Crump: We'll be right back to this episode of The Weekly Dose of Joel with AnnMarie Milazzo after this quick break.

[9:41] Joel Crump: Welcome back. Now let's continue this special episode of The Weekly Dose of Joel with AnnMarie Milazzo.

[9:47] Joel Crump: Okay. But I when I'm talking to creatives, I like looking at all of their Broadway credits, and I just asked them, I'm gonna go down the list. What is a favorite memory or favorite song? Or I mean, in your case, a favorite maybe change you made. That's something you'll always remember. Do you want to, you want to go for it?

[10:04] AnnMarie Milazzo: That was a challenge.

[10:06] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[10:07] AnnMarie Milazzo: Because you did orchestrations, you did the orchestrations for this revival.

[10:11] AnnMarie Milazzo: They were both, yeah. So I, they were, they're calling orchestrations. I co-orchestrated with Michael Starobin, but we had four people in the band, and we had 16 people in the cast, and I had two swings. So, you know, the whole concept was the storm comes, there's no electricity. Go make music, you know.

[10:30] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah, so really wanted to get grassroots, and I remember when Michael and Art and I were talking about it. We originally wanted to do this in a parking lot. Like, what would you know? Wow, this could be really cool. We would, you know, Instagram people like, meet us at the park. We're gonna do *Once on This Island*, and we were gonna have the actors just come and sit and play drums and do this whole show.

[10:56] AnnMarie Milazzo: So there wasn't, there was gonna be no instruments. So originally it was created um with no instruments, so I did it all vocally, and it was wow, it was super challenging because I guess I had to discover a lot of things. Uh vocal if people were gonna get tired because they're singing and then they're singing under like creating kind of a language of sound.

[11:20] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah. And then when they pulled out if they had solo lines or solos, like so they're constantly singing for two hours. Is that possible? Is it possible? Is it possible eight shows a week? When does a voice get tired? When does a voice need a break? Right. How, what's a bird sound like on a voice? You know, and go go go, you know, that's a bird. Oh my god, that's a bird, you know.

[11:42] AnnMarie Milazzo: And I remember going, go, go, go. Wow, that's, that's a bird. It's a tiny little bird, and we'll start with birds and birds are flutes, and you know, your mind just goes crazy. And then what language can you create that doesn't step on lyrics if you're going and someone singing an E, you know, is that, you know, just mapping out this whole thing.

[12:08] AnnMarie Milazzo: Oh my, it was super fun, but I will say this: I never want to do it again because never. I did it. I'm so glad I did it. It was so much work, and I loved it, but I don't think I would do it again.

[12:24] Joel Crump: It must have been a ton of work, and I mean, it did work out for you because you got a Tony nomination and that was cool. And a Grammy nomination too, correct?

[12:32] AnnMarie Milazzo: Uh, my Grammy was for a band I'm in called the East Village Opera Company. That was a... but actually, maybe I don't know. Did the record get a Grammy? I'm not sure.

[12:41] Joel Crump: Yeah, but I mean, let's... I'm not sure. That's it.

[12:46] AnnMarie Milazzo: Joel, I really don't know.

[12:47] Joel Crump: I know, neither do I. I'll have to check on that later on. But let's look back to Joy. I mean, someone that I've always loved is Ken Davenport, who's writing the book with you. And he's always produced such amazing shows. But now we really get to see his text work too. What is it like working with him, collaborating with him for this musical?

[13:06] AnnMarie Milazzo: Ken is amazing. I met Ken doing the Deaf West Spring Awakening. And I didn't talk to him a lot, but I remember we would kind of, you know, say hi, hi, hi. And then I re-met him doing Once on This Island because he produced both. And we went to dinner one day on Once on This Island. And he said, "Do you write music?" And I go, "Actually, that's what I do. I write music and lyrics. That's actually what I do." And he said, "Would you want to throw your hat in the ring for a musical? And you know, I'll do it with me." And I said, "Yeah." And he goes, and he listed off a whole bunch of titles and he said, "Joy." And I said, "Joy. I love the name." I didn't know what it was at first. I was like, "I love it's Joy.

It's Joy. What's Joy?" And he's like, "Oh, Joy Mangano." I was like, "Oh my God, Miracle Mop. My mother had one." And I ran out, I read her book, and I was like, "Yeah, I want to throw my hat in the ring." And I did. And I guess one. And we started working together in 2020. And I will say this: we have grown as a... you know, you have to get used to working with people. I didn't know him as a writer. I only knew him as a producer. And I actually didn't know him, know him because, you know, you don't have time to like know everyone on kind of an intimate level, you know, a really heart intimate level.

[14:27] Joel Crump: Right.

[14:27] AnnMarie Milazzo: And we became fast friends, great collaborators, and learned to really listen to each other and learn how to write together. It took a year to kind of get into a groove. And now we're like, "What else? Like, what's next? Let's write. Let's, you know, once the show happens, like I would love to continue working with him. I love him. He's a great guy and a wonderful writer and thoughtful.

[14:54] Joel Crump: Yeah, he's very thoughtful and you know him.

[14:56] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah, he's great. I mean, I was doing a little digging and I'm not sure how much you can tell me, but I know that Joy was just in the works again. I mean, what can we expect next from Joy?

[15:09] AnnMarie Milazzo: Um, I... well, we can expect Joy to continue. Um, not too far off in the distant future. I can say that.

[15:25] Joel Crump: I love it.

[15:26] AnnMarie Milazzo: I can say that. I just said that.

[15:27] Joel Crump: Yeah, and I saw that.

[15:28] AnnMarie Milazzo: We said it. We said it right here with Lisa Joel. It's gonna be in the New York City area soon.

[15:35] Joel Crump: Yes. I'm very excited. I mean, from concept albums to broader revivals to everything you do. I mean, in front of a band, you're working on this new musical, you do so much. What do you hope your legacy will be? What projects excite you moving forward?

[15:50] AnnMarie Milazzo: My legacy, I hope, would be kindness. I hope that people would go, "She was nice," you know, like a nice person in the business, and hopefully helping as many people as I can. Yes. Um, reaching back, I think is really important. Um, my favorite show hopefully is the next show I'm going to write. Um, and I hope to be able to do this until the day I drop out doing this. I don't want to do anything else. I love storytelling, and I love every area of storytelling: writing books, writing lyrics, doing music, performing. I think when you really, you know, I started out as a performer and I have such an appreciation and respect because I did it. I know how hard it is. You know, Wednesday matinee, it's snowing, you're freezing, you're sick, you don't want to go on, you go on.

You can't take that lightly. And or when people come into audition, I think somebody maybe got a babysitter, somebody learned this material, memorized it, came in, went came into the city, maybe got a train, maybe bought a suit, came in for 16 bars or a monologue. It's like you will sit there and you will give them your full attention because it's important.

[17:09] Joel Crump: Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

[17:11] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah, absolutely. I... that's what I would hope my legacy would be.

[17:15] Joel Crump: Yeah, and you know, I always say this: kindness is free. It takes nothing to be kind. And so if you can give that little bit every day to whomever it may be, it just... it does a lot, and it says a lot about who you are as a person, too, I think.

[17:31] AnnMarie Milazzo: I hope I try to stay off the internet. I don't have Instagram or Facebook because my feelings get hurt easily, so I can't live there, but I can live with real people in real time.

[17:48] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[17:48] AnnMarie Milazzo: And create real music and real projects and real words. Um, hopefully kindly and thoughtfully. Um, kind of like what you do. You interview people. I mean, that's so generous and wonderful.

[18:05] Joel Crump: It's the best, and I get to meet amazing people like you, hear amazing stories like yours. I mean, it's just... it's wonderful.

[18:13] AnnMarie Milazzo: So before I let you go, let's play a quick game. This is Broadway time rapid fire questions.

[18:20] Joel Crump: Okay.

[18:20] AnnMarie Milazzo: So this is some rapid fire questions to see what you love about Broadway. What do you love in general? What do you love about Broadway?

[18:27] Joel Crump: Okay. Favorite Broadway show?

[18:31] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yes. Right now that I just saw, my favorite... it's... I've seen them all, and I think I was... I loved maybe Happy Ending. Yeah. I love Gypsy. Um, I love... oh, I don't know how I say... um, I guess when I saw Audra's roses turn, I almost melted into the floor. I will say that.

[18:54] Joel Crump: And I'd seen so many, and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to see Gypsy." And I was like grabbed by the throat, thrown on the floor. I couldn't breathe. I don't even understand her performance. So I have to shout that out because if you see anything, my God, that performance changed my life.

[19:15] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah.

[19:16] Joel Crump: This year.

[19:17] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah, I mean, a revival you would love to...

[19:20] Joel Crump: I saw it and oh my gosh.

[19:22] AnnMarie Milazzo: My gosh. Isn't she amazing?

[19:24] Joel Crump: I don't know the word.

[19:26] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah.

[19:27] Joel Crump: There is no word.

[19:28] AnnMarie Milazzo: She was born to play Mama Rose. And hopefully many, many more because that woman can perform.

[19:35] Joel Crump: Absolutely.

[19:39] AnnMarie Milazzo: A show you would love to revive?

[19:42] Joel Crump: Sound of Music.

[19:43] AnnMarie Milazzo: Funniest moment backstage?

[19:48] Joel Crump: Uh, does it have to be in New York?

[19:51] AnnMarie Milazzo: It could be anywhere.

[19:52] AnnMarie Milazzo: Oh, I was in Beijing and there was a sign in English saying, "Be careful, the stage is running away." I don't know. That was funny to me.

[20:00] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[20:00] AnnMarie Milazzo: Pre-opening night ritual?

[20:04] Joel Crump: Um, pre-opening night ritual.

[20:06] AnnMarie Milazzo: Uh, I don't... I don't think I have one.

[20:11] Joel Crump: Just crossing your fingers for those good reviews, I guess.

[20:14] AnnMarie Milazzo: Oh no, I don't read them.

[20:15] Joel Crump: Smart.

[20:16] AnnMarie Milazzo: Are you kidding? No, I can't read them. Oh my God. Like, okay, the show's up and ready. Let's write something else. No, I can't. I'm so... like, I'm too sensitive. I can't do it.

[20:27] Joel Crump: I get it. I get it. I get it.

[20:29] AnnMarie Milazzo: Um, who inspires you the most in the theater world?

[20:29] Joel Crump: The most.

[20:33] AnnMarie Milazzo: There's too many to say, but I will say um, composers that just are out there writing musicals, uh, lyricists who are out there writing musicals, and book writers that are writing musicals, but it is so hard to do, and it is a labor of love. And I have my favorites: Jason Robert Brown, Tom Kitt, like Tom Kitt. Um, like I'm blanking, but anyone who's doing it right now, I applaud you. Stephen Schwartz, like, you know, just... and the person I haven't met yet who's writing a musical, who's just sitting there at their chair and writing it and knowing one day it's going to be seen. Broadway isn't the be-all and end-all. I mean, there's theater all over the world. Um, I guess that inspires me the most, just people actually doing it.

[21:26] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[21:26] AnnMarie Milazzo: Dream Broadway collaborator?

[21:30] Joel Crump: My dream Broadway collaborator would be uh, Tom Kitt.

[21:37] AnnMarie Milazzo: Favorite place to relax in New York?

[21:40] Joel Crump: That's yards.

[21:41] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah. I love them all. I go to the mall. I love it. I mean, we all need a mall break sometimes, I think.

[21:48] Joel Crump: I... well, I went when COVID was happening, that mall had just opened, and this is why. And this 10th Avenue was like deserted, and I was like... but when things started opening, that mall was my mall. I'd be the only person in that mall. And people in the store, they would be standing there like working. And I would go there and I would walk, and that would be my steps.

[22:12] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yeah.

[22:12] Joel Crump: And I fell in love with that mall. I fell in... I'm like, I'm going to the mall.

[22:17] AnnMarie Milazzo: I love it.

[22:18] Joel Crump: And lastly, best piece of advice you've ever received?

[22:22] AnnMarie Milazzo: Keep just sit, no matter what, when you have nothing in you and you have no inspiration, you don't feel like doing it, but just sit down and work.

[22:33] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[22:34] AnnMarie Milazzo: Just do the work. It's... and it is work.

[22:36] Joel Crump: Yes.

[22:37] AnnMarie Milazzo: It's not magic. It's work. And I love it.

[22:41] Joel Crump: Well, AnnMarie, thank you so much for chatting with me.

[22:43] AnnMarie Milazzo: Well, thank you so much. This has been wonderful. You guys have to go out and listen to this album. I am so excited about what's next to come for Joy the Musical. And I mean, this project, it's all about the joy. It's all about the kindness. And just from this chat, I can't wait to finally be able to see the show when I get the chance to.

[22:56] AnnMarie Milazzo: I can't wait to see it, and I can't wait to give you a big hug. Can I say that? I hope I do.

[23:05] Joel Crump: Oh my gosh, listen, I'm a hugger. And so the moment I see you, we're going to have to... I'm gonna grab you, we're gonna hug.

[23:11] AnnMarie Milazzo: Yes, absolutely. Thank you for spending time with me.

[23:15] Joel Crump: Absolutely, thank you. It was such a joy, pun intended, to speak with AnnMarie Milazzo. I mean, right now in the world, I think we don't need anything else but a musical about joy. And clearly, this musical is going to bring so much heart and so much, you know, human dignity, and truly just be a joyful time. And you know, that's what we need right now. But I have to thank you for listening to this week's episode of The Weekly Dose of Joel. I know I've been gone for a little bit, but I am back. The spring season is buzzing, and get ready for weekly episodes with all of your favorite Broadway stars. I'll see you at the next one.