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[0:00] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Cats at Ashby. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have a bonus episode. As you all know by now, Cats the Jellicle Ball recently announced its upcoming closing. It's an extremely bittersweet moment, and it had me looking back at how incredible this whole run has been. And I was hoping to use this footage later, but now that the Jellicle Ball is closing, it feels like the perfect time to share it. A few months ago, on opening night of Cats the Jellicle Ball, before the gold carpet, I was lucky enough to be invited to a reunion brunch for what they called the Jellicle Tribe. It was a gathering of Cats alumni, mostly from the US National Tour and a few other productions, and a few people who've actually been on the podcast before.

And this was a get-together before many of them had even had a chance to see the Jellicle Ball and this new production. It was great to meet some of these people in person for the first time and get to sit down with them. And since I was invited, they asked if I wanted to film some. So I brought my camera with me and we just chatted. We talked through their time on the road, their anticipation for the Jellicle Ball, and obviously we had to weigh in on the ultimate question of who was the right Jellicle choice. So a quick disclaimer before we jump in. This is definitely pretty raw, fly-on-the-wall type of footage. I've cleaned up a little bit of it, but we were in the middle of a live crowded brunch venue.

There's a lot of background chatter, glasses clinking, people talking, and it's definitely not the studio quality that we usually put together here. But it's a really fun time capsule. It's an amazing look back at the excitement that they had before going to see the Jellicle Ball. And especially as we get ready to say goodbye to the show, it's something I felt like we needed to share. So ignore the background noise, maybe pretend you're having a mimosa with us, and enjoy this catch-up with the Jellicle tribe. So let's roll the tape.

[1:57] Natasha Davison: So let's talk about the Jellicle Ball. Are you going tonight? It's the first time or have you seen it?

[2:01] Holly Cruz: I have seen it.

[2:01] Natasha Davison: Okay, you saw it on Broadway or downtown?

[2:01] Holly Cruz: I did not see it downtown, but my daughter Alexis saw it and told me she just raved about it and how much she loved it. I'm like, well, that is really interesting. I'm interested. And then when I was first approached about it, I had this crazy idea. I thought, what if I reached out to all of the Cats alumni, which there are so many. It ran 18 years on Broadway. There were four tours, plus a Los Angeles company and a Canadian company. What if I just reached out to see if they want to participate, sort of as micro-investors, you know what I mean? And the response was huge. It was overwhelming. In fact, I had to turn many Cats away because we surpassed our goal by two times. And it's just been so fun to reconnect with all of the folks for whom Cats, the original version, was really pivotal for most of us and transformational. It was a huge hit in the 80s and 90s. It was Hamilton or Wicked of its day, a mega musical. For many of us, it was our very first show. So it was our big break and we were all young and frisky.

[3:12] Natasha Davison: What's the investor group called?

[3:19] Holly Cruz: The Jellicle Tribe.

[3:19] Natasha Davison: The Jellicle Tribe. We are the Jellicle Tribe. We're passing the baton from our era to this new group. And I say, baby Byrne, take it away. What did you think about seeing it, the reimagined production?

[3:34] Holly Cruz: I thought it was incredibly clever. You know, in terms of the context, the Jellicle Ball always was a gathering one night every year for the Jellicle Tribe. And so it really makes sense that it fits into the context of ballroom culture as well. And it's essentially poems about different aspects or personalities of cats and really people. And so I think it's amazing. I also loved how they really stayed true to the score, you know, aside from the rap, which I thought really worked for a couple of the numbers that they used it. But the dancing was incredible. It looked really difficult. I'm like, I can't do that. Different type of difficult dancing. But they were trained. I mean, I was seeing, we saw turns in Alessicon, Pirouettes, you know, and they're doing it in high heels, not only high heels, but like spike high heels.

[4:27] Natasha Davison: Yeah. I mean, like everybody.

[4:27] Holly Cruz: Yeah. So I was impressed. I was impressed.

[4:33] Natasha Davison: Okay. For this production, does your Jellicle choice change?

[4:38] Holly Cruz: Oh, for the end? I think we had talked about this before. No, it still makes sense to me that it would be Grizz. You know, she's the one that's looking for that spot. She's the one that needs it the most.

[4:50] Natasha Davison: Yeah. And she's earned her spot. She's earned it. And I think you have to earn it.

[4:55] Holly Cruz: Going to the Heaviside Layer.

[4:55] Natasha Davison: I agree. So who's your Jellicle choice and why?

[4:55] Holly Cruz: My Jellicle choice. You know what? I would have to go with Gus. Team Gus. He's a good guy. Yeah. He's ready to go. Because Grizzabella, she's got some time.

[5:08] Natasha Davison: Yeah. She's got some time left. Exactly. You know, she just came back for her second act.

[5:12] Holly Cruz: Yeah. Come hang with the family. Gus, he's doing his third act. He's ready to go. He's ready just to let it go and purr on into the Heaviside Layer.

[5:20] Natasha Davison: Yeah. So when you performed, who did you perform as?

[5:25] Holly Cruz: I did Cillabub for the 4th National. Cillabub for the 4th National Tour. And Natasha and I were kittens together.

[5:29] Natasha Davison: Okay. Okay. And so was Cillabub at all ever thinking about being the Jellicle choice or just way too young?

[5:35] Holly Cruz: Oh, my God. She was the youngest of the tribe. Not ready at all?

[5:39] Natasha Davison: No. She was just coming out. Trying to figure out what's going on.

[5:44] Holly Cruz: Did you have a chance to see the Jellicle Ball yet?

[5:44] Natasha Davison: I saw the Jellicle Ball at the Perlman Center two years ago. We had the privilege of seeing the final dress. I saw it last week in previews and I saw it last night and I still cannot get enough of it. I think it is the most joyous, most unbelievable experience that you can possibly have right now.

[6:01] Holly Cruz: Amazing. So you have some ballroom experience?

[6:08] Natasha Davison: I love that culture so much because I did, I grew up or had my young adult life in the 90s. And so I was very familiar with Paris is Burning. And also that time growing up, AIDS was very prevalent. And so I was a member of Act Up. I had that Keith Haring shirt. So that whole culture centered around that, you know, that whole pandemic. So it was very close to my heart at that time. And just that sort of release and that sort of freedom through movement and just that whole culture, like coming into play with that. It was just extraordinary then. And I think it's so important now to bring that back.

[6:45] Holly Cruz: Yeah. Amazing. Which house would you be in if you were in one of the houses from the show?

[6:51] Natasha Davison: Well, I do love the Arturo Leon. I did see his ball and I know he's the house of Miyagi.

[6:56] Holly Cruz: Yeah. So I'm full on house of Miyagi with Arturo.

[6:56] Natasha Davison: Okay. What about with the Cats houses, the Dots, Macavity?

[7:02] Holly Cruz: Oh, I had to go with Macavity.

[7:02] Natasha Davison: You're gonna be house Macavity.

[7:08] Holly Cruz: Oh, hello. Okay. Okay. Okay. That purse. Awesome.

[7:08] Natasha Davison: Have you seen the Jellicle Ball yet? Are you going tonight?

[7:15] Holly Cruz: We went last night.

[7:15] Natasha Davison: What'd you think?

[7:15] Holly Cruz: Oh, it was so much fun. Yeah. The energy and the fans. And I don't mean just the people in the audience, but the fans. I have to get the flick. Did you get your fan?

[7:25] Natasha Davison: I didn't have a fan. I didn't get that memo.

[7:31] Holly Cruz: Okay. So I didn't bring one.

[7:31] Natasha Davison: Yeah. What'd you think about this Rumple teaser and Mungojerri?

[7:36] Holly Cruz: Oh, so much fun because they have a New Jersey accent because they're from New Jersey. They're from Victoria Grove, New Jersey.

[7:41] Natasha Davison: Yes. Right. Is there a Victoria Grove, New Jersey?

[7:41] Holly Cruz: I don't know if it's real or not, but this says it in the playbill that they're from Victoria Grove.

[7:50] Natasha Davison: Yeah.

[7:50] Holly Cruz: Which I thought was really funny. I heard it in the song and I said, okay, so they still live in Victoria Grove, but they're from New Jersey. So I have to look that one up.

[8:00] Natasha Davison: Okay.

[8:00] Holly Cruz: And so this whole podcast is around me not believing Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice.

[8:04] Natasha Davison: Yes. So I want to hear who's your Jellicle choice and why?

[8:08] Holly Cruz: Well, I do think Grizabella is the choice.

[8:08] Natasha Davison: You do think, okay.

[8:11] Holly Cruz: I do because she's the outcast, right? She was a big deal and in her day she would have been a part of the tribe, right? And then had a bad time and then just went downhill and was ousted by the group. Now we don't know why.

[8:31] Natasha Davison: Yeah.

[8:31] Holly Cruz: And as I said, I think in our interview a while ago, I was a kitten, so I wouldn't have known why and I probably wouldn't have cared.

[8:41] Natasha Davison: Rumpelstiltskin is not ready.

[8:41] Holly Cruz: No. She's just following whatever the adult cats do, mimicking them.

[8:46] Natasha Davison: Yeah. So since we've talked, have you had further discussions about it, thought about it, talked to the other wonderful people in this room about it?

[8:55] Holly Cruz: No, because it was top secret.

[8:55] Natasha Davison: Top secret.

[8:55] Holly Cruz: Yeah. Top secret.

[8:55] Natasha Davison: Yeah. My show is about the Jellicle choice and you can see the wrong Jellicle choice. So let's start there. I want to hear who your Jellicle choice is and why.

[9:09] Joyce Chittick: Oh goodness. My Jellicle choice in life. She's actually around here somewhere. It's following.

[9:15] Natasha Davison: No, okay. In the show. In the show. If you're picking your Jellicle choice, who are you going to pick?

[9:21] Joyce Chittick: That's a tough one. It is because a choice for what? That's the question. That's the million dollar question right there.

[9:36] Natasha Davison: Because the cat that's chosen knows what's up there.

[9:36] Joyce Chittick: Yeah. So they know the secret, whatever the secret is.

[9:43] Natasha Davison: Yeah, true. And I mean, for me, I get moody and so it depends on what kind of mood I'm in as to who I'm going to choose.

[9:50] Joyce Chittick: Every night, different choice?

[9:52] Natasha Davison: Yeah, probably.

[9:52] Joyce Chittick: Okay. Okay. What's your mood today? If you're picking right now?

[9:57] Natasha Davison: Well, right now, I'd probably say Mistoffelees.

[9:57] Joyce Chittick: Mistoffelees. Perfect.

[10:00] Natasha Davison: Little connection to them.

[10:00] Joyce Chittick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Even though we are completely different.

[10:04] Natasha Davison: You bring back Old Deuteronomy. I mean, without you, the show doesn't go on.

[10:08] Joyce Chittick: It is true. Right. That would be the end.

[10:08] Natasha Davison: Yeah, yeah. It would be the end.

[10:12] Joyce Chittick: Final. The end. He's gone. Sorry.

[10:15] Natasha Davison: Okay, we're done.

[10:15] Jacob Brent: And Fibbitt. How about for you?

[10:20] Joyce Chittick: That is a really tough question. I mean, the contenders or the, I mean, Gus brings it so much.

[10:28] Natasha Davison: Yeah.

[10:28] Joyce Chittick: And, oh gosh. I mean, just watching that performance in the production that we did and the production of last night, it was just so beautiful to see someone who experienced so much and then sharing that knowledge with the younger coming up, passing the mantle almost. So, I think, I would like to have Gus have a chance.

[10:53] Natasha Davison: Team Gus.

[10:55] Joyce Chittick: Team Gus every once in a while. I mean, Grizabella. Absolutely love.

[11:00] Natasha Davison: I'm team Gus, too.

[11:01] Joyce Chittick: Are you really?

[11:01] Natasha Davison: Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah. So, I think that's-

[11:04] Joyce Chittick: So, you saw last night, you saw the show.

[11:06] Natasha Davison: You did, yeah.

[11:06] Joyce Chittick: What did you think of the Jellicle Ball and the difference, especially someone who's done Cats for so long and seeing a reimagined production?

[11:11] Natasha Davison: Fine. Fine. I loved it. I think it was so, I mean, of course, the physicality of it when we did it was outrageous and incredible, especially being a young dancer. But I think it was a perfect vehicle for Ballroom. I mean, just bringing the flair, the style, the personality. Everyone was unique and you just, you be you. And you bring that joy, style, the flair. And I just think the musical takes you on this journey, or the music of the Ball, rather, takes you on this journey.

[11:52] Natasha Davison: And it was phenomenal. Yeah. It was phenomenal. Amazing. There was simplicity about it that was beautiful and very concise. Could you do one of those death drops or whatever?

[12:03] Leslie Trayer: Probably, but I wouldn't be able to get up. Yeah, that's me. Exactly. I would never get back up.

[12:09] Natasha Davison: And what about, did you see it last night too?

[12:09] Leslie Trayer: Yes, I did. And what were your thoughts?

[12:12] Natasha Davison: I loved it. I've seen it a couple of times. Okay. We saw it downtown and my wife and I saw it earlier during the previews also. Amazing. And we love it. I mean, it's reimagined and it's nice to see something that's completely different taking this familiar material and just doing something completely different and wonderful with it.

[12:38] Leslie Trayer: Awesome. Because it's hard to redo a show.

[12:39] Natasha Davison: Yeah. Right. Oh, definitely. And so, you know, coming up with a whole new concept and making it completely different is fantastic.

[12:44] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. Even though there's, you know, there's a lot of similarities because of the music and what the songs say as a story, you know, you're dealing kind of with the same subject.

[12:58] Natasha Davison: Yeah. That's what I've said. It's a different context. Completely the same and completely different at the same time. Right. It's cats and not cats. They're both beautiful.

[13:10] Leslie Trayer: That's great. Welcome back. I guess we'll start with, have you seen the Joe Cabal yet?

[13:15] Natasha Davison: We saw it last night.

[13:15] Leslie Trayer: Okay. What'd you think?

[13:20] Natasha Davison: Off the rails. It was amazing. Amazing. So much fun.

[13:20] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. Spectacular. I think it's a show that is, it came at the perfect time and I think everyone needs to see it and I think everyone will love it.

[13:35] Natasha Davison: Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was fabulous. The dancing was very different from what we did.

[13:43] Leslie Trayer: And I go, no, that's not the way it goes.

[13:44] Natasha Davison: Oh yeah, but it's a different show.

[13:49] Leslie Trayer: Well, that's, I guess, coming from knowing cats so well, but it is a little different, but it's also almost exactly the same.

[13:53] Natasha Davison: So is it besides the choreography, is there anything else that you kind of liked about the changes or any differences?

[14:00] Leslie Trayer: You can, yes. And I loved, yes. What I liked too is there's very, the very body positivity. I loved that about that.

[14:13] Natasha Davison: Yeah. And I love that trend now.

[14:14] Leslie Trayer: Yes. Yeah. It's helped the Bustopher Jones argument. Bustopher Jones gets a lot of criticism in the cats lore, but this Bustopher Jones is amazing.

[14:28] Natasha Davison: Yes. Loved, loved, loved that.

[14:29] Leslie Trayer: Awesome. I bet. I bet you too. And Gus still didn't get the prize.

[14:39] Natasha Davison: No. Not to spoil the ending or anything.

[14:39] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. It's been around for like 40 something years. I think we're all right. Just had a hope that Gus would have pulled it out at the end on this new iteration.

[14:51] Natasha Davison: Do you think this Gus is ready to go?

[14:51] Leslie Trayer: I don't think Junior's ready to go, that performer. Oh my gosh. He was phenomenal.

[14:56] Natasha Davison: Yeah. Brought a tear to my eye and brought laughter in certain aspects of his story that didn't come through when I was doing it, for example.

[15:09] Leslie Trayer: He's hysterical and heartbreaking and just a wonderful character.

[15:09] Natasha Davison: Yeah. Okay. So who's your joyful choice in this production?

[15:25] Leslie Trayer: Cillabub.

[15:25] Natasha Davison: Cillabub. Yeah. All right. I like that answer. I thought Cillabub was wonderful.

[15:30] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. And just brought pathos and openness to the production that it was hinted at in the previous iterations of Cats, but I thought he did a tremendous job.

[15:43] Natasha Davison: Yeah. Okay. What about you two? Do you have a different joyful choice from this production?

[15:51] Leslie Trayer: I don't know if Cillabub is my choice, but I will say I think Cillabub was my favorite part of the show. I think that the way that her story is very clear and so loving, and I feel like it makes Grizabella's story even more heartbreaking and poignant.

[16:14] Natasha Davison: And also the performer who portrayed Cillabub was so joyful and naive, but curious and perfect.

[16:23] Leslie Trayer: And even the outfit that they had her in, I just love it. Obviously, she was dressed up for the ball. Her ball outfit didn't look like the other people's, the other Cats' outfits, but she was still dressed up.

[16:43] Natasha Davison: And then as the show went on, this is a spoiler, but I just loved everything about Cillabub so much, but my choice is still Grizabella.

[16:57] Leslie Trayer: Still Grizabella. Okay. What about you?

[16:57] Natasha Davison: Mine too.

[17:01] Leslie Trayer: Still Grizabella?

[17:01] Natasha Davison: It is.

[17:02] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. Okay. So who did you play?

[17:01] Natasha Davison: I played, over the years, I did the show a total of five years. And when I came into the company, first I was in the booth, so one of those fabulous singers there. And then I moved into the role of Gumby Cat for a long time on our tour together. And toward the end of the tour, and I was also a Jelly Lorem understudy. And then David Taylor asked me to go to Hamburg and do Jelly Lorem. And so I did that for about a year there. And then I did Grizabella for six months. So I did all the old broads.

[17:33] Leslie Trayer: So you had to learn in Germany?

[17:34] Natasha Davison: I did. I did. And it was great. Our production was in Hamburg, but there was also a production in Vienna at the time. Total different translation, but it was really great to see the difference between the two.

[17:48] Leslie Trayer: Different translations.

[17:49] Natasha Davison: Very different.

[17:49] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. And they thought it was French. It was interesting. I guess my German wasn't quite hard enough. My glottals weren't hard enough. So I would come to the stage door and they'd talk to me in French. Luckily, I knew French, so that was helpful.

[18:00] Natasha Davison: Okay. So you did Jenny and Idas, and then you did Jelly Lorem and Grizabella.

[18:07] Leslie Trayer: Okay. Was Grizabella also in German?

[18:14] Natasha Davison: It was.

[18:15] Leslie Trayer: Oh, wow.

[18:16] Natasha Davison: Yeah. All right. So could you make an argument for all three of them on why they should be the Jellicle choice? When you were Jenny and Jelly, were you going like, hey, it's my turn?

[18:24] Leslie Trayer: Well, Jenny, not so much. Okay. Not ready. Jelly Lorem, though, I feel like she was the supporter of a lot of the characters, but also her care of Gus, the theater cat, was incredible.

[18:40] Natasha Davison: And the fact that she and Gus both got to fulfill their fantasy, which is not actually in this production, this current production.

[18:46] Leslie Trayer: No. It's not been in a lot of productions recently.

[18:50] Natasha Davison: I was going to say, and it got pulled out pretty quickly.

[18:50] Leslie Trayer: Well, because first of all, it was expensive to produce that particular set. A giant boat, four pirates, parrots on the shoulder, you know, the whole thing.

[18:58] Natasha Davison: So I've never seen that in any production.

[19:04] Leslie Trayer: Really? Because I only saw cats from 2016 forward. The costumes were the most fabulous part about it. Gretel Bond was amazing.

[19:08] Natasha Davison: Some of them will do Peaks and Policles at that point instead.

[19:12] Leslie Trayer: Well, no. Peaks and Policles was one of those other numbers.

[19:12] Natasha Davison: No, I know. But some of them will now put that in Gus's part. They'll put that in. If they have a big ensemble, they'll put it on, because it's great for the ensemble. And they still get to be dancing cockroaches for Jenny and Eda, for Gumby Cat. So that's cool.

[19:24] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. Okay. So this whole podcast is that I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So you got to play Grizabella, but you also, as Jelly, you probably wanted Gus to go. So who's your Jellicle choice?

[19:38] Natasha Davison: I really did want Gus to go.

[19:39] Leslie Trayer: Okay. So you're team Gus?

[19:40] Natasha Davison: Yeah, I'm team Gus. Yeah, I guess so.

[19:43] Leslie Trayer: I mean, I feel like Griz, I think that she deserved it to some extent in the end. My argument is not that Grizabella doesn't deserve her redemption.

[19:52] Natasha Davison: Right. It's that she deserves a year with her family. So I want her to be accepted back, spend a year with the family.

[20:01] Leslie Trayer: Before it would happen.

[20:02] Natasha Davison: Yeah. And then she can go next year.

[20:01] Leslie Trayer: I got that. Well, she does have to make some reparations. You know, she was kind of a needle bitch. So that's a problem. But you know, she's trying. She's got a whole year to make it up to her family. We all make mistakes. Good people make bad choices. She'll make it up to her family. It'll be time to go.

[20:17] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. Time to go.

[20:22] Natasha Davison: There you go. Next year.

[20:22] Leslie Trayer: Gus is this year. I love that.

[20:22] Natasha Davison: Okay. I'm slowly convincing everybody in this room.

[20:26] Leslie Trayer: All right. I like that. Have you seen the Jellicle Ball yet?

[20:26] Natasha Davison: I have. I got to see it last night, final preview. It was brilliant. It's an incredible reimagining of the show. There are a lot of things that are very different, but I feel like it's something that's so necessary in our world climate right now. It's such a support of the LGBT community.

[20:41] Leslie Trayer: And we just need to see that joy and what they do.

[20:50] Natasha Davison: I mean, generally, my dear friend, General and I have, you know, done that dancing before, but that dancing is very different.

[20:56] Leslie Trayer: I have a couple students. I also teach in a college and a couple of my students are involved in ballroom in Texas. And when I showed them the promo for the show, they were like, Oh my God, Miss Linda, we have to go see it. I said, yes, you do.

[21:14] Natasha Davison: So I brought them fans because fans are a big part of ballroom. And we saw many, many fanning and flipping the fans. You know, last night in the show, amazing talent and incredible cast of just incredible young performers. And I'm so happy for them. I'm proud of them.

[21:37] Leslie Trayer: And I just hope it goes forward, you know, because we need some redemption from the movie of cats.

[21:41] Natasha Davison: So it's, it's really, I think it will be that Andrew Lloyd Webber did not hold back on his comments on CBS about the movie.

[21:50] Leslie Trayer: He did not. And rightfully so.

[21:50] Natasha Davison: Yeah. I almost wore my movie t-shirt today and then I was like, ah, he's supposed to be walking on the red carpet. I don't need my Judy Dench t-shirt in front of him. But yeah, that was a, that was not one of her, her seller roles.

[22:07] Leslie Trayer: Great to have you back on the show. Have you had more discussions since we chatted about the job with choice? I know I asked questions that you weren't thinking about.

[22:18] Natasha Davison: I had never heard of your choice. And so I asked my friends and they said, that kind of makes sense.

[22:25] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. So people agree with you. Even people here today, I was asking them.

[22:37] Natasha Davison: Grizabella only has 40% of the votes.

[22:44] Leslie Trayer: Is that true?

[22:44] Natasha Davison: Keep track. 40%. Only 40% of the votes.

[22:44] Leslie Trayer: So what are you most excited for, for tonight?

[22:50] Natasha Davison: I'm actually not going to get to go tonight. I went last night to the preview.

[22:56] Leslie Trayer: What'd you think?

[22:56] Natasha Davison: I loved it. I mean, it was, it was fun. It was different, but it was, the music was still the same. Still cats. I mean, but to hear the music go from like Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer to this like rock out ballroom. It was great.

[23:08] Leslie Trayer: Super fun. Super unique.

[23:16] Natasha Davison: Okay. Did that production change your mind on the job with choice at all?

[23:22] Leslie Trayer: A little bit. Yeah. A little bit.

[23:22] Natasha Davison: Yeah. Especially after seeing, well, not just Gus, but even Jimmy.

[23:30] Leslie Trayer: Yeah. You know that.

[23:30] Natasha Davison: Yeah. But I thought, Misophilies.

[23:38] Leslie Trayer: Misophilies?

[23:38] Natasha Davison: Yeah.

[23:39] Leslie Trayer: Okay. I would've seen Misophilies. Misophilies has the most votes from that production when we did the stuff down here.

[24:43] Natasha Davison: Um, that's not funny. I think he was just like, um, one of the kittens that just really was always trying to, um, I guess, I don't know, show off is the right word, but you know, be where all the action was.

[25:00] Holly Cruz: A little mischievous.

[25:01] Natasha Davison: That's why you understudy him.

[25:02] Holly Cruz: That's why you understudy him as often as.

[25:07] Natasha Davison: So this whole podcast centers around, I don't think Grizabella being the right Jellicle choice. So I want to know who's your Jellicle choice and why.

[25:14] Holly Cruz: Wow. And you can say Grizabella, but I'll argue with you if you do.

[25:17] Natasha Davison: Wow. That's a trick question for me. Um, I don't know. Maybe, I mean, I guess it would be kind of too obvious to say like someone like Old Deuteronomy, cause he was the oldest, um, to go to the Heaviside Lair.

[25:36] Holly Cruz: Wow.

[25:38] Natasha Davison: I kind of feel like everybody.

[25:43] Holly Cruz: What's Pounceville's reason? Is he ready to go or no?

[25:48] Natasha Davison: No, he's, you know, that's true. He wasn't really, he wasn't ready to, too young, too much to live for. But I guess I feel like, um, maybe I think of the Heaviside Lair as being more like sort of a state of mind as opposed to like, you know, the final resting place to be a higher registry.

[26:10] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[26:11] Natasha Davison: Okay. You know, the experience of the tribe and yeah, I like that.

[26:15] Holly Cruz: We're all going together.

[26:16] Natasha Davison: Just one, I'll drink the Kool-Aid together at the same time.

[26:19] Holly Cruz: Exactly.

[26:21] Natasha Davison: So when was your first production of Cats?

[26:24] Holly Cruz: My first production of Cats was January 1st of 1991.

[26:28] Natasha Davison: Okay.

[26:29] Holly Cruz: The national tour, um, bus and truck four, which a lot of these people did.

[26:33] Natasha Davison: Yes.

[26:33] Holly Cruz: And, um, I was in high school.

[26:35] Natasha Davison: High school.

[26:36] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[26:37] Natasha Davison: Wow.

[26:38] Holly Cruz: I finished high school on the road by correspondence. There was no internet. So, you know, it was all, I had to write it down, all my work and FedEx it to my teachers.

[26:47] Natasha Davison: Okay. Who were you playing at the time?

[26:48] Holly Cruz: At the time I was a kitten swing.

[26:50] Natasha Davison: Kitten swing.

[26:50] Holly Cruz: So I covered Rumpelteaser, Victoria and Cillabub.

[26:54] Natasha Davison: All right. And then you said you made your Broadway debut in Cats.

[26:57] Holly Cruz: Yep. Then they moved me to the Broadway company as Cillabub.

[27:00] Natasha Davison: As Cillabub. Amazing.

[27:01] Holly Cruz: Okay. So this show, whole show is about the geographical choice.

[27:05] Natasha Davison: Yes.

[27:06] Holly Cruz: So if you could choose any cat to go to the Heaviside Lair, who would you choose and why?

[27:11] Natasha Davison: Wow. I hadn't anticipated this.

[27:14] Holly Cruz: Oh, I'm getting a prompt over here that he should be chosen.

[27:17] Natasha Davison: Okay. Steve Watkins over there who covered Old Deuteronomy and Gus.

[27:22] Holly Cruz: Old Deuteronomy's got to go sometime.

[27:23] Natasha Davison: He's, but does he? Or is he, does he live forever?

[27:27] Holly Cruz: Like he's timeless.

[27:28] Natasha Davison: I mean, he should be the one.

[27:31] Holly Cruz: Old Deuteronomy's your choice.

[27:32] Natasha Davison: Old Deuteronomy.

[27:33] Holly Cruz: Okay. I mean, I think he's lived enough cat lives. Don't, wouldn't you say?

[27:38] Natasha Davison: It's his time.

[27:39] Holly Cruz: Yeah. But then who's going to be the one to choose if he's gone?

[27:42] Natasha Davison: Monkistrap.

[27:43] Holly Cruz: Monkistrap.

[27:43] Natasha Davison: He's being groomed to take over.

[27:44] Holly Cruz: He's being groomed.

[27:45] Natasha Davison: Okay. So you know a lot more than I do. You really delve deep into the, you know, the cat's world.

[27:50] Holly Cruz: 200 plus episodes, 250 plus episodes of different people talking to the story. You know it inside and out.

[27:53] Natasha Davison: I know a lot of it.

[27:55] Holly Cruz: Yeah. I mean, I can do the Jellicle Ball for you.

[27:57] Natasha Davison: I can't do that.

[27:59] Holly Cruz: I can't sing it. I can't dance it, but I can tell you about the characters and the story.

[28:02] Natasha Davison: I can't forget that Jellicle Ball.

[28:04] Holly Cruz: I know it.

[28:04] Natasha Davison: You still do it.

[28:04] Holly Cruz: I do it in my sleep.

[28:05] Natasha Davison: I can do it in my sleep. And one of the things that happens sometimes in my sleep, I think a lot of us cats have had this sort of reoccurring dream slash nightmare is in the beginning, the green eyes, you know, when you go through the audience and when you're on tour, it was literally like spinal tap because you know, when they can't find their way to the stage, like that's what it was like for us in a lot of theaters. It was a maze, even though they'd have all these signs of, you know, stage this way with arrows, you would get so confused and the overture is playing. You've already been in the audience doing your green eyes and you can't find the stage and your entrance is coming up.

[28:39] Holly Cruz: Awesome.

[28:39] Natasha Davison: So yeah, so it's a reoccurring, you know, stress dream.

[28:46] Natasha Davison: I went to the Heaviside Lair.

[28:47] Holly Cruz: I went to the Heaviside.

[28:48] Holly Cruz: Green eyes.

[28:48] Natasha Davison: So my whole show is about how I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice.

[28:53] Holly Cruz: So how, I don't think she's the right Jellicle choice.

[28:57] Natasha Davison: She sure is. Are you kidding me? I want Grizabella to have a year with the family after the redemption. I want you to have time with your family.

[29:05] Holly Cruz: Okay. I hear that. Spend time with family, hang out, you know, they welcomed you back.

[29:10] Natasha Davison: They did welcome me back.

[29:11] Holly Cruz: And then you immediately go to the Heaviside Lair.

[29:13] Natasha Davison: But up there I could sprinkle fairy dust down on everybody.

[29:17] Holly Cruz: So the first time I went to the Heaviside Lair, right, this is probably kind of crazy. I'm afraid of heights.

[29:23] Natasha Davison: That's tough to go for.

[29:26] Holly Cruz: So the first time every night, well, and when I first, so I joined the show in Atlanta and I got to see that they were going up really high. And I thought I'm going to have to get my notice and I haven't even started the show yet. That's how scared I was.

[29:41] Natasha Davison: But what was so amazing.

[29:43] Holly Cruz: The first time we did it, the stage hand held my hand. He goes, I'm going to have you don't worry. I have you.

[29:48] Natasha Davison: I have you because you're up on the catwalk.

[29:51] Holly Cruz: Yeah. It's scary.

[29:52] Natasha Davison: Are you, you're like hooked in though?

[29:55] Holly Cruz: Pardon me?

[29:55] Natasha Davison: Are you hooked in?

[29:57] Holly Cruz: No, no. Just, just, just walk.

[29:59] Natasha Davison: You just walk from that tire to a very tiny catwalk and he's holding my hand the whole time.

[30:07] Holly Cruz: And if he didn't, if he said, don't be scared, I would have hated him because of course you're scared. You could die.

[30:14] Natasha Davison: I mean, if you fell, the Heaviside Lair or not, right.

[30:18] Holly Cruz: I wouldn't just be, but, um, I hear what you're saying.

[30:22] Natasha Davison: It would be nice if she hung out with the cat.

[30:24] Holly Cruz: Send Gus, you go next year.

[30:26] Natasha Davison: It would be, no, it'd be nice. But you know, that's my argument.

[30:30] Holly Cruz: I love you for that.

[30:32] Natasha Davison: Yeah. Just hang out with the cats, the kids.

[30:34] Holly Cruz: Right. Have you seen the, did you get to see the dope at all yet?

[30:37] Natasha Davison: I'm going to see it.

[30:37] Holly Cruz: You're seeing tonight.

[30:38] Natasha Davison: Yeah.

[30:38] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[30:38] Natasha Davison: What are you looking forward to?

[30:40] Holly Cruz: Everything.

[30:41] Natasha Davison: All of it.

[30:41] Holly Cruz: Everything. I can't wait.

[30:42] Natasha Davison: It's just everybody, you know, the people who went last night, they're just over the moon for it.

[30:47] Holly Cruz: And these are my cast members.

[30:49] Natasha Davison: So, you know, I'm so excited.

[30:52] Holly Cruz: And I love Natasha, of course.

[30:54] Natasha Davison: She's and her daughter.

[30:56] Holly Cruz: Yeah. Do you know Claire?

[30:57] Natasha Davison: Do you know Claire?

[30:57] Holly Cruz: No, I don't.

[30:58] Natasha Davison: Oh, well, her daughter was in one of my musicals. I write music.

[31:00] Holly Cruz: So, um, but I can't wait.

[31:03] Natasha Davison: I can't. I'm very excited.

[31:04] Holly Cruz: I'm very happy.

[31:05] Natasha Davison: I'm excited for you to hear. I want to see if you still think this Grizabella is the right choice.

[31:08] Holly Cruz: Oh, she's got big shoes.

[31:10] Natasha Davison: No, I'm kidding.

[31:12] Holly Cruz: I'm kidding.

[31:13] Natasha Davison: No, no. It's such a, it was such an honor to play that role.

[31:16] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[31:17] Natasha Davison: So I couldn't believe it.

[31:19] Holly Cruz: I'm going to ask you my Grizabella question.

[31:20] Natasha Davison: Okay.

[31:21] Holly Cruz: Uh oh. When Grizabella leaves the tribe, where does she go?

[31:26] Natasha Davison: Oh, you mean before?

[31:27] Holly Cruz: Before, before she comes back.

[31:28] Natasha Davison: Well, she goes into this hiding place where she's meditating and trying to figure out what she did wrong because everybody rejected her and now she's, you know, she goes into this place of like, okay, maybe I could have done it better.

[31:42] Holly Cruz: And, you know, she goes into this place of self-examination.

[31:45] Natasha Davison: She's, you know, she's trying to figure out, is that a good answer?

[31:51] Holly Cruz: It's more wholesome than meditating is more wholesome than I usually get as an answer for this.

[31:54] Natasha Davison: Well, I didn't do any heavy drugs.

[31:58] Holly Cruz: Usually it's a much darker backstory before she comes back.

[32:01] Natasha Davison: She could have done that.

[32:03] Holly Cruz: She probably did it for a little bit.

[32:05] Natasha Davison: A little bit.

[32:05] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[32:06] Natasha Davison: She probably did it.

[32:07] Holly Cruz: She felt sorry.

[32:07] Natasha Davison: When the show starts, you're in the meditation side.

[32:09] Holly Cruz: Yeah, I'm already in that place.

[32:10] Natasha Davison: But she probably felt sorry for herself for a little bit and being rejected is horrifying, you know, you don't.

[32:15] Holly Cruz: That's why you get the redemption arc.

[32:18] Natasha Davison: Yeah. And what I loved.

[32:19] Holly Cruz: And then you have to leave right away.

[32:20] Natasha Davison: I know, but I loved it that I'm going through the line and everybody's touching me and like giving me and like, I feel accepted finally.

[32:28] Holly Cruz: And it's just, I could use that.

[32:29] Natasha Davison: I always, every, every night, my, you know, as an actor, you have to substitute sometimes, you know, I don't even know if I had to substitute.

[32:38] Holly Cruz: It's a really amazing, powerful thing.

[32:39] Natasha Davison: If you see people accepting you.

[32:41] Holly Cruz: And singing that song has to get you all the emotion.

[32:44] Natasha Davison: The first time I sang it, I still sing it. I do, I do cabaret shows.

[32:48] Holly Cruz: And, um, I just did a show called Everything's Coming Up Rosy and it's all my Broadway shows that I've done and all I've did Mama Rose and all those shows.

[32:56] Natasha Davison: And I always do Grizabella and you know what? Everybody in the audience says, wow, that still works.

[33:05] Holly Cruz: It's a great song.

[33:06] Natasha Davison: It's a great song.

[33:06] Holly Cruz: It's a great song and everybody can relate to it.

[33:08] Natasha Davison: Yep. Everybody wants to feel like they get a second chance, you know?

[33:12] Holly Cruz: Amen.

[33:13] Natasha Davison: Look at this. This is like, you've stepped up my friend official.

[33:16] Holly Cruz: This is good.

[33:17] Natasha Davison: Official.

[33:19] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[33:19] Natasha Davison: All right. So this is now your third time talking because you've been on the show twice.

[33:23] Holly Cruz: I love, I love it.

[33:24] Natasha Davison: Yeah. And I'll be on more times.

[33:27] Holly Cruz: So I still want to do the reunion.

[33:29] Natasha Davison: We've got to do the reunion.

[33:30] Holly Cruz: I want to do the reunion really badly.

[33:32] Natasha Davison: I mean, unfortunately we, you know, Ken's no longer with us, but he's there with in spirit for sure.

[33:38] Holly Cruz: I really thought Ken was going to be, uh, Andre's, uh,

[33:45] Natasha Davison: Okay. So we've already seen the downtown production.

[33:48] Holly Cruz: Yes.

[33:48] Natasha Davison: Have you seen it in the transfer?

[33:50] Holly Cruz: Yeah, I saw it last night and I'm going tonight.

[33:52] Natasha Davison: You're going to, okay.

[33:53] Holly Cruz: So I'm excited.

[33:54] Natasha Davison: What did you think about the differences between the two?

[33:57] Holly Cruz: Um, I, it's basically the same, but it's just like a little more, there's some parts that are clearer. I think they just like, we're able to judge them, fix some things that I think really, really helps the audience.

[34:09] Natasha Davison: Yeah.

[34:09] Holly Cruz: I really liked the, um, Macavity updates.

[34:13] Natasha Davison: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[34:14] Holly Cruz: That was really, that was really cool.

[34:16] Natasha Davison: Yeah.

[34:17] Holly Cruz: So since we've last talked, how many times have you consulted on different shows for Cats?

[34:21] Natasha Davison: Um, a few, a few, a few.

[34:26] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[34:26] Natasha Davison: Yeah.

[34:27] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[34:27] Natasha Davison: It's like two or three.

[34:29] Holly Cruz: Okay.

[34:30] Natasha Davison: Two or three.

[34:31] Holly Cruz: Has there been any like changes in the way you now perceive or think about it? Now seeing the Jungle Ball or just doing it and how you go in and tell the story to the new kittens, you know, I don't, I don't, because I try to keep to what does like the, the lore of the original, right? And like, I feel like that's sort of my duty to like continue carrying that on and passing that on.

[34:53] Holly Cruz: Yeah.

[34:53] Natasha Davison: Okay. And so you've answered a couple of times now, but who's your Jellicle choice and why?

[34:58] Holly Cruz: Oh, wow. I think it's Mustafa.

[35:04] Natasha Davison: No, no, I don't. I don't think he gets picked, but, um, you know, it's, I know.

[35:11] Holly Cruz: I know he does get a lot of votes.

[35:13] Natasha Davison: Yep. I'm going to stick with Gus.

[35:16] Holly Cruz: Yes.

[35:16] Natasha Davison: Gus, Gus, Gus should be picked.

[35:19] Holly Cruz: And then we, but then we do pick, uh, Grizabella.

[35:22] Natasha Davison: Right.

[35:22] Holly Cruz: Okay.

[35:23] Natasha Davison: Thanks for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died. The podcast breakdown, the cat's atrophy to follow along. Can you subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or any other spots? Follow us on social media at The Wrong Cat Died or check our website, thewrongcatdied.com.